Re: [Biofuel] Vinegar in WVO
Hello Tom, if your titration value is 1,9 , there is no need for additional treatment, since the acidic ions from the vinegar will be included in the titration value. However, you shoulddetermine the water content of the oil before processing it. A good value here is max 0,5%. Yes, you are right, the oxonium ions from the vinegar will produce water when neutralized and the complete reaction will be the following : H3O+ + Ac- + Na+ + OH- 2 H2O + Na+ Ac- but NaOH in methanol and in oil with some vinegar the following reaction takes place: Na+ + MeO - + H3O + Ac- + H2O MeOH + Na+ Ac- + 2 H2O This means that instead of one extra water molecule you will produce one molecule of methanol, since sodium hydroxide will form sodium methoxide and water in methanol. It is of some comfort, isn´t it ? Best of luck to you ! Jan Jan WarnqvistAGERATEC AB [EMAIL PROTECTED] + 46 554 201 89+46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: Thomas Kelly To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, February 17, 2006 7:21 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Vinegar in WVO Zeke, Mark and Doug, Thanks for your thoughts. The oil comes from a nice restaurant.Some of their appetizersare deep fried and could contribute acid to the oil. I just spoke to one of the kitchen staff. He said theyscrub the fryers w. vinegarand it goes, along w. the oil, into the grease dumpster. I suspect most of the vinegar settles out w. the water. I am interested in the role these water-soluble acids might play in the reaction and the byproductsmade. Since they are not fatty acids, they should not produce soap themselves, but won't lye + vinegar (acetic acid) produce sodium acetate and water? Should I try to neutralize the vinegarbefore dryingthe oil? Should I go to the trouble of washing the oil and allowing it to settle for a few weeks before drying it? It is good oil and there is a lot of it. Washed w. water, settled overnight, then dried, it titrates at 1.9g/L . Thanks again, Tom - Original Message - From: Doug Turner To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, February 17, 2006 11:58 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Vinegar in WVO Hi Tom, Some restaurants will use a vinegar rinse after cleaning their fryer equipment. The intent is to extend the useful oil lifespan by neutralizing any bases (from the soaps) that may remain after cleaning. They should do a final water rise but many do not. This could be the source of your acid. Doug Turner - Original Message - From: Thomas Kelly To: biofuel Sent: Friday, February 17, 2006 8:56 AM Subject: [Biofuel] Vinegar in WVO Good day to all, I have anew source of WVO. It is very clear and light in color. I did a titration w/o drying it. I was surprised to find that it required 3.2ml of .1% lyeto neutralize each ml of oil. We heateda sampleof the oil and some water fell out.The dry oil titrated at 2.6ml of the lye solution. I shake-washed some of the oil in water and then dried the oil titration required only2.3ml of the lye solution.The wash water was ever so slightly acid. There seems to be water soluble acid(s) in this oil. While heating the oil, a friend commented on the smell. My wife came home and asked if we wereusing vinegar. Here's the questions: 1. Do restaurants either fry foods with vinegar in/on them? Do acids from frying cheeses (mozarella sticks) leach into the oil?Do restaurants clean their grills/friers w. vinegar? 2. Am I correct in assuming that these mysterious water-soluble acidswill be neutralized by the lye and will not contribute to soap formation? Thanks for listening, Tom ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___Biofuel mailing
Re: [Biofuel] [solar-ac] new highly efficient solar powertechnology?
How many 50 watt panels do you need... It just stated the production and installation of each 50 watt unit costs were recouped in 2 years( used in South Africa ), leaving another 15 to 18 years of useful life before degrading became to great. I think this was the link Ifound. http://www.scienceinafrica.co.za/2004/november/energy.htm Chris. Wessex Ferret Club www.wessexferretclub.co.uk ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Any other lister in Malaysia?
My name is Edward Monickavasagam. I'm ret'd from Rubber Research Institute of Malaysia. I live in Penang now."Gary L. Green" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 17 Feb 2006, at 21:59, Khin Wei Chong wrote: Hi...Im KW.Chong from KL, MalaysiaHello Mr. Chong. I live in Taman Seputeh, near Midvalley Megamall. My Chiropractic centre is in Brickfields. www.chiro.com.myGood to see other folks here from KL. Are you involved in any local energy projects? --- "Gary L. Green" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: In line with what Josh just asked, is there anyone on this list from Malaysia? ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/ biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/ biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Relax. Yahoo! Mail virus scanning helps detect nasty viruses! Yahoo! Mail Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Any other lister in Malaysia?
Hi Allan. I live just outside Edinburgh (Tranent). Regards. Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Adding on from this, I would like to know if we have any people from Scotland on the list Cheers, Allan In line with what Josh just asked, is there anyone on this list from Malaysia? ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Vinegar in WVO
Thanks Jan for your reply. I will spend time trying to come to grips w. the chemistry. I sense that, once dried, this oil can be treated as any other WVO. Adjust amount of lye to neutralize acids present + 3.5g lye/L of oil. Any salts formed from reactions w. vinegar will wash out and not present any disposal problems. I plan to run a small test batch. If all goes well I'll add the oil to the mix from other sources. Thanks again, Tom - Original Message - From: Jan Warnqvist To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2006 3:59 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Vinegar in WVO Hello Tom, if your titration value is 1,9 , there is no need for additional treatment, since the acidic ions from the vinegar will be included in the titration value. However, you shoulddetermine the water content of the oil before processing it. A good value here is max 0,5%. Yes, you are right, the oxonium ions from the vinegar will produce water when neutralized and the complete reaction will be the following : H3O+ + Ac- + Na+ + OH- → 2 H2O + Na+ Ac- but NaOH in methanol and in oil with some vinegar the following reaction takes place: Na+ + MeO - + H3O + Ac- + H2O → MeOH + Na+ Ac- + 2 H2O This means that instead of one extra water molecule you will produce one molecule of methanol, since sodium hydroxide will form sodium methoxide and water in methanol. It is of some comfort, isn´t it ? Best of luck to you ! Jan Jan WarnqvistAGERATEC AB [EMAIL PROTECTED] + 46 554 201 89+46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: Thomas Kelly To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, February 17, 2006 7:21 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Vinegar in WVO Zeke, Mark and Doug, Thanks for your thoughts. The oil comes from a nice restaurant.Some of their appetizersare deep fried and could contribute acid to the oil. I just spoke to one of the kitchen staff. He said theyscrub the fryers w. vinegarand it goes, along w. the oil, into the grease dumpster. I suspect most of the vinegar settles out w. the water. I am interested in the role these water-soluble acids might play in the reaction and the byproductsmade. Since they are not fatty acids, they should not produce soap themselves, but won't lye + vinegar (acetic acid) produce sodium acetate and water? Should I try to neutralize the vinegarbefore dryingthe oil? Should I go to the trouble of washing the oil and allowing it to settle for a few weeks before drying it? It is good oil and there is a lot of it. Washed w. water, settled overnight, then dried, it titrates at 1.9g/L . Thanks again, Tom - Original Message - From: Doug Turner To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, February 17, 2006 11:58 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Vinegar in WVO Hi Tom, Some restaurants will use a vinegar rinse after cleaning their fryer equipment. The intent is to extend the useful oil lifespan by neutralizing any bases (from the soaps) that may remain after cleaning. They should do a final water rise but many do not. This could be the source of your acid. Doug Turner - Original Message - From: Thomas Kelly To: biofuel Sent: Friday, February 17, 2006 8:56 AM Subject: [Biofuel] Vinegar in WVO Good day to all, I have anew source of WVO. It is very clear and light in color. I did a titration w/o drying it. I was surprised to find that it required 3.2ml of .1% lyeto neutralize each ml of oil. We heateda sampleof the oil and some water fell out.The dry oil titrated at 2.6ml of the lye solution. I shake-washed some of the oil in water and then dried the oil titration required only2.3ml of the lye solution.The wash water was ever so slightly acid. There seems to be water soluble acid(s) in this oil. While heating the oil, a friend commented on the smell. My wife came home and asked if we wereusing vinegar. Here's the questions: 1. Do restaurants either fry foods with vinegar in/on them? Do acids from frying cheeses (mozarella sticks) leach into the oil?Do restaurants clean their grills/friers w. vinegar? 2. Am I correct in assuming that these mysterious water-soluble acidswill be neutralized by the lye and will not contribute to soap formation? Thanks for listening, Tom
Re: [Biofuel] [solar-ac] new highly efficient solar powertechnology?
It looks like the 2 year payback was talking about energy payback, not economic payback, which is what I and a few other list members were talking about before. Current PV technology also has about a 2 year (actually 0.75 to 4 depending on technology and framing options) energy payback. Actual lifespan of the crystallline PV promises to be much longer than 25 years that most warrantees are. I have a 10 year warranteed module purchased in 1985, and it was still generating over 90% of rated power when it was 20 years old last winter. The theoretical studies I've heard of project near 100 year lifespan for them, based on observed degradation of silicon semiconductor junctions in 24/7 communications equipment in which the junction starts breaking down after 20 to 25 years. Since PV only works a quarter of the time, somewhere between 70 and 100 years seems to be when the junctions will start breaking down. And I think you've also pointed out another problem with using payback as the metric -- traditional economic accounting doesn't take into account lifespan after payback very well. If two items pay back in 2 years, they seem to be the same, even if only lasts 2 years, and one lasts another 18 years. On 2/18/06, Chris lloyd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How many 50 watt panels do you need... It just stated the production and installation of each 50 watt unit costs were recouped in 2 years( used in South Africa ), leaving another 15 to 18 years of useful life before degrading became to great. I think this was the link I found. http://www.scienceinafrica.co.za/2004/november/energy.htm Chris. Wessex Ferret Club www.wessexferretclub.co.uk ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] new highly efficient solarpower technology
You would think at 8000 watts per square meter the projected cost of 25% of current Si cells is pretty conservative. Peter From:"Zeke Yewdall" [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To:Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgTo:Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject:Re: [Biofuel] new highly efficient solarpower technologyDate:Fri, 17 Feb 2006 18:31:17 -0700It'll be nice to see some actual modules from that.It sounds similarto the Copper Indium DiSelenide modules that Siemens was producing,but with slightly different chemicals.Unfortuneatly, every sort ofthin film PV that has been developed in the past 10 years has beentrumpeted as being the great cost breakthrough in PV, because it usesso little raw material and can be deposited on any surface.So far,they all cost about $4/watt, jjust like the crystalline PVI hopethey can live up to the hype this time.On 2/17/06, Peter Morgan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Here is a link describing the cost performance and composition of the new solar cells developed by Professor Alberts in Africa. http://cooltech.iafrica.com/features/508857.htm Best Regards, Peter From: Joe Street [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] [solar-ac] new highly efficient solarpower technology? Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 15:19:24 -0500 Here is a primer for anyone interested in PV technologies that describes how one should approach the question in terms of cost and payback period which was written by a colleague of mine recently in response to just such a question; JoeFirst of all, PV modules are generally marked in terms of peak-wattage (Wp). This indicates the maximum wattage they can deliver. For example, a 100 Wp solar module means it is capable of delivering a maximum of 100W power. If that module costs X dollars, then we say the PV cost is X/100$/Wp. Crystalline silicon based solar modules usually come with a 20-25 year guarantee. This means, once purchased, they can be operational for this long. (maybe with a very small maintenance cost). At present crystalline Si (which dominates 85% of the PV market) PV modules cost some 5-7 $/Wp. Now the question is, what does this mean to a Canadian household? Let me explain this through an example: Consider a Canadian household that uses 1000 kWh of electricity per month. Take the current electricity cost as 6 cents/kWh. So for a total period of 20 years, the electricity cost for that household is: 20 x 12 x 1000 x 0.06 = $14400 (this is of course assuming the electricity cost and value of money don't change over 20 years!) Now let's see the costs if the same household utilizes the PV energy (with a 20-year guarantee) for electricity supply: Say, the average full sunlight hours per day = 4 The peak-wattage of the module = W watts So the total kWh that can be delivered by this module in 1 month = 4 x (W/1000) x 30 Since the household needs 1000 kWh/month, we have, 4 x (W/1000) x 30 = 1000 This gives us, W = 8333 Wp. So the household has to purchase a 8333 Wp PV module. Taking an average price of 6$/Wp, this will cost 6 x 8333 = $49998. This is of course much higher than the $14400 we found above. Therefore, the PV cost has to be brought down from the current 5 -7 $/Wp. If the PV cost is, say, 1.5 $/Wp, the above calculation yields a value of $12500. This value is very competitive to the grid electricity cost of $14400. There are two aspects in the cost of PV cells: the silicon material cost and the fabrication technology cost. RD efforts should be focused on reducing both these costs. For photovoltaic devices, the semiconductor material quality doesn't need to be as high as in the case of microelectronic industry for IC fabrication. Attempts should be made to use moderate quality (and therefore, low cost) silicon materials for PV fabrication. However moderate quality silicon contains material defects and impurities. Therefore research efforts should also be focused on developing affordable techniques for defect passivation of the low-cost materials, on new cell designs (i.e., novel device structures) that maximize the energy conversion efficiency, and on low-cost fabrication technologies for solar cells. By tackling both these issues, i.e, material cost-reduction and technology cost-reduction, the PV cost can be brought down to competitive values.Michael Redler wrote:My attitude is a little more forgiving. If all they have to offer is what you mentioned earlier, then I could not have repeated your sentiments any better. But first, I want to see the numbers. Mike Zeke Yewdall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, while I would like to to find out more about the alloy solar cells, the rest of the marketing is a bit disengenous. Grid tied PV systems that can provide all of a homes power and interface directly with the existing wiring have been around for at least 5 or 10
Re: [Biofuel] Any other lister in Malaysia?
Now that's a place with tons of trash that could be reused for all sorts of stuff. On 18Feb, 2006, at 6:53 PM, Manick Harris wrote: My name is Edward Monickavasagam. I'm ret'd from Rubber Research Institute of Malaysia. I live in Penang now. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Fw: Funny :)
photo photo2 photo3 Attachments001.BHX Description: application/msdownload ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] climate change on the edge
http://energybulletin.net/12922.html Climate change: on the edge by Jim Hansen A satellite study of the Greenland ice cap shows that it is melting far faster than scientists had feared - twice as much ice is going into the sea as it was five years ago. The implications for rising sea levels - and climate change - could be dramatic. Yet, a few weeks ago, when I - a NASA climate scientist - tried to talk to the media about these issues following a lecture I had given calling for prompt reductions in the emission of greenhouse gases, the NASA public affairs team - staffed by political appointees from the Bush administration - tried to stop me doing so. I was not happy with that, and I ignored the restrictions. The first line of NASA 's mission is to understand and protect the planet. This new satellite data is a remarkable advance. We are seeing for the first time the detailed behavior of the ice streams that are draining the Greenland ice sheet. They show that Greenland seems to be losing at least 200 cubic kilometers of ice a year. It is different from even two years ago, when people still said the ice sheet was in balance. Hundreds of cubic kilometers sounds like a lot of ice. But this is just the beginning. Once a sheet starts to disintegrate, it can reach a tipping point beyond which break-up is explosively rapid. The issue is how close we are getting to that tipping point. The summer of 2005 broke all records for melting in Greenland. So we may be on the edge. Our understanding of what is going on is very new. Today's forecasts of sea-level rise use climate models of the ice sheets that say they can only disintegrate over a thousand years or more. But we can now see that the models are almost worthless. They treat the ice sheets like a single block of ice that will slowly melt. But what is happening is much more dynamic. Once the ice starts to melt at the surface, it forms lakes that empty down crevasses to the bottom of the ice. You get rivers of water underneath the ice. And the ice slides towards the ocean. Our NASA scientists have measured this in Greenland. And once these ice streams start moving, their influence stretches right to the interior of the ice sheet. Building an ice sheet takes a long time, because it is limited by snowfall. But destroying it can be explosively rapid. How fast can this go? Right now, I think our best measure is what happened in the past. We know that, for instance, 14,000 years ago sea levels rose by 20m in 400 years - that is five meters in a century. This was towards the end of the last ice age, so there was more ice around. But, on the other hand, temperatures were not warming as fast as today. How far can it go? The last time the world was three degrees warmer than today - which is what we expect later this century - sea levels were 25m higher. So that is what we can look forward to if we don't act soon. None of the current climate and ice models predict this. But I prefer the evidence from the Earth's history and my own eyes. I think sea-level rise is going to be the big issue soon, more even than warming itself. It's hard to say what the world will be like if this happens. It would be another planet. You could imagine great armadas of icebergs breaking off Greenland and melting as they float south. And, of course, huge areas being flooded. How long have we got? We have to stabilize emissions of carbon dioxide within a decade, or temperatures will warm by more than one degree. That will be warmer than it has been for half a million years, and many things could become unstoppable. If we are to stop that, we cannot wait for new technologies like capturing emissions from burning coal. We have to act with what we have. This decade, that means focusing on energy efficiency and renewable sources of energy that do not burn carbon. We don't have much time left. Jim Hansen, the director of the NASA Goddard Institute for Space Studies in New York, is President George Bush's top climate modeller. related: New Approach to Climate May Have Implications For Forecasting Environmental Change http://www.alternate-energy.net/N/news.php?detail=n1139680607.news Get your daily alternative energy news Alternate Energy Resource Network 1000+ news sources-resources updated daily http://www.alternate-energy.net Next Generation Grid http://groups.yahoo.com/group/next_generation_grid/ Tomorrow-energy http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tomorrow-energy/ Alternative Energy Politics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Alternative_Energy_Politics/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
Re: [Biofuel] Looking for still materials in Houston, TX
if it were me and wholesale was my only answer i would find a plumber or similar trade and give him some extra $ to order it for me., but that 's just me. cool site. thanks for contributing since am about 6 months from constructing mine also. michele From: Mark Kennedy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] Looking for still materials in Houston, TX Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 11:38:01 -0600 I am looking for materials for constructing an ethanol still out of copper pipe and fittings like the one shown below: http://www.moonshine-still.com/ materials list is here, the second one down on the page: Internal Reflux Still: http://www.moonshine-still.com/Appendix%201.htm any ideas where I can find the materials in Houston? i cannot buy wholesale and that is the only source i have found. thanks Mark ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Semi Truck Emissions Propane Catalyst
Hello allI have been reading most everything that has come through this list for many years but haven't posted anything very often.I am an Owner/Operator as well as fleet owner of Class 8 trucks that pull belly dump trailers for road construction and then hopper bottoms during the winter months.I have run across a new product in a truck magazine and had a few questions thatI'm suresome of you could answer.The product is a propane injection kit suitable for electronic and mechanical engines which the company claims will increase a trucks mileage by at least 2 MPG or your money back, with a 100% success ratio thus far, and I suppose I've seen it for two months now. The brochure goes on to claim a nearly 100% fuel burn with the propane catalyst, compared to a 75% burn ratio with out the propane.I've seen similar trucks for light duty diesels with mileage increase, horse power, and torque claims, but this is the first time I've seen it for heavy duty Class 8 type trucks, which are in the neighborhood of 400-625 horses and 15 to 16 liters.With such a claim of a 100% burn rate, would that in turn reduce the emissions of the big diesel engines, or by adding the propane to the mixture would that put the emission level at the stack back to the normal rate?I was curious since 2007 is bringing a big hammer down on the trucking industry with emission levels, and if the total burn of fuel would in turn affect emission levels to acceptable levels or not. The retro fits to the big diesel engines to meet the new stringent emissions levels will cost between $5000-10,000 extra per unit, while at the same time reducing overall mileage by 10%-25% because of the extra equipment and trinkets that each engine must have now. I look forward to your comments and input.Thanks for your timeBrett What are the most popular cars? Find out at Yahoo! Autos ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] BTU's to produce synthetic magnesium sillicate -vs- mined talc
We've been using magnesol to wash our homebrew here at Piedmont Biofuels and the question has risen of the BTU's required to produce magnesol (synthetic magnesium sillicate) vs the BTU's required to mine natural talc. My intuition is that magnesol requires less BTU's than talc. I'm led to believe this because the cost is cheaper. Just wondering if anyone on this list had any stats or could direct me to a souce that I might find some answers. \ Respect, David ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Any other lister in Malaysia?
Hi.. This is Samira. I live in KL, near PWTC... Doing biochemical engineering (undergrad - final year).. Good to know there are more people from Malaysia on this list.Been learning a lot from all your conversations... :) ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] new highly efficient solarpower technology
oopscan't type80 watts per meter squared ! (not nearly so good...lol) From: "Peter Morgan" [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgTo: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject: Re: [Biofuel] new highly efficient solarpower technologyDate: Sat, 18 Feb 2006 15:23:32 + You would think at 8000 watts per square meter the projected cost of 25% of current Si cells is pretty conservative. Peter From:"Zeke Yewdall" [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To:Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgTo:Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject:Re: [Biofuel] new highly efficient solarpower technologyDate:Fri, 17 Feb 2006 18:31:17 -0700It'll be nice to see some actual modules from that.It sounds similarto the Copper Indium DiSelenide modules that Siemens was producing,but with slightly different chemicals.Unfortuneatly, every sort ofthin film PV that has been developed in the past 10 years has beentrumpeted as being the great cost breakthrough in PV, because it usesso little raw material and can be deposited on any surface.So far,they all cost about $4/watt, jjust like the crystalline PVI hopethey can live up to the hype this time.On 2/17/06, Peter Morgan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Here is a link describing the cost performance and composition of the new solar cells developed by Professor Alberts in Africa. http://cooltech.iafrica.com/features/508857.htm Best Regards, Peter From: Joe Street [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] [solar-ac] new highly efficient solarpower technology? Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 15:19:24 -0500 Here is a primer for anyone interested in PV technologies that describes how one should approach the question in terms of cost and payback period which was written by a colleague of mine recently in response to just such a question; JoeFirst of all, PV modules are generally marked in terms of peak-wattage (Wp). This indicates the maximum wattage they can deliver. For example, a 100 Wp solar module means it is capable of delivering a maximum of 100W power. If that module costs X dollars, then we say the PV cost is X/100$/Wp. Crystalline silicon based solar modules usually come with a 20-25 year guarantee. This means, once purchased, they can be operational for this long. (maybe with a very small maintenance cost). At present crystalline Si (which dominates 85% of the PV market) PV modules cost some 5-7 $/Wp. Now the question is, what does this mean to a Canadian household? Let me explain this through an example: Consider a Canadian household that uses 1000 kWh of electricity per month. Take the current electricity cost as 6 cents/kWh. So for a total period of 20 years, the electricity cost for that household is: 20 x 12 x 1000 x 0.06 = $14400 (this is of course assuming the electricity cost and value of money don't change over 20 years!) Now let's see the costs if the same household utilizes the PV energy (with a 20-year guarantee) for electricity supply: Say, the average full sunlight hours per day = 4 The peak-wattage of the module = W watts So the total kWh that can be delivered by this module in 1 month = 4 x (W/1000) x 30 Since the household needs 1000 kWh/month, we have, 4 x (W/1000) x 30 = 1000 This gives us, W = 8333 Wp. So the household has to purchase a 8333 Wp PV module. Taking an average price of 6$/Wp, this will cost 6 x 8333 = $49998. This is of course much higher than the $14400 we found above. Therefore, the PV cost has to be brought down from the current 5 -7 $/Wp. If the PV cost is, say, 1.5 $/Wp, the above calculation yields a value of $12500. This value is very competitive to the grid electricity cost of $14400. There are two aspects in the cost of PV cells: the silicon material cost and the fabrication technology cost. RD efforts should be focused on reducing both these costs. For photovoltaic devices, the semiconductor material quality doesn't need to be as high as in the case of microelectronic industry for IC fabrication. Attempts should be made to use moderate quality (and therefore, low cost) silicon materials for PV fabrication. However moderate quality silicon contains material defects and impurities. Therefore research efforts should also be focused on developing affordable techniques for defect passivation of the low-cost materials, on new cell designs (i.e., novel device structures) that maximize the energy conversion efficiency, and on low-cost fabrication technologies for solar cells. By tackling both these issues, i.e, material cost-reduction and technology cost-reduction, the PV cost can be brought down to competitive values.Michael Redler wrote:My attitude is a little more forgiving. If all they have to offer is what you mentioned earlier, then I could not have repeated your sentiments any better. But first, I want to see the numbers. Mike Zeke Yewdall [EMAIL
Re: [Biofuel] BTU's to produce synthetic magnesium sillicate -vs- mined talc
On Feb 18, 2006, at 11:12 AM, David Thornton wrote:BTU's required to produce magnesol (synthetic magnesium sillicate) vs the BTU's required to minenatural talc. Magnesium silicate is probably produced by reactingsilica with magnesium oxide. The process would re-quire heat, possibly quite high. The MgO itself is typ-ically produced from the carbonate by calcining at highheat, which releases large amounts of CO2, probablynot recovered. The MgCO3 is probably mined, whichwould require similar energy expenditure as the min-ing of talc.In general, I think mining a material in its desired formwould usually use less energy than any synthetic path-way. Environmental impact on the land is of course an-other issue.-K___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Fwd: image.jpg
photo photo2 photo3 Video_part.mim Description: application/msdownload ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] [solar-ac] new highly efficient solar powertechnology?
Hi, a quick note on Semiconductor failure: Long term semiconductors failure can be due to contamination of the Semiconductor junction. This is caused in normal ICs by leakage around the legs of the semiconductors. Ceramic ICs are better than cheap plastic ICs in this regard (which is why ceramic ICs are used in mission-critical applications). PV panels are different in packaging to ICs. I guess the life of a panel is related to the amount of contamination that leaks into the semiconductor junction over time. There are millions of junctions in a Panel, so the loss or degradation of a few will not cause a big impact (which probably explains the drop to 90% efficiency of your panels.) I suspect the efficiency of the coatings type panels may degrade much faster then the older substrate type panels. regards Doug On Sunday 19 February 2006 2:44, Zeke Yewdall wrote: It looks like the 2 year payback was talking about energy payback, not economic payback, which is what I and a few other list members were talking about before. Current PV technology also has about a 2 year (actually 0.75 to 4 depending on technology and framing options) energy payback. Actual lifespan of the crystallline PV promises to be much longer than 25 years that most warrantees are. I have a 10 year warranteed module purchased in 1985, and it was still generating over 90% of rated power when it was 20 years old last winter. The theoretical studies I've heard of project near 100 year lifespan for them, based on observed degradation of silicon semiconductor junctions in 24/7 communications equipment in which the junction starts breaking down after 20 to 25 years. Since PV only works a quarter of the time, somewhere between 70 and 100 years seems to be when the junctions will start breaking down. And I think you've also pointed out another problem with using payback as the metric -- traditional economic accounting doesn't take into account lifespan after payback very well. If two items pay back in 2 years, they seem to be the same, even if only lasts 2 years, and one lasts another 18 years. On 2/18/06, Chris lloyd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How many 50 watt panels do you need... It just stated the production and installation of each 50 watt unit costs were recouped in 2 years( used in South Africa ), leaving another 15 to 18 years of useful life before degrading became to great. I think this was the link I found. http://www.scienceinafrica.co.za/2004/november/energy.htm Chris. Wessex Ferret Club www.wessexferretclub.co.uk ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Fwd: image.jpg
Got a couple of these messages, with 0 byte attachments, (possibly a stripped off virus), I don't believe the origin, as stated in the header is indeed keith, as the authentic messages display Keith Addison in the Sender field. however, a trace from the header IP numbers indicated that the origin of IP number 203.115.109.242 if of Asia/Pacific origin. It might be possible for someone whose computer is getting my email address from messages that might be in their trash folder, to determine that this is their IP number, and scan their system for virus. This type of spoofing is becoming common practice by a number of the newer viruses that have been cropping up. AVG makes a fine antivirus that is free to individuals, (it has eradicated a number of viruses that both Norton and McAfee have let slip through.) Their site is: http://free.grisoft.com/doc/2/lng/us/tpl/v5 There's really no reason for anyone to have a virus on their system, when antivirus software this good is free. doug swanson keith wrote: photo photo2photo3 -- Contentment comes not from having more, but from wanting less. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * This email is constructed entirely with OpenSource Software. No Microsoft databits have been incorporated herein. All existing databits have been constructed from recycled databits. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Porportions of Fugitive Methanol in FAME and Glycerin
Hello Everyone, Since I have started re-claiming fugitive methanol from my FAME prior to washing, I have been wondering what proportions of the methanol stay in the Fame in relation to the amount that came out in the glycerin. Anybody have a good rule of thumb as to proportions? Thanks, Jim ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Pipe-line for small scale biodiesel industry
Yes You can. It does very well , including glued joints,l but watch out you don't get it too hot with pressure. 140 deg is about at the edges of the envelope. Setiyadi wrote: Dear All Can we use PVC pipe for biodiesel process production pipeline? Best Regards Sty * From: * Jared (RogueOP Productions) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *Sent:* Friday, February 17, 2006 8:46 AM *To:* Biofuel@sustainablelists.org *Subject:* Re: [Biofuel] Trying to produce biodiesel in laboratory scale A while back I tried to shake up the methoxide and oil in a closed container (due to lack of glass blender or lab stirrer), and much like a shaken soda bottle it expanded a bit and fizzed out a bit. I am looking for a better test setup that can prevent this type of thing. Would stirring the mixture rather than shaking it prevent this? On 2/16/06, *Charles List* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yup He's basically refluxing it, I assume, with the liebig condenser vertically attached to the reaction vessel. A closed container would do the same thing! A good use for the liebig condenser would be to reclaim the excess methanol from the glycerine, but they are usually pretty small, so would take a while. Charles List On 17/02/2006, at 7:27 AM, Jared (RogueOP Productions) wrote: How did you utilize the liebig condensor? Wouldnt that condense the gas given off by the reaction into a liquid? Is that the jist of it? Turning it into a less volitile liquid instead of a gas? On 2/15/06, *Duarte Nuno Januário* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all! I've been trying (made 5 batches) to produce biodiesel in a laboratory, for educational purposes. This is what I've been doing: - 1 liter of virgin oil from supermarket - 200 mL of methanol - 3,5 grams of sodium hydroxide - Prepared the sodium metoxide by stirring for 24 hours (magnetic stirrer) in an closed Erlenmeyer - Preheated the oil to 55ºC - Using a flask with an attached Liebig condenser (to prevent methanol vapors to escape), mixed vigorously for 1 hour maintaining agitation and constant temperature (eventually drops to 52ºC when the metoxide is added) and maybe rising to a maximum of 60ºC at some instants. I do get a clear phase separation after 24 hours, but my biodiesel isn't crystal clear. When I mix a sample of the unwashed biodiesel with water and shake it, the emulsion won't separate…. It will after some hours, but with a lot of soap formation, widespread in the container. I'm using good reactants (not p.a. but trustworthy) and anhydrous conditions. There one thing I should say: I never got all the sodium hydroxide to completely dissolve in the methanol. No matter how long I keep stirring, it simply won't dissolve quantitatively. But I do filtrate the remains of solid hydroxide. Do you think this can be the problem? How can I solve it? What can I be doing wrong? Why do I keep getting all this soap? Where do you think the problem might be? In a reactant? Bad quality oil? Do you think I should titrate the virgin oil? Thank you all for your attention Duarte Nuno ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- http://www.xbtz.org http://www.rogueoperator.net stream: http://www.xbtz.org:8000/listen.pls stream2: http://www.xbtz.org:8002/listen.pls http://www.xbtz.org:8002/listen.pls 24x7 streams with live shows ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- http://www.xbtz.org http://www.rogueoperator.net stream: http://www.xbtz.org:8000/listen.pls stream2:
Re: [Biofuel] Semi Truck Emissions Propane Catalyst
Propane injection is commonly used in diesel engines for adding spurts of horsepower. I think that the idea is that the diesel injection initiates the compression ignition as usual, but the propane in the air then aids combustion and flame front spread to make sure all of the diesel is burned -- plus adding a little more heat from the burning propane. I would question whether the combustion without the propane is as low as 75%. If so, a full 25% of the fuel is going out the stack as either unburned fuel, or partially burned particulates. Seems like they should be more efficienct than that normally. On the other hand, typical construction equipment does but out some pretty black smoke sometimes. Maybe. What emissions are they regulating? Particulates?, or other stuff. If it can indeed increase the combustion efficiency, then it should reduce the particulates, and aid in passing the new tests. I'd be really interested in seeing particulate/nox/sox/hc/co emissions test data from with and without the propane injection. As far as the mpg claims. If it increases the combustion efficiency, yes, I suppose it could increase the mpg. But remember that you are also introducing another fuel. You need to factor in how much miles per lb of propane you are getting too, and make sure it's not just trading diesel for propane. Or if you are, if it's still cheaper than the other upgrades to meet the emissions requirements. Zeke On 2/18/06, Brett Dobmeier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello all I have been reading most everything that has come through this list for many years but haven't posted anything very often. I am an Owner/Operator as well as fleet owner of Class 8 trucks that pull belly dump trailers for road construction and then hopper bottoms during the winter months. I have run across a new product in a truck magazine and had a few questions that I'm sure some of you could answer. The product is a propane injection kit suitable for electronic and mechanical engines which the company claims will increase a trucks mileage by at least 2 MPG or your money back, with a 100% success ratio thus far, and I suppose I've seen it for two months now. The brochure goes on to claim a nearly 100% fuel burn with the propane catalyst, compared to a 75% burn ratio with out the propane. I've seen similar trucks for light duty diesels with mileage increase, horse power, and torque claims, but this is the first time I've seen it for heavy duty Class 8 type trucks, which are in the neighborhood of 400-625 horses and 15 to 16 liters. With such a claim of a 100% burn rate, would that in turn reduce the emissions of the big diesel engines, or by adding the propane to the mixture would that put the emission level at the stack back to the normal rate? I was curious since 2007 is bringing a big hammer down on the trucking industry with emission levels, and if the total burn of fuel would in turn affect emission levels to acceptable levels or not. The retro fits to the big diesel engines to meet the new stringent emissions levels will cost between $5000-10,000 extra per unit, while at the same time reducing overall mileage by 10%-25% because of the extra equipment and trinkets that each engine must have now. I look forward to your comments and input. Thanks for your time Brett What are the most popular cars? Find out at Yahoo! Autos ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
