Re: [Biofuel] Chicago Turns Down Discounted Venezuelan Oil
Greg, Your post below doesn't address what I wrote in reply to your suggestion that purchasing from Citgo was an illegal treaty IIRC, it's not legal for individual states or cities to make treaties with foreign nations, as such an agreement might be considered. I don't contest that arrangements could have been made in a manner that benefitted the poor. But that is another matter. Besides, that would upstage the nirvanic policies of capitalism/Ameicanism, now wouldn't it? Todd Swearingen Greg and April wrote: Todd, There is a world of difference between a non-profit organization buying cut rate fuel for the use of non-profit distribution to the poor, and a local government buying cut rate fuel for use in a 'for profit' program, even if it is supposed to benefit the poor. If Chicago was to buy the cut rate fuel, there would eventually be allot scandal issues, with accusation and counter accusation about members of the local government benefiting taking advantage from the cost difference. Eventually things would have ended up in court ( an expensive place ). This is what Chicago avoided by declining the fuel. OTOH, if a non-profit organization was to buy the fuel at the cut rate, and sell it to Chicago at the market price, then use the money gained to distribute special discount bus passes to the poor, then the poor would benefit, and the government could not.The same thing could have been achieved if the Citgo sold the fuel at market price, and gave a non-profit origination the difference between the money to reimburse the poor of Chicago for difference in the cost of the more expensive bus passes. What I am saying, is that arrangements could have been different, that would allow the poor to benefit, without bringing Venezuela by way of Citgo and the government of Chicago directly into contact.There should be a non-political organization that does not benefit in any way between Citgo and the poor of Chicago to avid the taint of corruption bribery.** It should be this way even if it was a domestic oil company that was donating the fuel. ** Greg H. Why are lemmings better than politicians? Lemmings only take themselves of cliffs. Politicians try to send you ahead telling you what a favor they are doing you to let you go first! - Original Message - From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 22:30 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Chicago Turns Down Discounted Venezuelan Oil Large difference between signing a treaty and signing a contract. Until such time as some form of federal embargo is placed against Venezuela, the market remains open and there are no restrictions against such a transaction. Todd Swearingen Greg and April wrote: Not really. See a previous post with the subject - Venezuela Oil Fields Back in State Control, from Keith Addison: In 2001, it passed a new law requiring oil production to be carried out by companies majority-owned by the government. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Marty Phee [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 10:04 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Chicago Turns Down Discounted Venezuelan Oil Very true, but wouldn't they be signing a contract with Citgo and not Venezuela. Greg and April wrote: IIRC, it's not legal for individual states or cities to make treaties with foreign nations, as such an agreement might be considered. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 23:56 Subject: [Biofuel] Chicago Turns Down Discounted Venezuelan Oil http://newstandardnews.net/content/index.cfm/items/2710 Chicago Turns Down Discounted Venezuelan Oil by Jessica Pupovac (bio) As Chicago's poorest face an increase to already-high public transit fees, the city is ignoring an offer of discounted diesel fuel to benefit low-income people. Chicago, Dec 28, 2005 - The Chicago Transit Authority is refusing an opportunity to alleviate commuting costs for hundreds of thousands in the Windy City's low-income neighborhoods. Instead of accepting deeply discounted fuel from the Venezuela-owned Citgo Petroleum Corporation, the city is instead raising fares to solve budget shortfalls. In an October meeting with representatives from the Chicago Transit Authority (CTA), the city's Department of Energy and other city officials, Citgo unveiled a plan to provide the Chicago with low-cost diesel fuel. The company's stipulation, at the bidding of Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez, was that the CTA, in turn, pass those savings on to poor residents in the form free or discounted fare cards. But two months later, despite claims of a looming budget crisis, the CTA president has no intent or plan to accept the offer, according to CTA spokesperson Ibis Antongiorgi. She gave no explanation. According to Venezuela's consul general in Chicago
Re: [Biofuel] Chicago Turns Down Discounted Venezuelan Oil
if that were true, wouldn't walmart be in big trouble vis-a-vis purchases from china? Greg and April wrote: IIRC, it's not legal for individual states or cities to make treaties with foreign nations, as such an agreement might be considered. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 23:56 Subject: [Biofuel] Chicago Turns Down Discounted Venezuelan Oil http://newstandardnews.net/content/index.cfm/items/2710 Chicago Turns Down Discounted Venezuelan Oil by Jessica Pupovac (bio) As Chicago's poorest face an increase to already-high public transit fees, the city is ignoring an offer of discounted diesel fuel to benefit low-income people. Chicago, Dec 28, 2005 - The Chicago Transit Authority is refusing an opportunity to alleviate commuting costs for hundreds of thousands in the Windy City's low-income neighborhoods. Instead of accepting deeply discounted fuel from the Venezuela-owned Citgo Petroleum Corporation, the city is instead raising fares to solve budget shortfalls. In an October meeting with representatives from the Chicago Transit Authority (CTA), the city's Department of Energy and other city officials, Citgo unveiled a plan to provide the Chicago with low-cost diesel fuel. The company's stipulation, at the bidding of Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez, was that the CTA, in turn, pass those savings on to poor residents in the form free or discounted fare cards. But two months later, despite claims of a looming budget crisis, the CTA president has no intent or plan to accept the offer, according to CTA spokesperson Ibis Antongiorgi. She gave no explanation. According to Venezuela's consul general in Chicago, Martin Sanchez, the CTA has yet to inform his office of its decision to decline the discount offer. In place of the proposed discount, which the CTA apparently does not want Chicagoans to even know about, budget shortfalls will be addressed by fare hikes. Chicagoans who are unaware of the Venezuela offer will be hit with an increase of 25 cents per ride next month, and discounted route-to-route transfers will be eliminated for passengers paying cash. This is going to hurt the poor and the minority people, like me, said Dorothy Chew, resident of Humboldt Park, where one-third of residents live below the federally recognized poverty level - currently just $16,000 for a family of three. Chew relies on the CTA to get to work and to Chicago Commons, where she attends classes daily in preparation for taking her GED. Since she rarely has money to invest in a fare card, she will be forced to pay for transfers the majority of the time. Chew's classmate, Linda Cox, works a minimum-wage job and has been a Public Aid recipient for 15 years. She also relies heavily on public transportation. I only earn $560 a month and of that, over $200 a month goes to my bus fare, Cox told The NewStandard. I have a 15-year-old and a 17-year-old who also need to get to school. If they change the prices and take away transfers, there are going to be a lot of days missed. I already see no money at the end of the month. The offer of discount fuel is not just confined to Chicago. Over the Thanksgiving holiday, the first of Venezuela's oil-for-the-poor programs in the US was launched. Citgo struck a deal with three nonprofit organizations in the Bronx to deliver 5 million gallons of heating oil at 45 percent below the market price. The deal will amount to a savings of $4 million for the 8,000 low-income households slated to benefit from the plan. This is going to hurt the poor and the minority people, like me. -- Dorothy Chew Citgo has made a similar arrangement with Citizens Energy Corp. in Boston for the sale and distribution of 12 million gallons, saving low-income and elderly residents there a total of $10 million. The company's website says that it expects to expand the program to other boroughs in New York City and that it is exploring the possibility of offering discounted fuel to residents in Maine, Rhode Island, Connecticut and Pennsylvania. However, in all of Illinois, only about 12,000 households use heating oil. So instead of fuel for heat, Citgo representatives offered the CTA a 40-50 percent discount on diesel fuel for buses to benefit Chicagoans most in need of relief from soaring oil and gas prices this winter. We didn't know how else to reach enough people, said Consul Sanchez. Another difference between the Chicago offer and the programs enacted in the Northeast is that Citgo proposed to work with a government agency, rather than nonprofit organizations. The CTA relies on the US federal government - which is in a constant war of words with Venezuelan President Chavez - for much of its funding. In fact, just weeks after Citgo made its offer to the CTA, Congress signed the Federal
Re: [Biofuel] Chicago Turns Down Discounted Venezuelan Oil
Todd, There is a world of difference between a non-profit organization buying cut rate fuel for the use of non-profit distribution to the poor, and a local government buying cut rate fuel for use in a 'for profit' program, even if it is supposed to benefit the poor. If Chicago was to buy the cut rate fuel, there would eventually be allot scandal issues, with accusation and counter accusation about members of the local government benefiting taking advantage from the cost difference. Eventually things would have ended up in court ( an expensive place ). This is what Chicago avoided by declining the fuel. OTOH, if a non-profit organization was to buy the fuel at the cut rate, and sell it to Chicago at the market price, then use the money gained to distribute special discount bus passes to the poor, then the poor would benefit, and the government could not.The same thing could have been achieved if the Citgo sold the fuel at market price, and gave a non-profit origination the difference between the money to reimburse the poor of Chicago for difference in the cost of the more expensive bus passes. What I am saying, is that arrangements could have been different, that would allow the poor to benefit, without bringing Venezuela by way of Citgo and the government of Chicago directly into contact.There should be a non-political organization that does not benefit in any way between Citgo and the poor of Chicago to avid the taint of corruption bribery.** It should be this way even if it was a domestic oil company that was donating the fuel. ** Greg H. Why are lemmings better than politicians? Lemmings only take themselves of cliffs. Politicians try to send you ahead telling you what a favor they are doing you to let you go first! - Original Message - From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 22:30 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Chicago Turns Down Discounted Venezuelan Oil Large difference between signing a treaty and signing a contract. Until such time as some form of federal embargo is placed against Venezuela, the market remains open and there are no restrictions against such a transaction. Todd Swearingen Greg and April wrote: Not really. See a previous post with the subject - Venezuela Oil Fields Back in State Control, from Keith Addison: In 2001, it passed a new law requiring oil production to be carried out by companies majority-owned by the government. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Marty Phee [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 10:04 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Chicago Turns Down Discounted Venezuelan Oil Very true, but wouldn't they be signing a contract with Citgo and not Venezuela. Greg and April wrote: IIRC, it's not legal for individual states or cities to make treaties with foreign nations, as such an agreement might be considered. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 23:56 Subject: [Biofuel] Chicago Turns Down Discounted Venezuelan Oil http://newstandardnews.net/content/index.cfm/items/2710 Chicago Turns Down Discounted Venezuelan Oil by Jessica Pupovac (bio) As Chicago's poorest face an increase to already-high public transit fees, the city is ignoring an offer of discounted diesel fuel to benefit low-income people. Chicago, Dec 28, 2005 - The Chicago Transit Authority is refusing an opportunity to alleviate commuting costs for hundreds of thousands in the Windy City's low-income neighborhoods. Instead of accepting deeply discounted fuel from the Venezuela-owned Citgo Petroleum Corporation, the city is instead raising fares to solve budget shortfalls. In an October meeting with representatives from the Chicago Transit Authority (CTA), the city's Department of Energy and other city officials, Citgo unveiled a plan to provide the Chicago with low-cost diesel fuel. The company's stipulation, at the bidding of Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez, was that the CTA, in turn, pass those savings on to poor residents in the form free or discounted fare cards. But two months later, despite claims of a looming budget crisis, the CTA president has no intent or plan to accept the offer, according to CTA spokesperson Ibis Antongiorgi. She gave no explanation. According to Venezuela's consul general in Chicago, Martin Sanchez, the CTA has yet to inform his office of its decision to decline the discount offer. In place of the proposed discount, which the CTA apparently does not want Chicagoans to even know about, budget shortfalls will be addressed by fare hikes. Chicagoans who are unaware of the Venezuela offer will be hit with an increase of 25 cents per ride next month, and discounted route-to-route transfers will be eliminated for passengers paying cash. This is going to hurt the poor and the minority people, like me, said Dorothy Chew
Re: [Biofuel] Chicago Turns Down Discounted Venezuelan Oil
Wal-Mart is not a local government. Greg H. - Original Message - From: bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, January 06, 2006 6:50 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Chicago Turns Down Discounted Venezuelan Oil if that were true, wouldn't walmart be in big trouble vis-a-vis purchases from china? ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Chicago Turns Down Discounted Venezuelan Oil
On 1/6/06, Greg and April [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Wal-Mart is not a local government. Technically true thought Walmart is larger and more evil than most local (and many national) governments. Greg H. - Original Message - From: bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, January 06, 2006 6:50 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Chicago Turns Down Discounted Venezuelan Oil if that were true, wouldn't walmart be in big trouble vis-a-vis purchases from china? ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Chicago Turns Down Discounted Venezuelan Oil
Aramco is a foreign government-owned company, are your local governments allowed to buy fuel? Anyway, whatever, the news report says: But two months later, despite claims of a looming budget crisis, the CTA president has no intent or plan to accept the offer, according to CTA spokesperson Ibis Antongiorgi. She gave no explanation. If your explanation had any chance of standing up I don't doubt she'd have used it, but she didn't. People like Weisbrot would surely know it too. I think you're just grabbing for an excuse. IMHO, considering the current context in the US of oil interests, corruption and interfering with foreign governments (and even your own), your arguments seem somewhat bizarre. In the context of the poor too, especially after some of Hurricane Katrina's revelations. But you blamed the victims at the time, didn't you? Nobody's said the S-word yet (aarghh), LOL! Best Keith Todd, There is a world of difference between a non-profit organization buying cut rate fuel for the use of non-profit distribution to the poor, and a local government buying cut rate fuel for use in a 'for profit' program, even if it is supposed to benefit the poor. If Chicago was to buy the cut rate fuel, there would eventually be allot scandal issues, with accusation and counter accusation about members of the local government benefiting taking advantage from the cost difference. Eventually things would have ended up in court ( an expensive place ). This is what Chicago avoided by declining the fuel. OTOH, if a non-profit organization was to buy the fuel at the cut rate, and sell it to Chicago at the market price, then use the money gained to distribute special discount bus passes to the poor, then the poor would benefit, and the government could not.The same thing could have been achieved if the Citgo sold the fuel at market price, and gave a non-profit origination the difference between the money to reimburse the poor of Chicago for difference in the cost of the more expensive bus passes. What I am saying, is that arrangements could have been different, that would allow the poor to benefit, without bringing Venezuela by way of Citgo and the government of Chicago directly into contact.There should be a non-political organization that does not benefit in any way between Citgo and the poor of Chicago to avid the taint of corruption bribery.** It should be this way even if it was a domestic oil company that was donating the fuel. ** Greg H. Why are lemmings better than politicians? Lemmings only take themselves of cliffs. Politicians try to send you ahead telling you what a favor they are doing you to let you go first! - Original Message - From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 22:30 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Chicago Turns Down Discounted Venezuelan Oil Large difference between signing a treaty and signing a contract. Until such time as some form of federal embargo is placed against Venezuela, the market remains open and there are no restrictions against such a transaction. Todd Swearingen Greg and April wrote: Not really. See a previous post with the subject - Venezuela Oil Fields Back in State Control, from Keith Addison: In 2001, it passed a new law requiring oil production to be carried out by companies majority-owned by the government. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Marty Phee [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 10:04 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Chicago Turns Down Discounted Venezuelan Oil Very true, but wouldn't they be signing a contract with Citgo and not Venezuela. Greg and April wrote: IIRC, it's not legal for individual states or cities to make treaties with foreign nations, as such an agreement might be considered. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 23:56 Subject: [Biofuel] Chicago Turns Down Discounted Venezuelan Oil http://newstandardnews.net/content/index.cfm/items/2710 Chicago Turns Down Discounted Venezuelan Oil by Jessica Pupovac (bio) As Chicago's poorest face an increase to already-high public transit fees, the city is ignoring an offer of discounted diesel fuel to benefit low-income people. Chicago, Dec 28, 2005 - The Chicago Transit Authority is refusing an opportunity to alleviate commuting costs for hundreds of thousands in the Windy City's low-income neighborhoods. Instead of accepting deeply discounted fuel from the Venezuela-owned Citgo Petroleum Corporation, the city is instead raising fares to solve budget shortfalls. In an October meeting with representatives from the Chicago Transit Authority (CTA), the city's Department of Energy and other city officials, Citgo unveiled a plan to provide the Chicago with low-cost diesel fuel
Re: [Biofuel] Chicago Turns Down Discounted Venezuelan Oil
IIRC, it's not legal for individual states or cities to make treaties with foreign nations, as such an agreement might be considered. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 23:56 Subject: [Biofuel] Chicago Turns Down Discounted Venezuelan Oil http://newstandardnews.net/content/index.cfm/items/2710 Chicago Turns Down Discounted Venezuelan Oil by Jessica Pupovac (bio) As Chicago's poorest face an increase to already-high public transit fees, the city is ignoring an offer of discounted diesel fuel to benefit low-income people. Chicago, Dec 28, 2005 - The Chicago Transit Authority is refusing an opportunity to alleviate commuting costs for hundreds of thousands in the Windy City's low-income neighborhoods. Instead of accepting deeply discounted fuel from the Venezuela-owned Citgo Petroleum Corporation, the city is instead raising fares to solve budget shortfalls. In an October meeting with representatives from the Chicago Transit Authority (CTA), the city's Department of Energy and other city officials, Citgo unveiled a plan to provide the Chicago with low-cost diesel fuel. The company's stipulation, at the bidding of Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez, was that the CTA, in turn, pass those savings on to poor residents in the form free or discounted fare cards. But two months later, despite claims of a looming budget crisis, the CTA president has no intent or plan to accept the offer, according to CTA spokesperson Ibis Antongiorgi. She gave no explanation. According to Venezuela's consul general in Chicago, Martin Sanchez, the CTA has yet to inform his office of its decision to decline the discount offer. In place of the proposed discount, which the CTA apparently does not want Chicagoans to even know about, budget shortfalls will be addressed by fare hikes. Chicagoans who are unaware of the Venezuela offer will be hit with an increase of 25 cents per ride next month, and discounted route-to-route transfers will be eliminated for passengers paying cash. This is going to hurt the poor and the minority people, like me, said Dorothy Chew, resident of Humboldt Park, where one-third of residents live below the federally recognized poverty level - currently just $16,000 for a family of three. Chew relies on the CTA to get to work and to Chicago Commons, where she attends classes daily in preparation for taking her GED. Since she rarely has money to invest in a fare card, she will be forced to pay for transfers the majority of the time. Chew's classmate, Linda Cox, works a minimum-wage job and has been a Public Aid recipient for 15 years. She also relies heavily on public transportation. I only earn $560 a month and of that, over $200 a month goes to my bus fare, Cox told The NewStandard. I have a 15-year-old and a 17-year-old who also need to get to school. If they change the prices and take away transfers, there are going to be a lot of days missed. I already see no money at the end of the month. The offer of discount fuel is not just confined to Chicago. Over the Thanksgiving holiday, the first of Venezuela's oil-for-the-poor programs in the US was launched. Citgo struck a deal with three nonprofit organizations in the Bronx to deliver 5 million gallons of heating oil at 45 percent below the market price. The deal will amount to a savings of $4 million for the 8,000 low-income households slated to benefit from the plan. This is going to hurt the poor and the minority people, like me. -- Dorothy Chew Citgo has made a similar arrangement with Citizens Energy Corp. in Boston for the sale and distribution of 12 million gallons, saving low-income and elderly residents there a total of $10 million. The company's website says that it expects to expand the program to other boroughs in New York City and that it is exploring the possibility of offering discounted fuel to residents in Maine, Rhode Island, Connecticut and Pennsylvania. However, in all of Illinois, only about 12,000 households use heating oil. So instead of fuel for heat, Citgo representatives offered the CTA a 40-50 percent discount on diesel fuel for buses to benefit Chicagoans most in need of relief from soaring oil and gas prices this winter. We didn't know how else to reach enough people, said Consul Sanchez. Another difference between the Chicago offer and the programs enacted in the Northeast is that Citgo proposed to work with a government agency, rather than nonprofit organizations. The CTA relies on the US federal government - which is in a constant war of words with Venezuelan President Chavez - for much of its funding. In fact, just weeks after Citgo made its offer to the CTA, Congress signed the Federal Transportation Appropriations bill, allocating $89 million in infrastructure project funds the CTA had been seeking for years. Representatives from the US State Department and city officials, including Aldermen involved in
Re: [Biofuel] Chicago Turns Down Discounted Venezuelan Oil
This is a delivery agreement with a US company Citgo owned by Venezuela and a US city, regarding deliveries of discounted energy. I fail to see what might be illegal. Hakan At 16:17 05/01/2006, you wrote: IIRC, it's not legal for individual states or cities to make treaties with foreign nations, as such an agreement might be considered. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 23:56 Subject: [Biofuel] Chicago Turns Down Discounted Venezuelan Oil http://newstandardnews.net/content/index.cfm/items/2710 Chicago Turns Down Discounted Venezuelan Oil by Jessica Pupovac (bio) As Chicago's poorest face an increase to already-high public transit fees, the city is ignoring an offer of discounted diesel fuel to benefit low-income people. Chicago, Dec 28, 2005 - The Chicago Transit Authority is refusing an opportunity to alleviate commuting costs for hundreds of thousands in the Windy City's low-income neighborhoods. Instead of accepting deeply discounted fuel from the Venezuela-owned Citgo Petroleum Corporation, the city is instead raising fares to solve budget shortfalls. In an October meeting with representatives from the Chicago Transit Authority (CTA), the city's Department of Energy and other city officials, Citgo unveiled a plan to provide the Chicago with low-cost diesel fuel. The company's stipulation, at the bidding of Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez, was that the CTA, in turn, pass those savings on to poor residents in the form free or discounted fare cards. But two months later, despite claims of a looming budget crisis, the CTA president has no intent or plan to accept the offer, according to CTA spokesperson Ibis Antongiorgi. She gave no explanation. According to Venezuela's consul general in Chicago, Martin Sanchez, the CTA has yet to inform his office of its decision to decline the discount offer. In place of the proposed discount, which the CTA apparently does not want Chicagoans to even know about, budget shortfalls will be addressed by fare hikes. Chicagoans who are unaware of the Venezuela offer will be hit with an increase of 25 cents per ride next month, and discounted route-to-route transfers will be eliminated for passengers paying cash. This is going to hurt the poor and the minority people, like me, said Dorothy Chew, resident of Humboldt Park, where one-third of residents live below the federally recognized poverty level - currently just $16,000 for a family of three. Chew relies on the CTA to get to work and to Chicago Commons, where she attends classes daily in preparation for taking her GED. Since she rarely has money to invest in a fare card, she will be forced to pay for transfers the majority of the time. Chew's classmate, Linda Cox, works a minimum-wage job and has been a Public Aid recipient for 15 years. She also relies heavily on public transportation. I only earn $560 a month and of that, over $200 a month goes to my bus fare, Cox told The NewStandard. I have a 15-year-old and a 17-year-old who also need to get to school. If they change the prices and take away transfers, there are going to be a lot of days missed. I already see no money at the end of the month. The offer of discount fuel is not just confined to Chicago. Over the Thanksgiving holiday, the first of Venezuela's oil-for-the-poor programs in the US was launched. Citgo struck a deal with three nonprofit organizations in the Bronx to deliver 5 million gallons of heating oil at 45 percent below the market price. The deal will amount to a savings of $4 million for the 8,000 low-income households slated to benefit from the plan. This is going to hurt the poor and the minority people, like me. -- Dorothy Chew Citgo has made a similar arrangement with Citizens Energy Corp. in Boston for the sale and distribution of 12 million gallons, saving low-income and elderly residents there a total of $10 million. The company's website says that it expects to expand the program to other boroughs in New York City and that it is exploring the possibility of offering discounted fuel to residents in Maine, Rhode Island, Connecticut and Pennsylvania. However, in all of Illinois, only about 12,000 households use heating oil. So instead of fuel for heat, Citgo representatives offered the CTA a 40-50 percent discount on diesel fuel for buses to benefit Chicagoans most in need of relief from soaring oil and gas prices this winter. We didn't know how else to reach enough people, said Consul Sanchez. Another difference between the Chicago offer and the programs enacted in the Northeast is that Citgo proposed to work with a government agency, rather than nonprofit organizations. The CTA relies on the US federal government - which is in a constant war of words with Venezuelan President Chavez - for much of its funding. In fact, just weeks after Citgo made its offer to the CTA, Congress signed the Federal Transportation
Re: [Biofuel] Chicago Turns Down Discounted Venezuelan Oil
Very true, but wouldn't they be signing a contract with Citgo and not Venezuela. Greg and April wrote: IIRC, it's not legal for individual states or cities to make treaties with foreign nations, as such an agreement might be considered. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 23:56 Subject: [Biofuel] Chicago Turns Down Discounted Venezuelan Oil http://newstandardnews.net/content/index.cfm/items/2710 Chicago Turns Down Discounted Venezuelan Oil by Jessica Pupovac (bio) As Chicago's poorest face an increase to already-high public transit fees, the city is ignoring an offer of discounted diesel fuel to benefit low-income people. Chicago, Dec 28, 2005 - The Chicago Transit Authority is refusing an opportunity to alleviate commuting costs for hundreds of thousands in the Windy City's low-income neighborhoods. Instead of accepting deeply discounted fuel from the Venezuela-owned Citgo Petroleum Corporation, the city is instead raising fares to solve budget shortfalls. In an October meeting with representatives from the Chicago Transit Authority (CTA), the city's Department of Energy and other city officials, Citgo unveiled a plan to provide the Chicago with low-cost diesel fuel. The company's stipulation, at the bidding of Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez, was that the CTA, in turn, pass those savings on to poor residents in the form free or discounted fare cards. But two months later, despite claims of a looming budget crisis, the CTA president has no intent or plan to accept the offer, according to CTA spokesperson Ibis Antongiorgi. She gave no explanation. According to Venezuela's consul general in Chicago, Martin Sanchez, the CTA has yet to inform his office of its decision to decline the discount offer. In place of the proposed discount, which the CTA apparently does not want Chicagoans to even know about, budget shortfalls will be addressed by fare hikes. Chicagoans who are unaware of the Venezuela offer will be hit with an increase of 25 cents per ride next month, and discounted route-to-route transfers will be eliminated for passengers paying cash. This is going to hurt the poor and the minority people, like me, said Dorothy Chew, resident of Humboldt Park, where one-third of residents live below the federally recognized poverty level - currently just $16,000 for a family of three. Chew relies on the CTA to get to work and to Chicago Commons, where she attends classes daily in preparation for taking her GED. Since she rarely has money to invest in a fare card, she will be forced to pay for transfers the majority of the time. Chew's classmate, Linda Cox, works a minimum-wage job and has been a Public Aid recipient for 15 years. She also relies heavily on public transportation. I only earn $560 a month and of that, over $200 a month goes to my bus fare, Cox told The NewStandard. I have a 15-year-old and a 17-year-old who also need to get to school. If they change the prices and take away transfers, there are going to be a lot of days missed. I already see no money at the end of the month. The offer of discount fuel is not just confined to Chicago. Over the Thanksgiving holiday, the first of Venezuela's oil-for-the-poor programs in the US was launched. Citgo struck a deal with three nonprofit organizations in the Bronx to deliver 5 million gallons of heating oil at 45 percent below the market price. The deal will amount to a savings of $4 million for the 8,000 low-income households slated to benefit from the plan. This is going to hurt the poor and the minority people, like me. -- Dorothy Chew Citgo has made a similar arrangement with Citizens Energy Corp. in Boston for the sale and distribution of 12 million gallons, saving low-income and elderly residents there a total of $10 million. The company's website says that it expects to expand the program to other boroughs in New York City and that it is exploring the possibility of offering discounted fuel to residents in Maine, Rhode Island, Connecticut and Pennsylvania. However, in all of Illinois, only about 12,000 households use heating oil. So instead of fuel for heat, Citgo representatives offered the CTA a 40-50 percent discount on diesel fuel for buses to benefit Chicagoans most in need of relief from soaring oil and gas prices this winter. We didn't know how else to reach enough people, said Consul Sanchez. Another difference between the Chicago offer and the programs enacted in the Northeast is that Citgo proposed to work with a government agency, rather than nonprofit organizations. The CTA relies on the US federal government - which is in a constant war of words with Venezuelan President Chavez - for much of its funding. In fact, just weeks after Citgo made its offer to the CTA, Congress signed the Federal Transportation Appropriations bill,
Re: [Biofuel] Chicago Turns Down Discounted Venezuelan Oil
Not really. See a previous post with the subject - Venezuela Oil Fields Back in State Control, from Keith Addison: In 2001, it passed a new law requiring oil production to be carried out by companies majority-owned by the government. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Marty Phee [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 10:04 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Chicago Turns Down Discounted Venezuelan Oil Very true, but wouldn't they be signing a contract with Citgo and not Venezuela. Greg and April wrote: IIRC, it's not legal for individual states or cities to make treaties with foreign nations, as such an agreement might be considered. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 23:56 Subject: [Biofuel] Chicago Turns Down Discounted Venezuelan Oil http://newstandardnews.net/content/index.cfm/items/2710 Chicago Turns Down Discounted Venezuelan Oil by Jessica Pupovac (bio) As Chicago's poorest face an increase to already-high public transit fees, the city is ignoring an offer of discounted diesel fuel to benefit low-income people. Chicago, Dec 28, 2005 - The Chicago Transit Authority is refusing an opportunity to alleviate commuting costs for hundreds of thousands in the Windy City's low-income neighborhoods. Instead of accepting deeply discounted fuel from the Venezuela-owned Citgo Petroleum Corporation, the city is instead raising fares to solve budget shortfalls. In an October meeting with representatives from the Chicago Transit Authority (CTA), the city's Department of Energy and other city officials, Citgo unveiled a plan to provide the Chicago with low-cost diesel fuel. The company's stipulation, at the bidding of Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez, was that the CTA, in turn, pass those savings on to poor residents in the form free or discounted fare cards. But two months later, despite claims of a looming budget crisis, the CTA president has no intent or plan to accept the offer, according to CTA spokesperson Ibis Antongiorgi. She gave no explanation. According to Venezuela's consul general in Chicago, Martin Sanchez, the CTA has yet to inform his office of its decision to decline the discount offer. In place of the proposed discount, which the CTA apparently does not want Chicagoans to even know about, budget shortfalls will be addressed by fare hikes. Chicagoans who are unaware of the Venezuela offer will be hit with an increase of 25 cents per ride next month, and discounted route-to-route transfers will be eliminated for passengers paying cash. This is going to hurt the poor and the minority people, like me, said Dorothy Chew, resident of Humboldt Park, where one-third of residents live below the federally recognized poverty level - currently just $16,000 for a family of three. Chew relies on the CTA to get to work and to Chicago Commons, where she attends classes daily in preparation for taking her GED. Since she rarely has money to invest in a fare card, she will be forced to pay for transfers the majority of the time. Chew's classmate, Linda Cox, works a minimum-wage job and has been a Public Aid recipient for 15 years. She also relies heavily on public transportation. I only earn $560 a month and of that, over $200 a month goes to my bus fare, Cox told The NewStandard. I have a 15-year-old and a 17-year-old who also need to get to school. If they change the prices and take away transfers, there are going to be a lot of days missed. I already see no money at the end of the month. The offer of discount fuel is not just confined to Chicago. Over the Thanksgiving holiday, the first of Venezuela's oil-for-the-poor programs in the US was launched. Citgo struck a deal with three nonprofit organizations in the Bronx to deliver 5 million gallons of heating oil at 45 percent below the market price. The deal will amount to a savings of $4 million for the 8,000 low-income households slated to benefit from the plan. This is going to hurt the poor and the minority people, like me. -- Dorothy Chew Citgo has made a similar arrangement with Citizens Energy Corp. in Boston for the sale and distribution of 12 million gallons, saving low-income and elderly residents there a total of $10 million. The company's website says that it expects to expand the program to other boroughs in New York City and that it is exploring the possibility of offering discounted fuel to residents in Maine, Rhode Island, Connecticut and Pennsylvania. However, in all of Illinois, only about 12,000 households use heating oil. So instead of fuel for heat, Citgo representatives offered the CTA a 40-50 percent discount on diesel fuel for buses to benefit Chicagoans most in need of relief from soaring oil and gas prices this winter. We didn't know how else to reach enough people, said Consul Sanchez
Re: [Biofuel] Chicago Turns Down Discounted Venezuelan Oil
It is one thing to distribute heating oil at a discount through local non-profit charities, it is another to give a local government, a discount on fuel that is used on a for profit program. An agreement between a foreign government owned company and a local government is an agreement between 2 governments, the company is just a front for one of the governments. It could be argued in court that the foreign government was trying to influence the local populace or politicians, and the below cost fuel was a bribe, since the fuel could be used to make a profit.That is why treaties between local US governments and foreign nations are illegal. If Chicago gave up all of it's busses to a private non-profit organization, not connected with any government, there should be no legal problems, with the non-profit organization accepting the fuel, and using it to run the busses - using the bus fairs to pay for the fuel and running and maintance of the busses. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 10:13 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Chicago Turns Down Discounted Venezuelan Oil This is a delivery agreement with a US company Citgo owned by Venezuela and a US city, regarding deliveries of discounted energy. I fail to see what might be illegal. Hakan At 16:17 05/01/2006, you wrote: IIRC, it's not legal for individual states or cities to make treaties with foreign nations, as such an agreement might be considered. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 23:56 Subject: [Biofuel] Chicago Turns Down Discounted Venezuelan Oil http://newstandardnews.net/content/index.cfm/items/2710 Chicago Turns Down Discounted Venezuelan Oil by Jessica Pupovac (bio) As Chicago's poorest face an increase to already-high public transit fees, the city is ignoring an offer of discounted diesel fuel to benefit low-income people. Chicago, Dec 28, 2005 - The Chicago Transit Authority is refusing an opportunity to alleviate commuting costs for hundreds of thousands in the Windy City's low-income neighborhoods. Instead of accepting deeply discounted fuel from the Venezuela-owned Citgo Petroleum Corporation, the city is instead raising fares to solve budget shortfalls. In an October meeting with representatives from the Chicago Transit Authority (CTA), the city's Department of Energy and other city officials, Citgo unveiled a plan to provide the Chicago with low-cost diesel fuel. The company's stipulation, at the bidding of Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez, was that the CTA, in turn, pass those savings on to poor residents in the form free or discounted fare cards. But two months later, despite claims of a looming budget crisis, the CTA president has no intent or plan to accept the offer, according to CTA spokesperson Ibis Antongiorgi. She gave no explanation. According to Venezuela's consul general in Chicago, Martin Sanchez, the CTA has yet to inform his office of its decision to decline the discount offer. In place of the proposed discount, which the CTA apparently does not want Chicagoans to even know about, budget shortfalls will be addressed by fare hikes. Chicagoans who are unaware of the Venezuela offer will be hit with an increase of 25 cents per ride next month, and discounted route-to-route transfers will be eliminated for passengers paying cash. This is going to hurt the poor and the minority people, like me, said Dorothy Chew, resident of Humboldt Park, where one-third of residents live below the federally recognized poverty level - currently just $16,000 for a family of three. Chew relies on the CTA to get to work and to Chicago Commons, where she attends classes daily in preparation for taking her GED. Since she rarely has money to invest in a fare card, she will be forced to pay for transfers the majority of the time. Chew's classmate, Linda Cox, works a minimum-wage job and has been a Public Aid recipient for 15 years. She also relies heavily on public transportation. I only earn $560 a month and of that, over $200 a month goes to my bus fare, Cox told The NewStandard. I have a 15-year-old and a 17-year-old who also need to get to school. If they change the prices and take away transfers, there are going to be a lot of days missed. I already see no money at the end of the month. The offer of discount fuel is not just confined to Chicago. Over the Thanksgiving holiday, the first of Venezuela's oil-for-the-poor programs in the US was launched. Citgo struck a deal with three nonprofit organizations in the Bronx to deliver 5 million gallons of heating oil at 45 percent below the market price. The deal will amount to a savings of $4 million for the 8,000 low-income households slated to benefit from the plan. This is going to hurt the poor and the minority people, like me. -- Dorothy Chew Citgo has made a similar
Re: [Biofuel] Chicago Turns Down Discounted Venezuelan Oil
Large difference between signing a treaty and signing a contract. Until such time as some form of federal embargo is placed against Venezuela, the market remains open and there are no restrictions against such a transaction. Todd Swearingen Greg and April wrote: Not really. See a previous post with the subject - Venezuela Oil Fields Back in State Control, from Keith Addison: In 2001, it passed a new law requiring oil production to be carried out by companies majority-owned by the government. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Marty Phee [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 10:04 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Chicago Turns Down Discounted Venezuelan Oil Very true, but wouldn't they be signing a contract with Citgo and not Venezuela. Greg and April wrote: IIRC, it's not legal for individual states or cities to make treaties with foreign nations, as such an agreement might be considered. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 23:56 Subject: [Biofuel] Chicago Turns Down Discounted Venezuelan Oil http://newstandardnews.net/content/index.cfm/items/2710 Chicago Turns Down Discounted Venezuelan Oil by Jessica Pupovac (bio) As Chicago's poorest face an increase to already-high public transit fees, the city is ignoring an offer of discounted diesel fuel to benefit low-income people. Chicago, Dec 28, 2005 - The Chicago Transit Authority is refusing an opportunity to alleviate commuting costs for hundreds of thousands in the Windy City's low-income neighborhoods. Instead of accepting deeply discounted fuel from the Venezuela-owned Citgo Petroleum Corporation, the city is instead raising fares to solve budget shortfalls. In an October meeting with representatives from the Chicago Transit Authority (CTA), the city's Department of Energy and other city officials, Citgo unveiled a plan to provide the Chicago with low-cost diesel fuel. The company's stipulation, at the bidding of Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez, was that the CTA, in turn, pass those savings on to poor residents in the form free or discounted fare cards. But two months later, despite claims of a looming budget crisis, the CTA president has no intent or plan to accept the offer, according to CTA spokesperson Ibis Antongiorgi. She gave no explanation. According to Venezuela's consul general in Chicago, Martin Sanchez, the CTA has yet to inform his office of its decision to decline the discount offer. In place of the proposed discount, which the CTA apparently does not want Chicagoans to even know about, budget shortfalls will be addressed by fare hikes. Chicagoans who are unaware of the Venezuela offer will be hit with an increase of 25 cents per ride next month, and discounted route-to-route transfers will be eliminated for passengers paying cash. This is going to hurt the poor and the minority people, like me, said Dorothy Chew, resident of Humboldt Park, where one-third of residents live below the federally recognized poverty level - currently just $16,000 for a family of three. Chew relies on the CTA to get to work and to Chicago Commons, where she attends classes daily in preparation for taking her GED. Since she rarely has money to invest in a fare card, she will be forced to pay for transfers the majority of the time. Chew's classmate, Linda Cox, works a minimum-wage job and has been a Public Aid recipient for 15 years. She also relies heavily on public transportation. I only earn $560 a month and of that, over $200 a month goes to my bus fare, Cox told The NewStandard. I have a 15-year-old and a 17-year-old who also need to get to school. If they change the prices and take away transfers, there are going to be a lot of days missed. I already see no money at the end of the month. The offer of discount fuel is not just confined to Chicago. Over the Thanksgiving holiday, the first of Venezuela's oil-for-the-poor programs in the US was launched. Citgo struck a deal with three nonprofit organizations in the Bronx to deliver 5 million gallons of heating oil at 45 percent below the market price. The deal will amount to a savings of $4 million for the 8,000 low-income households slated to benefit from the plan. This is going to hurt the poor and the minority people, like me. -- Dorothy Chew Citgo has made a similar arrangement with Citizens Energy Corp. in Boston for the sale and distribution of 12 million gallons, saving low-income and elderly residents there a total of $10 million. The company's website says that it expects to expand the program to other boroughs in New York City and that it is exploring the possibility of offering discounted fuel to residents in Maine, Rhode Island, Connecticut and Pennsylvania. However, in all of Illinois, only about 12,000 households use heating oil. So instead of fuel for heat, Citgo representatives offered the CTA a 40-50
