Re: [Tagging] amenity=kennel
On Fri, 2012-09-14 at 03:12 +0200, Alberto wrote: Ok, because according to English native speakers there isn't a single word that indicates a facility where animals are kept and the staff feeds them and cares of them, I propose to change from amenity=kennel to amenity=animal_shelter. In Italy there are centers for dogs only, cats only, dogs and cats, wild animals in general, wild sea animals only, wild birds only and so on. Any combination is potentially allowed, so adding a tag dog=yes, cat=yes, wild_animals=yes, wild_birds=yes and so on is useful. pet_keeping is not used according to taginfo and it is too restrictive: there are facilities that don't held pets but wild animals. building=asylum is not intuitive and it's not used according to taginfo. Moreover the key building is too restrictive for a center that can include buildings, meadows, courtyards. Amenity=animal_boarding is too restrictive: there are kennels that take stray dogs, catteries for stray cats, rescue centers for wounded wild animals. On the other hand amenity=animal_shelter is intuitive and already in use according to taginfo. Also animal=shelter is already in use: in the wiki animal page it's suggested to use it, but on what basis? There isn't any proposal page and it hasn't been voted. Ultimately I think we have to unify amenity=animal_shelter and animal=shelter in one tag, refine and officialize it. I think that with a feature page and with a preset in editors, one of these could become an universally used tag. Then we can refine it and add one or more additional tags for the purpose of the facility. I prefer amenity=animal_shelter to animal=shelter because according to wiki amenities are an assortment of community facilities and an animal shelter is one of them. On the other hand the key animal is not defined on the wiki and according to taginfo it's often used to indicate a species of animal or simply animal=yes. We have already amenity=veterinary and not animal=veterinary, so why not amenity=animal_shelter? Alberto An animal shelter is a place where lost, or abandoned animals are taken. Either to be cared for, or re-homed. UK examples are charities such as the RSPCA, Dogs Trust, Battersea Dogs Home and numerous other smaller places. Animal shelter appropriate in those cases, but not in the case of Boarding Kennels, or Boarding Catteries where you take your pet to be cared for whilst you go on holiday. For these I would propose amenity=boarding_kennel and amenity=boarding_cattery. A few do take cats and dogs, but in my experience this is extremely unusual, few cat owners would want to leave their cat at a place where they will hear dogs. Small animal boarding is another amenity, however not very common. I have never come across a place where small animals, cats and dogs are cared for, other than animal shelters. Phil; ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] amenity=kennel
I also think that amenity=animal_shelter with other tags to indicate kinds of animals goes in the sense of OSM tagging. Things like animal=shelter are nonsense: a shelter is not an animal, whereas an animal_shelter is an amenity. To set a general rule of thumb, for those tags that are not boolean properties (yes/no), the value (animal_shelter) shall be an item from the set represented by the key (amenity). To remove ambiguities related to short tags like horse=yes, why not using another set of specific tags indicating whether a kind of animal is accepted in the shelter, like animal_shelter:dog=yes, animal_shelter:cat=yes, animal_shelter:horse=yes and so on, maybe refining the attribute yes by something more useful? Teuxe - Mail original - De: Alberto albertoferra...@fastwebnet.it À: tagging@openstreetmap.org Envoyé: Vendredi 14 Septembre 2012 03:12:48 Objet: [Tagging] amenity=kennel Ok, because according to English native speakers there isn't a single word that indicates a facility where animals are kept and the staff feeds them and cares of them, I propose to change from amenity=kennel to amenity=animal_shelter. In Italy there are centers for dogs only, cats only, dogs and cats, wild animals in general, wild sea animals only, wild birds only and so on. Any combination is potentially allowed, so adding a tag dog=yes, cat=yes, wild_animals=yes, wild_birds=yes and so on is useful. pet_keeping is not used according to taginfo and it is too restrictive: there are facilities that don't held pets but wild animals. building=asylum is not intuitive and it's not used according to taginfo. Moreover the key building is too restrictive for a center that can include buildings, meadows, courtyards. Amenity=animal_boarding is too restrictive: there are kennels that take stray dogs, catteries for stray cats, rescue centers for wounded wild animals. On the other hand amenity=animal_shelter is intuitive and already in use according to taginfo. Also animal=shelter is already in use: in the wiki animal page it's suggested to use it, but on what basis? There isn't any proposal page and it hasn't been voted. Ultimately I think we have to unify amenity=animal_shelter and animal=shelter in one tag, refine and officialize it. I think that with a feature page and with a preset in editors, one of these could become an universally used tag. Then we can refine it and add one or more additional tags for the purpose of the facility. I prefer amenity=animal_shelter to animal=shelter because according to wiki amenities are an assortment of community facilities and an animal shelter is one of them. On the other hand the key animal is not defined on the wiki and according to taginfo it's often used to indicate a species of animal or simply animal=yes. We have already amenity=veterinary and not animal=veterinary, so why not amenity=animal_shelter? Alberto ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] amenity=kennel
On Fri, 2012-09-14 at 19:10 +1000, Ross Scanlon wrote: Animal shelter appropriate in those cases, but not in the case of Boarding Kennels, or Boarding Catteries where you take your pet to be cared for whilst you go on holiday. For these I would propose amenity=boarding_kennel and amenity=boarding_cattery. A few do take cats and dogs, but in my experience this is extremely unusual, few cat owners would want to leave their cat at a place where they will hear dogs. May be the case in UK but in rural areas of Australia it's the opposite. Most take cats and dogs. Usually well separated as plenty of space. So I'd suggest amenity=pet_boarding or amenity=kennel and then dog=yes, cat=yes, etc +1 I would go along with that one. Kennel implies dogs. Phil ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] amenity=kennel
Ross Scanlon i...@4x4falcon.com wrote: Animal shelter appropriate in those cases, but not in the case of Boarding Kennels, or Boarding Catteries where you take your pet to be cared for whilst you go on holiday. For these I would propose amenity=boarding_kennel and amenity=boarding_cattery. A few do take cats and dogs, but in my experience this is extremely unusual, few cat owners would want to leave their cat at a place where they will hear dogs. May be the case in UK but in rural areas of Australia it's the opposite. Most take cats and dogs. Usually well separated as plenty of space. So I'd suggest amenity=pet_boarding or amenity=kennel and then dog=yes, cat=yes, etc Cheers Ross In the USA (at least in Nashville, Tennessee, where I live) veterinary offices often include boarding services for small animals. Some only board one type of animals, but accepting more than one type is more common. -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] amenity=kennel
2012/9/14 John F. Eldredge j...@jfeldredge.com In the USA (at least in Nashville, Tennessee, where I live) veterinary offices often include boarding services for small animals. Some only board one type of animals, but accepting more than one type is more common. Services are tagged like service:bicycle:repair=yes for shops that will repair your bike. For animals it could be service:animal:grooming=yes if the shop will hairstyle your dog, or service:animal:boarding=yes and so on. If they take only one type of animal, maybe it could be something like service:animal:boarding=dog;cat Janko ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] amenity=kennel
Janko Mihelić wrote: Services are tagged like service:bicycle:repair=yes for shops that will repair your bike. Saying that implies that people actually use tags such as these. Taginfo suggests otherwise: shop=bicycle: 13,425 service:bicycle:repair: 758 I'm guessing that it's a fair bet that more than 5% of all bike shops do some sort of repairs - unless the complexity of tags like this are hidden from users (e.g. by editor support) they won't get used enough to be useful. Cheers, Andy ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] amenity=kennel
Dana petak, 14. rujna 2012., korisnik SomeoneElse li...@mail.atownsend.org.uk je napisao: Saying that implies that people actually use tags such as these. Taginfo suggests otherwise: shop=bicycle: 13,425 service:bicycle:repair: 758 I'm guessing that it's a fair bet that more than 5% of all bike shops do some sort of repairs - unless the complexity of tags like this are hidden from users (e.g. by editor support) they won't get used enough to be useful. There is a rule for tags; if you render it, they will use it. Look at this map: http://open.geof.hr/~dodobas/zgbikes.html Shops with service:bicycle:retail=yes have a shoping cart, repair have a little tool. Quite usefull, don't you think so? Janko ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] amenity=kennel
Martin wrote: Actually I just revived an old proposal for stables [1]. My first thought was to simply use stables=animal until someone with much better english language skills pointed out that stables usually only refer to horses. I would also like to see one common tag for some place where animals are kept and taken care of. Any suggestions from native speakers? I'm a native speaker... Only few types of animal have specific names for where they are kept; the rest would come under farm, zoo, wildlife park, animal rescue and perhaps nature reserve. Also, some countries have animal quarantine facilities. The only ones that I can think of at short notice are: horse, donkey: stable dog: kennel cat: cattery birds: aviary, dovecote bees: apiary There are several types of kennel, including boarding (for looking after pet dogs while you are away) and hunt kennels for hounds; also other working dogs e.g. police dogs, military dogs. (Catteries are for boarding.) Historically, rabbits were kept in artificial warrens that people built for them! But now, commercial rearing of rabbits probably comes under farm. There's probably a special word for where working ferrets are kept (English tends to have words like that), but I don't know what it is, and it might vary between dialects anyway. __John ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] amenity=kennel
Native speaker here too. How about amenity=animal_boarding instead of kennel? Boarding typically refers to places you can pay to leave your dogs, cats, horses, etc. for a period and have them be cared for. One could also add additional tags like dogs=yes, cats=yes, etc., since these facilities sometimes do take more than one kind of animal. Sanctuaries and humane societies, as well as training facilities, etc. would be different tags. Just my two cents! -Mele Sax-Barnett -Original Message- Martin wrote: Actually I just revived an old proposal for stables [1]. My first thought was to simply use stables=animal until someone with much better english language skills pointed out that stables usually only refer to horses. I would also like to see one common tag for some place where animals are kept and taken care of. Any suggestions from native speakers? I'm a native speaker... Only few types of animal have specific names for where they are kept; the rest would come under farm, zoo, wildlife park, animal rescue and perhaps nature reserve. Also, some countries have animal quarantine facilities. The only ones that I can think of at short notice are: horse, donkey: stable dog: kennel cat: cattery birds: aviary, dovecote bees: apiary There are several types of kennel, including boarding (for looking after pet dogs while you are away) and hunt kennels for hounds; also other working dogs e.g. police dogs, military dogs. (Catteries are for boarding.) Historically, rabbits were kept in artificial warrens that people built for them! But now, commercial rearing of rabbits probably comes under farm. There's probably a special word for where working ferrets are kept (English tends to have words like that), but I don't know what it is, and it might vary between dialects anyway. __John -- ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging End of Tagging Digest, Vol 36, Issue 21 *** ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] amenity=kennel
2012/9/13 Sax-Barnett, Melelani barne...@trimet.org: add additional tags like dogs=yes, cats=yes, etc., since these facilities sometimes do take more than one kind of animal. +1, we should do this, and it is already done ;-), you will find this documented in the wiki and there is also data: http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/search?q=dog One aspect we might talk about: will this better be tagged in the singular (as suggested in the wiki = dog) or in the plural form (like you suggested = dogs). Looking at the above taginfo results it seems to be more popular to use the singular form, but there is at least one big problem: for horse this doesn't work, as it is already in use for legal access-restrictions (bridleways, ...). cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
