[SWFObject] Re: ExpressInstall issue...
It would be easy to carve out older versions. However the penetration
numbers show that basically 99.99% are on 9+. So I didn't bother.
IMHO anytime software can help prevent user confusion, it should.
Alan
On Feb 21, 12:35 am, Philip Hutchison platelu...@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Alan
I applaud your efforts and understand your arguments. However, your code
fix is aimed at preventing any Flash Player instance below 10.0.42 from
invoking ExpressInstall. Earlier versions of Flash Player were certainly
capable of running ExpressInstall (it has been around for years), and the
point of ExpressInstall is to get older versions up to date; if SWFObject
flat-out prevents these older versions of Flash Player from invoking
ExpressInstall, as recommended by your fix, there's really not much point
in using ExpressInstall.
ExpressInstall *does* work for many people, but -- as you've discovered --
there is a lot of bugginess in the process. As you've probably seen, we
have a number of open tickets on the SWFObject 2.2 issues list regarding
buggy ExpressInstall behavior.
I'm not ready to make any proclamations about what we should or shouldn't
do, but all I was saying in my previous post is that there isn't much we
*can* do since Adobe owns the process. Altering SWFObject to disallow
ExpressInstall functionality for any version of FP prior to 10.0.42 is not
advisable.
Thanks for the testing data, we will certainly do additional testing when
we can find some time.
- philip
On Sun, Feb 19, 2012 at 8:16 AM, Alan Pinstein apinst...@mac.com wrote:
While I agree that this isn't SWFObject's fault, that doesn't mean
swfobject can't do anything about it.
I just patched the source on the swfobject.js that we use to fail over
to the alternative content if the person is on a setup that won't
properly expressInstall. Our alternative content includes a install
flash button so that they can successfully upgrade if they want.
I don't think doing nothing is the best option because the
expressinstall is an infinite loop of frustration.
function canExpressInstall() {
if (ua.win)
{
if (ua.pv[0] == 9) return false;
if (ua.pv[0] == 10 ua.pv[1] == 0 ua.pv[2] 42)
return false;
}
return !isExpressInstallActive hasPlayerVersion(6.0.65)
(ua.win || ua.mac) !(ua.wk ua.wk 312);
}
I think that it is appropriate for swfobject to gracefully handle this
situation for its users.
There are other issues, like expressinstall on Mac OS 10.7 doesn't
work, because it gets a security sandbox violation. So that situation
should probably be carved out as well, however at the moment it wasn't
an issue for us since almost no one on mac is below FP 10.2.
Anyway, thanks to Aran's help I have isolated the issue to bugs in
Adobe's updater (rather than swfobject directly). I thought it would
be appreciated that I share back with the community the results of
some thorough testing.
If you think it'd be useful I can pull request this stuff on the 2.3
branch on GitHub.
Alan
On Feb 18, 4:37 pm, Philip Hutchison platelu...@gmail.com wrote:
Bottom line is: Flash Player's Express Install functionality is not
completely reliable, and there's really not much SWFObject can do about
it.
The Express Install experience -- when it works -- varies from browser to
browser. Express Install is a great idea, but has always suffered from a
flawed implementation.
Since SWFObject merely kickstarts the process and doesn't own it, there's
not much we can do about it.
- philip
On Fri, Feb 17, 2012 at 9:32 AM, Alan Pinstein apinst...@mac.com
wrote:
I just tested ExpressInstall on a bunch of Flash versions running in
IE and FF on Win XP SP2, and here are the results:
WIN Flash Player 10,1,82,76
WIN Flash Player 10,1,53,64
WIN Flash Player 10,0,45,2
WIN Flash Player 10,0,42,34
FAIL Flash Player 10,0,32,18
DID NOT TEST Flash Player 10,0,22,87
NA Flash Player 10,0,15,3 LINUX ONLY
FAIL Flash Player 10,0,12,36
FAIL Flash Player 9r280
So, basically ExpressInstall FAILS until 10,0,42,34.
I wonder if we should repeat this test on XP3, Mac, Vista, etc, and if
it's true, force SWFobject to fail the ExpressInstall on these
versions.
Thoughts?
Alan
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Re: [SWFObject] Re: ExpressInstall issue...
Hi Alan
I applaud your efforts and understand your arguments. However, your code
fix is aimed at preventing any Flash Player instance below 10.0.42 from
invoking ExpressInstall. Earlier versions of Flash Player were certainly
capable of running ExpressInstall (it has been around for years), and the
point of ExpressInstall is to get older versions up to date; if SWFObject
flat-out prevents these older versions of Flash Player from invoking
ExpressInstall, as recommended by your fix, there's really not much point
in using ExpressInstall.
ExpressInstall *does* work for many people, but -- as you've discovered --
there is a lot of bugginess in the process. As you've probably seen, we
have a number of open tickets on the SWFObject 2.2 issues list regarding
buggy ExpressInstall behavior.
I'm not ready to make any proclamations about what we should or shouldn't
do, but all I was saying in my previous post is that there isn't much we
*can* do since Adobe owns the process. Altering SWFObject to disallow
ExpressInstall functionality for any version of FP prior to 10.0.42 is not
advisable.
Thanks for the testing data, we will certainly do additional testing when
we can find some time.
- philip
On Sun, Feb 19, 2012 at 8:16 AM, Alan Pinstein apinst...@mac.com wrote:
While I agree that this isn't SWFObject's fault, that doesn't mean
swfobject can't do anything about it.
I just patched the source on the swfobject.js that we use to fail over
to the alternative content if the person is on a setup that won't
properly expressInstall. Our alternative content includes a install
flash button so that they can successfully upgrade if they want.
I don't think doing nothing is the best option because the
expressinstall is an infinite loop of frustration.
function canExpressInstall() {
if (ua.win)
{
if (ua.pv[0] == 9) return false;
if (ua.pv[0] == 10 ua.pv[1] == 0 ua.pv[2] 42)
return false;
}
return !isExpressInstallActive hasPlayerVersion(6.0.65)
(ua.win || ua.mac) !(ua.wk ua.wk 312);
}
I think that it is appropriate for swfobject to gracefully handle this
situation for its users.
There are other issues, like expressinstall on Mac OS 10.7 doesn't
work, because it gets a security sandbox violation. So that situation
should probably be carved out as well, however at the moment it wasn't
an issue for us since almost no one on mac is below FP 10.2.
Anyway, thanks to Aran's help I have isolated the issue to bugs in
Adobe's updater (rather than swfobject directly). I thought it would
be appreciated that I share back with the community the results of
some thorough testing.
If you think it'd be useful I can pull request this stuff on the 2.3
branch on GitHub.
Alan
On Feb 18, 4:37 pm, Philip Hutchison platelu...@gmail.com wrote:
Bottom line is: Flash Player's Express Install functionality is not
completely reliable, and there's really not much SWFObject can do about
it.
The Express Install experience -- when it works -- varies from browser to
browser. Express Install is a great idea, but has always suffered from a
flawed implementation.
Since SWFObject merely kickstarts the process and doesn't own it, there's
not much we can do about it.
- philip
On Fri, Feb 17, 2012 at 9:32 AM, Alan Pinstein apinst...@mac.com
wrote:
I just tested ExpressInstall on a bunch of Flash versions running in
IE and FF on Win XP SP2, and here are the results:
WIN Flash Player 10,1,82,76
WIN Flash Player 10,1,53,64
WIN Flash Player 10,0,45,2
WIN Flash Player 10,0,42,34
FAIL Flash Player 10,0,32,18
DID NOT TEST Flash Player 10,0,22,87
NA Flash Player 10,0,15,3 LINUX ONLY
FAIL Flash Player 10,0,12,36
FAIL Flash Player 9r280
So, basically ExpressInstall FAILS until 10,0,42,34.
I wonder if we should repeat this test on XP3, Mac, Vista, etc, and if
it's true, force SWFobject to fail the ExpressInstall on these
versions.
Thoughts?
Alan
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[SWFObject] Re: ExpressInstall issue...
While I agree that this isn't SWFObject's fault, that doesn't mean
swfobject can't do anything about it.
I just patched the source on the swfobject.js that we use to fail over
to the alternative content if the person is on a setup that won't
properly expressInstall. Our alternative content includes a install
flash button so that they can successfully upgrade if they want.
I don't think doing nothing is the best option because the
expressinstall is an infinite loop of frustration.
function canExpressInstall() {
if (ua.win)
{
if (ua.pv[0] == 9) return false;
if (ua.pv[0] == 10 ua.pv[1] == 0 ua.pv[2] 42)
return false;
}
return !isExpressInstallActive hasPlayerVersion(6.0.65)
(ua.win || ua.mac) !(ua.wk ua.wk 312);
}
I think that it is appropriate for swfobject to gracefully handle this
situation for its users.
There are other issues, like expressinstall on Mac OS 10.7 doesn't
work, because it gets a security sandbox violation. So that situation
should probably be carved out as well, however at the moment it wasn't
an issue for us since almost no one on mac is below FP 10.2.
Anyway, thanks to Aran's help I have isolated the issue to bugs in
Adobe's updater (rather than swfobject directly). I thought it would
be appreciated that I share back with the community the results of
some thorough testing.
If you think it'd be useful I can pull request this stuff on the 2.3
branch on GitHub.
Alan
On Feb 18, 4:37 pm, Philip Hutchison platelu...@gmail.com wrote:
Bottom line is: Flash Player's Express Install functionality is not
completely reliable, and there's really not much SWFObject can do about it.
The Express Install experience -- when it works -- varies from browser to
browser. Express Install is a great idea, but has always suffered from a
flawed implementation.
Since SWFObject merely kickstarts the process and doesn't own it, there's
not much we can do about it.
- philip
On Fri, Feb 17, 2012 at 9:32 AM, Alan Pinstein apinst...@mac.com wrote:
I just tested ExpressInstall on a bunch of Flash versions running in
IE and FF on Win XP SP2, and here are the results:
WIN Flash Player 10,1,82,76
WIN Flash Player 10,1,53,64
WIN Flash Player 10,0,45,2
WIN Flash Player 10,0,42,34
FAIL Flash Player 10,0,32,18
DID NOT TEST Flash Player 10,0,22,87
NA Flash Player 10,0,15,3 LINUX ONLY
FAIL Flash Player 10,0,12,36
FAIL Flash Player 9r280
So, basically ExpressInstall FAILS until 10,0,42,34.
I wonder if we should repeat this test on XP3, Mac, Vista, etc, and if
it's true, force SWFobject to fail the ExpressInstall on these
versions.
Thoughts?
Alan
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Re: [SWFObject] Re: ExpressInstall issue...
Bottom line is: Flash Player's Express Install functionality is not completely reliable, and there's really not much SWFObject can do about it. The Express Install experience -- when it works -- varies from browser to browser. Express Install is a great idea, but has always suffered from a flawed implementation. Since SWFObject merely kickstarts the process and doesn't own it, there's not much we can do about it. - philip On Fri, Feb 17, 2012 at 9:32 AM, Alan Pinstein apinst...@mac.com wrote: I just tested ExpressInstall on a bunch of Flash versions running in IE and FF on Win XP SP2, and here are the results: WIN Flash Player 10,1,82,76 WIN Flash Player 10,1,53,64 WIN Flash Player 10,0,45,2 WIN Flash Player 10,0,42,34 FAIL Flash Player 10,0,32,18 DID NOT TEST Flash Player 10,0,22,87 NA Flash Player 10,0,15,3 LINUX ONLY FAIL Flash Player 10,0,12,36 FAIL Flash Player 9r280 So, basically ExpressInstall FAILS until 10,0,42,34. I wonder if we should repeat this test on XP3, Mac, Vista, etc, and if it's true, force SWFobject to fail the ExpressInstall on these versions. Thoughts? Alan -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups SWFObject group. To post to this group, send email to swfobject@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to swfobject+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/swfobject?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups SWFObject group. To post to this group, send email to swfobject@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to swfobject+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/swfobject?hl=en.
[SWFObject] Re: ExpressInstall issue...
So the only things which swfobject can control in regards to the process (after determining an update is required) is: loaderClip.redirectURL = _level0.MMredirectURL; loaderClip.MMplayerType = _level0.MMplayerType; (insidehttp://code.google.com/p/swfobject/source/browse/trunk/swfobject/src/... ) - The redirect URL is where we take the user after the update has happened. This is set in swfobject.js to : win.location.toString().replace(//g,%26) I am not 100% sure about this, but I think that line should look like this to be more correct: fv = MMredirectURL= + encodeURIComponent(win.location) + MMplayerType= + encodeURIComponent(pt) + MMdoctitle= + encodeURIComponent(doc.title); I tried that with the same problem anyway. The bug really seems to be in the end of the download process. The install just doesn't kick off. I can get it to repro in FF and IE8 using Flash 10,0,12,36. - The MMPlayerType is important as this determines whether it tries to install a IE/ActiveX or FF/Other plugin. This is set in swfobject.js to: var pt = ua.ie ua.win ? ActiveX : PlugIn; So my thought is that maybe the wrong player type is being installed for some reason? Perhaps you want to add a breakpoint / a console statement on line 330 in swfobject.js within the showExpressInstall function (source version, not minified) and check that the pt / MMPlayerType value is being set to ActiveX correctly when using IE? It's ActiveX in IE8 and Plugin in Firefox. So I don't think this is the issue. Any other ideas? Thanks, Alan -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups SWFObject group. To post to this group, send email to swfobject@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to swfobject+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/swfobject?hl=en.
[SWFObject] Re: ExpressInstall issue...
I just tested ExpressInstall on a bunch of Flash versions running in IE and FF on Win XP SP2, and here are the results: WIN Flash Player 10,1,82,76 WIN Flash Player 10,1,53,64 WIN Flash Player 10,0,45,2 WIN Flash Player 10,0,42,34 FAIL Flash Player 10,0,32,18 DID NOT TEST Flash Player 10,0,22,87 NA Flash Player 10,0,15,3 LINUX ONLY FAIL Flash Player 10,0,12,36 FAIL Flash Player 9r280 So, basically ExpressInstall FAILS until 10,0,42,34. I wonder if we should repeat this test on XP3, Mac, Vista, etc, and if it's true, force SWFobject to fail the ExpressInstall on these versions. Thoughts? Alan -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups SWFObject group. To post to this group, send email to swfobject@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to swfobject+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/swfobject?hl=en.
[SWFObject] Re: ExpressInstall issue...
The bug actually happens in all browsers. I am not sure it's actually happening after you hand over control to Adobe. I think there's a bug in what happens after the download is complete... I just recorded a screencast of the situation here: http://crossbrowsertesting.com/users/apinstein/video/z99c308aac88144a361c?mode=large This was on XP/IE7/Flash 10.0. I wonder if it has something to do with expressinstall.swf's auto- detection of the download completing? http://code.google.com/p/swfobject/source/browse/trunk/swfobject/src/expressInstall.as LMK your thoughts, Alan On Feb 13, 5:39 pm, Aran Rhee aran.r...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Alan. Once the detection happens and you click OK, the whole process is handed over to Adobe / The Flash player. We do not / cannot control it any further than that... It is unusual that IE says that it needs to restart as the whole point of Express Install was that the installation/upgrade all happens inline and the user can view the content straight away without further hinderances (unlike the FF plugin install process) Are you using some multiple IE install or some other non standard IE flavor which could be acting weird? Cheers, Aran On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 3:45 PM, Alan Pinstein apinst...@mac.com wrote: We recently started using the expressinstall feature since our swf now requires 10.2. When testing on various platforms, we've noticed that on many Windows/ IE combos, the install won't complete successfully. SWFobject successfully detects that an upgrade is needed, the small white box appears, you can press OK to install, the download progress bar completes, and finally a large text message appears saying that you need to restart the browser to use the new version. The Adobe installer actually never runs. Restarting the browser just starts the whole process over again. Thoughts? Alan -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups SWFObject group. To post to this group, send email to swfobject@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to swfobject+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/swfobject?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups SWFObject group. To post to this group, send email to swfobject@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to swfobject+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/swfobject?hl=en.
Re: [SWFObject] Re: ExpressInstall issue...
So the only things which swfobject can control in regards to the process (after determining an update is required) is: loaderClip.redirectURL = _level0.MMredirectURL; loaderClip.MMplayerType = _level0.MMplayerType; (inside http://code.google.com/p/swfobject/source/browse/trunk/swfobject/src/expressInstall.as ) - The redirect URL is where we take the user after the update has happened. This is set in swfobject.js to : win.location.toString().replace(//g,%26) - The MMPlayerType is important as this determines whether it tries to install a IE/ActiveX or FF/Other plugin. This is set in swfobject.js to: var pt = ua.ie ua.win ? ActiveX : PlugIn; So my thought is that maybe the wrong player type is being installed for some reason? Perhaps you want to add a breakpoint / a console statement on line 330 in swfobject.js within the showExpressInstall function (source version, not minified) and check that the pt / MMPlayerType value is being set to ActiveX correctly when using IE? Aran On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 10:33 AM, Alan Pinstein apinst...@mac.com wrote: The bug actually happens in all browsers. I am not sure it's actually happening after you hand over control to Adobe. I think there's a bug in what happens after the download is complete... I just recorded a screencast of the situation here: http://crossbrowsertesting.com/users/apinstein/video/z99c308aac88144a361c?mode=large This was on XP/IE7/Flash 10.0. I wonder if it has something to do with expressinstall.swf's auto- detection of the download completing? http://code.google.com/p/swfobject/source/browse/trunk/swfobject/src/expressInstall.as LMK your thoughts, Alan On Feb 13, 5:39 pm, Aran Rhee aran.r...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Alan. Once the detection happens and you click OK, the whole process is handed over to Adobe / The Flash player. We do not / cannot control it any further than that... It is unusual that IE says that it needs to restart as the whole point of Express Install was that the installation/upgrade all happens inline and the user can view the content straight away without further hinderances (unlike the FF plugin install process) Are you using some multiple IE install or some other non standard IE flavor which could be acting weird? Cheers, Aran On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 3:45 PM, Alan Pinstein apinst...@mac.com wrote: We recently started using the expressinstall feature since our swf now requires 10.2. When testing on various platforms, we've noticed that on many Windows/ IE combos, the install won't complete successfully. SWFobject successfully detects that an upgrade is needed, the small white box appears, you can press OK to install, the download progress bar completes, and finally a large text message appears saying that you need to restart the browser to use the new version. The Adobe installer actually never runs. Restarting the browser just starts the whole process over again. Thoughts? Alan -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups SWFObject group. To post to this group, send email to swfobject@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to swfobject+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/swfobject?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups SWFObject group. To post to this group, send email to swfobject@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to swfobject+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/swfobject?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups SWFObject group. To post to this group, send email to swfobject@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to swfobject+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/swfobject?hl=en.
