[Biofuel] Any other lister in Malaysia?
In line with what Josh just asked, is there anyone on this list from Malaysia? ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Rational Energy
I do not remember seeing this in our forum. I found this project magnificent. If you have been acquainted with this pls disregard this email. Very best for all of us http://www.solarmissiontechnologies.com/SolarTower%20Animation%202004.wmv Chico ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Vinegar in WVO
Good day to all, I have anew source of WVO. It is very clear and light in color. I did a titration w/o drying it. I was surprised to find that it required 3.2ml of .1% lyeto neutralize each ml of oil. We heateda sampleof the oil and some water fell out.The dry oil titrated at 2.6ml of the lye solution. I shake-washed some of the oil in water and then dried the oil titration required only2.3ml of the lye solution.The wash water was ever so slightly acid. There seems to be water soluble acid(s) in this oil. While heating the oil, a friend commented on the smell. My wife came home and asked if we wereusing vinegar. Here's the questions: 1. Do restaurants either fry foods with vinegar in/on them? Do acids from frying cheeses (mozarella sticks) leach into the oil?Do restaurants clean their grills/friers w. vinegar? 2. Am I correct in assuming that these mysterious water-soluble acidswill be neutralized by the lye and will not contribute to soap formation? Thanks for listening, Tom ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Vinegar in WVO
What's on the menu for the restuarant? Typical american fried stuff like fries wouldn't have vinegar, but I bet there could be other foods that do. On 2/17/06, Thomas Kelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Good day to all, I have a new source of WVO. It is very clear and light in color. I did a titration w/o drying it. I was surprised to find that it required 3.2ml of .1% lye to neutralize each ml of oil. We heated a sample of the oil and some water fell out. The dry oil titrated at 2.6ml of the lye solution. I shake-washed some of the oil in water and then dried the oil titration required only 2.3ml of the lye solution. The wash water was ever so slightly acid. There seems to be water soluble acid(s) in this oil. While heating the oil, a friend commented on the smell. My wife came home and asked if we were using vinegar. Here's the questions: 1. Do restaurants either fry foods with vinegar in/on them? Do acids from frying cheeses (mozarella sticks) leach into the oil? Do restaurants clean their grills/friers w. vinegar? 2. Am I correct in assuming that these mysterious water-soluble acids will be neutralized by the lye and will not contribute to soap formation? Thanks for listening, Tom ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Plug pulled on renewable energy gurus
Great. Way to go to wean us off oil Bush... He's coming to visit NREL on tuesday. Wonder how that meeting will go? On 2/16/06, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Also this: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 Subject: [biofuels-biz] End of US Biodiesel Research Program The top researcher from the National Renewable Energy Laboratory, Dr. Shaine Tyson, reports that the entire biodiesel research program has been terminated by the Bush administration. The staff for this research program has been notified of termination or transfer. Dr Tyson writes: DOE has canceled all biodiesel related research at this time. I will be permanently laid off April 1, if not sooner. I am also in the process of canceling contracts either before we award them or canceling them and pulling the money back to fund other salaries. ...snip... K. Shaine Tyson -- [biofuels-biz] End of US Biodiesel Research Program http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg50984.html Don't forget the PNGV program - this stuff goes back much further than the Bush administration. See eg: Re: [Biofuel] Hybrid Diesel http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg51682.html Best Keith There is something VERY wrong with putting roadblocks to research resources. That scares me. Possibly to impede John Q. Public from getting the goods on self-sufficiency (et al). On 2/16/2006, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hm. As well as this, posted on the same day: Burning down the library - Bush Axing Libraries While Pushing for More Research - EPA Set to Close Library Network and Electronic Catalog http://snipurl.com/mm1v All in the name of sound science I suppose. Strange how fossil-friendly sound science so often turns out to be. Best Keith Yeah. I knew several people who got canned there last week. This week I tried calling my former boss from when I worked there and found he had been deleted from the system. My roommate who works with Carol and John mentioned in the article managed to keep his job for this round, although he is taking a month or two of unpaid furlough. The worst thing is that these people will not have too hard of a time getting new jobs -- the PV industry is exploding here. But NREL will have lost all their experienced people, and next year when (if) the budget goes back up as Bush promised, it will take 10 years to rebuild the research programs and train new people. Zeke On 2/15/06, Michael Redler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Published on 14 Feb 2006 by Denver Post. Archived on 15 Feb 2006. http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_3506521 Plug pulled on renewable energy gurus by Diane Carman The day Carol Tombari got fired plays in her head like a scene from a cheesy espionage thriller. She arrived at work and was told to appear at a mandatory meeting in 20 minutes. It was there that she learned she was being laid off and that she had five hours to pack and vacate the premises. When she returned to her desk, her computer had been disabled, her phone service cut. She had to cancel an appearance the next day at a regional mayors' caucus. Her presentation on the importance of energy efficiency to local governments was locked in her computer. She was among the disappeared from the National Renewable Energy Laboratory in Golden, where 31 workers were dismissed seven days after President Bush read the words addicted to oil off the teleprompter and announced yet another Advanced Energy Initiative. It was a week to the day after the State of the Union, Tombari said. The single mother of three with a son in college was given one month's severance pay. I can understand budget cuts. I can understand realigning the mission at NREL. But being treated like a corporate saboteur, that was rough, said Tombari, who has worked in energy policy for more than 25 years. John Thornton, an engineer and 28-year veteran at NREL, is another casualty of the post-State of the Union sweep. He was given until March 31 to get out. You never know with these budgets, said Thornton, who survived an NREL purge during the Reagan administration. Still, the political shenanigans have a crippling impact on research. Projects are abandoned, careers are interrupted, lives are thrown into turmoil. The scientists at NREL have no peer, U.S. Department of Energy spokesman Craig Stevens crowed last week. They also have no job security. Tombari's job was to work with state and local governments to incorporate new technologies into public policies. Before she came to NREL in 1993, she directed the Texas Energy Office for 10 years. I loved my job, she said. Ideally, if I had the money, I would do what
Re: [Biofuel] Vinegar in WVO
down here in tx we fry up a lot of buffalo wings. pre-frozen versions of this probably contain tobasco or some form of pickled pepper to give it a spicy (hot) flavor. also, mcdonalds fries the spicy chicken sandwich which is a prebreaded chicken patty and includes some form of spice for hot flavor, which probably includes vinegar. my guess is that is how the vinegar gets in the oil pre-coated prepared foods. -Mark -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Thomas KellySent: Friday, February 17, 2006 7:57 AMTo: biofuelSubject: [Biofuel] Vinegar in WVO Good day to all, I have anew source of WVO. It is very clear and light in color. I did a titration w/o drying it. I was surprised to find that it required 3.2ml of .1% lyeto neutralize each ml of oil. We heateda sampleof the oil and some water fell out.The dry oil titrated at 2.6ml of the lye solution. I shake-washed some of the oil in water and then dried the oil titration required only2.3ml of the lye solution.The wash water was ever so slightly acid. There seems to be water soluble acid(s) in this oil. While heating the oil, a friend commented on the smell. My wife came home and asked if we wereusing vinegar. Here's the questions: 1. Do restaurants either fry foods with vinegar in/on them? Do acids from frying cheeses (mozarella sticks) leach into the oil?Do restaurants clean their grills/friers w. vinegar? 2. Am I correct in assuming that these mysterious water-soluble acidswill be neutralized by the lye and will not contribute to soap formation? Thanks for listening, Tom ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Any other lister in Malaysia?
Adding on from this, I would like to know if we have any people from Scotland on the list Cheers, Allan In line with what Josh just asked, is there anyone on this list from Malaysia? ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] [solar-ac] new highly efficient solar power technology?
This sounds like great news. However, I was disappointed not to see specific informationabout performanceor expectedcost per Watt for the consumer.Can anyoneprovide additional information?Thanks.MikeDoug Kalmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There's a bit more to the article. The person who posted it ona list couldn't find hardly anything other than this one article.http://www.int.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1click_id=116art_id=vn2006020132138C184427In a scientific breakthrough that has stunned the world, a team of SouthAfrican scientists has developed a revolutionary new, highly efficient solarpower technology that will enable homes to obtain all their electricity fromthe sun.The unique South African-developed solar panels will make it possible forhouses to become completely self-sufficient for energy supplies.The panels are able to generate enough energy to run stoves, geysers,lights, TVs, fridges, computers - in short all the mod-cons of the modernhouse.The new technology should be available in South Africa within a year andthrough a special converter, energy can be fed directly into the wiring ofexisting houses. New powerful storage units will allow energy storage tomeet demands even in winter. The panels are so efficient they can operatethrough a Cape Town winter. while direct sunlight is ideal for high-energygeneration, other daytime light also generates energy via the panels.A team of scientists led by University of Johannesburg (formerly RandAfrikaans University) scientist Professor Vivian Alberts achieved thebreakthrough after 10 years of research. The South African technology hasnow been patented across the world.One of the world leaders in solar energy, German company IFE Solar Systems,has invested more than R500-million in the South African invention and isset to manufacture 500 000 of the panels before the end of the year at a newplant in Germany.Production will start next month and the factory will run 24 hours a day,producing more than 1 000 panels a day to meet expected demand.Another large German solar company is negotiating with the South Africaninventors for rights to the technology, while a South African consortium ofbusinesses are keen to build local factories.The new, highly efficient and cheap alloy solar panel is much more efficientthan the costly old silicone solar panels.International experts have admitted that nothing else comes close to theeffectiveness of the South African invention.The South African solar panels consist of a thin layer of a unique metalalloy that converts light into energy. The photo-responsive alloy canoperate on virtually all flexible surfaces, which means it could in futurefind a host of other applications.Alberts said the new panels are approximately five microns thick (a humanhair is 20 microns thick) while the older silicon panels are 350 micronsthick. the cost of the South African technology is a fraction of the lesseffective silicone solar panels.Archives of solar-ac messages are at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/solar-ac/messages SPONSORED LINKS Inventing Inventing a product Computer science engineering Inventing idea Material science and engineering Materials science and engineering an introduction YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "solar-ac" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Any other lister in Malaysia?
Hi...Im KW.Chong from KL, Malaysia --- Gary L. Green [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In line with what Josh just asked, is there anyone on this list from Malaysia? ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Vinegar in WVO
Hi Tom, Some restaurants will use a vinegar rinse after cleaning their fryer equipment. The intent is to extend the useful oil lifespan by neutralizing any bases (from the soaps) that may remain after cleaning. They should do a final water rise but many do not. This could be the source of your acid. Doug Turner - Original Message - From: Thomas Kelly To: biofuel Sent: Friday, February 17, 2006 8:56 AM Subject: [Biofuel] Vinegar in WVO Good day to all, I have anew source of WVO. It is very clear and light in color. I did a titration w/o drying it. I was surprised to find that it required 3.2ml of .1% lyeto neutralize each ml of oil. We heateda sampleof the oil and some water fell out.The dry oil titrated at 2.6ml of the lye solution. I shake-washed some of the oil in water and then dried the oil titration required only2.3ml of the lye solution.The wash water was ever so slightly acid. There seems to be water soluble acid(s) in this oil. While heating the oil, a friend commented on the smell. My wife came home and asked if we wereusing vinegar. Here's the questions: 1. Do restaurants either fry foods with vinegar in/on them? Do acids from frying cheeses (mozarella sticks) leach into the oil?Do restaurants clean their grills/friers w. vinegar? 2. Am I correct in assuming that these mysterious water-soluble acidswill be neutralized by the lye and will not contribute to soap formation? Thanks for listening, Tom ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] [solar-ac] new highly efficient solar power technology?
Well, while I would like to to find out more about the alloy solar cells, the rest of the marketing is a bit disengenous. Grid tied PV systems that can provide all of a homes power and interface directly with the existing wiring have been around for at least 5 or 10 years, and the PV to provide the power has been around for 25 years. Get with the times people. It's like trying to sell a new model of car, and touting the fact that it has doors and seatbelts and a radio as major new selling points too... duh. On 2/17/06, Michael Redler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This sounds like great news. However, I was disappointed not to see specific informationabout performanceor expectedcost per Watt for the consumer.Can anyoneprovide additional information? Thanks.MikeDoug Kalmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There's a bit more to the article. The person who posted it ona list couldn't find hardly anything other than this one article. http://www.int.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1click_id=116art_id=vn2006020132138C184427 In a scientific breakthrough that has stunned the world, a team of SouthAfrican scientists has developed a revolutionary new, highly efficient solarpower technology that will enable homes to obtain all their electricity fromthe sun.The unique South African-developed solar panels will make it possible forhouses to become completely self-sufficient for energy supplies. The panels are able to generate enough energy to run stoves, geysers,lights, TVs, fridges, computers - in short all the mod-cons of the modernhouse.The new technology should be available in South Africa within a year and through a special converter, energy can be fed directly into the wiring ofexisting houses. New powerful storage units will allow energy storage tomeet demands even in winter. The panels are so efficient they can operate through a Cape Town winter. while direct sunlight is ideal for high-energygeneration, other daytime light also generates energy via the panels.A team of scientists led by University of Johannesburg (formerly Rand Afrikaans University) scientist Professor Vivian Alberts achieved thebreakthrough after 10 years of research. The South African technology hasnow been patented across the world.One of the world leaders in solar energy, German company IFE Solar Systems, has invested more than R500-million in the South African invention and isset to manufacture 500 000 of the panels before the end of the year at a newplant in Germany.Production will start next month and the factory will run 24 hours a day, producing more than 1 000 panels a day to meet expected demand.Another large German solar company is negotiating with the South Africaninventors for rights to the technology, while a South African consortium of businesses are keen to build local factories.The new, highly efficient and cheap alloy solar panel is much more efficientthan the costly old silicone solar panels.International experts have admitted that nothing else comes close to theeffectiveness of the South African invention.The South African solar panels consist of a thin layer of a unique metalalloy that converts light into energy. The photo-responsive alloy canoperate on virtually all flexible surfaces, which means it could in future find a host of other applications.Alberts said the new panels are approximately five microns thick (a humanhair is 20 microns thick) while the older silicon panels are 350 micronsthick. the cost of the South African technology is a fraction of the less effective silicone solar panels.Archives of solar-ac messages are at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/solar-ac/messages SPONSORED LINKS Inventing Inventing a product Computer science engineering Inventing idea Material science and engineering Materials science and engineering an introduction YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group solar-ac on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Vinegar in WVO
Zeke, Mark and Doug, Thanks for your thoughts. The oil comes from a nice restaurant.Some of their appetizersare deep fried and could contribute acid to the oil. I just spoke to one of the kitchen staff. He said theyscrub the fryers w. vinegarand it goes, along w. the oil, into the grease dumpster. I suspect most of the vinegar settles out w. the water. I am interested in the role these water-soluble acids might play in the reaction and the byproductsmade. Since they are not fatty acids, they should not produce soap themselves, but won't lye + vinegar (acetic acid) produce sodium acetate and water? Should I try to neutralize the vinegarbefore dryingthe oil? Should I go to the trouble of washing the oil and allowing it to settle for a few weeks before drying it? It is good oil and there is a lot of it. Washed w. water, settled overnight, then dried, it titrates at 1.9g/L . Thanks again, Tom - Original Message - From: Doug Turner To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, February 17, 2006 11:58 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Vinegar in WVO Hi Tom, Some restaurants will use a vinegar rinse after cleaning their fryer equipment. The intent is to extend the useful oil lifespan by neutralizing any bases (from the soaps) that may remain after cleaning. They should do a final water rise but many do not. This could be the source of your acid. Doug Turner - Original Message - From: Thomas Kelly To: biofuel Sent: Friday, February 17, 2006 8:56 AM Subject: [Biofuel] Vinegar in WVO Good day to all, I have anew source of WVO. It is very clear and light in color. I did a titration w/o drying it. I was surprised to find that it required 3.2ml of .1% lyeto neutralize each ml of oil. We heateda sampleof the oil and some water fell out.The dry oil titrated at 2.6ml of the lye solution. I shake-washed some of the oil in water and then dried the oil titration required only2.3ml of the lye solution.The wash water was ever so slightly acid. There seems to be water soluble acid(s) in this oil. While heating the oil, a friend commented on the smell. My wife came home and asked if we wereusing vinegar. Here's the questions: 1. Do restaurants either fry foods with vinegar in/on them? Do acids from frying cheeses (mozarella sticks) leach into the oil?Do restaurants clean their grills/friers w. vinegar? 2. Am I correct in assuming that these mysterious water-soluble acidswill be neutralized by the lye and will not contribute to soap formation? Thanks for listening, Tom ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] [solar-ac] new highly efficient solar power technology?
My attitude is a little more forgiving. If all they have to offer is what you mentioned earlier, then I could not have repeated your sentiments any better. But first, I want to see the numbers.MikeZeke Yewdall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, while I would like to to find out more about the alloy solar cells, the rest of the marketing is a bit disengenous. Grid tied PV systems that can provide all of a homes power and interface directly with the existing wiring have been around for at least 5 or 10 years, and the PV to provide the power has been around for 25 years. Get with the times people. It's like trying to sell a new model of car, and touting the fact that it has doors and seatbelts and a radio as major new selling points too... duh. On 2/17/06, Michael Redler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This sounds like great news. However, I was disappointed not to see specific informationabout performanceor expectedcost per Watt for the consumer.Can anyoneprovide additional information? Thanks.MikeDoug Kalmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There's a bit more to the article. The person who posted it ona list couldn't find hardly anything other than this one article. http://www.int.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1click_id=116art_id=vn2006020132138C184427 In a scientific breakthrough that has stunned the world, a team of SouthAfrican scientists has developed a revolutionary new, highly efficient solarpower technology that will enable homes to obtain all their electricity fromthe sun.The unique South African-developed solar panels will make it possible forhouses to become completely self-sufficient for energy supplies. The panels are able to generate enough energy to run stoves, geysers,lights, TVs, fridges, computers - in short all the mod-cons of the modernhouse.The new technology should be available in South Africa within a year and through a special converter, energy can be fed directly into the wiring ofexisting houses. New powerful storage units will allow energy storage tomeet demands even in winter. The panels are so efficient they can operate through a Cape Town winter. while direct sunlight is ideal for high-energygeneration, other daytime light also generates energy via the panels.A team of scientists led by University of Johannesburg (formerly Rand Afrikaans University) scientist Professor Vivian Alberts achieved thebreakthrough after 10 years of research. The South African technology hasnow been patented across the world.One of the world leaders in solar energy, German company IFE Solar Systems, has invested more than R500-million in the South African invention and isset to manufacture 500 000 of the panels before the end of the year at a newplant in Germany.Production will start next month and the factory will run 24 hours a day, producing more than 1 000 panels a day to meet expected demand.Another large German solar company is negotiating with the South Africaninventors for rights to the technology, while a South African consortium of businesses are keen to build local factories.The new, highly efficient and cheap alloy solar panel is much more efficientthan the costly old silicone solar panels.International experts have admitted that nothing else comes close to theeffectiveness of the South African invention.The South African solar panels consist of a thin layer of a unique metalalloy that converts light into energy. The photo-responsive alloy canoperate on virtually all flexible surfaces, which means it could in future find a host of other applications.Alberts said the new panels are approximately five microns thick (a humanhair is 20 microns thick) while the older silicon panels are 350 micronsthick. the cost of the South African technology is a fraction of the less effective silicone solar panels.___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] [solar-ac] new highly efficient solar powertechnology?
My attitude is a little more forgiving. If all they have to offer is what you mentioned earlier, then I could not have repeated your sentiments any better. But first, I want to see the numbers. I looked up the cells with Google and one site said the cost of a 50 watt panel was recouped in 2 years, how does that compare with the old type of panel? Chris Wessex Ferret Club www.wessexferretclub.co.uk ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] [solar-ac] new highly efficient solar powertechnology?
Hi Chris, Unfortunately, this is still marketing noise without numbers. What is is comparing? Is it recouped vs. the cost of electricity generated via nuclear, coal, gas, petroleum or a competitor's solar system? How many 50 watt panels do you need... 10, 50, 100, 1000 before you see a two year recoup? Tom Irwin From: Chris lloyd [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 15:49:51 -0300Subject: Re: [Biofuel] [solar-ac] new highly efficient solar powertechnology? My attitude is a little more forgiving. If all they have to offer is what you mentioned earlier, then I could not have repeated your sentiments any better. But first, I want to see the numbers. I looked up the cells with Google and one site said the cost of a 50 watt panel was recouped in 2 years, how does that compare with the old type of panel? Chris Wessex Ferret Club www.wessexferretclub.co.uk ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] [solar-ac] new highly efficient solar powertechnology?
Currently grid tied PV pays back in between 5 years and 60 years, depending on how sunny the climate is, how much electricity costs, and what sort of incentives are in place. In Colorado, with the incentives we have now, it's about 13 years. A 50 watt panel is actually pretty small nowadays. Between 120 and 200 watts is more common. On 2/17/06, Chris lloyd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My attitude is a little more forgiving. If all they have to offer is what you mentioned earlier, then I could not have repeated your sentiments any better. But first, I want to see the numbers. I looked up the cells with Google and one site said the cost of a 50 watt panel was recouped in 2 years, how does that compare with the old type of panel? Chris Wessex Ferret Club www.wessexferretclub.co.uk ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] [solar-ac] new highly efficient solar power technology?
Here is a primer for anyone interested in PV technologies that describes how one should approach the question in terms of cost and payback period which was written by a colleague of mine recently in response to just such a question; Joe First of all, PV modules are generally marked in terms of peak-wattage (Wp). This indicates the maximum wattage they can deliver. For example, a 100 Wp solar module means it is capable of delivering a maximum of 100W power. If that module costs X dollars, then we say the PV cost is X/100 $/Wp. Crystalline silicon based solar modules usually come with a 20-25 year guarantee. This means, once purchased, they can be operational for this long. (maybe with a very small maintenance cost). At present crystalline Si (which dominates 85% of the PV market) PV modules cost some 5-7 $/Wp. Now the question is, what does this mean to a Canadian household? Let me explain this through an example: Consider a Canadian household that uses 1000 kWh of electricity per month. Take the current electricity cost as 6 cents/kWh. So for a total period of 20 years, the electricity cost for that household is: 20 x 12 x 1000 x 0.06 = $14400 (this is of course assuming the electricity cost and value of money don't change over 20 years!) Now let's see the costs if the same household utilizes the PV energy (with a 20-year guarantee) for electricity supply: Say, the average full sunlight hours per day = 4 The peak-wattage of the module = W watts So the total kWh that can be delivered by this module in 1 month = 4 x (W/1000) x 30 Since the household needs 1000 kWh/month, we have, 4 x (W/1000) x 30 = 1000 This gives us, W = 8333 Wp. So the household has to purchase a 8333 Wp PV module. Taking an average price of 6$/Wp, this will cost 6 x 8333 = $49998. This is of course much higher than the $14400 we found above. Therefore, the PV cost has to be brought down from the current 5 -7 $/Wp. If the PV cost is, say, 1.5 $/Wp, the above calculation yields a value of $12500. This value is very competitive to the grid electricity cost of $14400. There are two aspects in the cost of PV cells: the silicon material cost and the fabrication technology cost. RD efforts should be focused on reducing both these costs. For photovoltaic devices, the semiconductor material quality doesn't need to be as high as in the case of microelectronic industry for IC fabrication. Attempts should be made to use moderate quality (and therefore, low cost) silicon materials for PV fabrication. However moderate quality silicon contains material defects and impurities. Therefore research efforts should also be focused on developing affordable techniques for defect passivation of the low-cost materials, on new cell designs (i.e., novel device structures) that maximize the energy conversion efficiency, and on low-cost fabrication technologies for solar cells. By tackling both these issues, i.e, material cost-reduction and technology cost-reduction, the PV cost can be brought down to competitive values. Michael Redler wrote: My attitude is a little more forgiving. If all they have to offer is what you mentioned earlier, then I could not have repeated your sentiments any better. But first, I want to see the numbers. Mike Zeke Yewdall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, while I would like to to find out more about the alloy solar cells, the rest of the marketing is a bit disengenous. Grid tied PV systems that can provide all of a homes power and interface directly with the existing wiring have been around for at least 5 or 10 years, and the PV to provide the power has been around for 25 years. Get with the times people. It's like trying to sell a new model of car, and touting the fact that it has doors and seatbelts and a radio as major new selling points too... duh. On 2/17/06, Michael Redler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This sounds like great news. However, I was disappointed not to see specific informationabout performanceor expectedcost per Watt for the consumer. Can anyoneprovide additional information? Thanks. Mike Doug Kalmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There's a bit more to the article. The person who posted it on a list couldn't find hardly anything other than this one article. http://www.int.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1click_id=116art_id=vn2006020132138C184427 In a scientific breakthrough that has stunned the world, a team of South African scientists has developed a revolutionary new, highly efficient solar power technology that will enable homes to obtain all their electricity from the sun. The unique South African-developed solar panels will make it possible for houses to become completely self-sufficient for energy supplies. The panels are able to generate enough energy to run stoves, geysers, lights, TVs, fridges, computers - in short all the mod-cons of the modern house.
Re: [Biofuel] [solar-ac] new highly efficient solar powertechnology?
My power co will give you $600/1kw of generating capacity up to 5kw generation capacity. Then they buy it at 2 or 3 cents per kw/h generated. The most costly part is it has to pass a inspection by the state and use state approved products and parts. I can build a 500 watt wind generator for 2~300 no problem. I have been looking at building a 1kw generator just to see what it will cost. Now if only I could get around the we only like type A B and C gear for the $600/kw incentive I could break even right off the bat. I suggest others ask there power co about such as well (mines a co-op so that could be a big difference) Jeromie Reeves Zeke Yewdall wrote: Currently grid tied PV pays back in between 5 years and 60 years, depending on how sunny the climate is, how much electricity costs, and what sort of incentives are in place. In Colorado, with the incentives we have now, it's about 13 years. A 50 watt panel is actually pretty small nowadays. Between 120 and 200 watts is more common. On 2/17/06, Chris lloyd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My attitude is a little more forgiving. If all they have to offer is what you mentioned earlier, then I could not have repeated your sentiments any better. But first, I want to see the numbers. I looked up the cells with Google and one site said the cost of a 50 watt panel was recouped in 2 years, how does that compare with the old type of panel? Chris Wessex Ferret Club www.wessexferretclub.co.uk ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Cross Posted: Mercury Levels Rising: Report Release
Naww for blackflies what you want is pine pitch. Collect it where it drips from an injured tree. Slather it liberaly over any exposed skin / hair. It makes a wonderful lip balm when used directly too I am told. Joe mark manchester wrote: Re: [Biofuel] Cross Posted: Mercury Levels Rising: Report Release What a fantastic solution this might be during BlackFly Season AAAGGG! Thanks Kim. Jesse From: Garth Kim Travis [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 08:38:28 -0600 To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Cross Posted: Mercury Levels Rising: Report Release Greetings, We have found that real vanilla, mixed 1/2 1/2 with water and sprayed on skin is extremely effective against mesquitos here in Texas. It is possible to buy clear vanilla from Mexico so you don't stain your clothes. It also smells much nicer than bacon grease. Might help with the babe problem, as well. Bright Blessings, Kim At 08:08 AM 2/15/2006, you wrote: BTW and this is a little off topic as well but while we're on the natural remedies subject I've also found that rubbing bacon grease all over myself and my tent is very effective against mosquitos when I'm travelling in bear country. It's not a babe magnet either :( It doesn't polarise fuel either:( I guess I'm not being too helpful. :( Joe Michael Redler wrote: One remedy for heavy metals does not a babe-magnet make. :-) Mike Tom Irwin [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Mike and All, I'm increasing my garlic intake. It seems that one of the compounds in garlic acts as a chelating agent for heavy metals. I don't know if it will catch mercury but it is supposed to be fairly effective for lead. Tom Irwin From: Mike McGinness [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ] To: Sent: Sun, 12 Feb 2006 13:54:55 -0300 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Cross Posted: Mercury Levels Rising: Report Release The mercury in vaccines and flu shots has been reduced 99.9% from what it was a few years ago (I researched this a few months ago for a recent booster shot) if you get the right supplier!! BUT, Ask to see the paper work first for the actual vial being used!! I found that out while dealing with the local County Health Clinic dispensing the Vaccines recently. Of course that begs the next question of what toxin they replaced the mercury with to keep the vaccine and flu shots sterile and presumably safe! Mike McGinness Margo wrote: Mercury seems to be in the vaccines as well, including flu shots. I don't know what the answer is, but there must be a better answer than some of the things we humans have come up with so far. I still think the natural food industry has a lot to contribute in this area. Young Living has some very interesting information in some of their latest studies. - Original Message - From: "Mike McGinness" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2006 4:48 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Cross Posted: Mercury Levels Rising: Report Release In regards to mercury emissions from burning coal and my prior comments: I almost forgot the really big, big BIG issue. All silver colored dental fillings are currently still made from mercury amalgam metal alloy (50% raw mercury!!!) according to my local dentist Therefore, We are probably the single largest unregulated source of mercury emissions in the environment! Thanks to the FDA! Mike McGinness ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
Re: [Biofuel] [solar-ac] new highly efficient solar powertechnology?
Here the power company is going to start paying $4,500/kW, up to 10kW. And they net meter, as long as you don't produce more than you use at the end of the year. And yes, they all have to meet electrical code. That's why all of a sudden, the payback went from 25 years to about 13 years. Probably closer to 5 years if you installed it yourself. For grid tie, doing it to code doesn't cost much more than the cheapest possible way -- no one really makes equipment that is technically able to do it, without getting it listed. So I'm not sure why that's a big drawback. Unless they had absurd requirements in addition to meeting electrical code -- I have run into to utilities with that. Z On 2/17/06, Jeromie Reeves [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My power co will give you $600/1kw of generating capacity up to 5kw generation capacity. Then they buy it at 2 or 3 cents per kw/h generated. The most costly part is it has to pass a inspection by the state and use state approved products and parts. I can build a 500 watt wind generator for 2~300 no problem. I have been looking at building a 1kw generator just to see what it will cost. Now if only I could get around the we only like type A B and C gear for the $600/kw incentive I could break even right off the bat. I suggest others ask there power co about such as well (mines a co-op so that could be a big difference) Jeromie Reeves Zeke Yewdall wrote: Currently grid tied PV pays back in between 5 years and 60 years, depending on how sunny the climate is, how much electricity costs, and what sort of incentives are in place. In Colorado, with the incentives we have now, it's about 13 years. A 50 watt panel is actually pretty small nowadays. Between 120 and 200 watts is more common. On 2/17/06, Chris lloyd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My attitude is a little more forgiving. If all they have to offer is what you mentioned earlier, then I could not have repeated your sentiments any better. But first, I want to see the numbers. I looked up the cells with Google and one site said the cost of a 50 watt panel was recouped in 2 years, how does that compare with the old type of panel? Chris Wessex Ferret Club www.wessexferretclub.co.uk ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] new highly efficient solarpower technology
Here is a link describing the cost performance and composition of the new solar cells developed by Professor Alberts in Africa. http://cooltech.iafrica.com/features/508857.htm Best Regards, Peter From: Joe Street [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgTo: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject: Re: [Biofuel] [solar-ac] new highly efficient solarpower technology?Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 15:19:24 -0500 Here is a primer for anyone interested in PV technologies that describes how one should approach the question in terms of cost and payback period which was written by a colleague of mine recently in response to just such a question;JoeFirst of all, PV modules are generally marked in terms of peak-wattage (Wp). This indicates the maximum wattage they can deliver. For example, a 100 Wp solar module means it is capable of delivering a maximum of 100W power. If that module costs X dollars, then we say the PV cost is X/100 $/Wp.Crystalline silicon based solar modules usually come with a 20-25 year guarantee. This means, once purchased, they can be operational for this long. (maybe with a very small maintenance cost).At present crystalline Si (which dominates 85% of the PV market) PV modules cost some 5-7 $/Wp.Now the question is, what does this mean to a Canadian household?Let me explain this through an example:Consider a Canadian household that uses 1000 kWh of electricity per month.Take the current electricity cost as 6 cents/kWh.So for a total period of 20 years, the electricity cost for that household is: 20 x 12 x 1000 x 0.06 = $14400(this is of course assuming the electricity cost and value of money don't change over 20 years!)Now let's see the costs if the same household utilizes the PV energy (with a 20-year guarantee) for electricity supply:Say, the average full sunlight hours per day = 4The peak-wattage of the module = W wattsSo the total kWh that can be delivered by this module in 1 month = 4 x (W/1000) x 30Since the household needs 1000 kWh/month, we have, 4 x (W/1000) x 30 = 1000This gives us, W = 8333 Wp.So the household has to purchase a 8333 Wp PV module.Taking an average price of 6$/Wp, this will cost 6 x 8333 = $49998.This is of course much higher than the $14400 we found above.Therefore, the PV cost has to be brought down from the current 5 -7 $/Wp.If the PV cost is, say, 1.5 $/Wp, the above calculation yields a value of $12500.This value is very competitive to the grid electricity cost of $14400.There are two aspects in the cost of PV cells: the silicon material cost and the fabrication technology cost. RD efforts should be focused on reducing both these costs. For photovoltaic devices, the semiconductor material quality doesn't need to be as high as in the case of microelectronic industry for IC fabrication. Attempts should be made to use moderate quality (and therefore, low cost) silicon materials for PV fabrication. However moderate quality silicon contains material defects and impurities. Therefore research efforts should also be focused on developing affordable techniques for defect passivation of the low-cost materials, on new cell designs (i.e., novel device structures) that maximize the energy conversion efficiency, and on low-cost fabrication technologies for solar cells. By tackling both these issues, i.e, material cost-reduction and technology cost-reduction, the PV cost can be brought down to competitive values.Michael Redler wrote: My attitude is a little more forgiving. If all they have to offer is what you mentioned earlier, then I could not have repeated your sentiments any better. But first, I want to see the numbers. MikeZeke Yewdall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, while I would like to to find out more about the alloy solar cells, the rest of the marketing is a bit disengenous. Grid tied PV systems that can provide all of a homes power and interface directly with the existing wiring have been around for at least 5 or 10 years, and the PV to provide the power has been around for 25 years. Get with the times people. It's like trying to sell a new model of car, and touting the fact that it has doors and seatbelts and a radio as major new selling points too... duh. On 2/17/06, Michael Redler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This sounds like great news. However, I was disappointed not to see specific informationabout performanceor expectedcost per Watt for the consumer. Can anyoneprovide additional information? Thanks. MikeDoug Kalmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There's a bit more to the article. The person who posted it ona list couldn't find hardly anything other than this one article. http://www.int.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1click_id=116art_id=vn2006020132138C184427 In a scientific breakthrough that has stunned the world, a team of SouthAfrican scientists has developed a revolutionary new, highly efficient solarpower technology that will enable homes to obtain all their electricity fromthe sun.The unique South African-developed solar panels will make it
Re: [Biofuel] new highly efficient solarpower technology
It'll be nice to see some actual modules from that. It sounds similar to the Copper Indium DiSelenide modules that Siemens was producing, but with slightly different chemicals. Unfortuneatly, every sort of thin film PV that has been developed in the past 10 years has been trumpeted as being the great cost breakthrough in PV, because it uses so little raw material and can be deposited on any surface. So far, they all cost about $4/watt, jjust like the crystalline PV I hope they can live up to the hype this time. On 2/17/06, Peter Morgan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Here is a link describing the cost performance and composition of the new solar cells developed by Professor Alberts in Africa. http://cooltech.iafrica.com/features/508857.htm Best Regards, Peter From: Joe Street [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] [solar-ac] new highly efficient solarpower technology? Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 15:19:24 -0500 Here is a primer for anyone interested in PV technologies that describes how one should approach the question in terms of cost and payback period which was written by a colleague of mine recently in response to just such a question; Joe First of all, PV modules are generally marked in terms of peak-wattage (Wp). This indicates the maximum wattage they can deliver. For example, a 100 Wp solar module means it is capable of delivering a maximum of 100W power. If that module costs X dollars, then we say the PV cost is X/100 $/Wp. Crystalline silicon based solar modules usually come with a 20-25 year guarantee. This means, once purchased, they can be operational for this long. (maybe with a very small maintenance cost). At present crystalline Si (which dominates 85% of the PV market) PV modules cost some 5-7 $/Wp. Now the question is, what does this mean to a Canadian household? Let me explain this through an example: Consider a Canadian household that uses 1000 kWh of electricity per month. Take the current electricity cost as 6 cents/kWh. So for a total period of 20 years, the electricity cost for that household is: 20 x 12 x 1000 x 0.06 = $14400 (this is of course assuming the electricity cost and value of money don't change over 20 years!) Now let's see the costs if the same household utilizes the PV energy (with a 20-year guarantee) for electricity supply: Say, the average full sunlight hours per day = 4 The peak-wattage of the module = W watts So the total kWh that can be delivered by this module in 1 month = 4 x (W/1000) x 30 Since the household needs 1000 kWh/month, we have, 4 x (W/1000) x 30 = 1000 This gives us, W = 8333 Wp. So the household has to purchase a 8333 Wp PV module. Taking an average price of 6$/Wp, this will cost 6 x 8333 = $49998. This is of course much higher than the $14400 we found above. Therefore, the PV cost has to be brought down from the current 5 -7 $/Wp. If the PV cost is, say, 1.5 $/Wp, the above calculation yields a value of $12500. This value is very competitive to the grid electricity cost of $14400. There are two aspects in the cost of PV cells: the silicon material cost and the fabrication technology cost. RD efforts should be focused on reducing both these costs. For photovoltaic devices, the semiconductor material quality doesn't need to be as high as in the case of microelectronic industry for IC fabrication. Attempts should be made to use moderate quality (and therefore, low cost) silicon materials for PV fabrication. However moderate quality silicon contains material defects and impurities. Therefore research efforts should also be focused on developing affordable techniques for defect passivation of the low-cost materials, on new cell designs (i.e., novel device structures) that maximize the energy conversion efficiency, and on low-cost fabrication technologies for solar cells. By tackling both these issues, i.e, material cost-reduction and technology cost-reduction, the PV cost can be brought down to competitive values. Michael Redler wrote: My attitude is a little more forgiving. If all they have to offer is what you mentioned earlier, then I could not have repeated your sentiments any better. But first, I want to see the numbers. Mike Zeke Yewdall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, while I would like to to find out more about the alloy solar cells, the rest of the marketing is a bit disengenous. Grid tied PV systems that can provide all of a homes power and interface directly with the existing wiring have been around for at least 5 or 10 years, and the PV to provide the power has been around for 25 years. Get with the times people. It's like trying to sell a new model of car, and touting the fact that it has doors and seatbelts and a radio as major new selling points too... duh. On 2/17/06, Michael Redler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This
Re: [Biofuel] Any other lister in Malaysia?
I've got a friend named Mark (Marc?) Masur living in KL. He plays in the Philharmonic (percussion), and he was asking me about biodiesel for running his generator. I'll try to find his email, but you could probably phone the Malaysia Philharmonic and ask for him (or leave a message - I don't know how uptight the Petron-ASS people are?). Kenji Fuse On Fri, 17 Feb 2006, Khin Wei Chong wrote: Hi...Im KW.Chong from KL, Malaysia --- Gary L. Green [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In line with what Josh just asked, is there anyone on this list from Malaysia? ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] new highly efficient solarpower technology
Title: Message The article stated R10 per peek watt = $1.67 (US) peek watt. I does not indicate the actual efficiency or the life expectancy. Historically thin films suffer from high degradation over time. So how knows. MT -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Peter MorganSent: Friday, February 17, 2006 1:01 PMTo: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject: [Biofuel] new highly efficient solarpower technology Here is a link describing the cost performance and composition of the new solar cells developed by Professor Alberts in Africa. http://cooltech.iafrica.com/features/508857.htm Best Regards, Peter From: Joe Street [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgTo: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject: Re: [Biofuel] [solar-ac] new highly efficient solarpower technology?Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 15:19:24 -0500 Here is a primer for anyone interested in PV technologies that describes how one should approach the question in terms of cost and payback period which was written by a colleague of mine recently in response to just such a question;JoeFirst of all, PV modules are generally marked in terms of peak-wattage (Wp). This indicates the maximum wattage they can deliver. For example, a 100 Wp solar module means it is capable of delivering a maximum of 100W power. If that module costs X dollars, then we say the PV cost is X/100 $/Wp.Crystalline silicon based solar modules usually come with a 20-25 year guarantee. This means, once purchased, they can be operational for this long. (maybe with a very small maintenance cost).At present crystalline Si (which dominates 85% of the PV market) PV modules cost some 5-7 $/Wp.Now the question is, what does this mean to a Canadian household?Let me explain this through an example:Consider a Canadian household that uses 1000 kWh of electricity per month.Take the current electricity cost as 6 cents/kWh.So for a total period of 20 years, the electricity cost for that household is: 20 x 12 x 1000 x 0.06 = $14400(this is of course assuming the electricity cost and value of money don't change over 20 years!)Now let's see the costs if the same household utilizes the PV energy (with a 20-year guarantee) for electricity supply:Say, the average full sunlight hours per day = 4The peak-wattage of the module = W wattsSo the total kWh that can be delivered by this module in 1 month = 4 x (W/1000) x 30Since the household needs 1000 kWh/month, we have, 4 x (W/1000) x 30 = 1000This gives us, W = 8333 Wp.So the household has to purchase a 8333 Wp PV module.Taking an average price of 6$/Wp, this will cost 6 x 8333 = $49998.This is of course much higher than the $14400 we found above.Therefore, the PV cost has to be brought down from the current 5 -7 $/Wp.If the PV cost is, say, 1.5 $/Wp, the above calculation yields a value of $12500.This value is very competitive to the grid electricity cost of $14400.There are two aspects in the cost of PV cells: the silicon material cost and the fabrication technology cost. RD efforts should be focused on reducing both these costs. For photovoltaic devices, the semiconductor material quality doesn't need to be as high as in the case of microelectronic industry for IC fabrication. Attempts should be made to use moderate quality (and therefore, low cost) silicon materials for PV fabrication. However moderate quality silicon contains material defects and impurities. Therefore research efforts should also be focused on developing affordable techniques for defect passivation of the low-cost materials, on new cell designs (i.e., novel device structures) that maximize the energy conversion efficiency, and on low-cost fabrication technologies for solar cells. By tackling both these issues, i.e, material cost-reduction and technology cost-reduction, the PV cost can be brought down to competitive values.Michael Redler wrote: My attitude is a little more forgiving. If all they have to offer is what you mentioned earlier, then I could not have repeated your sentiments any better. But first, I want to see the numbers. MikeZeke Yewdall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, while I would like to to find out more about the alloy solar cells, the rest of the marketing is a bit disengenous. Grid tied PV systems that can provide all of a homes power and interface directly with the existing wiring have been around for at least 5 or 10 years, and the PV to provide the power has been around for 25 years. Get with the times people. It's like trying to sell a new model of car, and touting the fact that it has
[Biofuel] Biofuel Co-operative preliminary meeting, Waterloo, ON
Greetings, You are invited to attend the first meeting to help plan and shape a biofuel co-operative headquartered in Waterloo. In attendance will be Joe Street, who has developed a reliable biodiesel reactor and started http://www.nonprofitfuel.ca in order to promote biofuels. My name is Andrew Netherton, and I'm assisting Joe in the organization and administration of this group. We will be meeting on Monday, March 6th at 7pm in Waterloo. The location is Sobeys at 450 Columbia Street (at Fischer-Hallman) in Waterloo in the community room upstairs (enter and go left). There is no set agenda to the meeting, but the focus will be on organizing the group, what structure would serve us best, and a vision for what we'd like to accomplish in the short, medium, and long term. And of course, meeting and greeting each other! Please feel free to forward this message on to anyone else that may be interested in either attending or following our progress. Any questions can be forwarded to myself. Thanks, and see you there! Regards, Andrew Netherton ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] [solar-ac] new highly efficient solar powertechnology?
Hello, I read your post on what your cost was to build a 500 watt wind gen. I was curious as to the wind speed it requires . I'm near lake mich. in chicago where we do get a pretty constant air movement. and as i plan to move to the rurals out west i have begun to work on proto types of generation mostly diesel based though wind and batteries is the other arm of such a system. thanks, ray From: Jeromie Reeves [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] [solar-ac] new highly efficient solar powertechnology? Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 12:56:02 -0800 My power co will give you $600/1kw of generating capacity up to 5kw generation capacity. Then they buy it at 2 or 3 cents per kw/h generated. The most costly part is it has to pass a inspection by the state and use state approved products and parts. I can build a 500 watt wind generator for 2~300 no problem. I have been looking at building a 1kw generator just to see what it will cost. Now if only I could get around the we only like type A B and C gear for the $600/kw incentive I could break even right off the bat. I suggest others ask there power co about such as well (mines a co-op so that could be a big difference) Jeromie Reeves Zeke Yewdall wrote: Currently grid tied PV pays back in between 5 years and 60 years, depending on how sunny the climate is, how much electricity costs, and what sort of incentives are in place. In Colorado, with the incentives we have now, it's about 13 years. A 50 watt panel is actually pretty small nowadays. Between 120 and 200 watts is more common. On 2/17/06, Chris lloyd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My attitude is a little more forgiving. If all they have to offer is what you mentioned earlier, then I could not have repeated your sentiments any better. But first, I want to see the numbers. I looked up the cells with Google and one site said the cost of a 50 watt panel was recouped in 2 years, how does that compare with the old type of panel? Chris Wessex Ferret Club www.wessexferretclub.co.uk ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Any other lister in Malaysia?
On 17 Feb 2006, at 21:59, Khin Wei Chong wrote: Hi...Im KW.Chong from KL, Malaysia Hello Mr. Chong. I live in Taman Seputeh, near Midvalley Megamall. My Chiropractic centre is in Brickfields. www.chiro.com.my Good to see other folks here from KL. Are you involved in any local energy projects? --- Gary L. Green [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In line with what Josh just asked, is there anyone on this list from Malaysia? ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/ biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/ biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
