Re: [Biofuel] Help with Processor
Hi, I used a copper immersion heater element for several years with no problems, although a stainless one would be more durable. I obtained a 'mechanical boss' for the immersion heater in a local (UK) plumbers merchant which eases and improves the fit through the tank, it also makes replacement easier. Philip - Original Message From: Mark` Cookson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2006 8:47:59 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Help with Processor keith Thanks for that, you can get stainless immersion heater[element] but they are a fortune to buy brand new. I thought any list members may know of other alternatives? [ or supplys in the UK] Mark From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Help with Processor Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 12:51:09 +0900 Hi to every one, I am trying to build a processor but having difficulty in finding a heater element that is not made of copper? I am in the UK, I have been told, in Holland they make a brass emersion heater element but I can not find a supplier here in the UK. Any suggestions anybody? Mark Hi Mark Brass won't do either, neither will bronze, lead, tin and zinc. Aluminium doesn't react with biodiesel but it does react with lye so you can't use it in a processor. Stainless steel is best. Stainless steel immersion heaters definitely exist, surely obtainable in all countries. Seek and ye shall find. HTH, good luck. Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ _ Windows Live™ Messenger has arrived. Click here to download it for free! http://imagine-msn.com/messenger/launch80/?locale=en-gb ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Major Problems Of Surviving Peak Oil
See Stephen Leeb's The Coming Economic Collapse: How You Can Thrive When Oil Costs $200 a Barrel. Leeb would have us buying stocks in various companies because that's his business. The points he makes about why the price of oil must rise to levels far beyond we know today are my reason for directing our attention to the book. It really does come down to a massive population growing exponentially and an economic model promoted by the USA. Bottom line is, we're screwed, at least as far as the world as we've known it run on oil is concerned. Maybe all the JTF List could put our money, talents, and lives together on some remote island or somewhere in New Zealand and start something that might survive through the coming chaos and become a beacon of hope to the world. Use the JTF Credo as our basis for community life. I'm serious! What, aint gonna happen??? Ah well, to unquote something the bard didn't say, all's not well that doesn't end well. Ah well... Mike DuPree - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2006 9:59 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Major Problems Of Surviving Peak Oil Thompson, Mark L. (PNB RD) wrote: What is all this "Peak Oil" end of the world garbage. Oil is a finite resource. All that remains to debate is when we will "run out" (and what the definition of that is). I think things get ugly once core demand exceeds production on a world scale. Personally, I expect that within my lifetime. I think affordability will be a factor long before oil is exhausted in a technical sense. I trust you have read Deffeyes, Hubbert, ASPO, Simmons, etc. and have evidence that debunks them. We have many decades if not 100+ years of conventional oil left. Emmm, actually North America has about 5 years of conventional oil left, if it were not for imports. (6 if you include ANWR.) Does your forecast allow for increasing and accelerating rates of consumption year over year?Or does it assume flat consumption into the future, like the optimistic government forecasts? We have huge amounts of Tar Sands (1.7 Trillion barrels) to exploit. Actually, I doubt we can afford to do that. The groundwater and natural gas consumed in that processing will run out first. If we use oil from the oil sands to make more oil from the oil sands, my understanding is that this is a losing proposition on an EROEI basis based on the exising process and facilities (from oil sand to refined consumer product). We have potential 1000's of years worth of Methane-Hydrates available. For which we currently do not have a viable technology in place as yet to harvest them. The implications of releasing that much methane into the environment (leakage, losses, accidents), or even the carbon dioxide resulting from using it do not bode well for habitability of the planet for humans in the long term. Perhaps you plan to use this methane to support the production of oil from the oil sands. Estimated to be greater than twice the world total of oil. We have almost limitless Nuclear energy potential through the use of Breeder, Light water and Heavy water reactors. And no solutions in place on how to deal with the spent fuel on a permanent basis, well, other than putting them into weapons, be they nuclear weapons, depleted uranium in artillery shells, or dirty bombs. Even France is having second thoughts about the breeder cycle. Not to mention the other - Wind - Water - Solar - BioFuels - etc. Now we're getting to sustainable solutions. All of which are up and coming. The higher energy cost go up the more pressure there will be on "Alternate" sources. Do you think we have enough time to implement these solutions on a mass scale before oil and natural gas shortages, even intermittent ones, are disrupting the technological infrastructure that underpins western "civilization"? Alberta has just put a road-block in front of further wind development in the province. The U.S. federal government is actively working against the Cape wind project. However, billions are being spent on green-washing coal. As said before "Everything changes." All we need to do is plan for then and adapt. There are limits to adaptation. Extinction is also an option. If the average temperature on the planet's surface rises dramatically, we won't last long. Humans don't survive long when exposed to temperatures above 40 degrees C for extended periods. Go for it Anti-Carbon Crusaders, I see it coming. If we render the planet's surface uninhabitable for humans, where do you suggest we go? Space travel for 8 billion humans plus some life support strikes me as a rather energy intensive proposition. Darryl Mark -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Mullan Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2006 12:14 PM To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Major Problems Of
Re: [Biofuel] Word Play
True. I always get a laugh when people use the term hign octane when they mean high powered. There was a computer company that even went so far as to name a product Octane. They are pretty much out of business now. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Detonation (knocking) and preignition are different, although preignition promotes detonation. Doug Woodard St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada From: Jason Katie [EMAIL PROTECTED] actually it stops predetonation(going off too early) in high compression gasoline engines which can damage the engine. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Help with Processor
Thanks for your words Philip, I am going to try a washing machine one as sugested. I priced up a brand new stainless emersion heater 30 long yesturday it came out at £211.10 or for our friends over the pond $396.668 [US] A 24 one came out at £ 182.60 or $343.28 [US] Roll on the old washing machine there is a god after all !!! Mark From: philip reid [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Help with Processor Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 20:48:38 -0700 (PDT) Hi, I used a copper immersion heater element for several years with no problems, although a stainless one would be more durable. I obtained a 'mechanical boss' for the immersion heater in a local (UK) plumbers merchant which eases and improves the fit through the tank, it also makes replacement easier. Philip - Original Message From: Mark` Cookson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2006 8:47:59 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Help with Processor keith Thanks for that, you can get stainless immersion heater[element] but they are a fortune to buy brand new. I thought any list members may know of other alternatives? [ or supplys in the UK] Mark From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Help with Processor Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 12:51:09 +0900 Hi to every one, I am trying to build a processor but having difficulty in finding a heater element that is not made of copper? I am in the UK, I have been told, in Holland they make a brass emersion heater element but I can not find a supplier here in the UK. Any suggestions anybody? Mark Hi Mark Brass won't do either, neither will bronze, lead, tin and zinc. Aluminium doesn't react with biodiesel but it does react with lye so you can't use it in a processor. Stainless steel is best. Stainless steel immersion heaters definitely exist, surely obtainable in all countries. Seek and ye shall find. HTH, good luck. Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ _ Windows Live Messenger has arrived. Click here to download it for free! http://imagine-msn.com/messenger/launch80/?locale=en-gb ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ _ Windows Live Messenger has arrived. Click here to download it for free! http://imagine-msn.com/messenger/launch80/?locale=en-gb ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Help with Processor
Bob Thanks for the offered help, I am at the moment trying to make a 75 litre processor.The stainless kettle element you bought for your first processor how did you rig up a therostat to it was it quite easy? P-S I am in Lancs are you any where near? Regards Mark From: Bob Carr [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Help with Processor Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 17:22:47 +0100 Hi Mark, How big is your processor? I made my first 15 litre processor using a stainless kettle element, bought from a local electical store for just £4.50. It is still working fine after a year. I am now using a 150 litre processor that is heated by hot water from a home made gas boiler. The long term plan is to convert the boiler to run on a mixture of glycerol and bio heating oil, but I am not there yet. If you need help sourcing stuff locally, I will help wherever I can Regards Bob - Original Message - From: Mark` Cookson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2006 8:47 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Help with Processor keith Thanks for that, you can get stainless immersion heater[element] but they are a fortune to buy brand new. I thought any list members may know of other alternatives? [ or supplys in the UK] Mark From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Help with Processor Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 12:51:09 +0900 Hi to every one, I am trying to build a processor but having difficulty in finding a heater element that is not made of copper? I am in the UK, I have been told, in Holland they make a brass emersion heater element but I can not find a supplier here in the UK. Any suggestions anybody? Mark Hi Mark Brass won't do either, neither will bronze, lead, tin and zinc. Aluminium doesn't react with biodiesel but it does react with lye so you can't use it in a processor. Stainless steel is best. Stainless steel immersion heaters definitely exist, surely obtainable in all countries. Seek and ye shall find. HTH, good luck. Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ _ Windows LiveT Messenger has arrived. Click here to download it for free! http://imagine-msn.com/messenger/launch80/?locale=en-gb ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ _ Be the first to hear what's new at MSN - sign up to our free newsletters! http://www.msn.co.uk/newsletters ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] The Blame Game
Er, if I could convince you to hone in on the correct usage of persuade you'd be doing the world a service. As for your question, soccer moms in SUVs might not know the difference nor care, but your mere common or garden road miles that you use up every time you go driving are not original miles, they get re-used every time another car goes past. Authentic original miles are only to be found where no car has ventured before. I don't think a 1957 Chevy is cut out to have 60,000 original miles under its belt and still run good. I bet you put sawdust in the gearbox too. Are you the guy who sold an Edsel to Richard Nixon? Interesting look-ups in the 2-vol OED, IIRC (mine was eaten by termites, sob): - barbarian - prestigious Best Keith Ha! I think it would be a hoot. Next show: A guide to improper pronunciation: Realtor - usually pronounced reLAtor. Correct: REELter. Quiz question: What's the difference between original miles and miles as in: 1957 Chevy, 60,000 original miles. Btw, it runs good. Not well, good. MK DuPree wrote: LOL...let me know when you want to really gear up this show...maybe the Say It Wrong Show -- A Guide To Improper Word Usage with Miss Grundy and Rufus. For any two subscribers who will each donate the full set of OED, each will receive the two volume set in return. Just in case anyone is feeling more sedentary and needs motivation honing their homing in skills. Rufus - Original Message - From: Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2006 7:24 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The Blame Game I have the bigger two volume OED. I've always wanted the full set. I'm going to start an Internet radio program called say it wrong - a guide to improper word usage. Take a different tact - tack It's a mute point - moot. Irregardless - regardless. Hone in on - home in on. The list goes on... -Miss Grundy MK DuPree wrote: LOL...ty...OED eh? I have the two volume microprint version. Have used it more for etymology than everyday definition. Kind of cumbersome pulling one or the other volume out of the jacket and then having to use a magnifying glass to read what I'm after. I guess not only am I insufferable, I'm lazy. Ah well...maybe using the OED would help me home in on my sedentary tendencies and hone my understanding of context so that I might not be so ready to doubt another pedant's ability to home in on writing that obviously needs to be better honed. - Original Message - From: Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 6:57 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The Blame Game Insufferable pedants unite! Webster's dictionary just means...it's called Webster's. Big whoop! I can print on up and call it Webster's. The OED is the only dictionary worth using, IMHO. You could say Cheney honed his argument. You couldn't say he honed in on his argument. MK DuPree wrote: Aint even gonna touch references to my dic...otherwise, ok, I give, kind of...what about dropping the words in on? There's a case for Cheney having honed his present message to mask the real message his ilk have homed in on during the present and past administrations. Rufus - Original Message - From: Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 3:18 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The Blame Game 1. That's not a real dictionary. 2. It wasn't honed as in he honed his argument, it was honed in. He meant homed in on. -Miss Grundy MK DuPree wrote: Well...whether he homed or honed it, according to this article Cheney has been focusing on a message that betrays the historical work of his party, or at least certain members of his party. Thanks Keith. Now, according to my _Merriam-Webster's Collegiate Dictionary, Eleventh Edition_: honed: to make more acute, intense, or effective; and homed: to proceed or direct attention toward an objective. Given the context in which the word in the article is used, I vote for honed. However, from the article it appears the present administration has honed its' public policy abilities and homed in hard on my country's pocketbook for spending on stuff that benefits a few at the expense of
Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials as Evidence)
Jason Katie, We have a well. We are surrounded by farm (pasture) land. I guess I take good water for granted. It is, after all, a basic need. I fish in the reservoirs that provide New York City with its drinking water. It is in the beautiful Catskill Mts of New York State. It's ironic that the flooding of valleys to produce clean drinking water for people in a city almost 100 miles away resulted in the release of Mercury from the rotting vegetation so that "The water is good to drink" they say, but you should limit the amount of fish you eat ... onemeal of trout per week; one of smallmouth bass per month. Pregnant woman even less. Tom - Original Message - From: Jason Katie To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 6:56 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials as Evidence) my family grew up on one well. my grandfather owns all the land around him and us, and we (4 households) are all connected to the same well and pump, and it is straight out of the bedrock, some of the sweetest, clearest, coldest, water i have ever drank, or will probably ever find. the only bad thing about it is the sulfur smell- we could never talk grandpa into buying a pressure tank with a spoon in it. i dont knowhow much the water actually helped, but as a kid i was only ever sick aboutonce a year (flu season, and no, the fluvaccine didnt help any, so i never bothered after the first one). JasonICQ#: 154998177MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: MK DuPree To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 4:00 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness (WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials as Evidence) Hi Tom...thanks for this post and especially your concern. I probably shouldn't have said anything. We've owned a distiller for years and have always enjoyed how the distilled water seems tomake more pronounced the flavors of coffee, frozen oranje juice, various broths, stews, etc etc, and oh yeah, one of my favorites--scotch (single malt...Glen Moray, 12 yearneat...two fingers...in the eveningdelicious). Never worry about (or taste) anythingbetween the water and our drink.But then I've always wondered about any leaching of stuff from my body, especially the bad stuff, because lord knows I dump enough vitamins and minerals in there to replace many times over whatever of the good stuff might be leached. Of course, I walk daily, getting ready to go out now in fact and keep myself in shape in part that way. I don't know, annual visits to my traditional westernized doc keep producing "healthy" results, except I have struggled with cholesterol until the last exam which was preceded by flax seed, soy milk, and increased exercise for several months prior to the exam and my cholesterol(the bad stuff) was way down, although the good stuff wasn'thigh enough for me, but my doc said it was okay. Anyway,I'm going intoall this totry andround outa big picture.I know our water is a major piece of our overall health picture andmy choices dictatedistilled. I don't trust the bottled water stuff. I sure as heck don't trust the tap water.Yourspeaker's artificially softened water claims don't surprise me at all. I suppose I couldgo out and buyreverse osmosis which just sounds too weird to me. In the end, I suppose I have tonod to the "Bob" in me and request the data, the research, the unequivocal science that says, hey buddy, distilled bad. Even then, like I've said up front, I'd still be closed minded on this. Something about distilled water is just too simple, too clean, too clear, and really refreshing. But Tom, again, I mean this when I say it, thank you, thank youfor your concern. It means everything to me. I hope you believe me. Mike DuPree - Original Message - From: Thomas Kelly To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 1:14 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness (Was HypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials as Evidence) Mike, You wrote: "Plenty of other stuffto be drinking, likeuh, waterdistilled of course...I know I know minerals etc etc...hey...distilledperiod..." Please, no. This goes back many years, butI heard a presentation by a Dr. Shapiro of the Univ. of Pittsburgh School of Public Health in which he suggested that softened, or worse, distilled water increases one's risk of cardiovascular disease. His conclusion was based on studies of communities that "softened" their water
Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Americans under control.
He's not the only one, it's becoming a loud and swelling chorus. There's something of a motherlode of such clear-sighted stuff been posted here over the last five years or so, makes for a hell of a good browse. More Charles Sullivan (some posted here before): http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article10387.htm America's Longest War By Charles Sullivan 09/25/05 ICH http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article10448.htm Manipulating the Public Mind By Charles Sullivan 09/29/05 ICH We are witnessing a bizarre psychic phenomenon that is the physical and spiritual equivalent of mass hypnosis. We seem almost incapable of waking ourselves up; or looking away from the shining pendant that swings before our glazed, vacuous eyes. Better not drink the kool aid. http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article10483.htm Christianity and the Demise of America By Charles Sullivan 10/01/05 ICH http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article11972.htm The Making of a Zombie Culture By Charles Sullivan 02/17/06 ICH http://informationclearinghouse.info/article12394.htm To bleed and to die in the dust By Charles Sullivan 03/18/06 America will know no peace at home or abroad until we resolve the slavery issue. We live in a class society in which the rich prey upon and subjugate the poor of this and all nations. There are but two classes-rich and poor, employers and workers; rulers and servants. Do not take my word for it. Look around you. Weigh the evidence and make up your own mind. Best Keith AND I QUOTE: ...any government whose operation is not transparent is a house of cards that cannot long stand. It is not worthy of our respect or our allegiance. and quote... I do not believe that this issue can be resolved at the polls. It is going to require massive citizen involvement, serious economic disruption, boycotts, general strikes, and acts of civil disobedience over a long period of time. We must throw our bodies on to the gears and levers of the machine and make it stop. The war makers must be driven from office, regardless of their political stripes. I doubt whether they will leave of their own accord. The same thing must occur not only in the U.S. but around the world. and quote... On the other hand, we have superior numbers; well over 99.9% of the population. Ours is a just cause, theirs is not. We are builders; they are destroyers. But we must be willing to struggle; we must organize and mobilize, and forge a viable global solidarity movement. We must be willing to stand up for our beliefs and to fight for them. It may be necessary for some of us to sacrifice our freedoms and our lives. Otherwise we will end up with a global Plutocracy run by corporations and distinguished by two classes: master and slave. THANKYOU and GOODNIGHT! i am going to have to agree with Mr. Sulivan to the utmost reaches of anyone's ability. total freedom is for children. all total freedom means is that one doesnt have to worry about hurting one's Poor Wittle Head trying to make a decision- it will be made for you, prepared nicely with some lemon sauce, and RAMMED DOWN YOUR NECK!!! liberty is the only true answer. make your own decisions. Jason ICQ#: 154998177 MSN: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]D. Mindock To: mailto:Undisclosed-Recipient:;Undisclosed-Recipient:; Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2006 3:53 AM Subject: [Biofuel] Fw: Americans under control. Wow, I think this guy, Charles Sullivan, is one brave soul. He tells the truth in a simple way. There's nothing the roaches hate more than the light of truth shining on them. Very worthwhile article! Peace with justice, D. Mindock This article covers Americans being ruled under Capitalism, Globalism, and corporate greed; our democracy is more like a plutocracy, this is for ALL , everyone to read. Your future and your children's and the world should be knowledgeable of these areas of business that control your life. Just consider this and look at what has, and is happening, under the New World Order. See: http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article15000.htmFighting Capitalism One Essay at a Time http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article15000.htmhttp://www .informationclearinghouse.info/article15000.htm Charles Sullivan rarely disappoints me. This interview shows just how much on the ball he is. Steve ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Diwali - Festival of Lights
Best wishes for a happy Diwali to our Hindu list members and their families and loved ones. Namaste Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] The Blame Game
Funny you should come up with that take on original miles - I once argued the exact same thing! Keith Addison wrote: Er, if I could convince you to hone in on the correct usage of persuade you'd be doing the world a service. As for your question, soccer moms in SUVs might not know the difference nor care, but your mere common or garden road miles that you use up every time you go driving are not original miles, they get re-used every time another car goes past. Authentic original miles are only to be found where no car has ventured before. I don't think a 1957 Chevy is cut out to have 60,000 original miles under its belt and still run good. I bet you put sawdust in the gearbox too. Are you the guy who sold an Edsel to Richard Nixon? Interesting look-ups in the 2-vol OED, IIRC (mine was eaten by termites, sob): - barbarian - prestigious Best Keith Ha! I think it would be a hoot. Next show: A guide to improper pronunciation: Realtor - usually pronounced reLAtor. Correct: REELter. Quiz question: What's the difference between original miles and miles as in: 1957 Chevy, 60,000 original miles. Btw, it runs good. Not well, good. MK DuPree wrote: LOL...let me know when you want to really gear up this show...maybe the Say It Wrong Show -- A Guide To Improper Word Usage with Miss Grundy and Rufus. For any two subscribers who will each donate the full set of OED, each will receive the two volume set in return. Just in case anyone is feeling more sedentary and needs motivation honing their homing in skills. Rufus - Original Message - From: Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2006 7:24 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The Blame Game I have the bigger two volume OED. I've always wanted the full set. I'm going to start an Internet radio program called say it wrong - a guide to improper word usage. Take a different tact - tack It's a mute point - moot. Irregardless - regardless. Hone in on - home in on. The list goes on... -Miss Grundy MK DuPree wrote: LOL...ty...OED eh? I have the two volume microprint version. Have used it more for etymology than everyday definition. Kind of cumbersome pulling one or the other volume out of the jacket and then having to use a magnifying glass to read what I'm after. I guess not only am I insufferable, I'm lazy. Ah well...maybe using the OED would help me home in on my sedentary tendencies and hone my understanding of context so that I might not be so ready to doubt another pedant's ability to home in on writing that obviously needs to be better honed. - Original Message - From: Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 6:57 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The Blame Game Insufferable pedants unite! Webster's dictionary just means...it's called Webster's. Big whoop! I can print on up and call it Webster's. The OED is the only dictionary worth using, IMHO. You could say Cheney honed his argument. You couldn't say he honed in on his argument. MK DuPree wrote: Aint even gonna touch references to my dic...otherwise, ok, I give, kind of...what about dropping the words in on? There's a case for Cheney having honed his present message to mask the real message his ilk have homed in on during the present and past administrations. Rufus - Original Message - From: Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 3:18 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The Blame Game 1. That's not a real dictionary. 2. It wasn't honed as in he honed his argument, it was honed in. He meant homed in on. -Miss Grundy MK DuPree wrote: Well...whether he homed or honed it, according to this article Cheney has been focusing on a message that betrays the historical work of his party, or at least certain members of his party. Thanks Keith. Now, according to my _Merriam-Webster's Collegiate Dictionary, Eleventh Edition_: honed: to make more acute, intense, or effective; and homed: to proceed or direct attention toward an objective. Given the context in which the word in the article is used, I vote for honed.
[Biofuel] was..was...Major Problems Of Surviving Peak Oil
Thanks so much Darryl for giving Mark Thompson a reality check, there are still far too many that think like him and who don't have a clue how serious the situation is becoming. Sad. regards tallex ---Original Message--- From: MK DuPree [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Major Problems Of Surviving Peak Oil Sent: 20 Oct '06 12:07 See Stephen Leeb's The Coming Economic Collapse: How You Can Thrive When Oil Costs $200 a Barrel. Leeb would have us buying stocks in various companies because that's his business. The points he makes about why the price of oil must rise to levels far beyond we know today are my reason for directing our attention to the book. It really does come down to a massive population growing exponentially and an economic model promoted by the USA. Bottom line is, we're screwed, at least as far as the world as we've known it run on oil is concerned. Maybe all the JTF List could put our money, talents, and lives together on some remote island or somewhere in New Zealand and start something that might survive through the coming chaos and become a beacon of hope to the world. Use the JTF Credo as our basis for community life. I'm serious! What, aint gonna happen??? Ah well, to unquote something the bard didn't say, all's not well that doesn't end well. Ah well... Mike DuPree - Original Message - From: [LINK: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [LINK: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2006 9:59 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Major Problems Of Surviving Peak Oil Thompson, Mark L. (PNB RD) wrote: What is all this Peak Oil end of the world garbage. Oil is a finite resource. All that remains to debate is when we will run out (and what the definition of that is). I think things get ugly once core demand exceeds production on a world scale. Personally, I expect that within my lifetime. I think affordability will be a factor long before oil is exhausted in a technical sense. I trust you have read Deffeyes, Hubbert, ASPO, Simmons, etc. and have evidence that debunks them. We have many decades if not 100+ years of conventional oil left. Emmm, actually North America has about 5 years of conventional oil left, if it were not for imports. (6 if you include ANWR.) Does your forecast allow for increasing and accelerating rates of consumption year over year? Or does it assume flat consumption into the future, like the optimistic government forecasts? We have huge amounts of Tar Sands (1.7 Trillion barrels) to exploit. Actually, I doubt we can afford to do that. The groundwater and natural gas consumed in that processing will run out first. If we use oil from the oil sands to make more oil from the oil sands, my understanding is that this is a losing proposition on an EROEI basis based on the exising process and facilities (from oil sand to refined consumer product). We have potential 1000's of years worth of Methane-Hydrates available. For which we currently do not have a viable technology in place as yet to harvest them. The implications of releasing that much methane into the environment (leakage, losses, accidents), or even the carbon dioxide resulting from using it do not bode well for habitability of the planet for humans in the long term. Perhaps you plan to use this methane to support the production of oil from the oil sands. Estimated to be greater than twice the world total of oil. We have almost limitless Nuclear energy potential through the use of Breeder, Light water and Heavy water reactors. And no solutions in place on how to deal with the spent fuel on a permanent basis, well, other than putting them into weapons, be they nuclear weapons, depleted uranium in artillery shells, or dirty bombs. Even France is having second thoughts about the breeder cycle. Not to mention the other - Wind - Water - Solar - BioFuels - etc. Now we're getting to sustainable solutions. All of which are up and coming. The higher energy cost go up the more pressure there will be on Alternate sources. Do you think we have enough time to implement these solutions on a mass scale before oil and natural gas shortages, even intermittent ones, are disrupting the technological infrastructure that underpins western civilization? Alberta has just put a road-block in front of further wind development in the province. The U.S. federal government is actively working against the Cape wind project. However, billions are being spent on green-washing coal. As said before Everything changes. All we need to do is plan for then and adapt. There are limits to adaptation. Extinction is also
[Biofuel] Fwd: Happy Halloween...
Thismay be a bit too scary for some.be sure to watch it all the way to the end...(click on link below) http://www.bluemountain.com/view.pd?i=149549234m=4772rr=zsource=bma999 Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1/min.___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Check out http://www.bisonpress.com/homestead.html
This is an interesting outlook. I wonder if he has thought about what happens when you can't work or how he plans for accidents, illness, etc. A community (such as the Amish) typically handles these costs of living. He seems to suggest more of a Hermit approach rather than a community approach. -dave Check out http://www.bisonpress.com/homestead.html be sure to scroll down Click here: http://www.bisonpress.com/homestead.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] was..Check out http://www.bisonpress.com/homestead.html
Yes, it does sound like kind of a hermitish? existence. It doesn't seem that he has given much thought to all the people that would be trampling into his wilderness paradise in the event of a catastrophe either. Interesting perspective though. regards tallex ---Original Message--- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Check out http://www.bisonpress.com/homestead.html Sent: 20 Oct '06 18:08 This is an interesting outlook. I wonder if he has thought about what happens when you can't work or how he plans for accidents, illness, etc. A community (such as the Amish) typically handles these costs of living. He seems to suggest more of a Hermit approach rather than a community approach. -dave Check out http://www.bisonpress.com/homestead.html be sure to scroll down Click here: http://www.bisonpress.com/homestead.html Get your daily alternative energy news Alternate Energy Resource Network 1000+ news sources-resources updated daily http://www.alternate-energy.net Next Generation Grid http://groups.yahoo.com/group/next_generation_grid/ Alternative Energy Politics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Alternative_Energy_Politics/ Earth_Rescue_International http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Earth_Rescue_International/ Tomorrow-energy http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tomorrow-energy/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Fwd: Happy Halloween...
Kirk McLoren wrote: Thismay be a bit too scary for some.be sure to watch it all the way to the end...(click on link below) It's no more frightening that who we've got now. I thought Elizabeth Dole might have made a good president, but she's probably too old now. robert luis rabello "The Edge of Justice" Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] The vegetable industrial complex
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/15/magazine/15wwln_lede.html?emex=1161230400en=fb88bad2f039ed21ei=5087%0A October 15, 2006 The Way We Live Now The Vegetable-Industrial Complex By MICHAEL POLLAN Soon after the news broke last month that nearly 200 Americans in 26 states had been sickened by eating packaged spinach contaminated with E. coli, I received a rather coldblooded e-mail message from a friend in the food business. I have instructed my broker to purchase a million shares of RadSafe, he wrote, explaining that RadSafe is a leading manufacturer of food-irradiation technology. It turned out my friend was joking, but even so, his reasoning was impeccable. If bagged salad greens are vulnerable to bacterial contamination on such a scale, industry and government would very soon come looking for a technological fix; any day now, calls to irradiate the entire food supply will be on a great many official lips. That's exactly what happened a few years ago when we learned that E. coli from cattle feces was winding up in American hamburgers. Rather than clean up the kill floor and the feedlot diet, some meat processors simply started nuking the meat — sterilizing the manure, in other words, rather than removing it from our food. Why? Because it's easier to find a technological fix than to address the root cause of such a problem. This has always been the genius of industrial capitalism — to take its failings and turn them into exciting new business opportunities. We can also expect to hear calls for more regulation and inspection of the produce industry. Already, watchdogs like the Center for Science in the Public Interest have proposed that the government impose the sort of regulatory regime it imposes on the meat industry — something along the lines of the Hazard Analysis and Critical Control Point system (Haccp, pronounced HASS-ip) developed in response to the E. coli contamination of beef. At the moment, vegetable growers and packers are virtually unregulated. Farmers can do pretty much as they please, Carol Tucker Foreman, director of the Food Policy Institute at the Consumer Federation of America, said recently, as long as they don't make anyone sick. This sounds like an alarming lapse in governmental oversight until you realize there has never before been much reason to worry about food safety on farms. But these days, the way we farm and the way we process our food, both of which have been industrialized and centralized over the last few decades, are endangering our health. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention estimate that our food supply now sickens 76 million Americans every year, putting more than 300,000 of them in the hospital, and killing 5,000. The lethal strain of E. coli known as 0157:H7, responsible for this latest outbreak of food poisoning, was unknown before 1982; it is believed to have evolved in the gut of feedlot cattle. These are animals that stand around in their manure all day long, eating a diet of grain that happens to turn a cow's rumen into an ideal habitat for E. coli 0157:H7. (The bug can't survive long in cattle living on grass.) Industrial animal agriculture produces more than a billion tons of manure every year, manure that, besides being full of nasty microbes like E. coli 0157:H7 (not to mention high concentrations of the pharmaceuticals animals must receive so they can tolerate the feedlot lifestyle), often ends up in places it shouldn't be, rather than in pastures, where it would not only be harmless but also actually do some good. To think of animal manure as pollution rather than fertility is a relatively new (and industrial) idea. Wendell Berry once wrote that when we took animals off farms and put them onto feedlots, we had, in effect, taken an old solution — the one where crops feed animals and animals' waste feeds crops — and neatly divided it into two new problems: a fertility problem on the farm, and a pollution problem on the feedlot. Rather than return to that elegant solution, however, industrial agriculture came up with a technological fix for the first problem — chemical fertilizers on the farm. As yet, there is no good fix for the second problem, unless you count irradiation and Haccp plans and overcooking your burgers and, now, staying away from spinach. All of these solutions treat E. coli 0157:H7 as an unavoidable fact of life rather than what it is: a fact of industrial agriculture. But if industrial farming gave us this bug, it is industrial eating that has spread it far and wide. We don't yet know exactly what happened in the case of the spinach washed and packed by Natural Selection Foods, whether it was contaminated in the field or in the processing plant or if perhaps the sealed bags made a trivial contamination worse. But we do know that a great deal of spinach from a great many fields gets mixed together in the water at that plant, giving microbes from a single field an opportunity to contaminate a vast amount of food. The plant
Re: [Biofuel] Fw: FDA is set to approve milk, meat from cloned animals
As far as I know cloning hasn't reached the point, where the clone appears at a ready to slaughter size. I would suppose a clone grown from birth to slaughter size on grass, would qualify as grass feed beef. A mass of muscle tissue grown in a petri dish may not. Personally I have fewer objections to cloning food, than I do for genetic engineering. I'm not so sure if I would halt the tinkering, but do feel it should be slowed to the point where irreversible consequences are minimized as much as passable. I do remain unconvinced this technology is now need to prevent the starvation of my fellow citizens in the world. Doug, N0LKK Kansas USA inc. W D. Mindock wrote: I don't eat beef or pork. I wonder if chickens are going to be cloned too. It won't be long before we will have beef grown on the cellular level. Could they call it grass fed beef? It seems that technology is taking us further and further from nature. I think most of us would want to slow or even halt this tinkering with our food. Peace, D. Mindock ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Fwd: Happy Halloween...
Could be scary, but I'm not sure it's any scarier that any of the other possibilities that may emerge. Doug ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Check out http://www.bisonpress.com/homestead.html
Like most things one has to pick out what may be applicable, and useful to/in their situation. Again everything is relative. Doug, N0LKK Kansas USA inc. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Diwali - Festival of Lights
Keith, Namaste Thank you for the greetings. Diwali is a great time to be in India. RAVI KUMAR - Original Message From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Friday, October 20, 2006 11:27:58 AMSubject: [Biofuel] Diwali - Festival of Lights Best wishes for a happy Diwali to our Hindu list members and their families and loved ones.NamasteKeith___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Diwali - Festival of Lights
Thank you Keith. Please convey our Diwali Greetings andbest wishes to all list members.Best regards.Om DattKeith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Best wishes for a happy Diwali to our Hindu list members and their families and loved ones.NamasteKeith___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Find out what India is talking about on - Yahoo! Answers India Send FREE SMS to your friend's mobile from Yahoo! Messenger Version 8. Get it NOW___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] was..was...Major Problems Of Surviving Peak Oil - Requesting Sources
Mark - Could you please state your sources for the information supplied below in your e-mail?Tallex - I agree, but would really appreciate where this information is coming from.Thanks, Tony MarzolinoAltEnergyNetwork [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks so much Darryl for giving Mark Thompson a reality check,there are still far too many that think like him and who don't have a cluehow serious the situation is becoming. Sad.regardstallex ---Original Message--- From: MK DuPree Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Major Problems Of Surviving Peak Oil Sent: 20 Oct '06 12:07See Stephen Leeb's The Coming Economic Collapse: How You Can Thrive When Oil Costs $200 a Barrel. Leeb would have us buying stocks in various companies because that's his business. The points he makes about why the price of oil must rise to levels far beyond we know today are my reason for directing our attention to the book. It really does come down to a massive population growing exponentially and an economic model promoted by the USA. Bottom line is, we're screwed, at least as far as the world as we've known it run on oil is concerned. Maybe all the JTF List could put our money, talents, and lives together on some remote island or somewhere in New Zealand and start something that might survive through the coming chaos and become a beacon of hope to the world. Use the JTF Credo as our basis for community life. I'm serious! What, aint gonna happen??? Ah well, to unquote something the bard didn't say, all's not well that doesn't end well. Ah well... Mike DuPree - Original Message -From: [LINK: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: [LINK: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Thursday, October 19, 2006 9:59 PMSubject: Re: [Biofuel] Major Problems Of Surviving Peak Oil Thompson, Mark L. (PNB RD) wrote: What is all this "Peak Oil" end of the world garbage. Oil is a finite resource. All that remains to debate is when we will "run out" (and what the definition of that is). I think things get ugly once core demand exceeds production on a world scale. Personally, I expect that within my lifetime. I think affordability will be a factor long before oil is exhausted in a technical sense. I trust you have read Deffeyes, Hubbert, ASPO, Simmons, etc. and have evidence that debunks them. We have many decades if not 100+ years of conventional oil left. Emmm, actually North America has about 5 years of conventional oil left, if it were not for imports. (6 if you include ANWR.) Does your forecast allow for increasing and accelerating rates of consumption year over year? Or does it assume flat consumption into the future, like the optimistic government forecasts? We have huge amounts of Tar Sands (1.7 Trillion barrels) to exploit. Actually, I doubt we can afford to do that. The groundwater and natural gas consumed in that processing will run out first. If we use oil from the oil sands to make more oil from the oil sands, my understanding is that this is a losing proposition on an EROEI basis based on the exising process and facilities (from oil sand to refined consumer product). We have potential 1000's of years worth of Methane-Hydrates available. For which we currently do not have a viable technology in place as yet to harvest them. The implications of releasing that much methane into the environment (leakage, losses, accidents), or even the carbon dioxide resulting from using it do not bode well for habitability of the planet for humans in the long term. Perhaps you plan to use this methane to support the production of oil from the oil sands. Estimated to be greater than twice the world total of oil. We have almost limitless Nuclear energy potential through the use of Breeder, Light water and Heavy water reactors. And no solutions in place on how to deal with the spent fuel on a permanent basis, well, other than putting them into weapons, be they nuclear weapons, depleted uranium in artillery shells, or dirty bombs. Even France is having second thoughts about the breeder cycle. Not to mention the other - Wind - Water - Solar - BioFuels - etc. Now we're getting to sustainable solutions. All of which are up and coming. The higher energy cost go up the more pressure there will be on "Alternate" sources. Do you think we have enough time to implement these solutions on a mass scale before oil and natural gas shortages, even intermittent ones, are disrupting the technological infrastructure that underpins western "civilization"? Alberta has just put a road-block in front of further wind development in the province. The U.S. federal government is actively working against the Cape wind project. However, billions are being spent on green-washing coal. As said
Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials as Evidence)
The mercury presumably comes from air borne sources as a result of buring coal and evaportion from other sources such as land fills in the mid-west. We as a society use elemental mercury in alot of products such as fluoresent light bulbs, and other electric devices. This contamination of fish throughout the northeast is probably not due to the mercury in the soil in the Catskils, Adirondacks, Green Mountains, White Mountains or Pocanos. - Original Message - From: Thomas Kelly [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials as Evidence) Jason Katie, We have a well. We are surrounded by farm (pasture) land. I guess I take good water for granted. It is, after all, a basic need. I fish in the reservoirs that provide New York City with its drinking water. It is in the beautiful Catskill Mts of New York State. It's ironic that the flooding of valleys to produce clean drinking water for people in a city almost 100 miles away resulted in the release of Mercury from the rotting vegetation so that The water is good to drink they say, but you should limit the amount of fish you eat ... one meal of trout per week; one of smallmouth bass per month. Pregnant woman even less. Tom - Original Message - From: Jason Katie To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 6:56 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials as Evidence) my family grew up on one well. my grandfather owns all the land around him and us, and we (4 households) are all connected to the same well and pump, and it is straight out of the bedrock, some of the sweetest, clearest, coldest, water i have ever drank, or will probably ever find. the only bad thing about it is the sulfur smell- we could never talk grandpa into buying a pressure tank with a spoon in it. i dont know how much the water actually helped, but as a kid i was only ever sick about once a year (flu season, and no, the flu vaccine didnt help any, so i never bothered after the first one). Jason ICQ#: 154998177 MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: MK DuPree To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 4:00 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness (WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials as Evidence) Hi Tom...thanks for this post and especially your concern. I probably shouldn't have said anything. We've owned a distiller for years and have always enjoyed how the distilled water seems to make more pronounced the flavors of coffee, frozen oranje juice, various broths, stews, etc etc, and oh yeah, one of my favorites--scotch (single malt...Glen Moray, 12 yearneat...two fingers...in the eveningdelicious). Never worry about (or taste) anything between the water and our drink. But then I've always wondered about any leaching of stuff from my body, especially the bad stuff, because lord knows I dump enough vitamins and minerals in there to replace many times over whatever of the good stuff might be leached. Of course, I walk daily, getting ready to go out now in fact and keep myself in shape in part that way. I don't know, annual visits to my traditional westernized doc keep producing healthy results, except I have struggled with cholesterol until the last exam which was preceded by flax seed, soy milk, and increased exercise for several months prior to the exam and my cholesterol (the bad stuff) was way down, although the good stuff wasn't high enough for me, but my doc said it was okay. Anyway, I'm going into all this to try and round out a big picture. I know our water is a major piece of our overall health picture and my choices dictate distilled. I don't trust the bottled water stuff. I sure as heck don't trust the tap water. Your speaker's artificially softened water claims don't surprise me at all. I suppose I could go out and buy reverse osmosis which just sounds too weird to me. In the end, I suppose I have to nod to the Bob in me and request the data, the research, the unequivocal science that says, hey buddy, distilled bad. Even then, like I've said up front, I'd still be closed minded on this. Something about distilled water is just too simple, too clean, too clear, and really refreshing. But Tom, again, I mean this when I say it, thank you, thank you for your concern. It means everything to me. I hope you believe me. Mike DuPree - Original Message - From: Thomas Kelly To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 1:14 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness (Was HypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials as Evidence) Mike, You wrote:
[Biofuel] Another GE rice from Bayer contaminates EU food supplies
19 OCTOBER 2006 Another GE rice from Bayer contaminates EU food supplies Greenpeace calls for EU strategy to prevent food and feed contamination with GMOs BRUSSELS News that French authorities have detected another variety of illegal genetically engineered (GE) rice contained in US imports to the EU Äì the third illegal GE rice scandal in Europe in two months Äì should prompt urgent action on behalf of regulatory authorities, Greenpeace said today. Tests in France found US rice containing a GMO called Liberty Link 62 (LL62), which is not approved in Europe (1). This comes on top of test results from several EU countries since August showing that US rice on sale in Europe is contaminated with another unauthorised GE rice variety, LL601. For the second time, the source of the contamination is Bayer Cropscience. Greenpeace believes that Bayer should be held accountable for its negligence, as it is clearly incapable of controlling contamination of rice with its genetically engineered varieties. In the interests of the global rice supply, Bayer should withdraw from all research, field trials and applications for GE rice globally. The European Commission on Thursday announced that it would seek member state approval for compulsory tests on all US long-grain rice imports, to prove the absence of LL rice varieties. The Commission should be congratulated for not giving in to US demands to weaken import testing standards. The Commission's proposal will be examined on Monday by a committee of EU food safety experts. On the same day, EU environment ministers may address the question of how to avoid contamination of the food chain with illegal GMOs. Greenpeace is urging ministers to develop a strategy to prevent further contamination by GE products: any country which grows GMOs for commercial or experimental use should provide the EU and member states with a full list of these crops, and reliable testing methods for each of them. GE crop-growing countries should have to provide a certificate to accompany imports to the EU proving that they are not contaminated with crops that have not been approved in Europe. In the absence of reliable certification and testing systems, the EU should prohibit imports of products which may have been contaminated. Greenpeace also expressed concern that the EU has still not agreed on emergency measures regarding the import of illegal Bt63 rice from China, identified by testing on behalf of Greenpeace and Friends of the Earth six weeks ago, and confirmed by official tests in Germany, France and Austria. While the EU imposed emergency measures in response to news of the US rice contamination within five days of the notification, no such steps have been taken on Bt63, despite its potential health risks (2). NOTES TO EDITOR (1) LL62 rice is legal in the United States (since 2000) and Canada, but is not authorised anywhere else in the world. LL601 is not legal anywhere. Neither is Bt63, detected in Chinese rice products on sale in Europe. (2) For further information on the Chinese GE rice contamination, see http://www.greenpeace.org/international/press/reports/IllegalChinaGEri ce CONTACT Martina Holbach, Greenpeace GMO campaigner, +32 (0)2 274 1906 Katharine Mill, Greenpeace European Unit media officer, +32 (0)2 274 1903 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Bad News
We got a break in the weather today, and I managed to schedule all of my clients for the morning, so I took my son to the auction house to pick up a load of barn litter to compost for the garden. However, they've cleaned out the back end of the property with a loader and nearly ALL the barn litter is gone. There is one lonely pile left, but it's in the midst of a mud flat. I tried to get in there, but it's been too rainy lately and the ground is too soft. I made it to the pile, but figured that if I loaded my truck the back end would become too heavy and I'd sink to the axles in the muck . . . So, I drove over to Yarrow. There's a beautiful, elderly woman there who raises a family of horses and she gives away their manure in black, plastic bags. She laughed when I said I wanted to fill the back of my truck, and when I told her I'd need five or six loads, she asked: "Just how big a garden do you have?" Now, I don't know how well horse manure will compost over the winter. I don't like the fact that it comes in baseball-sized clumps either, as it will be more difficult to distribute over the garden. Has anyone in this forum worked with horse manure before? Does anyone have suggestions for me? Thanks in advance! robert luis rabello "The Edge of Justice" Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Bad News
A horses digestion is less efficient than a ruminant. It is a richer manure than cows as the result. Kirkrobert and benita rabello [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We got a break in the weather today, and I managed to schedule all of my clients for the morning, so I took my son to the auction house to pick up a load of barn litter to compost for the garden. However, they've cleaned out the back end of the property with a loader and nearly ALL the barn litter is gone. There is one lonely pile left, but it's in the midst of a mud flat. I tried to get in there, but it's been too rainy lately and the ground is too soft. I made it to the pile, but figured that if I loaded my truck the back end would become too heavy and I'd sink to the axles in the muck . . . So, I drove over to Yarrow. There's a beautiful, elderly woman there who raises a family of horses and she gives away their manure in black, plastic bags. She laughed when I said I wanted to fill the back of my truck, and when I told her I'd need five or six loads, she asked: "Just how big a garden do you have?" Now, I don't know how well horse manure will compost over the winter. I don't like the fact that it comes in baseball-sized clumps either, as it will be more difficult to distribute over the garden. Has anyone in this forum worked with horse manure before? Does anyone have suggestions for me? Thanks in advance! robert luis rabello "The Edge of Justice" Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.caRanger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min. Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less.___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Bad News
Kirk McLoren wrote: A horses digestion is less efficient than a ruminant. It is a richer manure than cows as the result. I'd heard that horses do not have the same kind of digestive tract, but I wouldn't have thought that would make BETTER manure for a garden. Any suggestions about how I should compost it? Should I just dump it in a big pile, or spread it out and simply let it decompose over the winter? robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Bad News
Just my observation .. spread it out. I work with animals and do my duty by picking up doggie poop and scooping cat litter .. I've avoided mucking out barns with a very strong NO I WON'T .. but I do have friends who have horses. One friend has 3 horses and some chickens .. because chickens just love things like larvae and flies lay eggs in manure .. chickens love manure .. and chickens do keep down the flies and the bonus is .. you get eggs. Her major complaint is that cleaning up the manure in the paddock, once the chickens have gotten at it requires a rake instead of a shovel .. but just my observation .. it appears to dry out very quickly and is more easily spread able than the manure from the other farms I frequent. Mary Lynn Rev. Mary Lynn Schmidt, Ordained Minister ONE SPIRIT ONE HEART TTouch . Reiki . Pet Loss Grief Counseling . Animal Behavior Modification . Shamanic Spiritual Travel . Behavior Problems . Psionic Energy Practitioner . Radionics . Herbs . Dowsing . Nutrition . Homeopathy . Polarity . The Animal Connection Healing Modalities http://members.tripod.com/~MLSchmidt/ http://allcreatureconnections.org From: robert and benita rabello [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Bad News Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 19:47:55 -0700 Kirk McLoren wrote: A horses digestion is less efficient than a ruminant. It is a richer manure than cows as the result. I'd heard that horses do not have the same kind of digestive tract, but I wouldn't have thought that would make BETTER manure for a garden. Any suggestions about how I should compost it? Should I just dump it in a big pile, or spread it out and simply let it decompose over the winter? robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Bad News
Marylynn Schmidt wrote: Just my observation .. spread it out. You live down south, right? One friend has 3 horses and some chickens .. because chickens just love things like larvae and flies lay eggs in manure .. chickens love manure .. and chickens do keep down the flies and the bonus is .. you get eggs. Ah, but I live in a subdivision. Also, with all of the bird flu paranoia going around, we can't have poultry without all of the biohazard nonsense! (It's a sad time to be alive, in some ways . . . ) Her major complaint is that cleaning up the manure in the paddock, once the chickens have gotten at it requires a rake instead of a shovel .. but just my observation .. it appears to dry out very quickly and is more easily spread able than the manure from the other farms I frequent. It rains a LOT up here. The manure comes in clumps, and I'm worried that it won't dry out or compost properly. Also, unlike barn litter from the auction house, this stuff smells rather unpleasant . . . I'll begin spreading on Sunday morning when everyone else is in church. Maybe they won't notice!!! robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Bad News
Actually, I live and work in New Jersey .. A neighbor across the street had a chicken as a pet .. it has now died of old age what ever that is?? She has great flower beds and you could (still can) see her outside most tolerable weather days .. she would be digging in a bed with her barrel on wheels and when she finished in one bed she would roll her barrel across the lawn to another bed .. and this chicken would come running after her. Absolutely just loved it. I think if anyone had complained their life wouldn't have been worth much in this neighborhood .. much to much joy in watching the whole thing .. and we did .. and this chicken gave one egg a day which always went to another woman across the street .. a couple of doors up from me. Mary Lynn Rev. Mary Lynn Schmidt, Ordained Minister ONE SPIRIT ONE HEART TTouch . Reiki . Pet Loss Grief Counseling . Animal Behavior Modification . Shamanic Spiritual Travel . Behavior Problems . Psionic Energy Practitioner . Radionics . Herbs . Dowsing . Nutrition . Homeopathy . Polarity . The Animal Connection Healing Modalities http://members.tripod.com/~MLSchmidt/ http://allcreatureconnections.org From: robert and benita rabello [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Bad News Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 20:19:37 -0700 Marylynn Schmidt wrote: Just my observation .. spread it out. You live down south, right? One friend has 3 horses and some chickens .. because chickens just love things like larvae and flies lay eggs in manure .. chickens love manure .. and chickens do keep down the flies and the bonus is .. you get eggs. Ah, but I live in a subdivision. Also, with all of the bird flu paranoia going around, we can't have poultry without all of the biohazard nonsense! (It's a sad time to be alive, in some ways . . . ) Her major complaint is that cleaning up the manure in the paddock, once the chickens have gotten at it requires a rake instead of a shovel .. but just my observation .. it appears to dry out very quickly and is more easily spread able than the manure from the other farms I frequent. It rains a LOT up here. The manure comes in clumps, and I'm worried that it won't dry out or compost properly. Also, unlike barn litter from the auction house, this stuff smells rather unpleasant . . . I'll begin spreading on Sunday morning when everyone else is in church. Maybe they won't notice!!! robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Bad News
Marylynn Schmidt wrote: Actually, I live and work in New Jersey .. So you're familiar with rain, then! A neighbor across the street had a chicken as a pet .. it has now died of old age what ever that is?? She has great flower beds and you could (still can) see her outside most tolerable weather days .. she would be digging in a bed with her barrel on wheels and when she finished in one bed she would roll her barrel across the lawn to another bed .. and this chicken would come running after her. Absolutely just loved it. I imagine! I think if anyone had complained their life wouldn't have been worth much in this neighborhood .. much to much joy in watching the whole thing .. and we did .. and this chicken gave one egg a day which always went to another woman across the street .. a couple of doors up from me. In light of the recent discussion here concerning hermitage living, your story serves as an example of how people are connected with each other, with animals, the plants we grow and the earth itself. I think that people who don't garden have removed themselves from the humbling aspects of working with soil. Personally, all the bending, lifting, raking, hoeing, shoveling, shredding and spreading helps to keep me healthy, too. A chicken for a pet? My neighbors ALREADY think I'm weird . . . robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Opps- Bad News
Bird Flu ?? Find out about Colloidal Silver or EIS as it is referred to on several lists. My personal recommendation is SilverPets .. a Yahoo groups list. Just my observation .. most people talk more openly about either their pets or other people than they will talk about themselves .. so SilverPets is a very solid information pool. I don't try to give out information when it is so easily obtainable elsewhere .. all the whats, whys, hows, and abouts will be covered .. not a real busy group but solid. Ask a question and it's answered .. not big on discussion. CS water keeps the flu away and also anything that's connected with virus, bacteria, germs, fungus .. there is a one cell within a particular size that is covered .. but covered very well. I do make my own with a purchased generator and I do use it for everything .. .. we're talking every possible infection .. that may be from bacteria, virus, germs, fungus. It works .. and I like what works. .. oh, I just remembered .. someone was concerned about a chicken who had been attacked by coyotes and had been treated with CS .. and when she found a dead chicken in her coop she assumed that it had been the one who had been attacked but discovered it was another chicken .. who was 22 years olds .. .. do I know if this is true .. why not .. considering how many years a parrot can live should we expect less from other feathered beings?? Mary Lynn Rev. Mary Lynn Schmidt, Ordained Minister ONE SPIRIT ONE HEART TTouch . Reiki . Pet Loss Grief Counseling . Animal Behavior Modification . Shamanic Spiritual Travel . Behavior Problems . Psionic Energy Practitioner . Radionics . Herbs . Dowsing . Nutrition . Homeopathy . Polarity . The Animal Connection Healing Modalities http://members.tripod.com/~MLSchmidt/ http://allcreatureconnections.org From: robert and benita rabello [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Bad News Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 20:19:37 -0700 Marylynn Schmidt wrote: Just my observation .. spread it out. You live down south, right? One friend has 3 horses and some chickens .. because chickens just love things like larvae and flies lay eggs in manure .. chickens love manure .. and chickens do keep down the flies and the bonus is .. you get eggs. Ah, but I live in a subdivision. Also, with all of the bird flu paranoia going around, we can't have poultry without all of the biohazard nonsense! (It's a sad time to be alive, in some ways . . . ) Her major complaint is that cleaning up the manure in the paddock, once the chickens have gotten at it requires a rake instead of a shovel .. but just my observation .. it appears to dry out very quickly and is more easily spread able than the manure from the other farms I frequent. It rains a LOT up here. The manure comes in clumps, and I'm worried that it won't dry out or compost properly. Also, unlike barn litter from the auction house, this stuff smells rather unpleasant . . . I'll begin spreading on Sunday morning when everyone else is in church. Maybe they won't notice!!! robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
