[Biofuel] thanks to "the list"

[Oskar Bartenstein]

Thanks to all involved. 
I have learned a lot from this list.
Facts, thoughts, motivations discussed here helped
me shape my personal and professional life.
And I am certainly not the only one.
It is sad to see the list go - but it served its purpose.
The work of its founder stays alive in the goals,
actions and achievements of the people he inspired.

With all good wishes for a happy future!

Oskar Bartenstein

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Re: [Biofuel] Thanks!

[Dawie Coetzee]

This looks like another attempt to spread a virus   -D


- Original Message 
From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Friday, 30 March, 2007 5:20:33 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Thanks!


Please have a look at the attached file.
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Re: [Biofuel] Thanks list and my ISP must be bouncing my messages

[Keith Addison]

Hi Lillie

We haven't forgotten you. Or I haven't anyway.

>Maybe if I post the ISP will notice I participate once in a while.

I see you got bounced twice, sorry about that. FYI, this is the info 
the List administration sends to people who ask:

>Your Biofuel list subscription has bounced. That means many list 
>emails sent to you have been returned, which delays deliveries to 
>other list members. At a certain point the list server automatically 
>stops sending you any further list messages, and sends you three 
>advisory emails over the next week or so with information on 
>reactivating your membership (by clicking on a link). If there's no 
>response to these emails the server unsubscribes you from the list.
>
>We have cleared your subscription so you will be receiving list 
>emails again and can post messages. But, as with all mailing lists, 
>managing your subscription is your responsibility. You should check 
>with your ISP to find out what is causing these bounces.

HTH.

>I want to thank the list because it put me onto www.notmilk.com and it saved
>my life. Now, about a year later I am feeling 10 years younger and am moving
>on to Raw Food Vegan.

That's wonderful Lillie! :-)

But who'd've thought such a thing would happen at a biofuels list??? 
I'm amazed.

>I don't like being known as a lurker but a learner.

You're not a lurker. Anyway, we know quite a lot about lurkers on the 
list. We managed to get quite a few hundred of them to write to us a 
bit over a year ago when the list left Yahoo. It's an extraordinary 
collection of emails, we should take the names and addresses off and 
publish it. Really we should, it deserves it.

Enough for now to say that just because they're lurkers definitely 
doesn't mean that they're necessarily inactive or passive. I'd guess 
there's as much action and activism, over a wide range, among the 
lurkers as there is among the posters. I mean, here's you saying you 
went and saved your life, good heavens. Lurking? Naah, list members 
can do whatever they like, and welcome.

Regards

Keith



>Lillie


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[Biofuel] Thanks list and my ISP must be bouncing my messages

[Lillie Bennett]

Maybe if I post the ISP will notice I participate once in a while.

I want to thank the list because it put me onto www.notmilk.com and it saved
my life. Now, about a year later I am feeling 10 years younger and am moving
on to Raw Food Vegan.

I don't like being known as a lurker but a learner.

Lillie 


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[Biofuel] Thanks list but my ISP must be bouncing my messages

[Lillie Bennett]

Maybe if I post the ISP will notice I participate once in a while.

I want to thank the list because it put me onto www.notmilk.com and it saved 
my life. Now, about a year later I am feeling 10 years younger and am moving 
on to Raw Food Vegan.

I don't like being known as a lurker but a learner.

Lillie 


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Re: [Biofuel] Thanks Keith

[Mills, Duncan]

And for good measure, in case anyone outside of the USA is looking at this:
For the same 150l "processor":
2995USD from Fuelmeister USD
(http://www.fuelmeister.com/products/fuelmeister.asp)
6227USD (£3459) from Greenfuels (http://www.greenfuels.co.uk/small.htm) and
10867USD (R70 000) here in South Africa
(http://www.aae.co.za/iPages/default.asp?refID=55&catID=39) 

There is a 3232USD and 4640USD jump as the "processor" move to the next
continent. Buyer beware! 





Regards,
 
Duncan Mills
082 853 8356

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:Biofuel-
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of JJJN
> Sent: 19 September 2005 03:51 AM
> To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
> Subject: [Biofuel] Thanks Keith
> 
> FuelMeister ? Ever heard of that one?  I hit upon this site and
> curiosity made me search the archives for "FuelMeister" well that was a
> real interesting little read.
> 
> Anyway thanks Keith for setting this all up and helping all us newbies out
> !
> 
> I have to wonder if all the crank rumors that I have heard about BD
> didn't come from FuelMeister operators using that fuel Hmmm..
> 
> Well enough on that.
> Jim
> 
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> messages):
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[Biofuel] Thanks Keith

[JJJN]

FuelMeister ? Ever heard of that one?  I hit upon this site and 
curiosity made me search the archives for "FuelMeister" well that was a 
real interesting little read.

Anyway thanks Keith for setting this all up and helping all us newbies out !

I have to wonder if all the crank rumors that I have heard about BD 
didn't come from FuelMeister operators using that fuel Hmmm..

Well enough on that.
Jim

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Re: [Biofuel] Thanks to Keith, Mike is a Cretan

[des]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

>I am from Crete also.
>
>I go for a walk to knossos  almost everyday, nice to hear about this...
>
>Stelios Terzakis
>
>The real Cretan...
>
>  
>
So I looked it up in the dictionary, and there _are_ 2 spellings for 
this.  With completely different meanings and origins.
I thought Mike was being called a cretin:

Pronunciation: 'krE-t^& n
Function: /noun/
Etymology: French /crétin, /from French dialect /cretin, /literally, 
wretch, innocent victim, from Latin /christianus /Christian
*1* *:* one afflicted with cretinism
*2* *:* a stupid, vulgar, or insensitive person *: *CLOD, LOUT
- cre·tin·ous / -t^& n-&s/ adjective

When actually the word was Cretan:/
/
Pronunciation: 'krEt
Variant(s): or Greek Krí·ti /'krE-tE/
Usage: geographical/ /name
island Greece in the E Mediterranean capital Iráklion area/ /3189 
square/ /miles/ /(8260 square/ kilometers),/ population/ /536,980
- Cre·tan /'krE-t^& n/ adjective or noun/

/shamelessly borrowed from the m-w.com site

doug/ /swanson/
/

-- 
All generalizations are false.  Including this one.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

This email is constructed entirely with OpenSource Software.
No Microsoft databits have been incorporated herein.
All existing databits have been constructed from recycled databits. 


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Re: [Biofuel] Thanks to Keith, Mike is a Cretan

[Mike Weaver]

Sorry, those pesky list serv regs again!  Besides, it's in the archives!

Keith Addison wrote:

>>The Minotaur?
>>
>>
>
>MISTer Weaver! This is an unminotaured list, IF you please! And long 
>may it remain so.
>
>  
>
>>Kirk McLoren wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>Gee Mike I didn't know you lived in Crete.
>>>My uncle visited there once.>
>>>--Kirk
>>>
>>>*/Mike Weaver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>/* wrote:
>>>
>>>Ahh...that. I hope you're not upset about that little "youthful
>>>indiscetion" I mean really, it's no worse than DWI, is it?
>>>  
>>>
>
>Just as long as you didn't inhale.
>
>  
>
>>>Mike of Knossos
>>>  
>>>
>
>You're not going to put that on your campaign posters are you? Is it in Texas?
>
>Anyway, you're welcome, I'm glad you're happy there.
>
>Keith
>
>
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>  
>


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Re: [Biofuel] Thanks to Keith, Mike is a Cretan

[Mike Weaver]

I could tell a few interesting stories myself...

Kirk McLoren wrote:

> Lagos -- now there's a prize. I worked with a guy that was a Hausa. 
> Nice guy actually. Warm hearted. He used to tell me stories about 
> Nigeria. Some things just leave you shaking your head. 1st prize a day 
> in Lagos. 2nd prize a week in Lagos. Really makes you appreciate the 
> scoundrels we have at home.
>  
> Kirk
>
> */Mike Weaver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>/* wrote:
>
> That's what I want - a contracting gig in Crete. I get sent to Lagos
> and Conakry
>
> Kirk McLoren wrote:
>
> > No, he had a little contracting job there. Built a fancy house for
> > some guy. Minos I think.
> > Kirk
> >
> > */Mike Weaver /* wrote:
> >
> > The Minotaur?
> >
> > Kirk McLoren wrote:
> >
> > > Gee Mike I didn't know you lived in Crete.
> > > My uncle visited there once.
> > >
> > > --Kirk
> > >
> > > */Mike Weaver /* wrote:
> > >
> > > Ahh...that. I hope you're not upset about that little "youthful
> > > indiscetion" I mean really, it's no worse than DWI, is it?
> > >
> > > Mike of Knossos
> > >
> > .
> >
> >
> 
> > Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
> >
> >
> >
> >
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>  
>


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Re: [Biofuel] Thanks to Keith, Mike is a Cretan

[Kirk McLoren]

Lagos -- now there's a prize. I worked with a guy that was a Hausa. Nice guy actually. Warm hearted. He used to tell me stories about Nigeria. Some things just leave you shaking your head. 1st prize a day in Lagos. 2nd prize a week in Lagos. Really makes you appreciate the scoundrels we have at home.
 
KirkMike Weaver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
That's what I want - a contracting gig in Crete. I get sent to Lagos and ConakryKirk McLoren wrote:> No, he had a little contracting job there. Built a fancy house for > some guy. Minos I think.> Kirk>> */Mike Weaver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>/* wrote:>> The Minotaur?>> Kirk McLoren wrote:>> > Gee Mike I didn't know you lived in Crete.> > My uncle visited there once.> >> > --Kirk> >> > */Mike Weaver /* wrote:> >> > Ahh...that. I hope you're not upset about that little "youthful> > indiscetion" I mean really, it's no worse than DWI, is it?> >> > Mike of Knossos> >> .>> > Click here to
 donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. > >>>>___>Biofuel mailing list>Biofuel@sustainablelists.org>http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org>>Biofuel at Journey to Forever:>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html>>Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):>http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/>> >___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz
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Re: [Biofuel] Thanks to Keith, Mike is a Cretan

[Kirk McLoren]

I've always wanted to go there. I had an uncle in the RAF that had nice things to say about it. I haven't been to Greece either. Hitch hiked around northern Italy when I was younger. Really enjoyed my experiences in Europe. All that was 40 years ago though. I'm sure there has been a lot of change just as there has been a lot of change here in the US.
If money was no object I would spend the remainder of my life traveling. So much to see and do.
 
Kirk[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I am from Crete also.I go for a walk to knossos almost everyday, nice to hear about this...Stelios TerzakisThe real Cretan...Áñ÷éêü ìÞíõìá áðü Mike Weaver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:> The Minotaur?> > Kirk McLoren wrote:> > > Gee Mike I didn't know you lived in Crete.> > My uncle visited there once.> > > > --Kirk> >> > */Mike Weaver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>/* wrote:> >> > Ahh...that. I hope you're not upset about that little "youthful> > indiscetion" I mean really, it's no worse than DWI, is it?> >> > Mike of Knossos> >> > > > Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. > > > >> >> >> >___> >Biofuel mailing list> >Biofuel@sustainablelists.org> >http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org> >> >Biofuel at Journey to Forever:> >http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html> >> >Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000> messages):> >http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/> >> > > >> > > ___> Biofuel mailing list> Biofuel@sustainablelists.org> http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org> > Biofuel at Journey to Forever:>
 http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html> > Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000> messages):> http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/> ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
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Re: [Biofuel] Thanks to Keith, Mike is a Cretan

[Keith Addison]

>I am from Crete also.
>I go for a walk to knossos  almost everyday, nice to hear about this...
>Stelios Terzakis
>The real Cretan...

Hello Stelios

I'm glad you're here to set the record straight! Very ancient place 
you live in.

That old guy Epimenides gave the Cretans a bad press just to make a 
point, you sure don't owe him any favours. He was a Cretan 
philosopher and he said: "All Cretans are liars." It's 2600 years 
later and they still haven't decided whether he was lying or not!

Anyway, Mike's lawyer has just been explaining to me that Mike didn't 
tell me he was ignoring me, he told Hakan he was ignoring me, and he 
told me he was ignoring Hakan, not a paradox at all.

I think I'll vote for the lawyer.

Best wishes

Keith


>Mike Weaver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> > The Minotaur?> > Kirk McLoren wrote:> > > Gee Mike I didn't know 
>you lived in Crete.> > My uncle visited there once.> >  > > 
>--Kirk> >> > */Mike Weaver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>/* wrote:> >> > 
>Ahh...that. I hope you're not upset about that little "youthful> > 
>indiscetion" I mean really, it's no worse than DWI, is it?> >> > 
>Mike of Knossos> >> >


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Re: [Biofuel] Thanks to Keith, Mike is a Cretan

[Keith Addison]

>The Minotaur?

MISTer Weaver! This is an unminotaured list, IF you please! And long 
may it remain so.

>Kirk McLoren wrote:
>
> > Gee Mike I didn't know you lived in Crete.
> > My uncle visited there once.>
> > --Kirk
> >
> > */Mike Weaver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>/* wrote:
> >
> > Ahh...that. I hope you're not upset about that little "youthful
> > indiscetion" I mean really, it's no worse than DWI, is it?

Just as long as you didn't inhale.

> > Mike of Knossos

You're not going to put that on your campaign posters are you? Is it in Texas?

Anyway, you're welcome, I'm glad you're happy there.

Keith


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Re: [Biofuel] Thanks to Keith, Mike is a Cretan

[Mike Weaver]

I would love to go to Crete - do you have any networks you need fixing?

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

>I am from Crete also.
>I go for a walk to knossos  almost everyday, nice to hear about this...
>Stelios Terzakis
>The real Cretan...
>
>
>
>Αρχικό μήνυμα από  Mike Weaver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>  
>
>>The Minotaur?> > Kirk McLoren wrote:> > > Gee Mike I didn't know you lived in 
>>Crete.> > My uncle visited there once.> >  > > --Kirk> >> > */Mike Weaver 
>><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>/* wrote:> >> > Ahh...that. I hope you're not upset 
>>about that little "youthful> > indiscetion" I mean really, it's no worse 
>>than DWI, is it?> >> > Mike of Knossos> >> > 
>>> > 
>>Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. > > 
>>> >> 
>>>> >> 
>>>___> >Biofuel mailing list> 
>>>Biofuel@sustainablelists.org> 
>>>http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org> 
 >Biofuel at Journey to Forever:> 
>>>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html> >> >Search the combined Biofuel 
>>and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000> messages):> 
>>>http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/> >> >  > >> > > 
>>___> Biofuel mailing list> 
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>>
>>
>
>
>
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Re: [Biofuel] Thanks to Keith, Mike is a Cretan

[Mike Weaver]

That's what I want - a contracting gig in Crete.  I get sent to Lagos 
and Conakry

Kirk McLoren wrote:

> No, he had a little contracting job there. Built a fancy house for 
> some guy. Minos I think.
> Kirk
>
> */Mike Weaver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>/* wrote:
>
> The Minotaur?
>
> Kirk McLoren wrote:
>
> > Gee Mike I didn't know you lived in Crete.
> > My uncle visited there once.
> >
> > --Kirk
> >
> > */Mike Weaver /* wrote:
> >
> > Ahh...that. I hope you're not upset about that little "youthful
> > indiscetion" I mean really, it's no worse than DWI, is it?
> >
> > Mike of Knossos
> >
> .
>
> 
> Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. 
> 
>
>
>
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Re: [Biofuel] Thanks to Keith, Mike is a Cretan

[terzakis]

I am from Crete also.

I go for a walk to knossos  almost everyday, nice to hear about this...

Stelios Terzakis

The real Cretan...




Αρχικό μήνυμα από  Mike Weaver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> The Minotaur?
> 
> Kirk McLoren wrote:
> 
> > Gee Mike I didn't know you lived in Crete.
> > My uncle visited there once.
> >  
> > --Kirk
> >
> > */Mike Weaver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>/* wrote:
> >
> > Ahh...that. I hope you're not upset about that little "youthful
> > indiscetion" I mean really, it's no worse than DWI, is it?
> >
> > Mike of Knossos
> >
> > 
> > Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. 
> > 
> >
> >
> >
> >___
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> >
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> >
> >  
> >
> 
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Re: [Biofuel] Thanks to Keith, Mike is a Cretan

[Kirk McLoren]

No, he had a little contracting job there. Built a fancy house for some guy. Minos I think.
KirkMike Weaver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
The Minotaur?Kirk McLoren wrote:> Gee Mike I didn't know you lived in Crete.> My uncle visited there once.> > --Kirk>> */Mike Weaver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>/* wrote:>> Ahh...that. I hope you're not upset about that little "youthful> indiscetion" I mean really, it's no worse than DWI, is it?>> Mike of Knossos>.
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Re: [Biofuel] Thanks to Keith, Mike is a Cretan

[Mike Weaver]

The Minotaur?

Kirk McLoren wrote:

> Gee Mike I didn't know you lived in Crete.
> My uncle visited there once.
>  
> --Kirk
>
> */Mike Weaver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>/* wrote:
>
> Ahh...that. I hope you're not upset about that little "youthful
> indiscetion" I mean really, it's no worse than DWI, is it?
>
> Mike of Knossos
>
> 
> Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. 
> 
>
>
>
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>
>  
>


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Re: [Biofuel] Thanks to Keith, Mike is a Cretan

[Kirk McLoren]

Gee Mike I didn't know you lived in Crete.
My uncle visited there once.
 
--KirkMike Weaver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Ahh...that. I hope you're not upset about that little "youthful indiscetion" I mean really, it's no worse than DWI, is it?Mike of Knossos
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Re: [Biofuel] Thanks to Keith, Mike is a Cretan

[Mike Weaver]

Ahh...that.  I hope you're not upset about that little "youthful 
indiscetion"  I mean really, it's no worse than DWI, is it?

If elected, I will apooint Cindy Sheehan director of DHS.  She can 
change the name. 
Granny D will director of FEC.
My administration will be in honor of Peace Pilgrim.
Actually, if they both want to run in my stead, I'd yield.  I don't 
think I'd get a second term anyway.
Plus, I don't think most of America wants to hear what I have to say, 
particularly about fossil fuels.

I'm neither politician or a lawyer - as my girlfriend (and most of my 
friends and family) say, I'm a kook.
I mean, who has a car that runs on used oil from a Thai restaurant?  It 
smells like lunch when I drive it.
And that wood stove jeez...

And why oh why build a BD generator to make your own power?  And solar 
water heat?

Why can't you be normal?

This list makes me happy because it's full of "kooks" like me, from all 
nations!



Mike of Knossos

Keith Addison wrote:

>>I WILL be president soon, in 2008, and *I 'm* pround of you now.
>>
>>
>
>Oh are you really? Last I heard from you was that you were ignoring 
>me, not only that you were telling me you were ignoring me. That's a 
>whole new twist on the paradox of Epimenides the Cretan, I'm still 
>trying to figure it out. Are you a politician or a lawyer?
>
>  
>
>>Isn't
>>than enough?
>>
>>
>
>On the never-never system, an IOU? Sounds like presidential material to me.
>
>Anyway, if your running mate's either Granny D or Cindy Sheehan or 
>both (leaving not much room for you) I might consider voting for you.
>
>Best wishes
>
>Keith
>
>
>  
>
>>Mike the First
>>
>>Keith Addison wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>Hello Andy
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  
>>>
By the way Keith, I have a hard time just reading the posts, and keeping
up with most of the threads, or the ones of interest for me.




>>>You get good at it.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  
>>>
Whatever
you do keep and maintain this is OK with me.  Thanks for all YOUR HARD
WORK




>>>Thanks for saying so Andy, you're welcome.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  
>>>
(The President would be proud of you :) )




>>>Aarghh!!! You mean like Mike Brown? :-( I thought you were my friend,
>>>is it something I said?
>>>
>>>Keith
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  
>>>
Andy


>
>
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>  
>


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Re: [Biofuel] Thanks to Keith

[Keith Addison]

>I WILL be president soon, in 2008, and *I 'm* pround of you now.

Oh are you really? Last I heard from you was that you were ignoring 
me, not only that you were telling me you were ignoring me. That's a 
whole new twist on the paradox of Epimenides the Cretan, I'm still 
trying to figure it out. Are you a politician or a lawyer?

>Isn't
>than enough?

On the never-never system, an IOU? Sounds like presidential material to me.

Anyway, if your running mate's either Granny D or Cindy Sheehan or 
both (leaving not much room for you) I might consider voting for you.

Best wishes

Keith


>Mike the First
>
>Keith Addison wrote:
>
> >Hello Andy
> >
> >
> >
> >>By the way Keith, I have a hard time just reading the posts, and keeping
> >>up with most of the threads, or the ones of interest for me.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >You get good at it.
> >
> >
> >
> >>Whatever
> >>you do keep and maintain this is OK with me.  Thanks for all YOUR HARD
> >>WORK
> >>
> >>
> >
> >Thanks for saying so Andy, you're welcome.
> >
> >
> >
> >>(The President would be proud of you :) )
> >>
> >>
> >
> >Aarghh!!! You mean like Mike Brown? :-( I thought you were my friend,
> >is it something I said?
> >
> >Keith
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>Andy


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Re: [Biofuel] Thanks to Keith

[Mike Weaver]

I WILL be president soon, in 2008, and *I 'm* pround of you now.  Isn't 
than enough?

Mike the First

Keith Addison wrote:

>Hello Andy
>
>  
>
>>By the way Keith, I have a hard time just reading the posts, and keeping
>>up with most of the threads, or the ones of interest for me.
>>
>>
>
>You get good at it.
>
>  
>
>>Whatever
>>you do keep and maintain this is OK with me.  Thanks for all YOUR HARD
>>WORK
>>
>>
>
>Thanks for saying so Andy, you're welcome.
>
>  
>
>>(The President would be proud of you :) )
>>
>>
>
>Aarghh!!! You mean like Mike Brown? :-( I thought you were my friend, 
>is it something I said?
>
>Keith
>
>
>  
>
>>Andy
>>
>>
>
>
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>
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>http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
>  
>


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Re: [Biofuel] Thanks to Keith

[Keith Addison]

Hello Andy

>By the way Keith, I have a hard time just reading the posts, and keeping
>up with most of the threads, or the ones of interest for me.

You get good at it.

>Whatever
>you do keep and maintain this is OK with me.  Thanks for all YOUR HARD
>WORK

Thanks for saying so Andy, you're welcome.

>(The President would be proud of you :) )

Aarghh!!! You mean like Mike Brown? :-( I thought you were my friend, 
is it something I said?

Keith


>Andy


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[Biofuel] Thanks to Keith

[Andy Karpay]

By the way Keith, I have a hard time just reading the posts, and keeping
up with most of the threads, or the ones of interest for me.  Whatever
you do keep and maintain this is OK with me.  Thanks for all YOUR HARD
WORK (The President would be proud of you :) )
Andy



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Re: [Biofuel] thanks

[terzakis]

Only the abstract is in English.

If you like i can send you pictures, diagrams, etc in your e-mail if it has the
capacity and you will share it to others.

Stelios

Abstract

Alkali catalyzed, two-stage process for biodiesel production from used vegetable
oils mixture and evaluation of its fuel properties and specifications.


The European Union Directive 2003/30/EU for biofuels, under the prism of
increased environmental concerns (combating climate change, reducing local
environmental loads), energy and (free) market policies (achieving full
utilization of renewable energy resources; creating jobs and income in an EU
increasing to 25 member countries; contributing forward to a secure supply of
energy), and several other socioeconomic aspects] is driving industry to
produce biodiesel in order to supply the markets in each country with an
appropriate proportion of the conventional fuel demand. 
Biodiesel is the product of the reaction of vegetable oils and animal fats with
alcohols and it has many fuel specifications similar with those of conventional
(e.g. petrogenic) diesel. This new fuel seems to be environmentally friendlier
by means of safer exhaust emissions, even of exhaust pollutants of diesel
specified by low-sulphur content. In fact the need for using low-sulphur diesel
led to a decreasing lubricity, which has been suggested to improve by blending
conventional diesel with biodiesel. Thus, the need to produce biodiesel in a
financial wise manner that meets the above mentioned specifications is
obvious.
In this project an alkali catalyzed two-stage transesterification of 
mixtures
of used oils is studied (olive oil, corn oil, soy oil, sunflower oil). This
process is followed by an evaluation and quality control exercise of the end
products. According to our initial results the factors controlling the quality
of the end product are:
 I) The Free Fatty Acids (FFA) level in the used oils feedstock and iodine
value;
 II) the amount of alkali catalyst (calculated by using an empirical formula
introducing the previously mentioned FFA value);  
III) the proportion of different types of used oils in the reactant mixture, and
its effect on some fuel properties like viscosity; the cloud point, lubricity,
heating value and the pour point cold weather flow properties. From the
different feedstock used, the used olive-oil meets the EN 14214 specifications
but with the appropriate modifications all the above oils could be used to
produce a biofuel of acceptable quality for surface transport uses.
From the different used feedstock the used olive oil gave a fuel that meets the
EN 14214 specifications for biodiesel used in transport vehicles. The rest used
oils (cornoil, soybean oil, sunflower oil), produced biodiesel that meets the EN
14213 specifications of biodiesel used as heating oil. 
However, with the appropiate modifications (that are also proposed) in our
methodology a fuel that meets both specifications can be produced.

Incentives
In a real scale the exploitation, recovery and recycling of used oils can only
be done using mixtures of used oils given that many different types of used
oils, with different FFA level, are disposed. 
To the best of our knowledge no other work accomplishing all of the following 
has been reported:
1.  The development of a simple and safe methodology producing biodiesel of
acceptable quality (under the EN 14214 or 14213 specifications) from a mixture
of used oils feedstock.
2.  The establishment of a simple formula of the quantity of the catalyst 
needed,
depending on the FFA level of oils, saturation level and types of edible used
oils.
3.  The estimation of the diesel fuel properties of the biodiesel product 
when
the proportion of the types of used oils is known.














Αρχικό μήνυμα από  bob allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> Congratulations Stelios, I think you made a wise decision on your thesis 
> work. It looks like you will be in demand.
> 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
> >Dear Prof Allen, Keith, et Al
> >
> >With your help i made my dream possible.
> >I received my MSc in Environmental Engineering, and my diploma is titled:
> >Process development for biodiesel production from waste edible oils and
> quality
> >control of the produced alternative fuel. 
> >  
> >
> 
> Is there an electronic version of your thesis you could share with us? 
> In english hopefully?
> 
> >My achivement however which i am really proud of is that i received three
> awards
> >and 2 grants in national level (Greece), and i am waiting for another one
> which
> >i replied lately in France. (very intereresting meeting opportunity to
> exchange
> >ideas there www.innovact.com they have also a agro-meeting section)
> >
> >My research interest is now on reclaiming biodiesel byproducts ang i am
> >considering the following: organic fertiliser(compost), natural
> antioxidants
> >(polyphenols, mainly from used olive oil),tocopherols, biopolymers,
> metabolites
> >of glycerol (e.x.

Re: [Biofuel] thanks

[malcolm maclure]

Stelios, 

Many congratulations!! The world needs guys like you & I think you have made
a wise choice for a career. I would wish you all the very best of luck, but
you don't need it - you're well on the way already!! :-)

WELL DONE!!!

Malcolm 



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 24 August 2005 07:59
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: [Biofuel] thanks

Dear Prof Allen, Keith, et Al

With your help i made my dream possible.
I received my MSc in Environmental Engineering, and my diploma is titled:
Process development for biodiesel production from waste edible oils and
quality
control of the produced alternative fuel. 
My achivement however which i am really proud of is that i received three
awards
and 2 grants in national level (Greece), and i am waiting for another one
which
i replied lately in France. (very intereresting meeting opportunity to
exchange
ideas there www.innovact.com they have also a agro-meeting section)

My research interest is now on reclaiming biodiesel byproducts ang i am
considering the following: organic fertiliser(compost), natural antioxidants
(polyphenols, mainly from used olive oil),tocopherols, biopolymers,
metabolites
of glycerol (e.x. lactic acid). I think these should be mentioned on the web
site and i could  prepare something about these.

Thank you,
You are all in my heart.

Stelios

Stelios




  bob allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> You use it just like fossil crude oil.  Further refining will afford 
> just about what ever you want, from low molecular wt gases and 
> distillates up thru asphalt.
> 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > Can it be used as diesel substitute in cars? If not, what applications?
> >  
> > Rgds
> > WH
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ___
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> >
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org
> > 
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> > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> > 
> > Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000
> messages):
> > http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
> > 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Bob Allen
> http://ozarker.org/bob
> 
> "Science is what we have learned about how to keep
> from fooling ourselves" ? Richard Feynman
> 
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> messages):
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> 
> 




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Re: [Biofuel] thanks

[Keith Addison]

Stelios, that's great! Congratulations!

>Dear Prof Allen, Keith, et Al
>With your help i made my dream possible.I received my MSc in 
>Environmental Engineering, and my diploma is titled:Process 
>development for biodiesel production from waste edible oils and 
>qualitycontrol of the produced alternative fuel. My achivement 
>however which i am really proud of is that i received three 
>awardsand 2 grants in national level (Greece), and i am waiting for 
>another one whichi replied lately in France. (very intereresting 
>meeting opportunity to exchangeideas there www.innovact.com they 
>have also a agro-meeting section)
>My research interest is now on reclaiming biodiesel byproducts ang i 
>amconsidering the following: organic fertiliser(compost), natural 
>antioxidants(polyphenols, mainly from used olive oil),tocopherols, 
>biopolymers, metabolitesof glycerol (e.x. lactic acid). I think 
>these should be mentioned on the website and i could  prepare 
>something about these.

Not much of it is available at the backyard level though. Actually 
it's pretty much a closed system, the final few missing bits will be 
filled in soon. (Did you forget biogas?)

I'd by happy to discuss it with you offlist, and thanks for offering.

Best wishes

Keith Addison
Journey to Forever
KYOTO Pref., Japan
http://journeytoforever.org/

 

>Thank you,You are all in my heart.
>Stelios
>Stelios
>
>
>
>  bob allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> > You use it just like fossil crude oil.  Further refining will 
>afford > just about what ever you want, from low molecular wt gases 
>and > distillates up thru asphalt.> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:> > Can 
>it be used as diesel substitute in cars? If not, what 
>applications?> >  > > Rgds> > WH> > > > > >


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Re: [Biofuel] thanks

[bob allen]

Congratulations Stelios, I think you made a wise decision on your thesis 
work. It looks like you will be in demand.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

>Dear Prof Allen, Keith, et Al
>
>With your help i made my dream possible.
>I received my MSc in Environmental Engineering, and my diploma is titled:
>Process development for biodiesel production from waste edible oils and quality
>control of the produced alternative fuel. 
>  
>

Is there an electronic version of your thesis you could share with us? 
In english hopefully?

>My achivement however which i am really proud of is that i received three 
>awards
>and 2 grants in national level (Greece), and i am waiting for another one which
>i replied lately in France. (very intereresting meeting opportunity to exchange
>ideas there www.innovact.com they have also a agro-meeting section)
>
>My research interest is now on reclaiming biodiesel byproducts ang i am
>considering the following: organic fertiliser(compost), natural antioxidants
>(polyphenols, mainly from used olive oil),tocopherols, biopolymers, metabolites
>of glycerol (e.x. lactic acid). I think these should be mentioned on the web
>site and i could  prepare something about these.
>
>  
>
Although I have little time for real research, I also am looking at 
other ways to reclaim byproducts, essentially the glycerol. 
Etherification of glycerol yields 1,2,3 trimethoxy propane which could 
be used as an oxygenated component for gasoline. Also reesterifcation of 
the glycerol with propanoic or butanoic acid will produce a 12 or 15 
carbon compound which could be added directly to the biodiesel, thus 
increasing the overall yield of fuel from lipids. Of course the big 
question is, is it energy/cost effective.

good luck



-- 
Bob Allen
http://ozarker.org/bob

"Science is what we have learned about how to keep 
from fooling ourselves" — Richard Feynman


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[Biofuel] thanks

[terzakis]

Dear Prof Allen, Keith, et Al

With your help i made my dream possible.
I received my MSc in Environmental Engineering, and my diploma is titled:
Process development for biodiesel production from waste edible oils and quality
control of the produced alternative fuel. 
My achivement however which i am really proud of is that i received three awards
and 2 grants in national level (Greece), and i am waiting for another one which
i replied lately in France. (very intereresting meeting opportunity to exchange
ideas there www.innovact.com they have also a agro-meeting section)

My research interest is now on reclaiming biodiesel byproducts ang i am
considering the following: organic fertiliser(compost), natural antioxidants
(polyphenols, mainly from used olive oil),tocopherols, biopolymers, metabolites
of glycerol (e.x. lactic acid). I think these should be mentioned on the web
site and i could  prepare something about these.

Thank you,
You are all in my heart.

Stelios

Stelios




  bob allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> You use it just like fossil crude oil.  Further refining will afford 
> just about what ever you want, from low molecular wt gases and 
> distillates up thru asphalt.
> 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > Can it be used as diesel substitute in cars? If not, what applications?
> >  
> > Rgds
> > WH
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ___
> > Biofuel mailing list
> > Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
> > http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org
> > 
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> > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> > 
> > Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000
> messages):
> > http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
> > 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Bob Allen
> http://ozarker.org/bob
> 
> "Science is what we have learned about how to keep
> from fooling ourselves" — Richard Feynman
> 
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> http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org
> 
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> 
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> messages):
> http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
> 
> 




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[Biofuel] Thanks and an update

[Garth & Kim Travis]

Greetings,

First I would like to thank everyone that helped me last winter with my 
research into Indura fabrics.  The company has reversed their decision and 
are now issuing 100% pure cotton uniforms again.  My husband managed to 
avoid having to wear those poisonous ones and I have now donated them to 
the local fire department, where they belong.


We are having a super hot summer.  Our plums have come in a month early, my 
corn is going to be ready a month early and the heat is really affecting 
all my animals.  I have discovered that many heirloom vegetables do not 
like this heat, as a result, my rabbits are eating more from my garden this 
summer than I am.  However, I do support a chemical free farm that grows 
hybrids, so I don't have to buy my stuff at the store.


I am looking forward to a long drive this fall, as I am bringing home the 
start of my new sheep flock.  We are getting into Gulf Coast Native Sheep 
and are looking forward to getting to know them better, as well as learning 
how to shear and deal with the wool.  I have been learning how to knit this 
past spring, so this is exciting.  We had Barbados sheep for the last 
couple of years, but they do not do well with cows, [the cows are scared of 
them!] and they are so flighty and nervous as well as a constant battle 
with parasites that we gave up.


On the discovery list, apple cider vinegar once a month in the water of all 
your animals does a wonderful job of keeping parasites at bay.  It does not 
need to be the good stuff either, the cheap stuff seems to work just fine.


Chickens require enough room to run, not just walk or they loose the value 
of being on pasture.  It is not just that they eat bugs and grass, but 
their movement that makes the eggs healthy.  Thus the chicken tractor is 
great for shelter, but must be surrounded by a moveable fence to give a 
much larger space.  I realize that some people can let their birds free 
range, but I can not.  I have too many predators, including my coydog.


I would like to thank Keith for turning me on to the soil and heath 
library.  Now I have 2 libraries to get lost in on these hot afternoons 
while I hide from the heat.  The book: Small-Scale Grain Raising has really 
got me thinking and working.  This is something I really wanted to get 
into, but it is much better to have some information about what I am doing.


We discovered a spot on our land that has sandy soil that DRAINS!  Now I 
can have my orchard.  I have a couple of olive trees that will be going in 
the ground come fall and I will buy some Fugi apples, plums, apricots, 
peaches and satsuma oranges.


Both of our cows are suppose to be pregnant, but we will not know for sure 
for a while yet.  My neighbor is offering to pay me to let him run his cows 
on my land, talk about win/win for me.  I refused the money, since if we 
get real wet, I will be knocking on his door to get my animals to higher 
ground.  I see no reason to pay the government every time we help each 
other out.  I think he finally sees my point.  He has quit laughing at me 
and complimented me on the quality of my grass.  Compost tea really does help.


We are learning about many other things, aquaponics, vermicomposting and 
solar ac, but these projects will have to either wait until I have time or 
until the weather cools off.  I still need to make a stir stick of some 
sort to start making biodiesel, but this project really needs to move up on 
the list of things to do.  The problem is that hubby wants to be in on it, 
and the barn/workshop is too hot in the evenings to spend any time there.


Bright Blessings,
Kim



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Re: [Biofuel] thanks all

[Vincent zadworny]

hello luc
 
yes i was thinking about going to the base base method. you the 75% of the 
methoxide in the first mix and the remaining 25% in the second mix. my oil has 
a lot of animal fat in it so they say that this one is ht ebest for that
 
vincent zadworny
 
Vancouver Canada

Legal Eagle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
G'ay Vincent;

- Original Message - 
From: "Vincent zadworny" 
To: 
Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2005 9:48 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] thanks all


> Thanks Luc
>
> i will be starting with about 10 to 20 gallons i was going to try the 
> ase - base method that is on the JTF site.

You are refering to the single stage right ? Not the acid base. When 
starting out it is higkly recommended to start with the single stage methode 
before attacking the two stage acid base method. I am going into my second 
year (my completed reactor came on line last August) and I am swtill going 
with the sigle stage and using NaOH as a catalyst. Others have gone on 
quicker so It is up to you, however a good solid understanding of the single 
satge method is paramount in getting the basic troubleshooting down before 
moving to the acid base method. Check it out:
http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make2.html#whystart


>I used to take Chem in high school and have contacted my old teacher.

Chem teacher eh? Get him/her involved. Use words like "esterification" and 
"methyl esters", "NaOH", "KOH" ect. Bait the hook. The more the merrier 
(some even marry her,ha!) and being a chem teacher with all the hub bub that 
the various govt's are making now about "asving a to" of emissions ect this 
could be viewed as a teaching project; "making eco-friendly fuel". Teachers 
can't resist that stuff. You got to sell it a bit though :-).
Shouldn't be too hard a sell, BC seems to be eco-minded.
Have fun, and good fueling.

>I will keep my lye dry.

It works better that way :-)
Luc

> Thanks again
>
> Vincent Zadworny
>
> Vancouver Canada
>
> Legal Eagle wrote:
> G'day Vincent;
>
> That's one heep of a jump from test batches to 100 gals. You sure you 
> don't
> want to try something in the order of 20-30 liters first ? Only a
> suggestion mind you.
> All the best, keep your lye dry :-)
> Luc
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Vincent zadworny"
> To: "biomailinglist"
> Sent: Friday, February 04, 2005 12:51 PM
> Subject: [Biofuel] thanks all
>
>
>> hello all,
>>
>> i would like to thank every one who responded to me postings. washing of
>> the small test batches are going good and am quite confident with the
>> processes. this weekend i am setting up my BIG system consisting of a 100
>> US gallon reaction tank. i have 2 of these tanks and will be (hopefully)
>> expanding to include both of the tanks. I will then be producing about 75
>> US gallons a day(again Hopefully)
>>
>> wish me luck
>>
>> Vincent Zadworny
>>
>> Vancouver Canada
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals
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>> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>>
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>> http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
>>
>
>
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Re: [Biofuel] thanks all

[Legal Eagle]

- Original Message - 
From: "Vincent zadworny" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2005 9:48 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] thanks all



Thanks Luc

i will be starting with about 10 to 20 gallons i was going to try the 
ase  - base method that is on the JTF site.


You are refering to the single stage right ? Not the acid base. When 
starting out it is higkly recommended to start with the single stage methode 
before attacking the two stage acid base method. I am going into my second 
year (my completed reactor came on line last  August) and I am swtill going 
with the sigle stage and using NaOH as a catalyst. Others have gone on 
quicker so It is up to you, however a good solid understanding of the single 
satge method is paramount in getting the basic troubleshooting down before 
moving to the acid base method. Check it out:

http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make2.html#whystart



I used to take Chem in high school and have contacted my old teacher.


Chem teacher eh? Get him/her involved. Use words like "esterification" and 
"methyl esters", "NaOH", "KOH" ect. Bait the hook. The more the merrier 
(some even marry her,ha!) and being a chem teacher with all the hub bub that 
the various govt's are making now about "asving a to" of emissions ect this 
could be viewed as a teaching project; "making eco-friendly fuel". Teachers 
can't resist that stuff. You got to sell it a bit though :-).

Shouldn't be too hard a sell, BC seems to be eco-minded.
Have fun, and good fueling.


I will keep my lye dry.


It works better that way :-)
Luc


Thanks again

Vincent Zadworny

Vancouver Canada

Legal Eagle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
G'day Vincent;

That's one heep of a jump from test batches to 100 gals. You sure you 
don't

want to try something in the order of 20-30 liters first ? Only a
suggestion mind you.
All the best, keep your lye dry :-)
Luc
- Original Message ----- 
From: "Vincent zadworny"

To: "biomailinglist"
Sent: Friday, February 04, 2005 12:51 PM
Subject: [Biofuel] thanks all



hello all,

i would like to thank every one who responded to me postings. washing of
the small test batches are going good and am quite confident with the
processes. this weekend i am setting up my BIG system consisting of a 100
US gallon reaction tank. i have 2 of these tanks and will be (hopefully)
expanding to include both of the tanks. I will then be producing about 75
US gallons a day(again Hopefully)

wish me luck

Vincent Zadworny

Vancouver Canada




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Re: [Biofuel] thanks all

[Vincent zadworny]

Thanks Luc
 
i will be starting with about 10 to 20 gallons i was going to try the base  - 
base method that is on the JTF site. I used to take Chem in high school and 
have contacted my old teacher. I will keep my lye dry.
 
 
Thanks again
 
Vincent Zadworny
 
Vancouver Canada

Legal Eagle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
G'day Vincent;

That's one heep of a jump from test batches to 100 gals. You sure you don't 
want to try something in the order of 20-30 liters first ? Only a 
suggestion mind you.
All the best, keep your lye dry :-)
Luc
- Original Message - 
From: "Vincent zadworny" 
To: "biomailinglist" 
Sent: Friday, February 04, 2005 12:51 PM
Subject: [Biofuel] thanks all


> hello all,
>
> i would like to thank every one who responded to me postings. washing of 
> the small test batches are going good and am quite confident with the 
> processes. this weekend i am setting up my BIG system consisting of a 100 
> US gallon reaction tank. i have 2 of these tanks and will be (hopefully) 
> expanding to include both of the tanks. I will then be producing about 75 
> US gallons a day(again Hopefully)
>
> wish me luck
>
> Vincent Zadworny
>
> Vancouver Canada
>
>
>
>
> -
> Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals
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>
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Re: [Biofuel] thanks all

[Legal Eagle]

That's one heep of a jump from test batches to 100 gals. You sure you don't 
want to try something in the order of 20-30 liters first ? Only  a 
suggestion mind you.

All the best, keep your lye dry :-)
Luc
- Original Message - 
From: "Vincent zadworny" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "biomailinglist" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, February 04, 2005 12:51 PM
Subject: [Biofuel] thanks all



hello all,

i would like to thank every one who responded to me postings. washing of 
the small test batches are going good and am quite confident with the 
processes. this weekend i am setting up my BIG system consisting of a 100 
US gallon reaction tank. i have 2 of these tanks and will be (hopefully) 
expanding to include both of the tanks. I will then be producing about 75 
US gallons a day(again Hopefully)


wish me luck

Vincent Zadworny

Vancouver Canada




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[Biofuel] thanks all

[Vincent zadworny]

hello all,
 
 i would like to thank every one who responded to me postings. washing of the 
small test batches are going good and am quite confident with the processes. 
this weekend i am setting up my BIG system consisting of a 100 US gallon 
reaction tank. i have 2 of these tanks and will be (hopefully) expanding to 
include both of the tanks. I will then be producing about 75 US gallons a 
day(again Hopefully)
 
wish me luck
 
Vincent Zadworny
 
Vancouver Canada
 



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RE: [Biofuel] Thanks Peggy, was>agroecological production of biofuelintegratingagroforestry,

[Phillip Wolfe]

Peggy,  Thanks for reposting. I plan to send this info
to my counterparts in Sierra and Kings Canyon Natnl
Forests (near area where I was born and raised).   I
like  Paul's simple explanation of his approach. On
his website he wrote:

"(The concept)..is to "Place bark and wood chips onto
logging roads, and inoculate this wood debris with
mycelia of a mosaic of keystone NATIVE fungal species.
The fungified wood chips prevent silt-flow through the
natural filtration properties of their mycelial
networks, and in the process renew topsoils, spurring
the growth of NATIVE flora and fauna."

Response: I worked on many trail crews in the John
Muir Wilderness and High Sierras.  Our goal was to
minimize human and domestic animal impact via erosian
control and redirecting foot traffic to marked trails.
I imagine Mr. Paul's approach can help revegetation of
old unmarked trails because these unmarked trails are
also paths of unwanted water eroision; and supplement
the traditional log water bars, rock bars we placed
along the trails.

Regards,
Phillip Wolfe




--- Peggy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Hello Rich,
> 
> Paul often lectures on many topics and his
> remediation studies are some
> of his favorite subjects.
> http://www.fungi.com/mycotech/roadrestoration.html
> explains something
> about his petroleum and asphalt remediation trials
> (Internet link begins
> as stated in #2 below) and
> http://www.fungi.com/mycotech/mycova.html
> (which begins as number 2 below from the
> below-mentioned Interent
> address) is also informative and inspirational.  If
> you would like to
> visit with his staff about his work and papers, they
> may be able to
> direct you toward the more defined scientific
> aspects.  He also once
> worked with an industrial group that published their
> results. The
> website http://www.fungiperfecti.com/index2.html has
> a "contact us"
> button which may also be useful if you would like to
> inquire about a
> personal project.  As I said, Paul is interested in
> these kinds of
> projects.
> 
> 1. Fungi PerfectiR: Mushrooms and the ecosystem
> ...expanding agribusiness; it's also a significant
> tool for the
> restoration, replenishment and remediation of
> Earth's overburdened
> ecosphere. Like most people, we at Fungi Perfecti
> are concerned...
> 
> 2. Fungi PerfectiR: road restoration and mushrooms
> ...recreationally users. Along this 500-ft section
> we set up three
> experimental zones for our myco-remediation trials.
> The lower section of
> the road has the greatest slope and the most
> erosion...
> 
> I hope that this helps and let us know if you start
> such a project.
> 
> Best wishes,
> Peggy
>  
> In a message dated 1/7/2005 7:33:57 PM Eastern
> Standard Time,  
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> 
> Peggy,
> 
> Re: your note "I (Peggy) wrote a note about his 
> (Paul)
> work in petroleum-contamination remediation".
> 
> I plan to scan  JTF archives for the petroleum
> remediation information. 
> 
> Thank you  ahead of time for any response.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- Peggy  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > Hello Dave,
> > 
> > I just  got around to reading this post after
> > returning from my leave
> >  before Christmas.  Paul is VERY interested in
> > pursuing biofuels  in
> > relationship to mushrooms and will accept new
> > challenges if  they can be
> > fruitful (Excuse the pun).  Paul is approachable 
> and
> > has the resources
> > to carry on good ideas as well as  support others
> in
> > their mycological
> > pursuits.  Like all  bioscience, mycology
> frontiers
> > offer new approaches
> > to organic  relationships.  Let me know if I can
> be
> > of help.  We  studied
> > with Paul several years ago and look forward to
> >  implementing mycological
> > filters in water purification.  His  research on
> this
> > is also extremely
> > impressive.  Paul  recently corresponded with me
> > concerning relationship
> > between  mushrooms and biofuels.  I wrote a note
> > about his work in
> >  petroleum-contamination remediation for which he
> won
> > due  recognition.
> > He would very much like to participate in a pilot
> >  project and
> > demonstration.  Let me know what you have in 
> mind.
> > 
> > Thanks for you note.
> > 
> > Best  wishes,
> > Peggy
> > 
> > Subject: RE: [Biofuel] agroecological  production
> of
> > biofuel
> > integratingagroforestry, polyculture and 
> mushrooms
> > 
> > Hello Keith,
> > 
> > >Kind of basic  questions.
> > >
> > >I doubt you'll find much of the really  essential
> > mushrooms growing in 
> > >any corn or any other type  of field associated
> with
> > ADM, ie the 
> > >mycorrhizal fungi.  That's probably a good place
> of
> > start. If you get 
> > >that  right you'll probably get everyhing else
> right
> > too, and if you  
> > >don't you won't, no matter what else you do.
> Start
> > here:  
> > >
> > >"Trees and Toadstools" by M.C. Rayner, D.Sc., 
> Faber
> > and Faber, 1945.
> 
>
>http://journeytoforever.org/farm_library.html#rayner
> > >Full 

[Biofuel] Thanks to Lyle

[Eric & Wendy]

Just got back from visiting some friends in Hillsboro, NC and decided to
stop by Piedmont Biofuels Coop. I just want to thanks Lyle for giving me a
tour of the facility and enlightening me as I try to figure out how to start
the Susquehanna Biodiesel Coop in Central PA. I understand that all of the
mover and shakers in our biodiesel world will be at Central Carolina
Community College on January 28 and 29th for a conference. I hope to make a
return to NC for the conferenceÑweather permitting and my husband agreeing
to watch our three year old for the weekend. I really value the camaraderie
among us Ògrease users.Ó It reminds me of my Macintosh buddiesÑalways
willing to help. Once I get some experience under my belt, I look forward to
helping the Ònewbies.Ó

Wendy Adams
Harrisburg, PA
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Re: [biofuel] Thanks!

[Keith Addison]

Dear Mohamed

And my thanks to you, so much, for saying so, but I must protest that 
credit would be due to the whole list, not just to me.

But many thanks all the same, and I'm glad we've been of use to you.

Loughborough... It's a long time since I was there. The town, not the 
university. Please give it my love.

Best wishes

Keith


>Dear Keith Addison
>
>Thank you for setting up this grate forum that has
>provided me with a lot of help in My PhD in Bio Diesel
>Processing, am sure others will agree with me that
>this is a grate job that you are doing and we all
>appreciate it
>Mohamed Hassan(PhD Researcher)
>Chem Eng
>Loughborough University



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Re: [biofuel] Thanks!

[mohamed hassan]

Dear Keith Addison

Thank you for setting up this grate forum that has
provided me with a lot of help in My PhD in Bio Diesel
Processing, am sure others will agree with me that
this is a grate job that you are doing and we all
appreciate it 
Mohamed Hassan(PhD Researcher)
Chem Eng
Loughborough University

 




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Re: [biofuel] Thanks!

[Keith Addison]

>Keith Addison wrote:
> > ... one and all. Biodiesel schmiodiesel, but I really enjoy this list
> > sometimes. Lots of hassle and we don't really have the time it takes
> > to maintain it, but it's worth it. Thanks to all, posters, lurkers,
> > offlisters, everyone.
> >
> > Most sincerely
> >
> > Keith Addison
> > Journey to Forever
> > http://journeytoforever.org/
> > Biofuel list owner
> >
>
>Keith, is this a random thanks, a farewell,

No such luck Martin! :-)

>or did I miss something?

No, nothing special, nor even very unusual, but there was a great 
selection of posts that day, good information, good responses, an 
amazing variety, some really good reads, and, well, really, what an 
extraordinary bunch of people! I enjoyed it, so I thanked them. Hey, 
I've thanked you too like that for what you do for us all. I'll do it 
again - thanks! (For those who don't know it, Martin runs the Biofuel 
list's Extremely Useful Archives, link at the end of the message.)

Regards

Keith


>--
>--
>Martin Klingensmith
>http://infoarchive.net/
>http://nnytech.net/



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Re: [biofuel] Thanks!

[Martin Klingensmith]

Keith Addison wrote:
> ... one and all. Biodiesel schmiodiesel, but I really enjoy this list 
> sometimes. Lots of hassle and we don't really have the time it takes 
> to maintain it, but it's worth it. Thanks to all, posters, lurkers, 
> offlisters, everyone.
> 
> Most sincerely
> 
> Keith Addison
> Journey to Forever
> http://journeytoforever.org/
> Biofuel list owner
> 

Keith, is this a random thanks, a farewell, or did I miss something?

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[biofuel] Thanks!

[Keith Addison]

... one and all. Biodiesel schmiodiesel, but I really enjoy this list 
sometimes. Lots of hassle and we don't really have the time it takes 
to maintain it, but it's worth it. Thanks to all, posters, lurkers, 
offlisters, everyone.

Most sincerely

Keith Addison
Journey to Forever
http://journeytoforever.org/
Biofuel list owner



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Drano - was Re: [biofuel] Thanks Girl Mark et others

[Keith Addison]

lovemydiesel2003 wrote:

>Attaching "other plumbing" to the carboy, huh? Now THAT is an
>intelligent idea ! Having once been into plumbing you would think I
>could have come up with that one,but alas, old age
>Found a suitable jug though, a 5 liter clear HD...2 rated (that's
>what is says on the bottom) in the form of a family sized Mr Clean
>jug. We NEVER use this product normally so I guess the toilet will
>smell Mr cleany for the next little while :).
>I am still in the process of collecting my "tools" to produce my
>first test batch (a total newbie, ha!) The lye is a bit of a trick,
>but then I just skipped through the posts and "discovered" that
>often it is passed off as drain cleaner, so tomorow I am off to the
>hardware store to scope out some "drano" (sodium hydroxide, right?)

Wrong - not Drano. Drano contains aluminum flakes. You need pure 
sodium hydroxide. Try Red Devil.

>In two weeks the garden center will have plenty, but I want to get
>on with a test batch yesterday. I also got to find me a blender with
>a glass bowl at a second hand shop(that too is tomorow) as the one
>we have has a plastic bowl (of course), but good news ! I have also
>discovered that the "diffusor" we have to scent the air with
>essential oils is an aquarium pump. Ha! It's going to be doing
>double duty REAL soon.
>When setting up the Methoxide mixer, a la "methoxide made easy" way
>using the carboy does one insert the airpump end up high in the jug
>so as to just pump air and cause pressure while the "exit" has the
>tube go all the way down to the bottom of the carboy so as to get at
>it all ?

See:
http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_processor5.html#methadd
Simple 5-gallon processor - Adding the methoxide

>(I am going to catch on to all this, just you watch)
>I have also decided that my processor should be 45 liters instead of
>22 liters so that I will be doing something other than only making
>biodiesel. (I want to have time to go out and burn some of it too)
>:-)

Then you'll need a bigger methoxide mixer than 5 litres.

Keith

>Slowly but surely we advance



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[biofuel] Thanks Girl Mark et others

[lovemydiesel2003]

Attaching "other plumbing" to the carboy, huh? Now THAT is an 
intelligent idea ! Having once been into plumbing you would think I 
could have come up with that one,but alas, old age
Found a suitable jug though, a 5 liter clear HD...2 rated (that's 
what is says on the bottom) in the form of a family sized Mr Clean 
jug. We NEVER use this product normally so I guess the toilet will 
smell Mr cleany for the next little while :).
I am still in the process of collecting my "tools" to produce my 
first test batch (a total newbie, ha!) The lye is a bit of a trick, 
but then I just skipped through the posts and "discovered" that 
often it is passed off as drain cleaner, so tomorow I am off to the 
hardware store to scope out some "drano" (sodium hydroxide, right?)
In two weeks the garden center will have plenty, but I want to get 
on with a test batch yesterday. I also got to find me a blender with 
a glass bowl at a second hand shop(that too is tomorow) as the one 
we have has a plastic bowl (of course), but good news ! I have also 
discovered that the "diffusor" we have to scent the air with 
essential oils is an aquarium pump. Ha! It's going to be doing 
double duty REAL soon.
When setting up the Methoxide mixer, a la "methoxide made easy" way 
using the carboy does one insert the airpump end up high in the jug 
so as to just pump air and cause pressure while the "exit" has the 
tube go all the way down to the bottom of the carboy so as to get at 
it all ? (I am going to catch on to all this, just you watch)
I have also decided that my processor should be 45 liters instead of 
22 liters so that I will be doing something other than only making 
biodiesel. (I want to have time to go out and burn some of it too)
:-)
Slowly but surely we advance




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[biofuel] thanks for the info on no till

[Michael Ashton]

i would like to thank everyone for the valuable information they have shared 
on no till farming.  this has definitely made finding the research material 
much more effiicient and timely.   have a wonderful day.
michael

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Re: [biofuel] Thanks Tod.

[Appal Energy]

El gusto es mio.

And not to worry. You're English is easier to understand than two thirds of
the "music" out there.

Todd Swearingen

- Original Message -
From: "Pieter Koole" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 1:17 AM
Subject: [biofuel] Thanks Tod.


> Thank you Tod.
> Sorry about my terrible English.
>
> Pieter Koole
> Netherlands.
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "appalenergy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 1:23 AM
> Subject: [biofuel] Re: Thanks for the answers Tod. Here are some more
> questions.
>
>
> > Peter,
> >
> > > > -Is there a way to do a proper titration on this job?
> > > Why titrate? The feedstock is 100% FFAs.
> > > * To detect how much acid I need to do a proper separation.
> >
> > Don't think you can separate 100% FFAs, at least not unless you want
> > to fractionally distill them by carbon chain length.
> >
> > But I gather you mean "how much acid [you] need to do a proper
> > [esterification]?"
> >
> > Durned good question. We've never tried esterification on 100% FFAs.
> >
> > Maria could probably tell you how high a FFA content she's seen
> > processed at University of Idaho.
> >
> > > All oils are "harmfull" to some extent or another, smothering
> > > whatever they cover. Just that veg oil is slightly less toxic than
> > > fossil.
> > > * I understand that, but my question is : Does it damage the
> > roots, the leaves ? Telling people that I have a harmless
> > weedkiller, sounds at least funny.
> >
> > Inhibits photosynthesis. Not systemic, such as Roundup and other
> > chemical types.
> >
> > Todd Swearingen
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> >
> > Biofuels list archives:
> > http://archive.nnytech.net/
> >
> > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address.
> > To unsubscribe, send an email to:
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
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> >
> >
>
>
>
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>
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>
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>
>


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[biofuel] Thanks Tod.

[Pieter Koole]

Thank you Tod.
Sorry about my terrible English.

Pieter Koole
Netherlands.

- Original Message -
From: "appalenergy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 1:23 AM
Subject: [biofuel] Re: Thanks for the answers Tod. Here are some more
questions.


> Peter,
>
> > > -Is there a way to do a proper titration on this job?
> > Why titrate? The feedstock is 100% FFAs.
> > * To detect how much acid I need to do a proper separation.
>
> Don't think you can separate 100% FFAs, at least not unless you want
> to fractionally distill them by carbon chain length.
>
> But I gather you mean "how much acid [you] need to do a proper
> [esterification]?"
>
> Durned good question. We've never tried esterification on 100% FFAs.
>
> Maria could probably tell you how high a FFA content she's seen
> processed at University of Idaho.
>
> > All oils are "harmfull" to some extent or another, smothering
> > whatever they cover. Just that veg oil is slightly less toxic than
> > fossil.
> > * I understand that, but my question is : Does it damage the
> roots, the leaves ? Telling people that I have a harmless
> weedkiller, sounds at least funny.
>
> Inhibits photosynthesis. Not systemic, such as Roundup and other
> chemical types.
>
> Todd Swearingen
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>
> Biofuels list archives:
> http://archive.nnytech.net/
>
> Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address.
> To unsubscribe, send an email to:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
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>
>


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[biofuel] Thanks for the answers Tod. Here are some more questions.

[Pieter Koole]

> -When I separate the glycerin from the FFA's, can I turn the FFA's 
to biodiesel ?
Yes, using acid esterification.

> -Is there a way to do a proper titration on this job?
Why titrate? The feedstock is 100% FFAs.
* To detect how much acid I need to do a proper separation.

> - I read ( Apal Energy ) that the FFA's should be an effective 
weedkiller. How does it work as a weedkiller and still is not 
hamfull ?
All oils are "harmfull" to some extent or another, smothering 
whatever they cover. Just that veg oil is slightly less toxic than 
fossil.
* I understand that, but my question is : Does it damage the roots, the leaves 
? Telling people that I have a harmless weedkiller, sounds at least funny.

> -Can anyone give me the chemical formula for burning methanol? ( 
methanol is dangerous, but what happens when I burn it?)
Methanol is only dangerous when not used properly. For what purpose 
would you  burn it if you intend to use a recovery system?

CH3OH + O2 + N2 will yield H2O, NOX (nitrogen oxides), CO2 and CO

* You are absolutely right. Silly question from me, but sometime ago, I burned 
some methanol in a fire resistent insulation "blanket" in my living room, just 
to find out, how much heat it would give, and when it would have been enough ( 
which it was ) I could yeast my own homefuel out of raw material like straw. 
After a while, I found some dusty taste in my mouth, and thought it was the 
methanol. But after all, and looking at the formula you gave me ( above ) I 
think it must have been the insulation material.

Todd Swearingen
> Thanks a lot.
> Met vriendelijke groeten,
> Pieter Koole
> Netherlands



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[biofuel] thanks

[Mel Jahnke]

thanks for those of you who gave me help for some basic project info.  i wasn't 
expecting anyone to do the work for me, I just wanted a basic idea to go upon 
to make sure I had something to go on.  I guess some of my questions were dumb, 
orbecause I got sassed by people, but whatever.  If you  don't want to help me, 
then fine.  Just don't get on my case.  I'm trying to make a difference, but I 
need a starting point.  I'm sorry, I know this isn't what this forum is for, I 
just felt that newcomers like me should be able to ask questions to more 
experienced people so I don't make a bonehead of myself by giving huge 
misrepresentations of the facts.  This is a subject that not many people know a 
lot about, and I want to get the information out there, because I think it 
would be useful.  But don't worry, I won't bug you anymore.  I'll take my 
questions to the library from now on.   


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[biofuel] Thanks Kris Was: Politics

[csakima]

It seems you see things almost exactly as I do.

Thanks for showing me that what I see is "at least" one "valid" way to look
at "what's going on".   And I thought I was going crazy and needed to be
"hauled away". (LOL!!)  Maybe I  *still* need to be!! (LOL!!).

Curtis

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- Original Message -
From: Kris Book <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Unless the common man steps up to confront the evil in charge of this world
today, we will all lose what ever rights we cherish. The NWO has steadily
progressed with their agenda, until it is almost too late for us to change
what they've planned.

As distasteful as discussing politics is, I believe that we all better get
involved or the only discussing we'll be doing is how to get off this
planet. We are all victims of the propaganda machine and it breaks my heart
to read that intelligent beings are so easily fooled by the steady diet of
crap that the media feeds us.

How can Americans read proof that Franklin Roosevelt not only knew about the
Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor but, baited them into it to save our economy
and then believe that the current administration is acting ethically and
honestly with this supposed threat in the Middle East. How can we threaten
war for possession of weapons that we also have. In fact, did you know that
just one of our nuke subs has more firepower than all the ordinance used in
WWII.

For me the bottom line is that, we have throughout history been in a battle
between rich and poor. Only now the media has convinced the majority of
people that the rich are looking out for our best interests, and those that
have risen above the poverty level are aiding this misconception, mostly
because they're afraid to lose the comfortable status that they've attained.

The NWO is soon to be a reality, let's do what we can to make it a fair deal
for everyone. The time has come for all of us to get involved in world
politics. Unless every citizen of the world gains the equal rights that
Americans enjoy today, we will all end up with the same rights as the most
abused have. The really weird thing is that one per cent of the world's
population is dictating policy to the other 99%.

The first thing we have to do is put an end to hate for our fellow man. We
are all the same(or almost the same) in body, spirit, and daily needs, so
please speak out until not one human dies of starvation or poor waste
management. The poorest person in the world has the same desire to provide
for his family as you do. We could make a good start by taking a family
outing to the local park and just open a dialog or share your meal with
someone who doesn't look just like you do.

 Peace,
 kris

 BTW, I killed 20 people in the name of peace for this country before my
eyes were pried open.


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[biofuel] Thanks Kris!! Was: Saddam unpopular?

[Curtis Sakima]

Thanks Kris!!  I'm glad.  At least "someone" knows
what I've been talking about!!  (lol)

Curtis


--- Kris Book <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
 
These same folks run every government from behind the
scenes. It matters not who wins a war, within a very
short period of time things revert to the same old
ugly mess.

As long we argue about these subjects, we are doing
exactly as the greed mongers want us to do. As long as
whites hate blacks, men control women and kids,
countries dictate to others how to govern their
citizens, etc., we are in reality guarding the prison
gates for them.


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[biofuel] Thanks Keith!! Was: Saddam unpopular?

[Curtis Sakima]

Thanks Keith!!  I'm glad.  At least "someone" knows
what I've been talking about!!  (lol)

Curtis


--- Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

--snip---

Believing that democracy needed wise and hidden
manipulators, Bernays was proud to be a propagandist
and wrote in his book Propaganda: "If we understand
the mechanisms and motives of the group mind, it is
now possible to control and regiment the masses
according to our will without them knowing it." He
called this the "engineering of consent" and proposed
that "those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of 
society constitute an invisible government which is
the true ruling power of our country. . . . In almost
every act of our daily lives, whether in the sphere of
politics or business, in our social conduct or our
ethical thinking, we are dominated by the relatively
small number of persons . . . who pull the wires which
control the public mind."




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Re: Veg oils as chainsaw bar oil was Re: [biofuel] Thanks Kieth

[Appal Energy]

Lecithin is usually removed via centrifuge.

It has been our experience working with local restaurants and
restaurant supply companies that the sales reps do not know which
products in their line of oils and hydrogenated shortenings are
the degummed versions and which are not. In virtually every
instance they had to consult their suppliers to verify. In
several instances their "creamy fry oil" was a non-degummed
variety.

Our interest came primarily from R&D of an all vegetable candle
that we formulated. Problems with wicks carmeling gave cause to
explore the matter.

Todd Swearingen

- Original Message -
From: norris hobson (SRI) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2002 6:56 AM
Subject: RE: Veg oils as chainsaw bar oil was Re: [biofuel]
Thanks Kieth


> I thought all food grade svo had been degummed.  Could you give
more
> info about any gums left and how to remove them etc.
> Norris
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Appal Energy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: 03 September 2002 02:13
> To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Veg oils as chainsaw bar oil was Re: [biofuel] Thanks
Kieth
>
>
> You'll want to make sure that the oil has been degummed
(lecithin
> gums removed). That's a tuff one to insure even with SVO. Even
> most of the distributors of fryer oils to restaurants are
> clueless as to whether or not the oil is degummed. The stuff is
> murder on deep fat fryers.
>
> Lecithin, while in light doses can behave as a mold release or
> lubricant, tends to congeal at moderate to high temperatures
and
> build up over time. Most people have seen the end result of
> lecithin exposed to higher temps on their kitchen bakeware. The
> same would occur on a chainsaw bar in the areas most prone to
> heat buildup. Doesn't mean the oil can't be used, just that the
> bar will have to be monitored tacky gum residue and possibly
> cleaned with greater frequency.
>
> Todd Swearingen
>
> - Original Message -
> From: T. Gray Shaw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: Monday, September 02, 2002 1:13 PM
> Subject: Re: [biofuel] Thanks Kieth
>
>
> > Thanks for the tip about using veggie oil as bar oil, Hakan.
> I'm gonna try
> > that.  I bet you could use coarsely filtered WVO.
> >
> > Fungi Perfecti (http://www.fungi.com/) in Olympia, WA sells
> > spore-inoculated bar oil, one for softwoods and one for
> hardwoods.  Saves a
> > step when you're gonna grow culinary shrooms on logs.
> >
> > - Gray
> >
> > >Apart from running 2-stroke engines on mix of ethanol/veg
oil,
> the chain
> > >saw is a different thing. For some decades now, I use veg
oil
> for lubricating
> > >the saw blade. In Sweden, it is now a standard to do that
and
> almost all
> > >do it. When you buy a chain saw they recommend it now. From
a
> pollution
> > >point this is very important, since the blade lubrication
goes
> directly to
> > >the surrounding earth.
> > >
> > >Hakan
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >   Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > ADVERTISEMENT
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> >
> > Biofuels list archives:
> > http://archive.nnytech.net/
> >
> > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address.
> > To unsubscribe, send an email to:
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.
> >
> >
>
>
>
> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>
> Biofuels list archives:
> http://archive.nnytech.net/
>
> Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address.
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>
>
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>
>
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RE: Veg oils as chainsaw bar oil was Re: [biofuel] Thanks Kieth

[norris hobson (SRI)]

I thought all food grade svo had been degummed.  Could you give more 
info about any gums left and how to remove them etc.
Norris

-Original Message-
From: Appal Energy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 03 September 2002 02:13
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Veg oils as chainsaw bar oil was Re: [biofuel] Thanks Kieth


You'll want to make sure that the oil has been degummed (lecithin
gums removed). That's a tuff one to insure even with SVO. Even
most of the distributors of fryer oils to restaurants are
clueless as to whether or not the oil is degummed. The stuff is
murder on deep fat fryers.

Lecithin, while in light doses can behave as a mold release or
lubricant, tends to congeal at moderate to high temperatures and
build up over time. Most people have seen the end result of
lecithin exposed to higher temps on their kitchen bakeware. The
same would occur on a chainsaw bar in the areas most prone to
heat buildup. Doesn't mean the oil can't be used, just that the
bar will have to be monitored tacky gum residue and possibly
cleaned with greater frequency.

Todd Swearingen

- Original Message -
From: T. Gray Shaw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Monday, September 02, 2002 1:13 PM
Subject: Re: [biofuel] Thanks Kieth


> Thanks for the tip about using veggie oil as bar oil, Hakan.
I'm gonna try
> that.  I bet you could use coarsely filtered WVO.
>
> Fungi Perfecti (http://www.fungi.com/) in Olympia, WA sells
> spore-inoculated bar oil, one for softwoods and one for
hardwoods.  Saves a
> step when you're gonna grow culinary shrooms on logs.
>
> - Gray
>
> >Apart from running 2-stroke engines on mix of ethanol/veg oil,
the chain
> >saw is a different thing. For some decades now, I use veg oil
for lubricating
> >the saw blade. In Sweden, it is now a standard to do that and
almost all
> >do it. When you buy a chain saw they recommend it now. From a
pollution
> >point this is very important, since the blade lubrication goes
directly to
> >the surrounding earth.
> >
> >Hakan
>
>
>
>
>   Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ADVERTISEMENT
>
>
>
>
> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>
> Biofuels list archives:
> http://archive.nnytech.net/
>
> Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address.
> To unsubscribe, send an email to:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>



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Veg oils as chainsaw bar oil was Re: [biofuel] Thanks Kieth

[Appal Energy]

You'll want to make sure that the oil has been degummed (lecithin
gums removed). That's a tuff one to insure even with SVO. Even
most of the distributors of fryer oils to restaurants are
clueless as to whether or not the oil is degummed. The stuff is
murder on deep fat fryers.

Lecithin, while in light doses can behave as a mold release or
lubricant, tends to congeal at moderate to high temperatures and
build up over time. Most people have seen the end result of
lecithin exposed to higher temps on their kitchen bakeware. The
same would occur on a chainsaw bar in the areas most prone to
heat buildup. Doesn't mean the oil can't be used, just that the
bar will have to be monitored tacky gum residue and possibly
cleaned with greater frequency.

Todd Swearingen

- Original Message -
From: T. Gray Shaw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Monday, September 02, 2002 1:13 PM
Subject: Re: [biofuel] Thanks Kieth


> Thanks for the tip about using veggie oil as bar oil, Hakan.
I'm gonna try
> that.  I bet you could use coarsely filtered WVO.
>
> Fungi Perfecti (http://www.fungi.com/) in Olympia, WA sells
> spore-inoculated bar oil, one for softwoods and one for
hardwoods.  Saves a
> step when you're gonna grow culinary shrooms on logs.
>
> - Gray
>
> >Apart from running 2-stroke engines on mix of ethanol/veg oil,
the chain
> >saw is a different thing. For some decades now, I use veg oil
for lubricating
> >the saw blade. In Sweden, it is now a standard to do that and
almost all
> >do it. When you buy a chain saw they recommend it now. From a
pollution
> >point this is very important, since the blade lubrication goes
directly to
> >the surrounding earth.
> >
> >Hakan
>
>
>
>
>   Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ADVERTISEMENT
>
>
>
>
> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>
> Biofuels list archives:
> http://archive.nnytech.net/
>
> Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address.
> To unsubscribe, send an email to:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>


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Re: [biofuel] Thanks Kieth

[T. Gray Shaw]

Thanks for the tip about using veggie oil as bar oil, Hakan.  I'm gonna try
that.  I bet you could use coarsely filtered WVO.

Fungi Perfecti (http://www.fungi.com/) in Olympia, WA sells
spore-inoculated bar oil, one for softwoods and one for hardwoods.  Saves a
step when you're gonna grow culinary shrooms on logs.

- Gray

>Apart from running 2-stroke engines on mix of ethanol/veg oil, the chain
>saw is a different thing. For some decades now, I use veg oil for lubricating
>the saw blade. In Sweden, it is now a standard to do that and almost all
>do it. When you buy a chain saw they recommend it now. From a pollution
>point this is very important, since the blade lubrication goes directly to
>the surrounding earth.
>
>Hakan




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RE: [biofuel] Thanks Kieth

[Hakan Falk]

I am taken off the list by the answers from Rod.Stalenberg (BP) to me
personally. I think that this is an important issue and would like to have
some qualified responses from list members that knows more about the
issues of dispersion of vegetable oil etc. Therefore the email is not edited
(trimmed) except that I will try to removed Yahoo advertising from now on.

Hakan

At 10:31 AM 9/2/2002 +1000, you wrote:
>I work for BP and no used motor oil is added to any commercial product .
>
>Rerefined lube base oils generally have lead stripped out during crack
>process .
>
>Regards Rod   0297954870
>d:^)
>
>
>-Original Message-
>From: Hakan Falk [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Sent: Monday, 2 September 2002 10:28 AM
>To: Stalenberg, Rod
>Subject: RE: [biofuel] Thanks Kieth
>
>
>
>Sorry Rod,
>
>I was told that used motor oil had Led in it and since chain saw
>oil is a product from used motor oil, I assumed that this was the
>case. I also thought that this was one of the expressed advantages
>with chain saw oil, you remember the sticky thing. I am sorry if I
>went wrong on this point.
>
>You did not really explain this about "It will still poison the earth".
>At least not in a way that I understood. I thought that vegetable oil
>did disperse more naturally and easy than fossil oil.
>
>For paint, I thought that Titan is the most used mix, much for coloring
>reasons. We are favoring paint containing aluminium instead of
>Titan, mainly because of the large difference in emission factor and
>the 15-20% energy saving it can give in buildings. Not to talk about
>a higher sense of comfort.
>
>Hakan
>
>At 09:59 AM 9/2/2002 +1000, you wrote:
> >Oils in the environment must diperse to dissapear .
> >
> >No oil is healthy for ingestion but if you must use oil for cooking and
> >lubricating food stuffs ,olive oil is used because of higher
>polyunsaturates
> >. Mineral oil is highly saturated and not very healthy to intake .
> >
> >
> >There is no lead in any oils . These were added to  paints and fuels only .
> >
> >Regards Rod   0297954870
> >d:^)
> >
> >
> >-Original Message-
> >From: Hakan Falk [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >Sent: Monday, 2 September 2002 9:45 AM
> >To: Stalenberg, Rod
> >Subject: RE: [biofuel] Thanks Kieth
> >
> >
> >
> >Rod.
> >
> >Very interesting statement, if it is correct. Then many arguments for
> >vegetable oils will fall apart. I probably eat an equivalent concentration,
> >of
> >what is spread on the ground by cutting a tree, with my salad. I am using
> >olive oil and they say that it is good for my heart. I never tried motor
> >oil,
> >but if it is the same, at least it would be interesting to try.
> >
> >Then it is remarkable that Husqvarna  and other manufacturers of chain saws
> >recommend use of vegetable oil in Sweden. They have done so for the last
> >15+ years. If you look at a field of rape or sunflowers, you are saying
> >that it
> >is poisoning the world, I did not know that so please expand on this. The
> >same
> >can be said about many sources of vegetable oil. I know that Pine trees is
> >killing under vegetation with turpentine, but I did not know or have the
> >experience
> >that oil plants or trees did something similar. Since the concentration is
> >much
> >higher in the seed than the spill from a chain saw.
> >
> >One of the most serious poisoning from fossil oils, used for lubrication,
> >is the
> >content of Led. I did not know that we had the same problem with vegetable
> >oils.
> >It is removed from newer gasoline, but it needed newer engines. For
> >lubrication
> >oils it is still there, if I am not misinformed. Led is one of the most
> >poisoning
> >metals we have.
> >
> >I am not a great expert on this issues. Although I did well in physics and
> >biology,
> >chemistry was never a strong point. I am trying to learn from this board,
> >where
> >I find many that are good on chemistry. I have a good friend who not only
> >are
> >chemist but also is a specialist on nutrition. He is running a Spanish web
> >site on
> >this issues ( http://chemedia.com ) and I will ask him too.
> >
> >Looking forward to your response.
> >
> >Hakan
> >
> >At 08:49 AM 9/2/2002 +1000, you wrote:
> > >Vegetable oil is no more biodegradable than mineral in concentrated form
>.
> > >It will still poison the earth!
> > >
> > >The chain oil needs to have a tackifier in order to stick to blade
> >otherwise
&g

RE: [biofuel] Thanks Kieth

[Hakan Falk]

Sorry Rod,

I was told that used motor oil had Led in it and since chain saw
oil is a product from used motor oil, I assumed that this was the
case. I also thought that this was one of the expressed advantages
with chain saw oil, you remember the sticky thing. I am sorry if I
went wrong on this point.

You did not really explain this about "It will still poison the earth".
At least not in a way that I understood. I thought that vegetable oil
did disperse more naturally and easy than fossil oil.

For paint, I thought that Titan is the most used mix, much for coloring
reasons. We are favoring paint containing aluminium instead of
Titan, mainly because of the large difference in emission factor and
the 15-20% energy saving it can give in buildings. Not to talk about
a higher sense of comfort.

Hakan

At 09:59 AM 9/2/2002 +1000, you wrote:
>Oils in the environment must diperse to dissapear .
>
>No oil is healthy for ingestion but if you must use oil for cooking and
>lubricating food stuffs ,olive oil is used because of higher polyunsaturates
>. Mineral oil is highly saturated and not very healthy to intake .
>
>
>There is no lead in any oils . These were added to  paints and fuels only .
>
>Regards Rod   0297954870
>d:^)
>
>
>-Original Message-
>From: Hakan Falk [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Sent: Monday, 2 September 2002 9:45 AM
>To: Stalenberg, Rod
>Subject: RE: [biofuel] Thanks Kieth
>
>
>
>Rod.
>
>Very interesting statement, if it is correct. Then many arguments for
>vegetable oils will fall apart. I probably eat an equivalent concentration,
>of
>what is spread on the ground by cutting a tree, with my salad. I am using
>olive oil and they say that it is good for my heart. I never tried motor
>oil,
>but if it is the same, at least it would be interesting to try.
>
>Then it is remarkable that Husqvarna  and other manufacturers of chain saws
>recommend use of vegetable oil in Sweden. They have done so for the last
>15+ years. If you look at a field of rape or sunflowers, you are saying
>that it
>is poisoning the world, I did not know that so please expand on this. The
>same
>can be said about many sources of vegetable oil. I know that Pine trees is
>killing under vegetation with turpentine, but I did not know or have the
>experience
>that oil plants or trees did something similar. Since the concentration is
>much
>higher in the seed than the spill from a chain saw.
>
>One of the most serious poisoning from fossil oils, used for lubrication,
>is the
>content of Led. I did not know that we had the same problem with vegetable
>oils.
>It is removed from newer gasoline, but it needed newer engines. For
>lubrication
>oils it is still there, if I am not misinformed. Led is one of the most
>poisoning
>metals we have.
>
>I am not a great expert on this issues. Although I did well in physics and
>biology,
>chemistry was never a strong point. I am trying to learn from this board,
>where
>I find many that are good on chemistry. I have a good friend who not only
>are
>chemist but also is a specialist on nutrition. He is running a Spanish web
>site on
>this issues ( http://chemedia.com ) and I will ask him too.
>
>Looking forward to your response.
>
>Hakan
>
>At 08:49 AM 9/2/2002 +1000, you wrote:
> >Vegetable oil is no more biodegradable than mineral in concentrated form .
> >It will still poison the earth!
> >
> >The chain oil needs to have a tackifier in order to stick to blade
>otherwise
> >you will use too much .If you cannot source such a polymer than commercial
> >chain oil will be more efficient and of lower consumption.
> >
> >
> >Regards Rod   0297954870
> >d:^)
> >
> >
> >-Original Message-
> >From: Hakan Falk [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >Sent: Friday, 30 August 2002 9:42 PM
> >To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: Re: [biofuel] Thanks Kieth
> >
> >
> >
> >Apart from running 2-stroke engines on mix of ethanol/veg oil, the chain
> >saw is a different thing. For some decades now, I use veg oil for
> >lubricating
> >the saw blade. In Sweden, it is now a standard to do that and almost all
> >do it. When you buy a chain saw they recommend it now. From a pollution
> >point this is very important, since the blade lubrication goes directly to
> >the surrounding earth.
> >
> >Hakan
> >
> >At 05:57 PM 8/28/2002 +1000, you wrote:
> > >  great... thanks for the info Keith..Im going to give that one a try..
>Im
> > > trying to getaway from non-renewable fuel... so the biodesel and
> > > ethonol  mix i think i will work on. Thanks again!
> > >--
> > >
> >

Re: [biofuel] Thanks Keith

[Steve Spence]

FYI (not affiliated)

Greenoco Bar and Chain Oil is a multigrade product that is based on canola
oil rather than petroleum oil, with the right viscosity, tackiness and flow
qualities for the full range of professional chain saw applications. Its
efficacy is confirmed by routine use over a period of several years both
here and abroad, and by independent tests that include a major chain saw
manufacturer (see below). These qualities are achieved through the use of
high performance, petroleum-free additives that makes Greenoco products
operate at higher and lower operating temperatures with better flow
properties and less gumming, while remaining toxicologically safe and
actually less costly to use as compared to petroleum chain saw oils.

http://www.greenoil-online.com

Steve Spence
Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter
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[EMAIL PROTECTED]
- Original Message -
From: "Hakan Falk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Friday, August 30, 2002 11:13 PM
Subject: Re: [biofuel] Thanks Keith


>
> Thank you for the data Ed, because I did never really research it.
> I can belive the bar and chain life extension, but it is not my
> experience that it reduces my work with sharpening.
>
> Given the amount of usage and the serious pollution, we do have
> one silver bullet here. It is obviously that important and urgent
> matter, that the politicians easily can legislate and ban the use
> of fossil oil for this type of applications.
>
> Such a ban would not have financial impact nor a technical, but
> would help to clean up the environment. It would also give a small
> but still an injection to the producers of veg oil.
>
> I have not much to do about this in Sweden, since they already are
> using veg oil. But the US and Canadian (and other wood producing
> countries) members of this list could try to apply some political
> pressures here. It is a chance to success, because it is a win - win
> situation for the politicians also. It is the kind of issue they like, not
> to large but with a lot of good publicity. Many small steps will lead to a
> bigger change.
>
> Hakan
>
> At 12:50 PM 8/30/2002 -0700, you wrote:
>
> >Canola/rapeseed it the better lubricant of the two. Various companies
also
> >do Canola-based with additive packages to improve performance, winter and
> >summer grades, etc. They might make cleaning easier, too - or perhaps use
> >some biodiesel for cleanup, since it is also such a good lubricant.
> >
> >Bar and Chain life and time between sharpenings are often claimed to be
> >greatly improved.
> >
> >One interesting number I came across in researching this is for Canada,
via
> >the "EcoLogo" web site (our environmental labeling organization here -
the
> >'three doves" logo).
> >
> >They say that about 6 kilotonnes of bar and chain oil are used each year
in
> >Canada in logging - and that does not include all the small users
> >(homeowners, cottagers, farmers).
> >
> >That all goes  onto the ground, into the water. Granted, it is dispersed,
> >but almost all of that is used motor oil that someone has taken the
trouble
> >to take to a recycling depot (using fuel) - then it is trucked to a
refinery
> >(using more fuel), refined and colored (using more energy), repackaged
(more
> >plastic and energy), and then sent out to market (more fuel)
> >
> >
> >after all that, we allow a million or so worth of "oil changes" to be
> >done onto the forest floor all across the country, and the company doing
the
> >selling sells the same product twice over and gets to call it an
> >eco-friendly solution because they are using used motor oil!
> >
> >  New or used Canola or other vegoils would be a better strategy, with
> >additive package, if needed. A blend of mostly new oil would probably
best
> >technically and give the greatest increase in bar and chain life (both on
> >chainsaws and tree harvesters)
> >
> >
> >Edward Beggs
> >http://www.biofuels.ca
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >on 8/30/02 10:04 AM, Hakan Falk at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Ed is right, but many times I have bought sunflower oil in the food
> > > store and used it. I also use the manual feed button on the chain saw
> > > frequently to give it some extra cooling and lubrication. Do clean the
> > > blade carefully directly after use, which you always should do anyway.
> > > Veg oil do create some minor cleaning problems, if you let it cool
down.
> > >
> > > Hakan
> > >
> > >

Re: [biofuel] Thanks Keith

[Hakan Falk]

Thank you for the data Ed, because I did never really research it.
I can belive the bar and chain life extension, but it is not my
experience that it reduces my work with sharpening.

Given the amount of usage and the serious pollution, we do have
one silver bullet here. It is obviously that important and urgent
matter, that the politicians easily can legislate and ban the use
of fossil oil for this type of applications.

Such a ban would not have financial impact nor a technical, but
would help to clean up the environment. It would also give a small
but still an injection to the producers of veg oil.

I have not much to do about this in Sweden, since they already are
using veg oil. But the US and Canadian (and other wood producing
countries) members of this list could try to apply some political
pressures here. It is a chance to success, because it is a win - win
situation for the politicians also. It is the kind of issue they like, not
to large but with a lot of good publicity. Many small steps will lead to a
bigger change.

Hakan

At 12:50 PM 8/30/2002 -0700, you wrote:

>Canola/rapeseed it the better lubricant of the two. Various companies also
>do Canola-based with additive packages to improve performance, winter and
>summer grades, etc. They might make cleaning easier, too - or perhaps use
>some biodiesel for cleanup, since it is also such a good lubricant.
>
>Bar and Chain life and time between sharpenings are often claimed to be
>greatly improved.
>
>One interesting number I came across in researching this is for Canada, via
>the "EcoLogo" web site (our environmental labeling organization here - the
>'three doves" logo).
>
>They say that about 6 kilotonnes of bar and chain oil are used each year in
>Canada in logging - and that does not include all the small users
>(homeowners, cottagers, farmers).
>
>That all goes  onto the ground, into the water. Granted, it is dispersed,
>but almost all of that is used motor oil that someone has taken the trouble
>to take to a recycling depot (using fuel) - then it is trucked to a refinery
>(using more fuel), refined and colored (using more energy), repackaged (more
>plastic and energy), and then sent out to market (more fuel)
>
>
>after all that, we allow a million or so worth of "oil changes" to be
>done onto the forest floor all across the country, and the company doing the
>selling sells the same product twice over and gets to call it an
>eco-friendly solution because they are using used motor oil!
>
>  New or used Canola or other vegoils would be a better strategy, with
>additive package, if needed. A blend of mostly new oil would probably best
>technically and give the greatest increase in bar and chain life (both on
>chainsaws and tree harvesters)
>
>
>Edward Beggs
>http://www.biofuels.ca
>
>
>
>
>on 8/30/02 10:04 AM, Hakan Falk at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> >
> > Ed is right, but many times I have bought sunflower oil in the food
> > store and used it. I also use the manual feed button on the chain saw
> > frequently to give it some extra cooling and lubrication. Do clean the
> > blade carefully directly after use, which you always should do anyway.
> > Veg oil do create some minor cleaning problems, if you let it cool down.
> >
> > Hakan
> >
> >
> > At 08:06 AM 8/30/2002 -0700, you wrote:
> >> Canola or rapeseed (virtually the same in fuel and lubricant applications)
> >> is what is normally used.
> >>
> >> Edward Beggs
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> on 8/30/02 6:22 AM, Kim & Garth Travis at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >>
> >>> Is there any particular kind of vegetable oil that is recommended?
> >>> Thanks for the info, I will be changing over, immediately.
> >>> Bright Blessings,
> >>> Kim
> >>>
> >>> Hakan Falk wrote:
> >>>
> 
>  Apart from running 2-stroke engines on mix of ethanol/veg oil, the chain
>  saw is a different thing. For some decades now, I use veg oil for
>  lubricating
>  the saw blade. In Sweden, it is now a standard to do that and almost all
>  do it. When you buy a chain saw they recommend it now. From a pollution
>  point this is very important, since the blade lubrication goes 
> directly to
>  the surrounding earth.
> 
>  Hakan
> 
>  At 05:57 PM 8/28/2002 +1000, you wrote:
> >  great... thanks for the info Keith..Im going to give that one a
>  try.. Im
> > trying to getaway from non-renewable fuel... so the biodesel and
> > ethonol  mix i think i will work on. Thanks again!
> > --
> >
> > On Tue, 27 Aug 2002 15:47:49   Keith Addison wrote:
> >>> --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "bendo4000" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  Im exploring the idea of ethonol conversions on my farm equipment. I
>  have found many sites converting standard 4 stroke engines to
> >>> ethanol.
>  I was interested if anyone has had any luck converting 2 stroke
>  lawnmowers , edgers, chainsaws, generators even 2 stroke trail
> >>> bikes.
>  I ca

Re: [biofuel] Thanks Kieth

[Neoteric Biofuels Inc.]

Canola/rapeseed it the better lubricant of the two. Various companies also
do Canola-based with additive packages to improve performance, winter and
summer grades, etc. They might make cleaning easier, too - or perhaps use
some biodiesel for cleanup, since it is also such a good lubricant.

Bar and Chain life and time between sharpenings are often claimed to be
greatly improved.

One interesting number I came across in researching this is for Canada, via
the "EcoLogo" web site (our environmental labeling organization here - the
'three doves" logo).

They say that about 6 kilotonnes of bar and chain oil are used each year in
Canada in logging - and that does not include all the small users
(homeowners, cottagers, farmers).

That all goes  onto the ground, into the water. Granted, it is dispersed,
but almost all of that is used motor oil that someone has taken the trouble
to take to a recycling depot (using fuel) - then it is trucked to a refinery
(using more fuel), refined and colored (using more energy), repackaged (more
plastic and energy), and then sent out to market (more fuel)


after all that, we allow a million or so worth of "oil changes" to be
done onto the forest floor all across the country, and the company doing the
selling sells the same product twice over and gets to call it an
eco-friendly solution because they are using used motor oil!

 New or used Canola or other vegoils would be a better strategy, with
additive package, if needed. A blend of mostly new oil would probably best
technically and give the greatest increase in bar and chain life (both on
chainsaws and tree harvesters)


Edward Beggs
http://www.biofuels.ca




on 8/30/02 10:04 AM, Hakan Falk at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> 
> Ed is right, but many times I have bought sunflower oil in the food
> store and used it. I also use the manual feed button on the chain saw
> frequently to give it some extra cooling and lubrication. Do clean the
> blade carefully directly after use, which you always should do anyway.
> Veg oil do create some minor cleaning problems, if you let it cool down.
> 
> Hakan
> 
> 
> At 08:06 AM 8/30/2002 -0700, you wrote:
>> Canola or rapeseed (virtually the same in fuel and lubricant applications)
>> is what is normally used.
>> 
>> Edward Beggs
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> on 8/30/02 6:22 AM, Kim & Garth Travis at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>> 
>>> Is there any particular kind of vegetable oil that is recommended?
>>> Thanks for the info, I will be changing over, immediately.
>>> Bright Blessings,
>>> Kim
>>> 
>>> Hakan Falk wrote:
>>> 
 
 Apart from running 2-stroke engines on mix of ethanol/veg oil, the chain
 saw is a different thing. For some decades now, I use veg oil for
 lubricating
 the saw blade. In Sweden, it is now a standard to do that and almost all
 do it. When you buy a chain saw they recommend it now. From a pollution
 point this is very important, since the blade lubrication goes directly to
 the surrounding earth.
 
 Hakan
 
 At 05:57 PM 8/28/2002 +1000, you wrote:
>  great... thanks for the info Keith..Im going to give that one a
 try.. Im
> trying to getaway from non-renewable fuel... so the biodesel and
> ethonol  mix i think i will work on. Thanks again!
> --
> 
> On Tue, 27 Aug 2002 15:47:49   Keith Addison wrote:
>>> --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "bendo4000" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
 Im exploring the idea of ethonol conversions on my farm equipment. I
 have found many sites converting standard 4 stroke engines to
>>> ethanol.
 I was interested if anyone has had any luck converting 2 stroke
 lawnmowers , edgers, chainsaws, generators even 2 stroke trail
>>> bikes.
 I cant see any problems with the mix  according to a biodiesel
>>> mix
 you can combime ethanol and veg oil has anyone out there had any
 luck???
 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]   any info would be much apreciated! even if its
 just a "it worked for me" thanks for ur trouble!
>>> 
>>> Can't help re. your ethanol query, however I have heard reports of
>>> people using biodiesel as two-stroke oil with gasoline (in chainsaws
>>> etc.)
>>> 
>>> Mike
>> 
>> We have had some reports of using biodiesel as 2-stroke oil. It's a
>> super lubricator and seems to work fine. Older engines might need a
>> higher mix ratio - one earlier message advised:
>> 
>> "Old two-stroke engines like yours usually have bronze wrist pin
 bearings
>> and thus require a richer oil mixture to adequately lube that bushing.
>> Incidentally in a two stroke you will often find the wrist pin
 bearing fails
>> first from poor lubrication (It is just much harder to get the oil
 into it!)
>>  I would recommend at least to stick with the 20-1 or even 15-1
 seeing as
>> biodiesel is a "thinner" oil than normal two-stroke oil. I 

Re: [biofuel] Thanks Kieth

[Hakan Falk]

Ed is right, but many times I have bought sunflower oil in the food
store and used it. I also use the manual feed button on the chain saw
frequently to give it some extra cooling and lubrication. Do clean the
blade carefully directly after use, which you always should do anyway.
Veg oil do create some minor cleaning problems, if you let it cool down.

Hakan


At 08:06 AM 8/30/2002 -0700, you wrote:
>Canola or rapeseed (virtually the same in fuel and lubricant applications)
>is what is normally used.
>
>Edward Beggs
>
>
>
>on 8/30/02 6:22 AM, Kim & Garth Travis at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> > Is there any particular kind of vegetable oil that is recommended?
> > Thanks for the info, I will be changing over, immediately.
> > Bright Blessings,
> > Kim
> >
> > Hakan Falk wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> Apart from running 2-stroke engines on mix of ethanol/veg oil, the chain
> >> saw is a different thing. For some decades now, I use veg oil for
> >> lubricating
> >> the saw blade. In Sweden, it is now a standard to do that and almost all
> >> do it. When you buy a chain saw they recommend it now. From a pollution
> >> point this is very important, since the blade lubrication goes directly to
> >> the surrounding earth.
> >>
> >> Hakan
> >>
> >> At 05:57 PM 8/28/2002 +1000, you wrote:
> >>>  great... thanks for the info Keith..Im going to give that one a
> >> try.. Im
> >>> trying to getaway from non-renewable fuel... so the biodesel and
> >>> ethonol  mix i think i will work on. Thanks again!
> >>> --
> >>>
> >>> On Tue, 27 Aug 2002 15:47:49   Keith Addison wrote:
> > --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "bendo4000" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> Im exploring the idea of ethonol conversions on my farm equipment. I
> >> have found many sites converting standard 4 stroke engines to
> > ethanol.
> >> I was interested if anyone has had any luck converting 2 stroke
> >> lawnmowers , edgers, chainsaws, generators even 2 stroke trail
> > bikes.
> >> I cant see any problems with the mix  according to a biodiesel
> > mix
> >> you can combime ethanol and veg oil has anyone out there had any
> >> luck???
> >>
> >> [EMAIL PROTECTED]   any info would be much apreciated! even if its
> >> just a "it worked for me" thanks for ur trouble!
> >
> > Can't help re. your ethanol query, however I have heard reports of
> > people using biodiesel as two-stroke oil with gasoline (in chainsaws
> > etc.)
> >
> > Mike
> 
>  We have had some reports of using biodiesel as 2-stroke oil. It's a
>  super lubricator and seems to work fine. Older engines might need a
>  higher mix ratio - one earlier message advised:
> 
>  "Old two-stroke engines like yours usually have bronze wrist pin
> >> bearings
>  and thus require a richer oil mixture to adequately lube that bushing.
>  Incidentally in a two stroke you will often find the wrist pin
> >> bearing fails
>  first from poor lubrication (It is just much harder to get the oil
> >> into it!)
>   I would recommend at least to stick with the 20-1 or even 15-1
> >> seeing as
>  biodiesel is a "thinner" oil than normal two-stroke oil. I have no
> >> idea what
>  effect bio-diesel would have on the octane of gasoline but it
> >> probably isn't
>  so important on old engines because they usually have a very low c/r
> >>> anyway."
> 
>  Actually it turns out biodiesel isn't thinner than standard 2-stroke
>  oil, or not by much.
> 
>  New engines need what, 50:1 or less? Try it and see, start with a
>  higher ratio than recommended for standard oil. At least one list
>  member uses biodiesel with his chain saw, no problems when last we
>  heard.
> 
>  You can mix vegetable oil with anhydrous ethanol, and 95% ethanol
>  will do as well, probably even 160-proof with such small amounts of
>  oil, and ethanol and biodiesel mix even better, stable mix, so you
>  should have no problems, no need for blending additives.
> 
>  Castor oil was the traditional 2-stroke lube, and it's still used in
>  racing I think. Expensive though. If I had a 2-stroke now I'd want to
>  be using ethanol and biodiesel. When I did have a 2-stroke I often
>  used fuel ethanol in it, no problem. No biodiesel then (that was 40
>  years ago).
> 
>  Best
> 
>  Keith
> 
> 
> 
>  Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
>  http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> 
>  Biofuels list archives:
>  http://archive.nnytech.net/
> 
>  Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address.
>  To unsubscribe, send an email to:
>  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
>  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> >> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> 
> 
> 
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Join 18 million Eudora users by signing up for a free Eudora Web-Mail
> >>> account at http://www.eudoramail.com
> 

Re: [biofuel] Thanks Kieth

[Neoteric Biofuels Inc.]

Canola or rapeseed (virtually the same in fuel and lubricant applications)
is what is normally used.

Edward Beggs 



on 8/30/02 6:22 AM, Kim & Garth Travis at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> Is there any particular kind of vegetable oil that is recommended?
> Thanks for the info, I will be changing over, immediately.
> Bright Blessings,
> Kim
> 
> Hakan Falk wrote:
> 
>> 
>> Apart from running 2-stroke engines on mix of ethanol/veg oil, the chain
>> saw is a different thing. For some decades now, I use veg oil for
>> lubricating
>> the saw blade. In Sweden, it is now a standard to do that and almost all
>> do it. When you buy a chain saw they recommend it now. From a pollution
>> point this is very important, since the blade lubrication goes directly to
>> the surrounding earth.
>> 
>> Hakan
>> 
>> At 05:57 PM 8/28/2002 +1000, you wrote:
>>>  great... thanks for the info Keith..Im going to give that one a
>> try.. Im
>>> trying to getaway from non-renewable fuel... so the biodesel and
>>> ethonol  mix i think i will work on. Thanks again!
>>> --
>>> 
>>> On Tue, 27 Aug 2002 15:47:49   Keith Addison wrote:
> --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "bendo4000" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Im exploring the idea of ethonol conversions on my farm equipment. I
>> have found many sites converting standard 4 stroke engines to
> ethanol.
>> I was interested if anyone has had any luck converting 2 stroke
>> lawnmowers , edgers, chainsaws, generators even 2 stroke trail
> bikes.
>> I cant see any problems with the mix  according to a biodiesel
> mix
>> you can combime ethanol and veg oil has anyone out there had any
>> luck???
>> 
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]   any info would be much apreciated! even if its
>> just a "it worked for me" thanks for ur trouble!
> 
> Can't help re. your ethanol query, however I have heard reports of
> people using biodiesel as two-stroke oil with gasoline (in chainsaws
> etc.)
> 
> Mike
 
 We have had some reports of using biodiesel as 2-stroke oil. It's a
 super lubricator and seems to work fine. Older engines might need a
 higher mix ratio - one earlier message advised:
 
 "Old two-stroke engines like yours usually have bronze wrist pin
>> bearings
 and thus require a richer oil mixture to adequately lube that bushing.
 Incidentally in a two stroke you will often find the wrist pin
>> bearing fails
 first from poor lubrication (It is just much harder to get the oil
>> into it!)
  I would recommend at least to stick with the 20-1 or even 15-1
>> seeing as
 biodiesel is a "thinner" oil than normal two-stroke oil. I have no
>> idea what
 effect bio-diesel would have on the octane of gasoline but it
>> probably isn't
 so important on old engines because they usually have a very low c/r
>>> anyway."
 
 Actually it turns out biodiesel isn't thinner than standard 2-stroke
 oil, or not by much.
 
 New engines need what, 50:1 or less? Try it and see, start with a
 higher ratio than recommended for standard oil. At least one list
 member uses biodiesel with his chain saw, no problems when last we
 heard.
 
 You can mix vegetable oil with anhydrous ethanol, and 95% ethanol
 will do as well, probably even 160-proof with such small amounts of
 oil, and ethanol and biodiesel mix even better, stable mix, so you
 should have no problems, no need for blending additives.
 
 Castor oil was the traditional 2-stroke lube, and it's still used in
 racing I think. Expensive though. If I had a 2-stroke now I'd want to
 be using ethanol and biodiesel. When I did have a 2-stroke I often
 used fuel ethanol in it, no problem. No biodiesel then (that was 40
 years ago).
 
 Best
 
 Keith
 
 
 
 Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
 http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
 
 Biofuels list archives:
 http://archive.nnytech.net/
 
 Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address.
 To unsubscribe, send an email to:
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 
 
 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Join 18 million Eudora users by signing up for a free Eudora Web-Mail
>>> account at http://www.eudoramail.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
>>> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>>> 
>>> Biofuels list archives:
>>> http://archive.nnytech.net/
>>> 
>>> Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address.
>>> To unsubscribe, send an email to:
>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>> 
>>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>> ADVERTISEMENT
>> > 9:HM/A=1189558/R=0/*http://www.bmgmusic.com/acq/ee/q6/enroll/mhn/9/>
>> 
>> 
>> Biofuel at Journ

Re: [biofuel] Thanks Kieth

[Kim & Garth Travis]

Is there any particular kind of vegetable oil that is recommended? 
Thanks for the info, I will be changing over, immediately.
Bright Blessings,
Kim

Hakan Falk wrote:

> 
> Apart from running 2-stroke engines on mix of ethanol/veg oil, the chain
> saw is a different thing. For some decades now, I use veg oil for 
> lubricating
> the saw blade. In Sweden, it is now a standard to do that and almost all
> do it. When you buy a chain saw they recommend it now. From a pollution
> point this is very important, since the blade lubrication goes directly to
> the surrounding earth.
> 
> Hakan
> 
> At 05:57 PM 8/28/2002 +1000, you wrote:
>  >  great... thanks for the info Keith..Im going to give that one a 
> try.. Im
>  > trying to getaway from non-renewable fuel... so the biodesel and
>  > ethonol  mix i think i will work on. Thanks again!
>  >--
>  >
>  >On Tue, 27 Aug 2002 15:47:49   Keith Addison wrote:
>  > >>--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "bendo4000" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  > >> > Im exploring the idea of ethonol conversions on my farm equipment. I
>  > >> > have found many sites converting standard 4 stroke engines to
>  > >>ethanol.
>  > >> > I was interested if anyone has had any luck converting 2 stroke
>  > >> > lawnmowers , edgers, chainsaws, generators even 2 stroke trail
>  > >>bikes.
>  > >> > I cant see any problems with the mix  according to a biodiesel
>  > >>mix
>  > >> > you can combime ethanol and veg oil has anyone out there had any
>  > >> > luck???
>  > >> >
>  > >> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]   any info would be much apreciated! even if its
>  > >> > just a "it worked for me" thanks for ur trouble!
>  > >>
>  > >>Can't help re. your ethanol query, however I have heard reports of
>  > >>people using biodiesel as two-stroke oil with gasoline (in chainsaws
>  > >>etc.)
>  > >>
>  > >>Mike
>  > >
>  > >We have had some reports of using biodiesel as 2-stroke oil. It's a
>  > >super lubricator and seems to work fine. Older engines might need a
>  > >higher mix ratio - one earlier message advised:
>  > >
>  > >"Old two-stroke engines like yours usually have bronze wrist pin 
> bearings
>  > >and thus require a richer oil mixture to adequately lube that bushing.
>  > >Incidentally in a two stroke you will often find the wrist pin 
> bearing fails
>  > >first from poor lubrication (It is just much harder to get the oil 
> into it!)
>  > >  I would recommend at least to stick with the 20-1 or even 15-1 
> seeing as
>  > >biodiesel is a "thinner" oil than normal two-stroke oil. I have no 
> idea what
>  > >effect bio-diesel would have on the octane of gasoline but it 
> probably isn't
>  > >so important on old engines because they usually have a very low c/r
>  > anyway."
>  > >
>  > >Actually it turns out biodiesel isn't thinner than standard 2-stroke
>  > >oil, or not by much.
>  > >
>  > >New engines need what, 50:1 or less? Try it and see, start with a
>  > >higher ratio than recommended for standard oil. At least one list
>  > >member uses biodiesel with his chain saw, no problems when last we
>  > >heard.
>  > >
>  > >You can mix vegetable oil with anhydrous ethanol, and 95% ethanol
>  > >will do as well, probably even 160-proof with such small amounts of
>  > >oil, and ethanol and biodiesel mix even better, stable mix, so you
>  > >should have no problems, no need for blending additives.
>  > >
>  > >Castor oil was the traditional 2-stroke lube, and it's still used in
>  > >racing I think. Expensive though. If I had a 2-stroke now I'd want to
>  > >be using ethanol and biodiesel. When I did have a 2-stroke I often
>  > >used fuel ethanol in it, no problem. No biodiesel then (that was 40
>  > >years ago).
>  > >
>  > >Best
>  > >
>  > >Keith
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
>  > >http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>  > >
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>  > >http://archive.nnytech.net/
>  > >
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Re: [biofuel] Thanks Kieth

[Hakan Falk]

Apart from running 2-stroke engines on mix of ethanol/veg oil, the chain
saw is a different thing. For some decades now, I use veg oil for lubricating
the saw blade. In Sweden, it is now a standard to do that and almost all
do it. When you buy a chain saw they recommend it now. From a pollution
point this is very important, since the blade lubrication goes directly to
the surrounding earth.

Hakan

At 05:57 PM 8/28/2002 +1000, you wrote:
>  great... thanks for the info Keith..Im going to give that one a try.. Im 
> trying to getaway from non-renewable fuel... so the biodesel and 
> ethonol  mix i think i will work on. Thanks again!
>--
>
>On Tue, 27 Aug 2002 15:47:49   Keith Addison wrote:
> >>--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "bendo4000" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> > Im exploring the idea of ethonol conversions on my farm equipment. I
> >> > have found many sites converting standard 4 stroke engines to
> >>ethanol.
> >> > I was interested if anyone has had any luck converting 2 stroke
> >> > lawnmowers , edgers, chainsaws, generators even 2 stroke trail
> >>bikes.
> >> > I cant see any problems with the mix  according to a biodiesel
> >>mix
> >> > you can combime ethanol and veg oil has anyone out there had any
> >> > luck???
> >> >
> >> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]   any info would be much apreciated! even if its
> >> > just a "it worked for me" thanks for ur trouble!
> >>
> >>Can't help re. your ethanol query, however I have heard reports of
> >>people using biodiesel as two-stroke oil with gasoline (in chainsaws
> >>etc.)
> >>
> >>Mike
> >
> >We have had some reports of using biodiesel as 2-stroke oil. It's a
> >super lubricator and seems to work fine. Older engines might need a
> >higher mix ratio - one earlier message advised:
> >
> >"Old two-stroke engines like yours usually have bronze wrist pin bearings
> >and thus require a richer oil mixture to adequately lube that bushing.
> >Incidentally in a two stroke you will often find the wrist pin bearing fails
> >first from poor lubrication (It is just much harder to get the oil into it!)
> >  I would recommend at least to stick with the 20-1 or even 15-1 seeing as
> >biodiesel is a "thinner" oil than normal two-stroke oil. I have no idea what
> >effect bio-diesel would have on the octane of gasoline but it probably isn't
> >so important on old engines because they usually have a very low c/r 
> anyway."
> >
> >Actually it turns out biodiesel isn't thinner than standard 2-stroke
> >oil, or not by much.
> >
> >New engines need what, 50:1 or less? Try it and see, start with a
> >higher ratio than recommended for standard oil. At least one list
> >member uses biodiesel with his chain saw, no problems when last we
> >heard.
> >
> >You can mix vegetable oil with anhydrous ethanol, and 95% ethanol
> >will do as well, probably even 160-proof with such small amounts of
> >oil, and ethanol and biodiesel mix even better, stable mix, so you
> >should have no problems, no need for blending additives.
> >
> >Castor oil was the traditional 2-stroke lube, and it's still used in
> >racing I think. Expensive though. If I had a 2-stroke now I'd want to
> >be using ethanol and biodiesel. When I did have a 2-stroke I often
> >used fuel ethanol in it, no problem. No biodiesel then (that was 40
> >years ago).
> >
> >Best
> >
> >Keith
> >
> >
> >
> >Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> >http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> >
> >Biofuels list archives:
> >http://archive.nnytech.net/
> >
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> >To unsubscribe, send an email to:
> >[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
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> >
> >
> >
>
>
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[biofuel] Thanks Kieth

[Ben D'Onofrio]

 great... thanks for the info Keith..Im going to give that one a try.. Im 
trying to getaway from non-renewable fuel... so the biodesel and ethonol  mix i 
think i will work on. Thanks again!   
--

On Tue, 27 Aug 2002 15:47:49   Keith Addison wrote:
>>--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "bendo4000" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> > Im exploring the idea of ethonol conversions on my farm equipment. I
>> > have found many sites converting standard 4 stroke engines to
>>ethanol.
>> > I was interested if anyone has had any luck converting 2 stroke
>> > lawnmowers , edgers, chainsaws, generators even 2 stroke trail
>>bikes.
>> > I cant see any problems with the mix  according to a biodiesel
>>mix
>> > you can combime ethanol and veg oil has anyone out there had any
>> > luck???
>> >
>> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]   any info would be much apreciated! even if its
>> > just a "it worked for me" thanks for ur trouble!
>>
>>Can't help re. your ethanol query, however I have heard reports of
>>people using biodiesel as two-stroke oil with gasoline (in chainsaws
>>etc.)
>>
>>Mike
>
>We have had some reports of using biodiesel as 2-stroke oil. It's a 
>super lubricator and seems to work fine. Older engines might need a 
>higher mix ratio - one earlier message advised:
>
>"Old two-stroke engines like yours usually have bronze wrist pin bearings
>and thus require a richer oil mixture to adequately lube that bushing.
>Incidentally in a two stroke you will often find the wrist pin bearing fails
>first from poor lubrication (It is just much harder to get the oil into it!)
>  I would recommend at least to stick with the 20-1 or even 15-1 seeing as
>biodiesel is a "thinner" oil than normal two-stroke oil. I have no idea what
>effect bio-diesel would have on the octane of gasoline but it probably isn't
>so important on old engines because they usually have a very low c/r anyway."
>
>Actually it turns out biodiesel isn't thinner than standard 2-stroke 
>oil, or not by much.
>
>New engines need what, 50:1 or less? Try it and see, start with a 
>higher ratio than recommended for standard oil. At least one list 
>member uses biodiesel with his chain saw, no problems when last we 
>heard.
>
>You can mix vegetable oil with anhydrous ethanol, and 95% ethanol 
>will do as well, probably even 160-proof with such small amounts of 
>oil, and ethanol and biodiesel mix even better, stable mix, so you 
>should have no problems, no need for blending additives.
>
>Castor oil was the traditional 2-stroke lube, and it's still used in 
>racing I think. Expensive though. If I had a 2-stroke now I'd want to 
>be using ethanol and biodiesel. When I did have a 2-stroke I often 
>used fuel ethanol in it, no problem. No biodiesel then (that was 40 
>years ago).
>
>Best
>
>Keith
>
>
>
>Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>
>Biofuels list archives:
>http://archive.nnytech.net/
>
>Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address.
>To unsubscribe, send an email to:
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
>
>
>


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[biofuel] Thanks for Mercedes diesel info

[Marc de Piolenc]

Thanks for the responses to my plea for leads to service info for my
MB-100 van. 


Marc de Piolenc

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[biofuel] Thanks

[milliontc]

Merry Xmas to all.
Special thanks to Keith Steve Alek et al for all that effort in 01.
Feliz fiestas
James

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Re: [biofuel] THANKS

[jerry dycus]

Hi Madman and All,
   I have a great bridge in Brooklyn to sell if
you want ;-).
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I am still not sure how the power company charges
> but I am sure you cannot 
> get that arc for free. I know that heaters such as
> the burner on a range work 
> on resistance and use a lot of power. They claim
> that about 80% of the cost 
> to produce the gas is carbon which is consumed in
> the process.
And you have to keep replacing those rods so you
have to shut down the unit. They also don't tell you
that the carbon turns to CO2 after it's burned and the
NO2 produced when burning with air because of the high
temps. Not very pollution free. 
Electricity only has about 33% of the energy it
takes to make it so you have to add it too. CO poisons
fuel cells so it's not good for them and is wasted.
> Also I worry 
> about the gas breaking down over time. They say as
> long as it is under 
> pressure it will not but I am not sure. By the way
> it is a gas that is stored 
> about 2500 psi. I do not know if they had better
> pumps that they could go 
> higher. Either way that is pretty high pressure.
And how much energy does it take to bring it up to
that pressure? I doubt it would break down when
stored. Leak out maybe of the H2 thru the steel walls
of the storage vessel.
I don't think the people who invested in Checkers
would agree with you either. Most got burned badly.
Their burgers are 90% grissle and fat. You can have my
share. They would make great biodiesel though.
 Please keep your posts on biofuel in the future.
If you like politics there are lists for that or
e-mail off list.  
Good luck,   jerry dycus
> 
> MADMAN
> http://www.bazookabros.8k.com
> 


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[biofuel] THANKS

[MADMAN1159]

I am still not sure how the power company charges but I am sure you cannot 
get that arc for free. I know that heaters such as the burner on a range work 
on resistance and use a lot of power. They claim that about 80% of the cost 
to produce the gas is carbon which is consumed in the process. Also I worry 
about the gas breaking down over time. They say as long as it is under 
pressure it will not but I am not sure. By the way it is a gas that is stored 
about 2500 psi. I do not know if they had better pumps that they could go 
higher. Either way that is pretty high pressure.

MADMAN
http://www.bazookabros.8k.com



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[biofuel] Thanks regarding Biodiesel mixer

[DAVID REID]

Thanks Steve,
Didnt 
think it was but thought I better ask.
B.r.,  David
 
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[biofuel] Thanks for source

[DAVID REID]

Alan,
    Thankyou for the 
info. Will certainly try to contact him. Found 2 or 3 articles by him when doing 
a search at Purdue recently. Many thanks.
B.r.,  David













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[biofuel] Thanks, and further details

[DAVID REID]

Greg and Steve,
    
Thanks for both your input. Steve Mike Nixon is a good suggestion and I 
will talk to him about it. Greg thanks for the details on the process.  

Was looking for info on making a small plant that could be 
made for the actual process itself and a subsidary unit to regenerate the 
molecular sieve. I know a number of ethanol plants making E85 and similar fuels 
in the States use 2 or 3 beds with the heat from the one being used to dry out 
and dehydrate the other two so there is always 1 bed ready to go at all times. 
Unfortunately a lot of the process info and details are proprietory largely 
being developed in-house with not much of it generally accessible by the general 
public or on public record.
The chap I have dealt with from the company which is supplying 
the molecular sieve has told me to build a column with a ratio of at least 7 x 
the height to diameter and to feed it from the bottom. Any comments or advice?  
Help and suggestions from others most appreciated. Also do you know 
anything about the use of vacuum in the regeneration process?
B.r., David
 













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