Re: [Biofuel] Technology and the poor
Hello Elmer, welcome Some comments below... Keith: A comment on the 2009/01/03 Sat AM11:45 EST posting I agree completly, with the premise expressed, that technology as envisioned by the enlightened societies, Do you think the rich/industrialised countries are enlightened? Even after last year? Or the seven years before that, or the 150+ years before that? is not what the poor need to pull themselves out of their predicament. They need help that they understand and can afford. I'm well aware of the conditions in most of Africa and Haiti. Those peoople are cutting down the forest, turning it into charcoal to cook their food. The practice not only lays the Earth bare, but removes habitat for many of the other creatures. Hm. That's quite a sweeping statement. If you proceed on that basis I think you might end up throwing out some babies with the bathwater, and making much the same mistake ITDG criticises the UNDP for in the 2001 Human Development Report in Technology and the poor. http://journeytoforever.org/fyi_previous4.html#1511 Here are some references you might find interesting (from Woodfires that fit, http://journeytoforever.org/at_woodfire.html): Misconceptions About Wood Energy, Wood Energy News, Vol. 12 No. 2, FAO-RWEDP, 1997 http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/misconcept.pdf No Substitution of Traditional Fuels, Dr. W.S. Hulscher, , Bangkok, Wood Energy News, Vol. 12 No. 2, FAO-RWEDP, 1997: It is widely assumed that increased penetration of modern fuels in developing countries implies a process of fuel transition (or fuel shift or fuel substitution), away from traditional fuels and towards modern fuels. A related assumption is that such a shift depends on per capita GNP, and further assumptions are that this fuel shift can and should be promoted by development efforts. These assumptions are not always right... http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/nosubst.pdf Charcoal http://journeytoforever.org/at_woodfire.html#charcoal In my research on composting I have come upon an article Jean Paine Composting http:wwwq.daenvis.org/technology/Indore.htm, Did you type that url? It's much better to copy-and-paste them, then you don't get them wrong. That should be: http://www.daenvis.org/technology/Indore.htm But it's the wrong url anyway, it takes you to a page on the Indore Composing Method. If you want to know about the Indore Composing Method, go to the source, the man who developed it, very much worth the read: The Waste Products of Agriculture -- Their Utilization as Humus by Albert Howard and Yeshwant D. Wad http://journeytoforever.org/farm_library.html#wpa And: An Agricultural Testament by Sir Albert Howard http://journeytoforever.org/farm_library.html#howard This is the page you wanted: JEAN PAIN COMPOSTING http://www.daenvis.org/technology/Jeanpan.htm that describes a process that is an amazingly simple and incredibly inexpensive way of extracting both energy and fertilzer from plant life. They describe a compost pile of tiny brushwood pieces. A sealed metal tank connected to truck inner tubes that produce 100% of a rural households energy needs. In other descriptions of anearobic digestion,it is suggested that human and animal excreta be used in combination with the small chips of either green or dried organic waste (with a PH of near 7 which is attained by a combinations of 30-70 percent green to brown materials). The temperature in those Equtorial areas should be easily maintained at the 90-140 degrees required. Many of the researched areas differ on exactly what works best for the materials composted, it seems that some fine tuning is required for each area as the feed stock will vary. At any rate the digestion should be able to gnerate the methane required to cook food, supply fertilizer and even operate small refrigeration with less work for the families and protect the environment as well. Hm again. It's puzzling that you titled your message Re: [Biofuel] Technology and the poor, though you replied to a different message (below), which is titled Searching the list archives. If you'd gone ahead and done that, you'd have found that the list archives has 86 matches for Jean Pain, it's been discussed here in 86 previous messages, dating from 2004. Here: http://www.mail-archive.com/search?q=%22jean+pain%22l=sustainablelorgbiofuel%40sustainablelists.org The most recent discussion of Jean Pain was a month and a half ago. Here are a couple of excerpts, from two posts by David House, author of The Complete Biogas Handbook http://www.completebiogas.com: Well, there are questions and doubts about Jean Pain's methods too. Same situation. It does not pencil out. It would have been impossible for Jean Pain to have gained more energy out of his small generator than he invested as diesel and gasoline in shredding a small forest to build his compost pile. -- Re: [Biofuel] Biogas - was alternative to
Re: [Biofuel] Jatropha and ethanol
Hi David Keith, Keith Addison wrote: Where can I find a quick transform between gpd/lpd of biodiesel and mixer volume, for batch-process mixers? As to the size of the mixer, how long is a piece of string? I didn't really want to get into this [...] Still, I'm glad you did. That helps a lot. I'm not sure it will though, it's a bit unlikely that they'd use such a setup. More likely the company that provides the processor will decide, and they'd quite likely opt for a bigger processor (and lower labour costs?). What I am trying to do (besides publicly exposing my ignorance re biodiesel), :-) Never mind, so are they. is to get some idea of how it will look on the ground so I can fold that information into my thoughts about the design of the biogas part of the process, which (as mentioned) is apparently an afterthought. As the poor step child, feeding from the table scraps of the biodiesel process, it behooves us to have a fine understanding of what is happening so as not to get in the way... Finally, I mentioned interplanting or intercropping options with Jatropha. I have found some resources regarding this [...] Did you try this? http://www.fact-fuels.org/en/FACT_Knowledge_Centre/FACT_Publications?session=cl4scdo0dk1e8c4ql2hpeev1s1 I had not previously seen that page, although I had encountered some of the publications, such as the handbook. Again, many thanks. Also: Physic nut -- Jatropha curcas L. Promoting the conservation and use of underutilized and neglected crops [...] I did run across that publication by Heller. But in spite of its relatively recent vintage (1996) he seems unconvinced that you (and your brethren and sistren) exist: Yeah he's right, we don't exist, it's more peaceful that way. Transesterified oil can be used in any diesel engine. This process is normally carried out in centralized plants since the the small-scale economy of transesterification has not been determined. [p 22, para 3] :-) So it is sometimes alleged, especially in the world of jatropha it seems. Eg: Production principle: SVO - decentralized small oil expellers Biodiesel - central, big industrial units [Also:] Human toxicity SVO - regularly no or small Biodiesel - toxic And so on - from Comparison of pure plant oil and bio diesel as fuel by Prof. E. Schrimpff, FH Weihenstephan, Germany http://jatropha.org/p-o-engines/svo-bd-characteristics.htm A rather ignorant professor. Schrimpff hmpff. And he does not even mention biogas (sniff!). Aw. Quite a lot about it at www.fact-fuels.org though, hope that helps. For my own purposes only, I found Claims and Facts on Jatropha curcas L. (linked from the page you mentioned) to have more of the sort of information that interests me (http://www.ifad.org/events/jatropha/breeding/claims.pdf and elsewhere). Yes, that's quite useful. Thanks. Best Keith d. -- David William House The Complete Biogas Handbook |www.completebiogas.com| Make no search for water. But find thirst, And water from the very ground will burst. (Rumi, a Persian mystic poet, quoted in /Delight of Hearts/, p. 77) ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Algea: food and fuel, 5 gal processor response
Hello, Ernest from Texas again. An interesting article about algea, biofuel and food that I found: http://blog.wired.com/wiredscience/2008/12/whatisfood.html Keith and Zeke responded to my last email about making a 5-gallon processor. Thanks for that. Keith, you perceptively asked if my small batches had passed the wash test. They did not. Instead of scaling up, I will work on my technique. I plan to do something like the Poor Man's Titration http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make2.html#poor - I suspect that too much lye was producing soaps. Didn't I read that adding vinegar to the unwashed fuel will cause unreacted lye to fall out? I hope all enjoyed a safe holiday season. Cheers from Texas. It was a balmy 80 degrees a few days ago. It seems climate change has arrived here to my home state. -Ernest -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20090105/244c8933/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Technology and the poor
-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg73759.html http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg73759.html http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg73759.html Your observation that with biogas some fine tuning is required for each area also applies to development work in general. Each community is different, each case is different, and it's the local people who must make the decisions. Elmer, why not send the list the original message you sent me on your ideas for an indoor composting toilet system, that's why I suggested you join the list. It's up to you, of course, but you don't seem to be getting very far otherwise. Best wishes Keith This will require some education and money for materials, but I believe it can be done with less effort and money than is currently spent by governments on their military budgets. And will ceertainly produce better results in reducing poverty than the weapons. Elmer Stenger On Sun, Jan 4, 2009 at 5:12 AM, Adrian Higgs wrote: Thanks, Keith - that is most helpful. An excellent search facility, too. Adrian --- On Sat, 3/1/09, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Biofuel] Searching the list archives To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org Date: Saturday, 3 January, 2009, 3:39 PM Biofuel list archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ There are 74,000 messages, 498.4 Mb of it, and that's in a compressed format, it's at least 500 books' worth. Say for instance you want to know more about the stability of soy biodiesel because someone told you it oxidizes. To find messages with both the words soy and oxidation type: soy oxidation - exact phrase: soy oxidation - soy but not oxidation: +soy -oxidation - soy and oxidation or oxidize or oxidizing or oxidized: soy oxid* - boolean: soy (oxidation OR polymerization) or: (oxidation OR polymerization) AND soy also: soy (oxidation AND polymerization) etc. Capitals/lower-case matters in boolean searches when you type OR or AND, otherwise it doesn't matter. The search gives you a list of matches, 10 per page. The whole of the thread is linked at the end of each message. As you browse the search results you discover further keywords to search for: iodine, EN 14214, antioxidant, and so on. HTH - best Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20090105/b8253211/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
