[Biofuel] Sinkholes and oil production
Allow me to comment(underscoring what Bob said) the reason water and CO2 is pumped into producing formations is to extract MORE oil from from the formation, not replace it, enhanced recovery they call it. Jeff, I suspect the Texan was telling you a tall tale and later joked with his buddies what he told to nosy person. I don't mean any disrespect, but hell, they don't pass an opportunity's to pull one on their buddies, the rest of the world doesn't stand a chance ;) There have been sinkholes attributed to oil production. Generally the cause is wash out of an area closer to the surface than the collapse of an oil formation several thousand feet down. Anyway removing CO2 from the atmosphere and pumping into a producing formation will not sequester it. As Bob mention porosity is a key feature of producing formations. Sooner or later the CO2 will migrate to a well bore and re-enter the atmosphere when the oil it associated with it is processed. As Terry mentions locking the Co2 in played out capped formations can't be totally safe. Natural Gas stored in old salt mines, years old practice, near Hutchison, KS did find a way out and cause some fires. Doug, N0LKK Kansas USA inc. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] big 3 auto co's pledge to double flex fuel vehicles
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Re: [Biofuel] Sinkholes and oil production
I can understand using CO2 to enhance production. I would not put it pass people who worked at the Chevron CO2 recovery plant to pull a fast one me. However, that being said, I can still picture unstable ground conditions in Texas and that being done as a band aid on a long term problem. It would be in the same vein as the Valdez in Alaska, when it ran into Prince Williams Sound and dump a lot of crude in the water. Exxon had put forth a plan that said they could contain the oil if something like that happen. We all saw the plan was full of holes. When some of the people got tire of watching the people that were suppose to be containing the spill do nothing and pointed out things that they could be doing, the Exxon lawyers construed that as people from the state taking charge of cleaning up the spill and said that Exxon shouldn't be responsible for the clean up because they were following the directions of the state. To this day, if an oil spill happens, people have direct orders just to observe and keep their mouth shut so that the lawyers can't put the blame on the state. The oil companies do more then pull fast ones and tell tall tales. They are very sleazy. I can still see Texas turning into a sink hole. I can just imagine what would be said about Texas, if it puckers and forms a sinkhole next to its brown spots. Also, this does bring out another point. When the Alaska pipeline was built during the 70's, oil fields in the state were developed. At the same time, Ander was left alone because the amount of oil it held and how hard it was to extract if from the ground was not considered cost effective. I just wonder how high the gas price will have to be to make it cost effective. Also, I would like to point out if it takes billions of dollars to get the oil, and Exxon Mobile wants to make 6% profit, how high will the gas that comes from there be? I also would like to commend you and Bob for stating your thoughts and reasoning in a very civil manner. Jeff - Original Message - From: Doug Younker [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, July 04, 2006 11:49 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Sinkholes and oil production Allow me to comment(underscoring what Bob said) the reason water and CO2 is pumped into producing formations is to extract MORE oil from from the formation, not replace it, enhanced recovery they call it. Jeff, I suspect the Texan was telling you a tall tale and later joked with his buddies what he told to nosy person. I don't mean any disrespect, but hell, they don't pass an opportunity's to pull one on their buddies, the rest of the world doesn't stand a chance ;) There have been sinkholes attributed to oil production. Generally the cause is wash out of an area closer to the surface than the collapse of an oil formation several thousand feet down. Anyway removing CO2 from the atmosphere and pumping into a producing formation will not sequester it. As Bob mention porosity is a key feature of producing formations. Sooner or later the CO2 will migrate to a well bore and re-enter the atmosphere when the oil it associated with it is processed. As Terry mentions locking the Co2 in played out capped formations can't be totally safe. Natural Gas stored in old salt mines, years old practice, near Hutchison, KS did find a way out and cause some fires. Doug, N0LKK Kansas USA inc. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Sinkholes and oil production
Look up karst for more info on sinkhole topography... Doug Younker wrote: Allow me to comment(underscoring what Bob said) the reason water and CO2 is pumped into producing formations is to extract MORE oil from from the formation, not replace it, enhanced recovery they call it. Jeff, I suspect the Texan was telling you a tall tale and later joked with his buddies what he told to nosy person. I don't mean any disrespect, but hell, they don't pass an opportunity's to pull one on their buddies, the rest of the world doesn't stand a chance ;) There have been sinkholes attributed to oil production. Generally the cause is wash out of an area closer to the surface than the collapse of an oil formation several thousand feet down. Anyway removing CO2 from the atmosphere and pumping into a producing formation will not sequester it. As Bob mention porosity is a key feature of producing formations. Sooner or later the CO2 will migrate to a well bore and re-enter the atmosphere when the oil it associated with it is processed. As Terry mentions locking the Co2 in played out capped formations can't be totally safe. Natural Gas stored in old salt mines, years old practice, near Hutchison, KS did find a way out and cause some fires. Doug, N0LKK Kansas USA inc. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] was..smart car coming to US in 2008
Did anyone respond to the questions below? ThanksTony Marzolino [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello All,All this size discussion is nice, but what about price??? Does anyone know? And will the diesel be offered in the US market? Thanks,Tony MarzolinoJohn Markham [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Don't write off the Smart car on size or refinement.I have driven one and in the city and its great for parking, the frontseats have more room than a Neon and it has all the bells and whistles ofit's bigger brothers. Having a Mercedes motor cycle engine means that it'sgas mileage put's you back under a dollar a gallon!John Markham EMail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]-Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED][mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of AltEnergyNetworkSent: 02 July 2006 08:15To: biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject: [Biofuel] was..smart car coming to US in 2008That's great Haken, so if they already have a four seater,it is not to much of a stretch to do a minivan version as well and stillbe considered a smart car?Also, I've seen the two seater and while really cool, there is no wayyou are going to fit 2 - 250 pound people side by side, they would look likecircus clowns stuffed into the seats.People want utility in their vehicles and still be as efficient as possible.tallexSmart Car Coming to US in 2008 Launch by DaimlerChrysler http://www.alternate-energy.net/N/news.php?detail=n1151818384.news ---Original Message--- From: Hakan Falk Subject: Re: [Biofuel] smart car coming to US in 2008 Sent: 02 Jul '06 06:56 They do have a 4 seater model already, it is selling in Europe for quite a while. Hakan At 08:06 02/07/2006, you wrote: Great idea but I think that they better make a four seater for the US market. Smart cars have been out for about a year in Canada and while really cool, I have a hard time imagining 2 average Americans in one ;) LOL, regards tallex Smart Car Coming to US in 2008 Launch by DaimlerChrysler http://www.alternate-energy.net/N/news.php?detail=n1151818384.news Get your daily alternative energy news Alternate Energy Resource Network 1000+ news sources-resources updated daily http://www.alternate-energy.net Next Generation Grid http://groups.yahoo.com/group/next_generation_grid/ Tomorrow-energy http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tomorrow-energy/ Alternative Energy Politics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Alternative_Energy_Politics/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Sneak preview the MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "us.rd.yahoo.com" claiming to be all-new Yahoo.com. It's not radically different. Just radically better. Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] was..smart car coming to US in 2008
Title: Re: [Biofuel] was..smart car coming to US in 2008 For no good reason I have a link for you: http://www.tc.gc.ca/atvp Some specs there. Jesse From: Tony Marzolino [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 03:57:31 -0700 (PDT) To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] was..smart car coming to US in 2008 Did anyone respond to the questions below? Thanks Tony Marzolino [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello All, All this size discussion is nice, but what about price??? Does anyone know? And will the diesel be offered in the US market? Thanks, Tony Marzolino John Markham [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Don't write off the Smart car on size or refinement. I have driven one and in the city and its great for parking, the front seats have more room than a Neon and it has all the bells and whistles of it's bigger brothers. Having a Mercedes motor cycle engine means that it's gas mileage put's you back under a dollar a gallon! John Markham EMail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of AltEnergyNetwork Sent: 02 July 2006 08:15 To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] was..smart car coming to US in 2008 That's great Haken, so if they already have a four seater, it is not to much of a stretch to do a minivan version as well and still be considered a smart car? Also, I've seen the two seater and while really cool, there is no way you are going to fit 2 - 250 pound people side by side, they would look like circus clowns stuffed into the seats. People want utility in their vehicles and still be as efficient as possible. tallex Smart Car Coming to US in 2008 Launch by DaimlerChrysler http://www.alternate-energy.net/N/news.php?detail=n1151818384.news ---Original Message--- From: Hakan Falk Subject: Re: [Biofuel] smart car coming to US in 2008 Sent: 02 Jul '06 06:56 They do have a 4 seater model already, it is selling in Europe for quite a while. Hakan At 08:06 02/07/2006, you wrote: Great idea but I think that they better make a four seater for the US market. Smart cars have been out for about a year in Canada and while really cool, I have a hard time imagining 2 average Americans in one ;) LOL, regards tallex Smart Car Coming to US in 2008 Launch by DaimlerChrysler http://www.alternate-energy.net/N/news.php?detail=n1151818384.news Get your daily alternative energy news Alternate Energy Resource Network 1000+ news sources-resources updated daily http://www.alternate-energy.net Next Generation Grid http://groups.yahoo.com/group/next_generation_grid/ Tomorrow-energy http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tomorrow-energy/ Alternative Energy Politics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Alternative_Energy_Politics/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Sneak preview the MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from us.rd.yahoo.com claiming to be all-new Yahoo.com http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=40762/*http://www.yahoo.com/preview . It's not radically different. Just radically better. Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. http://pa.yahoo.com/*http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=36035/*http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
[Biofuel] Bamboo bicycle
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