Re: [Biofuel] Magic Compost Enhancer

2007-07-13 Thread Doug Younker


robert and benita rabello wrote:


 Indeed!  And they need technology to separate urine?  Grief!  A 
 plastic jugg next to the toilet will do.  This saves water, and my maize 
 plants are SO much happier . . .
 
 robert luis rabello

In the event Law enforcement ever sees your urine collection, you may be 
a terrorist suspect or suspect of operating a meth lab. Urine can be 
processed to extract potassium nitrate.  Volume 5 of the Foxfire book 
series details how it was done in the old days for use in manufacturing 
black powder. apearently the urine from met users is processed to 
recover ephedrine
Doug, N0LKK
Kansas USA inc.

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Re: [Biofuel] biofuel specific?

2007-07-13 Thread Doug Younker
Another member mention filters/message rules, that's how manage the 
volume of email I elected to receive. I use the filters to direct new 
email from each list into it's own folder.  That way the email in my 
inbox are the ones that may really need my attention.  When I turn my 
attention to the specialized folders, I may elect to delete all the new 
posts there based on the subject lines or read those of interest.  After 
you get used to using the filters you will discover how to refine the 
further.
Doug, N0LKK
Kansas USA inc.


Kurt Schasker wrote:
 
 
 Biofuelers:
 I have been lurking on this list for awhile, but never actually
 participated. 
  
 I am wondering if there is some way I could filter the posts to read
 only those that directly related to biofuel issues?

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Re: [Biofuel] biofuel specific?

2007-07-13 Thread Paul S Cantrell
Kurt,
I have to agree with Mike, that it is your email account.

I would not be able to manage it in Hotmail, since it is terrible, and
has the worst user interface I've ever used for email.

I use Gmail, which works great with filters and spam protection, and
most importantly, organizes posts into conversations/threads, which
increases the time it takes to follow certain threads and ignore
others.

You could also use Mozilla's Thunderbird client if you are not on Linux.

In other words, before you change what is incoming to your mailbox,
maybe you should try a couple of different ways of receiving and
processing the information.

On 7/11/07, Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 If you switch to a linux-based email system you could use procmail to
 filter the messages for you...otherwise I am sure you can set up filters
 in Microsoft Outhouse
 er, Outlook and numerous other clients...

 -Weaver


-- 
Thanks,
PC

He's the kind of a guy who lights up a room just by flicking a switch

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Re: [Biofuel] Magic Compost Enhancer

2007-07-13 Thread Mike Weaver
Foxfire.  Used to be my bible - are they still around?

-Weaver

Doug Younker wrote:

robert and benita rabello wrote:


  

Indeed!  And they need technology to separate urine?  Grief!  A 
plastic jugg next to the toilet will do.  This saves water, and my maize 
plants are SO much happier . . .

robert luis rabello



In the event Law enforcement ever sees your urine collection, you may be 
a terrorist suspect or suspect of operating a meth lab. Urine can be 
processed to extract potassium nitrate.  Volume 5 of the Foxfire book 
series details how it was done in the old days for use in manufacturing 
black powder. apearently the urine from met users is processed to 
recover ephedrine
Doug, N0LKK
Kansas USA inc.

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[Biofuel] Organic Farming Yields as Good or Better - Study

2007-07-13 Thread Keith Addison
See:
http://journeytoforever.org/garden_organiccase.html
The case for organics

-

http://www.planetark.com/avantgo/dailynewsstory.cfm?newsid=43040

Organic Farming Yields as Good or Better - Study

WASHINGTON - Organic farming can yield up to three times as much food 
as conventional farming in developing countries, and holds its own 
against standard methods in rich countries, US researchers said on 
Tuesday.

They said their findings contradict arguments that organic farming -- 
which excludes the use of synthetic fertilizers and pesticides -- is 
not as efficient as conventional techniques.

My hope is that we can finally put a nail in the coffin of the idea 
that you can't produce enough food through organic agriculture, 
Ivette Perfecto, a professor at the University of Michigan's school 
of Natural Resources and Environment, said in a statement.

She and colleagues analyzed published studies on yields from organic 
farming. They looked at 293 different examples.

Model estimates indicate that organic methods could produce enough 
food on a global per capita basis to sustain the current human 
population, and potentially an even larger population, without 
increasing the agricultural land base, they wrote in their report, 
published in the journal Renewable Agriculture and Food Systems.

We were struck by how much food the organic farmers would produce, 
Perfecto said.

Corporate interest in agriculture and the way agriculture research 
has been conducted in land grant institutions, with a lot of 
influence by the chemical companies and pesticide companies as well 
as fertilizer companies, all have been playing an important role in 
convincing the public that you need to have these inputs to produce 
food, she added.

Story Date: 11/7/2007

Subscription:

http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayIssue?jid=RAFvolumeId=22; 
issueId=02
Cambridge Journals Online - Renewable Agriculture and Food Systems 
Vol. 22 Iss. 02
Renewable Agriculture and Food Systems

Formerly American Journal of Alternative Agriculture
Volume 22 - Issue 02

Can organic agriculture feed the world?
Catherine Badgley and Ivette Perfecto
Renewable Agriculture and Food Systems, Volume 22, Issue 02, June 
2007, pp 80-86

Published online by Cambridge University Press 04 Jul 2007

Organic agriculture and the global food supply
Catherine Badgley, Jeremy Moghtader, Eileen Quintero, Emily Zakem, M. 
Jahi Chappell, Katia Avilés-Vázquez, Andrea Samulon and Ivette 
Perfecto
Renewable Agriculture and Food Systems, Volume 22, Issue 02, June 
2007, pp 86-108
Published online by Cambridge University Press 04 Jul 2007







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Re: [Biofuel] biofuel specific?

2007-07-13 Thread Keith Addison
Another member mention filters/message rules, that's how manage the
volume of email I elected to receive. I use the filters to direct new
email from each list into it's own folder.  That way the email in my
inbox are the ones that may really need my attention.  When I turn my
attention to the specialized folders, I may elect to delete all the new
posts there based on the subject lines or read those of interest.  After
you get used to using the filters you will discover how to refine the
further.
Doug, N0LKK
Kansas USA inc.

Why delete? There's little or no advantage to it and you lose a lot.
See:
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg21651.html
Deleting - Re: [biofuel] Politics and Biofuels

Best

Keith


Kurt Schasker wrote:
 
 
  Biofuelers:
  I have been lurking on this list for awhile, but never actually
  participated.
 
  I am wondering if there is some way I could filter the posts to read
  only those that directly related to biofuel issues?


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[Biofuel] Scientists Estimate That Pesticides are Reducing Crop Yields by ONE-THIRD

2007-07-13 Thread Keith Addison
http://www.organic-center.org/science.hot.php?action=viewreport_id=99
The Organic Center :: State of Science :: Hot Science
Scientists Estimate That Pesticides are Reducing Crop Yields by 
ONE-THIRD Through Impaired Nitrogen Fixation

The Organic Center, 7/10/2007

Over the last forty years nitrogen fertilizer use has increased 
seven-fold and nearly every acre of intensively farmed, conventional 
cropland is treated with pesticides. A team of scientists explored 
the impact of pesticides and other environmental toxicants on 
symbiotic nitrogen fixation (SNF) brought about by Rhizobium bacteria 
(Fox et al., 2007). Their findings were published June 12, 2007 in 
the prestigious Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (read 
full study here).
http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/abstract/104/24/10282

The team describes the critical role played by SNF in supporting crop 
yields and environmental quality. SNF has great potential to reduce 
farm production costs - a factor of growing importance as rising 
natural gas prices push upward the cost of nitrogen fertilizers. In 
Brazil, SNF from soybeans reduces production costs an estimated $1.3 
billion per year. The research by Fox et al. (2007) explored in depth 
the signaling processes between plants and bacteria colonizing plant 
roots - processes that govern the degree of SNF and the production of 
certain phytochemicals. They focused on the ways that pesticides can 
disrupt signaling and impair the efficiency of SNF. Some 30 
pesticides are known to disrupt SNF; the most widely used pesticide 
in the United States, glyphosate (Roundup) is known to be toxic to 
nitrogen fixing bacteria.

The Conclusions?? section of the paper begins by stating:

The results of this study demonstrate that one of the environmental 
impacts of pesticides and contaminants in the soil environment is 
disruption of chemical signaling between the host plants and N-fixing 
Rhiz(obia) necessary for efficient SNF and optimal plant yield.??

Drawing on their recent work and other published studies, the team 
projected that pesticides and other contaminants are reducing plant 
yield by one-third as a result of impaired SNF. This remarkable 
conclusion suggests one mechanism, or explanation of the 
yield-enhancing benefits of well-managed, long-term organic farming 
systems.

Source: Pesticides reduce symbiotic efficiency of nitrogen-fixing 
rhizobia and host plants??

Authors: Jennifer E. Fox, Jay Gulledge, Erika Engelhaupt, Matthew E. 
Burrow, and John A. McLachlan.

Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, Vol. 104, No. 24, 
June 12, 2007.


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Re: [Biofuel] Magic Compost Enhancer

2007-07-13 Thread Zeke Yewdall

So, when I pee in my compost pile, it's a good thing

On 7/12/07, Paul S Cantrell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


They've discovered our secret!

Urine Offers Rich Phosphorus Source
http://dsc.discovery.com/news/2007/07/10/urine_pla.html?category=earth


July 10, 2007 — Recycling urine may be the answer to a looming global
shortage of phosphorus, according to an Australian researcher.

Associate Professor Cynthia Mitchell, of the Institute for Sustainable
Futures at the University of Technology, Sydney (UTS), said the
world's deposits of phosphorus are due to run out in about 50 years.

She believes recycling the 132 gallons (500 liters) of urine each
person produces a year is the solution.

Urine is the most concentrated source of phosphorus, she said. At
the moment we dilute that through our sewage system and send it out to
the ocean.

In the industrialized world we must start moving to a
resource-recovery approach rather than the current waste-treatment
approach.

Phosphorus is a key component in agricultural fertilizers and a lack
of phosphorus would affect future soil quality and production.

But Mitchell blames a 'poo taboo' for the failure of governments to
move on the issue of recycling urine.

In a public lecture at UTS later this week, Mitchell will call for a
revolution in sanitation across Australia.

She said technology that allows urine to be separated in the home is
already being used in Sweden.

All new homes in the local council of Tanum are required to have
urine-separation toilets.

--
Thanks,
PC

He's the kind of a guy who lights up a room just by flicking a switch

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--
Zeke Yewdall
Chief Electrical Engineer
Sunflower Solar, A NewPoint Energy Company
Cell: 720.352.2508
Office: 303.459.0177
FAX documents to: 720.269.1240
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.cosunflower.com

CoSEIA Certified
Certified BP Solar Installer
National Association of Home Builders

Quotable Quote

In the dark of the moon, in flying snow,
in the dead of winter, war spreading,
families dying, the world in danger,
I walk the rocky hillside
sowing clover.

Wendell Berry
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Re: [Biofuel] Magic Compost Enhancer

2007-07-13 Thread robert and benita rabello
Doug Younker wrote:

In the event Law enforcement ever sees your urine collection, you may be 
a terrorist suspect or suspect of operating a meth lab.


Wouldn't THAT be ironic . . .

Prisoner: So, whatcha in for?

Me: Peeing in a jug!

robert luis rabello
The Edge of Justice
The Long Journey
New Adventure for Your Mind
http://www.newadventure.ca

Ranger Supercharger Project Page
http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/


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Re: [Biofuel] Magic Compost Enhancer/Urine

2007-07-13 Thread Marylynn Schmidt
Check http://www.shirleys-wellness-cafe.com/urine_martha.htm

Your own Perfect Medicine by Martha Christy

I had the book for a couple of years, read it and then loaned it out so many 
times it eventually didn't come back.  Many times I've thought about 
ordering another one but still haven't done that.

Even without ordering the book, what you will find on the web site will 
clearly indicate that urine collection is alive and strong and it's use is a 
multi-billion dollar industry .. and properties taken from urine goes into a 
huge amount of products from Murine for your eyes, cosmetics, all kinds of 
medicines for all kinds of conditions.

From the book I believe I remember reading that the porta-toilet companies 
redesigned their units to include a urinal.  The porta-toilet company 
created a subsidiary called Enzymes of America that sells the collected 
urine to the pharmaceutical companies and their little subsidiary is a very 
profitable business.

.. couple that with any one of us that may have been born and raised in any 
society remotely connected with puritan teaching .. that anything connected 
with the physical body had to be unclean .. it's almost as if they 
(pharmaceutical) don't want us to know just how good urine is .. and we 
really don't want to know.

Mary Lynn

Rev. Mary Lynn Schmidt, Ordained Minister
ONE SPIRIT ONE HEART: Facilitator/Consultant for Alternative Healing 
Modalities and Practitioner utilizing various modalities which can include 
TTouch . Reiki . Pet Loss Grief Counseling . Animal Behavior Modification . 
Shamanic Spiritual Travel . Behavior Problems . Psionic Energy Practitioner 
. Radionics . Herbs . Dowsing . Nutrition . Homeopathy . Polarity .
THE ANIMAL CONNECTION HEALING MODALITIES
http://members.tripod.com/~MLSchmidt/





From: Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Magic Compost Enhancer
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 08:21:14 -0600

Foxfire.  Used to be my bible - are they still around?

-Weaver

Doug Younker wrote:

 robert and benita rabello wrote:
 
 
 
 
 Indeed!  And they need technology to separate urine?  Grief!  A
 plastic jugg next to the toilet will do.  This saves water, and my maize
 plants are SO much happier . . .
 
 robert luis rabello
 
 
 
 In the event Law enforcement ever sees your urine collection, you may be
 a terrorist suspect or suspect of operating a meth lab. Urine can be
 processed to extract potassium nitrate.  Volume 5 of the Foxfire book
 series details how it was done in the old days for use in manufacturing
 black powder. apearently the urine from met users is processed to
 recover ephedrine
 Doug, N0LKK
 Kansas USA inc.
 
 ___
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 http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
 
 Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 
messages):
 http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
 
 
 


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Re: [Biofuel] biofuel specific?

2007-07-13 Thread Keith Addison
Hello Mike, welcome Kurt

If you switch to a linux-based email system you could use procmail to
filter the messages for you...otherwise I am sure you can set up filters
in Microsoft Outhouse
er, Outlook and numerous other clients...

-Weaver

Kurt uses hotmail. Could always be wrong but I don't think there's 
any good way to handle a mailing list with hotmail.

Otherwise there's this, which is reffed at the list subscribe page:
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg21651.html

Best

Keith


Kurt Schasker wrote:

 
 
  Biofuelers:
  I have been lurking on this list for awhile, but never actually
  participated.
 
  I am wondering if there is some way I could filter the posts to
  read only those that directly related to biofuel issues?
 
   This listserve is very active, and I really do enjoy reading some
  of the posts, so I am not asking for, nor wanting to, have
  anything change on this listserve.
 
  However, this list has active threads going right now on solar
  energy, wind energy, converting plastics to oil, recycling,
  outboard motors, and hemp, just to name a few.  By my definition,
  these ar not biofuel topics.  Of course, the readers of this
  listserve may have different definitions.
 
  So, once again, I do not want anything changed, I just wondered if
  anyone knows a way I could digitally filter out the non-biofuel
  posts so I can read what I want?
 
  The shear volume of posts on this listserve is quite intimidating,
  and so, I am afraid, I often ignore this listserve as a result.
 
  Please accept my apologies, in advance, if this post is at all
  presumptuous or offensive.
 
  I was warned that this was a very active listserve when I first
  joined.  It also seems that there were warnings that the topics
  were often far-reaching.

All aspects of biofuels and their use are covered -- biodiesel, 
ethanol, other alternative fuels, related technologies and issues, 
energy issues, environment, sustainability and more.


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Re: [Biofuel] Magic Compost Enhancer

2007-07-13 Thread Keith Addison
Hello Paul and all

They've discovered our secret!

:-)

It's about time they discovered a few of their own secrets I think.

One is that it's quite hard to find phosphorus-deficient soils. 
What's easy to find is lots and lots of soils where there's plenty of 
phosphorus, but it's all locked up in a form not available to plants.

So the chemical-agriculture solution is to apply loads of 
water-soluble phosphates (superphosphate or triple-superphosphate), a 
tiny percentage of which ever gets to the plant, the rest goes into 
the soil water or joins the existing stocks of unavailable phosphorus.

The phosphorus supply in the soil is either in mineral form (as 
above) or in organic forms in the organic matter and humus in the 
soil, where it's taken up by soil microorganisms in their tissues and 
becomes available when they die (ie slow-release), while some species 
of soil microorganisms produce available forms of phosphorus in 
excess, more than they need, like honey bees produce excess honey. 
Mycorrhizal soil fungi are a major source of organic phosphorus, fed 
direct to the plant roots.

But if you keep knifing harsh chemical fertilisers into the soil the 
organic matter supply gets burnt up and the soil goes acidic, with 
not much living in it to supply phosphorus or anything else much, and 
certainly no mycorrhizal soil fungi.

If you maintain the soil humus and the biodiversity of your crops you 
get it both ways, via the soil life and via the plants themselves, 
with deep-rooters etching fresh minerals out of the subsoil, 
including unavailable phosphorus, which they do by exuding weak 
carbonic acid from the roots.

There's possibly a case for applying phosphorus once, at the 
beginning, when restoring worn-out soil. Organic farmers previously 
used basic sludge for that; I don't know if it's still available or 
still suitable. A good dressing of manure, or green manure, or indeed 
urine, but preferably compost, which contains them all plus all the 
soil bugs needed, is usually sufficient.

Other than that, phosphorus deficiencies are for amateurs. IMHO. Like 
nitrogen deficiencies.

Best

Keith



Urine Offers Rich Phosphorus Source
http://dsc.discovery.com/news/2007/07/10/urine_pla.html?category=earth


July 10, 2007 ó Recycling urine may be the answer to a looming global
shortage of phosphorus, according to an Australian researcher.

Associate Professor Cynthia Mitchell, of the Institute for Sustainable
Futures at the University of Technology, Sydney (UTS), said the
world's deposits of phosphorus are due to run out in about 50 years.

She believes recycling the 132 gallons (500 liters) of urine each
person produces a year is the solution.

Urine is the most concentrated source of phosphorus, she said. At
the moment we dilute that through our sewage system and send it out to
the ocean.

In the industrialized world we must start moving to a
resource-recovery approach rather than the current waste-treatment
approach.

Phosphorus is a key component in agricultural fertilizers and a lack
of phosphorus would affect future soil quality and production.

But Mitchell blames a 'poo taboo' for the failure of governments to
move on the issue of recycling urine.

In a public lecture at UTS later this week, Mitchell will call for a
revolution in sanitation across Australia.

She said technology that allows urine to be separated in the home is
already being used in Sweden.

All new homes in the local council of Tanum are required to have
urine-separation toilets.

--
Thanks,
PC

He's the kind of a guy who lights up a room just by flicking a switch


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Re: [Biofuel] Scientists Estimate That Pesticides are Reducing Crop Yields by ONE-THIRD

2007-07-13 Thread Kirk McLoren
what a sales job they did. I dont use pesticides and I dont lose a third of my 
crop - nor do I poison myself or spend the money for the toxins and the 
application equipment.
  Kirk
  Is there something fundamentally wrong with our society or is it just me?
  I cant believe the suppression of information for profits. How can that be 
reconciled?
  Came across the Gerson therapy. Not so new, Back to Eden was about juicing.
  But the body of evidence - OUTSIDE THE US - that it cures more than the best 
efforts of pharma is overwhelming.
  Our children are given to murderers.
  :(
  Kirk

Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  http://www.organic-center.org/science.hot.php?action=viewreport_id=99
The Organic Center :: State of Science :: Hot Science
Scientists Estimate That Pesticides are Reducing Crop Yields by 
ONE-THIRD Through Impaired Nitrogen Fixation

The Organic Center, 7/10/2007

Over the last forty years nitrogen fertilizer use has increased 
seven-fold and nearly every acre of intensively farmed, conventional 
cropland is treated with pesticides. A team of scientists explored 
the impact of pesticides and other environmental toxicants on 
symbiotic nitrogen fixation (SNF) brought about by Rhizobium bacteria 
(Fox et al., 2007). Their findings were published June 12, 2007 in 
the prestigious Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (read 
full study here).
http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/abstract/104/24/10282

The team describes the critical role played by SNF in supporting crop 
yields and environmental quality. SNF has great potential to reduce 
farm production costs - a factor of growing importance as rising 
natural gas prices push upward the cost of nitrogen fertilizers. In 
Brazil, SNF from soybeans reduces production costs an estimated $1.3 
billion per year. The research by Fox et al. (2007) explored in depth 
the signaling processes between plants and bacteria colonizing plant 
roots - processes that govern the degree of SNF and the production of 
certain phytochemicals. They focused on the ways that pesticides can 
disrupt signaling and impair the efficiency of SNF. Some 30 
pesticides are known to disrupt SNF; the most widely used pesticide 
in the United States, glyphosate (Roundup) is known to be toxic to 
nitrogen fixing bacteria.

The Conclusions?? section of the paper begins by stating:

The results of this study demonstrate that one of the environmental 
impacts of pesticides and contaminants in the soil environment is 
disruption of chemical signaling between the host plants and N-fixing 
Rhiz(obia) necessary for efficient SNF and optimal plant yield.??

Drawing on their recent work and other published studies, the team 
projected that pesticides and other contaminants are reducing plant 
yield by one-third as a result of impaired SNF. This remarkable 
conclusion suggests one mechanism, or explanation of the 
yield-enhancing benefits of well-managed, long-term organic farming 
systems.

Source: Pesticides reduce symbiotic efficiency of nitrogen-fixing 
rhizobia and host plants??

Authors: Jennifer E. Fox, Jay Gulledge, Erika Engelhaupt, Matthew E. 
Burrow, and John A. McLachlan.

Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, Vol. 104, No. 24, 
June 12, 2007.


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Re: [Biofuel] Magic Compost Enhancer

2007-07-13 Thread Keith Addison
Foxfire.  Used to be my bible - are they still around?

-Weaver

http://www.librum.us/pdfs/index.htm
The Librums PDFs Collection Page
The Fox Fire 'HARDCOPY' books are under copyright by the original 
publisher. When one of our sponsors purchased the reprint rights in 
the electronic and microfilm format from the going-out-of-business 
owner (AT) and we moved to restore them for our users the original 
owner kicked up a lot of fuss.

After much negotiation, it was realized that the original owner had 
no legal leg to stand on, but did not care, they had money to throw. 
We also realized we could not compete versus their financial 
resources. So, it was decided to NOT restore the works, to simply 
present them as the AT originals.

This we did for some time, but now due to a request for the 
Copyright mediator, we have removed them from the site. We are 
awaiting the 'final' arbitration decision.

Sorry.

However, try these (big files!):

FoxFire I 1972, 40,781,143 bytes.
http://www.librum.us/pdfs/foxfire1.pdf
FoxFire II 1973, 44,103,776 bytes.
http://www.librum.us/pdfs/foxfire2.pdf
FoxFire III 1975, 52,810,340 bytes.
http://www.librum.us/pdfs/foxfire3.pdf
FoxFire IV 1977, 50,172,233 bytes.
http://www.librum.us/pdfs/foxfire4.pdf
FoxFire V 1979, 43,500,020 bytes.
http://www.librum.us/pdfs/foxfire5.pdf
FoxFire VI 1980, 49,288,652 bytes.
http://www.librum.us/pdfs/foxfire6.pdf

Best

Keith


Doug Younker wrote:

 robert and benita rabello wrote:
 
 
 
 
 Indeed!  And they need technology to separate urine?  Grief!  A
 plastic jugg next to the toilet will do.  This saves water, and my maize
 plants are SO much happier . . .
 
 robert luis rabello
 
 
 
 In the event Law enforcement ever sees your urine collection, you may be
 a terrorist suspect or suspect of operating a meth lab. Urine can be
 processed to extract potassium nitrate.  Volume 5 of the Foxfire book
 series details how it was done in the old days for use in manufacturing
 black powder. apearently the urine from met users is processed to
 recover ephedrine
 Doug, N0LKK
 Kansas USA inc.


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