RE : Re: [biofuel] jatropha@india - musings

2003-01-06 Thread ramjee

Keith:

If you throw in the NGOs brigade (who revel in sailing along *any* 
funding_wind [2]) and the forest department (whose idea of 'social' 
forestry so far is to plant eucalyptus trees all over India) - I 
don't know what the outcome is going to be. 

* That bad? They know there are better ways of doing things, don't 
* they? Did they learn nothing from the Chipko movement etc? 

They have learnt the wrong lessons I guess, and have fallen a victim to 
Ngotitis. Anyway, my cynicism apart, I do know a number of organizations who 
work *genuinely* at the grassroots level... I am just against *that* crop of 
NGOs with a buccaneerish attitude whose various cultivars have practically 
hijacked the 'development' agenda.

* So we've funded everything out of our own far-from-deep pockets so 
* far, not easy. We wanted to develop the project first, then we'd go 
* for funding, not just asking, but with something valuable to offer, 
* so we could deal, no need to beg. Otherwise we wouldn't be able to 
* resist the commercial pressures, nor other pressures, and the project 
* wouldn't be able to deliver its goods. It seems to be working, we're 
* nearly at that stage now and can soon start putting our funding 
* strategy into operation at last. In fact the project has achieved 
* quite a lot already, without any funding, and without even going 
* anywhere yet. 

Please accept my congratulations - and best wishes for the journey...

* There's more about that here, and on the next page: 
* http://journeytoforever.org/community.html 
* Community development 

* I can send you the whole thing if you like, it's a good read, it 
* strengthens your case I think. 

Thanks Keith, I have already gone thru these pages. In fact, I have immensely 
benefitted from your j2fe site - what amazing range of information! I have been 
happily recommending your pages and that Steve Solomon (www.soilandhealth.org) 
- to anyone and everyone who cares... :-)

Thanks once again.

Regards:

__ramjee.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
You and I are told we must choose between a left or right, but I suggest there 
is no such thing as a left or right. There is only an up or down. Up to man's 
age-old dream -- the maximum of individual freedom consistent with order -- or 
down to the ant heap of totalitarianism. Regardless of their sincerity, their 
humanitarian motives, those who would sacrifice freedom for security have 
embarked on this downward path. 
-- Ronald Reagan, October 27, 1964 
Ramjee Swaminathan | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.qsl.net/vu2sro/
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=



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RE : Re: [biofuel] jatropha@india - musings

2003-01-06 Thread Keith Addison

Hi Ramjee

Keith:

 If you throw in the NGOs brigade (who revel in sailing along *any*
 funding_wind [2]) and the forest department (whose idea of 'social'
 forestry so far is to plant eucalyptus trees all over India) - I
 don't know what the outcome is going to be.

* That bad? They know there are better ways of doing things, don't
* they? Did they learn nothing from the Chipko movement etc?

They have learnt the wrong lessons I guess, and have fallen a victim 
to Ngotitis.

LOL! A new disease of the pocket?

Anyway, my cynicism apart, I do know a number of organizations who 
work *genuinely* at the grassroots level...

So do I, mostly under-resourced but they do good stuff anyway. And 
some foreign ones too doing good work without any fanfare.

I am just against *that* crop of NGOs with a buccaneerish attitude 
whose various cultivars have practically hijacked the 'development' 
agenda.

Much the same as what we keep saying here about the big environment 
groups in the West as opposed to the local grass-roots outfits. 
Though the big ones do do good work too, they overshadow the small 
groups and corner a disproportionate amount of the available funding, 
much of which would do more good spent at the local level. But as I 
said, it's a widespread pattern. Big business vs small local 
operations is often the same. Big's not all bad, but it tends to be 
clumsy, needs to learn a bit of heed, especially for things local. 
Nor is small all good, but it's more easily controlled when it gets 
out of hand.

* So we've funded everything out of our own far-from-deep pockets so
* far, not easy. We wanted to develop the project first, then we'd go
* for funding, not just asking, but with something valuable to offer,
* so we could deal, no need to beg. Otherwise we wouldn't be able to
* resist the commercial pressures, nor other pressures, and the project
* wouldn't be able to deliver its goods. It seems to be working, we're
* nearly at that stage now and can soon start putting our funding
* strategy into operation at last. In fact the project has achieved
* quite a lot already, without any funding, and without even going
* anywhere yet.

Please accept my congratulations - and best wishes for the journey...

Thankyou! - though we're not at all in the clear yet. In six months maybe...

* There's more about that here, and on the next page:
* http://journeytoforever.org/community.html
* Community development

* I can send you the whole thing if you like, it's a good read, it
* strengthens your case I think.

Thanks Keith, I have already gone thru these pages. In fact, I have 
immensely benefitted from your j2fe site - what amazing range of 
information! I have been happily recommending your pages and that 
Steve Solomon (www.soilandhealth.org) - to anyone and everyone who 
cares... :-)

:-) Good! - that's what it's for, and Steve would say the same. But I 
meant the Oxfam HK stuff, most of it's on our Community development 
pages, but not all, and it's not at their site anymore. Clear and 
simple, nice and compact. I'll send it offlist, it's only 10k or 
something.

All best

Keith


Thanks once again.

Regards:

__ramjee.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
You and I are told we must choose between a left or right, but I 
suggest there is no such thing as a left or right. There is only an 
up or down. Up to man's age-old dream -- the maximum of individual 
freedom consistent with order -- or down to the ant heap of 
totalitarianism. Regardless of their sincerity, their humanitarian 
motives, those who would sacrifice freedom for security have 
embarked on this downward path.
-- Ronald Reagan, October 27, 1964
Ramjee Swaminathan | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.qsl.net/vu2sro/
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=


Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Biofuels list archives:
http://archive.nnytech.net/

Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address.
To unsubscribe, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/