RE: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You?
Anyone interested in the VW TDIs should, if you haven't already, check out www.tdiclub.com for more info. Just bought a Golf TDI and put my first tank of Biodiesel 100 in it this weekend. Wow, talk about running smooth (but a little power loss noticable.) I'm getting 46-55 MPG with the five speed, avoid the automatic if you can. Cheers! Ryan Tempe, AZ -Original Message- From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2002 12:13 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? Steve, Found a 99' Jetta TDI for $6900. Needs a couple of front fenders, right side hit, needs a fr/f ront door, but mechanically perfect with 51,ooo miles. I'm I'm going to make the guy an offer tomorrow. Wish me luck. Jesse I'll wish you luck, Jesse. Let us know, eh? BEST OF GOOD LUCK! regards Keith Portfolio: http://www.jesseparris.com/Portfolio_Jesse_Parris/ Jesse Parris | studio53 | graphics / web design | stamford, ct | 203.324.4371 - Original Message - From: steve spence [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 7:22 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? Today I test drove a new vw beetle, turbo diesel. Now this is one fine automobile. 44mpg isn't shabby either. saw diesel today for $1.23 / us gallon. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/ Human powered devices, equipment, and transport - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/2000/humanpower.htm [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: stewart hyde [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 6:32 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? Agreed My 14 year old Citroen BX turbodesel/GTI hybrid Gets 50 mpg (Imperial 4.55 ltr) and runs beautifilly with rapeseed oil @50% fuel extender Stewart from Wales UK where fuel is almost one dollar per litre. - Original Message - From: steve spence [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 3:30 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? I drove a BMW minicooper yesterday, and although it was cute, I would not call 33mpg on premium unleaded clean. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/k6cvND/n97DAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You?
Keith, Thanks for the time machine. Makes me want to vomit that about all Americans know are 283 Ford Falcons and the whole bastardized ilk when they trip back into time. God to own a mini anything when Detroit was at its worst Hey...wait a minutethey still are! Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Keith Addison To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 1:24 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? I drove a BMW minicooper yesterday, and although it was cute, I would not call 33mpg on premium unleaded clean. Hi Steve You want to take it out on a really tight and twisty mountain road that you know really well. Wait a mo while I shift gear... right, Old Fart mode... These young people of today - yesterday he drove one. I drove one in 1963. Hot little thing, then, handled really nicely. The Minis were introduced in 1959, replacing the old Morris Minor, which is a sort of 4-wheeled equivalent of a DC-3 Dakota. Start to consider that level of technology a bit and you get to thinking it's all improved a helluva lot since then, but somehow everything's gone steeply downhill, and could these two things have something to do with each other? If you really like KISS and AT, maybe you'll stop with the Dakota and the Morris Minor. Do they still make Morris Minors in India? They were, until recently. Elsewhere they're collector's items. Anyway, the Mini replaced it, and cost at the time 499 British pounds sterling (about a thousand dollars?). 850cc 4-cylinder, the Cooper version was 1,000cc, much faster. I had a Mini, my first car. I had another one a few years later, working on a newspaper in Johannesburg. I used to go to Cape Town for the weekend, one thousand miles, put my foot down and took it off again when I got there 12-13 hours later. Need big cars for big distances? Nope. The Mini and the Mini Cooper were made by an old company called Austin that had recently merged with another old company called Morris, and finally became BMC (British Motor Corporation), and then died. The story of British industry. What's really interesting about the Mini is the design. It was a real trend-setter, the first transverse-engine front-wheel drive, and the basic design has hardly changed in more than 40 years, just steadily improved. The only comparison I can think of is the VW Beetle. Beetle owners and Mini owners hated each other. So why change models every year? Could it be perhaps just marketing and a packaging job? I think that's a strong point in the Mini Cooper's favour. In deciding which car's green and which isn't the eco-costs of manufacturing ought to be considered, and this kind of design continuity surely lowers those costs. So, though the fuel economy isn't that great (it never was - was surprised to see it rating green in that story), it might be cleaner than it looks at first. The Japanese love Mini Coopers, by the way. Regards Keith Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/ Human powered devices, equipment, and transport - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/2000/humanpower.htm [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Cc: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 9:23 AM Subject: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=12917 AlterNet -- So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? Allie Gottlieb, Metro Silicon Valley http://www.metroactive.com April 19, 2002 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/k6cvND/n97DAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You?
My 92 Honda Civic has been doing it for years, that is how I avoided having to have a truck. Kim AOAR Welch B. wrote: i did not know that a small car could pull a trailer and not overheat. -Original Message- From: Appal Energy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2002 4:02 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? Hey... I just drove a 1986 VW Golf, filled to the brim with biodiesel, hauling a trailer full of hay and about 400 pounds of boiler parts and got ~44mpg. I'll take utility and green over a chick car and green any dayI'm t old for chick. Just keep praying for acid drought, another Arab oil embargo and $3.50 a gallon at the pump. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: steve spence To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 7:22 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? Today I test drove a new vw beetle, turbo diesel. Now this is one fine automobile. 44mpg isn't shabby either. saw diesel today for $1.23 / us gallon. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/ http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/ Human powered devices, equipment, and transport - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/2000/humanpower.htm http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/2000/humanpower.htm [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: stewart hyde [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 6:32 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? Agreed My 14 year old Citroen BX turbodesel/GTI hybrid Gets 50 mpg (Imperial 4.55 ltr) and runs beautifilly with rapeseed oil @50% fuel extender Stewart from Wales UK where fuel is almost one dollar per litre. - Original Message - From: steve spence [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 3:30 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? I drove a BMW minicooper yesterday, and although it was cute, I would not call 33mpg on premium unleaded clean. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/ http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/ Human powered devices, equipment, and transport - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/2000/humanpower.htm http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/2000/humanpower.htm [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Cc: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 9:23 AM Subject: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=12917 http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=12917 AlterNet -- So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? Allie Gottlieb, Metro Silicon Valley http://www.metroactive.com http://www.metroactive.com April 19, 2002 If you're like me, and you are, you want a good, cheap, fast, safe and cute car that can take you to work and back, and out for fun, on little or no gas. You also need room to cart around your laptop, your nonfat latte, a pal and your four-piece silver-sparkle Ludwig drum set, which in my case is named Natasha J. Sparky. Since we've got so much in common, it makes sense to share car-search secrets. I'll start. What I've learned about the latest electric, hybrid and just plain cuter- or cleaner-than-thou vehicles that you can buy or lease at this moment there are plenty of choices, combinations and features. Sorting them all out is confusing but not impossible. The ones accessible to me as of presstime were the BMW Mini Cooper, the Honda Insight, the Honda Civic Hybrid, the Honda Civic GX natural-gas vehicle, the Toyota Prius, the Toyota Rav4 EV, the Corbin Sparrow, the Ford Th!nk, the Ford Ranger EV and the DaimlerChrysler GEM. Idling Politics Here's another thing I've learned. Despite all the chatter about fuel efficiency from the Legislature lately, and the attempts by various cities to get their fleets on a greener track, this has been a slow-going revolution with plenty of setbacks. Witness last month's rise and fall of the Corporate Average Fuel Economy standards: Senator John Kerry's (D-Mass.) proposal to require new vehicles to average a respectable 36 mpg of gas by 2015 did a giant
Re: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You?
had an '80 escort, does that count? Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/ Human powered devices, equipment, and transport - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/2000/humanpower.htm [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2002 1:01 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? Keith, Thanks for the time machine. Makes me want to vomit that about all Americans know are 283 Ford Falcons and the whole bastardized ilk when they trip back into time. God to own a mini anything when Detroit was at its worst Hey...wait a minutethey still are! Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Keith Addison To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 1:24 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? I drove a BMW minicooper yesterday, and although it was cute, I would not call 33mpg on premium unleaded clean. Hi Steve You want to take it out on a really tight and twisty mountain road that you know really well. Wait a mo while I shift gear... right, Old Fart mode... These young people of today - yesterday he drove one. I drove one in 1963. Hot little thing, then, handled really nicely. The Minis were introduced in 1959, replacing the old Morris Minor, which is a sort of 4-wheeled equivalent of a DC-3 Dakota. Start to consider that level of technology a bit and you get to thinking it's all improved a helluva lot since then, but somehow everything's gone steeply downhill, and could these two things have something to do with each other? If you really like KISS and AT, maybe you'll stop with the Dakota and the Morris Minor. Do they still make Morris Minors in India? They were, until recently. Elsewhere they're collector's items. Anyway, the Mini replaced it, and cost at the time 499 British pounds sterling (about a thousand dollars?). 850cc 4-cylinder, the Cooper version was 1,000cc, much faster. I had a Mini, my first car. I had another one a few years later, working on a newspaper in Johannesburg. I used to go to Cape Town for the weekend, one thousand miles, put my foot down and took it off again when I got there 12-13 hours later. Need big cars for big distances? Nope. The Mini and the Mini Cooper were made by an old company called Austin that had recently merged with another old company called Morris, and finally became BMC (British Motor Corporation), and then died. The story of British industry. What's really interesting about the Mini is the design. It was a real trend-setter, the first transverse-engine front-wheel drive, and the basic design has hardly changed in more than 40 years, just steadily improved. The only comparison I can think of is the VW Beetle. Beetle owners and Mini owners hated each other. So why change models every year? Could it be perhaps just marketing and a packaging job? I think that's a strong point in the Mini Cooper's favour. In deciding which car's green and which isn't the eco-costs of manufacturing ought to be considered, and this kind of design continuity surely lowers those costs. So, though the fuel economy isn't that great (it never was - was surprised to see it rating green in that story), it might be cleaner than it looks at first. The Japanese love Mini Coopers, by the way. Regards Keith Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/ Human powered devices, equipment, and transport - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/2000/humanpower.htm [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Cc: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 9:23 AM Subject: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=12917 AlterNet -- So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? Allie Gottlieb, Metro Silicon Valley http://www.metroactive.com April 19, 2002 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com
Re: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You?
Steve, Found a 99' Jetta TDI for $6900. Needs a couple of front fenders, right side hit, needs a fr/f ront door, but mechanically perfect with 51,ooo miles. I'm I'm going to make the guy an offer tomorrow. Wish me luck. Jesse Portfolio: http://www.jesseparris.com/Portfolio_Jesse_Parris/ Jesse Parris | studio53 | graphics / web design | stamford, ct | 203.324.4371 - Original Message - From: steve spence [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 7:22 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? Today I test drove a new vw beetle, turbo diesel. Now this is one fine automobile. 44mpg isn't shabby either. saw diesel today for $1.23 / us gallon. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/ Human powered devices, equipment, and transport - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/2000/humanpower.htm [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: stewart hyde [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 6:32 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? Agreed My 14 year old Citroen BX turbodesel/GTI hybrid Gets 50 mpg (Imperial 4.55 ltr) and runs beautifilly with rapeseed oil @50% fuel extender Stewart from Wales UK where fuel is almost one dollar per litre. - Original Message - From: steve spence [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 3:30 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? I drove a BMW minicooper yesterday, and although it was cute, I would not call 33mpg on premium unleaded clean. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/ Human powered devices, equipment, and transport - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/2000/humanpower.htm [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Cc: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 9:23 AM Subject: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=12917 AlterNet -- So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? Allie Gottlieb, Metro Silicon Valley http://www.metroactive.com April 19, 2002 If you're like me, and you are, you want a good, cheap, fast, safe and cute car that can take you to work and back, and out for fun, on little or no gas. You also need room to cart around your laptop, your nonfat latte, a pal and your four-piece silver-sparkle Ludwig drum set, which in my case is named Natasha J. Sparky. Since we've got so much in common, it makes sense to share car-search secrets. I'll start. What I've learned about the latest electric, hybrid and just plain cuter- or cleaner-than-thou vehicles that you can buy or lease at this moment there are plenty of choices, combinations and features. Sorting them all out is confusing but not impossible. The ones accessible to me as of presstime were the BMW Mini Cooper, the Honda Insight, the Honda Civic Hybrid, the Honda Civic GX natural-gas vehicle, the Toyota Prius, the Toyota Rav4 EV, the Corbin Sparrow, the Ford Th!nk, the Ford Ranger EV and the DaimlerChrysler GEM. Idling Politics Here's another thing I've learned. Despite all the chatter about fuel efficiency from the Legislature lately, and the attempts by various cities to get their fleets on a greener track, this has been a slow-going revolution with plenty of setbacks. Witness last month's rise and fall of the Corporate Average Fuel Economy standards: Senator John Kerry's (D-Mass.) proposal to require new vehicles to average a respectable 36 mpg of gas by 2015 did a giant belly flop. SUVs get to be an estimated 25 percent more polluting than other cars. Gasoline has drivers over an oil barrel, and so, as they do in any time of war with oil-producing nations, gas prices are going up. Despite all this, a good clean car is still hard to find. It seems like we should have evolved more by now. For years, there's been hope that cars will become greener in the form of research on cleaner cars. The web is overflowing with information about alternative fuel vehicles from the U.S. Department of Energy and agencies like the Natural Resources Defense Council that push for fuel-efficiency legislation. Car dealers, however, blame the public's disinterest for the Greenmobile's underwhelming entrance into the market. Almost no one pays any real attention to environmental ratings when buying a car, the dealers say
Re: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You?
While there's some to argue with in the author's story, I'm glad she chose to do it, so that's good. I wondered about this claim, below, that the EPA forces automakers to meet a ZEV standard by 2003. I assume that this is mistaken and that the author is confusing the Cal EPA with CARB. Am I mistaken? I know that some other states have talked about adopting California standards as a measure, but I am not aware of any Federal thing that mirrors that Cal Thing. There is such a thing as the Cal EPA http://www.calepa.ca.gov/ and it is they who visited the midwest and did research on ethanol on behalf of the governor and reported back to him and to CARB (at least I think this was the structure of things but I probably have some of it wrong) as to whether ethanol was the best way to satisfy the oxygenate mandate. There gist of their findings were, I think, that ethanol did help clean air in some ways but not in others, and that from a scientific standpoint there were better less-dated ways to satisfy clean-air goals. I am not voicing agreement, just passing on what I heard. http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=12917 Who's Driving Whom? Currently, car manufacturers that distribute in the United States are producing cleaner cars. They have to because the Environmental Protection Agency makes them. By 2003, zero-emission vehicles must make up 10 percent of each major automaker's stock. However, manufacturers apparently aren't required to make these cars entirely available to the public. They only need to meet their quota of zero-emission vehicles. Then dealers get to decide which cars to push, and buyers get to pick the ones they want. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/k6cvND/n97DAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You?
Excellent! The luck o the Irish to ya! Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/ Human powered devices, equipment, and transport - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/2000/humanpower.htm [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: studio53 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2002 1:11 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? Steve, Found a 99' Jetta TDI for $6900. Needs a couple of front fenders, right side hit, needs a fr/f ront door, but mechanically perfect with 51,ooo miles. I'm I'm going to make the guy an offer tomorrow. Wish me luck. Jesse Portfolio: http://www.jesseparris.com/Portfolio_Jesse_Parris/ Jesse Parris | studio53 | graphics / web design | stamford, ct | 203.324.4371 - Original Message - From: steve spence [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 7:22 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? Today I test drove a new vw beetle, turbo diesel. Now this is one fine automobile. 44mpg isn't shabby either. saw diesel today for $1.23 / us gallon. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/ Human powered devices, equipment, and transport - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/2000/humanpower.htm [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: stewart hyde [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 6:32 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? Agreed My 14 year old Citroen BX turbodesel/GTI hybrid Gets 50 mpg (Imperial 4.55 ltr) and runs beautifilly with rapeseed oil @50% fuel extender Stewart from Wales UK where fuel is almost one dollar per litre. - Original Message - From: steve spence [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 3:30 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? I drove a BMW minicooper yesterday, and although it was cute, I would not call 33mpg on premium unleaded clean. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/ Human powered devices, equipment, and transport - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/2000/humanpower.htm [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Cc: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 9:23 AM Subject: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=12917 AlterNet -- So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? Allie Gottlieb, Metro Silicon Valley http://www.metroactive.com April 19, 2002 If you're like me, and you are, you want a good, cheap, fast, safe and cute car that can take you to work and back, and out for fun, on little or no gas. You also need room to cart around your laptop, your nonfat latte, a pal and your four-piece silver-sparkle Ludwig drum set, which in my case is named Natasha J. Sparky. Since we've got so much in common, it makes sense to share car-search secrets. I'll start. What I've learned about the latest electric, hybrid and just plain cuter- or cleaner-than-thou vehicles that you can buy or lease at this moment there are plenty of choices, combinations and features. Sorting them all out is confusing but not impossible. The ones accessible to me as of presstime were the BMW Mini Cooper, the Honda Insight, the Honda Civic Hybrid, the Honda Civic GX natural-gas vehicle, the Toyota Prius, the Toyota Rav4 EV, the Corbin Sparrow, the Ford Th!nk, the Ford Ranger EV and the DaimlerChrysler GEM. Idling Politics Here's another thing I've learned. Despite all the chatter about fuel efficiency from the Legislature lately, and the attempts by various cities to get their fleets on a greener track, this has been a slow-going revolution with plenty of setbacks. Witness last month's rise and fall of the Corporate Average Fuel Economy standards: Senator John Kerry's (D-Mass.) proposal to require new vehicles to average a respectable 36 mpg of gas by 2015 did a giant belly flop. SUVs get to be an estimated 25 percent more polluting than other cars. Gasoline has drivers over an oil barrel, and so, as they do in any time of war with oil-producing nations, gas prices are going up. Despite all this, a good clean car is still
Re: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You?
Steve, Found a 99' Jetta TDI for $6900. Needs a couple of front fenders, right side hit, needs a fr/f ront door, but mechanically perfect with 51,ooo miles. I'm I'm going to make the guy an offer tomorrow. Wish me luck. Jesse I'll wish you luck, Jesse. Let us know, eh? BEST OF GOOD LUCK! regards Keith Portfolio: http://www.jesseparris.com/Portfolio_Jesse_Parris/ Jesse Parris | studio53 | graphics / web design | stamford, ct | 203.324.4371 - Original Message - From: steve spence [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 7:22 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? Today I test drove a new vw beetle, turbo diesel. Now this is one fine automobile. 44mpg isn't shabby either. saw diesel today for $1.23 / us gallon. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/ Human powered devices, equipment, and transport - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/2000/humanpower.htm [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: stewart hyde [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 6:32 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? Agreed My 14 year old Citroen BX turbodesel/GTI hybrid Gets 50 mpg (Imperial 4.55 ltr) and runs beautifilly with rapeseed oil @50% fuel extender Stewart from Wales UK where fuel is almost one dollar per litre. - Original Message - From: steve spence [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 3:30 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? I drove a BMW minicooper yesterday, and although it was cute, I would not call 33mpg on premium unleaded clean. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/k6cvND/n97DAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You?
I drove a BMW minicooper yesterday, and although it was cute, I would not call 33mpg on premium unleaded clean. Hi Steve You want to take it out on a really tight and twisty mountain road that you know really well. Wait a mo while I shift gear... right, Old Fart mode... These young people of today - yesterday he drove one. I drove one in 1963. Hot little thing, then, handled really nicely. The Minis were introduced in 1959, replacing the old Morris Minor, which is a sort of 4-wheeled equivalent of a DC-3 Dakota. Start to consider that level of technology a bit and you get to thinking it's all improved a helluva lot since then, but somehow everything's gone steeply downhill, and could these two things have something to do with each other? If you really like KISS and AT, maybe you'll stop with the Dakota and the Morris Minor. Do they still make Morris Minors in India? They were, until recently. Elsewhere they're collector's items. Anyway, the Mini replaced it, and cost at the time 499 British pounds sterling (about a thousand dollars?). 850cc 4-cylinder, the Cooper version was 1,000cc, much faster. I had a Mini, my first car. I had another one a few years later, working on a newspaper in Johannesburg. I used to go to Cape Town for the weekend, one thousand miles, put my foot down and took it off again when I got there 12-13 hours later. Need big cars for big distances? Nope. The Mini and the Mini Cooper were made by an old company called Austin that had recently merged with another old company called Morris, and finally became BMC (British Motor Corporation), and then died. The story of British industry. What's really interesting about the Mini is the design. It was a real trend-setter, the first transverse-engine front-wheel drive, and the basic design has hardly changed in more than 40 years, just steadily improved. The only comparison I can think of is the VW Beetle. Beetle owners and Mini owners hated each other. So why change models every year? Could it be perhaps just marketing and a packaging job? I think that's a strong point in the Mini Cooper's favour. In deciding which car's green and which isn't the eco-costs of manufacturing ought to be considered, and this kind of design continuity surely lowers those costs. So, though the fuel economy isn't that great (it never was - was surprised to see it rating green in that story), it might be cleaner than it looks at first. The Japanese love Mini Coopers, by the way. Regards Keith Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/ Human powered devices, equipment, and transport - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/2000/humanpower.htm [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Cc: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 9:23 AM Subject: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=12917 AlterNet -- So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? Allie Gottlieb, Metro Silicon Valley http://www.metroactive.com April 19, 2002 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/k6cvND/n97DAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You?
- Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 1:24 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? I drove a BMW minicooper yesterday, and although it was cute, I would not call 33mpg on premium unleaded clean. Hi Steve You want to take it out on a really tight and twisty mountain road that you know really well. I did! ;-) Wait a mo while I shift gear... right, Old Fart mode... These young people of today - yesterday he drove one. I drove one in 1963. Hot little thing, then, handled really nicely. The Minis were introduced in 1959, replacing the old Morris Minor, which is a sort of 4-wheeled equivalent of a DC-3 Dakota. Start to consider that level of technology a bit and you get to thinking it's all improved a helluva lot since then, but somehow everything's gone steeply downhill, and could these two things have something to do with each other? If you really like KISS and AT, maybe you'll stop with the Dakota and the Morris Minor. Do they still make Morris Minors in India? They were, until recently. Elsewhere they're collector's items. These babies have the BMW Stability control with anti yaw, which includes mundane things like traction control and anti lock brakes. Anyway, the Mini replaced it, and cost at the time 499 British pounds sterling (about a thousand dollars?). 850cc 4-cylinder, the Cooper version was 1,000cc, much faster. I had a Mini, my first car. I had another one a few years later, working on a newspaper in Johannesburg. I used to go to Cape Town for the weekend, one thousand miles, put my foot down and took it off again when I got there 12-13 hours later. Need big cars for big distances? Nope. now we are up to 1.6l, 163 hp (at 6000 rpm) supercharged, intercooled bliss. the 6 speed getrag is a blessing to shift. at $25k fully loaded it's more fun than a beemer that costs $40k. The Mini and the Mini Cooper were made by an old company called Austin that had recently merged with another old company called Morris, and finally became BMC (British Motor Corporation), and then died. The story of British industry. now it's BMW. It no longer leaks oil ;-) What's really interesting about the Mini is the design. It was a real trend-setter, the first transverse-engine front-wheel drive, and the basic design has hardly changed in more than 40 years, just steadily improved. The only comparison I can think of is the VW Beetle. Beetle owners and Mini owners hated each other. The new beetle turbo (drove that one last night) is ok, but doesn't have the fun factor the mini has. and the clutch sucks So why change models every year? Could it be perhaps just marketing and a packaging job? I think that's a strong point in the Mini Cooper's favour. In deciding which car's green and which isn't the eco-costs of manufacturing ought to be considered, and this kind of design continuity surely lowers those costs. So, though the fuel economy isn't that great (it never was - was surprised to see it rating green in that story), it might be cleaner than it looks at first. Going to try out the Beetle diesel automatic today, that can be green (or yellow (grease)). The Japanese love Mini Coopers, by the way. I see why, it's adorable. Regards Keith Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/ Human powered devices, equipment, and transport - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/2000/humanpower.htm [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/k6cvND/n97DAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You?
It gets 33 at best (worse when I'm honking the supercharger at 6000 rpm), and there is no diesel option here in the USA. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/ Human powered devices, equipment, and transport - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/2000/humanpower.htm [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Martin Klingensmith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, April 26, 2002 10:50 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? My real car gets 30 mpg. I would think a minicooper would get 50 at least. Maybe on diesel? --- steve spence [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I drove a BMW minicooper yesterday, and although it was cute, I would not call 33mpg on premium unleaded clean. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/ Human powered devices, equipment, and transport - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/2000/humanpower.htm [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Cc: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 9:23 AM Subject: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=12917 AlterNet -- So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? Allie Gottlieb, Metro Silicon Valley http://www.metroactive.com April 19, 2002 If you're like me, and you are, you want a good, cheap, fast, safe and cute car that can take you to work and back, and out for fun, on little or no gas. You also need room to cart around your laptop, your nonfat latte, a pal and your four-piece silver-sparkle Ludwig drum set, which in my case is named Natasha J. Sparky. Since we've got so much in common, it makes sense to share car-search secrets. I'll start. What I've learned about the latest electric, hybrid and just plain cuter- or cleaner-than-thou vehicles that you can buy or lease at this moment there are plenty of choices, combinations and features. Sorting them all out is confusing but not impossible. The ones accessible to me as of presstime were the BMW Mini Cooper, the Honda Insight, the Honda Civic Hybrid, the Honda Civic GX natural-gas vehicle, the Toyota Prius, the Toyota Rav4 EV, the Corbin Sparrow, the Ford Th!nk, the Ford Ranger EV and the DaimlerChrysler GEM. Idling Politics Here's another thing I've learned. Despite all the chatter about fuel efficiency from the Legislature lately, and the attempts by various cities to get their fleets on a greener track, this has been a slow-going revolution with plenty of setbacks. Witness last month's rise and fall of the Corporate Average Fuel Economy standards: Senator John Kerry's (D-Mass.) proposal to require new vehicles to average a respectable 36 mpg of gas by 2015 did a giant belly flop. SUVs get to be an estimated 25 percent more polluting than other cars. Gasoline has drivers over an oil barrel, and so, as they do in any time of war with oil-producing nations, gas prices are going up. Despite all this, a good clean car is still hard to find. It seems like we should have evolved more by now. For years, there's been hope that cars will become greener in the form of research on cleaner cars. The web is overflowing with information about alternative fuel vehicles from the U.S. Department of Energy and agencies like the Natural Resources Defense Council that push for fuel-efficiency legislation. Car dealers, however, blame the public's disinterest for the Greenmobile's underwhelming entrance into the market. Almost no one pays any real attention to environmental ratings when buying a car, the dealers say. Not like, say, the kind of cup holders it has, or how the bike rack attaches or that all-important consumer issue: color. And those fuel inefficient SUVs remain hugely popular, regardless of the fact that they are extraordinarily polluting. According to GreenerCars.com, SUVs pollute about twice as much as, say, my Civic, which on average discharges 2 tons a year more carbon dioxide badness than the Insight. Although engines in general are becoming more efficient, smoother and better-performing, the trend toward larger SUVs and pickups has contributed to the average fuel economy dipping to its lowest point in more than 20 years, notes Consumer Reports' 2002 auto trends report. So that's the bad news, but there's hope. Frankenfans Existing green cars have their fans. According to a Department of Energy report, last year there were nearly 500,000 alternative-fuel vehicles on the roads in the United States
Re: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You?
Agreed My 14 year old Citroen BX turbodesel/GTI hybrid Gets 50 mpg (Imperial 4.55 ltr) and runs beautifilly with rapeseed oil @50% fuel extender Stewart from Wales UK where fuel is almost one dollar per litre. - Original Message - From: steve spence [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 3:30 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? I drove a BMW minicooper yesterday, and although it was cute, I would not call 33mpg on premium unleaded clean. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/ Human powered devices, equipment, and transport - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/2000/humanpower.htm [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Cc: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 9:23 AM Subject: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=12917 AlterNet -- So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? Allie Gottlieb, Metro Silicon Valley http://www.metroactive.com April 19, 2002 If you're like me, and you are, you want a good, cheap, fast, safe and cute car that can take you to work and back, and out for fun, on little or no gas. You also need room to cart around your laptop, your nonfat latte, a pal and your four-piece silver-sparkle Ludwig drum set, which in my case is named Natasha J. Sparky. Since we've got so much in common, it makes sense to share car-search secrets. I'll start. What I've learned about the latest electric, hybrid and just plain cuter- or cleaner-than-thou vehicles that you can buy or lease at this moment there are plenty of choices, combinations and features. Sorting them all out is confusing but not impossible. The ones accessible to me as of presstime were the BMW Mini Cooper, the Honda Insight, the Honda Civic Hybrid, the Honda Civic GX natural-gas vehicle, the Toyota Prius, the Toyota Rav4 EV, the Corbin Sparrow, the Ford Th!nk, the Ford Ranger EV and the DaimlerChrysler GEM. Idling Politics Here's another thing I've learned. Despite all the chatter about fuel efficiency from the Legislature lately, and the attempts by various cities to get their fleets on a greener track, this has been a slow-going revolution with plenty of setbacks. Witness last month's rise and fall of the Corporate Average Fuel Economy standards: Senator John Kerry's (D-Mass.) proposal to require new vehicles to average a respectable 36 mpg of gas by 2015 did a giant belly flop. SUVs get to be an estimated 25 percent more polluting than other cars. Gasoline has drivers over an oil barrel, and so, as they do in any time of war with oil-producing nations, gas prices are going up. Despite all this, a good clean car is still hard to find. It seems like we should have evolved more by now. For years, there's been hope that cars will become greener in the form of research on cleaner cars. The web is overflowing with information about alternative fuel vehicles from the U.S. Department of Energy and agencies like the Natural Resources Defense Council that push for fuel-efficiency legislation. Car dealers, however, blame the public's disinterest for the Greenmobile's underwhelming entrance into the market. Almost no one pays any real attention to environmental ratings when buying a car, the dealers say. Not like, say, the kind of cup holders it has, or how the bike rack attaches or that all-important consumer issue: color. And those fuel inefficient SUVs remain hugely popular, regardless of the fact that they are extraordinarily polluting. According to GreenerCars.com, SUVs pollute about twice as much as, say, my Civic, which on average discharges 2 tons a year more carbon dioxide badness than the Insight. Although engines in general are becoming more efficient, smoother and better-performing, the trend toward larger SUVs and pickups has contributed to the average fuel economy dipping to its lowest point in more than 20 years, notes Consumer Reports' 2002 auto trends report. So that's the bad news, but there's hope. Frankenfans Existing green cars have their fans. According to a Department of Energy report, last year there were nearly 500,000 alternative-fuel vehicles on the roads in the United States. Of those half-million cars, 10,400 were electric. Consumers dedicate websites to electric cars and half-gas, half-electric hybrids, or frankencars. One fan posted a diary all about his 1999 electric Sparrow on the Internet and has kept it up for three years. Another self-described electric-car enthusiast, Joseph Lado from Virginia (who doesn't actually drive an electric car, evidently is dissatisfied
Re: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You?
Today I test drove a new vw beetle, turbo diesel. Now this is one fine automobile. 44mpg isn't shabby either. saw diesel today for $1.23 / us gallon. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/ Human powered devices, equipment, and transport - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/2000/humanpower.htm [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: stewart hyde [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 6:32 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? Agreed My 14 year old Citroen BX turbodesel/GTI hybrid Gets 50 mpg (Imperial 4.55 ltr) and runs beautifilly with rapeseed oil @50% fuel extender Stewart from Wales UK where fuel is almost one dollar per litre. - Original Message - From: steve spence [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 3:30 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? I drove a BMW minicooper yesterday, and although it was cute, I would not call 33mpg on premium unleaded clean. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/ Human powered devices, equipment, and transport - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/2000/humanpower.htm [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Cc: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 9:23 AM Subject: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=12917 AlterNet -- So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? Allie Gottlieb, Metro Silicon Valley http://www.metroactive.com April 19, 2002 If you're like me, and you are, you want a good, cheap, fast, safe and cute car that can take you to work and back, and out for fun, on little or no gas. You also need room to cart around your laptop, your nonfat latte, a pal and your four-piece silver-sparkle Ludwig drum set, which in my case is named Natasha J. Sparky. Since we've got so much in common, it makes sense to share car-search secrets. I'll start. What I've learned about the latest electric, hybrid and just plain cuter- or cleaner-than-thou vehicles that you can buy or lease at this moment there are plenty of choices, combinations and features. Sorting them all out is confusing but not impossible. The ones accessible to me as of presstime were the BMW Mini Cooper, the Honda Insight, the Honda Civic Hybrid, the Honda Civic GX natural-gas vehicle, the Toyota Prius, the Toyota Rav4 EV, the Corbin Sparrow, the Ford Th!nk, the Ford Ranger EV and the DaimlerChrysler GEM. Idling Politics Here's another thing I've learned. Despite all the chatter about fuel efficiency from the Legislature lately, and the attempts by various cities to get their fleets on a greener track, this has been a slow-going revolution with plenty of setbacks. Witness last month's rise and fall of the Corporate Average Fuel Economy standards: Senator John Kerry's (D-Mass.) proposal to require new vehicles to average a respectable 36 mpg of gas by 2015 did a giant belly flop. SUVs get to be an estimated 25 percent more polluting than other cars. Gasoline has drivers over an oil barrel, and so, as they do in any time of war with oil-producing nations, gas prices are going up. Despite all this, a good clean car is still hard to find. It seems like we should have evolved more by now. For years, there's been hope that cars will become greener in the form of research on cleaner cars. The web is overflowing with information about alternative fuel vehicles from the U.S. Department of Energy and agencies like the Natural Resources Defense Council that push for fuel-efficiency legislation. Car dealers, however, blame the public's disinterest for the Greenmobile's underwhelming entrance into the market. Almost no one pays any real attention to environmental ratings when buying a car, the dealers say. Not like, say, the kind of cup holders it has, or how the bike rack attaches or that all-important consumer issue: color. And those fuel inefficient SUVs remain hugely popular, regardless of the fact that they are extraordinarily polluting. According to GreenerCars.com, SUVs pollute about twice as much as, say, my Civic, which on average discharges 2 tons a year more carbon dioxide badness than the Insight. Although engines in general are becoming more efficient, smoother and better-performing, the trend toward larger SUVs and pickups has contributed to the average fuel economy dipping to its lowest point in more than 20 years, notes
Re: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You?
Hey... I just drove a 1986 VW Golf, filled to the brim with biodiesel, hauling a trailer full of hay and about 400 pounds of boiler parts and got ~44mpg. I'll take utility and green over a chick car and green any dayI'm t old for chick. Just keep praying for acid drought, another Arab oil embargo and $3.50 a gallon at the pump. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: steve spence To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 7:22 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? Today I test drove a new vw beetle, turbo diesel. Now this is one fine automobile. 44mpg isn't shabby either. saw diesel today for $1.23 / us gallon. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/ Human powered devices, equipment, and transport - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/2000/humanpower.htm [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: stewart hyde [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 6:32 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? Agreed My 14 year old Citroen BX turbodesel/GTI hybrid Gets 50 mpg (Imperial 4.55 ltr) and runs beautifilly with rapeseed oil @50% fuel extender Stewart from Wales UK where fuel is almost one dollar per litre. - Original Message - From: steve spence [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 3:30 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? I drove a BMW minicooper yesterday, and although it was cute, I would not call 33mpg on premium unleaded clean. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/ Human powered devices, equipment, and transport - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/2000/humanpower.htm [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Cc: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 9:23 AM Subject: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=12917 AlterNet -- So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? Allie Gottlieb, Metro Silicon Valley http://www.metroactive.com April 19, 2002 If you're like me, and you are, you want a good, cheap, fast, safe and cute car that can take you to work and back, and out for fun, on little or no gas. You also need room to cart around your laptop, your nonfat latte, a pal and your four-piece silver-sparkle Ludwig drum set, which in my case is named Natasha J. Sparky. Since we've got so much in common, it makes sense to share car-search secrets. I'll start. What I've learned about the latest electric, hybrid and just plain cuter- or cleaner-than-thou vehicles that you can buy or lease at this moment there are plenty of choices, combinations and features. Sorting them all out is confusing but not impossible. The ones accessible to me as of presstime were the BMW Mini Cooper, the Honda Insight, the Honda Civic Hybrid, the Honda Civic GX natural-gas vehicle, the Toyota Prius, the Toyota Rav4 EV, the Corbin Sparrow, the Ford Th!nk, the Ford Ranger EV and the DaimlerChrysler GEM. Idling Politics Here's another thing I've learned. Despite all the chatter about fuel efficiency from the Legislature lately, and the attempts by various cities to get their fleets on a greener track, this has been a slow-going revolution with plenty of setbacks. Witness last month's rise and fall of the Corporate Average Fuel Economy standards: Senator John Kerry's (D-Mass.) proposal to require new vehicles to average a respectable 36 mpg of gas by 2015 did a giant belly flop. SUVs get to be an estimated 25 percent more polluting than other cars. Gasoline has drivers over an oil barrel, and so, as they do in any time of war with oil-producing nations, gas prices are going up. Despite all this, a good clean car is still hard to find. It seems like we should have evolved more by now. For years, there's been hope that cars will become greener in the form of research on cleaner cars. The web is overflowing with information about alternative fuel vehicles from the U.S. Department of Energy and agencies like the Natural Resources Defense Council that push for fuel-efficiency legislation. Car dealers, however, blame the public's disinterest for the Greenmobile's underwhelming entrance into the market. Almost no one pays
RE: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You?
i did not know that a small car could pull a trailer and not overheat. -Original Message- From: Appal Energy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2002 4:02 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? Hey... I just drove a 1986 VW Golf, filled to the brim with biodiesel, hauling a trailer full of hay and about 400 pounds of boiler parts and got ~44mpg. I'll take utility and green over a chick car and green any dayI'm t old for chick. Just keep praying for acid drought, another Arab oil embargo and $3.50 a gallon at the pump. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: steve spence To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 7:22 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? Today I test drove a new vw beetle, turbo diesel. Now this is one fine automobile. 44mpg isn't shabby either. saw diesel today for $1.23 / us gallon. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/ http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/ Human powered devices, equipment, and transport - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/2000/humanpower.htm http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/2000/humanpower.htm [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: stewart hyde [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 6:32 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? Agreed My 14 year old Citroen BX turbodesel/GTI hybrid Gets 50 mpg (Imperial 4.55 ltr) and runs beautifilly with rapeseed oil @50% fuel extender Stewart from Wales UK where fuel is almost one dollar per litre. - Original Message - From: steve spence [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 3:30 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? I drove a BMW minicooper yesterday, and although it was cute, I would not call 33mpg on premium unleaded clean. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/ http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/ Human powered devices, equipment, and transport - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/2000/humanpower.htm http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/2000/humanpower.htm [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Cc: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 9:23 AM Subject: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=12917 http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=12917 AlterNet -- So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? Allie Gottlieb, Metro Silicon Valley http://www.metroactive.com http://www.metroactive.com April 19, 2002 If you're like me, and you are, you want a good, cheap, fast, safe and cute car that can take you to work and back, and out for fun, on little or no gas. You also need room to cart around your laptop, your nonfat latte, a pal and your four-piece silver-sparkle Ludwig drum set, which in my case is named Natasha J. Sparky. Since we've got so much in common, it makes sense to share car-search secrets. I'll start. What I've learned about the latest electric, hybrid and just plain cuter- or cleaner-than-thou vehicles that you can buy or lease at this moment there are plenty of choices, combinations and features. Sorting them all out is confusing but not impossible. The ones accessible to me as of presstime were the BMW Mini Cooper, the Honda Insight, the Honda Civic Hybrid, the Honda Civic GX natural-gas vehicle, the Toyota Prius, the Toyota Rav4 EV, the Corbin Sparrow, the Ford Th!nk, the Ford Ranger EV and the DaimlerChrysler GEM. Idling Politics Here's another thing I've learned. Despite all the chatter about fuel efficiency from the Legislature lately, and the attempts by various cities to get their fleets on a greener track, this has been a slow-going revolution with plenty of setbacks. Witness last month's rise and fall of the Corporate Average Fuel Economy standards: Senator John Kerry's (D-Mass.) proposal to require new vehicles to average a respectable 36 mpg of gas by 2015 did a giant belly flop. SUVs get to be an estimated 25 percent more polluting than other cars. Gasoline has drivers over an oil barrel, and so, as they do in any time of war with oil-producing nations, gas prices are going up
Re: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You?
Seriously, it's not a problem. And I haven't flushed the radiator for 2 years. Single axle, 8' x 10' trailer, 900#s tare weight, often loaded with 1/2 - 3/4 ton, hauling as much as 300 miles round trip, no overheat problem. Bit of a load on the brakes more than anything else. And I'm sure a county bounty could be a real rhoid if he or she wanted. Too bad these days that you have to wine and dine the VW sales rep for three weeks just to get them to consider placing a factory order for a diesel engine in a new Golf. Both Jettas and Golf are still pretty much the same chassis, or so I'm led to believe. I think I'll just pay for a Maco paint job to keep the salt and rust in check, rebuild the steering every 16 years and worry about the engine when she goes. As she's still pretty strong, that could be a while. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: AOAR Welch B. To: 'biofuel@yahoogroups.com' Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 8:23 PM Subject: RE: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? i did not know that a small car could pull a trailer and not overheat. -Original Message- From: Appal Energy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2002 4:02 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? Hey... I just drove a 1986 VW Golf, filled to the brim with biodiesel, hauling a trailer full of hay and about 400 pounds of boiler parts and got ~44mpg. I'll take utility and green over a chick car and green any dayI'm t old for chick. Just keep praying for acid drought, another Arab oil embargo and $3.50 a gallon at the pump. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: steve spence To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 7:22 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? Today I test drove a new vw beetle, turbo diesel. Now this is one fine automobile. 44mpg isn't shabby either. saw diesel today for $1.23 / us gallon. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/ http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/ Human powered devices, equipment, and transport - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/2000/humanpower.htm http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/2000/humanpower.htm [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: stewart hyde [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 6:32 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? Agreed My 14 year old Citroen BX turbodesel/GTI hybrid Gets 50 mpg (Imperial 4.55 ltr) and runs beautifilly with rapeseed oil @50% fuel extender Stewart from Wales UK where fuel is almost one dollar per litre. - Original Message - From: steve spence [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 3:30 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? I drove a BMW minicooper yesterday, and although it was cute, I would not call 33mpg on premium unleaded clean. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/ http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/ Human powered devices, equipment, and transport - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/2000/humanpower.htm http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/2000/humanpower.htm [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Cc: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 9:23 AM Subject: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=12917 http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=12917 AlterNet -- So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? Allie Gottlieb, Metro Silicon Valley http://www.metroactive.com http://www.metroactive.com April 19, 2002 If you're like me, and you are, you want a good, cheap, fast, safe and cute car that can take you to work and back, and out for fun, on little or no gas. You also need room to cart around your laptop, your nonfat latte, a pal and your four-piece silver-sparkle Ludwig drum set, which in my case is named Natasha J. Sparky. Since we've got so much in common, it makes sense to share car-search secrets. I'll start. What I've learned about the latest electric, hybrid and just plain cuter- or cleaner-than-thou vehicles that you
Re: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You?
Chek that... a 6' x 10' trailer. Must have been romanticising as if it were a 48 foot reefer being hauled by a Cummings. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Appal Energy To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 8:31 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? Seriously, it's not a problem. And I haven't flushed the radiator for 2 years. Single axle, 8' x 10' trailer, 900#s tare weight, often loaded with 1/2 - 3/4 ton, hauling as much as 300 miles round trip, no overheat problem. Bit of a load on the brakes more than anything else. And I'm sure a county bounty could be a real rhoid if he or she wanted. Too bad these days that you have to wine and dine the VW sales rep for three weeks just to get them to consider placing a factory order for a diesel engine in a new Golf. Both Jettas and Golf are still pretty much the same chassis, or so I'm led to believe. I think I'll just pay for a Maco paint job to keep the salt and rust in check, rebuild the steering every 16 years and worry about the engine when she goes. As she's still pretty strong, that could be a while. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: AOAR Welch B. To: 'biofuel@yahoogroups.com' Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 8:23 PM Subject: RE: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? i did not know that a small car could pull a trailer and not overheat. -Original Message- From: Appal Energy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2002 4:02 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? Hey... I just drove a 1986 VW Golf, filled to the brim with biodiesel, hauling a trailer full of hay and about 400 pounds of boiler parts and got ~44mpg. I'll take utility and green over a chick car and green any dayI'm t old for chick. Just keep praying for acid drought, another Arab oil embargo and $3.50 a gallon at the pump. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: steve spence To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 7:22 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? Today I test drove a new vw beetle, turbo diesel. Now this is one fine automobile. 44mpg isn't shabby either. saw diesel today for $1.23 / us gallon. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/ http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/ Human powered devices, equipment, and transport - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/2000/humanpower.htm http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/2000/humanpower.htm [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: stewart hyde [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 6:32 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? Agreed My 14 year old Citroen BX turbodesel/GTI hybrid Gets 50 mpg (Imperial 4.55 ltr) and runs beautifilly with rapeseed oil @50% fuel extender Stewart from Wales UK where fuel is almost one dollar per litre. - Original Message - From: steve spence [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 3:30 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? I drove a BMW minicooper yesterday, and although it was cute, I would not call 33mpg on premium unleaded clean. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/ http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/ Human powered devices, equipment, and transport - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/2000/humanpower.htm http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/2000/humanpower.htm [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Cc: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 9:23 AM Subject: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=12917 http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=12917 AlterNet -- So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? Allie Gottlieb, Metro Silicon Valley http://www.metroactive.com http://www.metroactive.com April 19, 2002 If you're like me, and you are, you want a good, cheap, fast
Re: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You?
Steve Spence wrote: I drove a BMW minicooper yesterday, and although it was cute, I would not call 33mpg on premium unleaded clean. Hi Steve You want to take it out on a really tight and twisty mountain road that you know really well. I did! ;-) You know then! Total fun. (Even more fun was doing those roads with a '56 V8 Fairlane and pretending it was a Mini.) snip These babies have the BMW Stability control with anti yaw, which includes mundane things like traction control and anti lock brakes. snip now we are up to 1.6l, 163 hp (at 6000 rpm) supercharged, intercooled bliss. the 6 speed getrag is a blessing to shift. at $25k fully loaded it's more fun than a beemer that costs $40k. Wow, I didn't know those specs! Yes, that WOULD be fun. 33mpg's not too bad, for that. Beemer's aren't much fun. The Mini and the Mini Cooper were made by an old company called Austin that had recently merged with another old company called Morris, and finally became BMC (British Motor Corporation), and then died. The story of British industry. now it's BMW. It no longer leaks oil ;-) You got it! And maybe even the electrics work in the rain. What's really interesting about the Mini is the design. It was a real trend-setter, the first transverse-engine front-wheel drive, and the basic design has hardly changed in more than 40 years, just steadily improved. The only comparison I can think of is the VW Beetle. Beetle owners and Mini owners hated each other. The new beetle turbo (drove that one last night) is ok, but doesn't have the fun factor the mini has. and the clutch sucks Really? That's surprising. So why change models every year? Could it be perhaps just marketing and a packaging job? I think that's a strong point in the Mini Cooper's favour. In deciding which car's green and which isn't the eco-costs of manufacturing ought to be considered, and this kind of design continuity surely lowers those costs. So, though the fuel economy isn't that great (it never was - was surprised to see it rating green in that story), it might be cleaner than it looks at first. Going to try out the Beetle diesel automatic today, that can be green (or yellow (grease)). The Japanese love Mini Coopers, by the way. I see why, it's adorable. Yes. But they make some great small cars in Japan. Not for export though, I'd never seen them before I came here. Are you planning on buying one of these motors? Best Keith Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/ Human powered devices, equipment, and transport - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/2000/humanpower.htm [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/k6cvND/n97DAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You?
Hey... I just drove a 1986 VW Golf, filled to the brim with biodiesel, hauling a trailer full of hay and about 400 pounds of boiler parts and got ~44mpg. I'll take utility and green over a chick car and green any dayI'm t old for chick. Hey, Todd... You're more of an old fart than I am. I could talk myself into really needing the sheer utility of a Pinzgauer 6x6, a Toyota diesel pickup, a Mini Cooper such as Steve describes, a Guzzi Le Mans for good measure, and, um, a Tiger Moth. Not too sure about the rollerskates these days though. What? Money? Oh. Damn. Forgot about that. Well, maybe the rollerskates... Just keep praying for acid drought, another Arab oil embargo and $3.50 a gallon at the pump. You could get your wish. I hope it doesn't mean we all get a nuke up our camel's ass too though. Keith Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: steve spence To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 7:22 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? Today I test drove a new vw beetle, turbo diesel. Now this is one fine automobile. 44mpg isn't shabby either. saw diesel today for $1.23 / us gallon. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/ Human powered devices, equipment, and transport - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/2000/humanpower.htm [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: stewart hyde [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 6:32 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? Agreed My 14 year old Citroen BX turbodesel/GTI hybrid Gets 50 mpg (Imperial 4.55 ltr) and runs beautifilly with rapeseed oil @50% fuel extender Stewart from Wales UK where fuel is almost one dollar per litre. - Original Message - From: steve spence [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 3:30 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? I drove a BMW minicooper yesterday, and although it was cute, I would not call 33mpg on premium unleaded clean. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/ Human powered devices, equipment, and transport - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/2000/humanpower.htm [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Cc: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 9:23 AM Subject: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=12917 AlterNet -- So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? Allie Gottlieb, Metro Silicon Valley http://www.metroactive.com April 19, 2002 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/k6cvND/n97DAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You?
- Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 9:09 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? Steve Spence wrote: I drove a BMW minicooper yesterday, and although it was cute, I would not call 33mpg on premium unleaded clean. Hi Steve You want to take it out on a really tight and twisty mountain road that you know really well. I did! ;-) You know then! Total fun. (Even more fun was doing those roads with a '56 V8 Fairlane and pretending it was a Mini.) A real blast! snip These babies have the BMW Stability control with anti yaw, which includes mundane things like traction control and anti lock brakes. snip now we are up to 1.6l, 163 hp (at 6000 rpm) supercharged, intercooled bliss. the 6 speed getrag is a blessing to shift. at $25k fully loaded it's more fun than a beemer that costs $40k. Wow, I didn't know those specs! Yes, that WOULD be fun. 33mpg's not too bad, for that. Beemer's aren't much fun. The Mini and the Mini Cooper were made by an old company called Austin that had recently merged with another old company called Morris, and finally became BMC (British Motor Corporation), and then died. The story of British industry. now it's BMW. It no longer leaks oil ;-) You got it! And maybe even the electrics work in the rain. What's really interesting about the Mini is the design. It was a real trend-setter, the first transverse-engine front-wheel drive, and the basic design has hardly changed in more than 40 years, just steadily improved. The only comparison I can think of is the VW Beetle. Beetle owners and Mini owners hated each other. The new beetle turbo (drove that one last night) is ok, but doesn't have the fun factor the mini has. and the clutch sucks Really? That's surprising. a lot of pedal movement, high release. really works the leg. the diesel auto I tried today was slower, but still no slouch. got beat by a 4.3l blazer though. So why change models every year? Could it be perhaps just marketing and a packaging job? I think that's a strong point in the Mini Cooper's favour. In deciding which car's green and which isn't the eco-costs of manufacturing ought to be considered, and this kind of design continuity surely lowers those costs. So, though the fuel economy isn't that great (it never was - was surprised to see it rating green in that story), it might be cleaner than it looks at first. Going to try out the Beetle diesel automatic today, that can be green (or yellow (grease)). The Japanese love Mini Coopers, by the way. I see why, it's adorable. Yes. But they make some great small cars in Japan. Not for export though, I'd never seen them before I came here. Are you planning on buying one of these motors? If it came in a diesel, I'd jump all over it. sigh maybe an ethanol conversion.. Best Keith Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/ Human powered devices, equipment, and transport - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/2000/humanpower.htm [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/k6cvND/n97DAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You?
Man...You're too much fun ROFL ROFLROFL ROFFL... Todd - Original Message - From: Keith Addison To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 9:09 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? [snip...] You could get your wish. I hope it doesn't mean we all get a nuke up our camel's ass too though. Keith Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: steve spence To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 7:22 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? Today I test drove a new vw beetle, turbo diesel. Now this is one fine automobile. 44mpg isn't shabby either. saw diesel today for $1.23 / us gallon. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/ Human powered devices, equipment, and transport - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/2000/humanpower.htm [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: stewart hyde [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 6:32 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? Agreed My 14 year old Citroen BX turbodesel/GTI hybrid Gets 50 mpg (Imperial 4.55 ltr) and runs beautifilly with rapeseed oil @50% fuel extender Stewart from Wales UK where fuel is almost one dollar per litre. - Original Message - From: steve spence [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 3:30 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? I drove a BMW minicooper yesterday, and although it was cute, I would not call 33mpg on premium unleaded clean. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/ Human powered devices, equipment, and transport - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/2000/humanpower.htm [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Cc: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 9:23 AM Subject: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=12917 AlterNet -- So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? Allie Gottlieb, Metro Silicon Valley http://www.metroactive.com April 19, 2002 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You?
I drove a BMW minicooper yesterday, and although it was cute, I would not call 33mpg on premium unleaded clean. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/ Human powered devices, equipment, and transport - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/2000/humanpower.htm [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Cc: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 9:23 AM Subject: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=12917 AlterNet -- So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? Allie Gottlieb, Metro Silicon Valley http://www.metroactive.com April 19, 2002 If you're like me, and you are, you want a good, cheap, fast, safe and cute car that can take you to work and back, and out for fun, on little or no gas. You also need room to cart around your laptop, your nonfat latte, a pal and your four-piece silver-sparkle Ludwig drum set, which in my case is named Natasha J. Sparky. Since we've got so much in common, it makes sense to share car-search secrets. I'll start. What I've learned about the latest electric, hybrid and just plain cuter- or cleaner-than-thou vehicles that you can buy or lease at this moment there are plenty of choices, combinations and features. Sorting them all out is confusing but not impossible. The ones accessible to me as of presstime were the BMW Mini Cooper, the Honda Insight, the Honda Civic Hybrid, the Honda Civic GX natural-gas vehicle, the Toyota Prius, the Toyota Rav4 EV, the Corbin Sparrow, the Ford Th!nk, the Ford Ranger EV and the DaimlerChrysler GEM. Idling Politics Here's another thing I've learned. Despite all the chatter about fuel efficiency from the Legislature lately, and the attempts by various cities to get their fleets on a greener track, this has been a slow-going revolution with plenty of setbacks. Witness last month's rise and fall of the Corporate Average Fuel Economy standards: Senator John Kerry's (D-Mass.) proposal to require new vehicles to average a respectable 36 mpg of gas by 2015 did a giant belly flop. SUVs get to be an estimated 25 percent more polluting than other cars. Gasoline has drivers over an oil barrel, and so, as they do in any time of war with oil-producing nations, gas prices are going up. Despite all this, a good clean car is still hard to find. It seems like we should have evolved more by now. For years, there's been hope that cars will become greener in the form of research on cleaner cars. The web is overflowing with information about alternative fuel vehicles from the U.S. Department of Energy and agencies like the Natural Resources Defense Council that push for fuel-efficiency legislation. Car dealers, however, blame the public's disinterest for the Greenmobile's underwhelming entrance into the market. Almost no one pays any real attention to environmental ratings when buying a car, the dealers say. Not like, say, the kind of cup holders it has, or how the bike rack attaches or that all-important consumer issue: color. And those fuel inefficient SUVs remain hugely popular, regardless of the fact that they are extraordinarily polluting. According to GreenerCars.com, SUVs pollute about twice as much as, say, my Civic, which on average discharges 2 tons a year more carbon dioxide badness than the Insight. Although engines in general are becoming more efficient, smoother and better-performing, the trend toward larger SUVs and pickups has contributed to the average fuel economy dipping to its lowest point in more than 20 years, notes Consumer Reports' 2002 auto trends report. So that's the bad news, but there's hope. Frankenfans Existing green cars have their fans. According to a Department of Energy report, last year there were nearly 500,000 alternative-fuel vehicles on the roads in the United States. Of those half-million cars, 10,400 were electric. Consumers dedicate websites to electric cars and half-gas, half-electric hybrids, or frankencars. One fan posted a diary all about his 1999 electric Sparrow on the Internet and has kept it up for three years. Another self-described electric-car enthusiast, Joseph Lado from Virginia (who doesn't actually drive an electric car, evidently is dissatisfied with the way they are charged and is trying to help start a company that sells better ones) summarizes alternatives to Old Man Combustion. We can manufacture a practical electric car NOW, Lado declares in a column he sent out for publication. Lado touts regenerative braking, used currently by the hybrids to recharge their batteries. He lauds solar power as another recharging source. Lado seems an appropriate representation of the electric-car industry. He sounds half-reasonable, half-kooky. Another
Re: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You?
My real car gets 30 mpg. I would think a minicooper would get 50 at least. Maybe on diesel? --- steve spence [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I drove a BMW minicooper yesterday, and although it was cute, I would not call 33mpg on premium unleaded clean. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/ Human powered devices, equipment, and transport - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/2000/humanpower.htm [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Cc: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 9:23 AM Subject: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=12917 AlterNet -- So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? Allie Gottlieb, Metro Silicon Valley http://www.metroactive.com April 19, 2002 If you're like me, and you are, you want a good, cheap, fast, safe and cute car that can take you to work and back, and out for fun, on little or no gas. You also need room to cart around your laptop, your nonfat latte, a pal and your four-piece silver-sparkle Ludwig drum set, which in my case is named Natasha J. Sparky. Since we've got so much in common, it makes sense to share car-search secrets. I'll start. What I've learned about the latest electric, hybrid and just plain cuter- or cleaner-than-thou vehicles that you can buy or lease at this moment there are plenty of choices, combinations and features. Sorting them all out is confusing but not impossible. The ones accessible to me as of presstime were the BMW Mini Cooper, the Honda Insight, the Honda Civic Hybrid, the Honda Civic GX natural-gas vehicle, the Toyota Prius, the Toyota Rav4 EV, the Corbin Sparrow, the Ford Th!nk, the Ford Ranger EV and the DaimlerChrysler GEM. Idling Politics Here's another thing I've learned. Despite all the chatter about fuel efficiency from the Legislature lately, and the attempts by various cities to get their fleets on a greener track, this has been a slow-going revolution with plenty of setbacks. Witness last month's rise and fall of the Corporate Average Fuel Economy standards: Senator John Kerry's (D-Mass.) proposal to require new vehicles to average a respectable 36 mpg of gas by 2015 did a giant belly flop. SUVs get to be an estimated 25 percent more polluting than other cars. Gasoline has drivers over an oil barrel, and so, as they do in any time of war with oil-producing nations, gas prices are going up. Despite all this, a good clean car is still hard to find. It seems like we should have evolved more by now. For years, there's been hope that cars will become greener in the form of research on cleaner cars. The web is overflowing with information about alternative fuel vehicles from the U.S. Department of Energy and agencies like the Natural Resources Defense Council that push for fuel-efficiency legislation. Car dealers, however, blame the public's disinterest for the Greenmobile's underwhelming entrance into the market. Almost no one pays any real attention to environmental ratings when buying a car, the dealers say. Not like, say, the kind of cup holders it has, or how the bike rack attaches or that all-important consumer issue: color. And those fuel inefficient SUVs remain hugely popular, regardless of the fact that they are extraordinarily polluting. According to GreenerCars.com, SUVs pollute about twice as much as, say, my Civic, which on average discharges 2 tons a year more carbon dioxide badness than the Insight. Although engines in general are becoming more efficient, smoother and better-performing, the trend toward larger SUVs and pickups has contributed to the average fuel economy dipping to its lowest point in more than 20 years, notes Consumer Reports' 2002 auto trends report. So that's the bad news, but there's hope. Frankenfans Existing green cars have their fans. According to a Department of Energy report, last year there were nearly 500,000 alternative-fuel vehicles on the roads in the United States. Of those half-million cars, 10,400 were electric. Consumers dedicate websites to electric cars and half-gas, half-electric hybrids, or frankencars. One fan posted a diary all about his 1999 electric Sparrow on the Internet and has kept it up for three years. Another self-described electric-car enthusiast, Joseph Lado from Virginia (who doesn't actually drive an electric car, evidently is dissatisfied with the way they are charged and is trying to help start a company that sells better ones) summarizes alternatives to Old Man Combustion. We can manufacture a practical electric car NOW, Lado declares in a column he sent out for publication. Lado touts regenerative
Re: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You?
VW Jetti or Passat TDI is the way to go. Portfolio Resume: http://www.jesseparris.com/Portfolio_Jesse_Parris/ Jesse Parris | studio53 | graphics / web design | stamford, ct | 203.324.4371 - Original Message - From: Martin Klingensmith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, April 26, 2002 10:50 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? My real car gets 30 mpg. I would think a minicooper would get 50 at least. Maybe on diesel? --- steve spence [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I drove a BMW minicooper yesterday, and although it was cute, I would not call 33mpg on premium unleaded clean. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/ Human powered devices, equipment, and transport - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/2000/humanpower.htm [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Cc: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 9:23 AM Subject: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=12917 AlterNet -- So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? Allie Gottlieb, Metro Silicon Valley http://www.metroactive.com April 19, 2002 If you're like me, and you are, you want a good, cheap, fast, safe and cute car that can take you to work and back, and out for fun, on little or no gas. You also need room to cart around your laptop, your nonfat latte, a pal and your four-piece silver-sparkle Ludwig drum set, which in my case is named Natasha J. Sparky. Since we've got so much in common, it makes sense to share car-search secrets. I'll start. What I've learned about the latest electric, hybrid and just plain cuter- or cleaner-than-thou vehicles that you can buy or lease at this moment there are plenty of choices, combinations and features. Sorting them all out is confusing but not impossible. The ones accessible to me as of presstime were the BMW Mini Cooper, the Honda Insight, the Honda Civic Hybrid, the Honda Civic GX natural-gas vehicle, the Toyota Prius, the Toyota Rav4 EV, the Corbin Sparrow, the Ford Th!nk, the Ford Ranger EV and the DaimlerChrysler GEM. Idling Politics Here's another thing I've learned. Despite all the chatter about fuel efficiency from the Legislature lately, and the attempts by various cities to get their fleets on a greener track, this has been a slow-going revolution with plenty of setbacks. Witness last month's rise and fall of the Corporate Average Fuel Economy standards: Senator John Kerry's (D-Mass.) proposal to require new vehicles to average a respectable 36 mpg of gas by 2015 did a giant belly flop. SUVs get to be an estimated 25 percent more polluting than other cars. Gasoline has drivers over an oil barrel, and so, as they do in any time of war with oil-producing nations, gas prices are going up. Despite all this, a good clean car is still hard to find. It seems like we should have evolved more by now. For years, there's been hope that cars will become greener in the form of research on cleaner cars. The web is overflowing with information about alternative fuel vehicles from the U.S. Department of Energy and agencies like the Natural Resources Defense Council that push for fuel-efficiency legislation. Car dealers, however, blame the public's disinterest for the Greenmobile's underwhelming entrance into the market. Almost no one pays any real attention to environmental ratings when buying a car, the dealers say. Not like, say, the kind of cup holders it has, or how the bike rack attaches or that all-important consumer issue: color. And those fuel inefficient SUVs remain hugely popular, regardless of the fact that they are extraordinarily polluting. According to GreenerCars.com, SUVs pollute about twice as much as, say, my Civic, which on average discharges 2 tons a year more carbon dioxide badness than the Insight. Although engines in general are becoming more efficient, smoother and better-performing, the trend toward larger SUVs and pickups has contributed to the average fuel economy dipping to its lowest point in more than 20 years, notes Consumer Reports' 2002 auto trends report. So that's the bad news, but there's hope. Frankenfans Existing green cars have their fans. According to a Department of Energy report, last year there were nearly 500,000 alternative-fuel vehicles on the roads in the United States. Of those half-million cars, 10,400 were electric. Consumers dedicate websites to electric cars and half-gas, half-electric hybrids, or frankencars. One fan posted a diary all about his
Re: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You?
Or just keep driving that old Rabbit or Golf. How is it you could find a 48mpg diesel passenger vehicle in 1978, but their darned near impossible to find now? And what happend to the little 52 mpg gasoline Geos? Now they call a 38mpg vehicle green? Go figure. Todd - Original Message - From: studio53 To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, April 26, 2002 10:53 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? VW Jetti or Passat TDI is the way to go. Portfolio Resume: http://www.jesseparris.com/Portfolio_Jesse_Parris/ Jesse Parris | studio53 | graphics / web design | stamford, ct | 203.324.4371 - Original Message - From: Martin Klingensmith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, April 26, 2002 10:50 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? My real car gets 30 mpg. I would think a minicooper would get 50 at least. Maybe on diesel? --- steve spence [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I drove a BMW minicooper yesterday, and although it was cute, I would not call 33mpg on premium unleaded clean. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/ Human powered devices, equipment, and transport - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/2000/humanpower.htm [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Cc: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 9:23 AM Subject: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=12917 AlterNet -- So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? Allie Gottlieb, Metro Silicon Valley http://www.metroactive.com April 19, 2002 If you're like me, and you are, you want a good, cheap, fast, safe and cute car that can take you to work and back, and out for fun, on little or no gas. You also need room to cart around your laptop, your nonfat latte, a pal and your four-piece silver-sparkle Ludwig drum set, which in my case is named Natasha J. Sparky. Since we've got so much in common, it makes sense to share car-search secrets. I'll start. What I've learned about the latest electric, hybrid and just plain cuter- or cleaner-than-thou vehicles that you can buy or lease at this moment there are plenty of choices, combinations and features. Sorting them all out is confusing but not impossible. The ones accessible to me as of presstime were the BMW Mini Cooper, the Honda Insight, the Honda Civic Hybrid, the Honda Civic GX natural-gas vehicle, the Toyota Prius, the Toyota Rav4 EV, the Corbin Sparrow, the Ford Th!nk, the Ford Ranger EV and the DaimlerChrysler GEM. Idling Politics Here's another thing I've learned. Despite all the chatter about fuel efficiency from the Legislature lately, and the attempts by various cities to get their fleets on a greener track, this has been a slow-going revolution with plenty of setbacks. Witness last month's rise and fall of the Corporate Average Fuel Economy standards: Senator John Kerry's (D-Mass.) proposal to require new vehicles to average a respectable 36 mpg of gas by 2015 did a giant belly flop. SUVs get to be an estimated 25 percent more polluting than other cars. Gasoline has drivers over an oil barrel, and so, as they do in any time of war with oil-producing nations, gas prices are going up. Despite all this, a good clean car is still hard to find. It seems like we should have evolved more by now. For years, there's been hope that cars will become greener in the form of research on cleaner cars. The web is overflowing with information about alternative fuel vehicles from the U.S. Department of Energy and agencies like the Natural Resources Defense Council that push for fuel-efficiency legislation. Car dealers, however, blame the public's disinterest for the Greenmobile's underwhelming entrance into the market. Almost no one pays any real attention to environmental ratings when buying a car, the dealers say. Not like, say, the kind of cup holders it has, or how the bike rack attaches or that all-important consumer issue: color. And those fuel inefficient SUVs remain hugely popular, regardless of the fact that they are extraordinarily polluting. According to GreenerCars.com, SUVs pollute about twice as much as, say, my Civic, which on average discharges 2 tons a year more carbon dioxide badness than the Insight. Although engines in general are becoming more efficient, smoother and better-performing, the trend toward larger SUVs and pickups has contributed to the average fuel economy dipping to its lowest point in more than 20 years, notes Consumer Reports' 2002 auto trends report
