Re: [biofuel] Re: Fuel-hungry China goes far afield to secure oil
Hi apparently there is a thread in the biovuel group about the prisners we have in cuba (Gitmo) I thought you might enjoy pretty heavy stuff for a bunch of grease monkeys. On Tuesday, Feb 10, 2004, at 12:29 US/Eastern, John Hayes wrote: Gustl Steiner-Zehender wrote: And just so we don't start getting puffed up here in the states (about german concentration camps) ed. we need to remember that we had concentration camps for the Japanese here and we considered them completely legal. Pick your enemy, persecute them and lock them up. Sad commentary on we humans. Umm. No. We did it, but it wwas *NOT* considered legal. In Ex Parte Endo, Mitsuye Endo first complied with the internment order, then filed a writ of habeas corpus against this illegal detainment. The U.S. Supreme Court ruled in favor of Endo on Dec. 18th, 1994 and ordered Endos release; shortly thereafter, the U.S. government ended Japanese American interment. Specifically, in the majority opinion Justice Douglas wrote A citizen who is concededly loyal presents no problem of espionage or sabotage. Loyalty is a matter of the heart and mind, not of race, creed, or color. He who is loyal is by definition not a spy or a saboteur. When the power to detain is derived from the power to protect the war effort against espionage and sabotage, detention which has no relationship to that objective is unauthorized. Moreover, in a concuring opinion Justice Murphy added: I join in the opinion of the Court, but I am of the view that detention in Relocation Centers of persons of Japanese ancestry regardless of loyalty is not only unauthorized by Congress or the Executive but is another example of the unconstitutional resort to racism inherent in the entire evacuation program. As stated more fully in my dissenting opinion in Korematsu v. United States, ante, p. 233, racial discrimination of this nature bears no reasonable relation to military necessity and is utterly foreign to the ideals and traditions of the American people. Thus, while we may have done it, it most decidedly was *NOT* legal. Cheers. John Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM - ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links First they came for the hackers. But I never did anything illegal with my computer, so I didn't speak up. Then they came for the pornographers. But I thought there was too much smut on the Internet anyway, so I didn't speak up. Then they came for the anonymous remailers. But a lot of nasty stuff gets sent from anon.penet.fi, so I didn't speak up. Then they came for the encryption users. But I could never figure out how to work PGP anyway, so I didn't speak up. Then they came for me. And by that time there was no one left to speak up. Alara Rogers, Aleph Press [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Fuel-hungry China goes far afield to secure oil
x-charset ISO-8859-1--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Yves vd hoeven [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hundreds of thousands of Falun Gong practitioners have been illegally arrested and detained. Over 100,000 have been illegally sent to labor camps without trials. Pshaw! They were arrested, detained and sent to labor camps completely legaly Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ /x-charset
Re[2]: [biofuel] Re: Fuel-hungry China goes far afield to secure oil
x-charset ISO-8859-1Hallo Yves, Tuesday, 10 February, 2004, 08:31:48, you wrote: ...couple of snips... Yvh It just depends on the perspective. The Nazis judged the Yvh concentration camps in 1942 as a normal part of their system and Yvh therefore completely legal. And just so we don't start getting puffed up here in the states we need to remember that we had concentration camps for the Japanese here and we considered them completely legal. Pick your enemy, persecute them and lock them up. Sad commentary on we humans. Happy Happy, Gustl -- Je mehr wir haben, desto mehr fordert Gott von uns. Mitglied-Team AMIGA ICQ: 22211253-Gustli The safest road to Hell is the gradual one - the gentle slope, soft underfoot, without sudden turnings, without milestones, without signposts. C. S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters Es gibt Wahrheiten, die so sehr auf der Straà liegen, daà?sie gerade deshalb von der gewëænlichen Welt nicht gesehen oder wenigstens nicht erkannt werden. Those who dance are considered insane by those who can't hear the music. George Carlin Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ /x-charset
Re: [biofuel] Re: Fuel-hungry China goes far afield to secure oil
x-charset windows-1252Gustl Steiner-Zehender wrote: And just so we don't start getting puffed up here in the states we need to remember that we had concentration camps for the Japanese here and we considered them completely legal. Pick your enemy, persecute them and lock them up. Sad commentary on we humans. Umm. No. We did it, but it wwas *NOT* considered legal. In Ex Parte Endo, Mitsuye Endo first complied with the internment order, then filed a writ of habeas corpus against this illegal detainment. The U.S. Supreme Court ruled in favor of Endo on Dec. 18th, 1994 and ordered Endos release; shortly thereafter, the U.S. government ended Japanese American interment. Specifically, in the majority opinion Justice Douglas wrote A citizen who is concededly loyal presents no problem of espionage or sabotage. Loyalty is a matter of the heart and mind, not of race, creed, or color. He who is loyal is by definition not a spy or a saboteur. When the power to detain is derived from the power to protect the war effort against espionage and sabotage, detention which has no relationship to that objective is unauthorized. Moreover, in a concuring opinion Justice Murphy added: I join in the opinion of the Court, but I am of the view that detention in Relocation Centers of persons of Japanese ancestry regardless of loyalty is not only unauthorized by Congress or the Executive but is another example of the unconstitutional resort to racism inherent in the entire evacuation program. As stated more fully in my dissenting opinion in Korematsu v. United States, ante, p. 233, racial discrimination of this nature bears no reasonable relation to military necessity and is utterly foreign to the ideals and traditions of the American people. Thus, while we may have done it, it most decidedly was *NOT* legal. Cheers. John Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ /x-charset
FW: Re[2]: [biofuel] Re: Fuel-hungry China goes far afield to secure oil
x-charset ISO-8859-1And don't forget the enemy combatents currently lockup up at Guantanamo. No Geneva Convention rights, no access to their families, counsel or any legal system. Perfectly legal and with the complete support of many Americans. john -Original Message- From: Gustl Steiner-Zehender [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2004 9:49 AM To: Yves vd hoeven Subject: Re[2]: [biofuel] Re: Fuel-hungry China goes far afield to secure oil Hallo Yves, Tuesday, 10 February, 2004, 08:31:48, you wrote: ...couple of snips... Yvh It just depends on the perspective. The Nazis judged the Yvh concentration camps in 1942 as a normal part of their system and Yvh therefore completely legal. And just so we don't start getting puffed up here in the states we need to remember that we had concentration camps for the Japanese here and we considered them completely legal. Pick your enemy, persecute them and lock them up. Sad commentary on we humans. Happy Happy, Gustl -- Je mehr wir haben, desto mehr fordert Gott von uns. Mitglied-Team AMIGA ICQ: 22211253-Gustli The safest road to Hell is the gradual one - the gentle slope, soft underfoot, without sudden turnings, without milestones, without signposts. C. S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters Es gibt Wahrheiten, die so sehr auf der Straà liegen, daà?sie gerade deshalb von der gewëænlichen Welt nicht gesehen oder wenigstens nicht erkannt werden. Those who dance are considered insane by those who can't hear the music. George Carlin Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ /x-charset
Re: [biofuel] Re: Fuel-hungry China goes far afield to secure oil
John, Are you sure that you have the dates right, if so, the court ruling must be a joke. To rule 1994 against the second world war concentration camps for the Japanese in US. -)) If it was dec. 1944, the shortly ending of internment, must have been close or at the end of WWII. LOL Hakan At 18:29 10/02/2004, you wrote: Gustl Steiner-Zehender wrote: And just so we don't start getting puffed up here in the states we need to remember that we had concentration camps for the Japanese here and we considered them completely legal. Pick your enemy, persecute them and lock them up. Sad commentary on we humans. Umm. No. We did it, but it wwas *NOT* considered legal. In Ex Parte Endo, Mitsuye Endo first complied with the internment order, then filed a writ of habeas corpus against this illegal detainment. The U.S. Supreme Court ruled in favor of Endo on Dec. 18th, 1994 and ordered Endo's release; shortly thereafter, the U.S. government ended Japanese American interment. Specifically, in the majority opinion Justice Douglas wrote A citizen who is concededly loyal presents no problem of espionage or sabotage. Loyalty is a matter of the heart and mind, not of race, creed, or color. He who is loyal is by definition not a spy or a saboteur. When the power to detain is derived from the power to protect the war effort against espionage and sabotage, detention which has no relationship to that objective is unauthorized. Moreover, in a concuring opinion Justice Murphy added: I join in the opinion of the Court, but I am of the view that detention in Relocation Centers of persons of Japanese ancestry regardless of loyalty is not only unauthorized by Congress or the Executive but is another example of the unconstitutional resort to racism inherent in the entire evacuation program. As stated more fully in my dissenting opinion in Korematsu v. United States, ante, p. 233, racial discrimination of this nature bears no reasonable relation to military necessity and is utterly foreign to the ideals and traditions of the American people. Thus, while we may have done it, it most decidedly was *NOT* legal. Cheers. John Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Fuel-hungry China goes far afield to secure oil
Hakan Falk wrote: John, Are you sure that you have the dates right, if so, the court ruling must be a joke. To rule 1994 against the second world war concentration camps for the Japanese in US. -)) If it was dec. 1944, the shortly ending of internment, must have been close or at the end of WWII. LOL Oops. The rather egregious typo is entirely my fault. Yes, that should read Dec 18th *1944*. Given that VJ day was still 8 months off and the US was still considering an invasion of Japan, I find it telling that the Supreme Court did the right thing *before* the war was over. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Fuel-hungry China goes far afield to secure oil
x-charset ISO-8859-1 Something else that should be remembered is that when Western consumers (and Japanese ones too) buy irresistably cheap stuff made in China, it's not really cheap - the price difference is all too often accounted for by exploitation and labour conditions that come very close to slavery, and your buying choice supports that. Yet growing numbers of people in the US for instance (many millions now) who've fallen through what remains of the net, jobless recovery notwithstanding, don't have the luxury of being able to exercise that choice, and thus end up supportng pretty much the same forces which have impoverished and marginalised them. Best Keith This passage reminds me of some stories of WWII. It was then, when locals cached in on the detained jews in gethos, by selling them food and goods at outrageous prices. This situation is the same only good flow is backwards: WWII: locals goods--- getho ---big $ now: we small$-- chinese ---goods Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ /x-charset
Re[2]: [biofuel] Re: Fuel-hungry China goes far afield to secure oil
x-charset ISO-8859-1Hallo John, Had we not considered it legal we wouldn't have done it. Lots of things are considered legal until challenged. Perhaps I should have put *considered* for emphasis on considered but I didn't think it was necessary. Happy Happy, Gustl Tuesday, 10 February, 2004, 15:21:35, you wrote: JH Hakan Falk wrote: John, Are you sure that you have the dates right, if so, the court ruling must be a joke. To rule 1994 against the second world war concentration camps for the Japanese in US. -)) If it was dec. 1944, the shortly ending of internment, must have been close or at the end of WWII. LOL JH Oops. The rather egregious typo is entirely my fault. Yes, that should JH read Dec 18th *1944*. JH Given that VJ day was still 8 months off and the US was still JH considering an invasion of Japan, I find it telling that the Supreme JH Court did the right thing *before* the war was over. -- Je mehr wir haben, desto mehr fordert Gott von uns. Mitglied-Team AMIGA ICQ: 22211253-Gustli The safest road to Hell is the gradual one - the gentle slope, soft underfoot, without sudden turnings, without milestones, without signposts. C. S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters Es gibt Wahrheiten, die so sehr auf der Straà liegen, daà?sie gerade deshalb von der gewëænlichen Welt nicht gesehen oder wenigstens nicht erkannt werden. Those who dance are considered insane by those who can't hear the music. George Carlin Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ /x-charset
[biofuel] Re: Fuel-hungry China goes far afield to secure oil
x-charset ISO-8859-1I have hopes for China being a place where alternatives to Oil in consumer passenger cars are genuinely sought. Although their oil appetite appears to be getting out of control, they are seemingly leaders in such areas as advanced batteries for HEVs and EVs. They are, I'm thinking/hoping, not putting all their eggs in one basket. On Tue, 10 Feb 2004 05:09:01 +0900, you wrote: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2001850271_chinaoil04.html The Seattle Times: Nation World: Wednesday, February 04, 2004 Fuel-hungry China goes far afield to secure oil By Ellen Knickmeyer The Associated Press DAKAR, Senegal - The West African nation of Gabon isn't one of the world's more high-profile countries. So why a state visit by China's leader? That's easy: oil. Burning fuel at a record pace to run an economy in overdrive, China, since late last year, has claimed the No. 2 spot in world oil imports, second only to the United States. And jostling with the world's other oil gulpers, China's leaders are looking far afield for a secure oil supply, locking down tough-term deals with easy-term cash. China, the United States, Japan, Europe and, increasingly, India - all leery of dependence on the volatile Middle East - are elbowing each other in a rush to nontraditional oil sources in West Africa, the Caspian Sea region, Russia, South America and elsewhere. That's what brought Chinese President Hu Jintao to Gabon this week. He opened the three-day state visit - his only sub-Saharan stop on a four-nation tour - pledging lasting, lucrative friendship between resource-rich Africa and resource-voracious China. China's broadening of drilling and mining in Africa comes with the aim of promoting development by the principle of 'win-win,' Hu told Gabon's lawmakers Monday. He spoke in a parliament building being rebuilt by no-interest Chinese loans. On the sidelines, China, Gabon and France's Total Gabon oil firm signed a multimillion-dollar series of deals guaranteeing China a set, steady flow of Gabonese oil. Despite any rival bids or Gabon's own declining supplies, it means that Gabon will always have to make oil available ... to sell to China, Oil Minister Onouviet explained proudly on Gabonese radio. The Chinese leader moved yesterday to Algeria - a north African nation absorbed in its struggle against a bloody Islamic extremist group, and a no-go zone for most world leaders. But Hu has a particular reason to visit Algeria - the hundreds of millions of dollars China has invested in refineries there since last year. And back in China, the economy - booming at 9.9 percent annual, with business and family-car ownership surging - is waiting to see what Hu brings home from his oil trip. China is driving global demand, hard. It's sucking up a lot of the world's oil resources, said Antoine Halff, demand specialist at the International Energy Agency. It's a large market and steep growth, and it's not getting the oil it's looking for. According to recent Oil Market Report issued by International Energy Agency (IEA), China will need 5.8 million barrels of oil every day in 2004. Official statistics showed that the volume of imported oil has increased from over 20 million tons to 70 million tons from 1996 to 2002. China imported approximately 1.4 million barrels of crude oil per day in the international market during the time, the report added. Until very recently, China, like the West and Japan, largely had been looking for oil imports where everyone else was - the Middle East, source of 60 percent of Chinese oil imports. But increasingly, the world's powers are questioning the wisdom of leaving national economies to rest on the explosive region. The result is an oil boom in places like West Africa. In Angola, Nigeria, Gabon and other oil-producing states, China and other Asian nations in 2003 competed aggressively with Europe and the United States for deals. It can be easier for China, which doesn't have to worry as much as Western oil companies about criticism of foreign partnerships, said Galvin Hayman of London-based Global Witness, which calls for transparency in international oil deals. For example, when a Canadian company pulled out of Sudan in 2002 amid complaints that oil was helping fund civil war, Asian partnerships led by China, India and Malaysia in 2003 moved in. China has a willingness to go to places where others may have constraints - in the Sudan, for instance, said Halff, with the International Energy Agency. They have their agenda, and they are acting according to their agenda, Halff said. Their primary concern is to ensure sufficient supply, and sufficient diversified supply. But industry analysts say China today may be sinking some of its money into questionable sources of supply such as Kazakstan, Peru, and Gabon. Exploring wells now increasingly are coming up dry - suggesting Gabon may soon be tapped out.
