Re: [biofuel] Archive Operational
Martin, Absolutely outstanding archive. Perhaps the best I've ever used. And blisteringly fast too. Hopefully this performance will not degenerate as more lists are added. Good Work! Thanks, Ted Swarts Kelowna, British Columbia - Original Message - From: Martin Klingensmith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2002 9:22 AM Subject: [biofuel] Archive Operational The Email-Archive for the Biofuel list is now operational. It works however I am still adding features to it. If you have any recommendations please tell me. It can be found at http://archive.nnytech.net/ Thanks = -Martin Klingensmith http://devzero.ath.cx/ http://www.nnytech.net/ __ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Archive Operational
Martin, Would it be too much to ask for the addition of a wildcard feature to your archive? This is to say, could you add the ability to search for posts that contain more than two terms, as in a search for posts that contain all the words in a list, such as 'ethanol and efficiency and distillation'. I don't want to sound greedy, for your effort is appreciated regardless of your response, but it seems to me that such a feature would be more attractive than using the 'paging' option you suggested in response to the question posed by Edward of Neoteric. Thanks one way or the other, Ted Swarts Kelowna, British Columbia - Original Message - From: Ted Swarts [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2002 11:45 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Archive Operational Martin, Absolutely outstanding archive. Perhaps the best I've ever used. And blisteringly fast too. Hopefully this performance will not degenerate as more lists are added. Good Work! Thanks, Ted Swarts Kelowna, British Columbia - Original Message - From: Martin Klingensmith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2002 9:22 AM Subject: [biofuel] Archive Operational The Email-Archive for the Biofuel list is now operational. It works however I am still adding features to it. If you have any recommendations please tell me. It can be found at http://archive.nnytech.net/ Thanks = -Martin Klingensmith http://devzero.ath.cx/ http://www.nnytech.net/ __ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get your FREE credit report with a FREE CreditCheck Monitoring Service trial http://us.click.yahoo.com/ACHqaB/bQ8CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Archive Operational
Martin, The column header feature is nice, as is the ability to use of multiple words, in the form of an 'OR' statement as in 'ethanol OR efficiency OR distillation'. But what I was referring to, in my previous post, was to use a boolean 'AND' operator to get only those posts that contain all of the listed words. This would allow one to reduce the number of retrieved post to only those that are most likely to be important to the user. For example, by saying 'ethanol AND efficiency AND distillation' one would hope for a listing of only those posts that each contain all three of these words. Thanks for listening, Ted Swarts Kelowna, British Columbia - Original Message - From: Martin Klingensmith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2002 2:27 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Archive Operational Hey Ted You can search for multiple words try searching for ethanol efficiency distillation - order of the words does not matter. You may notice that you can click on the column headers as well, this will sort the results in ascending order. click on it again and it will sort in descending order. Try it out! -Martin --- Ted Swarts [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Martin, Would it be too much to ask for the addition of a wildcard feature to your archive? This is to say, could you add the ability to search for posts that contain more than two terms, as in a search for posts that contain all the words in a list, such as 'ethanol and efficiency and distillation'. I don't want to sound greedy, for your effort is appreciated regardless of your response, but it seems to me that such a feature would be more attractive than using the 'paging' option you suggested in response to the question posed by Edward of Neoteric. Thanks one way or the other, Ted Swarts Kelowna, British Columbia = -Martin Klingensmith http://devzero.ath.cx/ http://www.nnytech.net/ __ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get your FREE credit report with a FREE CreditCheck Monitoring Service trial http://us.click.yahoo.com/ACHqaB/bQ8CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Bacterial Batteries
The journal Nature reports that bacterial batteries may be possible. What's undecided is how mankind may exploit the phenomenon. Ted Swarts Kelowna, British Columbia Bacterial batteries clean up Researchers name the microbes that could produce power by munching pollution. 18 January 2002 PHILIP BALL The sea bed could be one big battery. Bacteria could clear up oil spills and generate electricity at the same time. US scientists have identified microbes that produce power as they digest organic waste1. The bacteria strip electrons from carbon in ocean sediments to convert it into the carbon dioxide they need for metabolism and growth. Usually the organisms just dump the electrons onto iron or sulphate minerals on the ocean floor. But the bugs will just as happily pile electrons onto one electrode of an electrical circuit. As researchers at Oregon State University in Corvallis discovered early last year, you can make a battery by planting an electrode in sea-floor sediments and leaving the other in the sea water above2. This discovery raised hopes that the seabed might be exploited as a natural low-level power source for the equipment that monitors water current and temperature, which is widely used to guide navigation. The bacteria could be put to work in aquifers contaminated by oil or sewage Derek Lovley, University of Massachusetts The Oregon team knew that the electrical energy was coming from microorganisms, but they didn't know which creatures were involved. Now Derek Lovley of the University of Massachusetts at Amherst and colleagues have identified the culprits by making sediment batteries in the laboratory and analysing the bacteria clustered on one of the electrodes. The organisms belong to the family Geobacteraceae. Lovley's team also found that some freshwater-dwelling members of the family can do the same thing. These might be put to work in aquifers contaminated by oil or sewage, Lovley suggests. Freshwater Geobacteraceae can break down petroleum in polluted groundwater on their own, but are often hampered by the lack of sufficient electron acceptors (such as the iron minerals). By providing these bacteria with an electrode that carts the electrons away, researchers could help bioremediation to proceed - and can capture a little electricity into the bargain. The above article may be found in its original form at: http://www.nature.com/nsu/020114/020114-9.html Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get your FREE credit report with a FREE CreditCheck Monitoring Service trial http://us.click.yahoo.com/ACHqaB/bQ8CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Solid Catalyst
Glen, With respect to publicly financed research ending up in the pulbic sector, you expressed contempt at misguided government people who think the best way to put the technology to the greatest use is to allow anyone to use and profit from it. I may have misinterpreted you position, if so correct me, but if I hadn't, please explain your position. In my world, the only place for publicly financed technologies are the public sector. Any other solution hinders futher development, stiffles market forces, and costs the public big time for what they have already in essence paid for. Ted Swarts Kelowna, British Columbia - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2002 8:07 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Solid Catalyst Re the solid catalyst that was presumedly developed at Idaho National Energy Lab about three years ago. How much info was divulged at the time and was any attempt ever made to patent the technology? Patent laws change, but the last time I looked at it, after a public disclosure, the inventor has one year to initiate a patent application. If after a year has elapsed and no attempt is made to patent it, the technology everts to the public domain. One of the issues a government contractor lab would want to avoid would be to avoid the appearance of preferential treatment. If the technology were of critical importance in an industry, such as it is alleged is the case here, one way to avoid that appearance of preferential treatment would be to let the technology revert into the public domain. Alternatively, if the technology were patented, and the technology was not of any particular value to an Agency mission program, why risk the charge of preferential treatment by, say, allowing one of the big eight to buy and bury it? Then, in addition, there are some misguided government people who think the best way to put the technology to the greatest use is to allow anyone to use and profit from it. Methinks they probably know better, but this position suits their purpose, which, as indicated, is to avoid being put in a position of being accused of preferential treatment. I suggest do a search to determine whether the invention has been sufficiently disclosed, followed by an elapsed time of at least one year, to cause the invention to revert to the public domain. Since you have the name of the inventors, do a literature search to see what turns up. The procedure used to be, when I worked at a national lab as a development engineer, to submit the disclosure to the government contractor patent ofifice, to see whether the government wanted to patent the idea. If it wasn't strictly mission related, chances are the government wasn't interested. Then, if sufficiently interested, the inventor had to option of requesting that he be allowed to patent same as in individual. Given the urge to publish, the invention usually had been disclosed in the open literature early in the process. The government then had a choice: allow the individual to patent, or allow the patent to revert into the publc domain, by delaying any decision until 12 months after the disclosure. I remember one case, the Higgins Ion Exchange Column, where the government allowed Higgins to patent, which he did. Shortly thereafter he left the employ of the government contractor and developed a profitable business marketing his exchange column. If this solid catalyst item is as important as it appears to be, the contractor lab could be faced with losing a good man, as in the case of Higgins, if they allow the inventor to patent the solid catalyst invention. I suggest, get in touch with the inventor, offer him a joint venture, and support him in whatever way possible. The invention needs to be patented, because whatever belongs to everyone really belongs to noone. Unless a proprietary position can be developed, I believe there would be little possibility to develop the necessary funding to get this technology into the marketplace. But, given the state of the art that is being developed here, together, with a proprietary position with this patent -- ;who knows what could result? . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Tiny Wireless Camera under $80! Order Now! FREE VCR Commander! Click Here - Only 1 Day Left! http://us.click.yahoo.com/WoOlbB/7.PDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages
Re: [biofuel] Re: Biofuel efficiency
Hello Edward. During your tests, were the NO2 emissions from the Biofuels also 50% less than pertroDiesel? If my memory serves me, NO2 emissions from BioDiesel were higher during tests in Sweden as compared to their premium petroDiesel. Its my understanding that NO2 plays a significant role in gound level ozone as well as acid rain (nitric acid). Ted Swarts Kelowna, British Columbia - Original Message - From: Neoteric Biofuels Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 9:45 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Biofuel efficiency There is certainly less in the way of emissions studies for SVO than biodiesel. However, I can tell you that as part of my thesis research I had the opportunity to have a VW Jetta tested on various fuels at a major research facility. For the usual EPA emissions (HC, CO, NOx, CO2) SVO and WVO both came in at no significant difference to results for commercial biodiesel. For opacity, all the alternative fuels tested (biodiesel, new Canola, and WVO) came in ~ 50% lower than petrodiesel. Note that the petrodiesel used was a premium diesel, not regular diesel, was sold at a higher price than regular diesel, and contained additives purported to reduce opacity, clean injectors, etc. It was run for several months prior to these tests, and compared qualitatively against regular diesel and SVO. The premium diesel did appear to reduce opacity in those observations compared to regular diesel. Therefore, the ~50% reductions recorded at the test facility might have been even greater if we had used regular diesel as the baseline. --- Also in looking at emissions tests, one thing to keep in mind is that if an engine that has been in service is tested, the biodiesel could clean out existing deposits in conditioning and calibration runs, and if those are run after the diesel tests, and deposits on injectors are cleaned off from the solvent effect of biodiesel, it might have an influence on results. It is important to look at several studies and read through the test conditions, order of tests, pre-test conditioning, number of runs, type of engine, ambient temp., type of diesel fuel used, type of biodiesel, type of SVO (straight vegetable oil) , type and condition of WVO (waste vegetable oil), whether any other exhaust after-treatment was used (catalytic converters). --- Then there's the non-regulated emissions and various products of combustion (another day!)...and ultimately a reality check on whether the picture of individual emissons and combinations are an improvement compared to status quo on diesel and petrol emissions (overall smog forming potential instead of looking just at NOx, for example), whether there are global emissions benefits (eg.CO2 reduction on life cycle basis), energy efficiency of the production process (SVO being better than biodiesel being better than petrodiesel), content of renewables (SVO essentially being 100%, biodiesel containing 20% or so methanol - usually... and usually from non-renewable natural gas sources), emissions/pollution of production/transportation/refining/distribution versus local production and sale, and the extent of any other social, economic, and environmental benefits of the various fuels. IMO, re: overall emissions for biodiesel or SVO overall benefits - I have to say that SVO seems to come out ahead. Here are a couple of links that support that view: Note that that organization is mostly interested in the production and use of new oil at the farm or local level from seed, particularly winter rapeseed, and associated use of the seedcake as a portion of feed versus imports of soy meal. So that all becomes part of the equation as well. It all gets to be quite interesting (!) and it can great fun to bore people with the details of your reading and watch their eyes glaze over. People you really don't want to chat long with at Christmas parties are good targets for such discussions, leaving more time to mull over the details in your head whilst sipping punch and nibbling on shortbread cookies with unidentified sparkly things on them. ;-) http://www.folkecenter.dk/plant-oil/plant-oil_en.htm http://www.folkecenter.dk/plant-oil/pressr_rapeseed_08112001.htm --- Edward Beggs www.biofuels.ca --- From: Tim Helweg-Larsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Organization: Lycos Mail (http://mail.lycos.com:80) Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 13:01:33 +0100 To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] Re: Biofuel efficiency Hi Scott, I am new too. I write from England and I am on my way to selling my petrol car and sorting out a biofuel dieslel. There is a company here in England, the only one in fact which makes and sells biodiesel comercialy. I think they have a proprietary manufacturing method and their biodiesel has a higher cetane number (58) than regular diesel (51). I think
Re: [biofuel] SVO Odd road tax issue, Break even point on conversion.
Dana, Can't help you with the tax stuff but your question did raise a related one in my mind at least. How long it will be before the IRS, or Revenue Canada where I live, will start demanding all users of WVO and SVO to report the volumes they consume so they may apply some sort of tax on that consumption? As home grown biofuel increases in use, especially in Canada where the goverment depends heavily on taxation of fossil fuels at the consumption level, I can't help but wonder how long it will take for them to interpret the phenomonom as a form of tax evasion. Taxation aside, thanks alot for sharing your nicely expressed cost analysis Ted Swarts Kelowna, British Columbia - Original Message - From: Dana Linscott [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Yahoo Biofuel biofuel@yahoogroups.com; vegoil [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 8:57 PM Subject: [biofuel] SVO Odd road tax issue, Break even point on conversion. Well, this is interesting. I have been calling my state govt. and (US) federal revenue offices (for the past six months) to see which forms I would have to file in order to pay road tax on my SVO converted vehicle. I assumed I would owe a per gallon tax equal to what I pay when I buy gasoline or diesel fuel for on road use and being the good and honest citizen I wanted pay these taxes if due. I had called both offices repeatedly over the summer beginning when I first converted my truck but the state revenue office told me they had no form to cover what I was asking for and asked me to call back in the fall. When I did they asked me to call back later and so on. They finally simply said they currently had no way to allow me to pay the taxes I figured I owed. They further informed me that they probably would not have anything change in the next year...but I should call back just to be safe. That was nice. The federal internal revenue office dealing with fuel taxes simply refuses to return any of my calls over the past six months even though I have left over half a dozen messages detailing my question of how could I go about paying the taxes I feel I owe. However when I call their counterparts in the income tax division (who DO call me back) I am told only the fuel tax division can possibly answer my question. Heavy sigh here. I use my converted vehicle for business travel and so the last time I spoke to the federal income tax folks I asked if I was still entitled to claim the 35 cents per mile deduction on my income tax for business related travel. The answer was YES! I wonder if there are any tax exemptions/deductions for using SVO (since it is a renewable resource) or WVO (since it is also a recycled material). Does anyone have any information on this for the US? Would anyone be interested if I find more info on this? I decided to calculate the economics of converting my truck to SVO since they appear to be much better than I originally anticipated. They are as follows: Cost of conversion---$250. Cost of SVO processing unit$125. Cost per gallon of WVO---$0.0. Total cost over the past 6 months-$375. Fuel cost averted$163 Actual cost minus fuel savings-$212 This is based upon: Miles driven3,750 Cost of diesel fuel used$24 Cost of WVO/SVO$0.0 Fuel cost per mile-$0.006 I average about 15,000 miles per year of which nearly 12,000 miles is for business purposes. Because my gas powered vehicle gets twice the fuel mileage of my converted truck I drive the truck less. If I had parked my car and only driven my SVO powered truck over the past six months the figures (extrapolated) would be: Miles driven -7,500 Fuel cost averted---$163(truck) $123(car) Actual cost minus fuel savings$89 Extrapolating further to a year: Miles driven--15,000 Fuel cost averted$326(truck) $246(car) Actual cost minus fuel savings-$197 (on the plus side) If I had sold the car or simply canceled its' insurance(since I would not have been driving it) I could add nearly $200 in savings to that. But if I end up paying 40 cents per gallon in road tax I am $133 in the hole after the cost of conversion and filtering equipment. Close as I can figure it my break even point in that case will be 16 months after I converted. After that I will be pocketing nearly $600 per year. That would be nearly $1000 per year if the tax folks continue to not allow me to pay the road tax I figure I owe. With what I have learned in the last six months I believe I could now convert my truck for around $110 and it would be a more sophisticated installation with more safeguards for my engine and better monitoring
Re: [biofuel] Re: Biofuel efficiency
Hello Winfried, I heard that NOx from biodiesel was a problem from a paper titled: Biodiesel: The Use of Vegetable Oils and Their Derivatives as Alternative Diesel Fuels. The paper was authored by: Gerhard Knothe, Robert O. Dunn, and Marvin O. Bagby who were sponsored by: Oil Chemical Research, National Center for Agricultural Utilization Research, Agricultural Research Service, U.S. Department of Agriculture, Peoria, IL 61604 I've lost the URL to the paper but you should be able to find with a google search using the information above. Here is the claim from that paper: start quote It is generally recognized that biodiesel has lower emissions, with the exception of nitrogen oxides (NOx), than conventional petroleum-based DF. For example, due to its lack of sulfur, biodiesel does not cause SO2 emissions. The lower emissions have caused biodiesel to be used in urban bus fleets and to make it especially suitable for other niche markets such as mining and marine engines. Besides environmental and health reasons with accompanying Government regulations, focusing on the use of biodiesel in niche markets is rendered additionally attractive because not enough vegetable oil is produced to supply the whole diesel market with biodiesel. Numerous reports exist showing that fuel economies of certain biodiesel blends and conventional DF are virtually identical. In numerous on-the-road tests, primarily with urban bus fleets, vehicles running on blends of biodiesel with conventional DF (usually 80% conventional DF and 20% biodiesel; for a list of most biodiesel demonstration programs in the United States, see Ref. 6) required only about 2-5% more of the blended fuel than of the conventional fuel. No significant engine problems were reported as discussed later. end quote As to the claim's validity, I have not a clue and that is why I asked Edward at Neoteric for his data, to either support of discount it. To date, Edward hasn't replied. Ted Swarts Kelowna, British Columbia - Original Message - From: Winfried Rijssenbeek [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 3:31 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Biofuel efficiency Hello Ted, I am working on a study on biodiesel in developing countries and indeed found this concern about higher NO2 emissions. Can you refer me to that Swedish study. The information seems to be conflicting: some say that biodiesel does not have more NO2 emissions than the petrodiesel, and that the emissions are a function of the temperature? Winfried - Original Message - From: Ted Swarts [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 9:20 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Biofuel efficiency Hello Edward. During your tests, were the NO2 emissions from the Biofuels also 50% less than pertroDiesel? If my memory serves me, NO2 emissions from BioDiesel were higher during tests in Sweden as compared to their premium petroDiesel. Its my understanding that NO2 plays a significant role in gound level ozone as well as acid rain (nitric acid). Ted Swarts Kelowna, British Columbia - Original Message - From: Neoteric Biofuels Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 9:45 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Biofuel efficiency There is certainly less in the way of emissions studies for SVO than biodiesel. However, I can tell you that as part of my thesis research I had the opportunity to have a VW Jetta tested on various fuels at a major research facility. For the usual EPA emissions (HC, CO, NOx, CO2) SVO and WVO both came in at no significant difference to results for commercial biodiesel. For opacity, all the alternative fuels tested (biodiesel, new Canola, and WVO) came in ~ 50% lower than petrodiesel. Note that the petrodiesel used was a premium diesel, not regular diesel, was sold at a higher price than regular diesel, and contained additives purported to reduce opacity, clean injectors, etc. It was run for several months prior to these tests, and compared qualitatively against regular diesel and SVO. The premium diesel did appear to reduce opacity in those observations compared to regular diesel. Therefore, the ~50% reductions recorded at the test facility might have been even greater if we had used regular diesel as the baseline. --- Also in looking at emissions tests, one thing to keep in mind is that if an engine that has been in service is tested, the biodiesel could clean out existing deposits in conditioning and calibration runs, and if those are run after the diesel tests, and deposits on injectors are cleaned off from the solvent effect of biodiesel, it might have an influence on results. It is important to look at several studies and read through the test conditions, order of tests, pre-test
[biofuel] re: Sodium Borohydrate
All, Many companies are using Boron compounds as a storage medium for Hydrogen. In one instance, the compounds are carried in a solution of sodium hydroxide and are passed over a catalyst (a florinated metal hydride) to release hydrogen and oxygen which are then separated so that the hydrogen may feed a fuel cell. For more info go to: http://alliance.hydrogen.co.jp/E_INDEX/e_1index.html Ted Swarts Kelowna, British Columbia Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Break free. Great American Smokeout http://us.click.yahoo.com/3vN8tD/.pSDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Why people like SUVs (was Re: Thinking about buying a car?)
Jim, In some instances, a larger vehicle, even one in the form of an SUV, may be preferable as compared to a compact or energy efficient vehicle, but for the vast majority of people, this just isn't the case. For a family of four, a car like the Honda Civic will fulfill all the requirements you allude to in your conclusion, and it will do so in a far better way than most larger cars, including larger vehicles from Honda itself. With respect to the six points you raised, here are my humble replies. ... just getting the kids in the car is difficult ... The problem your family is experiencing relates to the design of your car rather than its size. For example, my '97 Civic sedan is easier to get in and out than a four-door Subaru Forester 2000, regardless of which door is used. As well, it has more headroom in its rear seats than most mid sized American car have in their front seats. The same goes for the trunk. ... the larger a vehicel people will choose, because they are more confortable, less exausting to drive. My civic drives well over any surface, from logging roads to frost heaved asphalt ones. It is far more comfortable than my full sized 4WD Blazer, a truck I use solely for work, and it is better than most pickups and SUVs on the market. Recreation / hobbies ... I've taken four adults skiing in my Civic, from Kelowna to Big White, which is about a 1-hour drive, and absolutely no problems or discomfort were experienced. The skis neatly fit into a roof rack and other equipment went into the truck. I've carried two 20' kayaks on the roof rack, and two mountain bikes on a rear bike rack, along with other camping equipment in the truck, on a camping trip of over 800 kms. Safety, ... There is some merit to this point. If a larger vehicle hits a smaller one, I'd prefer to be in the larger one. But if I were trying to evade an accident, regardless of road conditions, I'd much sooner be in my Civic that just about any vehicle including most 4x4s. Living in the mountains of British Columbia as I do, experiencing a wide range of road conditions, I speak form significant experience here. On mountain roads, I'll pass larger vehicles, especially American built SUVs that are in ditches all over the place, on a routine basis. The most important consideration with respect to traction in wet and snowy conditions is good rubber, such as Michelin Alpin tires, and smart driving. The only place I'd rather be driving a 4WD is in really deep snow or in certain off road conditions. Storage room, for work ... For certain jobs, I need my Blazer for exactly that reason. Indeed, that's the only reason I still have it. Wealth and Status ... Every day I see lots of people driving much more expensive cars than mine but I don't see them as superior or as having more status. Rather I usually see them as vain and uncaring. Every day I see lots of people alone in huge SUV's and pickups and I don't see them as having more wealth. Rather, I see them as being wasteful and insecure. What the auto industry needs, especially the American side, are not larger cars but smaller ones that are better built and designed. It is sad that not a single American small or compact or even midsize car is in the same class as the Honda Civic or the Toyota Tercel. It is sad that smaller American cars are not only look cheap but are built that way too, perhaps to motivate consumers to buy up, into larger vehicles, or perhaps because American car designers have a distorted perception of quality. Small is good, Jim. And when cruch time comes (oil shortages), it may be the only affordable way to get around. Now if only we can get Honda to put a BioDiesel engine into one of its models. Ted Swarts Kelowna, British Columbia - Original Message - From: Greg and April [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 4:29 PM Subject: [biofuel] Why people like SUVs (was Re: Thinking about buying a car?) - Original Message - From: Alan S. Petrillo Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 16:24 Subject: [biofuel] Re: Thinking about buying a car? I must admit I do very often wonder at my fellow Americans' love affair with Big Trucks. They just don't make any sense. Particularly the SUV's. I have been thinking about it for a while and this is the conclusion I have come up with. 1) Size of family, people with larger family need a larger vehicel to get around as a family. I look at this from personal experance. The wife has a Hundai Excel, not a bad little car, and for a family of three about right, now that we have a new baby, just getting the kids in the car is diffacult, baby seat and booster seat in the back seat of the car makes it hard to get them in and out. The more things like baby and booster seats get scrunched together, in that car the harder it is to see out the rear view mirror. Forget about storage space, for a family vacation or even a weekend trip. 2
Re: [biofuel] Ethxx
Neat stuff, Edward. I'd like to know what the Net Energy (EROI) for this process is. Any ideas on how to get it? Even if the EROI is significantly greater than 1, we should all remember that the limiting factor for this technology is Biomass. To supply the world's current energy needs, technology like this could easily turn the entire planet into one big Dune. On the other hand, if used with restraint, it may play an important role in our future energy needs. Ted Swarts Kelowna, British Columbia - Original Message - From: Neoteric Biofuels Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2001 5:12 AM Subject: [biofuel] Ethxx http://www.ethxx.com/news_press_march.asp?section=newslevel=a ethanol-from-waste Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- See What You've Been Missing! Amazing Wireless Video Camera. Click here http://us.click.yahoo.com/75YKVC/7.PDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Manhattan Scientifics Fuel Cell Bike -- INVENTION OF THE YEAR
Greg, The fears and misinformation about hydrogen and its destructive capacity are without bound. This is likely due to images of a burning Hindenberg that lies in the recesses of many of our minds. Hydrogen gas, when used as a fuel, may be dangerous but, it is not nearly as dangerous as most other fuels including methane, methanol, ethanol, propane and gasoline. Heck, more people die of carbon monoxide poisoning that from leaking or exploding hydrogen gas. Please check out the facts on hydrogen safety at sites such as the National Hydrogen Association's which is at: http://www.hydrogenus.com/ Ted Swarts Kelowna, British Columbia - Original Message - From: Greg and April [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 9:05 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Manhattan Scientifics Fuel Cell Bike -- INVENTION OF THE YEAR - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 20:14 Subject: [biofuel] Manhattan Scientifics Fuel Cell Bike -- INVENTION OF THE YEAR HYDROGEN-POWERED BIKES COMING SOON ? [EMAIL PROTECTED] Time Magazine Names Aprilia/Manhattan Scientifics Fuel Cell Bike as the Invention of the Year.. Time said, Fuel-cell technology, which uses pollution free hydrogen gas to generate an electric current, could ignite electric bike sales. The first prototype, from Italian bike maker Aprilia, stores compressed hydrogen in a 2-liter canister housed in the frame. . Nice, but I don't think I want to be sitting on a 2 liter bomb when it decided to go off. I think that they would be better off if the fuel cell ran on alcohol, ethanol would be fine, and a lot more avalable. I don't know of any handy place to pick up compressed H2, does anyone else ? Greg H. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- See What You've Been Missing! Amazing Wireless Video Camera. Click here http://us.click.yahoo.com/75YKVC/7.PDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Manhattan Scientifics Fuel Cell Bike -- INVENTION OF THE YEAR
Greg, I understand your concern and I suppose that only time will provide you and many others with any sense of trust as to the pressurized storage of what is a combustible gas. In British Columbia, for well over the past twenty years, compressed natural gas has been a choice available to motorists and to the best of my knowledge there hasn't been a single reported accident, explosion, or death as a result. Propane as well has been used in a similar manner but its safety record is not nearly as good. The problems with propane relate to its weight. On a boat, for instance, it settles below air and it becomes a bomb when ignited by a spark. One of the better properties of Hydrogen gas, which is also a lousy one when taken from the perspective of volume, is its lightness relative to air and its dissipative quality. This means that when an H2 container does rupture or leak, the harmful quality of the gas is rapidly neutralized. If the canister in a fuel cell powered bike was to be punctured, a stream of hydrogen would be emitted but the steam would most probably dissipate quickly and would therefore be rendered harmless. If a spark were to ignite the steam, you would end up with a torch that would most likely continue to burn in a controlled manner until all the gas had been exhausted. This compares favorably with a leak in a gas tank that settles or puddles and remains harmful until it evaporates fully, which on a cool day could be a long time. In this scenario, if the puddle is ignited, the flame would follow the stream of fuel into the tank which would them explode? Nothing is safe in this world and hydrogen is no exception but for my purposes it's a hell of a lot better than fossil fuels. The really big problems with hydrogen are extracting it from water, in an energy efficient way, and storing it in a small amount of space. Ted Swarts Kelowna, British Columbia - Original Message - From: Greg and April [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 12:37 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Manhattan Scientifics Fuel Cell Bike -- INVENTION OF THE YEAR - Original Message - From: Ted Swarts Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 12:30 Subject: Re: [biofuel] Manhattan Scientifics Fuel Cell Bike -- INVENTION OF THE YEAR Greg, The fears and misinformation about hydrogen and its destructive capacity are without bound. Don't get me wrong, H2 is a great fuel, but, anything that relies on high compression to get any amount of realistic useablity is very dangrous. This is likely due to images of a burning Hindenberg that lies in the recesses of many of our minds. Or the space shuttle Challenger? (BTW I know it wasn't the H2 that caused the problem with the Hindenberg, the H2 only added to it) Hydrogen gas, when used as a fuel, may be dangerous but, it is not nearly as dangerous as most other fuels including methane, methanol, ethanol, propane and gasoline. I agree that they have dangers, methanol more then ethanol, methane (when compressed) more then propane ( of same BTU value ). It is not the fuel I have a problem with, it's the means of storage. High pressure storage is a problem, has been for sometime, and I think will be for a while yet. It does not matter what is being stored, be it methane ( natural gas ) or H2, the high pressures needed to get usable values, makes it dangerous. Propane like butane are exceptions, because while under pressure, they are lower pressure. If a full tank of H2 developes a leak (even a small one), the tank is more likely to fail in very spectacular fashion, because of the pressures involved. If a full tank of Propane developes a small leak, the leak is less likely to grow and the tank fail. The bike would be better if it used a tank of metal hydrides for fuel storage. Greg H. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- See What You've Been Missing! Amazing Wireless Video Camera. Click here http://us.click.yahoo.com/75YKVC/7.PDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Ethxx
About Ethxx and ethanol-from-waste, neat stuff, Edward. I'd like to know what the Net Energy (EROI) for this process is. Any ideas on how to get it? Even if the EROI is significantly greater than 1, we should all remember that the limiting factor for this technology is Biomass. To supply the world's current energy needs, technology like this could easily turn the entire planet into one big Dune. On the other hand, if used with restraint, it may play an important role in our future energy needs. Ted Swarts Kelowna, British Columbia - Original Message - From: Neoteric Biofuels Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2001 5:12 AM Subject: [biofuel] Ethxx http://www.ethxx.com/news_press_march.asp?section=newslevel=a ethanol-from-waste Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- See What You've Been Missing! Amazing Wireless Video Camera. Click here http://us.click.yahoo.com/75YKVC/7.PDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -- ---~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ - Original Message - From: Neoteric Biofuels Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2001 5:12 AM Subject: [biofuel] Ethxx http://www.ethxx.com/news_press_march.asp?section=newslevel=a ethanol-from-waste Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: NADI and Komet was Safety and the environment(waswashing machine and biodiesel)
Dear Edward, I agree that biofuel, in many of its forms, has a place in the global energy matrix. But I personally see its place as limited by the ability of our planet to provide feedstock, in a sustainable way, and by the EROEI of the fuel production processes. Widespread use of croplands, for the principal purposes of energy production, is untenable and even the widespread use of harvested byproducts has severe limitations. In my mind, agricultural waste is better served as fertilizer, which as you well know, is now driven principally by a rapidly depleting resource, fossil fuels. More significant than limited feedstock, is the raw energy to produce biofuel. This issue has been debated here and elsewhere but, no matter how you look at it, given the fuel production processes as discussed in this forum and as described in the popular literature, biofuel has at best a small positive EROEI and, even then, it is only when access to required resources is favorable. These combined issues severely limit the widespread application of all biofuels. Don't get me wrong, please. I'm not saying that biofuel doesn't have a place. Nor am I saying that improved technology and processes will not play a role in making its place more significant. I'm just saying that the current state of the art limits it to a few entrepreneurs and independent souls who have ready access to organic feedstock and cheap energy or manpower. To move biofuels forward, the industry must innovate and part of that process is the sharing of information and technology. Hiding that information and technology is not doing anyone any good. Opening it up, encouraging its development, is a better option. Your argument that NADI's developers have spent a long time working on the product is, no doubt, a heartfelt one but, in the greater scheme of things, it does not entitle them to an uncontested control of that technology. Reverse engineering and extensive patent searches are a way of Western life. Every major corporation doing any sort of development is repeatedly evaluating patented technologies, seeking ideas and embellishing them to, more often than not, make the same basic product under a new patent. Once in a while, patented information is used as basis of improvement and that, like it or not, moves technology forward. So I carry no guilt in wanting to understand what is inside NADI. I want to know how it works, just like I want to know how other things work, so I can work with them comfortably, so I can repair or maintain them if need be, and one of these days, so I can improve upon maybe one of them, to make a better version, so to speak. I will definitely do a patent search on NADI and I encourage anyone with an entrepreneurial spirit or an interest in biofuels to do the same. As to copying that technology, be prepared for legal actions if you're planning on commercializing it. Better yet, change the technology to evade infringement laws, that's the western way, but if you do so, make it better. Of course, the requirements for making a NADI type product may be prohibitive and in that case, I encourage you to use the branded product or, like I'd be inclined to do, another technology altogether. As to the product itself, NADI seems to provide SVO with a nice combination of properties. At the right price I might even buy it but, unless competing products enter the market, it is highly unlikely that will ever happen. Ted Swarts Kelowna, British Columbia - Original Message - From: Neoteric Biofuels Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2001 8:45 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: NADI and Komet was Safety and the environment(waswashing machine and biodiesel) Hi Ted: First, I think this is a broad market and there is room for a range of options, biodiesel, SVO...NADI, and others, depending on markets and user needs. Second, to come up with a workable recipe for NADI took the researchers several years of RD, and their solution to certain technical shortcomings of earlier efforts to have a sort of mix and go for vegoil use in diesels, (versus the need to make methyl ester and deal with the concerns expressed in this discussion earlier), or the need to fit an SVO system, is what earned them a patent. Now, that additive is what is available for 80% local vegoil - 20% additive. Sound familiar? What is methanol? 20% input from an outside supplier, and which is 99% of the time derived from fossil natural gas. The NADI additive is far safer to ship, store, and handle than methanol and safer than handling sodium hydroxide and sodium methoxide, and is largely a natural, renewable base with small percentages of petrochemical-derived ingredients. The difference, and advantage, over making biodiesel is that it is safer and easier to use thatn the inputs needed for biodiesel, and can literally be mixed with a canoe paddle if you want, to make an almost (probably well over 90
Re: [biofuel] Biofuel v. WVO (was NADI and Komet was Safety and theenvironment(waswashing machine and biodiesel)
Greg, WVO has its place. There just isn't enough of it to supply a world with a billion or so vehicles and if there was, our planet would be one hell of a greasy place. On the scale that WVO exists, if it is used responsibly, it is a better fuel than many other alternatives and it is certainly better than fossil fuels. In general, if I had easy access to the stuff, I'd eagerly sell my Honda Civic and replace it with a diesel such as the VW Lupo, which I'd convert to exploit. No matter how you look at WVO, it exists and adding it to landfill is a shame. Using it to fuel ICEs or for heating homes (using low tech devices like the Babbington Burner) are much better applications. Ted Swarts Kelowna, British Columbia - Original Message - From: craig reece [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2001 10:48 AM Subject: [biofuel] Biofuel v. WVO (was NADI and Komet was Safety and theenvironment(waswashing machine and biodiesel) Ted, Do you have the same reservations about WVO (frenchfry oil?) Craig You wrote: I agree that biofuel, in many of its forms, has a place in the global energy matrix. But I personally see its place as limited by the ability of our planet to provide feedstock, in a sustainable way, and by the EROEI of the fuel production processes. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Biofuel v. WVO (was NADI and Komet was Safety and theenvironment(waswashing machine and biodiesel)
Craig, Sorry about calling you Greg. Ted Swarts Kelowna, British Columbia - Original Message - From: Ted Swarts [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2001 11:12 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Biofuel v. WVO (was NADI and Komet was Safety and theenvironment(waswashing machine and biodiesel) Greg, WVO has its place. There just isn't enough of it to supply a world with a billion or so vehicles and if there was, our planet would be one hell of a greasy place. On the scale that WVO exists, if it is used responsibly, it is a better fuel than many other alternatives and it is certainly better than fossil fuels. In general, if I had easy access to the stuff, I'd eagerly sell my Honda Civic and replace it with a diesel such as the VW Lupo, which I'd convert to exploit. No matter how you look at WVO, it exists and adding it to landfill is a shame. Using it to fuel ICEs or for heating homes (using low tech devices like the Babbington Burner) are much better applications. Ted Swarts Kelowna, British Columbia - Original Message - From: craig reece [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2001 10:48 AM Subject: [biofuel] Biofuel v. WVO (was NADI and Komet was Safety and theenvironment(waswashing machine and biodiesel) Ted, Do you have the same reservations about WVO (frenchfry oil?) Craig You wrote: I agree that biofuel, in many of its forms, has a place in the global energy matrix. But I personally see its place as limited by the ability of our planet to provide feedstock, in a sustainable way, and by the EROEI of the fuel production processes. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- See What You've Been Missing! Amazing Wireless Video Camera. Click here http://us.click.yahoo.com/75YKVC/7.PDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: NADI and Komet was Safety and the environment (waswashing machine and biodiesel)
Dear Edward, In general, my personal attraction to biofuel is the independance it gives those who have the will and resources to make it, as compared to its potential as a widespread (global) replacement for gasoline or diesel, which I personally believe is limited. With this in mind, what appeals to me as a consumer of biofuel technology, are processes and products that enable rather than bind. Although I'd prefer to build my own equipment and systems, I'm not obsessed with reinventing the wheel and if some company can provide me with superior equipment at a reasonable cost, I'll consider purchasing it. But what I don't want is to lock myself into an arrangement where I'm dependant upon that same vendor for an ongoing supply of anything much less an additive which may be reasonably produced by myself. What I am getting at is this: Why would I use your NADI additive when I can create my own? Why would I put myself in a position where I'm eternally dependant upon a supplier of that product? Such dependance grates me. This isn't to say that many of the products your company provides are not wanted and needed for they nodoubt are. As to the NADI additive itself, you said it is largely composed of renewable and natural products. This statement implies that some of its ingredients are not renewable or not natural. What are these other ingredients? Is this product patented and if so what is the patent number? Over the past several months, I've appreciated your contributions to this forum and I hope you will not interpret my questions or comments as offensive, for they are not meant to be. Ted Swarts Kelowna, British Columbia - Original Message - From: Neoteric Biofuels Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, November 30, 2001 11:35 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: NADI and Komet was Safety and the environment (waswashing machine and biodiesel) Hi - It is not magic, it is at least and probably more natural than biodiesel (with its usual 20% or so usually natural gas-derived methanol 'content'), and it is made by a reputable, long-established company that also makes methyl ester and many other fuel and lubricant products including many from renewable resources. The final product is 80% vegoil (rapeseed oil, normally), and 20% of the NADI additive, which is largely composed, itself, of renewable and natural products. Yes, we sell it, and the presses, etc. The integrated whole is what may make it worthwhile in a given region, that is to say, making cold pressed oils, contract pressing, sales of a wide range of specialty oils to food, nutraceutical, pharmaceutical markets, and sale or feeding of the presscake to livessotck (adding value, and presscake which is of higher value than that from solvent extraction facilities, since there is more oil left in it and it also has come from a cold press). It is an interesting option for some regions, and definitely something a bit different than trying to purify glycerine and sell it, or recover methanol, worry about waste disposal, etc. Is it competitive with diesel or biodiesel? That depends on the market and the prices of those products. In the US and Canada, it is more than commercial biodiesel, but the price come down at some point. In other markets, it may or may not be competitive,have to check individually. It does allow the producer to make an alternative, mostly natural diesel fuel or additive for diesel fuel without producing biodiesel (ie, no methanol, no glycerine, no sodium methoxide, etc.) by simple mechanical mixing with local (80%) oil. Some oils may or may not be suitable, and we'd have to check on them individually if not rapeseed oil. Please do contact me off list by emailing directly, I only wanted to mention it in the context of the discussion on safety concerns, methanol, etc. Regards, Edward Beggs www.biofuels.ca From: Manolo Rolan [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 17:53:21 + To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] Re: NADI and Komet was Safety and the environment (was washing machine and biodiesel) :-0 sorry if it sounds a like a stupid question, and sorry if this question is not specific enough but ... witch kind of magic stuff is that? you sell it? is real natural diesel? sorry but i couldn't wait without asking thanks Manuel Rolan Valencia, Spain Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Universal Inkjet Refill Kit $29.95 Refill any ink cartridge for less! Includes black and color ink. http://us.click.yahoo.com/kL8TtD/MkNDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM
[biofuel] Ignorance Is Bliss
Ignorance Is Bliss A recent article in Newsweek boldly stated: Yes, the US can live without Saudi oil, and even keep its SUVs Read it and weep at: http://www.msnbc.com/news/655969.asp?pne=msn Ted Swarts Kelowna, British Columbia [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Universal Inkjet Refill Kit $29.95 Refill any ink cartridge for less! Includes black and color ink. http://us.click.yahoo.com/bAmslD/MkNDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Animal Fat to Biofuel
Saria Bio-Industries of Germany has built the world's first animal biodiesel plant with a capacity to produce about 10 million liters per year. Cow carcasses are the primary feedstock, from which fat and meal are extracted and separated. The fat is converted into biodiesel using a process that yields clear and odorless fuel and the meal is packaged into pellets to be used as a solid fuel to be burnt for thermal energy. I'm unaware of any urls related to this subject which I found this morning in the print edition of the Vancouver Province. Ted Swarts Kelowna, British Columbia [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Electricity From Trees
Electricity From Trees October 26, 2001 Biotechnology may be our planets best hope for developing sustainable energy sources and all sorts of interesting research is taking place in this realm but one idea advocated by Bernard Wiltholt of Zurich's Swiss Institute Of Technology may very well give new meaning to the concept of green energy. At a recent scientific conference in Berlin, Wiltholt suggested that trees might be genetically engineered to produce electricity using the bioprocesses of electric eels (source: Vancouver Province, October 25, 2001, page A33c). Without access to any literature referencing this technology, I'm reluctant to endorse the idea but it is easy to imagine just how hopeful or hopeless it actually is. Plant a couple of eTrees in your yard and voila, all your power needs are fulfilled, assuming you can find the damn power outlets, of course. Ted Swarts Kelowna, British Columbia [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- FREE COLLEGE MONEY CLICK HERE to search 600,000 scholarships! http://us.click.yahoo.com/Pv4pGD/4m7CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
