Composting Toilets was Re: [biofuel] Musings about toilet tissue
Composting toilets resolve water issues and enhance soils. As for paper, better recycled cardboard boxes or renewable annuals. In a perfect world nothing but lumber should be coming directly from trees. Todd Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: Composting Toilets was Re: [biofuel] Musings about toilet tissue
Composting toilets resolve water issues and enhance soils. That's exactly right. That's what we have to do. I prefer the restore to enhance though - the stuff goes back to where it came from, according to the natural cycle. Flush toilets break that cycle, like many other things we do. That broken cycle is right at the root of so many of our problems, or even all of them, I think sometimes. As for paper, better recycled cardboard boxes or renewable annuals. Most paper used to come from old rags and stuff. Seems the problem is that the mills aren't geared to handle anything but wood, though there are plenty of other (better) options, and they're under little or no real pressure to change. In a perfect world nothing but lumber should be coming directly from trees. Well, a good forest can produce a great variety of products in large quantities (including energy), and still remain a good forest, nice place for a walk, full of wildlife and stuff. No need at all to cut the thing down, that's a really dumb thing to do. Especially to turn it into paper. Best Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ Todd Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: Composting Toilets was Re: [biofuel] Musings about toilet tissue
Er, sorry! Odd double post - how the hell did I do that? :-( Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ Composting toilets resolve water issues and enhance soils. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Musings about toilet tissue
I've had some thoughts running about in my head for a bit, and thought that I would pass them on. Perhaps it isn't strictly on-topic, but it illustrates how small changes in a population's lifestyle can have major implications on a global scale. One thing that I have noticed is that in the USA and in Northern Europe the norm is to clean ones butt with toilet paper. In the Middle East, Africa, India, and I believe in China, the norm is to wash with water as needed. Probably the healthiest of the two methods is to wash. Now, consider that there are over a billion Indians and over a billion Chinese. I can't begin to fathom the implications that at a rate of say one roll of toilet tissue per person per week, what would happen if these two billion people started using toilet tissue. The logistics of meeting the requirement of providing two billion additional rolls of toilet tissue per week and its impact on sewage treatment, paper production, trees for paper, energy use, etc., are mind boggling. Also, how much better it would be for all of these reasons if the paper users of the world were converted to washers! Maybe one person's use or nonuse of something like toilet paper doesn't make a lot of difference, but when it is multiplied out by the entire population, what a huge difference. To bring this more on-topic, consider the implications if the fleet mileage of the vehicles used in the USA, for example, were raised by just a few miles per gallon, multiplied by the millions of vehicles in use -- well, it would have a similar huge impact on total oil consumption. Derek W. Hargis [EMAIL PROTECTED] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Musings about toilet tissue
Derek, In the same vein have you ever thought how much water would be used if the whole world switched to the french way and everyone used bidets. Just think what a market there would be for portable water purification units and steam distillation units in some countries. Mind you if every car was fitted with a T.P. by-pass filter sure quite a number of million trees would die as well but what an improvement in air conditions in most of the worlds major cities. B.r., David - Original Message - From: dhargis1 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2001 9:22 AM Subject: [biofuel] Musings about toilet tissue I've had some thoughts running about in my head for a bit, and thought that I would pass them on. Perhaps it isn't strictly on-topic, but it illustrates how small changes in a population's lifestyle can have major implications on a global scale. One thing that I have noticed is that in the USA and in Northern Europe the norm is to clean ones butt with toilet paper. In the Middle East, Africa, India, and I believe in China, the norm is to wash with water as needed. Probably the healthiest of the two methods is to wash. Now, consider that there are over a billion Indians and over a billion Chinese. I can't begin to fathom the implications that at a rate of say one roll of toilet tissue per person per week, what would happen if these two billion people started using toilet tissue. The logistics of meeting the requirement of providing two billion additional rolls of toilet tissue per week and its impact on sewage treatment, paper production, trees for paper, energy use, etc., are mind boggling. Also, how much better it would be for all of these reasons if the paper users of the world were converted to washers! Maybe one person's use or nonuse of something like toilet paper doesn't make a lot of difference, but when it is multiplied out by the entire population, what a huge difference. To bring this more on-topic, consider the implications if the fleet mileage of the vehicles used in the USA, for example, were raised by just a few miles per gallon, multiplied by the millions of vehicles in use -- well, it would have a similar huge impact on total oil consumption. Derek W. Hargis [EMAIL PROTECTED] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Musings about toilet tissue
For economy, use both sides Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Musings about toilet tissue
Hi Derek I've had some thoughts running about in my head for a bit, and thought that I would pass them on. Perhaps it isn't strictly on-topic, but it illustrates how small changes in a population's lifestyle can have major implications on a global scale. One thing that I have noticed is that in the USA and in Northern Europe the norm is to clean ones butt with toilet paper. In the Middle East, Africa, India, and I believe in China, the norm is to wash with water as needed. Probably the healthiest of the two methods is to wash. Now, consider that there are over a billion Indians and over a billion Chinese. I can't begin to fathom the implications that at a rate of say one roll of toilet tissue per person per week, what would happen if these two billion people started using toilet tissue. I'm rather alarmed by the fact that, in China at least, they're increasingly using flush toilets, surely the most wasteful device ever invented. And this at a time when water is increasingly being seen as THE scarce resource (not oil), over which future wars are likely to be fought (again, not oil). Along with the immense waste of soil fertility and resulting pollution. Truly insane. This in a country that's maintained its soil fertility and fed its growing population for 40 centuries. And they're far from alone. There's some background here: http://journeytoforever.org/compost_humanure.html Humanure Also I think toilet paper is increasingly made of recycled paper. Which is no reason to waste it. The logistics of meeting the requirement of providing two billion additional rolls of toilet tissue per week and its impact on sewage treatment, paper production, trees for paper, energy use, etc., are mind boggling. Also, how much better it would be for all of these reasons if the paper users of the world were converted to washers! Maybe one person's use or nonuse of something like toilet paper doesn't make a lot of difference, No, but it does make SOME difference, however slight - the ocean's made of drops. I think it's helpful to say that anyone and everyone can and does make a difference. It seems to me that things don't work very well unless or until they start working at ground level, at the level of individuals making a difference. But I know you also see it that way. but when it is multiplied out by the entire population, what a huge difference. To bring this more on-topic, consider the implications if the fleet mileage of the vehicles used in the USA, for example, were raised by just a few miles per gallon, multiplied by the millions of vehicles in use -- well, it would have a similar huge impact on total oil consumption. Yes! I think that's Dick Carlstein's point with the mister/fogger/Novak's baby. If you haven't picked up on that, by the way, it's here: Ron Novak's Do-It-Yourself Water Injection System http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/ethanol_motherearth/me3.html Best wishes Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ Derek W. Hargis [EMAIL PROTECTED] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Musings about toilet tissue
For economy, use both sides :-) And for two-ply? Separate and then use both sides? Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Musings about toilet tissue
Gee Think it may be a case of oh shit - Original Message - From: Keith Addison To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2001 7:19 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Musings about toilet tissue For economy, use both sides :-) And for two-ply? Separate and then use both sides? Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
