Re: [biofuels-biz] Indian and Asian BD activities
Thnaks for your comment on chian length. I had taken the comment from a report mentioned below: http://home.earthlink.net/~galiagante/house-biofuel.html which reportsas follows: III. 3. b. Step Two: Vegetable Oil and Sodium Methoxide Vegetable oil is primarily made of triglycerine with small amounts of assorted other compounds including trace elements, fatty acids and stray proteins that may have slipped through during the extraction process. Virgin vegetable oils can have carbon chains as short 18 points. Waste Oils (such as used cooking oils) can have carbon chains as long as 32 point after repeated heatings and coolings. By comparison, petro diesel has a carbon chain of between 11 and 13 points. The transesterification process breaks the triglycerine carbon chains into something that more closely resembles diesel. Breaking triglycerine means adding sodium hydroxide at a ratio of 3.5 grams per liter of pure triglycerine in the presence of a suitable solvent. As pure triglycerine is basically never found, remember that properly testing your oil feedstocks is very important (see Titration Testing, above). From: Camillo Holecek [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com To: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuels-biz] Indian and Asian BD activities Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2002 17:38:14 +0200 Dear Mr. Rajendra Sharma and all: I am very glad and literally happy to learn on this list suddenly about so many ernest activities and BD interested parties in India! Great! Realy great! I happend to travel to Mumbai, Pune and Nasik in Jannuary 02 and had the opportunity to introduce the idea of Biodiesel to some private sector petro chemists. And now I can see all that happening by itself. Looks like the very working of Rtambara Pragya, the divine power of the seasons Anyway, what I wantes to contibute: The process of transesterification of a plant oil (used or fresh) does not involve any change in carbon chain lenght. Unfortunitly. We would be very happy to achive that; it would solve all our problems with the cloud point of BD in cold climates! I am aware that it is a common misconcept that the lower viscousidy of BD compared to plant oil could be from chain lenght managment. These are not common hydrocarbons! Actually the change is in molecular size and complexidy (from triglycerid to methyl ester), but NOT in the chain lenght of the fatty acid chains themselves. Nevertheless, we are very keen to see some Biodiesel produced in India as soon as possible! Good luck! Regards, Camillo Holecek CEO, Biodiesel Refinery Ltd., Austria -Ursprngliche Nachricht- Von: Steven Helen Hobbs [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Gesendet: Sonntag, 01. September 2002 16:14 An: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Betreff: Re: [biofuels-biz] Help! Dear Rajendra I found it interesting that you mention on esterification that the chain length is broken from C18 or more down to a chain length of C11 - C13. Can such a difference be due to the variety of oil that is selected? The reason I ask is that I have been making BD from cold pressed virgin Canola oil, and I had a GC fatty acid analysis performed on my BD and the results were; C16:0 -C18:0-C18:1-C18:2-C18:3-C20:0-C20:1-C22:0 3.9 - 4.83 - 80.54- 9.29- 0.00 -0.37 - 0.00 - 1.07 The GC fatty acid composition dosn't show chain lengths as short as what you mention, but 98.56% of chain lengths are C18:2 or shorter. I would appreciate your comments. Regards Steven Rajendra Sharma wrote: Kavitha obviously your professor is not fully informed. Virgin oil and for that matter the waste oil has long carbon chains- 18 or so but on esterification these chains are broken down to 11 - 13, very similar to that in diesel. Due to about 11% oxygenates avialble in biodiesel( which is defined as mono ethyl or methyl ester ). we are doing work on prodcution of biodiesel from non-food plant seeds, have tested it in engines and confirmed the emissoin advantages of biodiesel. now I am working on preparing a Indian standard for biodiesel. if you are near bombay you can talk to me for more details. I am in nasik at mahindra mahindra ltd cc:Samai Jaiin - can you send me tha national standard for biodiesel and also copy of your paper mentioned below rgds From: Samai Jaiin [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com To: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuels-biz] Help! Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 12:46:25 +0100 (BST) Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ _ Send
AW: [biofuels-biz] Indian and Asian BD activities
Hi folks, Does anyone now the pattern of fatty acids of the poonga-oil-tree (or pongamia pinetta)? Could be an interesting feedstock in asia! Richard Gronald Marketing DonauWind GmbH Co KG Freudenauer Hafenstra§e 8-10 1020 Wien +43 664 52 68 102 www.donauwind.at www.energea.at -Ursprngliche Nachricht- Von: Rajendra Sharma [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Gesendet: Dienstag, 03. September 2002 07:38 An: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Betreff: Re: [biofuels-biz] Indian and Asian BD activities Thnaks for your comment on chian length. I had taken the comment from a report mentioned below: http://home.earthlink.net/~galiagante/house-biofuel.html which reportsas follows: III. 3. b. Step Two: Vegetable Oil and Sodium Methoxide Vegetable oil is primarily made of triglycerine with small amounts of assorted other compounds including trace elements, fatty acids and stray proteins that may have slipped through during the extraction process. Virgin vegetable oils can have carbon chains as short 18 points. Waste Oils (such as used cooking oils) can have carbon chains as long as 32 point after repeated heatings and coolings. By comparison, petro diesel has a carbon chain of between 11 and 13 points. The transesterification process breaks the triglycerine carbon chains into something that more closely resembles diesel. Breaking triglycerine means adding sodium hydroxide at a ratio of 3.5 grams per liter of pure triglycerine in the presence of a suitable solvent. As pure triglycerine is basically never found, remember that properly testing your oil feedstocks is very important (see Titration Testing, above). From: Camillo Holecek [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com To: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuels-biz] Indian and Asian BD activities Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2002 17:38:14 +0200 Dear Mr. Rajendra Sharma and all: I am very glad and literally happy to learn on this list suddenly about so many ernest activities and BD interested parties in India! Great! Realy great! I happend to travel to Mumbai, Pune and Nasik in Jannuary 02 and had the opportunity to introduce the idea of Biodiesel to some private sector petro chemists. And now I can see all that happening by itself. Looks like the very working of Rtambara Pragya, the divine power of the seasons Anyway, what I wantes to contibute: The process of transesterification of a plant oil (used or fresh) does not involve any change in carbon chain lenght. Unfortunitly. We would be very happy to achive that; it would solve all our problems with the cloud point of BD in cold climates! I am aware that it is a common misconcept that the lower viscousidy of BD compared to plant oil could be from chain lenght managment. These are not common hydrocarbons! Actually the change is in molecular size and complexidy (from triglycerid to methyl ester), but NOT in the chain lenght of the fatty acid chains themselves. Nevertheless, we are very keen to see some Biodiesel produced in India as soon as possible! Good luck! Regards, Camillo Holecek CEO, Biodiesel Refinery Ltd., Austria -Ursprngliche Nachricht- Von: Steven Helen Hobbs [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Gesendet: Sonntag, 01. September 2002 16:14 An: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Betreff: Re: [biofuels-biz] Help! Dear Rajendra I found it interesting that you mention on esterification that the chain length is broken from C18 or more down to a chain length of C11 - C13. Can such a difference be due to the variety of oil that is selected? The reason I ask is that I have been making BD from cold pressed virgin Canola oil, and I had a GC fatty acid analysis performed on my BD and the results were; C16:0 -C18:0-C18:1-C18:2-C18:3-C20:0-C20:1-C22:0 3.9 - 4.83 - 80.54- 9.29- 0.00 -0.37 - 0.00 - 1.07 The GC fatty acid composition dosn't show chain lengths as short as what you mention, but 98.56% of chain lengths are C18:2 or shorter. I would appreciate your comments. Regards Steven Rajendra Sharma wrote: Kavitha obviously your professor is not fully informed. Virgin oil and for that matter the waste oil has long carbon chains- 18 or so but on esterification these chains are broken down to 11 - 13, very similar to that in diesel. Due to about 11% oxygenates avialble in biodiesel( which is defined as mono ethyl or methyl ester ). we are doing work on prodcution of biodiesel from non-food plant seeds, have tested it in engines and confirmed the emissoin advantages of biodiesel. now I am working on preparing a Indian standard for biodiesel. if you are near bombay you can talk to me for more details. I am in nasik at mahindra mahindra ltd cc:Samai Jaiin - can you send me tha national standard for biodiesel and also copy of your paper mentioned below rgds From: Samai Jaiin [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com To: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuels-biz] Help! Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 12:46:25 +0100
Re: AW: [biofuels-biz] Indian and Asian BD activities
Hi folks, Does anyone now the pattern of fatty acids of the poonga-oil-tree (or pongamia pinetta)? Could be an interesting feedstock in asia! Richard Gronald Marketing DonauWind GmbH Co KG Freudenauer Hafenstra§e 8-10 1020 Wien +43 664 52 68 102 www.donauwind.at www.energea.at Here you go, Richard http://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/duke_energy/Pongamia_pinnata.html Pongamia pinnata ... Reported to contain alkaloids demethoxy-kanugin, gamatay, glabrin, glabrosaponin, kaempferol, kanjone, kanugin, karangin, neoglabrin, pinnatin, pongamol, pongapin, quercitin, saponin, b-sitosterol, and tannin. Air-dry kernels have 19.0% moisture, 27.5% fatty oil, 17.4% protein, 6.6% starch, 7.3% crude fiber, and 2.4% ash. Fatty acid composition: palmitic, 3.7-7.9%, stearic 2.4-8.9, arachidic 2.2-4.7, behenic 4.2-5.3, lignoceric 1.1-3.5, oleic, 44.5-71.3, linoleic 10.8-18.3, and eicosenoic 9.5-12.4%. Destructive distillation of the wood yields, on a dry weight basis: charcoal 31.0%, pyroligneous acid 36.69, acid 4.3%, ester 3.4%, acetone 1.9%, methanol 1.1%, tar 9.0%, pitch and losses 4.4%, and gas 0.12 cu m/kg. Manurial values of leaves and twigs are respectively: nitrogen 1.16, 0.71; phosphorus (P2O5), 0.14, 0.11; potash (K2O), 0.49, 0.62; and lime (CaO), 1.54, 1.58%. Such manure reduces the incidence of Meloidogyne javanica. ... Wherever it is grown, the wood (calorific value 4,600 kcal/kg) is burned for cooking fuel (NAS, 1980a). The thick oil from the seeds is used for illumination, as a kerosene substitute, and lubrication. It would seem that with upgraded germplasm one could target for 2 MT oil and 5 MT firewood per hectare per year on a renewable basis. The oil has been tried as fuel in diesel engines, showing a good thermal efficiency (C.S.I.R., 1948-1976). Duke, Handbook of Energy Crops Keith Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- 4 DVDs Free +sp Join Now http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/MVfIAA/9bTolB/TM -~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] Indian and Asian BD activities
Dear Mr. Rajendra Sharma and all: I am very glad and literally happy to learn on this list suddenly about so many ernest activities and BD interested parties in India! Great! Realy great! I happend to travel to Mumbai, Pune and Nasik in Jannuary 02 and had the opportunity to introduce the idea of Biodiesel to some private sector petro chemists. And now I can see all that happening by itself. Looks like the very working of Rtambara Pragya, the divine power of the seasons Anyway, what I wantes to contibute: The process of transesterification of a plant oil (used or fresh) does not involve any change in carbon chain lenght. Unfortunitly. We would be very happy to achive that; it would solve all our problems with the cloud point of BD in cold climates! I am aware that it is a common misconcept that the lower viscousidy of BD compared to plant oil could be from chain lenght managment. These are not common hydrocarbons! Actually the change is in molecular size and complexidy (from triglycerid to methyl ester), but NOT in the chain lenght of the fatty acid chains themselves. Nevertheless, we are very keen to see some Biodiesel produced in India as soon as possible! Good luck! Regards, Camillo Holecek CEO, Biodiesel Refinery Ltd., Austria -Ursprngliche Nachricht- Von: Steven Helen Hobbs [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Gesendet: Sonntag, 01. September 2002 16:14 An: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Betreff: Re: [biofuels-biz] Help! Dear Rajendra I found it interesting that you mention on esterification that the chain length is broken from C18 or more down to a chain length of C11 - C13. Can such a difference be due to the variety of oil that is selected? The reason I ask is that I have been making BD from cold pressed virgin Canola oil, and I had a GC fatty acid analysis performed on my BD and the results were; C16:0 -C18:0-C18:1-C18:2-C18:3-C20:0-C20:1-C22:0 3.9 - 4.83 - 80.54- 9.29- 0.00 -0.37 - 0.00 - 1.07 The GC fatty acid composition dosn't show chain lengths as short as what you mention, but 98.56% of chain lengths are C18:2 or shorter. I would appreciate your comments. Regards Steven Rajendra Sharma wrote: Kavitha obviously your professor is not fully informed. Virgin oil and for that matter the waste oil has long carbon chains- 18 or so but on esterification these chains are broken down to 11 - 13, very similar to that in diesel. Due to about 11% oxygenates avialble in biodiesel( which is defined as mono ethyl or methyl ester ). we are doing work on prodcution of biodiesel from non-food plant seeds, have tested it in engines and confirmed the emissoin advantages of biodiesel. now I am working on preparing a Indian standard for biodiesel. if you are near bombay you can talk to me for more details. I am in nasik at mahindra mahindra ltd cc:Samai Jaiin - can you send me tha national standard for biodiesel and also copy of your paper mentioned below rgds From: Samai Jaiin [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com To: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuels-biz] Help! Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 12:46:25 +0100 (BST) Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Looking for a more powerful website? Try GeoCities for $8.95 per month. Register your domain name (http://your-name.com). More storage! No ads! http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info http://us.click.yahoo.com/aHOo4D/KJoEAA/MVfIAA/9bTolB/TM -~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
