[OSM-legal-talk] Spanish Order of Ministry
Good news, everyone! I think I must be dreaming today. This is too good news to be true. An Order of Ministry was issued yesterday: http://www.boe.es/g/es/bases_datos/doc.php?coleccion=indilexid=2008/06229txtlen=1000 Basically, it is the data policy for the geo information made by the spanish national mapping agency (IGN). And it looks very, very nice. I really have to discuss the wording with a local lawyer. As far as I understand it, some of the data is available on an attribution-only basis; the whole rest is available for non-commercial uses. Anyway, this is still good news even if the data is for non-commercial uses. Take that, NMA's with restrictive licesing! :-P Cheers all, -- Iván Sánchez Ortega [EMAIL PROTECTED] Un ordenador no es un televisor ni un microondas, es una herramienta compleja. ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] GSoC applications are in! MENTORS wanted
Hakan Tandogan wrote: I am an self-employed Computer Scientist with lots of experience in databases and web applications. I live and work in Germany. Hi Hakan (I can probably talk in German with you :-)) thanks for volunteering, I have accepted you as a mentor. You can now click on any proposal you like and say that you are willing to mentor a proposal (such as the geonames one). I can't enter info like this myself. Google seems rather strict with this. Honestly, I was wondering about the Geonames project application. I am not sure (from a license point of view) that we can import Geonames data, as they also require attribution. spaetz CC dev list to get some feedback on the license issues involved. ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-dev] [OSM-talk] GSoC applications are in! MENTORS wanted
Hi, Honestly, I was wondering about the Geonames project application. I am not sure (from a license point of view) that we can import Geonames data, as they also require attribution. I *think* the Geonames project is about setting up some sort of tile source that has Geonames data on it, thus avoiding importing it to OSM; *maybe* it would try to put only stuff on the tiles where OSM hasn't got its own data so this would make an nice extension to OSM without license problems. But all this is very vague at the moment. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail [EMAIL PROTECTED] ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Attribution
On Mon, Apr 07, 2008 at 05:28:37PM +0100, Gervase Markham wrote: The shorter, the better (sometimes space is limited). So why not, with a small DNS change: openstreetmap.org/credit If we have to attribute at all (I wanna PD map!) I'd prefer the main website to have a link to Contributers (or Credits or whatever) on the front page and any other use of the data just to have to have openstreetmap.org cited. s ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-dev] [OSM-talk] GSoC applications are in! MENTORS wanted
Nick Black wrote: And because they derive from Google Maps, more importantly. I think we should be a bit more careful with such statements. Nowhere on the geonames page do they say that data is, or should be, derived from Google Maps. What? Geonames allows you to move and edit data which is overlaid onto a Google Map. Go to http://www.geonames.org/maps/cities.html and click on a city. It is true that http://www.geonames.org/manual.html uses google maps to tell people how to add and edit place names etc. Which is IMHO as close to being derived from Google Maps as it gets. At the least it is being much less cautious than we are in respect of data cleanness. spaetz ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-dev] [OSM-talk] GSoC applications are in! MENTORS wanted
On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 5:23 PM, Frederik Ramm [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, What? Geonames allows you to move and edit data which is overlaid onto a Google Map. Go to http://www.geonames.org/maps/cities.html and click on a city. You're right, there's a move link there which I had overlooked. Nonetheless, apart from the geo location of the city I get tons of other info that could not possibly come from Google... I'm not sure that Teleatlas would see it that way, but that's not the point. We don't want to find out how TA would see OSM's use of or infringement of their data. I understand a certain desire to say we are cooler than other mapping project but we should make an attempt to do so without slander. As you know there are ways and tools to create OSM data that is derived from Google Earth or Google Maps, Like what? No-one should be entering data into OSM that is derived from a proprietary source. I know that nobody should, and I won't give you a run-down of ways for people to do it nonetheless. I'm just saying that if someone was bent on demonstrating how easy Google data could find its way into OSM, then he wouldn't have to work very hard. Ok, but there's a difference between saying that someone could add proprietary data to OSM and saying there are tools to add Google derived data to OSM - thats very specific. If you or anyone knows about this you should ask whoever is developing or promoting the tools to stop and let the foundation know about it. I admit that its probably not best to list these sort of things on a public mailing list. Bye Frederik -- Nick Black http://www.blacksworld.net ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Reverse Geocoding
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, 04 Apr 2008 09:34:33 +0200, Iván Sánchez Ortega [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: El Viernes, 4 de Abril de 2008, [EMAIL PROTECTED] escribió: There is no „minimal size of data” for the CC-BY-SA to apply. Hence all „viral SA” elements are triggered. Yes, there is. No. The CC-BY-SA still applies. There is no clause in the CC-BY-SA claiming data has to have this or that amount. There doesn't need to be. CC-BY-SA essentially works through copyright and copyright, in the EU at least, does not subsist in minimal amounts of factual data. (There is an argument to say that it doesn't subsist in larger amounts of factual data, which is why database right exists.) cheers Richard ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Relations not always brilliant
Steve Hill wrote: On Mon, 7 Apr 2008, Frederik Ramm wrote: If it's done consistently, one can still create relations automatically later if desired. But this is kind of the point - if you are able to automatically create the relations (and presumably automatically fix them if someone makes the way tags inconsistent with the relation tags) with very little effort, is there a good reason to create them in the first place rather than deriving that data as and when you need it? I harp back to *MY* original request. That there is a mechanism created for managing hierarchical data properly. Looking for ref=M11 is no use what so ever if there are M11's in several countries? Until there is some UNIQUE way of tagging high level relationships consistently, then there seems little point trying to fix fine detail at the lower level. It brings back up the simple problem of producing a unique list of objects in the data. How DO we currently identify all roads in the UK, so that we don't end up with some of the simply silly links that the likes of Autoroute returns when asking for a location. We need a consistent UNIQUE index method that will allow all 'ref=M11' elements in the UK to be identified as that one element. This may need the is_in to be correctly flagged, but what is actually missing is some HASH method whereby M11,UK is identified as #12345 while M11,NZ is #12346. This may well need some automated methods to manage it, but until there is some agreement on HOW the problem should be solved is there any point discussing how you combine disjointed bits of some road and flag the direction information needed to direct people through them? If I am searching for UK information I need some means of identifying it without having to do polygon transforms on 100s of thousands of elements when the boundary surrounding them is not even complete yet :( Please can we at least start with a set of objects that define the countries of the world and consistently uses them to define those elements that are within each country? -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://home.lsces.co.uk/lsces/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://home.lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk// Firebird - http://www.firebirdsql.org/index.php ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Relations not always brilliant
Lester Caine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: until there is some UNIQUE way of tagging high level relationships consistently, then there seems little point trying to fix fine detail at the lower level. It brings back up the simple problem of producing a unique list of objects in the data. How DO we currently identify all roads in the UK, so that we don't end up with some of the simply silly links that the likes of Autoroute returns when asking for a location. This doesn't solve your uniqueness problem, with routes, roads, or possibly anything else. Route references within a country certainly aren't always unique. Ensuring the reference is in the same country doesn't mean you still won't get silly results. A relation provides a unique relation id which distinguishes the M1 in London, from the M1 in Sydney, from the M1 in Melbourne, from the M1 in Auckland, etc. This makes each road reference unique, without trying to predict the way road references work in different places. The alternative to using a relation is developing a set of heuristics, using country, location, reference name, connection nodes, etc. The question is whether the complexity of the set that would have to be developed, and handling the exceptions is better than the complexity of implementing the required relations. Ian. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapnik PointSymbolizer question
Never had occasion to do that but sure it is possible. To move the TextSymboliser something like this moves label 8 pixels above the symbol: Rule MaxScaleDenominator5/MaxScaleDenominator MinScaleDenominator25000/MinScaleDenominator Filter[railway]='station'/Filter TextSymbolizer name=name face_name=DejaVu Sans Bold size=9 fill=#000 dy=-8 halo_radius=1 wrap_width=0/ /Rule Use of similar dy=xx command (or dx=+/- to move in horizontal direction) would work in PointSymbolizer command Cheers STEVE -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Steven te Brinke Sent: Mon 4/7/2008 8:33 PM To: talk@openstreetmap.org Cc: Subject: [OSM-talk] Mapnik PointSymbolizer question Hello, Does anyone know if it is possible in Mapnik to place a PointSymbolizer at some offset from the point instead of centering the image above the point. Thanks, Steven ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Relations not always brilliant
On Tue, 8 Apr 2008, Lester Caine wrote: How DO we currently identify all roads in the UK, so that we don't end up with some of the simply silly links that the likes of Autoroute returns when asking for a location. We need a consistent UNIQUE index method that will allow all 'ref=M11' elements in the UK to be identified as that one element. Why do we need them all to be identified with a single element? You cite route planning as a reason but I really don't see why it is applicable - your route planner doesn't need to know that two bits of road with a gap between them are (administratively) the same road. In fact, there are only 2 times a route planner needs to know about the road's ref or name: 1. When producing instructions (Take the 3rd exit onto the M11) 2. As you cross from one way to another in order to determine if it is really a junction or just a continuation of the same way (you don't want it to tell you to continue along the M11 at arbitrary points just because the way has been split there, and you might want to impose some kind of penalty for turning off the road to prevent the route from containing too many small turns). Putting all of the separate bits of the UK's M11 in a single relation sounds about as silly as putting all the roads in the UK called Station Road in a single relation - they are separate roads and there is no good reason to treat them in any other way. - Steve xmpp:[EMAIL PROTECTED] sip:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.nexusuk.org/ Servatis a periculum, servatis a maleficum - Whisper, Evanescence ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] GSoC applications are in! MENTORS wanted
Hi all, Google summer of code application deadline has passed. We have received 27 applications. I have stripped out sensitive information such as e-mail addresses and other contact information (and also a full CV) and put the on this wiki page: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/GSoC_Applications_2008 I did this for 2 reasons: 2) We need mentors for the students, and depending on how many slots Google will assign us, that could be a few. So, if you find an application that sounds great to you and you would love to mentor it, then step forward and tell me (AND sign up also). I think chances of wanted applications should be better, as a motivated mentor is a good thing to have! So far these 5 people have signed up as mentors: Artem Dudarev, Avinash Dubey David Christopher Anderson Frederik Ramm, MALLA RAVINDRA ADITYA I only know Frederik of this list, perhaps the others could step forward and tell me who they are and what areas they would like to mentor. These people have volunteered in the wiki, it would be great if really they could sign up as mentors: Mikel, RalfZ, Milovanderlinden, Texamus, Geonick, Ramack, Fjbehr. There is a mentors guide to the GSoC thingie which you would need to follow: http://groups.google.com/group/google-summer-of-code-announce/web/guide-to-the-gsoc-web-app-for-mentors-and-organization-administrators It basically boils down to: 1) login into google somewhere. 2) visit http://code.google.com/soc/mentor_step1.html 3) Sign up, check OpenStreetMap 4) Browse the applications and click on I am willing to mentor wherever you think you would like to mentor someone. Thanks Sebastian ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] GSoC applications are in! Feedback wanted
Hi all, Google summer of code application deadline has passed. We have received 27 applications. I have stripped out sensitive information such as e-mail addresses and other contact information (and also a full CV) and put the on this wiki page: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/GSoC_Applications_2008 I did this for 2 reasons: 1) Please look at the proposals and, if you want, add some feedback to the discussion part of that page. I will browse through and take the comments into account when rating the proposals together with SteveC. This needs to happen quick, as the rating is likely to happen soon. Reason 2 follows soon in a separate mail :-) Thanks Sebastian ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Relations not always brilliant
Lester Caine wrote: I harp back to *MY* original request. I thought you might. ;) That there is a mechanism created for managing hierarchical data properly. You can superimpose a structure on OSM two ways: either through forcing the data to be entered and tagged in a certain way, or through post-processing. Imposing it simply via data entry will not work for our community. It requires either strict rules on what data is entered (can't work with a user-base growing at the rate ours is), or for the editing software to provide a greater level of abstraction, and experience shows that many of our users _resent_ abstraction - they want to control exactly what's going into the database. So it has to be via post-processing - and this has the advantage that two people can derive a completely different structure from the same database. And, again, let's work on the libraries to make this as easy as possible. I agree with your later point that it would be good to have a mechanism of finding out what's in each country (and, ultimately, county/département/länd/whatever) - but rather than requiring everyone to tag with some new hierarchical equivalent of is_in, let's use the boundaries that people are already drawing to set up a painted image of the world, coastline-style, with a lookup service. Would be a great GSoC project sometime... next year! cheers Richard ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapnik: amenity=bus_station
How are people tagging bus stops? I have been setting tagging nodes that are members of the way, which means they are part of the road they are on. Is this the right way to do it? It seems right since it unambiguously shows which road the stop is on, but it doesn't allow any indication as to which side of the road the stop is on. - Steve xmpp:[EMAIL PROTECTED] sip:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.nexusuk.org/ Servatis a periculum, servatis a maleficum - Whisper, Evanescence ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Birmingham mapping party - Radio Interview today
For those interested I'm expecting to go into BBC WM local radio to do a live interview at 14:10ish BST today. Part of the Les Ross show. http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/aod/wm.shtml to listen live Cheers Andy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Relations not always brilliant
Robert (Jamie) Munro wrote: It might not be the A11 from the point of view of who is in charge of maintaining it, but it is the A11 from the point of view of someone following the route Have you talked to the people who are in charge of the road? Maybe they are friends of OSM, as opposed to the Ordnance Survey. Maybe we have a common enemy in the OS? In Sweden, the parenthesis is not used on road signs but instead a dotted line around the road number. This is national road 58, http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:1_5_4_2.svg And this is a road leading towards road 58, http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:1_5_4_4.svg Still, there is at least near Kvarntorp some confusion of whether road 51 goes north to Örebro or east towards E20 south of Kumla. Both roads carry signs 51 without any dotted line. But according to Wikipedia, the road north is a branch named 51.01, http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riksv%C3%A4g_51 Eniro, a popular Swedish map site, shows all three roads as 51, http://kartor.eniro.se/query?what=map_adrmop=aqmapstate=6;15.282434534059728;59.133863881839446;s;15.248667763412294;59.14890027267818;15.316133905963355;59.118827491000715;1001;842mapcomp=;;0;00stq=0 Google Maps says 51 goes east-west only, not north, http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8ll=59.13421,15.289536spn=0.033025,0.090637z=14 Multimap agrees with Google, http://www.multimap.com/maps/#t=lmap=59.13084,15.28539|14|4loc=SE:58.66117:15.18308 Point in case is that Örebro (north) is the major city, and people from there know that road 51 starts in their town. -- Lars Aronsson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) Aronsson Datateknik - http://aronsson.se ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapnik: amenity=bus_station
I must admit that I have never liked the use of such a large symbol (green bus) for bus stops on the mapnik layer. I would be inclined to use that for bus stations and design a smaller symbol for road-side bus stops (yet can think of no suitable symbol just now - except perhaps a small green loppypop). However, the disparity is usage shown by Jon's stats rather puts me off doing that just now. By usage bus station seems to be predominantly considered an an amenity, and bus stops a highway feature. Cheers STEVE Steve Chilton, Learning Support Fellow Learning and Technical Support Unit Manager School of Health and Social Sciences Middlesex University phone/fax: 020 8411 5355 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.mdx.ac.uk/schools/hssc/staff/profiles/technical/chiltons.asp Chair of the Society of Cartographers: http://www.soc.org.uk/ SoC conference 2008: http://www.abdn.ac.uk/cartographers08/ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jon Burgess Sent: 06 April 2008 13:26 To: Steven te Brinke Cc: talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Mapnik: amenity=bus_station On Sun, 2008-04-06 at 13:38 +0200, Steven te Brinke wrote: Hello, The current mapnik rules will render amenity=bus_stop, but the map features define it as amenity=bus_station. Steven I seem to remember that the rendering for amenity=bus_stop was put in because it was in use prior to the approval of highway=bus_stop in Map_Features. It was never intended to be bus_station. We should probably render amenity=bus_station too but we should use a more significant icon and render them at lower zooms. The counts of the different 'bus*' values from the latest planet dump are below for reference... gis= select amenity,count(amenity) as number from planet_osm_point where amenity like 'bus%' group by amenity order by number desc; amenity | number -+ bus_station | 1051 bus_stop|216 bus stop| 5 bus_depot | 3 bus_terminal| 2 busstop | 2 bus_parking | 2 bus station | 1 business_park | 1 business centre | 1 bus_stop? | 1 (11 rows) gis= select highway,count(highway) as number from planet_osm_point where highway like 'bus%' group by highway order by number desc; highway | number --+ bus_stop | 13532 bus_halt |230 bus_station | 69 bus stop | 4 busstop | 4 bus_stop | 2 bus_sluice | 1 bus_stop:forward | 1 (8 rows) Jon ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Relations not always brilliant
On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 1:04 PM, Robert (Jamie) Munro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You don't think that searching for M11 should You seem to be discussing a hypothetical search engine - how it works is dependent on the implementation of the search engine, not the structure of the database, and so this is not relevant to the conversation at hand. Cheers, Andy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Relations not always brilliant
On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 1:33 PM, Steve Hill [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But a motorway which is not a continuous road (i.e. has gaps in it) is _not_ a single road - I see no reason why it should be treated as one. Maybe you could cite some examples of why you need to treat it as a single road, even though it has gaps in it? ...or more importantly, examples where not using relations makes the task impossible, as opposed to just tricky... Andy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Voting
Frederik Ramm schrieb: But honestly, how can you ever believe that a process run by less than 0.1% of participants in the project can have any authority? I can't remember that ULFL ever claimed that. I also can't remember that anyone in this discussion has given any reason or example where the voting-process could harm the OSM-project. On the contrary, there are many Newbies who are thankful there's ONE tagging-sheme for one feature instead of several contrary opinions on what could be bad and good. Will this discussion only end when Ulf, Robin, me and several others set up a separate wiki for those who want to agree on and use a consistent tagging sheme because they believe it's a good thing? When this project is so open, why are we always blamed for what we do? regards, Sven ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Relations not always brilliant
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 David Ebling wrote: | I'm firmly with Richard so far on this discussion. | | On one of the issues, Robert, your understanding of | what A14 (A11) means seems very different to mine. | If I understand you correctly, you're arguing the road | should be tagged A11 because it has signs saying (A11) | on it, meaning that it's part of at A11 route. We're getting way distracted here. I merely suggested that if it were part of both roads (which legally it seems not to be in the UK, but according to comments legally is in similar situations in the USA), then you'd need to put it in a relationship to make the road as an entity make sense - just using ref's doesn't work well. Richard seemed to be arguing that putting the whole A11 (with or without the connecting parts from other roads) in a single relationship was not brilliant. Surely that's what relationships are for? I still don't think it's wrong to relate the stretch of the A14 that connects the disjointed parts of the A11 together in some way, no matter what the law says, but either way, the parts of a long route should be related to each other for database tidiness and consistency reasons. It just makes sense. Robert (Jamie) Munro -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFH+2n1z+aYVHdncI0RAoTHAJ4z5w2EMqidGE35QRPA+/RrqAU4TgCbBafK YD48YNWofcgIc6cmmcRPVCI= =JauA -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapnik: amenity=bus_station
Steve Hill wrote: How are people tagging bus stops? I have been setting tagging nodes that are members of the way, which means they are part of the road they are on. Is this the right way to do it? It seems right since it unambiguously shows which road the stop is on, but it doesn't allow any indication as to which side of the road the stop is on. I've been doing the opposite, and have only recently realised that your way is the way I was supposed to do it.. I have mapped quite a few bus stops where the bus stop is on a pedestrian island and I want to show not only 'side of road' but also a fairly exact physical position. I'd be reluctant to give that up to plonk all my bus stops in the middle of the road... I wonder if anyone has done any counts of how many stops in the db are points in ways, and how many are points beside ways? Graham - Steve xmpp:[EMAIL PROTECTED] sip:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.nexusuk.org/ Servatis a periculum, servatis a maleficum - Whisper, Evanescence ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Talk-GB] Birmingham mapping party - Radio Interview today
Definitely happening - being trailered right now, by a guy who sounds as though he knows nothing! Steve Chilton, Learning Support Fellow Learning and Technical Support Unit Manager School of Health and Social Sciences Middlesex University phone/fax: 020 8411 5355 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.mdx.ac.uk/schools/hssc/staff/profiles/technical/chiltons.asp Chair of the Society of Cartographers: http://www.soc.org.uk/ SoC conference 2008: http://www.abdn.ac.uk/cartographers08/ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andy Robinson (blackadder) Sent: 08 April 2008 10:29 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: [Talk-GB] Birmingham mapping party - Radio Interview today For those interested I'm expecting to go into BBC WM local radio to do a live interview at 14:10ish BST today. Part of the Les Ross show. http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/aod/wm.shtml to listen live Cheers Andy ___ Talk-GB mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-gb ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Relations not always brilliant
On Tue, 8 Apr 2008, Robert (Jamie) Munro wrote: You don't think that searching for M11 should produce one result for a road that covers the whole country, and searching for high street should produce hundreds of separate results? But a motorway which is not a continuous road (i.e. has gaps in it) is _not_ a single road - I see no reason why it should be treated as one. Maybe you could cite some examples of why you need to treat it as a single road, even though it has gaps in it? - Steve xmpp:[EMAIL PROTECTED] sip:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.nexusuk.org/ Servatis a periculum, servatis a maleficum - Whisper, Evanescence ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapnik: amenity=bus_station
On Tue, 8 Apr 2008, graham wrote: I have mapped quite a few bus stops where the bus stop is on a pedestrian island and I want to show not only 'side of road' but also a fairly exact physical position. I'd be reluctant to give that up to plonk all my bus stops in the middle of the road... Sounds like a job for a relation (but there are quite enough relation arguments going on at the moment :) - Steve xmpp:[EMAIL PROTECTED] sip:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.nexusuk.org/ Servatis a periculum, servatis a maleficum - Whisper, Evanescence ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Relations not always brilliant
Lester Caine schrieb: Until there is some UNIQUE way of tagging high level relationships consistently, then there seems little point trying to fix fine detail at the lower level. It brings back up the simple problem of producing a unique list of objects in the data. How DO we currently identify all roads in the UK, so that we don't end up with some of the simply silly links that the likes of Autoroute returns when asking for a location. I'm thinking along those lines as well for a while now. I don't believe it suffices to map all boundaries to determine which roads belong to which country/city/suburb. Leave alone the fact that many boundaries are pretty hard to find or even map. When I've mapped a village with, say, 20 roads it takes me less than five clicks to group those in a relation and adding that relation to the relation of the municipality, town, etc. Even with the lowlevel relations support our editors currently have. I believe this is far more practical than to require mappers to map all relevant boundaries. I've recently created a sandbox going the whole way from Planet Earth to Some Road all in nested relations. You can browse it here: http://osm.schunterscouts.de/relation-browser.php (the URL accepts other relations as well, comments welcome) regards, Sven ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Relations not always brilliant
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Dave Stubbs wrote: | On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 1:04 PM, Robert (Jamie) Munro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- | Hash: SHA1 | | | Steve Hill wrote: | | Putting all of the separate bits of the UK's M11 in a single relation | | sounds about as silly as putting all the roads in the UK called Station | | Road in a single relation - they are separate roads and there is no good | | reason to treat them in any other way. | | Seriously, you can't see a difference between the M11, and the | collection of roads called High Street, all over the UK and even the | world? You don't think that the second is just a bit more silly than | the first? | | You don't think that searching for M11 should produce one result for a | road that covers the whole country, and searching for high street should | produce hundreds of separate results? | | | He was talking about disconnected bits, although it does depend to | some extent just how disconnected the bits are as to how silly it is. | I'm sure you can find some nice extreme examples to prove both | arguments. | | I've no idea whether there are actually any disconnected parts of the | M11 - as far as I was aware it's just about 50 miles in the SE of | England - but anyway, that's completely irrelevant to the point. I live about 200m from the A44 in Oxfordshire. I've always belived that this is the road from the middle of Oxford to Aberystwyth, but you're arguing that this is untrue. It's simply the road from Oxford to Moreton in Marsh. It just happens to have the same ref as the road from Moreton in Marsh to Evesham that starts about 60m along the A429 from the road that passes me. Then there just happens to be another separate road with the same ref in Evesham that goes to Worcester and so on until you reach Aberystwyth. These roads have nothing to do with each other, and they shouldn't form a relationship in the database, and I shouldn't expect to ~ get home from Aberystwyth by following them. Robert (Jamie) Munro -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFH+3F6z+aYVHdncI0RAkmyAKCLFb/Se+g0xCFyZ/X8LUtgH5VlXACg9XZ/ MRBqBJdFTRCXBIp0okeuoxk= =PzhM -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Relations not always brilliant
On Tue, 8 Apr 2008, Andrew McCarthy wrote: (2) A relation for that road's notional route, that contains the relation above *plus* the (usually obvious) connecting bits that give you a single, long distance route from A to B. Which bits you use to connect the disjointed sections are a rather arbitrary decision - should OSM be making such decisions? I mean, there is no officially documented this is how you get between these sections route so we would be making a route up arbitrarilly. Sure, for some stuff it might be obvious, but for a lot of stuff it isn't. Take the A31, for example - it joins the M3 near Winchester but then reappears on the westerly end of the M27. You might say that the M3 and M27 is obviously the missing link and add that to the A31 relation, but that would be completely unsuitable for cyclists. This really isn't the job for submitters, this is the job for a route planner program - submitters are supposed to be recording data, not making relatively arbitrary decisions about which routes people should take. - Steve xmpp:[EMAIL PROTECTED] sip:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.nexusuk.org/ Servatis a periculum, servatis a maleficum - Whisper, Evanescence ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Voting
Sven, I can't remember that ULFL ever claimed that. Ok. There we go again. Nobody has claimed anything, but the fact of the matter is that a number of people seem to think that those who vote make a decision that is a decision of the project rather than a decision of those five people who voted. I've been critcised for not suggesting an alternative. So here's my suggestion: * Continue your discussion and voting as before * Give yourselves a name (OSM Tagging Task Force or whatever) and create a mailing list. * Do not talk about approved, rejected, or deprecated features; instead, if something is voted in favour, it becomes a recommended by OSMTTF feature. * Be very clear that any feature *not* voted upon, or any feature which got less votes than something else, or any feature that a majority of voters didn't like, is still perfectly valid to use - you just don't actively recommend it. * Never try to keep people from using tags you didn't recommend (i.e. do not add a big message to the Wiki saying THIS FEATURE IS NOT RECOMMENDED!). * Be very clear that the group you form is a small subset of the project; you create recommendations based on today's knowledge and on what you like and dislike. There may be any number of *other* groups in the project who also create recommendations and who have the same right to exist that you have. You are not special, the project has not asked you to please give recommendations, and has not given you any special powers that others don't have. (Much as the project never asks anyone to please write software and be the project's premier software contributor - anyone can do it and if it proves to be good, it is used.) * Be very clear that your recommendations create no obligations whatsoever on the part of renderers and editors; your tags are not better or more important than anyone else's. Do all this and I will stop complaining. I might even actively refer people to you (better talk this over with the guys on the tagging task force list, they usually have good ideas or so). Will this discussion only end when Ulf, Robin, me and several others set up a separate wiki for those who want to agree on and use a consistent tagging sheme because they believe it's a good thing? When this project is so open, why are we always blamed for what we do? I'll draw a parallel to the licensing debate here. Over on legal-talk, I constantly advocate PD, saying that nothing can ever be more free than PD because it has no restrictions. I am then routinely criticised by share-alike advocates who say that the freedom of PD might be abused by people further down the line to actually *reduce* freedom. In this discussion, I find myself on their side: Our project is so open, and I have the impression that you are trying to *reduce* that openness by setting up a voting process. I have the suspicion that in the end you want a project where new tags aren't even allowed unless they underwent discussion and voting. And that's where my fierce opposition comes from. Bye Frederik ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Maplint warnings
Maplint seems to be throwing up not-in-map_features warnings about stuff that is on the Map Features page. For example: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.68309lon=-3.91837zoom=15layers=0BTT There are warnings for the direction=clockwise tags on mini roundabouts, power=tower nodes and power=line ways. - Steve xmpp:[EMAIL PROTECTED] sip:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.nexusuk.org/ Servatis a periculum, servatis a maleficum - Whisper, Evanescence ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Talk-GB] Birmingham mapping party - Radio Interview today
Nice one Andy! Came across really well. Hope we get some local takeup for the weekend mapping party. After his reference to the QI item in lead-up I couldn't help think of the QI moment when Stephen Fry asked panel to say what map of the UK would cost. Alan Davies answered £4-99, to which Fry responded something on lines of Close. Well, I meant the whole OS Mastermap database of UK, which would co(a)st you something like 4.99 million pounds. Cheers STEVE Steve Chilton, Learning Support Fellow Learning and Technical Support Unit Manager School of Health and Social Sciences Middlesex University phone/fax: 020 8411 5355 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.mdx.ac.uk/schools/hssc/staff/profiles/technical/chiltons.asp Chair of the Society of Cartographers: http://www.soc.org.uk/ SoC conference 2008: http://www.abdn.ac.uk/cartographers08/ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steve Chilton Sent: 08 April 2008 13:54 To: Andy Robinson (blackadder); [EMAIL PROTECTED]; talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] [Talk-GB] Birmingham mapping party - Radio Interview today Definitely happening - being trailered right now, by a guy who sounds as though he knows nothing! Steve Chilton, Learning Support Fellow Learning and Technical Support Unit Manager School of Health and Social Sciences Middlesex University phone/fax: 020 8411 5355 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.mdx.ac.uk/schools/hssc/staff/profiles/technical/chiltons.asp Chair of the Society of Cartographers: http://www.soc.org.uk/ SoC conference 2008: http://www.abdn.ac.uk/cartographers08/ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andy Robinson (blackadder) Sent: 08 April 2008 10:29 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: [Talk-GB] Birmingham mapping party - Radio Interview today For those interested I'm expecting to go into BBC WM local radio to do a live interview at 14:10ish BST today. Part of the Les Ross show. http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/aod/wm.shtml to listen live Cheers Andy ___ Talk-GB mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-gb ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Relations not always brilliant
On Tue, Apr 08, 2008 at 01:33:31PM +0100, Steve Hill wrote: But a motorway which is not a continuous road (i.e. has gaps in it) is _not_ a single road - I see no reason why it should be treated as one. Maybe you could cite some examples of why you need to treat it as a single road, even though it has gaps in it? Can we not have both? (1) A relation which contains all the ways that define a road according to its official designation, whether a single road, or several disjoint pieces. and (2) A relation for that road's notional route, that contains the relation above *plus* the (usually obvious) connecting bits that give you a single, long distance route from A to B. Different people will find the two options useful. Or am I missing something here? Andrew signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] basic relations
Hi I haven't begun using relations yet; I just decided to start doing so and have confused myself about a very basic use case. Can some one tell me what tags they they might[1] use to state that a group of non-contiguous buildings belong to a particular university or hospital? Thanks Graham [1] I understand that usages like this really haven't settled down yet, all I'm looking for is something that sounds logical and is in keeping with the general spirit of relations, I realise I may have to edit it later. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Voting
Frederik Ramm schrieb: I've been critcised for not suggesting an alternative. So here's my suggestion: * [...] Okay, slowly I realize that I took all this for granted while you didn't. While I'm not yet certain wether you seriously propose such a task force it's no good idea I believe. That would inevitably become a closed group at that others would point their fingers saying It's all their fault. In contrast our current system is truly open: Anybody can drop by in the wiki write one or two lines to a proposal and leave again. In this discussion, I find myself on their side: Our project is so open, and I have the impression that you are trying to *reduce* that openness by setting up a voting process. I have the suspicion that in the end you want a project where new tags aren't even allowed unless they underwent discussion and voting. And that's where my fierce opposition comes from. Naturally I can only speak for myself but I'm almost certain this applies to others as well: I don't want to allow or disallow anything! When I spent time with proposals I consider that a service to others. Those others are free to chose wether they want to use my service of neatly structured and described tags or not. I'm a mechanical engineer and see on a daily basis how industrial norms like ISO, DIN, etc. make things easier by allowing you to concentrate on your core business rather than worrying if other people will now what I mean by a M6x40 bolt. Take ISO 5457 for example: You are free to use whatever paperformat you like but isn't it also comfortable to walk into any shop and ask for DIN A4 paper sheets, that every printer and every desktop application will know what you mean without the need to say that it's a piece of paper with the dimensions 210x297mm? Even when there are several competing norms that's fine as long each one clearly defines it's meaning and one knows which one applies. There are of course laws and alike which enforce people to meet such norms but it's false to blame the resulting hassle on those who created the norm. So we should try to scatter the illusion that tags as they can be found in the wiki are obligatory in any kind. I'll be glad to do so when you point me to such places. regards, Sven ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Relations not always brilliant
Sven Grüner wrote: I've recently created a sandbox going the whole way from Planet Earth to Some Road all in nested relations. You can browse it here: http://osm.schunterscouts.de/relation-browser.php (the URL accepts other relations as well, comments welcome) You do know that sometimes people need to download all entities of a relation when they download an area with a single node in it? I wouldn't want to download all elements of earth when I download my neighbourhood block. :-) How do you handle this problem? spaetz ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM flyer now in LaTeX, easy to translate
Great! I and my friend in Japan are interested in translating flyer but original is not easy to do. Thanks a lot for your effort! Hiroshi On 4/6/08, Juan Lucas Dominguez Rubio [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, As a LaTeX and OSM lover, I had to make this OSM flyer in LaTeX, derived from Andy Robinson's English version of Frederik Ramm's original in German (thank you). Here it is in Spanish: http://www.prodevelop.es/descarga/osm/flyer/osm_flyer_spanish.pdf This is all you need to generate it yourself: http://www.prodevelop.es/descarga/osm/flyer/osm_flyer_latex.zip Just unzip and compile osm_flyer.tex with pdflatex. You can translate the file osm_flyer.tex into your language (find the tag START TRANSLATING HERE) with your favorite text editor, and edit the images you don't like (especially bground2.jpg). If you don't know LaTeX, you can send me the text in your language and I will generate the PDF for you. I have used a special LaTeX package for leaflets, so I guess the dotted lines and the margins are ok. Cheers! Lucas -- Sent from Gmail for mobile | mobile.google.com HIroshi Miura NTT DATA Corp. and IPA OSS center （株）NTTデータ /（独）情報処理推進機構 三浦広志 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Relations not always brilliant
On Tue, Apr 08, 2008 at 02:25:11PM +0100, Steve Hill wrote: Which bits you use to connect the disjointed sections are a rather arbitrary decision - should OSM be making such decisions? I mean, there is no officially documented this is how you get between these sections route so we would be making a route up arbitrarilly. Sure, for some stuff it might be obvious, but for a lot of stuff it isn't. Take the A31, for example - it joins the M3 near Winchester but then reappears on the westerly end of the M27. You might say that the M3 and M27 is obviously the missing link and add that to the A31 relation, but that would be completely unsuitable for cyclists. This really isn't the job for submitters, this is the job for a route planner program - submitters are supposed to be recording data, not making relatively arbitrary decisions about which routes people should take. Okay, I take your point. In Ireland I'm not aware of any such extreme examples (except the N3), with most disjoins being only a few hundred metres at most. In that case, would the use of highway relations be restricted to such cases where there is one *official* route, with differing refs? For example, National Primary Road 7 in Ireland is the entire road from Dublin to Limerick. It's called the N7, but for those portions where it's a motorway, it's the M7. In this case ref=M7;N7 would only be appropriate for the motorway if N7 was guaranteed not to appear. :) Andrew signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-dev] [OSM-talk] GSoC applications are in! MENTORS wanted
Hi, What? Geonames allows you to move and edit data which is overlaid onto a Google Map. Go to http://www.geonames.org/maps/cities.html and click on a city. You're right, there's a move link there which I had overlooked. Nonetheless, apart from the geo location of the city I get tons of other info that could not possibly come from Google... I understand a certain desire to say we are cooler than other mapping project but we should make an attempt to do so without slander. As you know there are ways and tools to create OSM data that is derived from Google Earth or Google Maps, Like what? No-one should be entering data into OSM that is derived from a proprietary source. I know that nobody should, and I won't give you a run-down of ways for people to do it nonetheless. I'm just saying that if someone was bent on demonstrating how easy Google data could find its way into OSM, then he wouldn't have to work very hard. Bye Frederik ___ legal-talk mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Maplint warnings
Steve Hill steve at nexusuk.org writes: Maplint seems to be throwing up not-in-map_features warnings about stuff that is on the Map Features page. For example: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.68309lon=-3.91837zoom=15layers=0BTT And how about building=anything, Maplint is warning about those all as well. -Jukka Rahkonen- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Relations not always brilliant
On Tue, 8 Apr 2008, Andrew McCarthy wrote: In that case, would the use of highway relations be restricted to such cases where there is one *official* route, with differing refs? Official by whose authority? I am not aware of the UK highways agency publishing official routes for these gaps (although for other countries there may be some kind of official route - a relation with the route= tag may be a reasonable approach if there really is something official). For example, National Primary Road 7 in Ireland is the entire road from Dublin to Limerick. It's called the N7, but for those portions where it's a motorway, it's the M7. In this case ref=M7;N7 would only be appropriate for the motorway if N7 was guaranteed not to appear. Is the M7 officially also the N7 though, or are you just making a decision based on a subjective obviousness criteria? - Steve xmpp:[EMAIL PROTECTED] sip:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.nexusuk.org/ Servatis a periculum, servatis a maleficum - Whisper, Evanescence ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Talk-GB] Birmingham mapping party - Radio Interview today
Steve Chilton wrote: http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/aod/wm.shtml to listen live Or follow RichardF's live transcripts in IRC interspersed with commentary. Thanks Richard :-). spaetz ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Relations not always brilliant
Sebastian Spaeth schrieb: You do know that sometimes people need to download all entities of a relation when they download an area with a single node in it? I wouldn't want to download all elements of earth when I download my neighbourhood block. :-) How do you handle this problem? Well, currently the API only returns direct members, so do our editors as well as my script. For Earth that would only be the few continents and a couple of oceans, totally bearable. When you start to put all Autobahnen in the Germany-relation (since they are run and owned by the national governemnt) you will obviously run into trouble just when downloading direct members. But this could be solved by only making the way-relation as proposed in: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Relations/Proposed/Collected_Ways That would result in about 100-200 direct members (instead of thousands of ways with millions of nodes), which is okay again. Alternatively one could request special member-groups of a relation by their role. I.e. give me all states of Germany and the capital but not the Autobahnen, national buildings, etc. This is of course still an issue but I believe that solutions will occur shortly after we run into serious trouble like always in OSM. And it will be a while till relations are so well used to cause bandwith-problems. regards, Sven ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Relations not always brilliant
On Tue, 8 Apr 2008, Andrew McCarthy wrote: It's specified in the Statutory Instrument issued by the Government. I've no idea if we're unique on this, but it's a big planet :) Sounds like ref=M7;N7 is the correct thing to do in this case then. As for what the renderers should do, that's another question (there could be arguments for showing an M7 label with N7 under it in smaller type, etc. but so long as the data is in the database in a useful form, that can all be worked out later). - Steve xmpp:[EMAIL PROTECTED] sip:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.nexusuk.org/ Servatis a periculum, servatis a maleficum - Whisper, Evanescence ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapnik PointSymbolizer question
Well, that works with a TextSymbolizer, but I can't get it working with a PointSymbolizer. Steven Steve Chilton schreef: Never had occasion to do that but sure it is possible. To move the TextSymboliser something like this moves label 8 pixels above the symbol: Rule MaxScaleDenominator5/MaxScaleDenominator MinScaleDenominator25000/MinScaleDenominator Filter[railway]='station'/Filter TextSymbolizer name=name face_name=DejaVu Sans Bold size=9 fill=#000 dy=-8 halo_radius=1 wrap_width=0/ /Rule Use of similar dy=xx command (or dx=+/- to move in horizontal direction) would work in PointSymbolizer command Cheers STEVE -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Steven te Brinke Sent: Mon 4/7/2008 8:33 PM To: talk@openstreetmap.org Cc: Subject: [OSM-talk] Mapnik PointSymbolizer question Hello, Does anyone know if it is possible in Mapnik to place a PointSymbolizer at some offset from the point instead of centering the image above the point. Thanks, Steven ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Talk-GB] Birmingham mapping party - Radio Interview today
Steve Chilton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sent: 08 April 2008 2:38 PM To: Steve Chilton; Andy Robinson (blackadder); [EMAIL PROTECTED]; talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: RE: [OSM-talk] [Talk-GB] Birmingham mapping party - Radio Interview today Nice one Andy! Came across really well. Hope we get some local takeup for the weekend mapping party. After his reference to the QI item in lead-up I couldn't help think of the QI moment when Stephen Fry asked panel to say what map of the UK would cost. Alan Davies answered £4-99, to which Fry responded something on lines of Close. Well, I meant the whole OS Mastermap database of UK, which would co(a)st you something like 4.99 million pounds. Cheers Steve, It was fun. Matthew Gates kindly did a recording, available here for those that missed the live feed. http://porpoisehead.net/hi/?q=node/35 Cheers Andy Cheers STEVE Steve Chilton, Learning Support Fellow Learning and Technical Support Unit Manager School of Health and Social Sciences Middlesex University phone/fax: 020 8411 5355 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.mdx.ac.uk/schools/hssc/staff/profiles/technical/chiltons.asp Chair of the Society of Cartographers: http://www.soc.org.uk/ SoC conference 2008: http://www.abdn.ac.uk/cartographers08/ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:talk- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steve Chilton Sent: 08 April 2008 13:54 To: Andy Robinson (blackadder); [EMAIL PROTECTED]; talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] [Talk-GB] Birmingham mapping party - Radio Interview today Definitely happening - being trailered right now, by a guy who sounds as though he knows nothing! Steve Chilton, Learning Support Fellow Learning and Technical Support Unit Manager School of Health and Social Sciences Middlesex University phone/fax: 020 8411 5355 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.mdx.ac.uk/schools/hssc/staff/profiles/technical/chiltons.asp Chair of the Society of Cartographers: http://www.soc.org.uk/ SoC conference 2008: http://www.abdn.ac.uk/cartographers08/ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andy Robinson (blackadder) Sent: 08 April 2008 10:29 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: [Talk-GB] Birmingham mapping party - Radio Interview today For those interested I'm expecting to go into BBC WM local radio to do a live interview at 14:10ish BST today. Part of the Les Ross show. http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/aod/wm.shtml to listen live Cheers Andy ___ Talk-GB mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-gb ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Relations not always brilliant
Robert (Jamie) Munro wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Steve Hill wrote: | Putting all of the separate bits of the UK's M11 in a single relation | sounds about as silly as putting all the roads in the UK called Station | Road in a single relation - they are separate roads and there is no good | reason to treat them in any other way. Seriously, you can't see a difference between the M11, and the collection of roads called High Street, all over the UK and even the world? You don't think that the second is just a bit more silly than the first? You don't think that searching for M11 should produce one result for a road that covers the whole country, and searching for high street should produce hundreds of separate results? This is EXACTLY the problem I'm trying to highlight! The CURRENT data produces hundreds of High Street's and a large quantity of them are duplicates. You can not produce a single set of 'High Street' objects, ADDED to which identifying the LOCATION of each 'High Street' is an even sillier exercise. This is why we need to agree a method of identifying unique versions of an object such as 'High Street', 'Evesham', 'Worcestershire', 'England'. And then we can find High Street, Evesham from all of the other High Streets, and HOPEFULLY identify all of the segments that make it up. The missing piece of the jigsaw is a means if linking all of the High Street, Evesham segments into one object, so that a search only produces ONE result. Problems like the A11 using part of the A14 as it's route North of Cambridge are just a matter of deciding if the A11-South is a separate road to the A11-North. Directions would have to say - Turn onto A14 - Take slip road signposted A11 - So in this instance they are two separate roads, but other uses of the road data MAY require that just a single record of A11 is returned. It is THAT relationship management that is missing. Although the A11 passes through Cambridgeshire, Suffolk and Norfolk, and sensibly each section should be able to provide that information so that 'Pass into Suffolk or Norfolk' could be identified. The hierarchy is never going to be simple, but some means of adding sensible data IS required? -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://home.lsces.co.uk/lsces/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://home.lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk// Firebird - http://www.firebirdsql.org/index.php ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Voting
Sven Grüner wrote: Frederik Ramm schrieb: I've been critcised for not suggesting an alternative. So here's my suggestion: * [...] Okay, slowly I realize that I took all this for granted while you didn't. While I'm not yet certain wether you seriously propose such a task force it's no good idea I believe. That would inevitably become a closed group at that others would point their fingers saying It's all their fault. In contrast our current system is truly open: Anybody can drop by in the wiki write one or two lines to a proposal and leave again. In this discussion, I find myself on their side: Our project is so open, and I have the impression that you are trying to *reduce* that openness by setting up a voting process. I have the suspicion that in the end you want a project where new tags aren't even allowed unless they underwent discussion and voting. And that's where my fierce opposition comes from. Naturally I can only speak for myself but I'm almost certain this applies to others as well: I don't want to allow or disallow anything! When I spent time with proposals I consider that a service to others. Those others are free to chose wether they want to use my service of neatly structured and described tags or not. I'm a mechanical engineer and see on a daily basis how industrial norms like ISO, DIN, etc. make things easier by allowing you to concentrate on your core business rather than worrying if other people will now what I mean by a M6x40 bolt. Take ISO 5457 for example: You are free to use whatever paperformat you like but isn't it also comfortable to walk into any shop and ask for DIN A4 paper sheets, that every printer and every desktop application will know what you mean without the need to say that it's a piece of paper with the dimensions 210x297mm? Even when there are several competing norms that's fine as long each one clearly defines it's meaning and one knows which one applies. There are of course laws and alike which enforce people to meet such norms but it's false to blame the resulting hassle on those who created the norm. So we should try to scatter the illusion that tags as they can be found in the wiki are obligatory in any kind. I'll be glad to do so when you point me to such places. regards, Sven +1 Paul. -- Paul Hurley http://www.paulhurley.co.uk/ The knack of flying is learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss. Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Relations not always brilliant
On 08/04/2008 19:02, Lester Caine wrote: You don't think that searching for M11 should produce one result for a road that covers the whole country, and searching for high street should produce hundreds of separate results? This is EXACTLY the problem I'm trying to highlight! The CURRENT data produces hundreds of High Street's and a large quantity of them are duplicates. You can not produce a single set of 'High Street' objects, ADDED to which identifying the LOCATION of each 'High Street' is an even sillier exercise. This is why we need to agree a method of identifying unique versions of an object such as 'High Street', 'Evesham', 'Worcestershire', 'England'. And then we can find High Street, Evesham from all of the other High Streets, and HOPEFULLY identify all of the segments that make it up. The missing piece of the jigsaw is a means if linking all of the High Street, Evesham segments into one object, so that a search only produces ONE result. Well, this is partly the problem the Name Finder sets out to solve. You will notice that if you search for High Street, Ely (the one in Evesham, if there is one, isn't mapped, so I've changed the example) you don't get several results which are the component ways of that particular High Street (assuming there is more than one - I've not looked), but you do get other nearby High Streets. It would be easier to do this if the components were related, but it isn't an insoluble problem if they aren't. You don't get duplicates with the name finder for this kind of street. However, you *do* get *useful* duplicates for the M11. Not every single little piece, but at useful intervals along it. So if you say M11 near Bishops Stortford you get one bit, the nearest to the town (and then a few more successively further away), and M11 near Saffron Walden gets you a different bit. Because it is such a long road, as you say pointing at one point only on it is not helpful. So I don't. But pointing at every artificially divided up part of a road isn't helpful either. So I don't. David (PS I notice something's gone wrong with the sorting in the name finder - I'll look into that). ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapnik: amenity=bus_station
graham wrote: I've been doing the opposite, and have only recently realised that your way is the way I was supposed to do it.. I have mapped quite a few bus stops where the bus stop is on a pedestrian island and I want to show not only 'side of road' but also a fairly exact physical position. I'd be reluctant to give that up to plonk all my bus stops in the middle of the road... [...] I've always used a node in the way to represent a bus stop. This works fine when there's a stop on each side of the road. Otherwise I've made use of the bus_direction=(N|S|E|W) tag (from http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Buses ) on the node to indicate in which direction the stop is for, which I believe should work fairly well. Then the renderers or alike can use that to move them off a bit to the side when displayed if wanted. /Niclas Andersson [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Steve xmpp:[EMAIL PROTECTED] sip:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.nexusuk.org/ Servatis a periculum, servatis a maleficum - Whisper, Evanescence ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] basic relations
On Tuesday 08 April 2008 15:00:57 graham wrote: I haven't begun using relations yet; I just decided to start doing so and have confused myself about a very basic use case. Can some one tell me what tags they they might[1] use to state that a group of non-contiguous buildings belong to a particular university or hospital? There doesn't seem to be a proposal for this. (Only for universities/hospitals on a single campus.) So you have to make up your own value to put in the type tag (or don't use the type tag at all.) -- m.v.g., Cartinus ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapnik: amenity=bus_station
On Tuesday 08 April 2008 14:53:40 graham wrote: Steve Hill wrote: How are people tagging bus stops? I have been setting tagging nodes that are members of the way, which means they are part of the road they are on. Is this the right way to do it? It seems right since it unambiguously shows which road the stop is on, but it doesn't allow any indication as to which side of the road the stop is on. I've been doing the opposite, and have only recently realised that your way is the way I was supposed to do it.. There is no way you are supposed to do it. Both methods are equally valid. Both have their pros and cons. Up till now I used the node in the road method. But lately I have been thinking about how routing applications would use osm data. I doubt bus companies will be using osm to route their busses. But when routing for pedestrians, you will want to be able to reach the bus stops. Around here a lot of bus routes follow roads that are not accessible for pedestrians. The bus stop is then accessible e.g. from the back (from a parallel road/cycleway) or by a short section of sidewalk (from the nearest crossing). Since way-objects have no width you need to draw a piece of non-existing footway in the first case. The second case leads to splitting of the way into sections (foot=no for most of the road and no foot= tag for the section with the sidewalk. I haven't found an simple and easy way to tag all this. -- m.v.g., Cartinus ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Voting
On Mon, 2008-04-07 at 14:57 +0300, SteveC wrote: Like, er, electing President Bush, or Prime Minister Gordon Brown (no election) ? I'm a pedant, but you never vote for a Prime Minister. You vote for your local MP and the leader of the party with the most MPs gets to be Prime Minister. -- Bruce Cowan [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] JOSM: better rectangle drawing
Hi, I have created an experimental JOSM version with a feature that makes it easier to create proper rectangles (for people wanting to draw houses from aerial imagery etc.). Basically, you just draw one side of the rectangle and then extrude it, Google-Sketchup-like, to the desired width. Details are over on josm-dev. Any feedback is welcome, ideally on that list because talk has more than enough traffic already ;-) Here's the josm-dev post with the download URL and instructions: http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/josm-dev/2008-April/000807.html Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail [EMAIL PROTECTED] ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Voting
Frederik Ramm schrieb: Hi, Hmmm, you and some other guys effectively sabotaged voting several times. This is not the first time you use the word sabotage in this context. I think it's rather strong language; I have openly expressed my opinion that's all. I just use the wording that I think is appropriate for an IMHO absurd discussion. Did you noticed the side effect, that most of the discussion about the proposals almost stopped completely No I haven't noticed. Hmmm, because you don't seem to care/know what's happening in that area? I guess it's because summer's coming and people are out mapping. sabotaging an actually working voting process to more or less quickly find decisions about how to improve stuff Well I think what may have happened is that I shattered an illusion. It is just possible that people participating in the voting process were under the impression that their decisions are somehow more than recommendations, that they divide the OSM world into approved and not approved stuff and that they define what people will use or not use. I'm sorry, but this is YOUR illusion, not my point of view (and as far as I can tell none of the other voting participants). Maybe beside that the map features page in fact defines a lot how people actually map things (to the limit that this page still lacks a lot of stuff). I said that this is not the case, and maybe this has reduced motivation to participate in the process. But honestly, how can you ever believe that a process run by less than 0.1% of participants in the project can have any authority? Well, all those mappers who don't use the opportunity to present, discuss and defend their views here will simply have to live with our decision? Come on! Again, your expressing an illusion that you have about the voting process that just doesn't fit with reality. You obviously don't follow the dynamics of the proposal and voting stuff, but opposing it maybe because you just missinterpreting stuff and don't like the wording. The whole voting - at least to me - is: let's find a reasonable solution for this open point, so we can move on to the next. This has a lot more to do with rough consensus and running code than you seem to think. Regards, ULFL ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Talk-GB] Birmingham mapping party - Radio Interview today
Great interview! On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 6:32 PM, Andy Robinson (blackadder) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Steve Chilton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sent: 08 April 2008 2:38 PM To: Steve Chilton; Andy Robinson (blackadder); [EMAIL PROTECTED]; talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: RE: [OSM-talk] [Talk-GB] Birmingham mapping party - Radio Interview today Nice one Andy! Came across really well. Hope we get some local takeup for the weekend mapping party. After his reference to the QI item in lead-up I couldn't help think of the QI moment when Stephen Fry asked panel to say what map of the UK would cost. Alan Davies answered £4-99, to which Fry responded something on lines of Close. Well, I meant the whole OS Mastermap database of UK, which would co(a)st you something like 4.99 million pounds. Cheers Steve, It was fun. Matthew Gates kindly did a recording, available here for those that missed the live feed. http://porpoisehead.net/hi/?q=node/35 Cheers Andy Cheers STEVE Steve Chilton, Learning Support Fellow Learning and Technical Support Unit Manager School of Health and Social Sciences Middlesex University phone/fax: 020 8411 5355 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.mdx.ac.uk/schools/hssc/staff/profiles/technical/chiltons.asp Chair of the Society of Cartographers: http://www.soc.org.uk/ SoC conference 2008: http://www.abdn.ac.uk/cartographers08/ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:talk- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steve Chilton Sent: 08 April 2008 13:54 To: Andy Robinson (blackadder); [EMAIL PROTECTED]; talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] [Talk-GB] Birmingham mapping party - Radio Interview today Definitely happening - being trailered right now, by a guy who sounds as though he knows nothing! Steve Chilton, Learning Support Fellow Learning and Technical Support Unit Manager School of Health and Social Sciences Middlesex University phone/fax: 020 8411 5355 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.mdx.ac.uk/schools/hssc/staff/profiles/technical/chiltons.asp Chair of the Society of Cartographers: http://www.soc.org.uk/ SoC conference 2008: http://www.abdn.ac.uk/cartographers08/ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andy Robinson (blackadder) Sent: 08 April 2008 10:29 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: [Talk-GB] Birmingham mapping party - Radio Interview today For those interested I'm expecting to go into BBC WM local radio to do a live interview at 14:10ish BST today. Part of the Les Ross show. http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/aod/wm.shtml to listen live Cheers Andy ___ Talk-GB mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-gb ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk -- Nick Black http://www.blacksworld.net ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [Talk-de] Ways stapeln
Am Dienstag, 8. April 2008 06:31:13 schrieb Christoph Eckert: Moin, nachdem ich gerade Probleme habe, an die Daten von gestapelten ways ranzukommen kurz die Frage, ob es dazu ein Konzept gibt. Einer der typischen Fälle von Doppelnutzung ist z.B. die gemeinsame Nutzung von Schiene und Straße bei der Straßenbahn. Im konkreten Fall ist die Straßenbahn als elend langer Way über viele andere drübergelegt. man kann mit der mittleren Maustaste 'draufklickern. Ich weiß allerdings nicht, wie man jetzt selektieren kann. Egal welche Klickreihenfolge ich auch verwende, ich bekomme nichts selektiert. Vielleicht hast Du ja mehr Glück :) . Beste Grüße, ce Mittlere Maustaste gedrückt halten, STRG drücken, mM loslassen, mir rechter Maustaste Weg auswählen. (Mann kingt das kompliziert...;) ) Wenn man zwei derartige Wege hat, die man verbinden möchte, dann wird's nochmal etwas komplizierter: Die STRG-Taste bewirkt da nämlich dass unselektiert wird; man müsste sie also gleichzeitig gedrückt und ungedrückt halten... Da das nicht geht muss man folgendes machen: Die beiden Wege einzeln auswählen und beiden einen Was-Auch-Immer-Tag vergeben, beispielsweise yyy=xxx. Danach via Suche die beiden suchen lassen und des Was-Auch-Immer-Tag wieder löschen. Grüßle, Berni -- -- Schau doch mal wieder bei CrocoPuzzle rein. (www.croco-puzzle.com) ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-de
[Talk-de] Brücken/Node-Problem
Hallole, Ich habe gerade festgestellt, dass Osmarender bei nodes in Schienen, die noch anderweitig verwendet werden, ein Unbeschrankter Bahnübergangszeichen platziert, auch wenn dort kein level_crossing angegeben ist, weil es sich bei der querenden Straße um eine Brücke handelt. Jetzt wird man mich sicherlich fragen wollen, warum ich da einen node platziert habe; ich benötige diesen für das angrenzende landuse=industry. Siehe http://www.informationfreeway.org/?lat=51.74018092183297lon=7.190401827132128zoom=17layers=B000F000F Grüßle, Berni -- -- Schau doch mal wieder bei CrocoPuzzle rein. (www.croco-puzzle.com) ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Winkeltool, Talk-de Digest, Vol 21, Issue 28
OK, OK, da bin ich ja ein bisschen übers Ziel hinausgeschossen. Ich hatte ein bisschen die Befürchtung, dass aus dem Winkeltool ein simples Rechteck-Tool wird, aber die Mails von Qbert und Frederik haben mich in die Realität zurückgeholt ;-) Ich habe natürlich nichts dagegen, wenn wir anfangen, die Primitives über Node, Line und Area hinaus zu erweitern um Rechteck, n-Eck, Kreis (und -bogen) bis hin zu Dodecaedern (später mal für Raumstationen ;-), unter der von Frederik beschriebenen Prämisse, dass es eine Zusatzinformation wäre, damit man auch weiterhin mit anderer als spezieller OSM-Software die Daten weiterverarbeiten kann. Martin Am 08.04.08 schrieb qbert biker [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hallo, Nachdem die Diskussion hinsichtlich der rechten Winkel sich gerade ein bisschen sehr mathematisch-schematisch Richtung Rechteck / Geometrieprimitiven entwickelt Das war eine Idee, die mir unabhängig von deinem Vorschlag eingefallen ist und der auch mehr die Speicherung von kleinen Rechtecken betrifft als deren Erstellung. Ein Winkeltool halte ich unabhängig davon natürlich schon für überaus nützlich. - funktioniert für alle Winkel (und alle möglichen Gebäudekonfigurationen), für zusammengesetzte Gebäude, für Gebäude /Objekte, die nur an manchen Ecken rechte (bzw. bestimmte andere) Winkel haben, funktioniert für Dreiecke, Rechtecke, Fünfecke, Hexagone, Octogone, Also wenn mein Vorschlag schon mathematisch vorbelastet war, ists der erst recht ;) Denke mal die wenigsten werden sich mit Konstruktionen befassen, die über die 90Grad rausgehen, aber wenn man schon mit Winkeln anfängt ist es natürlich konsequent die die es können, damit so richtig konstruieren zu können. - funktioniert intuitiv (Aussenkanten sind erfassbar, begreifbar), ist anhand von Luftbildern intuitiv umzusetzen (im Gegensatz zum kopflastigen Rechtecksmittelpunkt, der sich in der Natur nicht findet, bzw. bei Gebäuden nicht zugänglich/erfassbar ist.) Bei (kleinen) Rechtecken (für die die Verallgemeinerung gedacht war) funktioniert das sehr intuitiv, indem man die Ecken über Kreuz verbindet. Ich finde es einfach unpraktisch und zeitraubend, wenn ich jedes poplige Häuschen mit 4 x 90 Grad konstruieren soll, wenn mir ein Automat das abnehmen kann, der dazu noch eine nachvollziehbare konkrete Beschreibung liefert (das _ist_ ein Rechteck und sieht nicht nur so aus). - funktioniert mit der derzeitigen Datenbank, ist nahtlos ergänzbar, erfordert keine Änderungen Das gilt für die Attribute der Node auch - ich hoffe ich komme bald dazu, das auszuprobieren. Ansich brauch ich dazu keine Fremdhilfe, weil ja jeder beliebige Attribute zu einer Node eintragen kann. Ich fände es nur praktisch, wenn auch noch andere von den Vorteilen profitieren könnten. Ansonsten: Uneingschränkte Zustimmung zu deinem Winkeltool. -- GMX startet ShortView.de. Hier findest Du Leute mit Deinen Interessen! Jetzt dabei sein: http://www.shortview.de/[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- ___ | Martin Koppenhoefer Via Bixio, 29 / Int. 20 00185 Roma Italia 41°53.664', 012°30.549' tel1: +39 06.916508070 tel2: +49 30 868708638 mobil: +39 389 6488991 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.koppenhoefer.com Hinweis: Diese Nachricht wurde manuell erstellt. Wir bemühen uns um fehlerfreie Korrespondenz, dennoch kann es in Ausnahmefällen vorkommen, dass bei der manuellen Übertragung von Informationen in elektronische Medien die übertragenen Informationen Fehler aufweisen. Wir bitten Sie, dies zu entschuldigen. ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Bruecken/Node-Problem
Ich habe gerade festgestellt, dass Osmarender bei nodes in Schienen, die noch anderweitig verwendet werden, ein Unbeschrankter Bahn?bergangszeichen platziert, auch wenn dort kein level_crossing angegeben ist, weil es sich bei der querenden Stra?e um eine Br?cke handelt. Jetzt wird man mich sicherlich fragen wollen, warum ich da einen node platziert habe; Nein... ich frage mich vielmehr, woher die Renderer wissen sollen, dass dort eine Bruecke ist. Potlatch zeigt weder ein Bruecken-Tag an geschweige denn verschiedene Layer. Ich wuerde es an Deiner Stelle mal damit versuchen. Worst case: wenn die Bruecke einen Node in der Mitte hat, koennte ein Renderer zwei Bruecken daraus machen. Dann solltest Du versuchen, eine gesonderten Node fuer die Industrie-Flaeche zu setzen, der von den Ways nicht mitbenutzt wird. Paul ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Talk-de Digest, Vol 21, Issue 13
Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: Message: 9 Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2008 01:05:39 +0200 From: Stefan Hirschmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Talk-de] darf man selbstgemachte google-earth pfade To: Openstreetmap allgemeines in Deutsch talk-de@openstreetmap.org Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15; format=flowed Ich glaube Orthofotos machen zu lassen, kostet nur 300 Euro (hab mal vor kurzen ein Angebot gelesen). MfG Stefan 300 EUR pro Quadratmeter, Hektar, Quadratkilometer? Ich finde das entsprechende Angebot im Moment leider nicht, dafür zwei andere: http://www.geopic.at/Preise/tabid/54/Default.aspx http://www.flugbilder.at/index.html Dies sollte einen ungefähren Überblick über die Kosten liefern. Ist mir persönlich aber immer noch zu teuer. MfG Stefan ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Ways stapeln
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Sven Grüner schrieb: Ich fänds am besten, wenn beim Klicken auf einen solchen Multiway gar nichts selektiert wird sondern automatisch die Auswahl erscheint, wo man sich dann entscheiden kann. So kenne ich das aus CAD-Programmen. +1 - -- Dirk-Lüder Deelkar Kreie Bremen - 53.0952°N 8.8652°E -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFH+5fMFUbODdpRVDwRAoWXAKCShmj3oisP0piRurPDF+v1ek27SQCdHY0m 1ChEml1RG0jEjilhjpZjlqw= =+N/+ -END PGP SIGNATURE- smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Bruecken/Node-Problem
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Bernhard Seckinger schrieb: Nein... ich frage mich vielmehr, woher die Renderer wissen sollen, dass dort eine Bruecke ist. Potlatch zeigt weder ein Bruecken-Tag an geschweige denn verschiedene Layer. Ich wuerde es an Deiner Stelle mal damit versuchen. ok, dass mit der Brücke hab' ich vergessen; aber layer=1 ist gesetzt. Und woher der Renderer das wissen soll? Am nicht vorhandenen level_crossing natürlich. Durch das Setzen eines gemeinsamen Nodes hast du nunmal eine Verbindung zwischen Straße und Bahngleisen hergestellt. Wenn zwei sich kreuzende Straßen eine Node teilen, hast du auch eine Kreuzung produziert. Hmm. Ja und nein. Hängt natürlich ganz davon ab, wie man das interpretiert... Durch die unterschiedlichen Layer-Tags ist's ja im Grunde genommen klar, dass hier keine Verbindung besteht; aber ich sehe schon, dass man das nicht so ohne weiteres annehmen kann; am Ende einer Brücke hat man ja auch einen Sprung im layer und trotzdem eine Verbindung. Im Gegensatz zu Herkömmlichen GIS systemen benutzt OSM Topologie, wenn du also einen gemeinsamen Node hast, bedeutet dies, dass die Features dort auch verbunden sind, sonst wär's z.B. unmöglich innerhalb eines Straßenverlaufs das Layer zu wechseln. Layer-infos sind also nur dafür da die Räumliche Ordnung von sich ohne gemeinsamen Node kreuzenden Ways festzulegen. - -- Dirk-Lüder Deelkar Kreie Bremen - 53.0952°N 8.8652°E -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFH+5lKFUbODdpRVDwRAuENAJ9lpAD9O9/Iw5T7L+LLRPGfP9GBMQCgkZLA 7LnJtWCTOIY6vPLD0tfzu24= =qZl6 -END PGP SIGNATURE- smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] JOSM - Richtungspfeile
Am Dienstag, 8. April 2008 schrieb BroadwayLamb: ich bin etwas irritiert. Was wurde denn da jetzt gefixt. Egal welche Einstellung ich nehme, ich sehe im Mappaint-Modus keine Richtungspfeile mehr. Es ändert sich zwar die Farbe, wenn ein Element angeklickt wird, aber der aktive Way wird nicht mehr als Wireframe angezeigt. Damit ist es praktisch unmöglich, die Richtung von Einbahnstraßen zu erkennen bzw. zu ändern. Habe ich etwas übersehen? Mh. Du hast mappaint.use_real_width=true, nicht wahr? Der Punkt ist, dass hier keine Richtungspfeile angezeigt werden. - abgesehen zumindest von dem Ausgewählten Weg, der wird aber auch nicht mit real_width angezeigt. Und das habe ich aus versehen vernachlässigt. Als Quickfix kannst du also z. B. mappaint.use_real_width auf false setzen. Ab [599] - also auch im morgigen build sollten dann auf jeden Fall Richtungspfeile für den selektierten Weg angezeigt werden. Grüße, Rapha ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Bruecken/Node-Problem
Ich hab' jetzt den Gleisen einen eigenen Node spendiert; bin aber damit nicht gl?cklich. Ich habe mir erlaubt, mal daran herumzupfuschen :) Die Bruecke überspannt jetzt die Gleise in einem Stueck, und siehe da - der eigene Node ist nun ploetzlich unumgaenglich. Der Schnittpunkt ist weg, und die Anzahl der Nodes ist auf ein Minumum reduziert. Ich hoffe, das gefaellt Dir so besser. Paul ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-de
[Talk-de] http://www.openrouteservice.org
Hallo, ich wollte der Community mitteilen, dass ich eine neue Website mit einer OSM-Routing-Anwendung für ganz Deutschland entwickle. Sie ist gerade als erste Version online gegangen. Die neue Website lautet http://www.openrouteservice.org Das Besondere ist, dass OSM Daten für das Routing verwendet werden und ein offener internationaler Standard: die Open Location Services Route Service Spezifiaktion des Open Geospatial Consortiums (OGC). Zur Zeit sieht man auf der Webseite eine erste Version einer mögl. Benutzeroberfläche. Aber die Idee ist, dass der Service zukünftig tatsächlich als OGC Web Service per standardisiertem OpenLS XML-Request genutzt werden kann - damit kann der Dienst leicht und interoperabel in eigene Anwendungen eingebaut werden. Bsp. und Erläuterungen befinden sich schon tlw. in unseren Publikationen: siehe Info! Die Karten werden zudem über einen unserer OGC Web Map Services (WMS) angezeigt. Kartenobjekte könne per GetFeatureInfo-Request über die OSM Daten abgefragt werden. Ausserdem liegen die Daten auch in einem WFS (Web Feature Service) und können somit als GML über das OGC Filter Encoding heruntergeladen werden (falls jemand Interesse hat?). Aber da der Server nochmal umzieht wird die URL erst später veröffentlicht ... ;-) D.h. in Zukunft wird der WMS, WFS und RS (Route Service) öffentlich zugänglich sein. Die Daten werden z.Zt. jede Woche entspreched der Geofabrik Daten aktualsiert (Danke dafür!). Allerdings werden auch andere Länder integriert (Österreich/Schweiz ?), sobald die erste Version einigermaßen steht Da wir schon eine Reihe weiterer OpenLS Dienste implementiert haben, werden in Zukunft noch weitere Funktionalitäten hinzu kommen, z.b. ein OGC-konformer Geocoder gemäß der OpenLS Location Utility Service Spezifikation mit OpenGeoDB und/oder OSM Daten ... Die Seite braucht noch etwas Content und Optimierung bei der Kartographie, außerdem muss bei so großen Datensätzen an der Performance im Routing-Algorithmus selbst gearbeitet werden, aber das ist in Arbeit - so please be patient - work in progress... Viele Grüße pascal ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] http://www.openrouteservice.org
Moin ich wollte der Community mitteilen, dass ich eine neue Website mit einer OSM-Routing-Anwendung für ganz Deutschland entwickle. Sie ist gerade als erste Version online gegangen. Die neue Website lautet http://www.openrouteservice.org Hybsch :-) Einbahnstraßen kann er ja, aber ansonsten fehlt es noch am nötigen Feingefühl bzgl. der Routenbenutzbarkeit... In der Karlsruher City geht es noch gnadenlos durch Fußgängerzonen und absolute gesperrte Straßen (access=no). Unterscheidung nach Auto/Rad/Fuß/... wäre auch nett, bei Gelegenheit... ;-) Gruß Heiko ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Linz
Hallo Linzer und Interessierte, Nachdem sich ein paar Interessierte für ein Treffen in der Gegen von Linz gefunden haben, gibt es nun unter http://www.doodle.ch/85z8bqyz6b3u4drc die Möglichkeit, über einen gemeinsamen Termin abzustimmen, damit auch möglichst viele teilnehmen können :-) Ich werde vor dem Treffen (wahrscheinlich Mo 21.04., da ich bis 20.04. in meinem Urlaub in Asien tracken werde ;-) ) hier auf der Liste den gewählten Termin und den Ort noch einmal ankündigen, sowie auf der Abstimmungsseite in einem Kommentar. Ich dachte an abends gegen 19 Uhr als Zeitpunkt für das Treffen. Ich hoffe auf rege Beteiligung! Viele Grüße, -- Holger Schoener ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-de
[Talk-de] Traveling Salesman für OSM-Routing mit O penLayers
Hallo Leute, ich habe vor das Routing von Traveling Salesman als Servlet bereitzustellen, das eine Polyline für OpenLayers und einen Array mit Fahr-Anweisungen liefert. Welchen der Routing-Algorithmen, welche Metriken (schnellste Route, kürzeste, ...) und welche Fahrzeug-Art (Auto, Fahrrad, Rollstuhl, Fußgänger,..) können optional übergeben werden. Ich mache auf jeden Fall eine Seite fertig, die einfach Start+Ziel-Adresse bekommt, wie man das halt als Endnutzer erwartet. Meine Frage aber: a) Was wäre in Bezug auf den dahinter stehenden Dienst für euch am praktischsten um ihn selber benutzten zu können? Start+Ziel(e) als NodeID/WayID, LatLon oder als Straßenadresse? b) Wer hat Erfahrung mit OpenLayers und kann mir mit der Webseite und der Einbindung des Dienstes helfen? Zur Karte: Selber kann ich wohl keine ganze Welt-Karte bereitstellen aber jeder kann den Dienst selber mit beliebigen Karten-Ausschnitten aufsetzen und ich stelle mindestens eine Test-Karte mit 1-3 vollständigen, größeren Orten oder gar einem ganzen Bundesland bereit. Zu den Straßen-Adressen: Da die wenigsten Orte bei uns Polygone für den Orts-Umriss haben läßt sich immer schlecht sagen, welche Straßen jetzt zu einem Ort gehören und welche zum Nachbarort. Postleitzahlen fehlen noch großflächig, werden also auf jeden Fall erstmal ignoriert. Das ganze Thema der Haus-Nummern wird nach dem langen Hin und Her im Wiki auf einem Brainstorming am 18ten erstmal besprochen. Die werden also erst später unterstützt. Zunächst nur Ort, Straße und optional Ortsteil (suburb). Marcus ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] http://www.openrouteservice.org
ok, danke für die info mit k=access v=no, war mir noch nicht aufgefallen. wird beim nächsten Update entsprechend im Route Service angepasst ... btw: es gibt zusätzlich noch einen erweiterten Routenplaner (Extended Routing Version!) auf der Website wo Ihr über die Toolbox AvoidAreas Gebiete angeben könnt durch die Eure Route NICHT verlaufen soll. Möchtet Ihr z.B. ein Gebiet bei Eurer Route vermeiden könnt Ihr es über das Tool angeben ... Anschließend wird eine optimale Route um das Gebiet herum berechnet. cheers pascal ps: Fussgänger-Routing wird der RS bald können ... ;-) Hybsch :-) Einbahnstra?en kann er ja, aber ansonsten fehlt es noch am n?tigen Feingef?hl bzgl. der Routenbenutzbarkeit... In der Karlsruher City geht es noch gnadenlos durch Fu?g?ngerzonen und absolute gesperrte Stra?en (access=no). Unterscheidung nach Auto/Rad/Fu?/... w?re auch nett, bei Gelegenheit... ;-) Gru? Heiko ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] http://www.openrouteservice.org
Pascal Neis wrote: Hallo, ich wollte der Community mitteilen, dass ich eine neue Website mit einer OSM-Routing-Anwendung für ganz Deutschland entwickle. Sie ist gerade als erste Version online gegangen. Die neue Website lautet http://www.openrouteservice.org Das Besondere ist, dass OSM Daten für das Routing verwendet werden und ein offener internationaler Standard: die Open Location Services Route Service Spezifiaktion des Open Geospatial Consortiums (OGC). [...] Hallo, eine echt tolle Sache soweit ich das sehe :). Eine Sache ist mir aufgefallen: Wenn man über Haupstraßen oder Überlandstraßen ohne Namen geroutet wird, kommt dabei sowas raus wie Fahren Sie links auf no name für 1.00 KM - ca. 1 Minute(n). Vielleicht sollte man hier einfach den Namen aus ref einsetzen wenn kein name Tag vorhanden ist (wie bei vielen Hauptstraßen in kleineren Orten). Gruß Frank ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-de
[Talk-de] Winkeldingens
Hallo, ich habe mal eine ganz einfache Test-Implementation fuer einen Geometriemodus im JOSM gemacht. Der kann erstmal nur rechte Winkel, und eigentlich hat er nur eine einzige neue Funktion, naemlich das Extrudieren. Ich weiss, das ist etwas total anderes als das, was wir hier diskutiert haben, aber wie ich woanders schrieb, wir koennen ja durchaus alle Moeglichkeiten (z.B. auch das numerische Eingeben eines Winkels) implementieren. Die vorliegende Implementation funktioniert wie folgt. Man zeichnet erst ganz normal eine Linie (Way mit 2 Nodes): oo Dann packt man die im Geometriemodus in der Mitte an und zieht sie zur einen oder anderen Seite (dabei ist nur die parallele Verschiebung moeglich, man kann also nichts schraeg machen); es entsteht ein Rechteck: oo || || oo Wenn man will, kann man nun weitere Nasen aus dem Rechteck herausziehen, indem man Nodes hineinsetzt: o---oo---o || || oo und dann das entstehende Teilsegment mit der Maus greift und bewegt: oo || o---oo---o || || oo und so weiter. Das ist alles sicherlich noch recht buggy und sehr experimentell. Insbesondere weiss ich nicht, ob wir bei einem eigenen Mode dafuer bleiben sollen (weil wir im Lauf der Zeit immer mehr Geometrie-Spezialfunktionen bekommen), oder ob man es besser in den normalen Zeichenmode einbauen sollte. Englisches Announcement auf josm-dev: http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/josm-dev/2008-April/000807.html Wer will und kann, bitte dort Verbesserungsvorschlaege einkippen, sonst auch hier. Download-URL: http://www.remote.org/frederik/tmp/josm-with-extrude.jar Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail [EMAIL PROTECTED] ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] http://www.openrouteservice.org
Moin ok, danke für die info mit k=access v=no, war mir noch nicht aufgefallen. wird beim nächsten Update entsprechend im Route Service angepasst ... Ich erwähne es vorsichtshalber mal: Ich meinte -) zum einen einen highway=service mit access=no und -) zum anderen auch Fußgängerzonen highway=pedestrian, die normalerweise kein allgemeines access=irgendwas haben, sondern wo man einfach weiß, ;-) dass Autos da nicht durch sollen... (vereinzelt können sie bicylce=yes etc. haben) Über beides hat er fleißig drüber weg gerouted :-) Interessant wird es ja, wenn man das Ziel an eine Stelle setzt, die nur so erreicht werden kann. Da sollte das Autofahrer-Modul dann ins nächste Parkhaus führen und statt Sie haben Ihr Ziel erreicht dann Ihr Ziel liegt nun 5 min zu Fuß von hier :-) btw: es gibt zusätzlich noch einen erweiterten Routenplaner (Extended Routing Version!) auf der Website wo Ihr über die Toolbox AvoidAreas Gebiete angeben könnt durch die Eure Route NICHT verlaufen soll. Möchtet Ihr z.B. ein Gebiet bei Eurer Route vermeiden könnt Ihr es über das Tool angeben ... Anschließend wird eine optimale Route um das Gebiet herum berechnet. Ich hätte dann gerne eine Version für Radfahrer, die mich um alle Radverkehrsanlagen wie benutzungspflichtige Radwege drumrumführt :-) Gruß Heiko ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Linz
Holger Schöner schrieb: Hallo Linzer und Interessierte, Nachdem sich ein paar Interessierte für ein Treffen in der Gegen von Linz gefunden haben, gibt es nun unter http://www.doodle.ch/85z8bqyz6b3u4drc die Möglichkeit, über einen gemeinsamen Termin abzustimmen, damit auch möglichst viele teilnehmen können :-) Voted. Ich werde vor dem Treffen (wahrscheinlich Mo 21.04., da ich bis 20.04. in meinem Urlaub in Asien tracken werde ;-) ) hier auf der Liste den gewählten Ich hoffe du kommst wieder wohl behalten zurück und wirst nicht in China für illegale Aktivitäten (eben Tracken) eingesperrt :-P Termin und den Ort noch einmal ankündigen, sowie auf der Abstimmungsseite in einem Kommentar. Ich dachte an abends gegen 19 Uhr als Zeitpunkt für das Treffen. Sollt sich ausgehn. Lg, Wolfgang. ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-es] trunk o primary , esa es la cuestión
On Tue, 8 Apr 2008, Philip Krohn wrote: Una clasificacion asi tiene dos ventajas: 1. definicion segun las definiciones de limites de velocidad, restricciones,... - asi no hay que definir todo por atributos 2. en el paso siguiente del proyecto OSM, la programacion de un sistema de navigacion, resultara mas facil calcular velocidades y hora de llegada. Así es como debería ser. Hay una página muy interesante aquí http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Highway_tag_usage que dice que el tag se debe poner por las características físicas de la carretera, no por quien la haya pagado o por quien la mantenga. Lo que deberíamos estar preguntándonos es cuántos tipos de carreteras distintas tenemos, no de cuántos colorines distintos son los hitos kilométricos, aunque si se encuentran correlaciones entre unas cosas y otras, bienvenidas sean. ___ Talk-es mailing list Talk-es@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-es
[Talk-es] Trunk o primary
Colorines a la inglesa y el wiki lleno de referencias a cómo son las infraestructuras in Inglaterra...o sea, por ahora OSM es un proyecto inglés en el que se tolera la presencia de extranjeros :-P quote who=Gari Araolaza En cualquier caso, lo suyo no sería que todos los países utilizaran los mismos códigos de colores para que cuando fueras en coche por Italia (por ejemplo) supieras siempre si te metes por una autovia o por una comarcal? Vale, toma este bote de titanlux rojo, y este billete de avión para inglaterra Admitida la coña! ;-) No tengo esperanzas en convertir a los ingleses; no hay más que ver que siguen conduciendo por la izquierda. Pero ya podían ponerse poco a poco definiendo unos estándares e ir cambiando poco a poco. Si hemos estandarizado el sistema de códigos postales, las denominaciones internacionales de rutas (E-80 y esos...), el Euro, Eurovision y Chiquilicuatre, un pasito más serían las carreteras, no? En fin, uno que sueña un poco. Gari http://www.prodevelop.es/ De: [EMAIL PROTECTED] en nombre de Martin (OpenGeoMap) Enviado el: mar 08/04/2008 15:35 Para: Discusi#243; n en Espa#241;ol de OpenStreetMap Asunto: Re: [Talk-es] Posible bombazo Si la madre del cordero está en que no se especifica qué pasa con las modificaciones, o con lo que se trace por encima de esos datos. Creo que se tercia una reunión con el IGN... Ivan es nuestro gran fichaje jeje 8-) winmail.dat___ Talk-es mailing list Talk-es@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-es
[OSM-talk-fr] Re : lettre aux collectivités l ocales
Très bonne idée que cette lettre de couverture, qui a beaucoup plus de chances d'être lue qu'un pavé détaillé, et par la même d'accrocher l'intérêt de l'élu et de l'inciter à prendre le temps de lire le dit pavé. Montrer du doigt n'est en effet pas opportun. Les élus sont en général très sensibles aux questions d'image et n'aiment pas être brusqués. Faire une publicité positive pour les communes ayant répondu favorablement sera porteur, montrer du doigt sera contre-productif, d'autant que un non n'est pas nécessairement définitif, quitte à attendre 6 ans. Moi ce qui me préoccupe est plus le devenir des données éventuellement fournies. Nous avons par exemple une photo Yahoo qui couvre de Montpellier à La Ciotat, mais la densité de routes tracées ne suit pas (Entendons nous bien, je ne critique pas ceux qui s'emploient au travail titanesque de cartographier un bon tiers de la PACA, mais on aurait peut-être pu rêver de plus de contributeurs locaux sur une zone aussi densément peuplée alors qu'aucun GPS n'est nécessaire). Si des données sont fournies, il faudrait que l'élu voit revenir dans un délai raisonnable (relativement à l'importance de la commune) une carte de sa commune idéalement imprimée en couleur sur un papier de fort grammage, avec l'espoir qu'il en parle avec ses confrères avec quelque chose à exhiber, ou qu'il l'affiche dans l'entrée de la mairie. C'est le genre de choses je crois susceptible de créer une dynamique positive. - Message d'origine De : Marc Quinton [EMAIL PROTECTED] À : talk-fr@openstreetmap.org Envoyé le : Mardi, 8 Avril 2008, 7h30mn 05s Objet : Re: [OSM-talk-fr] lettre aux collectivités locales 2008/4/6 Marc Quinton [EMAIL PROTECTED]: 2008/4/5 Marc Quinton [EMAIL PROTECTED]: comme promis, voici un premier jet de la lettre aux collectivités locales. voici l'adresse du document ; quand il sera prêt, il faudra le lier sur le Wiki. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Lettre_aux_elus pas très facile de trouver le juste mot sans se répéter tout en restant compréhensible mais convaincant. je viens d'ajouter une seconde lettre que je considère comme manuscrite à joindre à la première qui sera elle imprimée. Cette fois-ci, je pense qu'on touche le but. La lettre manuscrite est plus intime, le document imprimé est plus officiel, descriptif. J'espère que vous aurez compris mon intention. Je pense que je vais utiliser ces documents d'ici quelque temps, je vous ferai part de mon expérience; Il serait très bien de lister les collectivités répondant favorablement ou pas a ces demandes. Est-ce qu'on doit montrer de l'index, je ne pense pas, cela doit rester très cordial. ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-fr _ Envoyez avec Yahoo! Mail. Une boite mail plus intelligente http://mail.yahoo.fr ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-fr
[OSM-talk-fr] Question un peu out of topic.
Bonjour, Dans le but de visiter le nord de l'Algérie, je mappe la région entre Alger et Tizi-Ouzou qui est en très haute résolution (Je sais, c'est moins bien qu'avec un GPS, mais à défaut d'être sur place, ça le fait en attendant que je gps-log un peu pour vérifier les grands tracés). Ma question est: où peut on trouver des infos concernant les noms des rues des principales villes ainsi que les noms des voies rapides (libres de droits / compatibles OSM)? En attendant de trouver une source libre de droit, j'ai regardé (mais pas utilisé) des cartes michelin nord-Algérie (trop peu détaillée), google/Yahoo-map (carrément fausse et se contredisant). Bref, même si ces sources étaient légalement utilisable, leur contenu serait inutile pour OSM. Sur le web, on trouve quelque cartes, mais elles sont sous copyrights pour la plus part à priori. Olivier. Par contre, j'ai trouvé un plan d'alger de 1959. Est-ce utilisable (pour les old_names? http://www.pieds-noirs.org/geographie/planalger.htm En parlant de old_names, j'utilise le tag old_name pour indiquer l'ancien nom français des villes. Example: name=Draa Ben Kedda old_name=Mirabeau). Y a t'il un tag plus approprié? Par avance merci pour vos suggestion et désolé pour avoir parlé d'un topic hors de France. ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-fr
Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Question un peu out of topic.
le fr est la pour francophone , pas France :) donc pas de problemes :) Pour la carte que tu cites , tout est dis sur le site à mon avis ... Le 08/04/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] a écrit : Bonjour, Dans le but de visiter le nord de l'Algérie, je mappe la région entre Alger et Tizi-Ouzou qui est en très haute résolution (Je sais, c'est moins bien qu'avec un GPS, mais à défaut d'être sur place, ça le fait en attendant que je gps-log un peu pour vérifier les grands tracés). Ma question est: où peut on trouver des infos concernant les noms des rues des principales villes ainsi que les noms des voies rapides (libres de droits / compatibles OSM)? En attendant de trouver une source libre de droit, j'ai regardé (mais pas utilisé) des cartes michelin nord-Algérie (trop peu détaillée), google/Yahoo-map (carrément fausse et se contredisant). Bref, même si ces sources étaient légalement utilisable, leur contenu serait inutile pour OSM. Sur le web, on trouve quelque cartes, mais elles sont sous copyrights pour la plus part à priori. Olivier. Par contre, j'ai trouvé un plan d'alger de 1959. Est-ce utilisable (pour les old_names? http://www.pieds-noirs.org/geographie/planalger.htm En parlant de old_names, j'utilise le tag old_name pour indiquer l'ancien nom français des villes. Example: name=Draa Ben Kedda old_name=Mirabeau). Y a t'il un tag plus approprié? Par avance merci pour vos suggestion et désolé pour avoir parlé d'un topic hors de France. ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-fr ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-fr
Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Question un peu out of topic.
Le mieux est de demander à l'office de la ville, en demandant explicitement la licence de leur carte, ou la mairie. Pour la région Brestoire j'utilise les cartes BMO, qui ne sont pas sous licence et couvre Brest, Plougastel, etc... (toute la communauté urbaine de Brest) avec des cartes à jour de 2006. 2008/4/8 [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Bonjour, Dans le but de visiter le nord de l'Algérie, je mappe la région entre Alger et Tizi-Ouzou qui est en très haute résolution (Je sais, c'est moins bien qu'avec un GPS, mais à défaut d'être sur place, ça le fait en attendant que je gps-log un peu pour vérifier les grands tracés). Ma question est: où peut on trouver des infos concernant les noms des rues des principales villes ainsi que les noms des voies rapides (libres de droits / compatibles OSM)? En attendant de trouver une source libre de droit, j'ai regardé (mais pas utilisé) des cartes michelin nord-Algérie (trop peu détaillée), google/Yahoo-map (carrément fausse et se contredisant). Bref, même si ces sources étaient légalement utilisable, leur contenu serait inutile pour OSM. Sur le web, on trouve quelque cartes, mais elles sont sous copyrights pour la plus part à priori. Olivier. Par contre, j'ai trouvé un plan d'alger de 1959. Est-ce utilisable (pour les old_names? http://www.pieds-noirs.org/geographie/planalger.htm En parlant de old_names, j'utilise le tag old_name pour indiquer l'ancien nom français des villes. Example: name=Draa Ben Kedda old_name=Mirabeau). Y a t'il un tag plus approprié? Par avance merci pour vos suggestion et désolé pour avoir parlé d'un topic hors de France. ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-fr -- Steven Le Roux Jabber-ID : [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-fr
[Talk-GB] Southwest Surrey Mapping party wiki page and reminder
Hello everyone, Have updated the wiki page on the Southwest Surrey mapping party happening on April 19/20, including a 'cake' showing the areas to cover and a provisional schedule. For the moment I have suggested the Caffe Nero in Godalming as a meeting place, however if I hear of any free wifi venues (Jonathan - have you asked your friends about this?) the venue may change. See: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Southwest_Surrey_Mapping_Party Nick ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] [OSM-talk] Birmingham mapping party - Radio Interview today
Nice one Andy! Came across really well. Hope we get some local takeup for the weekend mapping party. After his reference to the QI item in lead-up I couldn't help think of the QI moment when Stephen Fry asked panel to say what map of the UK would cost. Alan Davies answered £4-99, to which Fry responded something on lines of Close. Well, I meant the whole OS Mastermap database of UK, which would co(a)st you something like 4.99 million pounds. Cheers STEVE Steve Chilton, Learning Support Fellow Learning and Technical Support Unit Manager School of Health and Social Sciences Middlesex University phone/fax: 020 8411 5355 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.mdx.ac.uk/schools/hssc/staff/profiles/technical/chiltons.asp Chair of the Society of Cartographers: http://www.soc.org.uk/ SoC conference 2008: http://www.abdn.ac.uk/cartographers08/ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steve Chilton Sent: 08 April 2008 13:54 To: Andy Robinson (blackadder); talk-gb@openstreetmap.org; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] [Talk-GB] Birmingham mapping party - Radio Interview today Definitely happening - being trailered right now, by a guy who sounds as though he knows nothing! Steve Chilton, Learning Support Fellow Learning and Technical Support Unit Manager School of Health and Social Sciences Middlesex University phone/fax: 020 8411 5355 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.mdx.ac.uk/schools/hssc/staff/profiles/technical/chiltons.asp Chair of the Society of Cartographers: http://www.soc.org.uk/ SoC conference 2008: http://www.abdn.ac.uk/cartographers08/ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andy Robinson (blackadder) Sent: 08 April 2008 10:29 To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Talk-GB] Birmingham mapping party - Radio Interview today For those interested I'm expecting to go into BBC WM local radio to do a live interview at 14:10ish BST today. Part of the Les Ross show. http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/aod/wm.shtml to listen live Cheers Andy ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-gb ___ talk mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-us] Fwd: Maps of State of Wisconsin, USA
It looks like a lot of useful information can be gleaned from this, especially county, township, park, and municipality borders. I'm not sure if, or how, the maps could be used directly without some sort of PDF overlay method in JOSM, or maybe a highly speciallized PDF - OSM converter. I haven't looked at the Wisconsin data, but I did do a little experimentation with PDFs. If the PDF contains a bitmap, you can extract it with any number of tools, but you're stuck with tracing. If it contains vector data, you can start to do intersting things. You can convert it to SVG using pstoedit. I experimented a little using pstoedit to create svg, and then started on a perl script to convert the SVG to an OSM file for JOSM. It could be made to work for small areas where map projection would not be a problem. But because it is just line drawing data, you lose all original metadata about the lines. If some other GIS-type data is available, I'd try to use that first. - Alan ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] braided streets
On 8 Apr 2008, at 10:13, Dave Hansen wrote: On Mon, 2008-04-07 at 23:55 -0700, Alan Millar wrote: The only thing I might do differently is not have the node shared between the railway and the streets. That's what I did for the TIGER upload: created two nodes at the same location. One for the street, one for the railway. Oh, that was on purpose? Oops. JOSM validator complains about them, so I've been merging them where I find them. Bah. My version doesn't do that. :) http://dev.openstreetmap.org/~daveh/josm/ Please don't merge them any more. A common node really means that they share a point in space and that the point is navigable. If you can turn a train on to the street, then it's OK to share the node. :) to sanity check - what I do at train crossings is that they share a node, with railway:crossing on the node or whatever it is, but one way is railway:rail and the other is highway:unclassified or whatever, and so any sane routing app wont route one type on to the other To me, it makes sense to combine them. If a car will have to drive over the tracks, then they should share the same node, it seems. I haven't really thought it through. How does it help to have them be separate nodes? I'm not sure it helps with much. It's just what I was asked to do long ago. :) -- Dave ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-us Best Steve ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-us
