date:20060801

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 00:30:17 EDT

LOTS OF LINKS TO RELATED MATERIALS HERE
http://www.ucsusa.org/scientific_integrity/interference/fda-scientist 
-survey.html
---
FDA Scientists Pressured to Exclude, Alter Findings; Scientists Fear 
Retaliation for Voicing Safety Concerns
Public Health and Safety Will Suffer without Leadership from FDA and Congress
UCS, July 20, 2006
http://www.ucsusa.org/news/press_release/fda-scientists-pressured.html

WASHINGTON, DC - The Union of Concerned Scientists (UCS) today 
released survey results that demonstrate pervasive and dangerous 
political influence of science at the Food and Drug Administration 
(FDA). Of the 997 FDA scientists who responded to the survey, nearly 
one-fifth (18.4 percent) said that they have been asked, for 
non-scientific reasons, to inappropriately exclude or alter 
technical information or their conclusions in a FDA scientific 
document. This is the third survey UCS has conducted to examine 
inappropriate interference with science at federal agencies.   

Science must be the driving force for decisions made at the FDA. 
These disturbing survey results make it clear that inappropriate 
interference is putting people in harm's way, said Dr. Francesca 
Grifo, Senior Scientist and Director of UCS's Scientific Integrity 
Program. FDA leaders should act now to improve transparency and 
accountability and renew respect for independent science at the 
agency.

The UCS survey, which was co-sponsored by Public Employees for 
Environmental Responsibility, was sent to 5,918 FDA scientists. 
Forty percent of respondents fear retaliation for voicing safety 
concerns in public. This fear, scientists say, combines with other 
pressures to compromise the agency's ability to protect public 
health and safety. More than a third of the respondents did not feel 
they could express safety concerns even inside the agency.

This is more than just a bureaucratic problem within the agency, 
said Kim Witczak, WoodyMatters.com, who lost her husband due to side 
effects of a dangerous anti-depressant.

It has real human impacts which can be devastating. My husband paid 
the ultimate price for FDA's lack of accountability.

The survey also revealed other compelling points of concern:

61 percent of the respondents knew of cases where Department of 
Health and Human Services or FDA political appointees have 
inappropriately injected themselves into FDA determinations or 
actions.

Only 47 percent think the FDA routinely provides complete and 
accurate information to the public.
81 percent agreed that the public would be better served if the 
independence and authority of FDA post-market safety systems were 
strengthened.
70 percent disagree with the statement that FDA has sufficient 
resources to perform effectively its mission of protecting public 
healthÄ¶and helping to get accurate science-based information they 
need to use medicines and foods to improve their health.
The FDA regulates products vital to the well-being of all 
Americans, including food, drugs, vaccines, and medical devices, 
said Dr. Grifo. To fully protect public health and safety, the FDA 
must have the best available independent scientific data.

To address the concerns raised by FDA scientists, UCS recommends:

Äì  Accountability: FDA leadership must face consequences if they 
side with commercial or political interests and not with the 
American people.

Äì  Transparency: Scientific research and reviews should be open so 
any undue manipulation is immediately apparent.

Äì  Protection: Safeguards must be put in place for all government 
scientists who speak out.

What we see at the FDA, while dramatic and frightening, is all too 
common at many federal agencies, said Dr. Grifo. All federal 
scientists need protections so they can speak out when their science 
is manipulated, and all federal agencies need fully functioning 
independent advisory committees. FDA leadership must understand and 
support independent science and it is up to Congress to hold them 
accountable.
---
Scientists at FDA tell of outside pressures
By Justin Blum
Bloomberg News, Fri, Jul. 21
http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/living/health/15086911.htm

Scientists at the Food and Drug Administration say they feel 
pressure to alter their work for nonscientific reasons and to 
provide misleading information, according to a survey released 
yesterday.

The FDA employees raised the concerns in an anonymous written survey 
conducted by the Union of Concerned Scientists. The Cambridge, 
Mass.-based nonprofit group seeks to draw attention to what it sees 
as misuse of science and technology.

There are big problems at the FDA, particularly regarding 
independent science, Francesca Grifo, director of the group's 
Scientific Integrity Program, said in a telephone interview.

The survey results echo public complaints from FDA scientists who 
say their findings were dismissed on drugs including Merck  Co.'s 
Vioxx

[Biofuel] The Power of Community: How Cuba Survived Peak Oil

Contact: Megan Quinn

937-767-2161

mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED]

New Documentary Film on Cuba

The Power of Community: How Cuba Survived Peak Oil

YELLOW SPRINGS, Ohio - May 2006 . . . The just released film, The 
Power of Community: How Cuba Survived Peak Oil, documents Cuba's 
emergency transition to local organic agriculture, renewable energy, 
and large-scale mass transit. The transition occurred following the 
Soviet collapse in 1990, when their massive subsidies of imported oil 
and food to Cuba were halted.

In this documentary, ordinary Cubans talk about the immediate 
hardships they faced. Their GDP dropped by more than one third, 
transportation nearly stopped and food became scarce - the average 
Cuban lost 20 pounds during the first years of this economic crisis.

The film visits urban gardens and organic farms, explains the 
relationship between food and fossil fuels, and shows how a society 
can change from an industrialized, global focus to a local, 
community-based one. It is a rare view into this island culture, 
using firsthand reporting that focuses on what Cubans learned about 
adapting to living with less.

Cuba's experience provides a living model for how the rest of the 
world can respond to the coming world oil production peak and 
irreversible decline some oil experts say will occur this decade. 
Everyone who is concerned about Peak Oil needs to see this film, 
said Richard Heinberg, author of The Party's Over and Powerdown. It 
is a story not just of individual achievement, but of the collective 
mobilization of an entire society to meet an enormous challenge.

The documentary is drawing rave reviews with such comments as,

The most uplifting portrayal of a success story coming out of 
chaos, and A must see for survival in the next energy age beyond 
oil. Viewer Joshua Lockyer, of Atlanta said, If we want to know how 
we as a nation are going to survive the peak oil crisis we need to 
have models...This film begins to show us how.

The Community Solution, Executive Producer of the film, is a 
non-profit organization in Yellow Springs, Ohio dedicated to seeking 
viable, low-energy options to the coming peak oil crisis. It hosts 
the annual U.S. Conference on Peak Oil and Community Solutions, and 
offers other programs to increase public awareness about peak oil.

Producers Faith Morgan, Pat Murphy, and Megan Quinn traveled to Cuba 
in 2004 to capture Cubans' story on film. Greg Greene, videographer 
and writer/director of the documentary The End of Suburbia, and 
photographer John Morgan, traveled with them as additional crew in 
Cuba. Eric Johnson was editor and Tom Blessing IV, associate producer.

The Power of Community: How Cuba Survived Peak Oil runs for 53 
minutes and is available on DVD or VHS for $20 plus shipping and 
handling. To order, visit, visit 
http://www.communitysolution.org/cuba or call 937-767-2161.


___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] Future car: What will you be driving?

Algae does seem to be a no brainer. So why isn't more impetus for it? We 
might even be
able to harvest those algae blooms and make biodiesel from it.
Peace, D. Mindock

- Original Message - 
From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Monday, July 31, 2006 12:39 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Future car: What will you be driving?

 And/or 100,000 gallons of oil per acre when growing algae.

 Todd Swearingen
 \

 Kirk McLoren wrote:

 1000 gallons methanol per acre with hemp if using pyrolytic distillation.

 Kirk

 */Jason Katie [EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote:

 WHAT!?!?!?!?!?

  Could we replace all our oil with bio-fuels? Well... maybe. But
 it would
  be an extraordinary effort. A fifty-fifty mix of bio-diesel and
 ethanol
  would require putting three times the productive farm land in
 Iowa toward
  nothing but the production of fuel just to match what we
 currently import.
  Make it five Iowas to solve the whole problem. Trouble is, that
 much farm
  land is not readily available. There's also the little nit of
 figuring
  out what we eat while every scrap of land is busy working for
 our gas
  tanks.
  Naturally, if we combine bio-fuels with the two hoped for goals
 in regular
  cars -- more efficient engines and lighter weight vehicles -- we
 can
  shrink the requisite greenspace. Brazil, which generates
 ethanol from
  sugar cane, has been systematically raising the amount of
 ethanol in their
  fuel supply, and Brazilian manufacturers have been adding small
 flex-fuel
  vehicles that can run on anything from E0 to E100. Zap is
 bringing at
  least one of these vehicles to US consumers next year.

 im all for the efficiency argument, but COME ON PEOPLE! doesnt anyone
 believe in using something OTHER than corn and soy? they are NOT
 the best
 feedstocks anyone could use for fuel! move to a better supply, not
 a higher
 yield. this is ridiculous! if the supply was a high density stock
 the land
 requirement would be porportionally lower.

 for diesel replacement assume we used castor in the USA:
 -oil yield would be roughly 151 gallons per acre compared to 48
 gallons of soy oil.
 -THEREFORE one acre of castor would eliminate the need for more
 than 3 acres of soy.
 which means those other 2 acres of new empty field could be
 used for food or- OH NO! TREES!

 for gasoline replacement assume we use sugarbeets (not very good,
 but more
 climate friendly) in the USA:
 -ethanol yield would be 412 gallons per acre compared to 214 gallons
 of corn ethanol
 -THEREFORE one acre of sugarbeets would eliminate the need for
 1.9 acres of corn.
 you see where im going with this?

 by selective breeding of some of the more tropical varieties of
 high density
 stock, we can slowly push the growing regions further north,
 increasing the
 supply density, and lowering the acreage needed to supply the same
 amount.
 WE DONT NEED CORN OR SOY FOR FUEL! i might be raving like an
 idiot, but
 noone can seem to understand that corn and soy are not the only
 crops in the
 world.

 Jason
 ICQ#: 154998177
 MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 -- 

___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] Have You Hugged Your Hummer Today?

Hi,

  I think I recall that the VW Lugo uses a start/stop diesel engine and get 
70mpg. It stops the engine at each
stoppage of the vehicle. Can anyone verify this?

Thanks, D. Mindock

- Original Message - 
From: Mike Redler
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Monday, July 31, 2006 10:41 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Have You Hugged Your Hummer Today?


Simon mentioned shutting down the engine at stop lights because in Europe, 
it's commonplace. I travel to Switzerland every year and over there (where 
rules mean everything - whether written or implied) everybody does it. The 
benefit of a hybrid does not make itself known on the highway where the 
power required  by the vehicle and delivered by the engine are pretty much 
matched. It's the inconsistent demands for power in traffic and side roads 
which cause the engine to continue burning fuel when there is no demand and 
where an electric motor is best suited.

Everyone here knows that the thing making hybrids so promising is the 
combination of technologies which compliment each other and make the best 
use of (fuel/energy) resources. (IMO) car companies are just beginning to 
understand the potential of this simple concept. My proof is the production 
of relatively low mileage hybrids which (apparently) don't seem to have 
effective regenerative braking - enhancing the performance of the vehicle by 
allowing supply and demand to literally become both positive and negative 
numbers.

Another benefit being missed is the option to supply electrical energy from 
a source of your choosing (i.e. your home electrical outlet). There will be 
a day (IMO) when home owners expand on the automotive hybrid philosophy by 
applying it to their homes to which cars will have the ability to become an 
integral part. The rebels out there (and on this list) are already laying 
the foundation with solar, wind, modified hybrid cars, and improvised 
off-grid systems.

- Redler

robert and benita rabello wrote:
Simon Fowler MADUR-SALES wrote:


I beg to differ. There is nothing to stop you switching the engine off when 
standing still. We have signs requesting you to do so at some level 
crossings as well.




You're right, and I concede that point.  However, I've never seen
anyone do this at a stop light.  The vast majority of people remain
content to let their engines idle.  In addition, the diesel and
non-hybrid gas engines must burn fuel (and hence, pollute the air) when
moving.  At city speeds, my hybrid can run on its batteries alone.


robert luis rabello
The Edge of Justice
Adventure for Your Mind
http://www.newadventure.ca

Ranger Supercharger Project Page
http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/

[snip]





___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] RFID Controversy

2006-08-01 Thread Doug Younker

I'm not ready to subscribe to the RFID paranoia just yet, mostly because 
of the content D. Mindock provided.  I have to feel their extreme 
capabilities are being over stated  In regards to beef, it will be the 
Rancher who will be absorbing the cost of RFID implantation.  As I 
understand it the tracking begins with the birthplace of the animal. 
Rancher or Feed lot will absorb all the costs, because the prices they 
get are set by the commodity markets
Doug, N0LKK
Kansas USA inc.
When all else fails- Amateur Radio 
http://www.arrl.org/FandES/field/pscm/sec1-ch1.html ARES

Kirk McLoren wrote:
 Just how far this can be depends on the type of the reader, but in the 
 extreme case some readers have a maximum power output of 4 W 
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watt, enabling signals to be received 
 from tens of kilometres away.^[/citation needed/ 
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citing_sources]
 ^--
 ^This is misleading. This reader is basically a repeater and if 
 instead was connected to the telco the data could be received anywhere 
 within telephone range - ie planet wide. It makes the tag look far more 
 effective than it is. As for printed cicuits passivation (protection 
 from environment) is still an issue and the designers biggest headache, 
 power, is as unsolved as ever. The largest new use I am aware of is 
 tracking carcasses. Japan has insisted on it because of mad cow fears. 
 The chip has to withstand planting in the animal and so far reports from 
 feedlot operators are that it is often unreliable and adds at least $10 
 to each animal for the tag. It is unlikely they will be recovered and 
 returned from Japan as well. Then there is the cost of the readers and 
 the book keeping. Feedlot operators have to pass the cost along of course.
  
 ^Kirk

___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] Have You Hugged Your Hummer Today?

Even better, make it a
factory built plug-in diesel hybrid. Peace, D. Mindock

- Original Message -
From:
Will
Kelleher
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org

Sent: Sunday, July 30, 2006 6:50 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Have You Hugged
Your Hummer Today?
Why not combine the best of both and create a diesel
hybrid? Better city AND highway mileage!
On 7/30/06, robert and
benita rabello
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Andrew Lowe wrote:

I can remember seeing an episode of the English show Top Gear,www.bbc.co.uk/topgear where the consumption of hybrids was mentioned. One of the
presenters said that he drove a hybrid from point A to point B and got about40-45 miles/gallon. He subsequently drove a similar sized diesel over the sameroute and got a consumption of about 50-55 miles/gallon.
n.b. Figures are frommemory and could be a bit rubbery but the jist of the comment was that currenttechnology diesels can, and do, get better consumption than hybrids.
A diesel WILL outperform a gasoline hybrid in
overall fuel economy. But when we drive around town, there are times
when we're using NO fuel at all, which means we're not putting anything into
the air either. We burn NO fuel while sitting at a light. A
diesel can't do that. A lot of this
discussion is just picking nits, but I'd really like to see MORE hybrids and
MORE diesels on the road. It shouldn't be an "either / or"
thing.robert luis rabello"The Edge of Justice"Adventure for Your Mindhttp://www.newadventure.ca

Ranger Supercharger Project Page
http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/

___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] RFID Controversy

This is hardly paranoia. It is something that is increasing in capability 
and has to be
watched. Cheap readers exist that have a 60 foot range. More expensive ones 
have
a 450 ft range with an omnidirectional antenna, with optional directional 
antenna that can
 increase the range to quite a bit farther out. Let's face it. Spying is a 
growth industry here
in the U$A, and probably elsewhere. Fear, divisiveness, and distrust --  
government inspired, create the
environment for spying. The cattle monitoring application seems to be a 
legit one. Toll taking
seems to be another one. Warehouse management for tracking and stopping 
pilferage is
still another. But like all technologies, RFID can be misused. It is up to 
us to make sure
our Congress reps know that we want our privacy and identities protected. 
RFID has to be
made immune to hacking and eavesdropping, among other issues.
 Peace, D. Mindock


- Original Message - 
From: Doug Younker [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2006 3:55 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] RFID Controversy


 I'm not ready to subscribe to the RFID paranoia just yet, mostly because
 of the content D. Mindock provided.  I have to feel their extreme
 capabilities are being over stated  In regards to beef, it will be the
 Rancher who will be absorbing the cost of RFID implantation.  As I
 understand it the tracking begins with the birthplace of the animal.
 Rancher or Feed lot will absorb all the costs, because the prices they
 get are set by the commodity markets
 Doug, N0LKK
 Kansas USA inc.
 When all else fails- Amateur Radio
 http://www.arrl.org/FandES/field/pscm/sec1-ch1.html ARES

 Kirk McLoren wrote:
 Just how far this can be depends on the type of the reader, but in the
 extreme case some readers have a maximum power output of 4 W
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watt, enabling signals to be received
 from tens of kilometres away.^[/citation needed/
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citing_sources]
 ^--
 ^This is misleading. This reader is basically a repeater and if
 instead was connected to the telco the data could be received anywhere
 within telephone range - ie planet wide. It makes the tag look far more
 effective than it is. As for printed cicuits passivation (protection
 from environment) is still an issue and the designers biggest headache,
 power, is as unsolved as ever. The largest new use I am aware of is
 tracking carcasses. Japan has insisted on it because of mad cow fears.
 The chip has to withstand planting in the animal and so far reports from
 feedlot operators are that it is often unreliable and adds at least $10
 to each animal for the tag. It is unlikely they will be recovered and
 returned from Japan as well. Then there is the cost of the readers and
 the book keeping. Feedlot operators have to pass the cost along of 
 course.

 ^Kirk

 ___
 Biofuel mailing list
 Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
 http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

 Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
 http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

 Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 
 messages):
 http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/


 -- 
 No virus found in this incoming message.
 Checked by AVG Free Edition.
 Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.5/403 - Release Date: 7/28/2006
 

___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] Have You Hugged Your Hummer Today?

2006-08-01 Thread bob allen

both honda and toyota hybrids (gasoline) do.
D. Mindock wrote:
 Hi,
 
   I think I recall that the VW Lugo uses a start/stop diesel engine and get 
 70mpg. It stops the engine at each
 stoppage of the vehicle. Can anyone verify this?
 
 Thanks, D. Mindock
 
 - Original Message - 
 From: Mike Redler
 To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
 Sent: Monday, July 31, 2006 10:41 AM
 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Have You Hugged Your Hummer Today?
 
 
 Simon mentioned shutting down the engine at stop lights because in Europe, 
 it's commonplace. I travel to Switzerland every year and over there (where 
 rules mean everything - whether written or implied) everybody does it. The 
 benefit of a hybrid does not make itself known on the highway where the 
 power required  by the vehicle and delivered by the engine are pretty much 
 matched. It's the inconsistent demands for power in traffic and side roads 
 which cause the engine to continue burning fuel when there is no demand and 
 where an electric motor is best suited.
 
 Everyone here knows that the thing making hybrids so promising is the 
 combination of technologies which compliment each other and make the best 
 use of (fuel/energy) resources. (IMO) car companies are just beginning to 
 understand the potential of this simple concept. My proof is the production 
 of relatively low mileage hybrids which (apparently) don't seem to have 
 effective regenerative braking - enhancing the performance of the vehicle by 
 allowing supply and demand to literally become both positive and negative 
 numbers.
 
 Another benefit being missed is the option to supply electrical energy from 
 a source of your choosing (i.e. your home electrical outlet). There will be 
 a day (IMO) when home owners expand on the automotive hybrid philosophy by 
 applying it to their homes to which cars will have the ability to become an 
 integral part. The rebels out there (and on this list) are already laying 
 the foundation with solar, wind, modified hybrid cars, and improvised 
 off-grid systems.
 
 - Redler
 
 robert and benita rabello wrote:
 Simon Fowler MADUR-SALES wrote:
 
 
 I beg to differ. There is nothing to stop you switching the engine off when 
 standing still. We have signs requesting you to do so at some level 
 crossings as well.
 
 
 
 
 You're right, and I concede that point.  However, I've never seen
 anyone do this at a stop light.  The vast majority of people remain
 content to let their engines idle.  In addition, the diesel and
 non-hybrid gas engines must burn fuel (and hence, pollute the air) when
 moving.  At city speeds, my hybrid can run on its batteries alone.
 
 
 robert luis rabello
 The Edge of Justice
 Adventure for Your Mind
 http://www.newadventure.ca
 
 Ranger Supercharger Project Page
 http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/
 
 [snip]
 
 
 
 
 
 ___
 Biofuel mailing list
 Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
 http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org
 
 Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
 http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
 
 Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
 http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
 
 
 
 


-- 
--
Bob Allen,http://ozarker.org/bob
--
-
The modern conservative is engaged in one of Man's oldest exercises
in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral
justification for selfishness  JKG
 


___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] Future car: What will you be driving?

2006-08-01 Thread Tom Irwin





Hi Todd and all,

Do you mean acre-foot of seawater? Do you have any idea how much phosphorus would be required for growing this kind of mass even if the algae can fix atmospheric nitrogen? Let me diplomatic and say this seems to be an overestimation.

Tom



From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]To: biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Tue, 01 Aug 2006 02:46:51 -0300Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Future car: What will you be driving?And/or 100,000 gallons of oil per acre when growing algae.Todd Swearingen\Um, where exactly are these acres of algae each producing 100,000 gallons of oil? Anywhere here on Planet Earth in August 2006?:-)KeithKirk McLoren wrote:  1000 gallons methanol per acre with hemp if using pyrolytic distillation.   Kirk   */Jason Katie [EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote:WHAT!?!?!?!?!?Could we replace all our oil with bio-fuels? Well... maybe. But  it would   be an extraordinary effort. A fifty-fifty mix of bio-diesel and  ethanol   would require putting three times the productive farm land in  Iowa toward   nothing but the production of fuel just to match what we  currently import.   Make it five Iowas to solve the whole problem. Trouble is, that  much farm   land is not readily available. There's also the little nit of  figuring   out what we eat while every scrap of land is busy working for  our gas   tanks.   Naturally, if we combine bio-fuels with the two hoped for goals  in regular   cars -- more efficient engines and lighter weight vehicles -- we  can   shrink the requisite greenspace. Brazil, which generates  ethanol from   sugar cane, has been systematically raising the amount of  ethanol in their   fuel supply, and Brazilian manufacturers have been adding small  flex-fuel   vehicles that can run on anything from E0 to E100. Zap is  bringing at   least one of these vehicles to US consumers next year.   im all for the efficiency argument, but COME ON PEOPLE! doesnt anyone  believe in using something OTHER than corn and soy? they are NOT  the best  feedstocks anyone could use for fuel! move to a better supply, not  a higher  yield. this is ridiculous! if the supply was a high density stock  the land  requirement would be porportionally lower.   for diesel replacement assume we used castor in the USA:  -oil yield would be roughly 151 gallons per acre compared to 48  gallons of soy oil.  -THEREFORE one acre of castor would eliminate the need for more  than 3 acres of soy.  which means those other 2 acres of new empty field could be  used for food or- OH NO! TREES!   for gasoline replacement assume we use sugarbeets (not very good,  but more  climate friendly) in the USA:  -ethanol yield would be 412 gallons per acre compared to 214 gallons  of corn ethanol  -THEREFORE one acre of sugarbeets would eliminate the need for  1.9 acres of corn.  you see where im going with this?   by selective breeding of some of the more tropical varieties of  high density  stock, we can slowly push the growing regions further north,  increasing the  supply density, and lowering the acreage needed to supply the same  amount.  WE DONT NEED CORN OR SOY FOR FUEL! i might be raving like an  idiot, but  noone can seem to understand that corn and soy are not the only  crops in the  world.   Jason  ICQ#: 154998177  MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/



___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

[Biofuel] Exxon funding - update

2006-08-01 Thread AltEnergyNetwork



Hi all,

Here is an updated list of Exxon funded orgs. Now, of course I am not against 
fighting malaria, but many of the others are dedicated to planting confusion, 
fighting any proposed strengthening of environmental protection legislation, 
promoting dirty fossil fuel useage and denying that global warming is even a 
problem.

As well, many of these hacks have websites and syndication deals with
major media co's to spread their lies.

regards
tallex


Acton Institute for the Study of Religion and Liberty has received $160,000 
from ExxonMobil since 1998. 
   Africa Fighting Malaria has received $30,000 from ExxonMobil since 1998. 
   American Council for Capital Formation Center for Policy Research has 
received $1,309,523 from 
ExxonMobil since 1998. 
   American Council on Science and Health has received $110,000 from ExxonMobil 
since 1998. 
   American Enterprise Institute for Public Policy Research has received 
$1,625,000 from ExxonMobil since 
1998. 
   American Enterprise Institute-Brookings Joint Center for Regulatory Studies 
has received $105,000 from 
ExxonMobil since 1998. 
   American Friends of the Institute for Economic Affairs has received $50,000 
from ExxonMobil since 1998. 
   American Legislative Exchange Council has received $1,189,700 from 
ExxonMobil since 1998. 
   American Spectator Foundation has received $15,000 from ExxonMobil since 
1998. 
   Arizona State University Office of Cimatology has received $49,500 from 
ExxonMobil since 1998. 
   Aspen Institute has received $61,500 from ExxonMobil since 1998. 
   Atlantic Legal Foundation has received $20,000 from ExxonMobil since 1998. 
   Atlas Economic Research Foundation has received $680,000 from ExxonMobil 
since 1998. 
   Capital Research Center and Greenwatch has received $190,000 from ExxonMobil 
since 1998. 
   Cato Institute has received $90,000 from ExxonMobil since 1998. 
   Center for American and International Law has received $177,450 from 
ExxonMobil since 1998. 
   Center for Strategic and International Studies has received $1,112,500 from 
ExxonMobil since 1998. 
   Center for the Defense of Free Enterprise has received $230,000 from 
ExxonMobil since 1998. 
   Center for the New West has received $5,000 from ExxonMobil since 1998. 
   Center for the Study of Carbon Dioxide and Global Change has received 
$90,000 from ExxonMobil since 
1998. 
   Centre for the New Europe has received $170,000 from ExxonMobil since 1998. 
   Chemical Education Foundation has received $80,000 from ExxonMobil since 
1998. 
   Citizens for A Sound Economy and CSE Educational Foundation has received 
$380,250 from ExxonMobil 
since 1998. 
   Committee for a Constructive Tomorrow has received $472,000 from ExxonMobil 
since 1998. 
   Communications Institute has received $125,000 from ExxonMobil since 1998. 
   Competitive Enterprise Institute has received $2,005,000 from ExxonMobil 
since 1998. 
   Congress of Racial Equality has received $250,000 from ExxonMobil since 
1998. 
   Consumer Alert has received $70,000 from ExxonMobil since 1998. 
   Federalist Society for Law and Public Policy Studies has received $75,000 
from ExxonMobil since 1998. 
   Foundation for Research on Economics and the Environment has received 
$210,000 from ExxonMobil 
since 1998. 
   Fraser Institute has received $120,000 from ExxonMobil since 1998. 
   Free Enterprise Action Institute has received $50,000 from ExxonMobil since 
1998. 
   Free Enterprise Education Institute has received $80,000 from ExxonMobil 
since 1998. 
   Frontiers of Freedom Institute and Foundation has received $857,000 from 
ExxonMobil since 1998. 
   George C. Marshall Institute has received $630,000 from ExxonMobil since 
1998. 
   George Mason University, Law and Economics Center has received $185,000 from 
ExxonMobil since 1998. 
   Harvard Center for Risk Analysis has received $30,000 from ExxonMobil since 
1998. 
   Heartland Institute has received $561,500 from ExxonMobil since 1998. 
   Heritage Foundation has received $555,000 from ExxonMobil since 1998. 
   Hoover Institution on War, Revolution and Peace, Stanford University has 
received $295,000 from 
ExxonMobil since 1998. 
   Hudson Institute has received $25,000 from ExxonMobil since 1998. 
   Independent Institute has received $70,000 from ExxonMobil since 1998. 
   Institute for Energy Research has received $147,000 from ExxonMobil since 
1998. 
   Institute for Regulatory Science, 9200 Rumsey Road, Suite 205 Columbia, MD 
21045 USA 
   Institute for Senior Studies has received $30,000 from ExxonMobil since 
1998. 
   Institute for the Study of Earth and Man has received $76,500 from 
ExxonMobil since 1998. 
   International affiliate of the American Council for Capital Formation. 
   International Policy Network - North America has received $295,000 from 
ExxonMobil since 1998. 
   International Republican Institute has received $105,000 from ExxonMobil 
since 1998. 
   James Madison Institute has received

[Biofuel] ad: what does your car say about you?

2006-08-01 Thread doug swanson

If the right people would watch this, and take the clue!

http://www.greenpeace.org.uk/gasguzzler/index.html

doug swanson

-- 
Contentment comes not from having more, but from wanting less.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

This email is constructed entirely with OpenSource Software.
No Microsoft databits have been incorporated herein.
All existing databits have been constructed from recycled databits. 


___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

[Biofuel] safe temperature

2006-08-01 Thread Rafal Szczesniak

What is max temperature you would consider safe for the process ?

I know methanol boils at 64.7 degC, but it starts evaporating before
reaching this point. Does that mean the temperature higher than
55 degC kept for, say half a minute, causes that a big part of methanol
goes away ?


-- 
cheers,

 Rafal Szczesniak  **mir[at]diament.iit.pwr.wroc.pl
 Samba Team member mi***[at]samba.org
+-+
 *BSD, GNU/Linux and Samba  http://www.samba.org
+-+


___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

[Biofuel] The US and Foreign Aid Assistance

As much as half of Official Development Assistance aid may be 
considered phantom aid

http://www.globalissues.org/TradeRelated/Debt/USAid.asp
The US and Foreign Aid Assistance - Global Issues
by Anup Shah
This Page Last Updated Sunday, July 09, 2006

Summary
Official foreign aid effectiveness is increasingly coming under 
scrutiny. It has long been criticized that much of foreign aid 
involves clever accounting, money that does not actually reach the 
poor, and less than optimal use of resource, such as expensive 
consultancy from donor countries when locals could do it better, for 
much less. Furthermore, aid is often tied to restrictive conditions 
and the interests of the donor, which do not necessarily reflect the 
agreed priorities of combating global poverty and achieving 
sustainable development. The international development agency, Action 
Aid, calculates that around a half of all foreign aid is such 
phantom aid. The foreign aid section on this site has been updated 
with a pie chart breaking down this foreign aid diversion, plus 
additional details.

(16,600-words)

___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

[Biofuel] Crisis in Lebanon, 2006

http://www.globalissues.org/Geopolitics/MiddleEast/Palestine/lebanonco 
nflict.asp

Palestine and Israel
Crisis in Lebanon, 2006
by Anup Shah
* This Page Created Sunday, July 30, 2006

The rise in violence in mid-2006 that has seen the destruction of 
much of Beirut and other parts of Lebanon shows similarities to other 
conflicts in the region in the past.

As with past conflicts, there are concerns with media reporting, the 
stance of the US and its allies such as the UK, the heavy-handed 
Israeli attacks and the continued attacks of extremist organizations 
such as Hezbollah, all together making it difficult to see a 
meaningful and peaceful solution arising.


* Root cause of soldier kidnapping is shallow: Media, Blair and Bush 
should look further back
* Violence and Refugees
* UN or NATO/European peacekeeping force?
* Geopolitics
* Is Peaceful Resolution Possible?

Root cause of soldier kidnapping is shallow: Media, Blair and Bush 
should look further back

The violence is reported by much of the mainstream media, by Tony 
Blair and George Bush and Israel, to be because of the kidnapping of 
an Israeli soldier. This is the root cause of the conflict Blair in 
particular insists. However, though that incident did indeed spark of 
the current round of violence, it seems to have been the last of a 
series of events building up to this situation.

Fairness and Accuracy In Reporting (FAIR), a media watchdog, details 
the omitted incidents in a couple of alerts, and is quoted at length 
from both (the second almost in its entirety) here:

The media assumption is that in withdrawing from Gaza in September 
2005, Israel ended its conflict with at least that portion of 
Palestine and gave up, as [CBS Face the Nation host (and CBS Evening 
News anchor) Bob] Schieffer put it, what the Palestinians supposedly 
wanted. In reality, however, since the pullout and before the recent 
escalation of violence, at least 144 Palestinians in Gaza had been 
killed by Israeli forces, often by helicopter gunships, according to 
a list compiled by the Israeli human rights group B'tselem. Only 31 
percent of the people killed were engaged in hostile actions at the 
time of their deaths, and 25 percent of all those killed were minors.

 From the time of the pullout until the recent upsurge in violence, 
according to B'tselem's lists, no Israelis were killed by violence 
emanating from Gaza. Although during this period Palestinian 
militants launched some 1,000 crude Kasam missiles from Gaza into 
Israel, no fatalities resulted; at the same time, Israel fired 7,000 
to 9,000 heavy artillery shells into Gaza. On June 9, just two weeks 
before the Hamas raid that killed two Israeli soldiers and captured a 
third, an apparent Israeli missile strike killed seven members of a 
Palestinian family picnicking on a Gaza beach, which prompted Hamas 
to end its 16-month-old informal ceasefire with Israel. (Though 
Israel has denied responsibility for the killings, a Human Rights 
Watch investigation strongly challenged the denial, calling the 
likelihood of Israel not being responsible remote; Human Rights 
Watch, 6/15/06.) Hamas has repeatedly pointed to the Gaza beach 
incident as one of the central events that prompted its cross-border 
raid-indeed, Schieffer's own CBS Evening News has reported that claim 
(CBS Evening News, 6/25/06). Even so, Schieffer seems unable to 
recall this recent event (see Action Alert, 6/30/06).

Hamas also points to the capture of some of its leaders by Israel as 
the provocation for its raid. If Israelis had every right, as 
Schieffer said, to respond with force to the capture of one soldier 
by Hamas, then how are Palestinians expected to feel about the more 
than 9,000 prisoners captured and held by Israel-including 342 
juveniles and over 700 held without trial (Mandela Center for Human 
Rights, 4/30/06)?

Moreover, Israel's withdrawal did not remotely give Palestinians 
what they wanted. In addition to its continued deadly attacks on 
Gaza, Israel has continued to control Gaza's borders and has withheld 
tens of millions of dollars of tax revenue in response to Hamas' 
victory in democratic elections in January 2006. Israel's actions 
crippled the Gaza economy and prompting warnings from the U.N. of a 
looming humanitarian disaster (UNRWA, 7/8/06).

None of this is to say that Hamas, which has regularly ignored the 
distinction between military and civilian targets, does not share 
part of the blame for the current crisis. But to act as though Israel 
had been behaving as a peace-loving neighbor to Gaza until the 
soldier's capture is a willful rewriting of very recent history.

- Because This Is the Middle East; CBS' Schieffer ignores context 
in Mideast crisis, Fairness and Accuracy In Reporting, July 19, 2006

As an aside, Blair rightly criticizes Hezbollah for firing thousands 
of rockets into Israel, but ignores the thousands of heavy artillery 
shells into Gaza.

Also, since the above has been

Re: [Biofuel] Exxon funding - update

Hi Tallex

Thanks for this.

Hi all,

Here is an updated list of Exxon funded orgs. Now, of course I am 
not against fighting malaria,

It's just a front group for pushing more use of DDT. See:
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Africa_Fighting_Malaria
Africa Fighting Malaria - SourceWatch

Best

Keith


but many of the others are dedicated to planting confusion, fighting 
any proposed strengthening of environmental protection legislation, 
promoting dirty fossil fuel useage and denying that global warming 
is even a problem.

As well, many of these hacks have websites and syndication deals with
major media co's to spread their lies.

regards
tallex


Acton Institute for the Study of Religion and Liberty has received 
$160,000 from ExxonMobil since 1998.
   Africa Fighting Malaria has received $30,000 from ExxonMobil since 1998.
   American Council for Capital Formation Center for Policy Research 
has received $1,309,523 from
ExxonMobil since 1998.
   American Council on Science and Health has received $110,000 from 
ExxonMobil since 1998.
   American Enterprise Institute for Public Policy Research has 
received $1,625,000 from ExxonMobil since
1998.
   American Enterprise Institute-Brookings Joint Center for 
Regulatory Studies has received $105,000 from
ExxonMobil since 1998.
   American Friends of the Institute for Economic Affairs has 
received $50,000 from ExxonMobil since 1998.
   American Legislative Exchange Council has received $1,189,700 
from ExxonMobil since 1998.
   American Spectator Foundation has received $15,000 from 
ExxonMobil since 1998.
   Arizona State University Office of Cimatology has received 
$49,500 from ExxonMobil since 1998.
   Aspen Institute has received $61,500 from ExxonMobil since 1998.
   Atlantic Legal Foundation has received $20,000 from ExxonMobil since 1998.
   Atlas Economic Research Foundation has received $680,000 from 
ExxonMobil since 1998.
   Capital Research Center and Greenwatch has received $190,000 from 
ExxonMobil since 1998.
   Cato Institute has received $90,000 from ExxonMobil since 1998.
   Center for American and International Law has received $177,450 
from ExxonMobil since 1998.
   Center for Strategic and International Studies has received 
$1,112,500 from ExxonMobil since 1998.
   Center for the Defense of Free Enterprise has received $230,000 
from ExxonMobil since 1998.
   Center for the New West has received $5,000 from ExxonMobil since 1998.
   Center for the Study of Carbon Dioxide and Global Change has 
received $90,000 from ExxonMobil since
1998.
   Centre for the New Europe has received $170,000 from ExxonMobil since 1998.
   Chemical Education Foundation has received $80,000 from 
ExxonMobil since 1998.
   Citizens for A Sound Economy and CSE Educational Foundation has 
received $380,250 from ExxonMobil
since 1998.
   Committee for a Constructive Tomorrow has received $472,000 from 
ExxonMobil since 1998.
   Communications Institute has received $125,000 from ExxonMobil since 1998.
   Competitive Enterprise Institute has received $2,005,000 from 
ExxonMobil since 1998.
   Congress of Racial Equality has received $250,000 from ExxonMobil 
since 1998.
   Consumer Alert has received $70,000 from ExxonMobil since 1998.
   Federalist Society for Law and Public Policy Studies has received 
$75,000 from ExxonMobil since 1998.
   Foundation for Research on Economics and the Environment has 
received $210,000 from ExxonMobil
since 1998.
   Fraser Institute has received $120,000 from ExxonMobil since 1998.
   Free Enterprise Action Institute has received $50,000 from 
ExxonMobil since 1998.
   Free Enterprise Education Institute has received $80,000 from 
ExxonMobil since 1998.
   Frontiers of Freedom Institute and Foundation has received 
$857,000 from ExxonMobil since 1998.
   George C. Marshall Institute has received $630,000 from 
ExxonMobil since 1998.
   George Mason University, Law and Economics Center has received 
$185,000 from ExxonMobil since 1998.
   Harvard Center for Risk Analysis has received $30,000 from 
ExxonMobil since 1998.
   Heartland Institute has received $561,500 from ExxonMobil since 1998.
   Heritage Foundation has received $555,000 from ExxonMobil since 1998.
   Hoover Institution on War, Revolution and Peace, Stanford 
University has received $295,000 from
ExxonMobil since 1998.
   Hudson Institute has received $25,000 from ExxonMobil since 1998.
   Independent Institute has received $70,000 from ExxonMobil since 1998.
   Institute for Energy Research has received $147,000 from 
ExxonMobil since 1998.
   Institute for Regulatory Science, 9200 Rumsey Road, Suite 205 
Columbia, MD 21045 USA
   Institute for Senior Studies has received $30,000 from ExxonMobil 
since 1998.
   Institute for the Study of Earth and Man has received $76,500 
from ExxonMobil since 1998.
   International affiliate of the American Council for Capital Formation.
   International Policy Network - North America has received 
$295,000 from

[Biofuel] WTO Doha Development Trade Round Collapses, at end of July 2006

Anup Shah
http://www.globalissues.org

WTO Doha Development Trade Round Collapses, at end of July 2006
Friday, July 28, 2006

Supposed to be a Development round of trade talks, the almost five 
year-long Doha round collapsed at the end of July, 2006. The US found 
itself on the defensive as around the world blame was directed at the 
US, in particular by the EU. However, the EU has also been part of 
the reason for failure throughout the five years. This article looks 
at what happened at the end of 2006, and also introduces a collection 
of articles that were written at the time of each previous major WTO 
meetings from the initial Doha round in 2001 and since.
http://www.globalissues.org/TradeRelated/FreeTrade/dohacollapse.asp

* Meeting fails because US feels developing countries not 
reciprocating on trade concessions.
* Media attention lacking
* Failure since the Doha Round started in 2001
* WTO Meeting in Hong Kong, 2005
* WTO July 2004 Package of Framework Agreements
* WTO Meeting in Cancun, Mexico, 2003
* WTO Meeting in Doha, Qatar, 2001

Meeting fails because US feels developing countries not reciprocating 
on trade concessions.

Technically, the US was blamed for causing the collapse in July 2006, 
because it felt that developing countries would not open markets in 
the same way that it was being asked to open its and so it saw no 
point in continuing the talks. It wanted what would seem like a fair 
deal: rich countries open their market, and poor countries do the 
same in return. Without understanding context or history, this sounds 
just and equal.

However, as discussed throughout this site, global trade has always 
been unequal, in favor of, dominated by, and influenced by, the rich 
countries. Hence, this tit for tat reciprocation, would continue 
the unequal global trade-under the guise of equality.

The Doha Development Round, as it has been known, was nicknamed 
that way to show that this round of trade negotiations were to favor 
poor countries' ability to develop and prosper from global trade, 
while acknowledging the unequal nature of global trade, dominated by 
industrialized countries, at the direct expense of the developing 
world.

India's commerce minister, Kamal Nath noted similar things:

This is a Development Round, completing it is extremely important but 
equally important is the content of the Round. The content has to 
demonstrate new opportunities for developing countries, primarily 
market access of developing countries into markets of developed 
countries.

This Round is not for perpetuating the flaws in global trade 
especially in agriculture, it's not to open markets in developing 
countries in order for developed countries to have access for their 
subsidized products to developing countries.

We say the Round should correct the structural flaws and distortions 
in the system, and there should be fair trade, not only free trade. 
They [US] say we want market access and only if we get it the way we 
want it can we correct the structural flaws. There is no equity in 
that argument.

- Kamal Nath, quoted by Martin Khor, All Doha talks suspended at WTO 
as G6 Ministerial collapses, Third World Network, July 24, 2006 
(Emphasis Added)
http://www.twnside.org.sg/title2/twninfo454.htm

Trade issues expert, Martin Khor, also added: Asked if the US and EU 
Ministers were 'shedding crocodiles tears' when they said they were 
sorry for developing countries that the talks had failed, Nath said 
those countries had got the whole concept of the Round inverted, they 
that advocated 'market access' that would displace millions of 
farmers, and this was a problem of their whole mindset. 'This is not 
what the Doha Declaration and the Hong Kong Declaration is about.'

Media attention lacking

If you lived in places such as the US or UK, you would be forgiven 
for not knowing that one of the most important meetings that affect 
almost all of the planet failed.

There was hardly a mention in many western mainstream media, 
certainly not on prime time television news broadcasts, that such an 
important meeting was taking place. Only as the meetings ended with 
dramatic collapse did the media appear to turn attention to this. Yet 
the headlines were more about the sensational bickering between the 
EU and US as to who was to blame for the collapse.

Maybe the media could be excused because of the conflict in Lebanon 
at the time, so that the media was not watching proceedings at the 
WTO talks. But those talks affect almost all of humanity. Do we 
really believe that the large mainstream media companies do not have 
resources to cover multiple major issues around the world at least?

Some may ask whether it matters if the media in the western 
mainstream cover this or not? Democracies are supposed to be 
accountable by an informed citizenry. The mainstream media is 
supposed to provide a window into issues to do with humanity and 
more, and with their vast resources, they are vital for a

Re: [Biofuel] RFID Controversy

Of course it does but be careful of accepting statements from the agitated and fearful. Of course there are antennas with gain but just like the spy satellites when you up the gain the beam becomes narrow. When a satellite is looking at a license plate it loses much of its surveilance ability. You cant watch a house and read a plate at the same time. The directional readers have to be pointed and the longer the range the more accurate the pointing - including vibration. 450 feet with omnidirectional antenna is not true for grain of wheat. It is bogus information. Sure spying is a business. Always was - always will be. Remember provoking stress in your victim is a tactic too. You can cause people to waste time and resources on mythical threats. My feedlot neighbor cant get an accurate read on cows 3 feet away so that is the reality of commercial equipment. 95% accurate isnt accurate enough for inventory control and sometimes he has
to try 3 or 4 times. As for hacking and eves dropping - never happen. You cannot control it.I can build a cell phone receiver with the tuner from a trashed VCR. A pretty sensitive one at that. 73 Magazine published details. -although it wasnt advertized for cellphone usage. As for data hacking read at slashdot.Kirk"D. Mindock" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is hardly paranoia. It is something that is increasing in capability and has to bewatched. Cheap readers exist that have a 60 foot range. More expensive ones havea 450 ft range with an omnidirectional antenna, with optional directional antenna that canincrease the range to quite a bit farther out. Let's face it. Spying is a growth industry herein the U$A, and probably elsewhere. Fear, divisiveness, and
distrust -- government inspired, create theenvironment for spying. The cattle monitoring application seems to be a legit one. Toll takingseems to be another one. Warehouse management for tracking and stopping pilferage isstill another. But like all technologies, RFID can be misused. It is up to us to make sureour Congress reps know that we want our privacy and identities protected. RFID has to bemade immune to hacking and eavesdropping, among other issues.Peace, D. Mindock- Original Message - From: "Doug Younker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2006 3:55 AMSubject: Re: [Biofuel] RFID Controversy I'm not ready to subscribe to the RFID paranoia just yet, mostly because of the content D. Mindock provided. I have to feel their extreme capabilities are being over stated In regards to beef, it will be the Rancher
who will be absorbing the cost of RFID implantation. As I understand it the tracking begins with the birthplace of the animal. Rancher or Feed lot will absorb all the costs, because the prices they get are set by the commodity markets Doug, N0LKK Kansas USA inc. When all else fails- Amateur Radio http://www.arrl.org/FandES/field/pscm/sec1-ch1.html ARES Kirk McLoren wrote: Just how far this can be depends on the type of the reader, but in the extreme case some readers have a maximum power output of 4 W , enabling signals to be received from tens of kilometres away.^[/citation needed/ ] ^-- ^This is misleading. This "reader" is basically a repeater and if instead was connected to the telco the
data could be received anywhere within telephone range - ie planet wide. It makes the tag look far more effective than it is. As for "printed" cicuits passivation (protection from environment) is still an issue and the designers biggest headache, power, is as unsolved as ever. The largest new use I am aware of is tracking carcasses. Japan has insisted on it because of mad cow fears. The chip has to withstand planting in the animal and so far reports from feedlot operators are that it is often unreliable and adds at least $10 to each animal for the tag. It is unlikely they will be recovered and returned from Japan as well. Then there is the cost of the readers and the book keeping. Feedlot operators have to pass the cost along of course. ^Kirk ___
Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.5/403 - Release Date: 7/28/2006 ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000
messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Yahoo!

Re: [Biofuel] Future car: What will you be driving?

I think that 100,000 is still vaporware. Nopurchaseable cultures of algusunobtainius ;) Kirk"D. Mindock" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Algae does seem to be a no brainer. So why isn't more impetus for it? We might even beable to harvest those algae blooms and make biodiesel from it.Peace, D. Mindock- Original Message - From: "Appal Energy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: Sent: Monday, July 31, 2006 12:39 PMSubject: Re: [Biofuel] Future car: What will you be driving? And/or 100,000 gallons of oil per acre when growing algae. Todd Swearingen \ Kirk McLoren wrote: 1000 gallons methanol per acre with hemp if using pyrolytic
distillation. Kirk */Jason Katie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>/* wrote: WHAT!?!?!?!?!? Could we replace all our oil with bio-fuels? Well... maybe. But it would be an extraordinary effort. A fifty-fifty mix of bio-diesel and ethanol would require putting three times the productive farm land in Iowa toward nothing but the production of fuel just to match what we currently import. Make it five Iowas to solve the whole problem. Trouble is, that much farm land is not readily available. There's also the little nit of figuring out what we eat while every scrap of land is busy working for our gas tanks. Naturally, if we combine bio-fuels with the two
hoped for goals in regular cars -- more efficient engines and lighter weight vehicles -- we can shrink the requisite greenspace. Brazil, which generates ethanol from sugar cane, has been systematically raising the amount of ethanol in their fuel supply, and Brazilian manufacturers have been adding small flex-fuel vehicles that can run on anything from E0 to E100. Zap is bringing at least one of these vehicles to US consumers next year. im all for the efficiency argument, but COME ON PEOPLE! doesnt anyone believe in using something OTHER than corn and soy? they are NOT the best feedstocks anyone could use for fuel! move to a better supply, not a higher yield. this is ridiculous! if the supply was a high density
stock the land requirement would be porportionally lower. for diesel replacement assume we used castor in the USA: -oil yield would be roughly 151 gallons per acre compared to 48 gallons of soy oil. -THEREFORE one acre of castor would eliminate the need for more than 3 acres of soy. which means those other 2 acres of new empty field could be used for food or- OH NO! TREES! for gasoline replacement assume we use sugarbeets (not very good, but more climate friendly) in the USA: -ethanol yield would be 412 gallons per acre compared to 214 gallons of corn ethanol -THEREFORE one acre of sugarbeets would eliminate the need for 1.9 acres of corn. you see where im going with this? by selective breeding of some of the more tropical
varieties of high density stock, we can slowly push the growing regions further north, increasing the supply density, and lowering the acreage needed to supply the same amount. WE DONT NEED CORN OR SOY FOR FUEL! i might be raving like an idiot, but noone can seem to understand that corn and soy are not the only crops in the world. Jason ICQ#: 154998177 MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000
messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less.___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] Future car: What will you be driving?

A house made of charcoal bickettes? Hm.Jason Katie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: what about making bricks out of it? add a hardener and press it into building materials. JasonICQ#: 154998177MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]- Original Message - From: Kirk McLoren To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, July 31, 2006 1:18 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Future car: What will you be driving?C is infinitely easier to sequester than CO2. Is a solid at room temperature and pressure.KirkJason Katie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: speaking of pyrolysis... what can we do with the carbon left over in the charcoal instead of burning it? this is a solid carbon that otherwise does not get into the atmosphere. can it be compacted or somehow removed from the short term carbon cycle? i know it sounds dumb, but if we can turn loose what
took millions of years to put away naturally why cant we find some way to speed a reversal artificially? Mama pulled all that carbon out of the cycle and buried it with solar power, cant we do anything to help her do it again?JasonICQ#: 154998177MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]- Original Message - From: Kirk McLorenTo: biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Sunday, July 30, 2006 9:07 PMSubject: Re: [Biofuel] Future car: What will you be driving?1000 gallons methanol per acre with hemp if using pyrolytic distillation.KirkJason Katie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:WHAT!?!?!?!?!? Could we replace all our oil with bio-fuels? Well... maybe. But it would be an extraordinary effort. A fifty-fifty mix of bio-diesel and ethanol would require putting three times the productive farm land in Iowa toward nothing but the production of fuel just to match what we currently
import. Make it five Iowas to solve the whole problem. Trouble is, that much farm land is not readily available. There's also the little nit of figuring out what we eat while every scrap of land is busy working for our gas tanks. Naturally, if we combine bio-fuels with the two hoped for goals in regular cars -- more efficient engines and lighter weight vehicles -- we can shrink the requisite greenspace. Brazil, which generates ethanol from sugar cane, has been systematically raising the amount of ethanol in their fuel supply, and Brazilian manufacturers have been adding small flex-fuel vehicles that can run on anything from E0 to E100. Zap is bringing at least one of these vehicles to US consumers next year.im all for the efficiency argument, but COME ON PEOPLE! doesnt anyonebelieve in using something OTHER than corn and soy? they are NOT the bestfeedstocks
anyone could use for fuel! move to a better supply, not a higheryield. this is ridiculous! if the supply was a high density stock the landrequirement would be porportionally lower.for diesel replacement assume we used castor in the USA:-oil yield would be roughly 151 gallons per acre compared to 48gallons of soy oil.-THEREFORE one acre of castor would eliminate the need for morethan 3 acres of soy.which means those other 2 acres of new empty field could beused for food or- OH NO! TREES!for gasoline replacement assume we use sugarbeets (not very good, but moreclimate friendly) in the USA:-ethanol yield would be 412 gallons per acre compared to 214 gallonsof corn ethanol-THEREFORE one acre of sugarbeets would eliminate the need for1.9 acres of corn.you see where im going with this?by selective breeding of some of the more tropical varieties of high densitystock, we can slowly push the growing
regions further north, increasing thesupply density, and lowering the acreage needed to supply the same amount.WE DONT NEED CORN OR SOY FOR FUEL! i might be raving like an idiot, butnoone can seem to understand that corn and soy are not the only crops in theworld.JasonICQ#: 154998177MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]-- No virus found in this outgoing message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.5/403 - Release Date: 7/28/2006___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/Do you
Yahoo!?Next-gen email? Have it all with the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta.___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.5/403 - Release Date: 7/28/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.394 /

[Biofuel] was..was.. Exxon funding - update

2006-08-01 Thread AltEnergyNetwork


You're welcome Keith.
These orgs are bit of a pet peeve of mine and I like to keep track of what
they are up to, My hate mail has gone down considerably since people are 
becoming increasingly
aware of what these people are really about..;-)

What disappoints me is the scarcity of major corps supporting real action for a 
more sustainable
planet. Sure, these days, everyone is jumping on the green wagon but consumers 
are becoming
confused by greenwashing. Say something often enough and people begin to 
believe it. (Goebels??)

I don't think that anyone could name a single co' that pours the incredable 
amount of 
money these guys do into positive causes instead of the many front orgs 
dedicated to the dark side



regards
tallex

  ---Original Message---
  From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Exxon funding - update
  Sent: 01 Aug '06 17:10
  
  Hi Tallex
  
  Thanks for this.
  
  Hi all,
  
  Here is an updated list of Exxon funded orgs. Now, of course I am
  not against fighting malaria,
  
  It's just a front group for pushing more use of DDT. See:
  http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Africa_Fighting_Malaria
  Africa Fighting Malaria - SourceWatch
  
  Best
  
  Keith
  
  
  but many of the others are dedicated to planting confusion, fighting
  any proposed strengthening of environmental protection legislation,
  promoting dirty fossil fuel useage and denying that global warming
  is even a problem.
  
  As well, many of these hacks have websites and syndication deals with
  major media co's to spread their lies.
  
  regards
  tallex
  
  
  Acton Institute for the Study of Religion and Liberty has received
  $160,000 from ExxonMobil since 1998.
     Africa Fighting Malaria has received $30,000 from ExxonMobil since 1998.
     American Council for Capital Formation Center for Policy Research
  has received $1,309,523 from
  ExxonMobil since 1998.
     American Council on Science and Health has received $110,000 from
  ExxonMobil since 1998.
     American Enterprise Institute for Public Policy Research has
  received $1,625,000 from ExxonMobil since
  1998.
     American Enterprise Institute-Brookings Joint Center for
  Regulatory Studies has received $105,000 from
  ExxonMobil since 1998.
     American Friends of the Institute for Economic Affairs has
  received $50,000 from ExxonMobil since 1998.
     American Legislative Exchange Council has received $1,189,700
  from ExxonMobil since 1998.
     American Spectator Foundation has received $15,000 from
  ExxonMobil since 1998.
     Arizona State University Office of Cimatology has received
  $49,500 from ExxonMobil since 1998.
     Aspen Institute has received $61,500 from ExxonMobil since 1998.
     Atlantic Legal Foundation has received $20,000 from ExxonMobil since 
 1998.
     Atlas Economic Research Foundation has received $680,000 from
  ExxonMobil since 1998.
     Capital Research Center and Greenwatch has received $190,000 from
  ExxonMobil since 1998.
     Cato Institute has received $90,000 from ExxonMobil since 1998.
     Center for American and International Law has received $177,450
  from ExxonMobil since 1998.
     Center for Strategic and International Studies has received
  $1,112,500 from ExxonMobil since 1998.
     Center for the Defense of Free Enterprise has received $230,000
  from ExxonMobil since 1998.
     Center for the New West has received $5,000 from ExxonMobil since 1998.
     Center for the Study of Carbon Dioxide and Global Change has
  received $90,000 from ExxonMobil since
  1998.
     Centre for the New Europe has received $170,000 from ExxonMobil since 
 1998.
     Chemical Education Foundation has received $80,000 from
  ExxonMobil since 1998.
     Citizens for A Sound Economy and CSE Educational Foundation has
  received $380,250 from ExxonMobil
  since 1998.
     Committee for a Constructive Tomorrow has received $472,000 from
  ExxonMobil since 1998.
     Communications Institute has received $125,000 from ExxonMobil since 
 1998.
     Competitive Enterprise Institute has received $2,005,000 from
  ExxonMobil since 1998.
     Congress of Racial Equality has received $250,000 from ExxonMobil
  since 1998.
     Consumer Alert has received $70,000 from ExxonMobil since 1998.
     Federalist Society for Law and Public Policy Studies has received
  $75,000 from ExxonMobil since 1998.
     Foundation for Research on Economics and the Environment has
  received $210,000 from ExxonMobil
  since 1998.
     Fraser Institute has received $120,000 from ExxonMobil since 1998.
     Free Enterprise Action Institute has received $50,000 from
  ExxonMobil since 1998.
     Free Enterprise Education Institute has received $80,000 from
  ExxonMobil since 1998.
     Frontiers of Freedom Institute and Foundation has received
  $857,000 from ExxonMobil since 1998.
     George C. Marshall Institute has received $630,000 from
  ExxonMobil since 1998.
     George Mason University, Law and

Re: [Biofuel] Future car: What will you be driving?

2006-08-01 Thread Jason Katie




not nessecarily a house, but yes a charcoal 
building.
JasonICQ#: 154998177MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Kirk 
  McLoren 
  To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org 
  
  Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2006 1:43 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Future car: What 
  will you be driving?
  A house made of charcoal bickettes? 
  Hm.Jason Katie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 
  



what about making bricks out of it? add a 
hardener and press it into building materials.
JasonICQ#: 154998177MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Kirk 
  McLoren 
  To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org 
  
  Sent: Monday, July 31, 2006 1:18 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Future car: 
  What will you be driving?
  
  C is infinitely easier to sequester than CO2. Is a solid at room 
  temperature and pressure.
  
  KirkJason Katie [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:
  speaking 
of pyrolysis... what can we do with the carbon left over in the 
charcoal instead of burning it? this is a solid carbon that 
otherwise does not get into the atmosphere. can it be compacted or 
somehow removed from the short term carbon cycle? i know it sounds 
dumb, but if we can turn loose what took millions of years to put 
away naturally why cant we find some way to speed a reversal 
artificially? Mama pulled all that carbon out of the cycle and 
buried it with solar power, cant we do anything to help her do it 
again?JasonICQ#: 154998177MSN: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]- Original Message - From: Kirk 
McLorenTo: biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Sunday, July 30, 
2006 9:07 PMSubject: Re: [Biofuel] Future car: What will you be 
driving?1000 gallons methanol per acre with hemp if using 
pyrolytic distillation.KirkJason Katie 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:WHAT!?!?!?!?!? Could we 
replace all our oil with bio-fuels? Well... maybe. But it would 
be an extraordinary effort. A fifty-fifty mix of bio-diesel and 
ethanol would require putting three times the productive farm 
land in Iowa toward nothing but the production of fuel just 
to match what we currently import. Make it five Iowas to solve 
the whole problem. Trouble is, that much farm land is not 
readily available. There's also the little nit of figuring 
out what we eat while every scrap of land is busy working for our 
gas tanks. Naturally, if we combine bio-fuels with the 
two hoped for goals in regular cars -- more efficient engines 
and lighter weight vehicles -- we can shrink the requisite 
greenspace. Brazil, which generates ethanol from sugar cane, 
has been systematically raising the amount of ethanol in their 
fuel supply, and Brazilian manufacturers have been adding small 
flex-fuel vehicles that can run on anything from E0 to E100. 
Zap is bringing at least one of these vehicles to US consumers 
next year.im all for the efficiency argument, but COME ON 
PEOPLE! doesnt anyonebelieve in using something OTHER than corn and 
soy? they are NOT the bestfeedstocks anyone could use for fuel! move 
to a better supply, not a higheryield. this is ridiculous! if the 
supply was a high density stock the landrequirement would be 
porportionally lower.for diesel replacement assume we used 
castor in the USA:-oil yield would be roughly 151 gallons per acre 
compared to 48gallons of soy oil.-THEREFORE one acre of castor 
would eliminate the need for morethan 3 acres of soy.which means 
those other 2 acres of new empty field could beused for food or- OH 
NO! TREES!for gasoline replacement assume we use sugarbeets (not 
very good, but moreclimate friendly) in the USA:-ethanol yield 
would be 412 gallons per acre compared to 214 gallonsof corn 
ethanol-THEREFORE one acre of sugarbeets would eliminate the need 
for1.9 acres of corn.you see where im going with this?by 
selective breeding of some of the more tropical varieties of high 
densitystock, we can slowly push the growing regions further north, 
increasing thesupply density, and lowering the acreage needed to 
supply the same amount.WE DONT NEED CORN OR SOY FOR FUEL! i might be 
raving like an idiot, butnoone can seem to understand that corn and 
soy are not the only crops in theworld.JasonICQ#: 
154998177MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]-- No virus 
found in this outgoing message.Checked by AVG Free 
Edition.Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.5/403 - Release 
Date: 
7/28/2006___Biofuel 
mailing

[Biofuel] Subject: Re: Have You Hugged Your Hummer Today?

2006-08-01 Thread Simon Fowler

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2006 07:51:10 -0500
From: bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Have You Hugged Your Hummer Today?
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

both honda and toyota hybrids (gasoline) do.
D. Mindock wrote:
 Hi,

   I think I recall that the VW Lugo uses a start/stop diesel engine and
get
 70mpg. It stops the engine at each
 stoppage of the vehicle. Can anyone verify this?

 Thanks, D. Mindock

They do not sell it here in Austria if they do make one like that. There is
one of the other manufacturers who have a spark ignition engine like that. I
do not know of a diesel that works like that.

I feel a hybrid only becomes interesting if you have a good regenerative
braking system and you have driving conditions (not to mention driving
habits!) that can make proper use of it. Prolonged driving at highway speeds
is not the real place for a hybrid.

There was a British-engined design many years ago that was basically an
electric car with a diesel generating set incorporated. I think it used a
Lister-Petter diesel. With this you have the engine running at a constant,
and hopefully efficient speed to charge the batteries. It must be about 15
years ago now. I can't remember what happened about it, but perhaps it was a
noise problem since the engine could be running at full speed whilst
standing at traffic lights or wherever.

I am not sure that we are really such great rule-followers here, but it
seems sensible to stop the engine when you are waiting for any length of
time. 'The level-crossing near me can be shut for ten minutes. There was a
study about it a number of years ago. I think they said that it made sense
if you were going to wait more than about 25 seconds, and there are three
sets of lights where than can be the case on the way to work. You can see
where they are in the cycle and adjust accordingly.

By the way, even if all or most modern injection pumps can cope with
biodiesel these days, this is not necessarily the case for the seal ring on
some cheap after-market diesel filters (bad experience last week). When that
decides to leak air badly, then you are going nowhere!

Simon

___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] Subject: Re: Have You Hugged Your Hummer Today?

2006-08-01 Thread robert and benita rabello

Simon Fowler wrote:

I feel a hybrid only becomes interesting if you have a good regenerative
braking system and you have driving conditions (not to mention driving
habits!) that can make proper use of it.


The Toyota system is fully regenerative.  Our fuel economy has been 
steadily improving as the car breaks in.

Prolonged driving at highway speeds
is not the real place for a hybrid.
  


When we drove down to California, one advantage of driving a hybrid 
that we experienced involved the constant hill climbing in Southern 
Oregon and Northern California.  Fuel economy would decline on the climb 
(where both the battery and engine were being used), but on the way 
downhill, the engine would shut off and the battery would 
regenerate--even at highway speeds.  This was one reason why our fuel 
economy average remained so high on the trip.

Southern California is remarkably mountainous, too.  The hybrid 
drive system did very well on hilly terrain.  I've never been to Europe, 
so I can't speak for the driving conditions there.

There was a British-engined design many years ago that was basically an
electric car with a diesel generating set incorporated. I think it used a
Lister-Petter diesel. With this you have the engine running at a constant,
and hopefully efficient speed to charge the batteries. It must be about 15
years ago now. I can't remember what happened about it, but perhaps it was a
noise problem since the engine could be running at full speed whilst
standing at traffic lights or wherever.
  


But a modern engine control system would be able to deal with that 
problem.

robert luis rabello
The Edge of Justice
Adventure for Your Mind
http://www.newadventure.ca

Ranger Supercharger Project Page
http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/


___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] EV is not dead

2006-08-01 Thread Darryl McMahon

Joe,
I don't know of any Civic conversions personally - they tend to 
biodegrade too soon around here to be popular as conversions. 

Different story in California where they fail smog tests long before the 
bodies are done.

There is a Del Sol somewhere around here that the owner is looking to 
sell mostly for parts because the body is beginning to give way.  That 
might be a pretty clean swap out to convert your Civic.  If you are 
interested, I'll see if I can track it down.  I suspect the price will 
be significant, but likely a bargain as the owner was not known for 
cutting corners or using anything but first-rate parts and materials.  
There's also a first-class EV conversion guy locally who as of last 
night does not currently have a vehicle project in his shop.  He is 
currently restoring the controller from a 1922 Milburn Light electric - 
he does museum quality work.

Darryl

Joe Street wrote:

Hey Darryl;

I still have my '92 civic hatch sitting in my driveway.  Do you know of 
any instructions or anyone who has converted one to electric?

Joe

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  

Tony Marzolino wrote:



Hey Guys - These are great, but once again..NO prices and NO
availability?   Are there any REAL options available for US
consumers?

Thanks, Tony Marzolino
  

Make your own.

Just back from a quick jaunt in the e-914 conversion.  Starting to track
some energy consumption stats.  Looks to be less than 0.2 kWh per km, or
better than 5 km/kWh.  Took my wife out for Dim Sum, first time I have
had her out with the targa top off.  Based on comments and facial
expressions, I think the bug-eyed little electric is winning her over.

If you want sustainable transportation, it's still up to you.  Biofuels
are one route, human power another.  If you want to go electric, consider
where your electricity is coming from.  You can buy green power from most
U.S. utilities now.  If not, you can buy Green Tags (which is what I do).

I believe you can buy a Tango today - George Clooney did.

Second hand EVs come up for sale on occasion.  Here are some links to EV 4
sale sites:
http://www.econogics.com/ev/evdl.htm#Sale

If you want to start with something smaller, consider an electric bike:
http://www.econogics.com/ev/evbikes.htm

(By way of comparison, my e-bike appears to get about somewhere around 100
km/kWh).

or electric moped:
http://www.econogics.com/ev/evmopeds.htm

or electric scooter:
http://www.econogics.com/ev/evscoots.htm

or even an electric skateboard:
http://www.econogics.com/ev/evboards.htm

Other options for starting small are boats:
http://www.econogics.com/ev/evboats.htm

or electric mowers or electric tractors:
http://www.econogics.com/ev/evtools.htm

or electric go-karts or yard-karts:
http://www.econogics.com/ev/evkarts.htm

The resurgence of interest in production EVs today is predictable, it
rises and falls with gasoline prices.  We've been here before, with more
success in the 1970s (ComutaCars) and the 1990s (CARB ZEV mandate).  You
won't see them in North America until GM and Ford are both gone, and the
oil lobby no longer owns the White House.  Technology is not, and has not
been, the issue for a long time.

If you want to support on-road EVs directly, including plug-in hybrid EVs,
today, join the Electric Auto Association.
http://www.eaaev.org/

Darryl McMahon



doug swanson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And then there's Tesla
Motors, with a convertible!

http://www.teslamotors.com/index.php?js_enabled=1

doug swanson



Joe Street wrote:



  

Yy!

http://news.en.autos.sympatico.msn.ca/article.aspx?cp-documentid=673300


Joe



___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/






___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/



  



-- 
Darryl McMahon  http://www.econogics.com
It's your planet.  If you won't look after it, who will?



___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] EV is not dead

2006-08-01 Thread Zeke Yewdall

I've seen one or two civic conversions. One late 80's, and one mid 90's era. Seemed pretty nice, especially the 90's one which used a 9 motor and a 120 volt battery pack, which is generally used in the small pickup conversions -- it could easily turf the tires if you launched to quickly. But both used Advanced DC motors which don't allow regen... But they are only about $1,600 for the motor, and probably under $4k for a complete drive system, compared to $32k for a single purchase of a AC Propulsion complete drive system -- so you can see why everyone uses the series DC motors for conversions. I've also got a line on an old Electrek, which uses a shunt wound GE motor, so it's got regen too. I almost bought it before I moved to the mountains where I have a 4,000 vertical feet commute. It will make it, but only at 10 or 15mph or so, which given the speed limit of 35, and traffic speed of 45, would annoy all the SUV drivers... Putting NiMH batteries in it would probably improve it a bit by dropping the curb weight, but those are pricey too.
On 8/1/06, Darryl McMahon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Joe,I don't know of any Civic conversions personally - they tend tobiodegrade too soon around here to be popular as conversions.Different story in California where they fail smog tests long before thebodies are done.
There is a Del Sol somewhere around here that the owner is looking tosell mostly for parts because the body is beginning to give way.Thatmight be a pretty clean swap out to convert your Civic.If you are
interested, I'll see if I can track it down.I suspect the price willbe significant, but likely a bargain as the owner was not known forcutting corners or using anything but first-rate parts and materials.
There's also a first-class EV conversion guy locally who as of lastnight does not currently have a vehicle project in his shop.He iscurrently restoring the controller from a 1922 Milburn Light electric -he does museum quality work.
DarrylJoe Street wrote:Hey Darryl;I still have my '92 civic hatch sitting in my driveway.Do you know ofany instructions or anyone who has converted one to electric?
Joe[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Tony Marzolino wrote:Hey Guys - These are great, but once again..NO prices and NO
availability? Are there any REAL options available for USconsumers?Thanks, Tony MarzolinoMake your own.
Just back from a quick jaunt in the e-914 conversion.Starting to tracksome energy consumption stats.Looks to be less than 0.2 kWh per km, orbetter than 5 km/kWh.Took my wife out for Dim Sum, first time I have
had her out with the targa top off.Based on comments and facialexpressions, I think the bug-eyed little electric is winning her over.If you want sustainable transportation, it's still up to you.Biofuels
are one route, human power another.If you want to go electric, considerwhere your electricity is coming from.You can buy green power from mostU.S. utilities now.If not, you can buy Green Tags (which is what I do).
I believe you can buy a Tango today - George Clooney did.Second hand EVs come up for sale on occasion.Here are some links to EV 4sale sites:
http://www.econogics.com/ev/evdl.htm#SaleIf you want to start with something smaller, consider an electric bike:http://www.econogics.com/ev/evbikes.htm
(By way of comparison, my e-bike appears to get about somewhere around 100km/kWh).or electric moped:
http://www.econogics.com/ev/evmopeds.htmor electric scooter:http://www.econogics.com/ev/evscoots.htmor even an electric skateboard:
http://www.econogics.com/ev/evboards.htmOther options for starting small are boats:
http://www.econogics.com/ev/evboats.htmor electric mowers or electric tractors:http://www.econogics.com/ev/evtools.htm
or electric go-karts or yard-karts:http://www.econogics.com/ev/evkarts.htmThe resurgence of interest in production EVs today is predictable, it
rises and falls with gasoline prices.We've been here before, with moresuccess in the 1970s (ComutaCars) and the 1990s (CARB ZEV mandate).Youwon't see them in North America until GM and Ford are both gone, and the
oil lobby no longer owns the White House.Technology is not, and has notbeen, the issue for a long time.If you want to support on-road EVs directly, including plug-in hybrid EVs,
today, join the Electric Auto Association.http://www.eaaev.org/Darryl McMahondoug swanson 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And then there's TeslaMotors, with a convertible!
http://www.teslamotors.com/index.php?js_enabled=1doug swansonJoe Street wrote:
Yy!http://news.en.autos.sympatico.msn.ca/article.aspx?cp-documentid=673300
Joe___Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org
Biofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/___
Biofuel

Re: [Biofuel] Future car: What will you be driving?

2006-08-01 Thread Zeke Yewdall

Well, it might be a little fire prone, but we build houses out of wood now...On 8/1/06, Jason Katie [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:




not nessecarily a house, but yes a charcoal 
building.
JasonICQ#: 154998177MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

  - Original Message - 
  
From: 
  Kirk 
  McLoren 
  To: 
biofuel@sustainablelists.org 
  
  Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2006 1:43 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Future car: What 
  will you be driving?
  A house made of charcoal bickettes? 
  Hm.Jason Katie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 
  



what about making bricks out of it? add a 
hardener and press it into building materials.
JasonICQ#: 154998177MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

  - Original Message - 

  
From: 
  Kirk 
  McLoren 
  To: 
biofuel@sustainablelists.org 
  
  Sent: Monday, July 31, 2006 1:18 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Future car: 
  What will you be driving?
  
  C is infinitely easier to sequester than CO2. Is a solid at room 
  temperature and pressure.
  
  KirkJason Katie [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:
  speaking 
of pyrolysis... what can we do with the carbon left over in the 
charcoal instead of burning it? this is a solid carbon that 
otherwise does not get into the atmosphere. can it be compacted or 
somehow removed from the short term carbon cycle? i know it sounds 
dumb, but if we can turn loose what took millions of years to put 
away naturally why cant we find some way to speed a reversal 
artificially? Mama pulled all that carbon out of the cycle and 
buried it with solar power, cant we do anything to help her do it 
again?JasonICQ#: 154998177MSN: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]- Original Message - From: Kirk 
McLorenTo: biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Sunday, July 30, 
2006 9:07 PMSubject: Re: [Biofuel] Future car: What will you be 
driving?1000 gallons methanol per acre with hemp if using 
pyrolytic distillation.KirkJason Katie 
wrote:WHAT!?!?!?!?!? Could we 
replace all our oil with bio-fuels? Well... maybe. But it would 
be an extraordinary effort. A fifty-fifty mix of bio-diesel and 
ethanol would require putting three times the productive farm 
land in Iowa toward nothing but the production of fuel just 
to match what we currently import. Make it five Iowas to solve 
the whole problem. Trouble is, that much farm land is not 
readily available. There's also the little nit of figuring 
out what we eat while every scrap of land is busy working for our 
gas tanks. Naturally, if we combine bio-fuels with the 
two hoped for goals in regular cars -- more efficient engines 
and lighter weight vehicles -- we can shrink the requisite 
greenspace. Brazil, which generates ethanol from sugar cane, 
has been systematically raising the amount of ethanol in their 
fuel supply, and Brazilian manufacturers have been adding small 
flex-fuel vehicles that can run on anything from E0 to E100. 
Zap is bringing at least one of these vehicles to US consumers 
next year.im all for the efficiency argument, but COME ON 
PEOPLE! doesnt anyonebelieve in using something OTHER than corn and 
soy? they are NOT the bestfeedstocks anyone could use for fuel! move 
to a better supply, not a higheryield. this is ridiculous! if the 
supply was a high density stock the landrequirement would be 
porportionally lower.for diesel replacement assume we used 
castor in the USA:-oil yield would be roughly 151 gallons per acre 
compared to 48gallons of soy oil.-THEREFORE one acre of castor 
would eliminate the need for morethan 3 acres of soy.which means 
those other 2 acres of new empty field could beused for food or- OH 
NO! TREES!for gasoline replacement assume we use sugarbeets (not 
very good, but moreclimate friendly) in the USA:-ethanol yield 
would be 412 gallons per acre compared to 214 gallonsof corn 
ethanol-THEREFORE one acre of sugarbeets would eliminate the need 
for1.9 acres of corn.you see where im going with this?by 
selective breeding of some of the more tropical varieties of high 
densitystock, we can slowly push the growing regions further north, 
increasing thesupply density, and lowering the acreage needed to 
supply the same amount.WE DONT NEED CORN OR SOY FOR FUEL! i might be 
raving like an idiot, butnoone can seem to understand that corn and 
soy are not the only crops in theworld.JasonICQ#: 
154998177MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]-- No virus 
found in this outgoing message.Checked by AVG Free 
Edition.Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.5/403 - Release 
Date:

Re: [Biofuel] EV is not dead

2006-08-01 Thread Darryl McMahon

Personally, I like the Advanced DC motors.  But then I think regen is 
over-rated.  If you learn to drive so that you use the brakes as little 
as possible, then regen offers little advantage, for there is little 
braking energy for it to recoup.  Good strategy for improving fuel 
economy in ICE vehicles too.

An Electrek - wow that takes me back.  So ugly they were cute.  How's 
the body (plastic I think) holding up after all these years? 

Darryl

Zeke Yewdall wrote:

 I've seen one or two civic conversions.  One late 80's, and one mid 90's
 era.  Seemed pretty nice, especially the 90's one which used a 9 
 motor and
 a 120 volt battery pack, which is generally used in the small pickup
 conversions -- it could easily turf the tires if you launched to quickly.
 But both used Advanced DC motors which don't allow regen...  But they are
 only about $1,600 for the motor, and probably under $4k for a complete 
 drive
 system, compared to $32k for a single purchase of a AC Propulsion 
 complete
 drive system -- so you can see why everyone uses the series DC motors for
 conversions.  I've also got a line on an old Electrek, which uses a shunt
 wound GE motor, so it's got regen too.  I almost bought it before I 
 moved to
 the mountains where I have a 4,000 vertical feet commute.  It will 
 make it,
 but only at 10 or 15mph or so, which given the speed limit of 35, and
 traffic speed of 45, would annoy all the SUV drivers...   Putting NiMH
 batteries in it would probably improve it a bit by dropping the curb 
 weight,
 but those are pricey too.

 On 8/1/06, Darryl McMahon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


 Joe,
 I don't know of any Civic conversions personally - they tend to
 biodegrade too soon around here to be popular as conversions.

 Different story in California where they fail smog tests long before the
 bodies are done.

 There is a Del Sol somewhere around here that the owner is looking to
 sell mostly for parts because the body is beginning to give way.  That
 might be a pretty clean swap out to convert your Civic.  If you are
 interested, I'll see if I can track it down.  I suspect the price will
 be significant, but likely a bargain as the owner was not known for
 cutting corners or using anything but first-rate parts and materials.
 There's also a first-class EV conversion guy locally who as of last
 night does not currently have a vehicle project in his shop.  He is
 currently restoring the controller from a 1922 Milburn Light electric -
 he does museum quality work.

 Darryl

 Joe Street wrote:

 Hey Darryl;
 
 I still have my '92 civic hatch sitting in my driveway.  Do you know of
 any instructions or anyone who has converted one to electric?
 
 Joe
 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 
 
 Tony Marzolino wrote:
 
 
 
 Hey Guys - These are great, but once again..NO prices and NO
 availability?   Are there any REAL options available for US
 consumers?
 
 Thanks, Tony Marzolino
 
 
 Make your own.
 
 Just back from a quick jaunt in the e-914 conversion.  Starting to 
 track
 some energy consumption stats.  Looks to be less than 0.2 kWh per 
 km, or
 better than 5 km/kWh.  Took my wife out for Dim Sum, first time I have
 had her out with the targa top off.  Based on comments and facial
 expressions, I think the bug-eyed little electric is winning her over.
 
 If you want sustainable transportation, it's still up to you.  
 Biofuels
 are one route, human power another.  If you want to go electric,
 consider
 where your electricity is coming from.  You can buy green power from
 most
 U.S. utilities now.  If not, you can buy Green Tags (which is what I
 do).
 
 I believe you can buy a Tango today - George Clooney did.
 
 Second hand EVs come up for sale on occasion.  Here are some links 
 to EV
 4
 sale sites:
 http://www.econogics.com/ev/evdl.htm#Sale
 
 If you want to start with something smaller, consider an electric 
 bike:
 http://www.econogics.com/ev/evbikes.htm
 
 (By way of comparison, my e-bike appears to get about somewhere around
 100
 km/kWh).
 
 or electric moped:
 http://www.econogics.com/ev/evmopeds.htm
 
 or electric scooter:
 http://www.econogics.com/ev/evscoots.htm
 
 or even an electric skateboard:
 http://www.econogics.com/ev/evboards.htm
 
 Other options for starting small are boats:
 http://www.econogics.com/ev/evboats.htm
 
 or electric mowers or electric tractors:
 http://www.econogics.com/ev/evtools.htm
 
 or electric go-karts or yard-karts:
 http://www.econogics.com/ev/evkarts.htm
 
 The resurgence of interest in production EVs today is 
 predictable, it
 rises and falls with gasoline prices.  We've been here before, with 
 more
 success in the 1970s (ComutaCars) and the 1990s (CARB ZEV 
 mandate).  You
 won't see them in North America until GM and Ford are both gone, 
 and the
 oil lobby no longer owns the White House.  Technology is not, and has
 not
 been, the issue for a long time.
 
 If you want to support on-road EVs directly, including plug-in hybrid
 EVs,
 today, join the

Re: [Biofuel] EV is not dead

2006-08-01 Thread Zeke Yewdall

On 8/1/06, Darryl McMahon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Personally, I like the Advanced DC motors.But then I think regen isover-rated.Note my description of my 4,000 vertical feet commute other than that, I agree with you -- don't drive so fast and anticipate traffic and you don't really need the brakes that much.
If you learn to drive so that you use the brakes as littleas possible, then regen offers little advantage, for there is little
braking energy for it to recoup.Good strategy for improving fueleconomy in ICE vehicles too.An Electrek - wow that takes me back.So ugly they were cute.How'sthe body (plastic I think) holding up after all these years?
Yeah, they had rather unique styling didn't they... I sort of like it. The body is actually in great shape -- it's been covered for the last 8 years or so. A little chipped on the front end from dirt roads, but not alot of damage from UV. Just needs a new battery pack, tires, and motor brushes, to be back on the road.
DarrylZeke Yewdall wrote: I've seen one or two civic conversions.One late 80's, and one mid 90's
 era.Seemed pretty nice, especially the 90's one which used a 9 motor and a 120 volt battery pack, which is generally used in the small pickup conversions -- it could easily turf the tires if you launched to quickly.
 But both used Advanced DC motors which don't allow regen...But they are only about $1,600 for the motor, and probably under $4k for a complete drive system, compared to $32k for a single purchase of a AC Propulsion
 complete drive system -- so you can see why everyone uses the series DC motors for conversions.I've also got a line on an old Electrek, which uses a shunt wound GE motor, so it's got regen too.I almost bought it before I
 moved to the mountains where I have a 4,000 vertical feet commute.It will make it, but only at 10 or 15mph or so, which given the speed limit of 35, and traffic speed of 45, would annoy all the SUV drivers... Putting NiMH
 batteries in it would probably improve it a bit by dropping the curb weight, but those are pricey too. On 8/1/06, Darryl McMahon [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote: Joe, I don't know of any Civic conversions personally - they tend to biodegrade too soon around here to be popular as conversions. Different story in California where they fail smog tests long before the
 bodies are done. There is a Del Sol somewhere around here that the owner is looking to sell mostly for parts because the body is beginning to give way.That might be a pretty clean swap out to convert your Civic.If you are
 interested, I'll see if I can track it down.I suspect the price will be significant, but likely a bargain as the owner was not known for cutting corners or using anything but first-rate parts and materials.
 There's also a first-class EV conversion guy locally who as of last night does not currently have a vehicle project in his shop.He is currently restoring the controller from a 1922 Milburn Light electric -
 he does museum quality work. Darryl Joe Street wrote: Hey Darryl;  I still have my '92 civic hatch sitting in my driveway.Do you know of
 any instructions or anyone who has converted one to electric?  Joe  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 
   Tony Marzolino wrote:Hey Guys - These are great, but once again..NO prices and NO
 availability? Are there any REAL options available for US consumers?  Thanks, Tony Marzolino 
  Make your own.  Just back from a quick jaunt in the e-914 conversion.Starting to track some energy consumption stats.Looks to be less than 
0.2 kWh per km, or better than 5 km/kWh.Took my wife out for Dim Sum, first time I have had her out with the targa top off.Based on comments and facial expressions, I think the bug-eyed little electric is winning her over.
  If you want sustainable transportation, it's still up to you. Biofuels are one route, human power another.If you want to go electric, consider
 where your electricity is coming from.You can buy green power from most U.S. utilities now.If not, you can buy Green Tags (which is what I do). 
 I believe you can buy a Tango today - George Clooney did.  Second hand EVs come up for sale on occasion.Here are some links to EV 4
 sale sites: http://www.econogics.com/ev/evdl.htm#Sale  If you want to start with something smaller, consider an electric
 bike: http://www.econogics.com/ev/evbikes.htm  (By way of comparison, my e-bike appears to get about somewhere around
 100 km/kWh).  or electric moped: http://www.econogics.com/ev/evmopeds.htm
  or electric scooter: http://www.econogics.com/ev/evscoots.htm  or even an electric skateboard:
 http://www.econogics.com/ev/evboards.htm  Other options for starting small are boats: 
http://www.econogics.com/ev/evboats.htm  or electric mowers or electric tractors: 
http://www.econogics.com/ev/evtools.htm  or electric go-karts or yard-karts: http://www.econogics.com/ev/evkarts.htm
  The resurgence of interest in production EVs today is predictable, it rises and falls with gasoline prices.We've been here

Re: [Biofuel] Future car: What will you be driving?

I think it far simpler to build a "coal" mine in reverse. Pure carbon isnt structural and is quite combustible.Jason Katie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: not nessecarily a house, but yes a charcoal building. JasonICQ#: 154998177MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]- Original Message - From: Kirk McLoren To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2006 1:43 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Future car: What will you be driving? A house made of charcoal bickettes? Hm.Jason Katie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: what about making bricks out of it? add a hardener and press it into building materials. JasonICQ#: 154998177MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]- Original Message - From: Kirk McLoren To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, July 31, 2006 1:18 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Future car: What will you be driving?C is infinitely easier to sequester than CO2. Is a solid at room temperature and pressure.KirkJason Katie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: speaking of pyrolysis... what can we do with the carbon left over in the charcoal instead of burning it? this is a solid carbon that otherwise does not get into the atmosphere. can it be compacted or somehow removed from the short term carbon cycle? i know it sounds dumb, but if we can turn loose what took millions of years to put away naturally why cant we find some way to speed a reversal artificially? Mama pulled all that carbon out of the cycle and buried it with solar power, cant we do anything to help her do it again?JasonICQ#: 154998177MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]- Original Message - From: Kirk McLorenTo: biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Sunday, July 30, 2006 9:07 PMSubject: Re: [Biofuel] Future car: What will you be driving?1000 gallons methanol per acre with hemp if using pyrolytic
distillation.Kirk
Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min.___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] Future car: What will you be driving?

2006-08-01 Thread Jason Katie

is there a way tomix it with recycled
powdered glass and press and heat it untilthe glass melts and forms a
"cage" to hold it together and maybe slow or stall any combustion?
JasonICQ#: 154998177MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

- Original Message -
From:
Kirk
McLoren
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org

Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2006 8:28
PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Future car: What
will you be driving?
I think it far simpler to build a "coal" mine in reverse. Pure
carbon isnt structural and is quite combustible.Jason Katie
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

not nessecarily a house, but yes a charcoal
building.
JasonICQ#: 154998177MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

- Original Message -
From:
Kirk
McLoren
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org

Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2006 1:43
PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Future car:
What will you be driving?
A house made of charcoal bickettes?
Hm.Jason Katie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

what about making bricks out of it? add a
hardener and press it into building materials.
JasonICQ#: 154998177MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

- Original Message -
From:
Kirk McLoren
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org

Sent: Monday, July 31, 2006 1:18
PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Future
car: What will you be driving?

C is infinitely easier to sequester than CO2. Is a solid at room
temperature and pressure.

KirkJason Katie [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
speaking
of pyrolysis... what can we do with the carbon left over in the
charcoal instead of burning it? this is a solid carbon that
otherwise does not get into the atmosphere. can it be compacted
or somehow removed from the short term carbon cycle? i know it
sounds dumb, but if we can turn loose what took millions of
years to put away naturally why cant we find some way to speed a
reversal artificially? Mama pulled all that carbon out of the
cycle and buried it with solar power, cant we do anything to
help her do it again?JasonICQ#: 154998177MSN:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]- Original Message - From:
Kirk McLorenTo: biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Sunday,
July 30, 2006 9:07 PMSubject: Re: [Biofuel] Future car: What
will you be driving?1000 gallons methanol per acre with
hemp if using pyrolytic
distillation.Kirk

Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "us.rd.yahoo.com" claiming to be Great
rates starting at 1¢/min.

___Biofuel mailing
listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel
at Journey to
Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the
combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000
messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free
Edition.Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.5/404 - Release Date:
7/31/2006
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.5/404 - Release Date: 7/31/2006
___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] safe temperature