Re: [Biofuel] CEI runs PRO CARBON DIOXIDE ADS
Hi John Keith, An anti-Che Guevara or Pro-Ronald Reagan T-shirt would certainly get plenty of attention in my social circles -- I might just have to get one. Now, that celebrate diversity shirt is choice. I might have to actually pick one of those up. -John Aarghh! What have I done?? LOL! How about Hillary is a commie rat, can you find a use for that one? Or Anne Coulter maybe? Ulp, imagine waking up in the morning and finding such a scary lady lying next to you with her makeup coming off and her teeth in a glass. Or does she keep them sheathed like Christopher Lee. Which scary lady? I dunno, you choose. D'you think Those Shirts will give me a finder's fee? What would be the poetic thing to do with it if they did? Hard to get a laugh out of some of the military ones though. :-( Best Keith On May 24, 2006, at 2:22 PM, Keith Addison wrote: John Beale wrote: snip I was thinking of getting one of their T-shirts and wearing it around, except that they aren't at all subtle. You can get a great T-shirt at Rx's website www.thepartyparty.com It has a pic of Dick Cheney and says Dick is a killernot so subtle either but IMHO we are beyond subtleties at this point! :) I'm wearing mine today! There are some great songs there too. I particularly like KGBTV and Who's the Nigga The HIV/AIDS one is just sobering, no humour there, and Imagine is extremely clever. I wish I was that good with a wave editor! Hey why don't we have a biofuels t shirt? Naah - try one of these: http://thoseshirts.com/ Those Shirts - conservative t-shirts Keith Cheers Joe ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] MaGnesol is... was Re: Manesol pretreatment and washing
Very nice Todd. The end result of this biodiesel washing with Magnesol is that you will have used a lot of water and a lot of time. Me thinks they need a proof reader. LOL! Methinks they do. Would you agree that such slips are telling? Just circumstantial evidence, but still. There is a problem, it's much more difficult to get 100% accurate proofreading onscreen than on paper (you can probably find typos at JtF too). But that stray Magnesol in there is just sloppy, what else is sloppy? Something to add might be whether Magnesol really does give the same results. If it's time-saving that's the aim there are ways round that without becoming more dependent on anyone. I don't accept it gives better-quality results unless maybe you're starting with a poorly completed product, in which case the magnesol is just masking the problem (like mist-washing). You can easily get within the standard specs with well-made homebrew biodiesel plus a few hours spent stir-washing it. If you GC'd the result and compared it with a sample of the same batch of homebrew dry-washed with Magnesol, what would it show? Has anybody seen such results? Best Keith The presumption is made that the following is from Dallas Group's PR about Magnesol. .. Water in biodiesel is not a good idea. Most people would agree this is a true statement. Dohhh!!! Perhaps that's why it's removed? Yet most people continue to wash their biodiesel with water, and then go on to dry their biodiesel after washing. The end result of this biodiesel washing with Magnesol is that you will have used a lot of water and a lot of time. Me thinks they need a proof reader. That and they conveniently(?) neglect to mention that use of Magnesol uses a lot of Magnesol and probably some rather hefty energy inputs. On the Magnesol side: A) Magnesol is not universal. B) Use of Magnesol marries the manufacturer to a vendor. C) Rather costly filter presses are required to remove Magnesol from the fuel stream. D) Expended Magnesol must be handled as a solid waste, inclusive of the filtrate. E) Energy expenditures are required to manufacture and transport synthetic magnesium silicate (Magnesol). As a parenthetical aside, suggestion has been made and perhaps research conducted on feeding the expended Magnesol (sodium silicate) with filtrate to livestock. Soap, glycerol, FFA, mono- and di-glyceride laden sodium silicate as animal feed. Positively yummy, no doubt. This seems almost reminiscent of the days when feeding cement dust to livestock was not abnormal. On the water side: A) Water is universal, by and large. B) Water has a dual utility, as easily treated wash water can be reused as gray water irrigation. C) Acid/Base systems don't require inordinate amounts of water (or Magnesol for that matter). There is an extra heating cycle in a water wash system than a dry wash (Magnesol). Both flash the methanol from the fuel prior to washing. But the water wash system requires elevating from wash temperature to flash temperature. Both systems can use the heat recovered from their final flash to preheat the feedstock. This is where the energy equation between the two systems should be constructed to see precisely which uses more energy - manufacturing, transporting, filtering and disposing of Magnesol or elevating the temperature of the cooled, wet-washed, fuel to flash temp. Doubtful that Dallas Group would divulge their energy expenditures from manufacturing. All in all they both have their place. Neither is necessarily superior over the other. Todd Swearingen Bruno M. wrote: Magnesol, with a G in it, and not Manesol like in the title ;-) is used in the US to clear ( resfresh) frying oil and makes it last longer. It's produced by the Dallas Group of America Inc. www.dallasgrp.com/ It's simply a synthetic Magnesium Silicate, sold as an absorbent filter aid. They say: MAGNESOL® XL keeps shortening clean and free from impurities, which reduces the build-up of off-flavor, off-odors and color in used shortening. Shortening retains its fresh quality, lasts longer and fried products are always light, crisp and golden delicious. pr And in this PDF: www.dallasgrp.com/biodiesel.pdf you'll find on page 2 their analysis from BD cleaned with Magnesol compared to water washing. So, original made for refreshing fryer oil, it's not new in de BD world, the dallasgroup itself has already found in BD a new market and, this UK commercial site www.ukfueltech.com/ about BD tells ...: ~~ www.ukfueltech.com/biodiesel-magnesol-dry-washing.htm Magnesol - dry wash biodiesel clean Water in biodiesel is not a good idea. Most people would agree this is a true statement. Yet most people continue to wash their biodiesel with water, and then go on to dry their biodiesel after washing. The end result of
Re: [Biofuel] MaGnesol is... was Re: Manesol pretreatment and washing
Keith Addison wrote: Very nice Todd. The end result of this biodiesel washing with Magnesol is that you will have used a lot of water and a lot of time. Me thinks they need a proof reader. LOL! Methinks they do. Would you agree that such slips are telling? Just circumstantial evidence, but still. There is a problem, it's much more difficult to get 100% accurate proofreading onscreen than on paper (you can probably find typos at JtF too). But that stray Magnesol in there is just sloppy, what else is sloppy? Something to add might be whether Magnesol really does give the same results. If it's time-saving that's the aim there are ways round that without becoming more dependent on anyone. I don't accept it gives better-quality results unless maybe you're starting with a poorly completed product, in which case the magnesol is just masking the problem (like mist-washing). You can easily get within the standard specs with well-made homebrew biodiesel plus a few hours spent stir-washing it. If you GC'd the result and compared it with a sample of the same batch of homebrew dry-washed with Magnesol, what would it show? Has anybody seen such results? Best Keith The presumption is made that the following is from Dallas Group's PR about Magnesol. .. Water in biodiesel is not a good idea. Most people would agree this is a true statement. Dohhh!!! Perhaps that's why it's removed? Yet most people continue to wash their biodiesel with water, and then go on to dry their biodiesel after washing. The end result of this biodiesel washing with Magnesol is that you will have used a lot of water and a lot of time. Me thinks they need a proof reader. That and they conveniently(?) neglect to mention that use of Magnesol uses a lot of Magnesol and probably some rather hefty energy inputs. On the Magnesol side: A) Magnesol is not universal. B) Use of Magnesol marries the manufacturer to a vendor. C) Rather costly filter presses are required to remove Magnesol from the fuel stream. D) Expended Magnesol must be handled as a solid waste, inclusive of the filtrate. E) Energy expenditures are required to manufacture and transport synthetic magnesium silicate (Magnesol). As a parenthetical aside, suggestion has been made and perhaps research conducted on feeding the expended Magnesol (sodium silicate) with filtrate to livestock. Soap, glycerol, FFA, mono- and di-glyceride laden sodium silicate as animal feed. Positively yummy, no doubt. This seems almost reminiscent of the days when feeding cement dust to livestock was not abnormal. On the water side: A) Water is universal, by and large. B) Water has a dual utility, as easily treated wash water can be reused as gray water irrigation. C) Acid/Base systems don't require inordinate amounts of water (or Magnesol for that matter). There is an extra heating cycle in a water wash system than a dry wash (Magnesol). Both flash the methanol from the fuel prior to washing. But the water wash system requires elevating from wash temperature to flash temperature. Both systems can use the heat recovered from their final flash to preheat the feedstock. This is where the energy equation between the two systems should be constructed to see precisely which uses more energy - manufacturing, transporting, filtering and disposing of Magnesol or elevating the temperature of the cooled, wet-washed, fuel to flash temp. Doubtful that Dallas Group would divulge their energy expenditures from manufacturing. All in all they both have their place. Neither is necessarily superior over the other. Todd Swearingen Bruno M. wrote: The main reason I am trying out Magnesol is because it is going to be MUCH easier to integrate into my continuous process than water washing. I saw some test data from Biodiesel magazine (March 2005), which compared 2 samples. One was water washed and one was Magnesol washed, the test results from the Magnesol washed sample were superior. Have you done any tests with Magnesol to come to your conclusion that it is inferior to water washing? Have you evidence that these results are indeed incorrect, or doctored in any way? Where I live the only water I have available is heavily treated to be potable and it is currently getting scarse (Drought orders are already in effect in South England, the last time this happened was in the 70's) So personally if I can find a way around utilising a scarce and precious commodity then I will try it, is that not why we are here! I have nowhere at my workplace to collect rainwater and it would be unrealistic to transport water collected at home to my workplace where I process my diesel! Extracts from the said article: IOWA STATE UNIVERSITY OF SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY College of Engineering Mechanical Engineering Department 2025 Black
Re: [Biofuel] MaGnesol is... was Re: Manesol pretreatment and washing
You seem rather cross, Chris. Magnesol washed sample were superior. Have you done any tests with Magnesol to come to your conclusion that it is inferior to water washing? Have you evidence that these results are indeed incorrect, or doctored in any way? I reached no such conclusion. I expressed a valid doubt and asked for some evidence. The burden of proof is not on me nor on the consumer when the makers of a commercial product make claims for it, it's on them. You're siding with risk assessment, we go by the Precautionary Principle here, we ask questions, and is that not why we are here!. Where I live the only water I have available is heavily treated to be potable and it is currently getting scarse (Drought orders are already in effect in South England, the last time this happened was in the 70's) So personally if I can find a way around utilising a scarce and precious commodity then I will try it, is that not why we are here! Who's trying to stop you? On the other hand, as we all know or should by now, the water resource you'd be using need not be wasted, and I'm afraid I have to ask whether you use a flush toilet that uses fresh water? You've provided us with one reason anyway for using Magnesol (presuming it passes the other hurdles Todd mentioned, and me), and you've also offered some test results below, which is what I asked for though I haven't read them yet, so what's the problem? Isn't that why we're here? Would you say that you've reached a stage with learning the process where you can easily make homebrew biodiesel yourself that gets within the standard specs with a few hours spent stir-washing it so you can do some comparative tests yourself? I didn't get the impression that was established with the results you gave us, please correct me if I'm wrong. Best Keith Keith Addison wrote: Very nice Todd. The end result of this biodiesel washing with Magnesol is that you will have used a lot of water and a lot of time. Me thinks they need a proof reader. LOL! Methinks they do. Would you agree that such slips are telling? Just circumstantial evidence, but still. There is a problem, it's much more difficult to get 100% accurate proofreading onscreen than on paper (you can probably find typos at JtF too). But that stray Magnesol in there is just sloppy, what else is sloppy? Something to add might be whether Magnesol really does give the same results. If it's time-saving that's the aim there are ways round that without becoming more dependent on anyone. I don't accept it gives better-quality results unless maybe you're starting with a poorly completed product, in which case the magnesol is just masking the problem (like mist-washing). You can easily get within the standard specs with well-made homebrew biodiesel plus a few hours spent stir-washing it. If you GC'd the result and compared it with a sample of the same batch of homebrew dry-washed with Magnesol, what would it show? Has anybody seen such results? Best Keith The presumption is made that the following is from Dallas Group's PR about Magnesol. .. Water in biodiesel is not a good idea. Most people would agree this is a true statement. Dohhh!!! Perhaps that's why it's removed? Yet most people continue to wash their biodiesel with water, and then go on to dry their biodiesel after washing. The end result of this biodiesel washing with Magnesol is that you will have used a lot of water and a lot of time. Me thinks they need a proof reader. That and they conveniently(?) neglect to mention that use of Magnesol uses a lot of Magnesol and probably some rather hefty energy inputs. On the Magnesol side: A) Magnesol is not universal. B) Use of Magnesol marries the manufacturer to a vendor. C) Rather costly filter presses are required to remove Magnesol from the fuel stream. D) Expended Magnesol must be handled as a solid waste, inclusive of the filtrate. E) Energy expenditures are required to manufacture and transport synthetic magnesium silicate (Magnesol). As a parenthetical aside, suggestion has been made and perhaps research conducted on feeding the expended Magnesol (sodium silicate) with filtrate to livestock. Soap, glycerol, FFA, mono- and di-glyceride laden sodium silicate as animal feed. Positively yummy, no doubt. This seems almost reminiscent of the days when feeding cement dust to livestock was not abnormal. On the water side: A) Water is universal, by and large. B) Water has a dual utility, as easily treated wash water can be reused as gray water irrigation. C) Acid/Base systems don't require inordinate amounts of water (or Magnesol for that matter). There is an extra heating cycle in a water wash system than a dry wash (Magnesol). Both flash the methanol from the fuel prior to washing. But the water wash system requires elevating from wash temperature to flash temperature. Both systems can use
Re: [Biofuel] MaGnesol is... was Re: Manesol pretreatment and washing
Appal Energy wrote: B) Use of Magnesol marries the manufacturer to a vendor. I believe there are alternative brands of synthetic magnesium silicate on the market, several at a lower cost. I am currently looking into this, several posts on online forums suggest this also. C) Rather costly filter presses are required to remove Magnesol from the fuel stream. Not exactly. A cheap and readlily available sock filter and gravity will do the trick with very little investment. There are commercially available filter units which are big bucks, but in the spirit of the JTF site I doubt many people here would have any difficulty in suspending a 5 micron sock filter over a collecting drum. Wont look as nice as a commercially bought stainless filter unit, but thats not always an issue. The units I have seen in the commercial sector are simply a stainelss enclosure taking a £9.99 for 10 sock filter and a pump. D) Expended Magnesol must be handled as a solid waste, inclusive of the filtrate. The manufacturer claims disposal by composting, the filters are non consumable. E) Energy expenditures are required to manufacture and transport synthetic magnesium silicate (Magnesol). As they are to treat and pump water, and to treat sewerage. I agree it would be nice to know the true energy costs, but where do you stop? I remember at Uni reading a paper about nuclear power stations. A group of students started doing energy calculations, adding up everything it took to run a power plant (and I mean everything!!) right down to the fuel used to transport materials to the brickworks to make the bricks to build the plant! They concluded that they couldnt possibly have factored in all the energy, but on what they had it was something like a 25-30 year running time before the break even point was reached!! On the water side: A) Water is universal, by and large. Tell that to those people in S England who face having theirs turned off soon! ;-)) B) Water has a dual utility, as easily treated wash water can be reused as gray water irrigation. Assuming that you are in the situation where you need irrigation, if not then it is going to get drained. Not being critical of your comments at all, just factoring in my situation, which is probably the same as many here. I have nothing else to do with my wash water but to put it down the drain. All in all they both have their place. Neither is necessarily superior over the other. I agree. As I have said, I am aiming to get a small scale semi-continuous process online soon to process the WVO of a small group of people. I feel this will be beneficial over lots of small processor running individually. Integrating magnesol washing it going to be far easier than integrating water washing as every gallon squirt out of the processor could be dosed with magnesol, mixed for a number of minuites then dumped into a tank to be gravity fed through a filter bag. Todd Swearingen Bruno M. wrote: Magnesol, with a G in it, and not Manesol like in the title ;-) Sorry for the typo! is used in the US to clear ( resfresh) frying oil and makes it last longer. Erm, sorry you have lost me, what is resfresh? ;-) The end result of this biodiesel washing with Magnesol is that you will have used a lot of water and a lot of time. I see, this error that was mentioned earlier (magnesol not water) was on the website of a third party distributor of Magnesol, not from Magnesol themselves. I was getting a bit woried there for a moment with all the mention of 'sloppyness'. ;-) Chris.. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Government's role in society.
True. But, I'm not sure I see your point Jim. Mike JJJN wrote: I am not sure of this but in the beginning didn't the Constitution require that the Government was to be funded by buisness and trade? And did not the victory tax come to be our first income tax? Jim Mike Weaver wrote: We've been through similar periods before...railroads, steel, Standard oil, Airlines... Michael Redler wrote: Jim wrote: I really don't mind corporations, and I like to see them make a profit when it means prosperity for all. *Divided World: Rich Live Longer, Poor Die Younger* http://www.commondreams.org/headlines/062900-01.htm Those who want wealth, will have it. Since there is no individual who's work represents hundreds of times the value of his/her employees, you arrive at two simple conclusions - that corporations are a means of building wealth off the backs of others and that those who own those corporations are obsessed with building empires and monuments to themselves, off the backs of others. The size of a corporation is a measure of the ambition to build that empire and monument. The only thing that can fight the devastating effects of corporate greed is public consensus and a movement built from that consensus. The sooner that greed effects public policy and makes enough people suffer, the sooner the public will wake up to what's going on around them and react to it. Mike */JJJN [EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote: I really don't mind corporations, and I like to see them make a profit when it means prosperity for all, I just dont like the powers in Govrnment to be persuaded and corrupted by those profits. Yes this one needs some work, Thanks Jim D. Mindock wrote: Hi Jim, I think number 4 could be dangerous. What if a corporation wanted to withhold their taxes for some reason? I'd modify number 5: 5) Government through representation of the people by the people. to this: 5) Government through representation of only the people, by only the people, for only the people. (No wiggle room on this one) And I'd add another article that strongly limits what is really the root of all our problems, the immoral/unethical, inhumane influence of multinational corporations which now control most of the world's governments and indirectly, their people. This is the elephant in the room, imo. Corporations are not people or a person and deserve no special treatment. The welfare of the people should be paramount to all considerations. In this vein, the environment is part and parcel of the welfare of the people. You can't ignore it or trash it without it coming back to ruin your day, and your life. Corporations, as a rule, don't give a hoot about the environment. We are all stuck on a small planet that is getter more polluted every day. The oceans are loaded with PCBs and mercury. This cannot continue without devastating consequences for all living things. So, an article that explicitly encourages/enforces a healthy environment should, imo, be added. I think it is that important. Peace, D. Mindock - Original Message - From: Doug Younker To: Sent: Monday, May 22, 2006 1:39 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Governments role in society. [snip] ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] hydrogen fuel balls from a gas pump?
Uh huh and what happens when you breathe them? Joe Kirk McLoren wrote: [0]navalynt writes New Scientist reports that the Department of Energy has filed a patent for [1]hydrogen fuel balls. From the article 'The proposed glass microspheres would each be a few millionths of a metre (microns) wide with a hollow center containing specks of palladium. The walls of each sphere would also have pores just a few ten-billionths of a metre in diameter.' They are supposedly safe and small enough to be pumped into a fuel tank in the same manner as gasoline. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Government's role in society.
Jim, Your statement puts all forms of business into one category (i.e. IBM with the village baker) and redirects the discussion toward all forms of trade. This is a direction that I won't be led into. The point I made directly addresses the wealth and power accumulated as human labor becomes a commodity and corporate executives become the beneficiary of that commodity. The less labor costs, the more profit is made. More importantly, when money and power reach the highest levels of government and do so as a representative of businesses who profit from cheap labor, what's left to protect working families? As I said before, corporate executives who are paid hundreds of times more than the salary of their employees, are living proof of the imbalance which big business imposes on a government (supposedly) created to protect all of it's citizens. Mike JJJN wrote: Mike, A Corporation is only a form of a business along with Limited Liability partnerships, a dozen or so hybrid forms and Sole proprietors ships any one is only as good as those that lead it. What is your solution? where do you stop? Ban all forms of trade? I don't like the greed and abuse either, but I am practical enough to understand that not every Corporation is run by an evil twin to Enron. I also understand what you are saying that there need to be much stiffer reforms in place to legislate ethics to those that are running many of them. But some how I just don't have the faith that people will wake up, and if they do I think it will be to late. Jim Michael Redler wrote: Jim wrote: I really don't mind corporations, and I like to see them make a profit when it means prosperity for all. *Divided World: Rich Live Longer, Poor Die Younger* http://www.commondreams.org/headlines/062900-01.htm Those who want wealth, will have it. Since there is no individual who's work represents hundreds of times the value of his/her employees, you arrive at two simple conclusions - that corporations are a means of building wealth off the backs of others and that those who own those corporations are obsessed with building empires and monuments to themselves, off the backs of others. The size of a corporation is a measure of the ambition to build that empire and monument. The only thing that can fight the devastating effects of corporate greed is public consensus and a movement built from that consensus. The sooner that greed effects public policy and makes enough people suffer, the sooner the public will wake up to what's going on around them and react to it. Mike */JJJN [EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote: I really don't mind corporations, and I like to see them make a profit when it means prosperity for all, I just dont like the powers in Govrnment to be persuaded and corrupted by those profits. Yes this one needs some work, Thanks Jim D. Mindock wrote: Hi Jim, I think number 4 could be dangerous. What if a corporation wanted to withhold their taxes for some reason? I'd modify number 5: 5) Government through representation of the people by the people. to this: 5) Government through representation of only the people, by only the people, for only the people. (No wiggle room on this one) And I'd add another article that strongly limits what is really the root of all our problems, the immoral/unethical, inhumane influence of multinational corporations which now control most of the world's governments and indirectly, their people. This is the elephant in the room, imo. Corporations are not people or a person and deserve no special treatment. The welfare of the people should be paramount to all considerations. In this vein, the environment is part and parcel of the welfare of the people. You can't ignore it or trash it without it coming back to ruin your day, and your life. Corporations, as a rule, don't give a hoot about the environment. We are all stuck on a small planet that is getter more polluted every day. The oceans are loaded with PCBs and mercury. This cannot continue without devastating consequences for all living things. So, an article that explicitly encourages/enforces a healthy environment should, imo, be added. I think it is that important. Peace, D. Mindock - Original Message - From: Doug Younker To: Sent: Monday, May 22, 2006 1:39 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Governments role in society. [snip] ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and
Re: [Biofuel] Governments role in society.
It only depends on the character of people in power when the majority of citizens don't participate in decisions effecting their (our) future. We have become such a patriarchal society that we just hope that the character of our leader is to our liking - and that's nauseating. Doug said: ...how do we empower those with decent character?? How do WE BECOME EMPOWERED to remove them when they don't act in our best interest (and without waiting for an election year)? Character alludes to someone with good intentions and a willingness to do the right thing. That doesn't mean they actually know how. When that happens, our society needs to respond and tell government how they could better SERVE US. Mike JJJN wrote: Well I don't know if private or public is the way to go but I think you said it all, when you stated in the end it all depends on, the character of those in power. I completely agree with that statement. No matter how Divine the Design, Cancer can ruin it. Perhaps this is the root cause of our societal ills? (globally). Well I dont have any of the answers I'm the one with all the questions but I think you have nailed the most important one of all. Now how do we empower those with decent character?? Doug Younker wrote: Jim, Interesting that you bring up tribal, whenever a coffee shop commentator states communism is not natural and can never work, I point out that many tribal societies have persevered, until they where discovered by a more powerful force, that is. That force may have been another tribal society, so tribal societies aren't perfect either. Also interesting that you bring up grazing. Here in Kansas a rancher needs to purchase or cash rent pasture, so they are put in a competitive disadvantage with those ranchers who are able to rent public land below market value. Despite that I think you will find few would support raising the rent collected for use of public land to real world values. Because it's the government collecting the rent, they don't stop to consider, they are supposed to be part of the government. Democracy/Republic, Dictatorship, Monarchy; Capitalism, Communism, Socialism, in the end it all depends on, the character of those in power. With that in mind, I'd rather we stay with private ownership. Doug, N0LKK Kansas USA JJJN wrote: Actually I don't know how that form of goevrnment would work as I'm not sure that it has ever existed past or present unless perhaps we look at the tribal governments that did not understand the concept of individual ownership. I do think that it could be acheived and individuals could possibly like it better than any system that they have a comfort zone with. I'm squeemish with the idea a bit as well but I also see Developers raiding privately held land in our society, courts supporting it, Public land being sold off to pay for schools, cattlemen getting public grazing alotments they only pay a pittance for in relation to private holdings. So I don't think our system is as good a one as I used to. I think if the people were in charge they would envelope a system that would be fair and equitable to the poor as well as the priveleged - possibly? If that system were one of private ownership or of public Im not sure but I do know ours is askew of what it should be. Luck, Jim Doug, N0LKK Kansas USA JJJN wrote: I disagree, The land is any nations wealth, when everything else is gone it is the land that will still give. We kid ourselves if we think wealth lies in gold. If you spread the land out to allow ley farming you create an abundance that is not dependant on an unrenewable resource such as modern agriculture. Abundances create trade and trade allows for luxuries. Remember why do you suppose that people came from almost every country on earth in the early days to get free land in this country - to have the opportunity to prosper. What do you think would have happened if there Oil and coal was never discovered? Would we be a nation still a horseback? Not we would have developed technology just the same but it would be along much more sustainable lines. I think Oil and Coal has Derailed our natural progression in an artificial manner. And unless some fool discovers perpetual energy and gives modern man that (then we can give up hope) we will soon learn where we left off. But as some say lets not rest until we have released every carbon atom into air. My best, Jim Doug Younker wrote: [snip] ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
Re: [Biofuel] CEI runs PRO CARBON DIOXIDE ADS
Actually I know this is a bit of a joke but I bought some t-shirts lately. One is a hoody with a silhouette of the shrub and a swastika on his forehead and the caption 'WAR CRIMINAL' another has a pic of the shrub and the caption INTERNATIONAL TERRORIST as well as the Dick is a killer t-shirt I mentioned before. I work in an educational institution so I have to be serious about the impression I make on young minds. I wear these shirts as often as possible. Joe Keith Addison wrote: Hi John Keith, An anti-Che Guevara or Pro-Ronald Reagan T-shirt would certainly get plenty of attention in my social circles -- I might just have to get one. Now, that celebrate diversity shirt is choice. I might have to actually pick one of those up. -John Aarghh! What have I done?? LOL! How about Hillary is a commie rat, can you find a use for that one? Or Anne Coulter maybe? Ulp, imagine waking up in the morning and finding such a scary lady lying next to you with her makeup coming off and her teeth in a glass. Or does she keep them sheathed like Christopher Lee. Which scary lady? I dunno, you choose. D'you think Those Shirts will give me a finder's fee? What would be the poetic thing to do with it if they did? Hard to get a laugh out of some of the military ones though. :-( Best Keith On May 24, 2006, at 2:22 PM, Keith Addison wrote: John Beale wrote: snip I was thinking of getting one of their T-shirts and wearing it around, except that they aren't at all subtle. You can get a great T-shirt at Rx's website www.thepartyparty.com It has a pic of Dick Cheney and says Dick is a killernot so subtle either but IMHO we are beyond subtleties at this point! :) I'm wearing mine today! There are some great songs there too. I particularly like KGBTV and Who's the Nigga The HIV/AIDS one is just sobering, no humour there, and Imagine is extremely clever. I wish I was that good with a wave editor! Hey why don't we have a biofuels t shirt? Naah - try one of these: http://thoseshirts.com/ Those Shirts - conservative t-shirts Keith Cheers Joe ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Police Brutality in Ohio
Kent State only resonates with us old farts. Keith Addison wrote: Todd, Keith, Mike et al List; Kudos still to Keith for even-handed reasonableness. Thankyou Allen. :-) I'm also not a journalist, just a reader; still, i read the whole thing the links (retired, i have lots of time -- like to get the whole flavor of what i taste). It was apparent that this was an angry outraged piece -- i was sure by the end that the frail lady was probably not pure as the driven snow in the encounter, despite her protestations. But still -- she ( her fledgling organization) has citizen's rights, some of them were obviously violated, by organized power holding all the cards stacking the deck. At the very least, she ( the WCW she's part of) are due an apology some redress -- i wonder if they'll get it? I doubt it, but along with the event itself maybe it'll help open a few more eyes to some of the things that are going on in the land that terrorists allegedly hate because of its freedoms. (That's not a sneer, it's a lament.) This incident reminded me of one similar, albeit on a much larger scale, also in Ohio back in the day -- but 4 student activists DIED at Kent State! Thankyou for that too, a point I missed. So much for my geography, I didn't realise Kent State is in Ohio. :-( I was looking at the Kent State news photos the other day: http://may4.org/themes/may4/Filo1sm.jpg And at this too: http://journeytoforever.org/bflpics/flowerpower.jpg Not to bring it down, but it was the basic inspiration for the sunflowers-in-the-tank image on our biofuels pages, much ripped-off and emulated since then - it's not easy to illustrate biofuels! http://journeytoforever.org/media/s/sunflowers.jpg About the silliest copy I saw was this one, by Ed Beggs at PlantDrive/Neoteric, before they replaced it with an Elsbett lookalike logo: http://journeytoforever.org/bflpics/beggspic.jpg LOL! Didn't think I'd ever get a laugh out of Kent State. Supposedly, re-training for Nat'l Guard police came of that -- but a generation has grown old the new one may not have gotten that benefit. Time to revisit? If not for that one then surely for other pressing reasons. If you say Kent State in the US now, does it still carry that connotation? That's all it means to me and I'm sure a great many others, but does it still mean anything in the US, or is it just the name of a college now? If you search for Kent State at Google the 1970 shootings come up at #3. That's encouraging. Regards E. Allen C. P.S. Keith, i owe you the List an apology for muddy writing (about a month ago) -- which you very aptly corrected: i didn't mean biofuel is biofuel is biofuel, but, on re-reading (after getting over the stinging rebuke) that was how it came across -- I'm sorry. What i meant was more like fuel is fuel is fuel, we need to learn how to cure our gluttony for fuel, for the sake of this, our only planet. Verily. I'm sorry it stung, it wasn't intended to, just to redirect. If we'd met in a cafe instead of a workshop I wouldn't have done it that way. Not to say it can't be a cafe too. You're welcome to give me a thumping in return for thinking Kent State is in America is America is America. :-) Thankyou, Allen, for rescuing the subject and putting it back on the rails, police brutality on Ohio. It won't be this current case of course, though hopefully it'll add to the accumulation that's building, but the opposition needs a powerful mobilising and unifying symbol now like Kent State was then. Without the bodies, more than enough bodies already. I don't mean the opposition party, the opposition that Kent State helped to mobilise wasn't a party. It's embarrassing, you try to overthrow the government and you wind up on the Best Seller's List. -- Abbie Hoffman http://www.tenant.net/Community/steal/ Steal This Book Read It! (413k) http://www.tenant.net/Community/steal/steal.html Namaste Keith Namaste Allen --- Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You have to answer the questions who, what, where, when, why and how in the first 25 words. But you seem to expect to find the whole newspaper encapsulated in the front-page lead headline. And there you have it Keith. snip ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
Re: [Biofuel] Bad Stuff is Happening With Chile's Water
Hey Andrew and all; Probably better to go here; http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/946839131?ltl=1148474564 If you want to take action on this (and I hope you do) Joe Andrew Netherton wrote: Dear friends who care about our earth. Judge for yourself if you want to take action. In the Valle de San Felix, the purest water in Chile runs from 2 rivers, fed by 2 glaciers. Water is a most precious resource, and wars will be fought for it. Indigenous farmers use the water, there is no unemployment, and they provide the second largest source of income for the area. Under the glaciers has been found a huge deposit of gold, silver andother minerals. To get at these, it would be necessary to break, to destroy the glaciers - something never conceived of in the history of the world - and to make 2 huge holes, each as big as a whole mountain, one for extraction and one for the mine's rubbish tip. The project is called PASCUA LAMA. The company is called Barrick Gold. The operation is planned by a multi-national company, one of whose members is George Bush Sr. The Chilean Government has approved the project to start this year, 2006. The only reason it hasn't started yet is because the farmers have got a temporary stay of execution. If they destroy the glaciers, they will not just destroy the source of especially pure water, but they will permanently contaminate the 2 rivers so they will never again be fit for human or animal consumption because of the use of cyanide and sulphuric acid in the extraction process. Every last gram of gold will go abroad to the multinational company and not one will be left with the people whose land it is. They will only be left with the poisoned water and the resulting illnesses. The farmers have been fighting a long time for their land, but have been forbidden to make a TV appeal by a ban from the Ministry of the Interior. Their only hope now of putting brakes on this project is to get help from international justice. The world must know what is happening in Chile. The only place to start changing the world is from here. We ask you to circulate this message amongst your friends in the following way. Please copy this text, paste it into a new email adding your signature and send it to everyone in your address book. Please, will the 100th person to receive and sign the petition, send it to [EMAIL PROTECTED] to be forwarded to the Chilean Government. No to Pascua Lama Open-cast mine in the Andean Cordillera on the Chilean-Argentine frontier. We ask the Chilean Government not to authorize the Pascua Lama project to protect the whole of 3 glaciers, the purity of the water of the San Felix Valley and El Transito, the quality of the agricultural land of the region of Atacama, the quality of life of the Diaguita people and of the whole population of the region. Signature, City, Country 1) Katharine Proudfoot, Edinburgh, Scotland, UK 2) Laura Cole, London, UK 3) David Platt, London, UK 4) Diane Platt, Manchester, UK 5) Tanya Corker, Manchester, UK 6) Nicola Hargreaves, UK 7) Nicholas Jones, UK 8) Johann Don-Daniel, Germany 9) Ashley Berger, Germany 10) Sarah Downie, Leeds, UK 11) Paula Delahunty, Bingley, UK 12) John O'Driscoll, Bingley, Uk 13) Jordan-Lee Delahunty, Bingley, UK 14) Claire Mulvey, Bradford, UK 15) Marie Malcolm Bradford, UK 16) Ann Clowes, Halifax UK 17) Jayne McGee, Brighouse UK 18) Jason Barratt Oldham UK 19) Lindsay Torrance, Rochdale UK 20) Maggie Ford, Rochdale, U.K. 21) Barry Cook, Todmorden, U.K. 22) Shelley Burgoyne, Todmorden, U.K. 23) Lisa Stuart, Potes, Spain. 24) Michael Stuart, Potes, Spain. 25) Renee Engl, Byron Bay, Australia 26) Adrian Begg, Brunswick Heads, Australia 27) Riana Begg, Brunswick Heads, Australia 28) Oriel Paterson, Brunswick Heads, Australia 29) Alicia Paterson, Brisbane, Australia 30) Lyneve Robinson, Sydney, Australia 31) Jennifer Moalem, Sydney, Australia 32) Alexandra Pope, Sydney Australia 33) Shushann Movsessian, Sydney Australia 34) Amanda Frost 35) Chris Liddell, AUS 36) Jade Deegan, AUS 37) Jo Satori, AUS 38) Jennie Gorman, Vic AUS 39) Angelique Queensley, Victoria, Can 40)Chrystyanna Queensley, Victoria, Can 41) Dawna Masters, San Miguel De Allende, Mex. 42) John Gillespie, Canada 43) Ross Andersen, Canada 44) Devaki Thomas 45) Andrew Riley Mott, Victoria, Canada 46) Ari Cipes, Kelowna, Canada 47) Ezra Cipes, Kelowna BC, Canada 48) Michael Coutt, Oaxaca City, Mexico 49) Molly Thurston, Canada 50) Cecelia McMorrow, Lindsay, Canada 51) Marlene Callaghan, Reaboro, Ontario, Canada 52) Steve Callaghan, Reaboro, Ontario, Canada 53) Ruth Abernethy, Wellesley, Ontario Canada 54) Mark Smyth Wellesley, Ontario, Canada 55) Andrew Netherton, Waterloo, Ontario, Canada ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Re: [Biofuel] Tin soldiers and Nixon's (second) coming
Mike Weaver wrote: *Tin soldiers and Nixon's* coming, we're finally on our own This summer I hear the drumming, four dead in Ohio and about 10 days later, 2 dead in Jackson State Ms. E. C. wrote: Todd, Keith, Mike et al List; Kudos still to Keith for even-handed reasonableness. I'm also not a journalist, just a reader; still, i read the whole thing the links (retired, i have lots of time -- like to get the whole flavor of what i taste). It was apparent that this was an angry outraged piece -- i was sure by the end that the frail lady was probably not pure as the driven snow in the encounter, despite her protestations. But still -- she ( her fledgling organization) has citizen's rights, some of them were obviously violated, by organized power holding all the cards stacking the deck. At the very least, she ( the WCW she's part of) are due an apology some redress -- i wonder if they'll get it? This incident reminded me of one similar, albeit on a much larger scale, also in Ohio back in the day -- but 4 student activists DIED at Kent State! Supposedly, re-training for Nat'l Guard police came of that -- but a generation has grown old the new one may not have gotten that benefit. Time to revisit? Regards E. Allen C. P.S. Keith, i owe you the List an apology for muddy writing (about a month ago) -- which you very aptly corrected: i didn't mean biofuel is biofuel is biofuel, but, on re-reading (after getting over the stinging rebuke) that was how it came across -- I'm sorry. What i meant was more like fuel is fuel is fuel, we need to learn how to cure our gluttony for fuel, for the sake of this, our only planet. Namaste Allen --- Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You have to answer the questions who, what, where, when, why and how in the first 25 words. But you seem to expect to find the whole newspaper encapsulated in the front-page lead headline. And there you have it Keith. If you can honestly tell me that those questions were sufficently answered at the outset of the article, http://worldcantwait.net/index.php?option=com_contenttask=viewid=1029Itemi then we certainly do have a difference in understanding on how best to capture an audience and communicate an idea expeditiously. And when from the 27th word through about the 2,500th the reader is repeatedly bombarded with editorializing to the tune of This is an outrage! - intended to enlist and incite emotion long before the facts are supplied - not to mention soliciation of donations for a cause that hasn't even been fully described yet, it's a pretty safe bet that it's not going to get any better and the facts probably need to be sought elsewhere. People generally don't like being led around the doggy park by a leash (2,500 words) and told what to think or believe, even if it is from a granola source. If I was after pre-packaged, I'd buy Swansons and watch Fox Knows. Like I mentioned to Mike Weaver, I got tired of the propaganda and stopped scrolling down. I did go to their archives and searched for a little more information. So it can't be said that I had neither interest or initiative. Fault me for not caring for the author's/webmaster's style if you wish. But the point is that if they failed to capture my full attention as someone who has interest in such maladies, then they're probably going to fail to gain the attention of others at an exponential rate. As for Why are you importing the rules of one type of journalism (print) into a discussion that focuses on online information? Do newspapers come with handy word-search engines, for instance? Do you see that rule of journalism much in evidence when it comes to blogs? That thing is a sort of blog. What goes on in the blogosphere is making big huge dents in the mainstream press these days, Do you really think that the general guidelines of good communication should be chucked out the window when it comes to the internet and blogs? There should have been hotlinks pasted throughout their article from nearly sentence one. (Full story on Page 11.) And as a general rule, blogs pretty much give you the 5 dubyas and a how up front. Judging from this exchange, what it seems you haven't been there and done is learnt how to extract information. What it seems is exactly as I've explained. Nothing more and nothing less. I wanted facts and didn't have the patience to wade through a half-ton of blather to get to them. I'm not a speed reader. I'm just an average Joe who likes a straight story, not one well garnished with an endlessly distracting raft of flotsam and jetsom. You've been a web pressman? I know you worked in the old hot-metal press, but not as a journalist.
Re: [Biofuel] CEI runs PRO CARBON DIOXIDE ADS
My current favorite t-shirt says, Dick Cheney before he Dicks you!fredOn 5/25/06, Joe Street [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Actually I know this is a bit of a joke but I bought some t-shirts lately.One is a hoody with a silhouette of the shrub and a swastika onhis forehead and the caption 'WAR CRIMINAL' another has a pic of theshrub and the caption INTERNATIONAL TERRORIST as well as the Dick is a killer t-shirt I mentioned before.I work in an educational institutionso I have to be serious about the impression I make on young minds. Iwear these shirts as often as possible.JoeKeith Addison wrote: Hi JohnKeith,An anti-Che Guevara or Pro-Ronald Reagan T-shirt would certainly getplenty of attention in my social circles -- I might just have to get one. Now, that celebrate diversity shirt is choice. I might have toactually pick one of those up.-John Aarghh! What have I done?? LOL! How about Hillary is a commie rat, can you find a use for that one? Or Anne Coulter maybe? Ulp, imagine waking up in the morning and finding such a scary lady lying next to you with her makeup coming off and her teeth in a glass. Or does she keep them sheathed like Christopher Lee. Which scary lady? I dunno, you choose. D'you think Those Shirts will give me a finder's fee? What would be the poetic thing to do with it if they did? Hard to get a laugh out of some of the military ones though. :-( Best KeithOn May 24, 2006, at 2:22 PM, Keith Addison wrote: John Beale wrote:snipI was thinking of getting one oftheir T-shirts and wearing it around, except that they aren't at all subtle.You can get a great T-shirt at Rx's websitewww.thepartyparty.com It has a pic of Dick Cheney and says Dick is a killernot sosubtleeither but IMHO we are beyond subtleties at this point! :) I'm wearing mine today!There are some great songs there too.I particularly like KGBTV andWho's the NiggaThe HIV/AIDS one is just sobering, no humour there,and Imagine is extremely clever.I wish I was that good with a waveeditor!Hey why don't we have a biofuels t shirt? Naah - try one of these:http://thoseshirts.com/Those Shirts - conservative t-shirtsKeith CheersJoe ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] MaGnesol is... was Re: Manesol pretreatment and washing
When I was talking to the local small pizzeria, he mentioned about the use of some kind of powder that was usedto keep used fryer oil lasting longer. He didn't know the name of it offhand, but stated that he would never use it. I asked him why, and he stated that the food that was cooked in the "refreshed" oildidn't taste the same. The local fire company also asked him about this powder, because the fire company used it one year to try to extend the life of their oil for their fish fry during Lent. They stated that many people were complaining of diarrhea shortly after eating their fish.Nobody could prove(or didn't want to) that it was the powder that was causing this. The local pizzeria vendor told them to just change their oil more frequently and that it was a small price to payfor a little peace of mind. They took his advice and this past year they changed their oil more frequently. As far as I know, there were no, or very few, complaints this year. Would this powder cause "plumbing" problems in individuals? Or would this be due to some other factor?"Bruno M." [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Magnesol,with a G in it, and not Manesol like in the title ;-)is used in the US to clear ( resfresh) frying oil and makes it last longer.It's produced by the "Dallas Group of America Inc." www.dallasgrp.com/It's simply a synthetic Magnesium Silicate, sold as an absorbent filter aid.They say: MAGNESOL® XL keeps shortening clean and free from impurities,which reduces the build-up of off-flavor, off-odors and color in usedshortening. Shortening retains its fresh quality, lasts longer and friedproducts are always light, crisp and golden delicious. prAnd in this PDF: www.dallasgrp.com/biodiesel.pdfyou'll find on page 2 their analysis from BD cleaned with Magnesol compared to water washing.So, original made for refreshing fryer oil, it's not new in de BD world,the dallasgroup itself has already found in BD a new market and,this UK commercial site www.ukfueltech.com/ about BD tells ...:~~ snip___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates.___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Late Night in US
Keith Addison wrote: snip Do you mean this one? http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg62541.html Re: [Biofuel] Torture and/or Nuking Iran -- was Re: Poll in favor of Nuk Why some Americans want to join the Biofuel list and how it's changed. snip I don't think that's one. There is a lot of wisdom that gets bantered back and forth in this group, and sometimes I lose track of who said what. I think you were writing to Todd about the subliminal nature of media control. I've been listening more for underlying assumptions in the press coverage, and I'm hearing it all the time now. (Blame is better to give than receive . . .) Most recent desafinado reason for wanting to join the list, or for doing biofuels generally, is what Bush said about America's oil addiction and freeing the US from its dependence on foreign oil. It seems to encapsulate all the previous disconnects about terrorists and Arabs and so on. Quite often when they write to us they tell us things like this: "Just like you, we are dedicated to building a better future for our country..." That tickles me, though I suppose I am dedicated to that, along with the other 191 countries, or at least the people who live in them, and the rest of the planet too. This is where the insulation of living in a very large and heavily populated nation serves as a disadvantage. Many Americans have never traveled extensively or lived outside of the United States, and the further inland I go, the more prevalent this "sheltering from the rest of the world" becomes. In addition, as we've discussed before, the myths of US benevolence and goodness are quite pervasive among my fellow citizens. The degree to which this is true becomes evident when discussing "why THEY hate us". I've often encountered a zeal that far surpasses religious fervor when talking about the problems with US foreign policy. Yours is a far more international and inclusive perspective. As an American, I like to think people can solve their own problems within their own communities and outsiders should stay OUT, unless these outsiders have been specifically asked for help, as in the case with a natural disaster. When this idea gets extended to the national borders the natural tendency to distinguish between US and THEM leads to this very strange, childlike polarization we see among some of the people who've posted here in the past. They're not too good at getting things right. Look at this one, just received: Hello Kieth and Midori, I am contacting you to ask you to help us spread the word about alternative fuels. My name is David Bernstein and I am the technical advisor for http://www.beyondfossilfuel.com/. We have just launched our new site and are looking for some industry leading sites to help announce its launch. Beyond Fossil Fuel is a site dedicated to spreading the word about alternative fuels/energy such as ethanol, biodiesel, hydrogen and more. We will be following all changes in the landscape of fuel and energy and try to provide the best resources for those looking to learn more. Is there anyway you could link to our site or help announce beyondfossilfuel.com's launch? Just like you, we are dedicated to building a better future for our country and spreading the word is a great place to start. Thank you, David Bernstein Technical Advisor http://www.beyondfossilfuel.com/ It's sad, isn't it? I mean, the guy can't even spell your name correctly, yet he thinks he's got the "solution" to "turning away from the dependence on foreign fossil fuel by developing our own energy sources". I read through the site and found NOTHING about conservation and lifestyle adjustments, nothing about addressing food miles, sustainable agriculture, gardening and other activities that would REALLY make a difference. It seems geared toward elementary students who view the world as if one energy resource can be directly substituted for another. This kind of simplistic thinking solves NOTHING. I recall a conversation with a certain family member who wanted to buy a gasoline generator during the California electricity crunch, believing this would "solve" the problem. No amount of rational arguing could persuade this person to understand that mere substitution doesn't address the underlying issue that we use WAY more energy than is necessary. We're waiting for Toyota to deliver our new hybrid-electric Camry. Our family members aren't saying a whole lot about this, but I can tell by tone of voice and facial _expression_ that they think I'm crazy to buy an "expensive, untested technology". (It's no more expensive than the V6 model, and for the "around town" driving that now characterizes our driving--since I gave up my "career" position and now work out of my home--the hybrid electric seems most suitable.) The reason nobody says anything to me about this centers on the fact that there isn't a single,
Re: [Biofuel] Police Brutality in Ohio
Keith asked below: If you say Kent State in the US now, does it still carry that connotation? That's all it means to me and I'm sure a great many others, but does it still mean anything in the US, or is it just the name of a college now? Keith, The younger generations under say about 45 years now were to young or not born yet to remember it and it is rarely if ever discussed now. Most of them have never heard of Kent State. I actually still have an authentic Kent State T-Shirt, but unfortunately it is about 6 sizes to small for me now. My older brother was teaching Physics at Ohio State Univ back in those days and sent me one here in Houston when I was barely a teenager (8th-9th grade?) anxiously waiting for my turn in the meat grinder when I turned 18. How quickly we forget. Related story, example: I was taking a college physics class back in 1992 when the professor starting talking about, remembering the day we landed on the moon, in 1969. He was astonished at all the 20 year old blank stares in the class (except mine, as I was 14 at the time in 1969, and I was the only 37 year old student in the class) and he realized they had not been born yet back in 1969. Most of them did not even know that we had ever landed on the MOON!!! Part of the problem is that the high school and grade school curriculum here lags behind by about 30 years (text books, bureaucracy, oversight...) and these kids totally miss the most recent history of the prior 10 to 25 years. They might hear of Kent State in a college ethics class from a thesis presentation if their lucky. I was a bit young then, but as I recall it was a major, MAJOR turning point and public awaking in this country as a result of the Kent State Massacre (as I recall that is what we called it then). National TV coverage of it played an important part in it too. Best, Mike McGinness -Original Message- From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: May 25, 2006 1:33 AM To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Police Brutality in Ohio Todd, Keith, Mike et al List; Kudos still to Keith for even-handed reasonableness. Thankyou Allen. :-) I'm also not a journalist, just a reader; still, i read the whole thing the links (retired, i have lots of time -- like to get the whole flavor of what i taste). It was apparent that this was an angry outraged piece -- i was sure by the end that the frail lady was probably not pure as the driven snow in the encounter, despite her protestations. But still -- she ( her fledgling organization) has citizen's rights, some of them were obviously violated, by organized power holding all the cards stacking the deck. At the very least, she ( the WCW she's part of) are due an apology some redress -- i wonder if they'll get it? I doubt it, but along with the event itself maybe it'll help open a few more eyes to some of the things that are going on in the land that terrorists allegedly hate because of its freedoms. (That's not a sneer, it's a lament.) This incident reminded me of one similar, albeit on a much larger scale, also in Ohio back in the day -- but 4 student activists DIED at Kent State! Thankyou for that too, a point I missed. So much for my geography, I didn't realise Kent State is in Ohio. :-( I was looking at the Kent State news photos the other day: http://may4.org/themes/may4/Filo1sm.jpg And at this too: http://journeytoforever.org/bflpics/flowerpower.jpg Not to bring it down, but it was the basic inspiration for the sunflowers-in-the-tank image on our biofuels pages, much ripped-off and emulated since then - it's not easy to illustrate biofuels! http://journeytoforever.org/media/s/sunflowers.jpg About the silliest copy I saw was this one, by Ed Beggs at PlantDrive/Neoteric, before they replaced it with an Elsbett lookalike logo: http://journeytoforever.org/bflpics/beggspic.jpg LOL! Didn't think I'd ever get a laugh out of Kent State. Supposedly, re-training for Nat'l Guard police came of that -- but a generation has grown old the new one may not have gotten that benefit. Time to revisit? If not for that one then surely for other pressing reasons. If you say Kent State in the US now, does it still carry that connotation? That's all it means to me and I'm sure a great many others, but does it still mean anything in the US, or is it just the name of a college now? If you search for Kent State at Google the 1970 shootings come up at #3. That's encouraging. Regards E. Allen C. P.S. Keith, i owe you the List an apology for muddy writing (about a month ago) -- which you very aptly corrected: i didn't mean biofuel is biofuel is biofuel, but, on re-reading (after getting over the stinging rebuke) that was how it came across -- I'm sorry. What i meant was more like fuel is fuel is fuel, we need to learn how to cure our gluttony for fuel, for the sake of this, our only planet. Verily. I'm sorry it stung, it wasn't intended to,
Re: [Biofuel] hydrogen fuel balls from a gas pump?
I guess we will all just have a BALL, LOL. OK, I guess it's not really funny after all. GOOD Question I just wrote a published paper late last year on the hazards of NanoTech particles on just this sort of item. Mike McGinness Joe Street wrote: Uh huh and what happens when you breathe them? Joe Kirk McLoren wrote: [0]navalynt writes New Scientist reports that the Department of Energy has filed a patent for [1]hydrogen fuel balls. From the article 'The proposed glass microspheres would each be a few millionths of a metre (microns) wide with a hollow center containing specks of palladium. The walls of each sphere would also have pores just a few ten-billionths of a metre in diameter.' They are supposedly safe and small enough to be pumped into a fuel tank in the same manner as gasoline. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Bad Stuff is Happening With Chile's Water
-Ursprungliche Nachricht- Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Auftrag von Joe Street Gesendet: Donnerstag, 25. Mai 2006 15:35 An: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Betreff: Re: [Biofuel] Bad Stuff is Happening With Chile's Water Hey Andrew and all; Probably better to go here; http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/946839131?ltl=1148474564 If you want to take action on this (and I hope you do) Joe Andrew Netherton wrote: Dear friends who care about our earth. Judge for yourself if you want to take action. In the Valle de San Felix, the purest water in Chile runs from 2 rivers, fed by 2 glaciers. Water is a most precious resource, and wars will be fought for it. Indigenous farmers use the water, there is no unemployment, and they provide the second largest source of income for the area. Under the glaciers has been found a huge deposit of gold, silver andother minerals. To get at these, it would be necessary to break, to destroy the glaciers - something never conceived of in the history of the world - and to make 2 huge holes, each as big as a whole mountain, one for extraction and one for the mine's rubbish tip. The project is called PASCUA LAMA. The company is called Barrick Gold. The operation is planned by a multi-national company, one of whose members is George Bush Sr. The Chilean Government has approved the project to start this year, 2006. The only reason it hasn't started yet is because the farmers have got a temporary stay of execution. If they destroy the glaciers, they will not just destroy the source of especially pure water, but they will permanently contaminate the 2 rivers so they will never again be fit for human or animal consumption because of the use of cyanide and sulphuric acid in the extraction process. Every last gram of gold will go abroad to the multinational company and not one will be left with the people whose land it is. They will only be left with the poisoned water and the resulting illnesses. The farmers have been fighting a long time for their land, but have been forbidden to make a TV appeal by a ban from the Ministry of the Interior. Their only hope now of putting brakes on this project is to get help from international justice. The world must know what is happening in Chile. The only place to start changing the world is from here. We ask you to circulate this message amongst your friends in the following way. Please copy this text, paste it into a new email adding your signature and send it to everyone in your address book. Please, will the 100th person to receive and sign the petition, send it to [EMAIL PROTECTED] to be forwarded to the Chilean Government. No to Pascua Lama Open-cast mine in the Andean Cordillera on the Chilean-Argentine frontier. We ask the Chilean Government not to authorize the Pascua Lama project to protect the whole of 3 glaciers, the purity of the water of the San Felix Valley and El Transito, the quality of the agricultural land of the region of Atacama, the quality of life of the Diaguita people and of the whole population of the region. Signature, City, Country 1) Katharine Proudfoot, Edinburgh, Scotland, UK 2) Laura Cole, London, UK 3) David Platt, London, UK 4) Diane Platt, Manchester, UK 5) Tanya Corker, Manchester, UK 6) Nicola Hargreaves, UK 7) Nicholas Jones, UK 8) Johann Don-Daniel, Germany 9) Ashley Berger, Germany 10) Sarah Downie, Leeds, UK 11) Paula Delahunty, Bingley, UK 12) John O'Driscoll, Bingley, Uk 13) Jordan-Lee Delahunty, Bingley, UK 14) Claire Mulvey, Bradford, UK 15) Marie Malcolm Bradford, UK 16) Ann Clowes, Halifax UK 17) Jayne McGee, Brighouse UK 18) Jason Barratt Oldham UK 19) Lindsay Torrance, Rochdale UK 20) Maggie Ford, Rochdale, U.K. 21) Barry Cook, Todmorden, U.K. 22) Shelley Burgoyne, Todmorden, U.K. 23) Lisa Stuart, Potes, Spain. 24) Michael Stuart, Potes, Spain. 25) Renee Engl, Byron Bay, Australia 26) Adrian Begg, Brunswick Heads, Australia 27) Riana Begg, Brunswick Heads, Australia 28) Oriel Paterson, Brunswick Heads, Australia 29) Alicia Paterson, Brisbane, Australia 30) Lyneve Robinson, Sydney, Australia 31) Jennifer Moalem, Sydney, Australia 32) Alexandra Pope, Sydney Australia 33) Shushann Movsessian, Sydney Australia 34) Amanda Frost 35) Chris Liddell, AUS 36) Jade Deegan, AUS 37) Jo Satori, AUS 38) Jennie Gorman, Vic AUS 39) Angelique Queensley, Victoria, Can 40)Chrystyanna Queensley, Victoria, Can 41) Dawna Masters, San Miguel De Allende, Mex. 42) John Gillespie, Canada 43) Ross Andersen, Canada 44) Devaki Thomas 45) Andrew Riley Mott, Victoria, Canada 46) Ari Cipes, Kelowna, Canada 47) Ezra Cipes, Kelowna BC, Canada 48) Michael Coutt, Oaxaca City, Mexico 49) Molly Thurston, Canada 50) Cecelia McMorrow, Lindsay, Canada 51) Marlene Callaghan, Reaboro, Ontario, Canada 52) Steve Callaghan, Reaboro, Ontario, Canada 53) Ruth Abernethy, Wellesley, Ontario
Re: [Biofuel] Bad Stuff is Happening With Chile's Water
Thanks, Joe; by their counter, that site should hit their target # of signatures today. :-)~ only problem i see is that it appears the PetitionSite petition will go to some flunky @ Barricks, rather than to the Chilean gov't. -- so Andrew's link may still be more appropos. Cheers Peace E. Allen C. --- Joe Street [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey Andrew and all; Probably better to go here; http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/946839131?ltl=1148474564 If you want to take action on this (and I hope you do) Joe Andrew Netherton wrote: Dear friends who care about our earth. Judge for yourself if you want to take action. In the Valle de San Felix, the purest water in Chile runs from 2 rivers, fed by 2 glaciers. Water is a most precious resource, and wars will be fought for it. Indigenous farmers use the water, there is no unemployment, and they provide the second largest source of income for the area. Under the glaciers has been found a huge deposit of gold, silver andother minerals. To get at these, it would be necessary to break, to destroy the glaciers - something never conceived of in the history of the world - and to make 2 huge holes, each as big as a whole mountain, one for extraction and one for the mine's rubbish tip. The project is called PASCUA LAMA. The company is called Barrick Gold. The operation is planned by a multi-national company, one of whose members is George Bush Sr. The Chilean Government has approved the project to start this year, 2006. The only reason it hasn't started yet is because the farmers have got a temporary stay of execution. If they destroy the glaciers, they will not just destroy the source of especially pure water, but they will permanently contaminate the 2 rivers so they will never again be fit for human or animal consumption because of the use of cyanide and sulphuric acid in the extraction process. Every last gram of gold will go abroad to the multinational company and not one will be left with the people whose land it is. They will only be left with the poisoned water and the resulting illnesses. The farmers have been fighting a long time for their land, but have been forbidden to make a TV appeal by a ban from the Ministry of the Interior. Their only hope now of putting brakes on this project is to get help from international justice. The world must know what is happening in Chile. The only place to start changing the world is from here. We ask you to circulate this message amongst your friends in the following way. Please copy this text, paste it into a new email adding your signature and send it to everyone in your address book. Please, will the 100th person to receive and sign the petition, send it to [EMAIL PROTECTED] to be forwarded to the Chilean Government. No to Pascua Lama Open-cast mine in the Andean Cordillera on the Chilean-Argentine frontier. We ask the Chilean Government not to authorize the Pascua Lama project to protect the whole of 3 glaciers, the purity of the water of the San Felix Valley and El Transito, the quality of the agricultural land of the region of Atacama, the quality of life of the Diaguita people and of the whole population of the region. Signature, City, Country 1) Katharine Proudfoot, Edinburgh, Scotland, UK 2) Laura Cole, London, UK 3) David Platt, London, UK 4) Diane Platt, Manchester, UK 5) Tanya Corker, Manchester, UK 6) Nicola Hargreaves, UK 7) Nicholas Jones, UK 8) Johann Don-Daniel, Germany 9) Ashley Berger, Germany 10) Sarah Downie, Leeds, UK 11) Paula Delahunty, Bingley, UK 12) John O'Driscoll, Bingley, Uk 13) Jordan-Lee Delahunty, Bingley, UK 14) Claire Mulvey, Bradford, UK 15) Marie Malcolm Bradford, UK 16) Ann Clowes, Halifax UK 17) Jayne McGee, Brighouse UK 18) Jason Barratt Oldham UK 19) Lindsay Torrance, Rochdale UK 20) Maggie Ford, Rochdale, U.K. 21) Barry Cook, Todmorden, U.K. 22) Shelley Burgoyne, Todmorden, U.K. 23) Lisa Stuart, Potes, Spain. 24) Michael Stuart, Potes, Spain. 25) Renee Engl, Byron Bay, Australia 26) Adrian Begg, Brunswick Heads, Australia 27) Riana Begg, Brunswick Heads, Australia 28) Oriel Paterson, Brunswick Heads, Australia 29) Alicia Paterson, Brisbane, Australia 30) Lyneve Robinson, Sydney, Australia 31) Jennifer Moalem, Sydney, Australia 32) Alexandra Pope, Sydney Australia 33) Shushann Movsessian, Sydney Australia 34) Amanda Frost 35) Chris Liddell, AUS 36) Jade Deegan, AUS 37) Jo Satori, AUS 38) Jennie Gorman, Vic AUS 39) Angelique Queensley, Victoria, Can 40)Chrystyanna Queensley, Victoria, Can 41) Dawna Masters, San Miguel De Allende, Mex. 42) John Gillespie, Canada 43) Ross Andersen, Canada 44) Devaki Thomas 45) Andrew Riley Mott, Victoria, Canada
Re: [Biofuel] Police Brutality in Ohio
Mike McGinness wrote: Keith asked below: If you say Kent State in the US now, does it still carry that connotation? That's all it means to me and I'm sure a great many others, but does it still mean anything in the US, or is it just the name of a college now? Keith, The younger generations under say about 45 years now were to young or not born yet to remember it and it is rarely if ever discussed now. That hardly matters Mike. Otherwise you're saying in effect that history is dead, but it's not dead. There are all sorts of examples. There was a 50s teddy boy craze in the UK in the 90s, among 18-year-olds. It wasn't engineered by anybody, it just happened, perfect to the detail except they carried a particular style of ghetto-blaster and you didn't get ghetto-blasters in the 50s. Teddy boys with a new medium. Maybe it was just a weird kind of nostalgia or maybe it was a genuine social update of something that mattered in some obscure way, I wouldn't know, but it wouldn't be the first time. I lived in Holland for a couple of years at the end of the 80s. Holland was occupied by Germany during WW2, and the Dutch had a different attitude to the war to what I'd found in Britain, which hadn't been occupied. In the UK it was mostly ancient history by then, but in Holland it was still a current issue that could effect the way even young people voted, though they were born a generation after the war ended. The people who turn out at Other Superpower anti-war or anti-WTO demonstrations or whatever are continuing the traditions of the Sixties and many of them know it, but most of them are under 45. Did you read the reviews of Sideshow that I referenced? It's about the bombing of Cambodia, which the Kent State students were protesting about when they were shot. One review writen on January 16, 2006 starts: On Junior Day, 2006, I would recommend SIDESHOW by William Shawcross. It contains information about the twentieth century that could be applied to situations that America faces in the world in 2006. (Junior Day is for schoolkids, right?) The Kent State shootings had a 25th anniversary in 1995, it got a lot of airtime. There's no way to judge it, but if you'd say it had no effect that would probably mean you don't know much about how symbolism works in societies. If you search for Kent State at Google the 1970 shootings come up at #3. That's encouraging. It's not only over-45s who're showing so much interest in the issue now, or in any issues which have a bearing on current affairs, no matter when they happened. Krystalnacht and the fall of the Roman Empire have also been much in discussion these last four years by Americans and many others who weren't there at the time. Mobilising symbols don't die, that's not how it works. The mechanisms of it are hidden from view but their potential remains. I think a lot of Americans aren't comfortable with this kind of thinking, it clashes with the American myth of the rugged individualist who makes his own decisions. That makes rugged individualists suckers for spin, much of which works on the same level. They never know what hit them - worse, they never even know they've been hit. If you think this stuff doesn't exist you'll have a hard time explaining a beehive or an ant colony, and especially a human society. Now there's change happening, in the US and globally, and it dates from Hurricane Katrina. But you won't find an explanation for it in Hurricane Katrina, that was just the trigger. It's an accumulative effect, it's not the last straw that breaks the camel's back, it's the whole load. A previous time this happened was when the environment suddenly changed from something for airheads to fret over to a central issue that would not go away. It happened more or less overnight, on 27 Sept 1988, with these words: Stable prosperity can be achieved throughout the world provided the environment is nurtured and safeguarded. Protecting this balance of nature is therefore one of the great challenges of the late Twentieth Century. They were spoken by arch-conservative Margaret Thatcher, on the advice of her economics advisor Sir Alan Walters, an arch free-marketeer, and Thatcher at least lived to regret it (and especially what she'd said about human-caused global warming). The effect was out of all proportion to the apparent cause: her. What she and Walters wanted was to catch some votes, not change the world. I think there'd be a wide variety of different answers to the question of what Kent State means in the US now, and elsewhere too. Thanks for the examples. Most of them have never heard of Kent State. I actually still have an authentic Kent State T-Shirt, but unfortunately it is about 6 sizes to small for me now. The t-shirt shrunk eh? :-) My older brother was teaching Physics at Ohio State Univ back in those days and sent me one here in Houston when I was barely a teenager (8th-9th grade?)
Re: [Biofuel] hydrogen fuel balls from a gas pump?
Hi Mike; You and I have something in common then. The university I work for has just launched an undergraduate program called nanotechnology engineering. Quite the laugh since the engineers are waay behind the scientists in nanotech, but it was part of an initiative to get status and therefore money, being the first university in the world to launch such a program. We don't even have a grad program yet, but I digress.. You know about the risks of playing with particles that are able to easily go inside cell walls then. I personally feel we should have a moratorium on this technology for a while until we know more but then I feel that way about genetic research too, and a lot of stuff actually. But the forces of the capitalist charade will see to it that we discover our mistakes when they are in our faces rather than beforehand sigh I had some glass microspheres about a decade ago and there were warnings all over it about inhalation risks, and these were not even hollow with palladium inside just solid glass. Joe Mike McGinness wrote: I guess we will all just have a BALL, LOL. OK, I guess it's not really funny after all. GOOD Question I just wrote a published paper late last year on the hazards of NanoTech particles on just this sort of item. Mike McGinness Joe Street wrote: Uh huh and what happens when you breathe them? Joe Kirk McLoren wrote: [0]navalynt writes New Scientist reports that the Department of Energy has filed a patent for [1]hydrogen fuel balls. From the article 'The proposed glass microspheres would each be a few millionths of a metre (microns) wide with a hollow center containing specks of palladium. The walls of each sphere would also have pores just a few ten-billionths of a metre in diameter.' They are supposedly safe and small enough to be pumped into a fuel tank in the same manner as gasoline. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] CEI runs PRO CARBON DIOXIDE ADS
I always thought a good shirt would read: Secret Prisons, Cost: 1 Billion Dollars Illegally Kidnapping Foreign Citizens, Cost: 10 Billion Dollars Illegally Spying on Your Citizens, Cost: 20 Billion Transforming the US into the Third Reich: Priceless There are some things money can buy, for everything else there's Dick, Donald, and Dubya. On Thursday, May 25, 2006 8:06 AM, Joe Street wrote: Actually I know this is a bit of a joke but I bought some t-shirts lately. One is a hoody with a silhouette of the shrub and a swastika on his forehead and the caption 'WAR CRIMINAL' another has a pic of the shrub and the caption INTERNATIONAL TERRORIST as well as the Dick is a killer t-shirt I mentioned before. I work in an educational institution so I have to be serious about the impression I make on young minds. I wear these shirts as often as possible. Joe ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Police Brutality in Ohio
Hey! I wasn't born till '78, but I know what Kent state was, the weathermen, the moon shot, vietnam war, and alot of the stuff you are talking about. I didn't experience them, but isn't that why they teach history in school? Or do they? I never attended public school, so I may have inadvertently learned something I wasn't supposed to. Zeke On 5/25/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Keith asked below: If you say Kent State in the US now, does it still carry that connotation? That's all it means to me and I'm sure a great many others, but does it still mean anything in the US, or is it just the name of a college now? Keith, The younger generations under say about 45 years now were to young or not born yet to remember it and it is rarely if ever discussed now. Most of them have never heard of Kent State. I actually still have an authentic Kent State T-Shirt, but unfortunately it is about 6 sizes to small for me now. My older brother was teaching Physics at Ohio State Univ back in those days and sent me one here in Houston when I was barely a teenager (8th-9th grade?) anxiously waiting for my turn in the meat grinder when I turned 18. How quickly we forget. Related story, example: I was taking a college physics class back in 1992 when the professor starting talking about, remembering the day we landed on the moon, in 1969. He was astonished at all the 20 year old blank stares in the class (except mine, as I was 14 at the time in 1969, and I was the only 37 year old student in the class) and he realized they had not been born yet back in 1969. Most of them did not even know that we had ever landed on the MOON!!! Part of the problem is that the high school and grade school curriculum here lags behind by about 30 years (text books, bureaucracy, oversight...) and these kids totally miss the most recent history of the prior 10 to 25 years. They might hear of Kent State in a college ethics class from a thesis presentation if their lucky. I was a bit young then, but as I recall it was a major, MAJOR turning point and public awaking in this country as a result of the Kent State Massacre (as I recall that is what we called it then). National TV coverage of it played an important part in it too. Best, Mike McGinness -Original Message- From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: May 25, 2006 1:33 AM To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Police Brutality in Ohio Todd, Keith, Mike et al List; Kudos still to Keith for even-handed reasonableness. Thankyou Allen. :-) I'm also not a journalist, just a reader; still, i read the whole thing the links (retired, i have lots of time -- like to get the whole flavor of what i taste). It was apparent that this was an angry outraged piece -- i was sure by the end that the frail lady was probably not pure as the driven snow in the encounter, despite her protestations. But still -- she ( her fledgling organization) has citizen's rights, some of them were obviously violated, by organized power holding all the cards stacking the deck. At the very least, she ( the WCW she's part of) are due an apology some redress -- i wonder if they'll get it? I doubt it, but along with the event itself maybe it'll help open a few more eyes to some of the things that are going on in the land that terrorists allegedly hate because of its freedoms. (That's not a sneer, it's a lament.) This incident reminded me of one similar, albeit on a much larger scale, also in Ohio back in the day -- but 4 student activists DIED at Kent State! Thankyou for that too, a point I missed. So much for my geography, I didn't realise Kent State is in Ohio. :-( I was looking at the Kent State news photos the other day: http://may4.org/themes/may4/Filo1sm.jpg And at this too: http://journeytoforever.org/bflpics/flowerpower.jpg Not to bring it down, but it was the basic inspiration for the sunflowers-in-the-tank image on our biofuels pages, much ripped-off and emulated since then - it's not easy to illustrate biofuels! http://journeytoforever.org/media/s/sunflowers.jpg About the silliest copy I saw was this one, by Ed Beggs at PlantDrive/Neoteric, before they replaced it with an Elsbett lookalike logo: http://journeytoforever.org/bflpics/beggspic.jpg LOL! Didn't think I'd ever get a laugh out of Kent State. Supposedly, re-training for Nat'l Guard police came of that -- but a generation has grown old the new one may not have gotten that benefit. Time to revisit? If not for that one then surely for other pressing reasons. If you say Kent State in the US now, does it still carry that connotation? That's all it means to me and I'm sure a great many others, but does it still mean anything in the US, or is it just the name of a college now? If you search for Kent State at Google the 1970 shootings come up at #3. That's encouraging.
Re: [Biofuel] MaGnesol is... was Re: Manesol pretreatment and washing
Keith Addison wrote: You seem rather cross, Chris. Not at all, lol, I just get the impression that it was you opinion that using anything other than water for cleaning biodiesel was a big 'no no'. The way your response came across read to me like that. I apologise if I misread you. I reached no such conclusion. I expressed a valid doubt and asked for some evidence. The burden of proof is not on me nor on the consumer when the makers of a commercial product make claims for it, it's on them. I don't accept it gives better-quality results unless maybe you're starting with a poorly completed product, in which case the magnesol is just masking the problem (like mist-washing). I read this as you opinion being that the results from my experiments were some how 'made up'. My results showed that I can wash my product quicker with magnesol and that this is the result I am looking for with my process in mind. I agree its up to the manufacturer to provide evidence, and they comissioned a report to find the answers, it is readlily available in the public domain. You're siding with risk assessment, we go by the Precautionary Principle here, we ask questions, and is that not why we are here!. As do I. I am a professional engineer and havent got by on taking things for granted and not requiring proof of principles when integrating new techniques, processes, and technologies. You say 'we ask questions'? But what questions have been asked? I have simply made available to a group of people who are interested in biofuels my results from utilising a variation in the process, nothing more, nothing less. I would expect a better way forward for the current biofuel technologies would be to discuss these variations, and see if they are a step forwards, or indeed backwards. Your previusly quoted comment suggests that you have no belief that this is the case here, and you admitted yourself that you have seen no evidence. I feel this is not the way to move forward. Who's trying to stop you? I wasnt aware that anybody was! Not sure what agve you the idea that I was considering binning the idea. On the other hand, as we all know or should by now, the water resource you'd be using need not be wasted, and I'm afraid I have to ask whether you use a flush toilet that uses fresh water? I do indeed flush my toilet with fresh water. Attractive as it may be to carry waste wash water from work 20 miles to home to refill the cistern, I doubt the practical aspects of doing this would go without a frown or two from the wife. :-D You've provided us with one reason anyway for using Magnesol (presuming it passes the other hurdles Todd mentioned, and me), and you've also offered some test results below, which is what I asked for though I haven't read them yet, so what's the problem? Isn't that why we're here? Just re-read Todds message and although I can see a few important issues he mentioned regarding energy expenses, as to actual hurdles in the way of integrating magnesol into a process I see none. Would you say that you've reached a stage with learning the process where you can easily make homebrew biodiesel yourself that gets within the standard specs with a few hours spent stir-washing it so you can do some comparative tests yourself? I didn't get the impression that was established with the results you gave us, please correct me if I'm wrong. Best Keith I have indeed. If you refer to the fact that I over 'lyed' the test batches then the reason for this was quite deliberate. In the event of a misreading, miscalculation or mismeasurement during a process then the water washing stage offers the ability to correct the oversight. I wanted to be sure that a magnesol wash could cope with this. If a measured dose of magnesol can cope with a soapy batch diesel then it can certanly cope with a good batch. If I had not done this then I would have had no 'safety factor' in my conclusions. I will leave this subject at that and make no more mention of it. I was interested in getting feedback and ideas on the technical/chemistry side of things, maybe this is not the place to do that. Chris.. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] MaGnesol is... was Re: Manesol pretreatment and washing
Hello Chris Keith Addison wrote: You seem rather cross, Chris. Not at all, lol, :-) If you insist. Try reading it again (like you had to read what I'd said again - but I think you should read that again too). Very common to back off and use an lol as a cover when people overreact. There's a wide disconnect between what I said and your angry response to it, and now you're trying to stretch what I said to cover the gap. Lots of confusion as a result, and my original post that you're interpreting every which way rather than reading the damn' thing has gone missing in action, so I'll put it back, here it is: Something to add might be whether Magnesol really does give the same results. If it's time-saving that's the aim there are ways round that without becoming more dependent on anyone. I don't accept it gives better-quality results unless maybe you're starting with a poorly completed product, in which case the magnesol is just masking the problem (like mist-washing). You can easily get within the standard specs with well-made homebrew biodiesel plus a few hours spent stir-washing it. If you GC'd the result and compared it with a sample of the same batch of homebrew dry-washed with Magnesol, what would it show? Has anybody seen such results? Okay? I just get the impression :-) It's wasn't a very impressionistic piece of writing. that it was you opinion that using anything other than water for cleaning biodiesel was a big 'no no'. The way your response came across read to me like that. I apologise if I misread you. Apology accepted, but you still are misreading it. If you still see it as a dismissal rather than a question then I'd have to ask why you dislike the question so much. Biofuels makes the best sense when production is localised and therefore necessarily adapted to local conditions (even the US military thinks that these days). That means the Appropriate Technology approach, and *that* means K.I.S.S., on the one hand, and optimal use of locally available, renewable resources on the other, such as water - whether it's scarce or not is a local condition and doesn't change the principle. So, yes, there will be resistance to relying on anything extra that doesn't meet those criteria, especially if top-quality fuel production is a simple matter without it. If you're not aware of this background then that's your problem. Finding it introduced when you're not expecting it may not be a pleasant surprise, but concluding that it means we don't do biofuels discussions here and you might as well go somewhere else with your nose in the air is kind of preposterous. But it's up to you of course, feel free. I reached no such conclusion. I expressed a valid doubt and asked for some evidence. The burden of proof is not on me nor on the consumer when the makers of a commercial product make claims for it, it's on them. I don't accept it gives better-quality results unless maybe you're starting with a poorly completed product, in which case the magnesol is just masking the problem (like mist-washing). I read this as you opinion Not so. If I'd said it doesn't give better-quality results, that would be an opinion. But I said I didn't accept it and asked for test results that would tell one way or the other. That's a question. I expressed a valid doubt and asked for some evidence. What you read into that, what it suggests to you, the impression you get from it, is that I'm rejecting discussion of it. That's the sort of logic you get from the Red Queen in Alice. being that the results from my experiments were some how 'made up'. Why not try reading what's there instead of what you're reading into it that isn't there? You're just cross because you saw it as an attack on your experiments and maybe on you. Go and find where I said that, or even implied it. In the following post I asked you about your processing, but I didn't say it was crap. Why are you protesting so loudly? My results showed that I can wash my product quicker with magnesol and that this is the result I am looking for with my process in mind. ... my product... quicker. But you haven't convinced yet that you're getting good completion with your product. Let's have a look at that now. I asked: Would you say that you've reached a stage with learning the process where you can easily make homebrew biodiesel yourself that gets within the standard specs with a few hours spent stir-washing it so you can do some comparative tests yourself? I didn't get the impression that was established with the results you gave us, please correct me if I'm wrong. I have indeed. If you refer to the fact that I over 'lyed' the test batches then the reason for this was quite deliberate. In the event of a misreading, miscalculation or mismeasurement during a process then the water washing stage offers the ability to correct the oversight. If the mis-whatever results in poor completion it will only mask
Re: [Biofuel] MaGnesol is... was Re: Manesol pretreatment and washing
Chris Bennett was certainly angry. He posted his last message and I just got the notice that he unsubscribed shortly afterwards, before I posted my reply, below. That's ridiculous. Oh well. Best of luck to him. Best Keith Hello Chris Keith Addison wrote: You seem rather cross, Chris. Not at all, lol, :-) If you insist. Try reading it again (like you had to read what I'd said again - but I think you should read that again too). Very common to back off and use an lol as a cover when people overreact. There's a wide disconnect between what I said and your angry response to it, and now you're trying to stretch what I said to cover the gap. Lots of confusion as a result, and my original post that you're interpreting every which way rather than reading the damn' thing has gone missing in action, so I'll put it back, here it is: Something to add might be whether Magnesol really does give the same results. If it's time-saving that's the aim there are ways round that without becoming more dependent on anyone. I don't accept it gives better-quality results unless maybe you're starting with a poorly completed product, in which case the magnesol is just masking the problem (like mist-washing). You can easily get within the standard specs with well-made homebrew biodiesel plus a few hours spent stir-washing it. If you GC'd the result and compared it with a sample of the same batch of homebrew dry-washed with Magnesol, what would it show? Has anybody seen such results? Okay? I just get the impression :-) It's wasn't a very impressionistic piece of writing. that it was you opinion that using anything other than water for cleaning biodiesel was a big 'no no'. The way your response came across read to me like that. I apologise if I misread you. Apology accepted, but you still are misreading it. If you still see it as a dismissal rather than a question then I'd have to ask why you dislike the question so much. Biofuels makes the best sense when production is localised and therefore necessarily adapted to local conditions (even the US military thinks that these days). That means the Appropriate Technology approach, and *that* means K.I.S.S., on the one hand, and optimal use of locally available, renewable resources on the other, such as water - whether it's scarce or not is a local condition and doesn't change the principle. So, yes, there will be resistance to relying on anything extra that doesn't meet those criteria, especially if top-quality fuel production is a simple matter without it. If you're not aware of this background then that's your problem. Finding it introduced when you're not expecting it may not be a pleasant surprise, but concluding that it means we don't do biofuels discussions here and you might as well go somewhere else with your nose in the air is kind of preposterous. But it's up to you of course, feel free. I reached no such conclusion. I expressed a valid doubt and asked for some evidence. The burden of proof is not on me nor on the consumer when the makers of a commercial product make claims for it, it's on them. I don't accept it gives better-quality results unless maybe you're starting with a poorly completed product, in which case the magnesol is just masking the problem (like mist-washing). I read this as you opinion Not so. If I'd said it doesn't give better-quality results, that would be an opinion. But I said I didn't accept it and asked for test results that would tell one way or the other. That's a question. I expressed a valid doubt and asked for some evidence. What you read into that, what it suggests to you, the impression you get from it, is that I'm rejecting discussion of it. That's the sort of logic you get from the Red Queen in Alice. being that the results from my experiments were some how 'made up'. Why not try reading what's there instead of what you're reading into it that isn't there? You're just cross because you saw it as an attack on your experiments and maybe on you. Go and find where I said that, or even implied it. In the following post I asked you about your processing, but I didn't say it was crap. Why are you protesting so loudly? My results showed that I can wash my product quicker with magnesol and that this is the result I am looking for with my process in mind. ... my product... quicker. But you haven't convinced yet that you're getting good completion with your product. Let's have a look at that now. I asked: Would you say that you've reached a stage with learning the process where you can easily make homebrew biodiesel yourself that gets within the standard specs with a few hours spent stir-washing it so you can do some comparative tests yourself? I didn't get the impression that was established with the results you gave us, please correct me if I'm wrong. I have indeed. If you refer to the fact that I over 'lyed' the test batches then the reason for this was quite deliberate. In
[Biofuel] Seriously and Just for fun
Hi All, In case you thought protest music ended in the last century, there are a few young ones still trying. Just go to google in English and type asshole and hit 'I feel lucky'. After listening and watching the music video a gray screen with credits comes up. Click on the " miss the 2004 version click here. This will take you to a wonderfully disturbing website called filmstripinternational.com.There are several titles but the one I really found interesting was the 1946 EncyclopediaBrittanica despotism filmstrip. Who says history doesn't repeat itself. If this has already been posted I'm sorry but I missed it. Tom Irwin ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] hydrogen fuel balls from a gas pump?
goodness, gracious great balls o' fire... Would a moratorium on nanotechnology involve glass beads with diameters of a few microns. this really is large compared to nanoscale Joe Street wrote: Hi Mike; You and I have something in common then. The university I work for has just launched an undergraduate program called nanotechnology engineering. Quite the laugh since the engineers are waay behind the scientists in nanotech, but it was part of an initiative to get status and therefore money, being the first university in the world to launch such a program. We don't even have a grad program yet, but I digress.. You know about the risks of playing with particles that are able to easily go inside cell walls then. I personally feel we should have a moratorium on this technology for a while until we know more but then I feel that way about genetic research too, and a lot of stuff actually. But the forces of the capitalist charade will see to it that we discover our mistakes when they are in our faces rather than beforehand sigh I had some glass microspheres about a decade ago and there were warnings all over it about inhalation risks, and these were not even hollow with palladium inside just solid glass. Joe Mike McGinness wrote: I guess we will all just have a BALL, LOL. OK, I guess it's not really funny after all. GOOD Question I just wrote a published paper late last year on the hazards of NanoTech particles on just this sort of item. Mike McGinness Joe Street wrote: Uh huh and what happens when you breathe them? Joe Kirk McLoren wrote: [0]navalynt writes New Scientist reports that the Department of Energy has filed a patent for [1]hydrogen fuel balls. From the article 'The proposed glass microspheres would each be a few millionths of a metre (microns) wide with a hollow center containing specks of palladium. The walls of each sphere would also have pores just a few ten-billionths of a metre in diameter.' They are supposedly safe and small enough to be pumped into a fuel tank in the same manner as gasoline. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- Bob Allen http://ozarker.org/bob Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves - Richard Feynman ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Police Brutality in Ohio
Did somebody say Weathermen? The sixties and seventies were a fascinating time in our history whether you agreed with a particular ideology or not. If I had some cash to spend, I'd go to Pacifica radio and build an audio collection of interviews and speeches. Bobby Seale Huey Newton Abbie Hoffman Martin Luther King Jr. Malcolm X Mumia Leonard Peltier George Jackson etc., etc. Some of those who struggled then are still speaking out today - albeit from a prison cell. Mike Zeke Yewdall wrote: Hey! I wasn't born till '78, but I know what Kent state was, the weathermen, the moon shot, vietnam war, and alot of the stuff you are talking about. I didn't experience them, but isn't that why they teach history in school? Or do they? I never attended public school, so I may have inadvertently learned something I wasn't supposed to. Zeke [snip] ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] MIKesol pretreatment and washing
Well, I for one am completely outraged about every single post in the last two years. Besides, if you people haven't figured out you can wash biodisel with kitty litter and skip the water all together, well, it's not as if I didn't warn you. I will be taking out a patent on this and selling it on Ebay so the list and JtF will soon be irrelevant. Mike soon to be a large faceless corporation Weaver Keith Addison wrote: Chris Bennett was certainly angry. He posted his last message and I just got the notice that he unsubscribed shortly afterwards, before I posted my reply, below. That's ridiculous. Oh well. Best of luck to him. Best Keith Hello Chris Keith Addison wrote: You seem rather cross, Chris. Not at all, lol, :-) If you insist. Try reading it again (like you had to read what I'd said again - but I think you should read that again too). Very common to back off and use an lol as a cover when people overreact. There's a wide disconnect between what I said and your angry response to it, and now you're trying to stretch what I said to cover the gap. Lots of confusion as a result, and my original post that you're interpreting every which way rather than reading the damn' thing has gone missing in action, so I'll put it back, here it is: Something to add might be whether Magnesol really does give the same results. If it's time-saving that's the aim there are ways round that without becoming more dependent on anyone. I don't accept it gives better-quality results unless maybe you're starting with a poorly completed product, in which case the magnesol is just masking the problem (like mist-washing). You can easily get within the standard specs with well-made homebrew biodiesel plus a few hours spent stir-washing it. If you GC'd the result and compared it with a sample of the same batch of homebrew dry-washed with Magnesol, what would it show? Has anybody seen such results? Okay? I just get the impression :-) It's wasn't a very impressionistic piece of writing. that it was you opinion that using anything other than water for cleaning biodiesel was a big 'no no'. The way your response came across read to me like that. I apologise if I misread you. Apology accepted, but you still are misreading it. If you still see it as a dismissal rather than a question then I'd have to ask why you dislike the question so much. Biofuels makes the best sense when production is localised and therefore necessarily adapted to local conditions (even the US military thinks that these days). That means the Appropriate Technology approach, and *that* means K.I.S.S., on the one hand, and optimal use of locally available, renewable resources on the other, such as water - whether it's scarce or not is a local condition and doesn't change the principle. So, yes, there will be resistance to relying on anything extra that doesn't meet those criteria, especially if top-quality fuel production is a simple matter without it. If you're not aware of this background then that's your problem. Finding it introduced when you're not expecting it may not be a pleasant surprise, but concluding that it means we don't do biofuels discussions here and you might as well go somewhere else with your nose in the air is kind of preposterous. But it's up to you of course, feel free. I reached no such conclusion. I expressed a valid doubt and asked for some evidence. The burden of proof is not on me nor on the consumer when the makers of a commercial product make claims for it, it's on them. I don't accept it gives better-quality results unless maybe you're starting with a poorly completed product, in which case the magnesol is just masking the problem (like mist-washing). I read this as you opinion Not so. If I'd said it doesn't give better-quality results, that would be an opinion. But I said I didn't accept it and asked for test results that would tell one way or the other. That's a question. I expressed a valid doubt and asked for some evidence. What you read into that, what it suggests to you, the impression you get from it, is that I'm rejecting discussion of it. That's the sort of logic you get from the Red Queen in Alice. being that the results from my experiments were some how 'made up'. Why not try reading what's there instead of what you're reading into it that isn't there? You're just cross because you saw it as an attack on your experiments and maybe on you. Go and find where I said that, or even implied it. In the following post I asked you about your processing, but I didn't say it was crap. Why are you protesting so loudly? My results showed that I can wash my product quicker with magnesol and that this is the result I am looking for with my process in mind. ... my product... quicker. But you haven't convinced yet that you're getting good completion with your product. Let's
[Biofuel] Don't need a Weatherman to know which way the wind blows
I've heard that but I can't remember them. Mike Redler wrote: Did somebody say Weathermen? The sixties and seventies were a fascinating time in our history whether you agreed with a particular ideology or not. If I had some cash to spend, I'd go to Pacifica radio and build an audio collection of interviews and speeches. Bobby Seale Huey Newton Abbie Hoffman Martin Luther King Jr. Malcolm X Mumia Leonard Peltier George Jackson etc., etc. Some of those who struggled then are still speaking out today - albeit from a prison cell. Mike Zeke Yewdall wrote: Hey! I wasn't born till '78, but I know what Kent state was, the weathermen, the moon shot, vietnam war, and alot of the stuff you are talking about. I didn't experience them, but isn't that why they teach history in school? Or do they? I never attended public school, so I may have inadvertently learned something I wasn't supposed to. Zeke [snip] ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] hydrogen fuel balls from a gas pump?
No and now that I read my post back I realise how that inference could come out of it. My comments were in regard to nanoscale particles which can pass through cell membranes. The micron sized particles are a respiratory hazard just as asbesdos or other fine particles can be. I guess I combined both ideas in one thread since Mike commented on his paper about nanoscale particles. Nanoscale particles could be a hazard to any cell they come in contact with skin, plant, bacteria, or otherwise. Just check into depleted uranium and it's oxides to get a glimpse into the issue. A prof here got into a lot of hot water with the US authorities over his research into it a few years ago. Many life processes are colloidal and we are entering into an era where the insides of cells of living tissues will be exposed to things that are unprecedented in evolutionary history. A great time to let things be guided by market forces eh? Sorry for the confusion. Joe bob allen wrote: goodness, gracious great balls o' fire... Would a moratorium on nanotechnology involve glass beads with diameters of a few microns. this really is large compared to nanoscale Joe Street wrote: Hi Mike; You and I have something in common then. The university I work for has just launched an undergraduate program called nanotechnology engineering. Quite the laugh since the engineers are waay behind the scientists in nanotech, but it was part of an initiative to get status and therefore money, being the first university in the world to launch such a program. We don't even have a grad program yet, but I digress.. You know about the risks of playing with particles that are able to easily go inside cell walls then. I personally feel we should have a moratorium on this technology for a while until we know more but then I feel that way about genetic research too, and a lot of stuff actually. But the forces of the capitalist charade will see to it that we discover our mistakes when they are in our faces rather than beforehand sigh I had some glass microspheres about a decade ago and there were warnings all over it about inhalation risks, and these were not even hollow with palladium inside just solid glass. Joe Mike McGinness wrote: I guess we will all just have a BALL, LOL. OK, I guess it's not really funny after all. GOOD Question I just wrote a published paper late last year on the hazards of NanoTech particles on just this sort of item. Mike McGinness Joe Street wrote: Uh huh and what happens when you breathe them? Joe Kirk McLoren wrote: [0]navalynt writes New Scientist reports that the Department of Energy has filed a patent for [1]hydrogen fuel balls. From the article 'The proposed glass microspheres would each be a few millionths of a metre (microns) wide with a hollow center containing specks of palladium. The walls of each sphere would also have pores just a few ten-billionths of a metre in diameter.' They are supposedly safe and small enough to be pumped into a fuel tank in the same manner as gasoline. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Energy Problem Solved! Here Comes the Turboencabulator!
The machine that makes all other machines obsolete! http://www.doc.ic.ac.uk/%7Eids/dotdot/misc/jokes/turboencabulator.txt Turboencabulator JH Quick [From The Institute of Electrical Engineers, Students Quarterly Journal 25] For a number of years now, work has has been proceeding in order to bring prefection to the crudely conceived idea of a machine that would work to not only supply inverse reactive current, for use in unilateral phase detectors, but would also be capable of automatically synchronising cardinal grammeters. Such a machine is the 'Turboencabulator'. Basically, the only new principle involved is that instead of the power being generated by the relaxive motion of conductors and fluxes, it is produced by the modial interactions of magneto- reluctance and capacitive directance. The original machine had a base-plate of prefabulated amulite, surrounded by a malleable logarithmic casing in such a way that the two spurving bearings were in direct line with the pentametric fan, the latter consisted simply of six hydrocoptic marzelvanes, so fitted to the ambifacient lunar vaneshaft that side fumbling was effectively prevented. The main winding was of the normal lotus- o-delta type placed in panendermic semiboloid solts in the stator, every seventh conductor being connected by a non-reversible termic pipe to the differential girdlespring on the 'up' end of the grammeter. Forty-one manestically placed grouting brushes were arrranged to feed into the rotor slip stream a mixture of high S-value phenyhydrobenzamine and 5 percent reminative tetraiodohexamine. Both these liquids have specific pericosities given by p=2.4 Cn where n is the diathecial evolute of retrograde temperature phase disposition and C is the Chomondeley's annual grillage coefficient. Initially, n was measured with the aid of a metapolar pilfrometer, but up to the present date nothing has been found to equal the transcetental hopper dadoscope. Electrical engineers will appreciate the difficulty of nubbing together a regurgitative purwell and a superaminative wennel-sprocket. Indeed, this proved to be a stumbling block to further development until, in 1943, it was found that the use of anhydrous nagling pins enabled a kyptonastic boiling shim to be tankered. The early attempts to construct a sufficiently robust spiral decommutator failed largely because of lack of appreciation of the large quasi-pietic stresses in the gremlin studs; the latter were specially designed to hold the roffit bars to the spamshaft. When, however, it was discovered that wending could be prevented by the simple addition of teeth to socket, almost perfect running was secured. The operating point is maintained as near as possible to the HF rem peak by constantly fromaging the bituminous spandrels. This is a distinct advance on the standard nivelsheave in that no drammock oil is required after the phase detractors have remissed. Undoubtedly, the turboencabulator has now reached a very high level of technical development. It has been successfully used for operating nofer trunnions. In addition, whenever a barescent skor motion is required, it may be employed in conjunction with a drawn reciprocating dingle arm to reduce sinusoidal depleneration. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] CEI runs PRO CARBON DIOXIDE ADS
wouldnt this be the 4th? i mean AH did finally fail, so the shrub would be the 4th. - Original Message - From: DHAJOGLO [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2006 1:01 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] CEI runs PRO CARBON DIOXIDE ADS I always thought a good shirt would read: Secret Prisons, Cost: 1 Billion Dollars Illegally Kidnapping Foreign Citizens, Cost: 10 Billion Dollars Illegally Spying on Your Citizens, Cost: 20 Billion Transforming the US into the Third Reich: Priceless There are some things money can buy, for everything else there's Dick, Donald, and Dubya. On Thursday, May 25, 2006 8:06 AM, Joe Street wrote: Actually I know this is a bit of a joke but I bought some t-shirts lately. One is a hoody with a silhouette of the shrub and a swastika on his forehead and the caption 'WAR CRIMINAL' another has a pic of the shrub and the caption INTERNATIONAL TERRORIST as well as the Dick is a killer t-shirt I mentioned before. I work in an educational institution so I have to be serious about the impression I make on young minds. I wear these shirts as often as possible. Joe ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.7.1/347 - Release Date: 5/24/2006 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] MIKesol pretreatment and washing
Outrage is not allowed. BTW kitty litter is EXPENSIVE. Orthagonal magnets are permanent and work better anyways. A one time up front investment of 1000 dollars or 4 easy payments of 599.99 and you can make all the fuel you will ever need from ditch swill. Forget about veggie oil. Those days are over. Taking orders nowand if you call now you get a free magnetic water softener. Limited time offer. Call now. J Mike Weaver wrote: Well, I for one am completely outraged about every single post in the last two years. Besides, if you people haven't figured out you can wash biodisel with kitty litter and skip the water all together, well, it's not as if I didn't warn you. I will be taking out a patent on this and selling it on Ebay so the list and JtF will soon be irrelevant. Mike soon to be a large faceless corporation Weaver Keith Addison wrote: Chris Bennett was certainly angry. He posted his last message and I just got the notice that he unsubscribed shortly afterwards, before I posted my reply, below. That's ridiculous. Oh well. Best of luck to him. Best Keith Hello Chris Keith Addison wrote: You seem rather cross, Chris. Not at all, lol, :-) If you insist. Try reading it again (like you had to read what I'd said again - but I think you should read that again too). Very common to back off and use an lol as a cover when people overreact. There's a wide disconnect between what I said and your angry response to it, and now you're trying to stretch what I said to cover the gap. Lots of confusion as a result, and my original post that you're interpreting every which way rather than reading the damn' thing has gone missing in action, so I'll put it back, here it is: Something to add might be whether Magnesol really does give the same results. If it's time-saving that's the aim there are ways round that without becoming more dependent on anyone. I don't accept it gives better-quality results unless maybe you're starting with a poorly completed product, in which case the magnesol is just masking the problem (like mist-washing). You can easily get within the standard specs with well-made homebrew biodiesel plus a few hours spent stir-washing it. If you GC'd the result and compared it with a sample of the same batch of homebrew dry-washed with Magnesol, what would it show? Has anybody seen such results? Okay? I just get the impression :-) It's wasn't a very impressionistic piece of writing. that it was you opinion that using anything other than water for cleaning biodiesel was a big 'no no'. The way your response came across read to me like that. I apologise if I misread you. Apology accepted, but you still are misreading it. If you still see it as a dismissal rather than a question then I'd have to ask why you dislike the question so much. Biofuels makes the best sense when production is localised and therefore necessarily adapted to local conditions (even the US military thinks that these days). That means the Appropriate Technology approach, and *that* means K.I.S.S., on the one hand, and optimal use of locally available, renewable resources on the other, such as water - whether it's scarce or not is a local condition and doesn't change the principle. So, yes, there will be resistance to relying on anything extra that doesn't meet those criteria, especially if top-quality fuel production is a simple matter without it. If you're not aware of this background then that's your problem. Finding it introduced when you're not expecting it may not be a pleasant surprise, but concluding that it means we don't do biofuels discussions here and you might as well go somewhere else with your nose in the air is kind of preposterous. But it's up to you of course, feel free. I reached no such conclusion. I expressed a valid doubt and asked for some evidence. The burden of proof is not on me nor on the consumer when the makers of a commercial product make claims for it, it's on them. I don't accept it gives better-quality results unless maybe you're starting with a poorly completed product, in which case the magnesol is just masking the problem (like mist-washing). I read this as you opinion Not so. If I'd said it doesn't give better-quality results, that would be an opinion. But I said I didn't accept it and asked for test results that would tell one way or the other. That's a question. I expressed a valid doubt and asked for some evidence. What you read into that, what it suggests to you, the impression you get from it, is that I'm rejecting discussion of it. That's the sort of logic you get from the Red Queen in Alice. being that the results from my experiments were some how 'made up'. Why not try reading what's there instead of what you're reading into it that isn't there? You're just cross because you saw it as an attack on your experiments
Re: [Biofuel] Energy Problem Solved! Here Comes the Turboencabulator!
im sorry, but even as a joke it doesnt seem plausible. isnt that the goal of a good joke, to seem plausible until the punchline? this is just gibberish and has no punchline therefore is a dumb joke. - Original Message - From: Mike Redler [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2006 4:02 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Energy Problem Solved! Here Comes the Turboencabulator! The machine that makes all other machines obsolete! http://www.doc.ic.ac.uk/%7Eids/dotdot/misc/jokes/turboencabulator.txt Turboencabulator JH Quick [From The Institute of Electrical Engineers, Students Quarterly Journal 25] For a number of years now, work has has been proceeding in order to bring prefection to the crudely conceived idea of a machine that would work to not only supply inverse reactive current, for use in unilateral phase detectors, but would also be capable of automatically synchronising cardinal grammeters. Such a machine is the 'Turboencabulator'. Basically, the only new principle involved is that instead of the power being generated by the relaxive motion of conductors and fluxes, it is produced by the modial interactions of magneto- reluctance and capacitive directance. The original machine had a base-plate of prefabulated amulite, surrounded by a malleable logarithmic casing in such a way that the two spurving bearings were in direct line with the pentametric fan, the latter consisted simply of six hydrocoptic marzelvanes, so fitted to the ambifacient lunar vaneshaft that side fumbling was effectively prevented. The main winding was of the normal lotus- o-delta type placed in panendermic semiboloid solts in the stator, every seventh conductor being connected by a non-reversible termic pipe to the differential girdlespring on the 'up' end of the grammeter. Forty-one manestically placed grouting brushes were arrranged to feed into the rotor slip stream a mixture of high S-value phenyhydrobenzamine and 5 percent reminative tetraiodohexamine. Both these liquids have specific pericosities given by p=2.4 Cn where n is the diathecial evolute of retrograde temperature phase disposition and C is the Chomondeley's annual grillage coefficient. Initially, n was measured with the aid of a metapolar pilfrometer, but up to the present date nothing has been found to equal the transcetental hopper dadoscope. Electrical engineers will appreciate the difficulty of nubbing together a regurgitative purwell and a superaminative wennel-sprocket. Indeed, this proved to be a stumbling block to further development until, in 1943, it was found that the use of anhydrous nagling pins enabled a kyptonastic boiling shim to be tankered. The early attempts to construct a sufficiently robust spiral decommutator failed largely because of lack of appreciation of the large quasi-pietic stresses in the gremlin studs; the latter were specially designed to hold the roffit bars to the spamshaft. When, however, it was discovered that wending could be prevented by the simple addition of teeth to socket, almost perfect running was secured. The operating point is maintained as near as possible to the HF rem peak by constantly fromaging the bituminous spandrels. This is a distinct advance on the standard nivelsheave in that no drammock oil is required after the phase detractors have remissed. Undoubtedly, the turboencabulator has now reached a very high level of technical development. It has been successfully used for operating nofer trunnions. In addition, whenever a barescent skor motion is required, it may be employed in conjunction with a drawn reciprocating dingle arm to reduce sinusoidal depleneration. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.7.1/347 - Release Date: 5/24/2006 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Energy Problem Solved! Here Comes the Turboencabulator!
That's so old! I built one of those years ago in my basement. The problem is that the framistrap let go from the firmathrottle which overramped the nucleomodulator resulting in a total meltdown. I never got my money back! Be warned. J Mike Redler wrote: The machine that makes all other machines obsolete! http://www.doc.ic.ac.uk/%7Eids/dotdot/misc/jokes/turboencabulator.txt Turboencabulator JH Quick [From The Institute of Electrical Engineers, Students Quarterly Journal 25] For a number of years now, work has has been proceeding in order to bring prefection to the crudely conceived idea of a machine that would work to not only supply inverse reactive current, for use in unilateral phase detectors, but would also be capable of automatically synchronising cardinal grammeters. Such a machine is the 'Turboencabulator'. Basically, the only new principle involved is that instead of the power being generated by the relaxive motion of conductors and fluxes, it is produced by the modial interactions of magneto- reluctance and capacitive directance. The original machine had a base-plate of prefabulated amulite, surrounded by a malleable logarithmic casing in such a way that the two spurving bearings were in direct line with the pentametric fan, the latter consisted simply of six hydrocoptic marzelvanes, so fitted to the ambifacient lunar vaneshaft that side fumbling was effectively prevented. The main winding was of the normal lotus- o-delta type placed in panendermic semiboloid solts in the stator, every seventh conductor being connected by a non-reversible termic pipe to the differential girdlespring on the 'up' end of the grammeter. Forty-one manestically placed grouting brushes were arrranged to feed into the rotor slip stream a mixture of high S-value phenyhydrobenzamine and 5 percent reminative tetraiodohexamine. Both these liquids have specific pericosities given by p=2.4 Cn where n is the diathecial evolute of retrograde temperature phase disposition and C is the Chomondeley's annual grillage coefficient. Initially, n was measured with the aid of a metapolar pilfrometer, but up to the present date nothing has been found to equal the transcetental hopper dadoscope. Electrical engineers will appreciate the difficulty of nubbing together a regurgitative purwell and a superaminative wennel-sprocket. Indeed, this proved to be a stumbling block to further development until, in 1943, it was found that the use of anhydrous nagling pins enabled a kyptonastic boiling shim to be tankered. The early attempts to construct a sufficiently robust spiral decommutator failed largely because of lack of appreciation of the large quasi-pietic stresses in the gremlin studs; the latter were specially designed to hold the roffit bars to the spamshaft. When, however, it was discovered that wending could be prevented by the simple addition of teeth to socket, almost perfect running was secured. The operating point is maintained as near as possible to the HF rem peak by constantly fromaging the bituminous spandrels. This is a distinct advance on the standard nivelsheave in that no drammock oil is required after the phase detractors have remissed. Undoubtedly, the turboencabulator has now reached a very high level of technical development. It has been successfully used for operating nofer trunnions. In addition, whenever a barescent skor motion is required, it may be employed in conjunction with a drawn reciprocating dingle arm to reduce sinusoidal depleneration. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Energy Problem Solved! Here Comes the Turboencabulator!
Jason and Katie, What if I told you that this is part of urban legend among design engineers in the US and that it has been around for over a decade. Legend has it that GE engineers were frustrated by product managers signing off on products they had no business reviewing - mainly because they had no technical background whatsoever. According to the story, the Turboencabulator was submitted to the GE product management team and signed off as a product! I have a (fairly rare) hard copy of the full specification (not shown below), complete with a picture of the device and GE logo on the cover. It was circulated about fifteen years ago. Mike P.S. Not funny eh? Why don't you go stick your inverse reactive current where the unilateral phase detectors don't shine! :-) Jason Katie wrote: im sorry, but even as a joke it doesnt seem plausible. isnt that the goal of a good joke, to seem plausible until the punchline? this is just gibberish and has no punchline therefore is a dumb joke. - Original Message - From: Mike Redler [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2006 4:02 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Energy Problem Solved! Here Comes the Turboencabulator! The machine that makes all other machines obsolete! http://www.doc.ic.ac.uk/%7Eids/dotdot/misc/jokes/turboencabulator.txt Turboencabulator JH Quick [From The Institute of Electrical Engineers, Students Quarterly Journal 25] For a number of years now, work has has been proceeding in order to bring prefection to the crudely conceived idea of a machine that would work to not only supply inverse reactive current, for use in unilateral phase detectors, but would also be capable of automatically synchronising cardinal grammeters. Such a machine is the 'Turboencabulator'. Basically, the only new principle involved is that instead of the power being generated by the relaxive motion of conductors and fluxes, it is produced by the modial interactions of magneto- reluctance and capacitive directance. The original machine had a base-plate of prefabulated amulite, surrounded by a malleable logarithmic casing in such a way that the two spurving bearings were in direct line with the pentametric fan, the latter consisted simply of six hydrocoptic marzelvanes, so fitted to the ambifacient lunar vaneshaft that side fumbling was effectively prevented. The main winding was of the normal lotus- o-delta type placed in panendermic semiboloid solts in the stator, every seventh conductor being connected by a non-reversible termic pipe to the differential girdlespring on the 'up' end of the grammeter. Forty-one manestically placed grouting brushes were arrranged to feed into the rotor slip stream a mixture of high S-value phenyhydrobenzamine and 5 percent reminative tetraiodohexamine. Both these liquids have specific pericosities given by p=2.4 Cn where n is the diathecial evolute of retrograde temperature phase disposition and C is the Chomondeley's annual grillage coefficient. Initially, n was measured with the aid of a metapolar pilfrometer, but up to the present date nothing has been found to equal the transcetental hopper dadoscope. Electrical engineers will appreciate the difficulty of nubbing together a regurgitative purwell and a superaminative wennel-sprocket. Indeed, this proved to be a stumbling block to further development until, in 1943, it was found that the use of anhydrous nagling pins enabled a kyptonastic boiling shim to be tankered. The early attempts to construct a sufficiently robust spiral decommutator failed largely because of lack of appreciation of the large quasi-pietic stresses in the gremlin studs; the latter were specially designed to hold the roffit bars to the spamshaft. When, however, it was discovered that wending could be prevented by the simple addition of teeth to socket, almost perfect running was secured. The operating point is maintained as near as possible to the HF rem peak by constantly fromaging the bituminous spandrels. This is a distinct advance on the standard nivelsheave in that no drammock oil is required after the phase detractors have remissed. Undoubtedly, the turboencabulator has now reached a very high level of technical development. It has been successfully used for operating nofer trunnions. In addition, whenever a barescent skor motion is required, it may be employed in conjunction with a drawn reciprocating dingle arm to reduce sinusoidal depleneration. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] CEI runs PRO CARBON DIOXIDE ADS
Who is AH? I don't catch your reference? On Thursday, May 25, 2006 4:13 PM, Jason Katie wrote: wouldnt this be the 4th? i mean AH did finally fail, so the shrub would be the 4th. I always thought a good shirt would read: Secret Prisons, Cost: 1 Billion Dollars Illegally Kidnapping Foreign Citizens, Cost: 10 Billion Dollars Illegally Spying on Your Citizens, Cost: 20 Billion Transforming the US into the Third Reich: Priceless There are some things money can buy, for everything else there's Dick, Donald, and Dubya. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Energy Problem Solved! Here Comes the Turboencabulator!
fromaging the bituminous spandrels Translation: Cheesing the flammable hydrocarbon space between two arches and a horizontal molding On Thursday, May 25, 2006 4:02 PM, Mike Redler wrote: Date: Thu, 25 May 2006 17:02:49 -0400 From: Mike Redler To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] Energy Problem Solved! Here Comes the Turboencabulator! The machine that makes all other machines obsolete! http://www.doc.ic.ac.uk/%7Eids/dotdot/misc/jokes/turboencabulator.txt Turboencabulator JH Quick [From The Institute of Electrical Engineers, Students Quarterly Journal 25] For a number of years now, work has has been proceeding in order to bring prefection to the crudely conceived idea of a machine that would work to not only supply inverse reactive current, for use in unilateral phase detectors, but would also be capable of automatically synchronising cardinal grammeters. Such a machine is the 'Turboencabulator'. Basically, the only new principle involved is that instead of the power being generated by the relaxive motion of conductors and fluxes, it is produced by the modial interactions of magneto- reluctance and capacitive directance. The original machine had a base-plate of prefabulated amulite, surrounded by a malleable logarithmic casing in such a way that the two spurving bearings were in direct line with the pentametric fan, the latter consisted simply of six hydrocoptic marzelvanes, so fitted to the ambifacient lunar vaneshaft that side fumbling was effectively prevented. The main winding was of the normal lotus- o-delta type placed in panendermic semiboloid solts in the stator, every seventh conductor being connected by a non-reversible termic pipe to the differential girdlespring on the 'up' end of the grammeter. Forty-one manestically placed grouting brushes were arrranged to feed into the rotor slip stream a mixture of high S-value phenyhydrobenzamine and 5 percent reminative tetraiodohexamine. Both these liquids have specific pericosities given by p=2.4 Cn where n is the diathecial evolute of retrograde temperature phase disposition and C is the Chomondeley's annual grillage coefficient. Initially, n was measured with the aid of a metapolar pilfrometer, but up to the present date nothing has been found to equal the transcetental hopper dadoscope. Electrical engineers will appreciate the difficulty of nubbing together a regurgitative purwell and a superaminative wennel-sprocket. Indeed, this proved to be a stumbling block to further development until, in 1943, it was found that the use of anhydrous nagling pins enabled a kyptonastic boiling shim to be tankered. The early attempts to construct a sufficiently robust spiral decommutator failed largely because of lack of appreciation of the large quasi-pietic stresses in the gremlin studs; the latter were specially designed to hold the roffit bars to the spamshaft. When, however, it was discovered that wending could be prevented by the simple addition of teeth to socket, almost perfect running was secured. The operating point is maintained as near as possible to the HF rem peak by constantly fromaging the bituminous spandrels. This is a distinct advance on the standard nivelsheave in that no drammock oil is required after the phase detractors have remissed. Undoubtedly, the turboencabulator has now reached a very high level of technical development. It has been successfully used for operating nofer trunnions. In addition, whenever a barescent skor motion is required, it may be employed in conjunction with a drawn reciprocating dingle arm to reduce sinusoidal depleneration. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Energy Problem Solved! Here Comes the Turboencabulator!
Hey, guess what? My memory isn't too bad after all. Turboencabulator From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Jump to: navigation, search The term Turboencabulator refers to a non-existent machine whose alleged existence became part of an in-joke or Professional humor amongst Electrical Engineers. The turboencabulator was described by "J.H.Quick" The Institute of Electrical Engineers, Students Quarterly Journal 25 (London), p184 in 1955 [1]. Most of the terms in the description were made up, but technical sounding, to fool the unknowing. The device was said to measure "Inverse Reactive Current". General Electric became the victim of a practical joke when several engineers slipped a data sheet for a Turboencabulator into GE's 1962/1963 product catalog [2]. According to folklore, GE only learned of the prank after receiving inquiries about the advertised product. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turboencabulator ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Energy Problem Solved! Here Comes the Turboencabulator!
You couldn't build anything from this document anyway. The original was made of crapalloy of which there is no mention! Mike Joe Street wrote: That's so old! I built one of those years ago in my basement. The problem is that the framistrap let go from the firmathrottle which overramped the nucleomodulator resulting in a total meltdown. I never got my money back! Be warned. J Mike Redler wrote: The machine that makes all other machines obsolete! http://www.doc.ic.ac.uk/%7Eids/dotdot/misc/jokes/turboencabulator.txt Turboencabulator JH Quick [From The Institute of Electrical Engineers, Students Quarterly Journal 25] For a number of years now, work has has been proceeding in order to bring prefection to the crudely conceived idea of a machine that would work to not only supply inverse reactive current, for use in unilateral phase detectors, but would also be capable of automatically synchronising cardinal grammeters. Such a machine is the 'Turboencabulator'. Basically, the only new principle involved is that instead of the power being generated by the relaxive motion of conductors and fluxes, it is produced by the modial interactions of magneto- reluctance and capacitive directance. The original machine had a base-plate of prefabulated amulite, surrounded by a malleable logarithmic casing in such a way that the two spurving bearings were in direct line with the pentametric fan, the latter consisted simply of six hydrocoptic marzelvanes, so fitted to the ambifacient lunar vaneshaft that side fumbling was effectively prevented. The main winding was of the normal lotus- o-delta type placed in panendermic semiboloid solts in the stator, every seventh conductor being connected by a non-reversible termic pipe to the differential girdlespring on the 'up' end of the grammeter. Forty-one manestically placed grouting brushes were arrranged to feed into the rotor slip stream a mixture of high S-value phenyhydrobenzamine and 5 percent reminative tetraiodohexamine. Both these liquids have specific pericosities given by p=2.4 Cn where n is the diathecial evolute of retrograde temperature phase disposition and C is the Chomondeley's annual grillage coefficient. Initially, n was measured with the aid of a metapolar pilfrometer, but up to the present date nothing has been found to equal the transcetental hopper dadoscope. Electrical engineers will appreciate the difficulty of nubbing together a regurgitative purwell and a superaminative wennel-sprocket. Indeed, this proved to be a stumbling block to further development until, in 1943, it was found that the use of anhydrous nagling pins enabled a kyptonastic boiling shim to be tankered. The early attempts to construct a sufficiently robust spiral decommutator failed largely because of lack of appreciation of the large quasi-pietic stresses in the gremlin studs; the latter were specially designed to hold the roffit bars to the spamshaft. When, however, it was discovered that wending could be prevented by the simple addition of teeth to socket, almost perfect running was secured. The operating point is maintained as near as possible to the HF rem peak by constantly fromaging the bituminous spandrels. This is a distinct advance on the standard nivelsheave in that no drammock oil is required after the phase detractors have remissed. Undoubtedly, the turboencabulator has now reached a very high level of technical development. It has been successfully used for operating nofer trunnions. In addition, whenever a barescent skor motion is required, it may be employed in conjunction with a drawn reciprocating dingle arm to reduce sinusoidal depleneration. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Energy Problem Solved! Here Comes the Turboencabulator!
Everyone knows you need to rectify the Dilithium crystals BEFORE they go into theframistrap. Duh! Mine works fine. Mike Redler wrote: You couldn't build anything from this document anyway. The original was made of crapalloy of which there is no mention! Mike Joe Street wrote: That's so old! I built one of those years ago in my basement. The problem is that the framistrap let go from the firmathrottle which overramped the nucleomodulator resulting in a total meltdown. I never got my money back! Be warned. J Mike Redler wrote: The machine that makes all other machines obsolete! http://www.doc.ic.ac.uk/%7Eids/dotdot/misc/jokes/turboencabulator.txt Turboencabulator JH Quick [From The Institute of Electrical Engineers, Students Quarterly Journal 25] For a number of years now, work has has been proceeding in order to bring prefection to the crudely conceived idea of a machine that would work to not only supply inverse reactive current, for use in unilateral phase detectors, but would also be capable of automatically synchronising cardinal grammeters. Such a machine is the 'Turboencabulator'. Basically, the only new principle involved is that instead of the power being generated by the relaxive motion of conductors and fluxes, it is produced by the modial interactions of magneto- reluctance and capacitive directance. The original machine had a base-plate of prefabulated amulite, surrounded by a malleable logarithmic casing in such a way that the two spurving bearings were in direct line with the pentametric fan, the latter consisted simply of six hydrocoptic marzelvanes, so fitted to the ambifacient lunar vaneshaft that side fumbling was effectively prevented. The main winding was of the normal lotus- o-delta type placed in panendermic semiboloid solts in the stator, every seventh conductor being connected by a non-reversible termic pipe to the differential girdlespring on the 'up' end of the grammeter. Forty-one manestically placed grouting brushes were arrranged to feed into the rotor slip stream a mixture of high S-value phenyhydrobenzamine and 5 percent reminative tetraiodohexamine. Both these liquids have specific pericosities given by p=2.4 Cn where n is the diathecial evolute of retrograde temperature phase disposition and C is the Chomondeley's annual grillage coefficient. Initially, n was measured with the aid of a metapolar pilfrometer, but up to the present date nothing has been found to equal the transcetental hopper dadoscope. Electrical engineers will appreciate the difficulty of nubbing together a regurgitative purwell and a superaminative wennel-sprocket. Indeed, this proved to be a stumbling block to further development until, in 1943, it was found that the use of anhydrous nagling pins enabled a kyptonastic boiling shim to be tankered. The early attempts to construct a sufficiently robust spiral decommutator failed largely because of lack of appreciation of the large quasi-pietic stresses in the gremlin studs; the latter were specially designed to hold the roffit bars to the spamshaft. When, however, it was discovered that wending could be prevented by the simple addition of teeth to socket, almost perfect running was secured. The operating point is maintained as near as possible to the HF rem peak by constantly fromaging the bituminous spandrels. This is a distinct advance on the standard nivelsheave in that no drammock oil is required after the phase detractors have remissed. Undoubtedly, the turboencabulator has now reached a very high level of technical development. It has been successfully used for operating nofer trunnions. In addition, whenever a barescent skor motion is required, it may be employed in conjunction with a drawn reciprocating dingle arm to reduce sinusoidal depleneration. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] MIKesol pretreatment and washing
Dear Mr. Smartypants Street: Ebay is selling THE EXACT SAME Orthagonal magnets for 399.00! So your little scheme won't work. We're on to you. Joe Street wrote: Outrage is not allowed. BTW kitty litter is EXPENSIVE. Orthagonal magnets are permanent and work better anyways. A one time up front investment of 1000 dollars or 4 easy payments of 599.99 and you can make all the fuel you will ever need from ditch swill. Forget about veggie oil. Those days are over. Taking orders nowand if you call now you get a free magnetic water softener. Limited time offer. Call now. J Mike Weaver wrote: Well, I for one am completely outraged about every single post in the last two years. Besides, if you people haven't figured out you can wash biodisel with kitty litter and skip the water all together, well, it's not as if I didn't warn you. I will be taking out a patent on this and selling it on Ebay so the list and JtF will soon be irrelevant. Mike soon to be a large faceless corporation Weaver Keith Addison wrote: Chris Bennett was certainly angry. He posted his last message and I just got the notice that he unsubscribed shortly afterwards, before I posted my reply, below. That's ridiculous. Oh well. Best of luck to him. Best Keith Hello Chris Keith Addison wrote: You seem rather cross, Chris. Not at all, lol, :-) If you insist. Try reading it again (like you had to read what I'd said again - but I think you should read that again too). Very common to back off and use an lol as a cover when people overreact. There's a wide disconnect between what I said and your angry response to it, and now you're trying to stretch what I said to cover the gap. Lots of confusion as a result, and my original post that you're interpreting every which way rather than reading the damn' thing has gone missing in action, so I'll put it back, here it is: Something to add might be whether Magnesol really does give the same results. If it's time-saving that's the aim there are ways round that without becoming more dependent on anyone. I don't accept it gives better-quality results unless maybe you're starting with a poorly completed product, in which case the magnesol is just masking the problem (like mist-washing). You can easily get within the standard specs with well-made homebrew biodiesel plus a few hours spent stir-washing it. If you GC'd the result and compared it with a sample of the same batch of homebrew dry-washed with Magnesol, what would it show? Has anybody seen such results? Okay? I just get the impression :-) It's wasn't a very impressionistic piece of writing. that it was you opinion that using anything other than water for cleaning biodiesel was a big 'no no'. The way your response came across read to me like that. I apologise if I misread you. Apology accepted, but you still are misreading it. If you still see it as a dismissal rather than a question then I'd have to ask why you dislike the question so much. Biofuels makes the best sense when production is localised and therefore necessarily adapted to local conditions (even the US military thinks that these days). That means the Appropriate Technology approach, and *that* means K.I.S.S., on the one hand, and optimal use of locally available, renewable resources on the other, such as water - whether it's scarce or not is a local condition and doesn't change the principle. So, yes, there will be resistance to relying on anything extra that doesn't meet those criteria, especially if top-quality fuel production is a simple matter without it. If you're not aware of this background then that's your problem. Finding it introduced when you're not expecting it may not be a pleasant surprise, but concluding that it means we don't do biofuels discussions here and you might as well go somewhere else with your nose in the air is kind of preposterous. But it's up to you of course, feel free. I reached no such conclusion. I expressed a valid doubt and asked for some evidence. The burden of proof is not on me nor on the consumer when the makers of a commercial product make claims for it, it's on them. I don't accept it gives better-quality results unless maybe you're starting with a poorly completed product, in which case the magnesol is just masking the problem (like mist-washing). I read this as you opinion Not so. If I'd said it doesn't give better-quality results, that would be an opinion. But I said I didn't accept it and asked for test results that would tell one way or the other. That's a question. I expressed a valid doubt and asked for some evidence. What you read into that, what it suggests to you, the impression you get from it, is that I'm rejecting
Re: [Biofuel] Energy Problem Solved! Here Comes the Turboencabulator!
Hello Mike. Even thou my mother language is not English I enjoyed this mixed up technical wording paraphernalia. Somebody with not full attention on the description would think this is a real thing, LOL. Best Regards. Juan -Mensaje original- De: Mike Redler [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Enviado el: jueves 25 de mayo de 2006 17:03 Para: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Asunto: [Biofuel] Energy Problem Solved! Here Comes the Turboencabulator! The machine that makes all other machines obsolete! http://www.doc.ic.ac.uk/%7Eids/dotdot/misc/jokes/turboencabulator.txt Turboencabulator JH Quick [From The Institute of Electrical Engineers, Students Quarterly Journal 25] For a number of years now, work has has been proceeding in order to bring prefection to the crudely conceived idea of a machine that would work to not only supply inverse reactive current, for use in unilateral phase detectors, but would also be capable of automatically synchronising cardinal grammeters. Such a machine is the 'Turboencabulator'. Basically, the only new principle involved is that instead of the power being generated by the relaxive motion of conductors and fluxes, it is produced by the modial interactions of magneto- reluctance and capacitive directance. The original machine had a base-plate of prefabulated amulite, surrounded by a malleable logarithmic casing in such a way that the two spurving bearings were in direct line with the pentametric fan, the latter consisted simply of six hydrocoptic marzelvanes, so fitted to the ambifacient lunar vaneshaft that side fumbling was effectively prevented. The main winding was of the normal lotus- o-delta type placed in panendermic semiboloid solts in the stator, every seventh conductor being connected by a non-reversible termic pipe to the differential girdlespring on the 'up' end of the grammeter. Forty-one manestically placed grouting brushes were arrranged to feed into the rotor slip stream a mixture of high S-value phenyhydrobenzamine and 5 percent reminative tetraiodohexamine. Both these liquids have specific pericosities given by p=2.4 Cn where n is the diathecial evolute of retrograde temperature phase disposition and C is the Chomondeley's annual grillage coefficient. Initially, n was measured with the aid of a metapolar pilfrometer, but up to the present date nothing has been found to equal the transcetental hopper dadoscope. Electrical engineers will appreciate the difficulty of nubbing together a regurgitative purwell and a superaminative wennel-sprocket. Indeed, this proved to be a stumbling block to further development until, in 1943, it was found that the use of anhydrous nagling pins enabled a kyptonastic boiling shim to be tankered. The early attempts to construct a sufficiently robust spiral decommutator failed largely because of lack of appreciation of the large quasi-pietic stresses in the gremlin studs; the latter were specially designed to hold the roffit bars to the spamshaft. When, however, it was discovered that wending could be prevented by the simple addition of teeth to socket, almost perfect running was secured. The operating point is maintained as near as possible to the HF rem peak by constantly fromaging the bituminous spandrels. This is a distinct advance on the standard nivelsheave in that no drammock oil is required after the phase detractors have remissed. Undoubtedly, the turboencabulator has now reached a very high level of technical development. It has been successfully used for operating nofer trunnions. In addition, whenever a barescent skor motion is required, it may be employed in conjunction with a drawn reciprocating dingle arm to reduce sinusoidal depleneration. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Energy Problem Solved! Here Comes the Turboencabulator!
prefabulated amulite, modial, and pentametric? You don't think that's funny? Come on, amulite and pentametric would cause total disfambulation! Jason Katie wrote: im sorry, but even as a joke it doesnt seem plausible. isnt that the goal of a good joke, to seem plausible until the punchline? this is just gibberish and has no punchline therefore is a dumb joke. - Original Message - From: Mike Redler [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2006 4:02 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Energy Problem Solved! Here Comes the Turboencabulator! The machine that makes all other machines obsolete! http://www.doc.ic.ac.uk/%7Eids/dotdot/misc/jokes/turboencabulator.txt Turboencabulator JH Quick [From The Institute of Electrical Engineers, Students Quarterly Journal 25] For a number of years now, work has has been proceeding in order to bring prefection to the crudely conceived idea of a machine that would work to not only supply inverse reactive current, for use in unilateral phase detectors, but would also be capable of automatically synchronising cardinal grammeters. Such a machine is the 'Turboencabulator'. Basically, the only new principle involved is that instead of the power being generated by the relaxive motion of conductors and fluxes, it is produced by the modial interactions of magneto- reluctance and capacitive directance. The original machine had a base-plate of prefabulated amulite, surrounded by a malleable logarithmic casing in such a way that the two spurving bearings were in direct line with the pentametric fan, the latter consisted simply of six hydrocoptic marzelvanes, so fitted to the ambifacient lunar vaneshaft that side fumbling was effectively prevented. The main winding was of the normal lotus- o-delta type placed in panendermic semiboloid solts in the stator, every seventh conductor being connected by a non-reversible termic pipe to the differential girdlespring on the 'up' end of the grammeter. Forty-one manestically placed grouting brushes were arrranged to feed into the rotor slip stream a mixture of high S-value phenyhydrobenzamine and 5 percent reminative tetraiodohexamine. Both these liquids have specific pericosities given by p=2.4 Cn where n is the diathecial evolute of retrograde temperature phase disposition and C is the Chomondeley's annual grillage coefficient. Initially, n was measured with the aid of a metapolar pilfrometer, but up to the present date nothing has been found to equal the transcetental hopper dadoscope. Electrical engineers will appreciate the difficulty of nubbing together a regurgitative purwell and a superaminative wennel-sprocket. Indeed, this proved to be a stumbling block to further development until, in 1943, it was found that the use of anhydrous nagling pins enabled a kyptonastic boiling shim to be tankered. The early attempts to construct a sufficiently robust spiral decommutator failed largely because of lack of appreciation of the large quasi-pietic stresses in the gremlin studs; the latter were specially designed to hold the roffit bars to the spamshaft. When, however, it was discovered that wending could be prevented by the simple addition of teeth to socket, almost perfect running was secured. The operating point is maintained as near as possible to the HF rem peak by constantly fromaging the bituminous spandrels. This is a distinct advance on the standard nivelsheave in that no drammock oil is required after the phase detractors have remissed. Undoubtedly, the turboencabulator has now reached a very high level of technical development. It has been successfully used for operating nofer trunnions. In addition, whenever a barescent skor motion is required, it may be employed in conjunction with a drawn reciprocating dingle arm to reduce sinusoidal depleneration. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.7.1/347 - Release Date: 5/24/2006 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at
Re: [Biofuel] Energy Problem Solved! Here Comes the Turboencabulator!
Si, come no. Creo que si Miguel Juan Boveda wrote: Hello Mike. Even thou my mother language is not English I enjoyed this mixed up technical wording paraphernalia. Somebody with not full attention on the description would think this is a real thing, LOL. Best Regards. Juan -Mensaje original- De:Mike Redler [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Enviado el:jueves 25 de mayo de 2006 17:03 Para: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Asunto:[Biofuel] Energy Problem Solved! Here Comes the Turboencabulator! The machine that makes all other machines obsolete! http://www.doc.ic.ac.uk/%7Eids/dotdot/misc/jokes/turboencabulator.txt Turboencabulator JH Quick [From The Institute of Electrical Engineers, Students Quarterly Journal 25] For a number of years now, work has has been proceeding in order to bring prefection to the crudely conceived idea of a machine that would work to not only supply inverse reactive current, for use in unilateral phase detectors, but would also be capable of automatically synchronising cardinal grammeters. Such a machine is the 'Turboencabulator'. Basically, the only new principle involved is that instead of the power being generated by the relaxive motion of conductors and fluxes, it is produced by the modial interactions of magneto- reluctance and capacitive directance. The original machine had a base-plate of prefabulated amulite, surrounded by a malleable logarithmic casing in such a way that the two spurving bearings were in direct line with the pentametric fan, the latter consisted simply of six hydrocoptic marzelvanes, so fitted to the ambifacient lunar vaneshaft that side fumbling was effectively prevented. The main winding was of the normal lotus- o-delta type placed in panendermic semiboloid solts in the stator, every seventh conductor being connected by a non-reversible termic pipe to the differential girdlespring on the 'up' end of the grammeter. Forty-one manestically placed grouting brushes were arrranged to feed into the rotor slip stream a mixture of high S-value phenyhydrobenzamine and 5 percent reminative tetraiodohexamine. Both these liquids have specific pericosities given by p=2.4 Cn where n is the diathecial evolute of retrograde temperature phase disposition and C is the Chomondeley's annual grillage coefficient. Initially, n was measured with the aid of a metapolar pilfrometer, but up to the present date nothing has been found to equal the transcetental hopper dadoscope. Electrical engineers will appreciate the difficulty of nubbing together a regurgitative purwell and a superaminative wennel-sprocket. Indeed, this proved to be a stumbling block to further development until, in 1943, it was found that the use of anhydrous nagling pins enabled a kyptonastic boiling shim to be tankered. The early attempts to construct a sufficiently robust spiral decommutator failed largely because of lack of appreciation of the large quasi-pietic stresses in the gremlin studs; the latter were specially designed to hold the roffit bars to the spamshaft. When, however, it was discovered that wending could be prevented by the simple addition of teeth to socket, almost perfect running was secured. The operating point is maintained as near as possible to the HF rem peak by constantly fromaging the bituminous spandrels. This is a distinct advance on the standard nivelsheave in that no drammock oil is required after the phase detractors have remissed. Undoubtedly, the turboencabulator has now reached a very high level of technical development. It has been successfully used for operating nofer trunnions. In addition, whenever a barescent skor motion is required, it may be employed in conjunction with a drawn reciprocating dingle arm to reduce sinusoidal depleneration. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Governments role in society.
While it's not that important, I wasn't who asked ...how do we empower those with decent character??. I didn't used the word character. What I did write was in the end it all depends on, the character of those in power. I wasn't trying to define decent character??, just commenting it depends on the character of those in power. We humans are a morally ambiguous lot, so it's hard to get a consensus on what's right across the board. Way too many of us(speaking of the world as a whole)talk a good story, however when it comes to putting the shovel in the dirt many ifs- buts-ands come up. :( Doug, N0LKK Kansas USA Mike Redler wrote: It only depends on the character of people in power when the majority of citizens don't participate in decisions effecting their (our) future. We have become such a patriarchal society that we just hope that the character of our leader is to our liking - and that's nauseating. Doug said: ...how do we empower those with decent character?? How do WE BECOME EMPOWERED to remove them when they don't act in our best interest (and without waiting for an election year)? Character alludes to someone with good intentions and a willingness to do the right thing. That doesn't mean they actually know how. When that happens, our society needs to respond and tell government how they could better SERVE US. Mike ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Government's role in society.
I suppose it has to do with the original thread , 4) All Funding for the expenses of government to come from Business and Corporation only. (this means it would be unlawfully to tax the populace) as a reply to Mike Weaver and D No point really other that this was a part of our constitution. Mike Redler wrote: True. But, I'm not sure I see your point Jim. Mike JJJN wrote: I am not sure of this but in the beginning didn't the Constitution require that the Government was to be funded by buisness and trade? And did not the victory tax come to be our first income tax? Jim Mike Weaver wrote: We've been through similar periods before...railroads, steel, Standard oil, Airlines... Michael Redler wrote: Jim wrote: I really don't mind corporations, and I like to see them make a profit when it means prosperity for all. *Divided World: Rich Live Longer, Poor Die Younger* http://www.commondreams.org/headlines/062900-01.htm Those who want wealth, will have it. Since there is no individual who's work represents hundreds of times the value of his/her employees, you arrive at two simple conclusions - that corporations are a means of building wealth off the backs of others and that those who own those corporations are obsessed with building empires and monuments to themselves, off the backs of others. The size of a corporation is a measure of the ambition to build that empire and monument. The only thing that can fight the devastating effects of corporate greed is public consensus and a movement built from that consensus. The sooner that greed effects public policy and makes enough people suffer, the sooner the public will wake up to what's going on around them and react to it. Mike */JJJN [EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote: I really don't mind corporations, and I like to see them make a profit when it means prosperity for all, I just dont like the powers in Govrnment to be persuaded and corrupted by those profits. Yes this one needs some work, Thanks Jim D. Mindock wrote: Hi Jim, I think number 4 could be dangerous. What if a corporation wanted to withhold their taxes for some reason? I'd modify number 5: 5) Government through representation of the people by the people. to this: 5) Government through representation of only the people, by only the people, for only the people. (No wiggle room on this one) And I'd add another article that strongly limits what is really the root of all our problems, the immoral/unethical, inhumane influence of multinational corporations which now control most of the world's governments and indirectly, their people. This is the elephant in the room, imo. Corporations are not people or a person and deserve no special treatment. The welfare of the people should be paramount to all considerations. In this vein, the environment is part and parcel of the welfare of the people. You can't ignore it or trash it without it coming back to ruin your day, and your life. Corporations, as a rule, don't give a hoot about the environment. We are all stuck on a small planet that is getter more polluted every day. The oceans are loaded with PCBs and mercury. This cannot continue without devastating consequences for all living things. So, an article that explicitly encourages/enforces a healthy environment should, imo, be added. I think it is that important. Peace, D. Mindock - Original Message - From: Doug Younker To: Sent: Monday, May 22, 2006 1:39 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Governments role in society. [snip] ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] MIKesol pretreatment and washing
I just passed out on the floor rolling, thanks for the laugh. Jesse From: Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Date: Thu, 25 May 2006 18:28:57 -0400 To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] MIKesol pretreatment and washing Dear Mr. Smartypants Street: Ebay is selling THE EXACT SAME Orthagonal magnets for 399.00! So your little scheme won't work. We're on to you. Joe Street wrote: Outrage is not allowed. BTW kitty litter is EXPENSIVE. Orthagonal magnets are permanent and work better anyways. A one time up front investment of 1000 dollars or 4 easy payments of 599.99 and you can make all the fuel you will ever need from ditch swill. Forget about veggie oil. Those days are over. Taking orders nowand if you call now you get a free magnetic water softener. Limited time offer. Call now. J Mike Weaver wrote: Well, I for one am completely outraged about every single post in the last two years. Besides, if you people haven't figured out you can wash biodisel with kitty litter and skip the water all together, well, it's not as if I didn't warn you. I will be taking out a patent on this and selling it on Ebay so the list and JtF will soon be irrelevant. Mike soon to be a large faceless corporation Weaver Keith Addison wrote: Chris Bennett was certainly angry. He posted his last message and I just got the notice that he unsubscribed shortly afterwards, before I posted my reply, below. That's ridiculous. Oh well. Best of luck to him. Best Keith Hello Chris Keith Addison wrote: You seem rather cross, Chris. Not at all, lol, :-) If you insist. Try reading it again (like you had to read what I'd said again - but I think you should read that again too). Very common to back off and use an lol as a cover when people overreact. There's a wide disconnect between what I said and your angry response to it, and now you're trying to stretch what I said to cover the gap. Lots of confusion as a result, and my original post that you're interpreting every which way rather than reading the damn' thing has gone missing in action, so I'll put it back, here it is: Something to add might be whether Magnesol really does give the same results. If it's time-saving that's the aim there are ways round that without becoming more dependent on anyone. I don't accept it gives better-quality results unless maybe you're starting with a poorly completed product, in which case the magnesol is just masking the problem (like mist-washing). You can easily get within the standard specs with well-made homebrew biodiesel plus a few hours spent stir-washing it. If you GC'd the result and compared it with a sample of the same batch of homebrew dry-washed with Magnesol, what would it show? Has anybody seen such results? Okay? I just get the impression :-) It's wasn't a very impressionistic piece of writing. that it was you opinion that using anything other than water for cleaning biodiesel was a big 'no no'. The way your response came across read to me like that. I apologise if I misread you. Apology accepted, but you still are misreading it. If you still see it as a dismissal rather than a question then I'd have to ask why you dislike the question so much. Biofuels makes the best sense when production is localised and therefore necessarily adapted to local conditions (even the US military thinks that these days). That means the Appropriate Technology approach, and *that* means K.I.S.S., on the one hand, and optimal use of locally available, renewable resources on the other, such as water - whether it's scarce or not is a local condition and doesn't change the principle. So, yes, there will be resistance to relying on anything extra that doesn't meet those criteria, especially if top-quality fuel production is a simple matter without it. If you're not aware of this background then that's your problem. Finding it introduced when you're not expecting it may not be a pleasant surprise, but concluding that it means we don't do biofuels discussions here and you might as well go somewhere else with your nose in the air is kind of preposterous. But it's up to you of course, feel free. I reached no such conclusion. I expressed a valid doubt and asked for some evidence. The burden of proof is not on me nor on the consumer when the makers of a commercial product make claims for it, it's on them. I don't accept it gives better-quality results unless maybe you're starting with a poorly completed product, in which case the magnesol is just masking the problem (like mist-washing). I read this as you opinion Not so. If I'd said it doesn't give better-quality results, that would be an opinion. But I said I
Re: [Biofuel] MIKesol pretreatment and washing
We need a good laugh every so often! mark manchester wrote: I just passed out on the floor rolling, thanks for the laugh. Jesse From: Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Date: Thu, 25 May 2006 18:28:57 -0400 To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] MIKesol pretreatment and washing Dear Mr. Smartypants Street: Ebay is selling THE EXACT SAME Orthagonal magnets for 399.00! So your little scheme won't work. We're on to you. Joe Street wrote: Outrage is not allowed. BTW kitty litter is EXPENSIVE. Orthagonal magnets are permanent and work better anyways. A one time up front investment of 1000 dollars or 4 easy payments of 599.99 and you can make all the fuel you will ever need from ditch swill. Forget about veggie oil. Those days are over. Taking orders nowand if you call now you get a free magnetic water softener. Limited time offer. Call now. J Mike Weaver wrote: Well, I for one am completely outraged about every single post in the last two years. Besides, if you people haven't figured out you can wash biodisel with kitty litter and skip the water all together, well, it's not as if I didn't warn you. I will be taking out a patent on this and selling it on Ebay so the list and JtF will soon be irrelevant. Mike soon to be a large faceless corporation Weaver Keith Addison wrote: Chris Bennett was certainly angry. He posted his last message and I just got the notice that he unsubscribed shortly afterwards, before I posted my reply, below. That's ridiculous. Oh well. Best of luck to him. Best Keith Hello Chris Keith Addison wrote: You seem rather cross, Chris. Not at all, lol, :-) If you insist. Try reading it again (like you had to read what I'd said again - but I think you should read that again too). Very common to back off and use an lol as a cover when people overreact. There's a wide disconnect between what I said and your angry response to it, and now you're trying to stretch what I said to cover the gap. Lots of confusion as a result, and my original post that you're interpreting every which way rather than reading the damn' thing has gone missing in action, so I'll put it back, here it is: Something to add might be whether Magnesol really does give the same results. If it's time-saving that's the aim there are ways round that without becoming more dependent on anyone. I don't accept it gives better-quality results unless maybe you're starting with a poorly completed product, in which case the magnesol is just masking the problem (like mist-washing). You can easily get within the standard specs with well-made homebrew biodiesel plus a few hours spent stir-washing it. If you GC'd the result and compared it with a sample of the same batch of homebrew dry-washed with Magnesol, what would it show? Has anybody seen such results? Okay? I just get the impression :-) It's wasn't a very impressionistic piece of writing. that it was you opinion that using anything other than water for cleaning biodiesel was a big 'no no'. The way your response came across read to me like that. I apologise if I misread you. Apology accepted, but you still are misreading it. If you still see it as a dismissal rather than a question then I'd have to ask why you dislike the question so much. Biofuels makes the best sense when production is localised and therefore necessarily adapted to local conditions (even the US military thinks that these days). That means the Appropriate Technology approach, and *that* means K.I.S.S., on the one hand, and optimal use of locally available, renewable resources on the other, such as water - whether it's scarce or not is a local condition and doesn't change the principle. So, yes, there will be resistance to relying on anything extra that doesn't meet those criteria, especially if top-quality fuel production is a simple matter without it. If you're not aware of this background then that's your problem. Finding it introduced when you're not expecting it may not be a pleasant surprise, but concluding that it means we don't do biofuels discussions here and you might as well go somewhere else with your nose in the air is kind of preposterous. But it's up to you of course, feel free. I reached no such conclusion. I expressed a valid doubt and asked for some evidence. The burden of proof is not on me nor on the consumer when the makers of a commercial product make claims for it, it's on them. I don't accept it gives better-quality results unless maybe you're starting with a poorly completed product, in which case the magnesol is just masking the problem (like mist-washing). I read this as you
Re: [Biofuel] Government's role in society.
Mike, Mike Redler wrote: Jim, Your statement puts all forms of business into one category (i.e. IBM with the village baker) and redirects the discussion toward all forms of trade. This is a direction that I won't be led into. No it does not, that happens in your mind, but it does put COKE energy and Enron in the same boat along with many of these BIG forms of Government. Corruption and greed are not unique to Corporations only thats what I am saying. (that includes the Baker) The point I made directly addresses the wealth and power accumulated as human labor becomes a commodity and corporate executives become the beneficiary of that commodity. The less labor costs, the more profit is made. More importantly, when money and power reach the highest levels of government and do so as a representative of businesses who profit from cheap labor, what's left to protect working families? But this is a function of free enterprize and to eliminate it would require an increadibly fair wise and just King or some other form of goernment that could regulate without corruption LOL As I said before, corporate executives who are paid hundreds of times more than the salary of their employees, are living proof of the imbalance which big business imposes on a government (supposedly) created to protect all of it's citizens. Thats right. I am not blind I know who really runs US and the UK and all the other countrys that exist on this globe. So whats the answer? Is there one? Jim Mike JJJN wrote: Mike, A Corporation is only a form of a business along with Limited Liability partnerships, a dozen or so hybrid forms and Sole proprietors ships any one is only as good as those that lead it. What is your solution? where do you stop? Ban all forms of trade? I don't like the greed and abuse either, but I am practical enough to understand that not every Corporation is run by an evil twin to Enron. I also understand what you are saying that there need to be much stiffer reforms in place to legislate ethics to those that are running many of them. But some how I just don't have the faith that people will wake up, and if they do I think it will be to late. Jim Michael Redler wrote: Jim wrote: I really don't mind corporations, and I like to see them make a profit when it means prosperity for all. *Divided World: Rich Live Longer, Poor Die Younger* http://www.commondreams.org/headlines/062900-01.htm Those who want wealth, will have it. Since there is no individual who's work represents hundreds of times the value of his/her employees, you arrive at two simple conclusions - that corporations are a means of building wealth off the backs of others and that those who own those corporations are obsessed with building empires and monuments to themselves, off the backs of others. The size of a corporation is a measure of the ambition to build that empire and monument. The only thing that can fight the devastating effects of corporate greed is public consensus and a movement built from that consensus. The sooner that greed effects public policy and makes enough people suffer, the sooner the public will wake up to what's going on around them and react to it. Mike */JJJN [EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote: I really don't mind corporations, and I like to see them make a profit when it means prosperity for all, I just dont like the powers in Govrnment to be persuaded and corrupted by those profits. Yes this one needs some work, Thanks Jim D. Mindock wrote: Hi Jim, I think number 4 could be dangerous. What if a corporation wanted to withhold their taxes for some reason? I'd modify number 5: 5) Government through representation of the people by the people. to this: 5) Government through representation of only the people, by only the people, for only the people. (No wiggle room on this one) And I'd add another article that strongly limits what is really the root of all our problems, the immoral/unethical, inhumane influence of multinational corporations which now control most of the world's governments and indirectly, their people. This is the elephant in the room, imo. Corporations are not people or a person and deserve no special treatment. The welfare of the people should be paramount to all considerations. In this vein, the environment is part and parcel of the welfare of the people. You can't ignore it or trash it without it coming back to ruin your day, and your life. Corporations, as a rule, don't give a hoot about the environment. We are all stuck on a small planet that is getter more polluted every day. The oceans are loaded with PCBs and mercury. This cannot continue without devastating consequences for all living things. So, an article that explicitly encourages/enforces a healthy
Re: [Biofuel] CEI runs PRO CARBON DIOXIDE ADS
most mail scanners won't write out his name, or will blank it out as such H* but he was the despot of Germany in the late 1930's and committed suicide in the mid '40's after playing a very VERY large part in starting WW2 and losing. he was a racist and a fool, and caused a lot of trouble. almost as much trouble as america is causing today. this is why we equate the present american Commander in Thief to AH - Original Message - From: DHAJOGLO [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2006 4:42 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] CEI runs PRO CARBON DIOXIDE ADS Who is AH? I don't catch your reference? On Thursday, May 25, 2006 4:13 PM, Jason Katie wrote: wouldnt this be the 4th? i mean AH did finally fail, so the shrub would be the 4th. I always thought a good shirt would read: Secret Prisons, Cost: 1 Billion Dollars Illegally Kidnapping Foreign Citizens, Cost: 10 Billion Dollars Illegally Spying on Your Citizens, Cost: 20 Billion Transforming the US into the Third Reich: Priceless There are some things money can buy, for everything else there's Dick, Donald, and Dubya. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.7.1/347 - Release Date: 5/24/2006 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Government's role in society.
I was refering the era of the robber barons. The Octopus, Frank Norris, and that whole era. I personally don't mind maying taxes, particularly as the schools in my area are good, the cops are honest, the city picks the trash and we mandate 20% biodiesel in all heavy equipment. I feel I get good value for my money. I'm not too crazy about my federal taxes lining the pockets of Halliburton and funding yet another tax break for people in the top 1%. I'm not happy about giving poil companies 10B incentives to find more oil right before they report 34 BILLION dollars in earnings. And I'm really unhappy about borrowing 1BN a week to keep Irag going? Why are we handing out tax breaks if we're already insolvent? I was speaking with a friend of mine who is in his 70's, a Pulizter-prize winning political author, and he said that never in his life, including WW2, HUAC, Cuban missle crisis and Watergate, has he been for afraid for the future of his county. Sobering thoughts. -Mike JJJN wrote: I suppose it has to do with the original thread , 4) All Funding for the expenses of government to come from Business and Corporation only. (this means it would be unlawfully to tax the populace) as a reply to Mike Weaver and D No point really other that this was a part of our constitution. Mike Redler wrote: True. But, I'm not sure I see your point Jim. Mike JJJN wrote: I am not sure of this but in the beginning didn't the Constitution require that the Government was to be funded by buisness and trade? And did not the victory tax come to be our first income tax? Jim Mike Weaver wrote: We've been through similar periods before...railroads, steel, Standard oil, Airlines... Michael Redler wrote: Jim wrote: I really don't mind corporations, and I like to see them make a profit when it means prosperity for all. *Divided World: Rich Live Longer, Poor Die Younger* http://www.commondreams.org/headlines/062900-01.htm Those who want wealth, will have it. Since there is no individual who's work represents hundreds of times the value of his/her employees, you arrive at two simple conclusions - that corporations are a means of building wealth off the backs of others and that those who own those corporations are obsessed with building empires and monuments to themselves, off the backs of others. The size of a corporation is a measure of the ambition to build that empire and monument. The only thing that can fight the devastating effects of corporate greed is public consensus and a movement built from that consensus. The sooner that greed effects public policy and makes enough people suffer, the sooner the public will wake up to what's going on around them and react to it. Mike */JJJN [EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote: I really don't mind corporations, and I like to see them make a profit when it means prosperity for all, I just dont like the powers in Govrnment to be persuaded and corrupted by those profits. Yes this one needs some work, Thanks Jim D. Mindock wrote: Hi Jim, I think number 4 could be dangerous. What if a corporation wanted to withhold their taxes for some reason? I'd modify number 5: 5) Government through representation of the people by the people. to this: 5) Government through representation of only the people, by only the people, for only the people. (No wiggle room on this one) And I'd add another article that strongly limits what is really the root of all our problems, the immoral/unethical, inhumane influence of multinational corporations which now control most of the world's governments and indirectly, their people. This is the elephant in the room, imo. Corporations are not people or a person and deserve no special treatment. The welfare of the people should be paramount to all considerations. In this vein, the environment is part and parcel of the welfare of the people. You can't ignore it or trash it without it coming back to ruin your day, and your life. Corporations, as a rule, don't give a hoot about the environment. We are all stuck on a small planet that is getter more polluted every day. The oceans are loaded with PCBs and mercury. This cannot continue without devastating consequences for all living things. So, an article that explicitly encourages/enforces a healthy environment should, imo, be added. I think it is that important. Peace, D. Mindock - Original Message - From: Doug Younker To: Sent: Monday, May 22, 2006 1:39 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Governments role in society. [snip] ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel
[Biofuel] more on aquagen water car
UofL Researcher Says Water Powered Cars Possible, But Impractical http://www.wave3.com/Global/story.asp?S=4946625nav=0RZF Get your daily alternative energy news Alternate Energy Resource Network 1000+ news sources-resources updated daily http://www.alternate-energy.net Next Generation Grid http://groups.yahoo.com/group/next_generation_grid/ Tomorrow-energy http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tomorrow-energy/ Alternative Energy Politics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Alternative_Energy_Politics/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Old toyota diesel
Hey everyone I might become the proud owner of a 1981 longbed toyota pickup with a 2.2 liter NA diesel engine. I was just wondering if any of you (Keith?) have experience with this. It'll be run on B100 of course (and maybe SVO, if I feel like installing the heated fuel system in there). It needs a little engine work (seems to have one dead piston), but the body is beautiful still, so it'll make a good second truck for our company. My mitsubishi turbodiesel pickup is the first one. No specific questions -- just seeing if anyone else has one of these. Zeke ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] MaGnesol is... was Re: Manesol pretreatment and washing
Chris, Anything beyond the personal production level is going to require industrial filtration in order keep up with the finished product output.. I'd venture to say even as low as 100 gpd would warrant a filter press. The manufacturer claims disposal by composting, the filters are non consumable. I think this idea of composting such material is getting way out of hand, at any level. This stuff, soaps, FFAs and partially reacted glycerides, doesn't readily compost.. It's essentially an oily mess that kills good composting. Almost better to put the filtrate in a solid fuels boiler I think that in the case of Magnesol, or at least if it's incorporated universally, whether wet washing is viable at a location or not, is an example of the enemy of good is better. Of what value is better fuel wherever another wash option exists if the process proves to be more wasteful in the long run? As they are to treat and pump water, and to treat sewerage. I agree it would be nice to know the true energy costs, but where do you stop? I remember at Uni reading a paper about nuclear power stations. A group of students started doing energy calculations, I believe an equally worthwhile question is Where do you start? To my knowledge no one has produced an energy inputs comparison for the two washing processes, Nor has anyone done an effluents analysis between the two. A) Water is universal, by and large. Tell that to those people in S England who face having theirs turned off soon! ;-)) Instances such as this might be where the qualifier by and large comes in, no? I have nothing else to do with my wash water but to put it down the drain. That's putting part of the cost of your fuel production upon the pockets of others. Perhaps not a large cost, but it violates a general principle of cradle to grave. Industry does this all the time. Are you sure you want to head in the same direction? If you're producing just for yourself and have a front or back lawn, you've got ample space to dispose of treated gray water. You could even cistern it and use it during a dry spell. Or maybe not in your case. But the principles are there and it wouldn't hurt if we all adhered to them as well as possible. Erm, sorry you have lost me, what is resfresh? ;-) It comes from accompanying English/grammar volume to George Bush's Fuzzy Math. Should have been refresh. Todd Swearingen Chris Bennett wrote: Appal Energy wrote: B) Use of Magnesol marries the manufacturer to a vendor. I believe there are alternative brands of synthetic magnesium silicate on the market, several at a lower cost. I am currently looking into this, several posts on online forums suggest this also. C) Rather costly filter presses are required to remove Magnesol from the fuel stream. Not exactly. A cheap and readlily available sock filter and gravity will do the trick with very little investment. There are commercially available filter units which are big bucks, but in the spirit of the JTF site I doubt many people here would have any difficulty in suspending a 5 micron sock filter over a collecting drum. Wont look as nice as a commercially bought stainless filter unit, but thats not always an issue. The units I have seen in the commercial sector are simply a stainelss enclosure taking a £9.99 for 10 sock filter and a pump. D) Expended Magnesol must be handled as a solid waste, inclusive of the filtrate. The manufacturer claims disposal by composting, the filters are non consumable. E) Energy expenditures are required to manufacture and transport synthetic magnesium silicate (Magnesol). As they are to treat and pump water, and to treat sewerage. I agree it would be nice to know the true energy costs, but where do you stop? I remember at Uni reading a paper about nuclear power stations. A group of students started doing energy calculations, adding up everything it took to run a power plant (and I mean everything!!) right down to the fuel used to transport materials to the brickworks to make the bricks to build the plant! They concluded that they couldnt possibly have factored in all the energy, but on what they had it was something like a 25-30 year running time before the break even point was reached!! On the water side: A) Water is universal, by and large. Tell that to those people in S England who face having theirs turned off soon! ;-)) B) Water has a dual utility, as easily treated wash water can be reused as gray water irrigation. Assuming that you are in the situation where you need irrigation, if not then it is going to get drained. Not being critical of your comments at all, just factoring in my situation, which is probably the same as many here. I have nothing else to do with my wash water but to put it down the drain. All in all they both have their place. Neither is necessarily superior over
Re: [Biofuel] Police Brutality in Ohio
I never attended public school, so I may have inadvertently learned something I wasn't supposed to. A very high probability factor to that thought process... Zeke Yewdall wrote: Hey! I wasn't born till '78, but I know what Kent state was, the weathermen, the moon shot, vietnam war, and alot of the stuff you are talking about. I didn't experience them, but isn't that why they teach history in school? Or do they? I never attended public school, so I may have inadvertently learned something I wasn't supposed to. Zeke On 5/25/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Keith asked below: If you say Kent State in the US now, does it still carry that connotation? That's all it means to me and I'm sure a great many others, but does it still mean anything in the US, or is it just the name of a college now? Keith, The younger generations under say about 45 years now were to young or not born yet to remember it and it is rarely if ever discussed now. Most of them have never heard of Kent State. I actually still have an authentic Kent State T-Shirt, but unfortunately it is about 6 sizes to small for me now. My older brother was teaching Physics at Ohio State Univ back in those days and sent me one here in Houston when I was barely a teenager (8th-9th grade?) anxiously waiting for my turn in the meat grinder when I turned 18. How quickly we forget. Related story, example: I was taking a college physics class back in 1992 when the professor starting talking about, remembering the day we landed on the moon, in 1969. He was astonished at all the 20 year old blank stares in the class (except mine, as I was 14 at the time in 1969, and I was the only 37 year old student in the class) and he realized they had not been born yet back in 1969. Most of them did not even know that we had ever landed on the MOON!!! Part of the problem is that the high school and grade school curriculum here lags behind by about 30 years (text books, bureaucracy, oversight...) and these kids totally miss the most recent history of the prior 10 to 25 years. They might hear of Kent State in a college ethics class from a thesis presentation if their lucky. I was a bit young then, but as I recall it was a major, MAJOR turning point and public awaking in this country as a result of the Kent State Massacre (as I recall that is what we called it then). National TV coverage of it played an important part in it too. Best, Mike McGinness -Original Message- From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: May 25, 2006 1:33 AM To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Police Brutality in Ohio Todd, Keith, Mike et al List; Kudos still to Keith for even-handed reasonableness. Thankyou Allen. :-) I'm also not a journalist, just a reader; still, i read the whole thing the links (retired, i have lots of time -- like to get the whole flavor of what i taste). It was apparent that this was an angry outraged piece -- i was sure by the end that the frail lady was probably not pure as the driven snow in the encounter, despite her protestations. But still -- she ( her fledgling organization) has citizen's rights, some of them were obviously violated, by organized power holding all the cards stacking the deck. At the very least, she ( the WCW she's part of) are due an apology some redress -- i wonder if they'll get it? I doubt it, but along with the event itself maybe it'll help open a few more eyes to some of the things that are going on in the land that terrorists allegedly hate because of its freedoms. (That's not a sneer, it's a lament.) This incident reminded me of one similar, albeit on a much larger scale, also in Ohio back in the day -- but 4 student activists DIED at Kent State! Thankyou for that too, a point I missed. So much for my geography, I didn't realise Kent State is in Ohio. :-( I was looking at the Kent State news photos the other day: http://may4.org/themes/may4/Filo1sm.jpg And at this too: http://journeytoforever.org/bflpics/flowerpower.jpg Not to bring it down, but it was the basic inspiration for the sunflowers-in-the-tank image on our biofuels pages, much ripped-off and emulated since then - it's not easy to illustrate biofuels! http://journeytoforever.org/media/s/sunflowers.jpg About the silliest copy I saw was this one, by Ed Beggs at PlantDrive/Neoteric, before they replaced it with an Elsbett lookalike logo: http://journeytoforever.org/bflpics/beggspic.jpg LOL! Didn't think I'd ever get a laugh out of Kent State. Supposedly, re-training for Nat'l Guard police came of that -- but a generation has grown old the new one may not have gotten that benefit. Time to revisit? If not for that one then surely for other pressing reasons. If you say Kent State in the US now, does it still carry that connotation? That's all it means to me and I'm sure a great many
[Biofuel] Algae, Biodiesel and CO2 Scrubbing
GreenShift Licenses Bioreactor Technology for CO2 Scrubbing, Biofuel Production 12 December 2005 http://www.greencarcongress.com/2005/12/greenshift_lice.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Don't need a Weatherman to know which way the wind blows
They blew up a bunch of government buildings to try to stop the vietnam war. I think the only people they ever killed was two of their own when their lab in Philly blew up, but i'm not sure about that. Funny thing is that only one or two of them ever went to jail because they broke into the FBI offices and stole all of the records they had on them. http://www.upstatefilms.org/weather/ is the documentary that recently came out. Z On 5/25/06, Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've heard that but I can't remember them. Mike Redler wrote: Did somebody say Weathermen? The sixties and seventies were a fascinating time in our history whether you agreed with a particular ideology or not. If I had some cash to spend, I'd go to Pacifica radio and build an audio collection of interviews and speeches. Bobby Seale Huey Newton Abbie Hoffman Martin Luther King Jr. Malcolm X Mumia Leonard Peltier George Jackson etc., etc. Some of those who struggled then are still speaking out today - albeit from a prison cell. Mike Zeke Yewdall wrote: Hey! I wasn't born till '78, but I know what Kent state was, the weathermen, the moon shot, vietnam war, and alot of the stuff you are talking about. I didn't experience them, but isn't that why they teach history in school? Or do they? I never attended public school, so I may have inadvertently learned something I wasn't supposed to. Zeke [snip] ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Late Night in US
Mike Redler wrote: This person clearly has a case of Encephalomalacia with extreme back strain and trauma to the lower GI tract (further explanation upon request). This must be closely related to recto-cranial inversion syndrome. -Johnathan ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Late Night in US
yes, to put it fairly bluntly, hes got the gourd in the gutter. - Original Message - From: Johnathan Corgan [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2006 9:44 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Late Night in US Mike Redler wrote: This person clearly has a case of Encephalomalacia with extreme back strain and trauma to the lower GI tract (further explanation upon request). This must be closely related to recto-cranial inversion syndrome. -Johnathan ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.7.1/347 - Release Date: 5/24/2006 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Energy Problem Solved! Here Comes the Turboencabulator!
So what happens when the left rear geodex valve explodes, scattering nanoparticles into the warp engines?? - Original Message - From: Mike Redler [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2006 2:02 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Energy Problem Solved! Here Comes the Turboencabulator! The machine that makes all other machines obsolete! http://www.doc.ic.ac.uk/%7Eids/dotdot/misc/jokes/turboencabulator.txt Turboencabulator JH Quick [From The Institute of Electrical Engineers, Students Quarterly Journal 25] For a number of years now, work has has been proceeding in order to bring prefection to the crudely conceived idea of a machine that would work to not only supply inverse reactive current, for use in unilateral phase detectors, but would also be capable of automatically synchronising cardinal grammeters. Such a machine is the 'Turboencabulator'. Basically, the only new principle involved is that instead of the power being generated by the relaxive motion of conductors and fluxes, it is produced by the modial interactions of magneto- reluctance and capacitive directance. The original machine had a base-plate of prefabulated amulite, surrounded by a malleable logarithmic casing in such a way that the two spurving bearings were in direct line with the pentametric fan, the latter consisted simply of six hydrocoptic marzelvanes, so fitted to the ambifacient lunar vaneshaft that side fumbling was effectively prevented. The main winding was of the normal lotus- o-delta type placed in panendermic semiboloid solts in the stator, every seventh conductor being connected by a non-reversible termic pipe to the differential girdlespring on the 'up' end of the grammeter. Forty-one manestically placed grouting brushes were arrranged to feed into the rotor slip stream a mixture of high S-value phenyhydrobenzamine and 5 percent reminative tetraiodohexamine. Both these liquids have specific pericosities given by p=2.4 Cn where n is the diathecial evolute of retrograde temperature phase disposition and C is the Chomondeley's annual grillage coefficient. Initially, n was measured with the aid of a metapolar pilfrometer, but up to the present date nothing has been found to equal the transcetental hopper dadoscope. Electrical engineers will appreciate the difficulty of nubbing together a regurgitative purwell and a superaminative wennel-sprocket. Indeed, this proved to be a stumbling block to further development until, in 1943, it was found that the use of anhydrous nagling pins enabled a kyptonastic boiling shim to be tankered. The early attempts to construct a sufficiently robust spiral decommutator failed largely because of lack of appreciation of the large quasi-pietic stresses in the gremlin studs; the latter were specially designed to hold the roffit bars to the spamshaft. When, however, it was discovered that wending could be prevented by the simple addition of teeth to socket, almost perfect running was secured. The operating point is maintained as near as possible to the HF rem peak by constantly fromaging the bituminous spandrels. This is a distinct advance on the standard nivelsheave in that no drammock oil is required after the phase detractors have remissed. Undoubtedly, the turboencabulator has now reached a very high level of technical development. It has been successfully used for operating nofer trunnions. In addition, whenever a barescent skor motion is required, it may be employed in conjunction with a drawn reciprocating dingle arm to reduce sinusoidal depleneration. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
