Re: [Biofuel] Using an email discussion list
Andres Yver wrote: Phorum is good software, open source. The 5.07 beta is really powerful. snip Hello Andres, Making the decision to choose mailman was a difficult one. We did not know about Phorum when we made the decision, however; we were very worried about security at the time due to the fact that Yahoo! had proved to be very unreliable and insecure. Mailman is use by hundreds of mailing lists and is known to be secure. Unfortunately we did not know anything about the security of alternatives that were considered. Mailman is great! It's a good choice. Maybe someone will write an interface so listees can post from a web page. thanks, andres ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Using an email discussion list
I don't know if the wwia.org server can handle phorum, which is a php powered discussion group program. It works very well, in my experience. Would something like this make it easier to manage the list rather than emails? I find it difficult to follow discussions and topics the way things are set up this way. (I suppose I could learn?) Just a suggestion. JEFF Phorum is good software, open source. The 5.07 beta is really powerful. It allows lists such as this to have a web interface that arranges subjects and threads in a visually meaningful manner, yet retains full list functionality for those who prefer email. The integration is pretty seamless. Users choose what works best for them. If this were a democracy, i would vote yes to having a web interface. Don't forget the many people who only have internet access at the library or cyber-cafe. 2 pesos from south of the equator... andres ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Using an email discussion list
To be honest, this is the way I feel. Greg H. The only problem with political posts is that they can disagree with how we feel about a given issue. My first response to the Kerry Poll results was that American politics are not the business of the rest of the world. However, this is simply not true. What we do impacts a very large number of other people who share the same planet, (arguably, all of them) and the leadership of our country matters to these people, even if they have no right to vote in our election as we do. Many of these people are our friends, and as such, we should be listening to them, even if we see the issues in an entirely different light. They want us to do what is right and good. They want us to take a responsible leadership role. There's nothing wrong with them telling us so. I encourage you to develop some respect for the differing political views posted on this forum. You and I don't have to agree with them, but we Americans shouldn't be dismissive either. Personally, I don't care for EITHER candidate, so I'm going to hold my nose when I cast my ballot. . . Concerning the propriety of such posts on the biofuels list, it's been a long established principle that these belong here. That is not negotiable. If you and I don't like them, we don't have to read them. robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.authorhouse.com/BookStore/ItemDetail.aspx?bookid=9782 Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Using an email discussion list
Phorum is good software, open source. The 5.07 beta is really powerful. It allows lists such as this to have a web interface that arranges subjects and threads in a visually meaningful manner, yet retains full list functionality for those who prefer email. The integration is pretty seamless. Users choose what works best for them. If this were a democracy, i would vote yes to having a web interface. Don't forget the many people who only have internet access at the library or cyber-cafe. 2 pesos from south of the equator... andres Hello Andres, Making the decision to choose mailman was a difficult one. We did not know about Phorum when we made the decision, however; we were very worried about security at the time due to the fact that Yahoo! had proved to be very unreliable and insecure. Mailman is use by hundreds of mailing lists and is known to be secure. Unfortunately we did not know anything about the security of alternatives that were considered. --- Martin Klingensmith nnytech.net infoarchive.net ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Using an email discussion list
- Original Message - From: robert luis rabello [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, September 11, 2004 00:12 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Using an email discussion list The only problem with political posts is that they can disagree with how we feel about a given issue. My first response to the Kerry Poll results was that American politics are not the business of the rest of the world. However, this is simply not true. What we do impacts a very large number of other people who share the same planet, (arguably, all of them) and the leadership of our country matters to these people, even if they have no right to vote in our election as we do. And the opposite is true to. What the leadership (official or un-official leadership ) of other countries do, affects the US as well.What they do, also affects the US as well as the planet.Matters of foreign policy of any nation ( and/or religious belief ) affect everyone on the planet, should we ( the people - not the leadership, of the US ) be telling them what to do as well?That would be nice, but, totaly unrealistic especially if the other leaders decide that we are heathen, for stupid things like were we live, or what religion we want to believe in. In theory, it would be nice if the people of a country/state/nation told their leaders what they want, and the leaders should then follow through, but, unfortunately, it doesn't happen that way ( you know the saying You can't please all of the people all of the time? ).In some cases the leaders tell the people what the people want, or the leaders just tell the people what needs to be done and if it isn't done death or worse is the result.At other times the leader finds out what he/she thinks the people want, and does it, even if it is something totaly opposite the following week. Many of these people are our friends, and as such, we should be listening to them, even if we see the issues in an entirely different light. They want us to do what is right and good. They want us to take a responsible leadership role. There's nothing wrong with them telling us so. Granted, and I have no problem with that, as long as it is in the proper time and place.Were I on a international political list I would not only expect it, I would encourage exchange of political ideas. I encourage you to develop some respect for the differing political views posted on this forum. You and I don't have to agree with them, but we Americans shouldn't be dismissive either. Personally, I don't care for EITHER candidate, so I'm going to hold my nose when I cast my ballot. . . I have respect for political views, I just don't believe this is the proper place to be doing laundry.I don't care for some things that both of the major candidates have done, the only difference, is that one has more of my respect than the other. Concerning the propriety of such posts on the biofuels list, it's been a long established principle that these belong here. That is not negotiable. If you and I don't like them, we don't have to read them. I know, and that's why I try and delete them.Sometimes I fail, and react, when I'm at my worse.Unless I really am careful, and know my mood is bad, I am a fish that is hooked by Troll Bait .Other times it is only a simple annoyance to the reason I joined the list, and is just deleted. Greg H. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Using an email discussion list
To be honest, this is the way I feel. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Allan De Groot [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 10:07 Frankly I consider myself a Centrist, but by comparison to the foaming at the mouth leftist/liberals I may SEEM to be right wing... an appearance purely created by their skewed view of things... If someone posts stuff like that I'm going to reply to it. and if those posts are allowed and contrary views aren't the simply solution is don't post political BS either from the left or the right. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Using an email discussion list
powered discussion group program. It works very well, in my experience. Would something like this make it easier to manage the list rather than emails? I find it difficult to follow discussions and topics the way things are set up this way. (I suppose I could learn?) Just a suggestion. JEFF _ Get ready for school! Find articles, homework help and more in the Back to School Guide! http://special.msn.com/network/04backtoschool.armx ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Using an email discussion list
not copied over). It was sent to my registered e-Mail address. I then went into my options and changed to digest (which obviously hasn't kicked in yet) as well as changing my password. David From: grahams [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Using an email discussion list Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 14:25:59 -0400 At 08:06 PM 9/8/2004, you wrote: There is a Daily Digest option, a single email containing all that day's messages. But Daily Digests are not a good way of doing it, they only look like a good way at first, but they make the information less accessible, not more.. If want to choose this option anyway, how do I go about it since I am already subscribed? I don't want to subscribe twice. Do I have/need a password? Caroline ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ _ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Using an email discussion list
I don't know if the wwia.org server can handle phorum, which is a php powered discussion group program. It works very well, in my experience. Web-based. Would something like this make it easier to manage the list rather than emails? No, it's just what we don't want, I did say why not. Did you read the original message in this thread? http://wwia.org/pipermail/biofuel/Week-of-Mon-20040906/08.html [Biofuel] Using an email discussion list I find it difficult to follow discussions and topics the way things are set up this way. I think it's you that's not set up right. Sorry, not trying to get at you. If you read the message at the link above, and follow the links and read that too, I think you'll see what I mean. (I suppose I could learn?) I really think you should, it's worth it, and not just for the sake of this list. Not difficult. Best wishes Keith Just a suggestion. JEFF ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
[Biofuel] Using an email discussion list
email-only! No option for the Web only - no email preference available at Yahoo. We're sorry about this, the administrators discussed it a lot. One major reason is that there still is no good email list software available that also offers a fully functional web board interface, where messages can be sent, read and replied to, as at Yahoo. We have a Web archives (two archives!) where you can read messages and search for previous information, but you can't send messages from there. It was decided that moving the list away from Yahoo outweighed the disadvantages of losing the Web interface. Also, using the Web as a discussion forum interface has its disadvantages. Web forums might be more sociable, arguably, but on average, discussion is more chatty and superficial, the noise to signal ratio is higher, there's less direction and development, and the users don't build up their own information resources - it's a bit like having no memory. The exception, well-run web boards that overcome these disadvantages, are in the minority, and often have a paid staff to manage them, or you have to pay a subscription to join. Neither of these options is open to us here. By comparison, email discussions are usually meatier, and where it's subject specific as this list is, you can't help building up a good personal knowledge-base - which is why we're all here, after all. But it needs some technique. We'd argue that if you're not prepared to learn the few simple skills required to handle an email list well, will you be prepared to learn the skills needed to make your own fuel well? People sometimes complain that they're being swamped or flooded with hundreds of emails a day. But the Biofuel list isn't a high volume list, which would have 200-300 emails a day, just medium volume with about 30 or so messages a day. If you can't handle this list as an information resource then you should improve your techniques, because a whole world of knowledge is passing you by. There is a Daily Digest option, a single email containing all that day's messages. But Daily Digests are not a good way of doing it, they only look like a good way at first, but they make the information less accessible, not more.. You need an email account that delivers email to your computer via a good email program (eg Eudora, or Outlook Express if you're careful about viruses). Then you have email filters that you can set so they automatically send mails on different subjects to different mailboxes - no flooded in-box. There are also search functions you can use to find information in what will soon grow into a very useful database on your own hard disk. Filters and separate mailboxes are essential to handling mailing lists properly, and perhaps the Internet in general. Now you have a memory. When you ask questions they'll be better informed and you'll get better answers. You'll be more willing to answer other people's questions and to contribute generally. You benefit, everyone benefits, as a community we become more effective in advancing biofuels issues, and we all live happily ever after. Please have a look at this previous message on handling email, it might help you: http://archive.nnytech.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/21700/ Here's another way that a list member recommended - good! I'm accustomed to the e-mail system and simply file messages I want to keep in an archival folder. Everything else goes in the trash after reading because I know it's all archived for my benefit, and accessible when the need arises. (Thank you, thank you, thank you!) And yet another way from another member - BAD! My solution is to monitor the in-box regularly printing those items of special interest (for a resource file), and deleting those postings which are not of specific interest. Printing??? Ulp... You can't grep dead trees. He hasn't realised what a computer does, and he hasn't discovered archives yet either. Another point that he misses, which the previous member didn't miss, is that it's impossible to pre-judge which information will turn out to be useful and which not. On a computer it just doesn't matter - the more information there is in your database the more sheer depth it will have, while it won't make searching any slower, and current-model computer hard disks have plenty of space, 40Gb and more. (That's equivalent to 40,000 to 50,000 books.) Many members were on the Web only - no email option at Yahoo, but many other members are email adepts. Can we all try to help each other find our feet? See also: http://www.webfoot.com/advice/email.top.html A Beginner's Guide to Effective Email Thanks! Best wishes Keith Addison Journey to Forever KYOTO Pref., Japan http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel list owner ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
Re: [Biofuel] Using an email discussion list
Two comments At 09:06 AM 9/9/04 +0900, you wrote: People sometimes complain that they're being swamped or flooded with hundreds of emails a day. But the Biofuel list isn't a high volume list, which would have 200-300 emails a day, just medium volume with about 30 or so messages a day. If you can't handle this list as an information resource then you should improve your techniques, because a whole world of knowledge is passing you by. 30 messages? since when? I've been on email only since I subscribed and I'm not sure I've gotten 30 messages since july... This is a slow list traffic wise if people can't deal with this list's traffic they certainly don't have time to make their own dinner let alone their own fuel. AllanD ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Using an email discussion list
Two comments At 09:06 AM 9/9/04 +0900, you wrote: People sometimes complain that they're being swamped or flooded with hundreds of emails a day. But the Biofuel list isn't a high volume list, which would have 200-300 emails a day, just medium volume with about 30 or so messages a day. If you can't handle this list as an information resource then you should improve your techniques, because a whole world of knowledge is passing you by. 30 messages? since when? I've been on email only since I subscribed and I'm not sure I've gotten 30 messages since july... This is a slow list traffic wise if people can't deal with this list's traffic they certainly don't have time to make their own dinner let alone their own fuel. AllanD Slow? Not sure where you've been, but since the end of July there have been 965 messages, average 25 a day, slightly lower than usual. Not just 30 total. It says here according to Yahoo that your email account was set to 'No Email'. Let's see if it's still like that... Yep - No email, since 6/17/2004 . Maybe my message was meant just for you? :-) Anyway, now you're on email, but you'll still have time for dinner. Best wishes Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Using an email discussion list
One thing many will notice straight away about the new list - email-only! No option for the Web only - no email preference available at Yahoo. We're sorry about this, the administrators discussed it a lot. One major reason is that there still is no good email list software available that also offers a fully functional web board interface, where messages can be sent, read and replied to, as at Yahoo. I believe Communigate Pro might do this but I haven't played with it in years, so I can't say for sure. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Using an email discussion list
Keith; I don't want you to take this as my being critical, about the new email format, but... I really did like the daily message list, to the Yahoo Group, as it keeps me from having to read all the posts, if the subject line didn't appeal to my interests (political rants, disagreements between members, etc.). Now, it would appear, I will be getting every email that comes in, and if this new format follows the same number of daily posts, I'll have about 25-30 emails a day, to sort thru. To be fair, I will sit back and give this a trial, I may be over pessimistic in what I foresee. Don Faulkner ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Using an email discussion list
In that case Yahoo changed my settings for me and I never checked. I just thought it was a slow list like the other two alt fuel lists I'm on. BTW, can we keep the political rhetoric to a minimum? I found that world wide Bush Vs Kerry poll post to be bordering on the offensive (though more amusing to my finely tuned BS detector) Frankly I consider myself a Centrist, but by comparison to the foaming at the mouth leftist/liberals I may SEEM to be right wing... an appearance purely created by their skewed view of things... If someone posts stuff like that I'm going to reply to it. and if those posts are allowed and contrary views aren't the simply solution is don't post political BS either from the left or the right. AD At 09:22 PM 9/9/04 +0900, you wrote: Hello AllanD Two comments At 09:06 AM 9/9/04 +0900, you wrote: People sometimes complain that they're being swamped or flooded with hundreds of emails a day. But the Biofuel list isn't a high volume list, which would have 200-300 emails a day, just medium volume with about 30 or so messages a day. If you can't handle this list as an information resource then you should improve your techniques, because a whole world of knowledge is passing you by. 30 messages? since when? I've been on email only since I subscribed and I'm not sure I've gotten 30 messages since july... This is a slow list traffic wise if people can't deal with this list's traffic they certainly don't have time to make their own dinner let alone their own fuel. AllanD Slow? Not sure where you've been, but since the end of July there have been 965 messages, average 25 a day, slightly lower than usual. Not just 30 total. It says here according to Yahoo that your email account was set to 'No Email'. Let's see if it's still like that... Yep - No email, since 6/17/2004. Maybe my message was meant just for you? :-) Anyway, now you're on email, but you'll still have time for dinner. Best wishes Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Using an email discussion list
Keith Addison wrote: One thing many will notice straight away about the new list - email-only! No option for the Web only - no email preference available at Yahoo. We're sorry about this, the administrators discussed it a lot. One major reason is that there still is no good email list software available that also offers a fully functional web board interface, where messages can be sent, read and replied to, as at Yahoo. I believe Communigate Pro might do this but I haven't played with it in years, so I can't say for sure. Martin will know that, I don't. Best wishes Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Using an email discussion list
Keith; I don't want you to take this as my being critical, about the new email format, but... It's not new, it's always been the standard. The Web only interface was an add on. I really did like the daily message list, to the Yahoo Group, as it keeps me from having to read all the posts, if the subject line didn't appeal to my interests (political rants, disagreements between members, etc.). Now, it would appear, I will be getting every email that comes in, and if this new format follows the same number of daily posts, I'll have about 25-30 emails a day, to sort thru. We get 800-1,000. To be fair, I will sit back and give this a trial, I may be over pessimistic in what I foresee. Don, I think you should have another read of the message you're replying to. It's here: http://wwia.org/pipermail/biofuel/Week-of-Mon-20040906/08.html [Biofuel] Using an email discussion list There's information there, advice, resources. Without my being critical, viewed as an information resource, you've been wasting it. You can't give it a fair trial if you go on using the same technique, or lack of one. Did you check this link that's reffed there for instance? http://archive.nnytech.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/21700/ Do yourself a favour Don. Best wishes Keith Don Faulkner ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Using an email discussion list
There is a Daily Digest option, a single email containing all that day's messages. But Daily Digests are not a good way of doing it, they only look like a good way at first, but they make the information less accessible, not more.. If want to choose this option anyway, how do I go about it since I am already subscribed? I don't want to subscribe twice. Do I have/need a password? Caroline ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Using an email discussion list
There is a Daily Digest option, a single email containing all that day's messages. But Daily Digests are not a good way of doing it, they only look like a good way at first, but they make the information less accessible, not more.. If want to choose this option anyway, how do I go about it since I am already subscribed? I don't want to subscribe twice. Do I have/need a password? Caroline In the Welcome message you received it says: If you ever want to unsubscribe or change your options (eg, switch to or from digest mode, change your password, etc.), visit your subscription page at: Followed by a link. Click on the link. Or, just go to the url at the end of each message, this one: ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel You can change it there, and you can also access your preferences from there. Considering all of which, I would recommend that you read the message you're responding to again, and give it some study. You won't be sorry. It's here: http://wwia.org/pipermail/biofuel/Week-of-Mon-20040906/08.html [Biofuel] Using an email discussion list Best Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
