Re: [Talk-transit] Railway route relations
Hi all, On Tue, Jul 7, 2009 at 10:43 AM, Peter Miller peter.mil...@itoworld.comwrote: I think the problem is that we are using the term Route for at least two different things. The more I think about it, the more I think this needs resolving (and well documenting)! The first question is what does route=railway denote, the infrastructure or the service pattern? To put it in concrete terms, there are two regular Eurostar services, London-Paris and London-Brussels. Should there be a railway=route relation for each of these services? What about the ocassional Disneyland and snow train services to the Alps? These services also travel along the lines known as High Speed 1 (from Folkestone to London) and the Channel Tunnel - should these also be tagged as separate relations? Frankie -- Frankie Roberto Experience Designer, Rattle 0114 2706977 http://www.rattlecentral.com ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
Re: [Talk-transit] Naptan import
Roger Slevin ro...@slevin.plus.com schrieb: Christoph Sorry - I now realise I shouldn't have referred to inactive localities ... this is something I can see on the editor system for NPTG, but the export only shows the active localities ... the records of the inactive ones are not included in the standard XML file. I would need to check whether it is possible to get an extract from NPTG which includes inactive records (or only comprises the inactive ones) - but that is a question I will only ask if someone can suggest that some useful purpose could be served by having access to that data. The only reason for using the inactive data I can see is a comparison with OSM-only places. This could indicate NPTG places which might have been deactivated because they are not part of the public transport network. Unless we want to add data from NPTG to existing OSM stops (e.g. the locality code) this information is probably more relevant to the DoT than OSM. However, since places in OSM might be derived from NPE maps, OSM-only places could also mean that the locality has been abandoned in the time since 1950. Your brief history of NPTG indicates to me that the data is probably much more recent then NPE's 1950 data. It might therefore be interesting to know which places are only in OSM and not even in the inactive NPTG data. Such places have then probably been abandoned a long time ago. Christoph Roger -Original Message- From: Christoph Böhme [mailto:christ...@b3e.net] Sent: 28 July 2009 22:54 To: ro...@slevin.plus.com; Public transport/transit/shared taxi related topics Cc: ro...@slevin.plus.com; 'Peter Miller' Subject: Re: [Talk-transit] Naptan import Roger, thank you for your explanations. Roger Slevin ro...@slevin.plus.com schrieb: Although NPTG was originally for public transport purposes, we stressed at all times that a locality should be listed even if it has no public transport - but we know that some local editors have probably erred towards marking some unserved rural hamlets as inactive. All inactive localities should still be in the data - so hamlets which are missing may be in NPTG, but marked as inactive. What would an inactive entry look like in the data? The xml schema does not seem to define any elements/attributes for inactive entries. However they may simply never have been in the source data - and no one to date has recognised the need to add them to NPTG. It would be interesting to see what localities OSM holds in its data which are not included in NPTG (as well as the reverse of this) if that is possible. I created two tables of OSM- and NTPG-only places: http://www.mappa-mercia.org/nptg/nptg-only-localities.csv.gz http://www.mappa-mercia.org/nptg/osm-only-localities.csv.gz I considered a place to be only in one dataset if no place from the other dataset exists in its proximity which has the same name. Proximity was defined as an euclidian distance less than 0.3 between the lat/lon positions of the places (I don't know how this relates to kilometres/miles). Since the OSM data contains some nodes with place-tags that have nothing with actual places, I only included nodes with a place-value of either locality, island, suburb, hamlet, village, municipality, town or city. I also excluded place=farm. Christoph ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
Re: [Talk-transit] Naptan import
Peter Miller peter.mil...@itoworld.com schrieb: On 27 Jul 2009, at 22:14, Christoph Böhme wrote: Hi Roger Slevin ro...@slevin.plus.com schrieb: Locality Classification was added as a possible nice to have to the version 2 schema but it has not been populated, and no guidance has been created to indicate how this field should be used (save for a table of permitted values). There is no classification data in NPTG other than that which comes from the source - and that is only there because it could be ... I would not recommend its use as it is flaky, and offers nothing in respect of newly created locality entries in the Gazetteer. So, it looks like we will not have any classification information. Unless we just want to import the plain names this will complicate the import a bit as we have to somehow map the locations to OSM place- types. At the moment I am having three ideas how we could do this: Based on the parent relationship we could guess if a location might be a suburb or village. Many places have wikipedia entries (even villages). If we can manage to automatically look the entries up and extract the relevant information (population size) from the info box we could probably classify a lot of places. The landsat data might give us some hints about the size of places. We just need to find a way to retrieve this information automatically :-) Alternatively we could just invent a value for unclassified places and wait for people to classify the places. It seems that the NPTG data is less useful than it could have been because the the lack of classification data. We do of course also have access to locality names from other sources including NPE maps for places that are more than 50 years old and our eye-balls. Despite the lack of classification the NPTG data can still easily be matched with the data already in OSM. So, while not being able to import the whole dataset we could still add some data to existing places if we want. The NPTG has the following to offer: - Administrative Area - Atco Area Code - NPTG District in parts of the county (do these districts have any relation with ceremonial/administrative counties?) - NPTG locality reference - Alternative names (e.g. welsh names) - Short names - Qualifiers for duplicate names Do you think we should import any of this? Especially when taking the NaPTAN import into acconut the Atco Area Code or NPTG locality references might become handy, I reckon. Talking of the NaPTAN import: The NPTG data also contains polygons for the Plusbus Zones. This data is self-contained and can easily be imported. They could be either imported as ways tagged with their zone code and their name or we could create an additional relation that holds all the bus stops which are part of the zone as well. The latter would, of course, only be necessary if there are bus stops within the polygon which are not part of the zone or vice versa. Possibly we just provide NPTG data as a useful 'free' data overlay for creating localities in OSM in association with data from NPE but don't spend too long trying to do an automatic import of that data. I am of the same opinion. Most of the missing places in OSM are small hamlets, villages and suburbs and it is going to be really difficult to automatically distinguish these automatically. So, I will rather improve the NPTG viewer a bit so that it does not display NPTG places which are already in OSM anymore. This tool can then be used as a guide to find umapped places. You mention matching localities up with Wikipedia. I see no licensing issues with using data from Wikipieda as far as I am aware btw. Would be great to tie places up with Wikipedia and possibly also with woeids (http://developer.yahoo.com/geo/geoplanet/) but that could be something for later. We should keep this in mind. Although, I am not sure if it makes much sense to add tags to OSM in a completely automated process as this information can easily be applied when its needed. Cheers, Christoph Regards, Peter Do you have any other ideas? Cheers, Christoph ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
Re: [Talk-transit] Railway route relations
On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 04:24:34PM +0100, Frankie Roberto wrote: On Tue, Jul 7, 2009 at 10:43 AM, Peter Miller peter.mil...@itoworld.comwrote: I think the problem is that we are using the term Route for at least two different things. The more I think about it, the more I think this needs resolving (and well documenting)! The first question is what does route=railway denote, the infrastructure or the service pattern? This has been solved in Sebastians proposal: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Oxomoa/Public_transport_schema#Differentiation_between_railway_lines_and_railway_routes Jochen -- Jochen Topf joc...@remote.org http://www.remote.org/jochen/ +49-721-388298 ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
Re: [Talk-transit] Naptan import
Christoph Böhme christ...@b3e.net schrieb: Thomas Wood grand.edgemas...@gmail.com schrieb: 2009/7/29 Christoph Böhme christ...@b3e.net: Talking of the NaPTAN import: The NPTG data also contains polygons for the Plusbus Zones. This data is self-contained and can easily be imported. They could be either imported as ways tagged with their zone code and their name or we could create an additional relation that holds all the bus stops which are part of the zone as well. The latter would, of course, only be necessary if there are bus stops within the polygon which are not part of the zone or vice versa. I tried to create a relation for plusbus zone stops from the NaPTAN data but there were simply too many - we quickly hit the OSM relation member maximum. Okay, that answers the question. I simple create a polygon then. I suggest the following tagging scheme for the ways: public_transport=pay_scale_area ref=Plusbus zone ref name=Plusbus zone name Is pay scale area the correct general name for things like the plusbus zones? I transformed the Plusbus Zones into a josm-file (XSLT is cool :-). Thomas can you import it using the naptan-user if no one objects to the tagging scheme? http://www.mappa-mercia.org/nptg/plusbuszones.osm.gz Cheers, Christoph ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
Re: [Talk-transit] Naptan import
The polygon should be closed by linking the final entry back to the first entry in the file for each PlusBus Zone Roger -Original Message- From: talk-transit-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-transit-boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Wood Sent: 29 July 2009 22:58 To: Public transport/transit/shared taxi related topics Subject: Re: [Talk-transit] Naptan import 2009/7/29 Christoph Böhme christ...@b3e.net: Christoph Böhme christ...@b3e.net schrieb: Thomas Wood grand.edgemas...@gmail.com schrieb: 2009/7/29 Christoph Böhme christ...@b3e.net: Talking of the NaPTAN import: The NPTG data also contains polygons for the Plusbus Zones. This data is self-contained and can easily be imported. They could be either imported as ways tagged with their zone code and their name or we could create an additional relation that holds all the bus stops which are part of the zone as well. The latter would, of course, only be necessary if there are bus stops within the polygon which are not part of the zone or vice versa. I tried to create a relation for plusbus zone stops from the NaPTAN data but there were simply too many - we quickly hit the OSM relation member maximum. Okay, that answers the question. I simple create a polygon then. I suggest the following tagging scheme for the ways: public_transport=pay_scale_area ref=Plusbus zone ref name=Plusbus zone name Is pay scale area the correct general name for things like the plusbus zones? I transformed the Plusbus Zones into a josm-file (XSLT is cool :-). Thomas can you import it using the naptan-user if no one objects to the tagging scheme? http://www.mappa-mercia.org/nptg/plusbuszones.osm.gz Cheers, Christoph ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit That looks fine, the only issue is that none of the polygons are closed! -- Regards, Thomas Wood (Edgemaster) ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
Re: [Talk-transit] Naptan import
I'll see whether it is possible to get a file exported which includes the inactive localities and let you know ... there may be some value in running a comparison between your 1950s data and the more recent data in NPTG. Best wishes Roger -Original Message- From: Christoph Böhme [mailto:christ...@b3e.net] Sent: 29 July 2009 18:36 To: ro...@slevin.plus.com Cc: 'Public transport/transit/shared taxi related topics'; 'Peter Miller' Subject: Re: [Talk-transit] Naptan import Roger Slevin ro...@slevin.plus.com schrieb: Christoph Sorry - I now realise I shouldn't have referred to inactive localities ... this is something I can see on the editor system for NPTG, but the export only shows the active localities ... the records of the inactive ones are not included in the standard XML file. I would need to check whether it is possible to get an extract from NPTG which includes inactive records (or only comprises the inactive ones) - but that is a question I will only ask if someone can suggest that some useful purpose could be served by having access to that data. The only reason for using the inactive data I can see is a comparison with OSM-only places. This could indicate NPTG places which might have been deactivated because they are not part of the public transport network. Unless we want to add data from NPTG to existing OSM stops (e.g. the locality code) this information is probably more relevant to the DoT than OSM. However, since places in OSM might be derived from NPE maps, OSM-only places could also mean that the locality has been abandoned in the time since 1950. Your brief history of NPTG indicates to me that the data is probably much more recent then NPE's 1950 data. It might therefore be interesting to know which places are only in OSM and not even in the inactive NPTG data. Such places have then probably been abandoned a long time ago. Christoph Roger -Original Message- From: Christoph Böhme [mailto:christ...@b3e.net] Sent: 28 July 2009 22:54 To: ro...@slevin.plus.com; Public transport/transit/shared taxi related topics Cc: ro...@slevin.plus.com; 'Peter Miller' Subject: Re: [Talk-transit] Naptan import Roger, thank you for your explanations. Roger Slevin ro...@slevin.plus.com schrieb: Although NPTG was originally for public transport purposes, we stressed at all times that a locality should be listed even if it has no public transport - but we know that some local editors have probably erred towards marking some unserved rural hamlets as inactive. All inactive localities should still be in the data - so hamlets which are missing may be in NPTG, but marked as inactive. What would an inactive entry look like in the data? The xml schema does not seem to define any elements/attributes for inactive entries. However they may simply never have been in the source data - and no one to date has recognised the need to add them to NPTG. It would be interesting to see what localities OSM holds in its data which are not included in NPTG (as well as the reverse of this) if that is possible. I created two tables of OSM- and NTPG-only places: http://www.mappa-mercia.org/nptg/nptg-only-localities.csv.gz http://www.mappa-mercia.org/nptg/osm-only-localities.csv.gz I considered a place to be only in one dataset if no place from the other dataset exists in its proximity which has the same name. Proximity was defined as an euclidian distance less than 0.3 between the lat/lon positions of the places (I don't know how this relates to kilometres/miles). Since the OSM data contains some nodes with place-tags that have nothing with actual places, I only included nodes with a place-value of either locality, island, suburb, hamlet, village, municipality, town or city. I also excluded place=farm. Christoph ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
Re: [Talk-transit] Naptan import
Thomas Wood grand.edgemas...@gmail.com schrieb: 2009/7/29 Christoph Böhme christ...@b3e.net: I transformed the Plusbus Zones into a josm-file (XSLT is cool :-). Thomas can you import it using the naptan-user if no one objects to the tagging scheme? http://www.mappa-mercia.org/nptg/plusbuszones.osm.gz Cheers, Christoph ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit That looks fine, the only issue is that none of the polygons are closed! Oh, good that you noticed this. I fixed the file and uploaded it again. Christoph ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
Re: [OSM-talk] [talk-au] maxheight/height
Liz wrote: On Tue, 28 Jul 2009, Roy Wallace wrote: My main point is that when there is a maximum height under a way, this should be tagged as an attribute of that way, not of the ways that pass under it. Here I cannot agree When I travel over the bridge I am not interested in the maximum height of the way which travels under the bridge. When I travel under the bridge I am interested in the height limitation. Going back to my multipart specification, trying to really comprehend the logic the height of the arch is a property of the bridge. the max height which can go under the bridge is a property of the way / node beneath it note that counter-intuitively, height max height clearance May I just observe that when you go along a road, you will see 'maxheight' notices when you *enter* that road, frequently. This means an overheight vehicle cannot use that road. It can't use all except the little bit with the restriction. Therefore maxheight is a property of the way going under the bridge, possibly 1 way if the road is fragmented in OSM, and ought to be on the whole road from where the sign is until after the bridge. Also, although the sign may be physically attached to the bridge, it is placed to be visible to traffic on the way crossing beneath it, not to traffic on top so people can think oh look how interesting as they pass over it... Obviously sat-nav type applications should be able to cater for point restrictions, however the OSM idea is much more about recording what's there signed than about tagging for specific app's or renderers. I think the idea of tagging the bridge is odd, and failing to tag the way beneath irresponsible. If I see a maxheight on a bridge, I will *know* there is another layer above it. My 2p.. Mark ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [talk-au] maxheight/height
On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 4:42 PM, Mark Williams mark@blueyonder.co.uk wrote: Therefore maxheight is a property of the way going under the bridge, possibly 1 way if the road is fragmented in OSM, and ought to be on the whole road from where the sign is until after the bridge. Yup, that seems to be the consensus. And when there is no sign? I would suggest tagging only the part of the way that is physically restricted, i.e. physically under the bridge. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [talk-au] maxheight/height
On 07/28/2009 11:45 AM, Christoph Böhme wrote: According to Wikipedia clearance [1] is the free space between a vehicle and the structure (i.e. bridge) it is passing through. The maximum height (and width) of the vehicle is -- at least for railways -- called loading gauge [2] while the dimensions of the structure are called structure gauge [3]. Thus, what we find on signs is the loading gauge. It may also be worth mentioning that there's another meaning of clearance when referring to vehicles: that of the free space beneath a vehicle (ground clearance). So it would seem that clearance always refers to free space below -- meaning that it's the bridge's clearance that is marked. This does not contradict that it is also the loading gauge of the vehicles passing underneath it... -Alex Mauer hawke signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] is_in and similar tags
Could someone[1] setup a web-service where you send it a lat/lon and it returns a list of all boundaries that point is within? So just one website imports the boundary data instead of everyone having to know how to do the 'is within' search[2]. I think you might be able to do this with http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_Server_Side_Script Yes. To appeal to [1], replace in the URL (in one line) http://78.46.81.38/api/interpreter?data=%3Ccoord- query%20lat=%2251.0%22%20lon=%227.0%22/%3E%3Cprint%20mode=%22body%22/%3E the values 51.0 (latitude) and 7.0 (longitude) by the respective values. Then save the file to disk and you receive an OSM-alike file with the areas that cover the given location. Another, maybe more convenient way would be (command line in one line) wget -O - --post-data=coord-query lat=\51.0\ lon=\7.0\/print mode=\body\/ http://78.46.81.38/api/interpreter | gunzip The details are explained at http://78.46.81.38/#section.reverse_gazetteer Cheers, Roland ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Business listings
On 29/07/2009, at 5:45 AM, Jack Stringer wrote: Should we be charging to upgrade businesses details on OSM? I think it should be free. You could pay OSM to have a OSM member put all the details onto the map for them, saving them signing up etc. But I would not like to see charging being the norm. Only because OSM exists as a free map service, the same I believe should go for the Business data on it. I'd say it depends on what you are charging them for. I can't imagine we (as a community) would be happy with someone using OSM to scam money out of people, but there are ways to get money from businesses that I think would be fine. I know a lot of restaurants (and other businesses) that have *really* bad maps on their websites. What if you charged them a fair amount of money to put their business' location in OSM, give them the HTML needed to put an OSM-based map on their site, and went and checked the streetnames and landmarks in their area? You get paid, they get a map that people can actually find their business off, and OSM gets better data. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Custom OpenStreetMaps ?
This looks fabulous! I just can't figure out how to make permanent maps. I created a temporary preview map but that links expired quite soon :( How to make permanent custom map links? Cheers! On Tue, Jul 21, 2009 at 10:31 AM, Frederik Rammfrede...@remote.org wrote: Hi, Tom Hughes wrote: So somebody just needs to write a similar wizard type site then generates an OpenLayers page instead of Flash... There is something approaching this on http://osmtools.de/easymap/index.php?lang=enpage=editor - you click a few buttons and get a HTML file that contains a basic OpenLayers map made to your specification. The site is run is done by Sebastian Hohmann m...@s-hohmann.de. Bye Frederik ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- http://kernelreloaded.blog385.com/ linux, blog, anime, spirituality, windsurf, wireless registered as user #367004 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org. ICQ: 2125241, Skype: valent.turkovic ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] SotM talk - Stats on user churn - Slides?
Hi, there was a talk on SotM which besides other interesting things had numbers on user churn, aktivity and other stuff. I cant remember who was talking but i'd be interested in the slides. Are they online somewhere? Flo -- Florian Lohoff f...@rfc822.org Those who would give up a little freedom to get a little security shall soon have neither - Benjamin Franklin signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] SotM talk - Stats on user churn - Slides?
All the presentations and videos are linked from http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/State_Of_The_Map_2009 if they are available. (If anyone hasn't added theirs, please do so). Shaun On 29 Jul 2009, at 15:56, Florian Lohoff wrote: Hi, there was a talk on SotM which besides other interesting things had numbers on user churn, aktivity and other stuff. I cant remember who was talking but i'd be interested in the slides. Are they online somewhere? Flo -- Florian Lohoff f...@rfc822.org Those who would give up a little freedom to get a little security shall soon have neither - Benjamin Franklin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] SotM talk - Stats on user churn - Slides?
On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 04:56:17PM +0200, Florian Lohoff wrote: Hi, there was a talk on SotM which besides other interesting things had numbers on user churn, aktivity and other stuff. I cant remember who was talking but i'd be interested in the slides. Are they online somewhere? Got it - Saturday Keynote by Steve ... Thanks ... Flo -- Florian Lohoff f...@rfc822.org Those who would give up a little freedom to get a little security shall soon have neither - Benjamin Franklin signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Custom OpenStreetMaps ?
Apparently you need to host the map yourself. 1) Click Download Map 2) Upload map.html it to your web host or save it to a directory on your local machine 3) Put map.css and util.js into the same directory as map.html (urls below) 4) Open map.html in Firefox. Everything should just work. (I discovered this through experimentation... It appears to work but I don't know if it's what the original author intended.) To get map.css and util.js, you can run these commands from the same directory as the one that contains map.html, or just right-click on the links in Firefox and hit save as): wget http://osmtools.de/easymap/temp/map.css wget http://osmtools.de/easymap/temp/util.js OSM Slippy Map generator is a cool little utility! I'm glad to find out about it. Hope development continues. - Scott On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 5:32 AM, Valent Turkovic valent.turko...@gmail.comwrote: This looks fabulous! I just can't figure out how to make permanent maps. I created a temporary preview map but that links expired quite soon :( How to make permanent custom map links? Cheers! On Tue, Jul 21, 2009 at 10:31 AM, Frederik Rammfrede...@remote.org wrote: Hi, Tom Hughes wrote: So somebody just needs to write a similar wizard type site then generates an OpenLayers page instead of Flash... There is something approaching this on http://osmtools.de/easymap/index.php?lang=enpage=editor - you click a few buttons and get a HTML file that contains a basic OpenLayers map made to your specification. The site is run is done by Sebastian Hohmann m...@s-hohmann.de. Bye Frederik ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- http://kernelreloaded.blog385.com/ linux, blog, anime, spirituality, windsurf, wireless registered as user #367004 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org. ICQ: 2125241, Skype: valent.turkovic ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Tagging Love Hotels (Brazilian Motels)
Hi there, here in Brazil, and in most of Latin America as I can see on Wikipedia [1], so-called motels are short-time hotels or love hotels, differing from the original concept in english (hotel for drivers). Do you think that we should tag them differently (such as amenity=lovehotel or whatever, tourism=lovehotel doesn't seems to fit) or keep it tourism=motel? It's a thin line, because some love hotels (motels here) call themselves hotels but everyone (the locals) knows that they are, in fact, love hotels. 1: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motel#Short-time [] -- Arlindo Saraiva Pereira Jr. Bacharelando em Sistemas de Informação - UNIRIO - uniriotec.br Consultor de Software Livre da Uniriotec Consultoria - uniriotec.com Acadêmico: arlindo.pere...@uniriotec.br Profissional: arlindo.pere...@uniriotec.com Geral: cont...@arlindopereira.com Tel.: +5521 92504072 Jabber/Google Talk: nig...@nighto.net Skype: nighto_sumomo Chave pública: BD065DEC ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Tagging Love Hotels (Brazilian Motels)
2009/7/29 Arlindo Pereira nig...@nighto.net: Hi there, here in Brazil, and in most of Latin America as I can see on Wikipedia [1], so-called motels are short-time hotels or love hotels, differing from the original concept in english (hotel for drivers). Do you think that we should tag them differently (such as amenity=lovehotel or whatever, tourism=lovehotel doesn't seems to fit) or keep it tourism=motel? It's a thin line, because some love hotels (motels here) call themselves hotels but everyone (the locals) knows that they are, in fact, love hotels. 1: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motel#Short-time do you pay them on a short time basis or could you stay there the whole night for the same price? If it's the first, I would tag them differently, otherwise I think they could be tagged like normal motels. cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Question about gps coordinates 001W0547 convert to -1.0547
Hello, I want to convert 004E4800,47N2000 002W2300,57N 001W0547,51N4823 013E2600,47N3400 013E2600,47N3400 013E2600,47N3400 013E2600,47N3400 013E2500,47N3343 to something where 001W0547 becomes -1.0547 Is gpsbabel capable, and what format is 001W0547 ?? Thanks, Marc -- Shortwave transmissions in English, Francais, Deutsch, Suid-Afrikaans, Urdu, Cantonese, Greek, Spanish, Portuguese, ... http://users.fulladsl.be/spb13810/radio/swlist/ Stations list: http://users.fulladsl.be/spb13810/radio/txlist/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Tagging Love Hotels (Brazilian Motels)
Always on short time basis (1-4h) and always with the love factor... perhaps the portuguese Wikipedia article translated to english [2] would help on clarifying that. 2: http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=pt-BRsl=pttl=enu=http%3A%2F%2Fpt.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FMotel Cheers, 2009/7/29 Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com 2009/7/29 Arlindo Pereira nig...@nighto.net: Hi there, here in Brazil, and in most of Latin America as I can see on Wikipedia [1], so-called motels are short-time hotels or love hotels, differing from the original concept in english (hotel for drivers). Do you think that we should tag them differently (such as amenity=lovehotel or whatever, tourism=lovehotel doesn't seems to fit) or keep it tourism=motel? It's a thin line, because some love hotels (motels here) call themselves hotels but everyone (the locals) knows that they are, in fact, love hotels. 1: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motel#Short-time do you pay them on a short time basis or could you stay there the whole night for the same price? If it's the first, I would tag them differently, otherwise I think they could be tagged like normal motels. cheers, Martin -- Arlindo Saraiva Pereira Jr. Bacharelando em Sistemas de Informação - UNIRIO - uniriotec.br Consultor de Software Livre da Uniriotec Consultoria - uniriotec.com Acadêmico: arlindo.pere...@uniriotec.br Profissional: arlindo.pere...@uniriotec.com Geral: cont...@arlindopereira.com Tel.: +5521 92504072 Jabber/Google Talk: nig...@nighto.net Skype: nighto_sumomo Chave pública: BD065DEC ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Question about gps coordinates 001W0547 convert to -1.0547
are you sure it's not degrees minutes and seconds mashed-together? 004E4800 looks a bit like 4 degrees, 48 minutes, 00 seconds On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 5:54 PM, Thomas Woodgrand.edgemas...@gmail.com wrote: It looks like its a mashed form of the standard decimal Lat Lons. Assuming your conversion is correct: Replace the letter with a decimal point. If S or W place a - before the first set of digits for that coordinate. Swap the pair of coordinates around, so the northing is first, as is more common. Gpsbabel is not suitable for this, it only deals with file formats, not coordinate formats. 004E4800,47N2000 = 47.2, 4.48 002W2300,57N = 57.0, -2.23 2009/7/29 Marc Coevoet sintsix...@gmail.com: Hello, I want to convert 004E4800,47N2000 002W2300,57N 001W0547,51N4823 013E2600,47N3400 013E2600,47N3400 013E2600,47N3400 013E2600,47N3400 013E2500,47N3343 to something where 001W0547 becomes -1.0547 Is gpsbabel capable, and what format is 001W0547 ?? Thanks, Marc -- Shortwave transmissions in English, Francais, Deutsch, Suid-Afrikaans, Urdu, Cantonese, Greek, Spanish, Portuguese, ... http://users.fulladsl.be/spb13810/radio/swlist/ Stations list: http://users.fulladsl.be/spb13810/radio/txlist/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- Regards, Thomas Wood (Edgemaster) ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Business listings
I strongly disagree with you on this point. If I could use Google Maps to find plumbers, dentists and web designers, why shouldn't I be able to do it with OpenStreetMap? Perhaps not on Garmin, but on OSM.org or OpenStreetBrowser or whatever application that uses OSM data. Maybe it's just a matter of making Garmin ignore it. The Osmarender/Mapnik renderings could get cluttered, but I think that this is not a problem of the database itself; maybe we should add even closer zoom levels on crowded places. 2009/7/27 Paul Houle p...@ontology2.com Phil Endecott wrote: I'm not sure how far you can extrapolate from that, but I think it's still fair to say that Yellow Pages covers most businesses. Certainly the copies that arrive on my doorstep each year (and go straight into the recycling bin) are not getting any thinner. Personally, I'm not concerned with a database that contains ~all~ businesses, rather just the kind of businesses that a person would be interested in if they're travelling. I won't use my Garmin to find a plumber, a dentist or a web designer. I would use it to find a restaurant, gas station or hotel. Producing and maintaining a list of businesses (identity management) is a different problem from determining how good a business is, and what experiences people have had with it. I know that geonames contains a database of hotels. Personally I'm most interested in the restaurants. Travelling in the rural US, I tire pretty quick of pizza, subs and chinese food. The ideal system finds me something that isn't one of those, but if it can't do that, at least helps me get a good sub instead of a bad sub. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- Arlindo Saraiva Pereira Jr. Bacharelando em Sistemas de Informação - UNIRIO - uniriotec.br Consultor de Software Livre da Uniriotec Consultoria - uniriotec.com Acadêmico: arlindo.pere...@uniriotec.br Profissional: arlindo.pere...@uniriotec.com Geral: cont...@arlindopereira.com Tel.: +5521 92504072 Jabber/Google Talk: nig...@nighto.net Skype: nighto_sumomo Chave pública: BD065DEC ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] i18n-rich areas on the map
Ed Avis wrote: This is not really name:en, more like name:j...@romaji. For example the Imperial Palace in Tokyo would have name:en=Imperial Palace name:j...@romaji=koukyo name:jp=?? Similar considerations apply to countries with more than one alphabet, for example I would expect to see name:en=Belgrade name:s...@cyrillic=??? name:s...@latn=beograd Putting something into a different alphabet is not the same as translating it to a different language, and putting Japanese into a Latin orthography is not the same as translating it to English. So I would suggest adding the Romaji strings if they are needed, but tagging them appropriately and not as name:en. Thank you for this comment and yes, I am quite aware of the distinction for the Japanese language. However, I do believe that translitteration is worthy of appearing in name:en when none exists. I am taking the opposite approach that you are mentionning in this case. In all cases, you are starting in English to go towards the other language. Yes putting it in a different alphabet is not the same, but it can be a starting point until someone is filling the blank with a proper translation hence the two steps: translitteration and a dedicated translation website. However, you have rightly pointed how multiple writings could be used. Maybe a name:Latn would be better in this case or something indicating the language and the destination alphabet. This is an open mail and an open discussion which I believe is worth having. I am to some extent a bit annoyed to see things like name = name in native language (English translation) in the OSM files. I believe that we should keep name:en and name:jp clearly separated. Having fully localized maps for people of those countries would be better. Now, I can see some objections as you being the foreigner you won't be able to read, but those people in those countries won't contribute if they don't see their language displayed in their countries. As the discussion is showing, there are some efforts to have dynamic text layers which I believe is important hence the translitteration effort I am proposing. Emilie Laffray signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] definition of the main highway-tag
Hi, reading the English page for tag highway http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:highway and comparing it to the German version, I found some inconsistencies. Whilst I generally would have tried to transfer the English content to the German page, in this particular case I think that the German version is better. The main definition in English is: The '''highway tag''' is the primary tag used for highways. It is often the only tag. It is a very general and sometimes vague ''description of the physical structure of the highway''. This goes back to an edit from 27th Oct. 2007 (Etric Celine). Until then (from March 06) there was just this: Applying to feature type: Physical . The German version defines: Das highway Tag ist das Haupt-tag für Straßen. Oftmals ist es auch das einzige Tag. Es ist recht allgemein und bestimmt in etwa die Verkehrsbedeutung der Straße. (translates ~ The tag highway is the primary tag for highways. Often it is the only one. It is quite general and defines ~ the importance of the road for the traffic There are then 2 examples to show the advantage of a physical classification in respect to an administrative one (on the English page, dating back to the same edit): Here are two examples where the highway tag differs from the legal status: Some roads in the UK that were legally classified as trunk roads have been detrunked and are no longer designated by the government as trunk roads. These roads should still have the tag highway=trunk. /* This first example is valid for a classification according to the importance as well, while the 2nd would result in different tagging: */ A road which is legally designated as trunk road has a section where the road is not built to trunk standards, e.g. a single lane with passing areas. The section that is not built to trunk standards should be given a different value for highway other than trunk. _ If the highway-tag was the only tag on a road, I would agree with this approach, but as we are meanwhile tagging physical attributes as supplementory tags (e.g. lanes, surface, traffic-lights), as we do for administrative classification (ref), I am in favour of changing the definition for highway (no longer mainly physical but mainly according to importance / logical position in the grid). The other properties and attributes will still persist (ref, lanes, dual-carriageways, surface, tracktype, ...) and describe the situation. Also there won't be many changes / tagging-modifications necessary, because bigger roads are generally more important roads. What do you think about this? cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Tagging Love Hotels (Brazilian Motels)
Perhaps an additional tag to show stay duration. stay=hourly;daily;weekly;monthly Use any that apply. (There's probably a better tag to use than 'stay'.) We used to have a motel in town that featured Free XXX Adult Movies on their Marque (just in case hourly rates weren't a big enough hint). http://www.flickr.com/photos/89004...@n00/773484486/ http://www.roadsidepeek.com/roadusa/southwest/nevada/vegas/lvmotel/lvstripmotel/index2.htm -- - Joseph Scanlan +1-702-455-3679 http://www.n7xsd.us/ j...@co.clark.nv.us (work) (not work) n7...@arrl.net - So he went inside there to take on what he found. But he never escaped them, for who can escape what he desires? --Tony Banks of Genesis in The Lady Lies ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Tagging Love Hotels (Brazilian Motels)
2009/7/29 Joseph Scanlan n7...@arrl.net: Perhaps an additional tag to show stay duration. stay=hourly;daily;weekly;monthly Use any that apply. (There's probably a better tag to use than 'stay'.) We used to have a motel in town that featured Free XXX Adult Movies on their Marque (just in case hourly rates weren't a big enough hint). http://www.flickr.com/photos/89004...@n00/773484486/ http://www.roadsidepeek.com/roadusa/southwest/nevada/vegas/lvmotel/lvstripmotel/index2.htm Well, I would tag them completely differently. It is a different kind of object, it is not a Motel where you just pay according to a different fee system / business modell. cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Tagging Love Hotels (Brazilian Motels)
That's the point. Shouldn't we use another tag to map these kind of hotels? I imagine a search tool for each type of hotels, without having to guess about the period or the movies :P 2009/7/29 Joseph Scanlan n7...@arrl.net Perhaps an additional tag to show stay duration. stay=hourly;daily;weekly;monthly Use any that apply. (There's probably a better tag to use than 'stay'.) We used to have a motel in town that featured Free XXX Adult Movies on their Marque (just in case hourly rates weren't a big enough hint). http://www.flickr.com/photos/89004...@n00/773484486/ http://www.roadsidepeek.com/roadusa/southwest/nevada/vegas/lvmotel/lvstripmotel/index2.htm -- - Joseph Scanlan +1-702-455-3679 http://www.n7xsd.us/ j...@co.clark.nv.us (work) (not work) n7...@arrl.net - So he went inside there to take on what he found. But he never escaped them, for who can escape what he desires? --Tony Banks of Genesis in The Lady Lies -- Arlindo Saraiva Pereira Jr. Bacharelando em Sistemas de Informação - UNIRIO - uniriotec.br Consultor de Software Livre da Uniriotec Consultoria - uniriotec.com Acadêmico: arlindo.pere...@uniriotec.br Profissional: arlindo.pere...@uniriotec.com Geral: cont...@arlindopereira.com Tel.: +5521 92504072 Jabber/Google Talk: nig...@nighto.net Skype: nighto_sumomo Chave pública: BD065DEC ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] definition of the main highway-tag
If the highway-tag was the only tag on a road, I would agree with this approach, but as we are meanwhile tagging physical attributes as supplementory tags (e.g. lanes, surface, traffic-lights), as we do for administrative classification (ref), I am in favour of changing the definition for highway (no longer mainly physical but mainly according to importance / logical position in the grid). The other properties and attributes will still persist (ref, lanes, dual-carriageways, surface, tracktype, ...) and describe the situation. Also there won't be many changes / tagging-modifications necessary, because bigger roads are generally more important roads. What do you think about this? There are three separate concepts: physical structure administrative designation importance according to actual use In the US we are more or less following: interstate = interstate class, so motorway trunk is physical, but tends to match importance among primary/secondary/tertiary, it's not really about physical any more US highways tend to be important, and get primary without scrutiny state highways tend to be somewhat important and get secondary by default after that, state highways get upgraded to primary if usage warrants, and other semi-important roads get marked tertiary which blurs all three, but in a way that doesn't cause a lot of trouble. I would be in favor of trying to move slightly to importance-based tagging using ref to mark administrative designation using motorway and trunk as the current rules state. Here, the roads are so big physically that the importance more or less matches, and all such roads are important more or less by definition. using primary, secondary, tertiary without real regard to legal status or physical size, but according to usage: primary is typically used for long-distance travel, 100km or more, or for a road that until recently was still used for that and is still culturally important secondary is typically used for travel at least 25km (between multiple towns) tertiary is used to get to secondary roads (to get to the 'real road' in the next town) This is more or less that I do around my town, and it mostly matches the rules. pgp4X0xjO57L4.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Tagging Love Hotels (Brazilian Motels)
On Wed, 29 Jul 2009, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: Well, I would tag them completely differently. It is a different kind of object, it is not a Motel where you just pay according to a different fee system / business modell. Around here I would not use a separate tag. No-Tell Motels must show a little discretion. Hourly rate is a pretty clear hint as to what people are doing there (not sleeping) but it still looks like a motel on the outside. Places that are more open could very well have businesses that deserve a special tag. For example, I wouldn't tag any business in Clark County as a brothel, the brothels look like other businesses and the prostitutes will go somewhere else when the location draws too much attention from law enforcement. In other Nevada counties, were prostitution is legal, a brothel tag makes sense. These are clearly labeled, well established businesses. Just my point of view from a rather atypical city in the US desert south west. -- - Joseph Scanlan +1-702-455-3679 http://www.n7xsd.us/ j...@co.clark.nv.us (work) (not work) n7...@arrl.net - So he went inside there to take on what he found. But he never escaped them, for who can escape what he desires? --Tony Banks of Genesis in The Lady Lies ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Business listings
Arlindo Pereira wrote: I strongly disagree with you on this point. If I could use Google Maps to find plumbers, dentists and web designers, why shouldn't I be able to do it with OpenStreetMap? Perhaps not on Garmin, but on OSM.org or OpenStreetBrowser or whatever application that uses OSM data. Maybe it's just a matter of making Garmin ignore it. I don't have a problem with having the other business listings there IF having them doesn't compromise the quality of the business listings I actually want. Already my handheld has a menu that lets me select for major categories, so I won't find zoos while looking for gas stations. (Though it would be nice to say NO PIZZA, NO SUBS, and sometimes NO CHINESE FOOD...) I see it more as a matter of resources and business model. If there's a way to get good data for everything, great -- if not, I think it's OK to focus on areas where there's a strong need. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] i18n-rich areas on the map
Emilie, If you are going to add machine-created romaji transliterations, then I strongly suggest that you put them into name:jp_rm (as given in the Japanese mappers' specification above) and do not put them into name:en. See: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Japan_tagging#Names Using name:jp_rm will be much clearer and consistent than using name:en. It will also be better for using in multi-lingual maps, because the software displaying the map can then be (more) certain which language is stored in each tag and display the correct ones. Automatically creating loads of new name:en tags containing romaji instead of English will increase confusion. I personally think that name:en should only be used for real English translations (although the Japanese mappers' spec. doesn't say that - it allows for transliterations or translations!). Another reason for putting your machine transliterations into name:jp_rm would be to avoid the situation where you add a romaji transliteration into the name:en tag when there is actually a legitimate English translation that should be in there. I can't think of a way for your software to know whether there is a legitimate English translation or not, given that it requires local knowledge (at least some of the time)? It would be much better to have the name:en blank in cases where there is a legitimate English translation (and the translation has not been entered yet!). As many of the Japanese edits are going to be entered by Japanese natives who may not know the legitimate English translations, I'd guess that there are going to be quite a lot of blank name:en tags that should have an English translation not a romaji transliteration, so 'blank' can't be automatically interpreted as 'needs romaji transliteration'. Having just re-read your posting, I'm actually not so sure what you are proposing - you wrote I believe that we should keep name:en and name:jp clearly separated. but than you also wrote I do believe that translitteration is worthy of appearing in name:en when none exists. Hmmm! Cheers, Woll (mapper in Japan) Emilie Laffray wrote: Ed Avis wrote: This is not really name:en, more like name:j...@romaji. For example the Imperial Palace in Tokyo would have name:en=Imperial Palace name:j...@romaji=koukyo name:jp=?? Similar considerations apply to countries with more than one alphabet, for example I would expect to see name:en=Belgrade name:s...@cyrillic=??? name:s...@latn=beograd Putting something into a different alphabet is not the same as translating it to a different language, and putting Japanese into a Latin orthography is not the same as translating it to English. So I would suggest adding the Romaji strings if they are needed, but tagging them appropriately and not as name:en. Thank you for this comment and yes, I am quite aware of the distinction for the Japanese language. However, I do believe that translitteration is worthy of appearing in name:en when none exists. I am taking the opposite approach that you are mentionning in this case. In all cases, you are starting in English to go towards the other language. Yes putting it in a different alphabet is not the same, but it can be a starting point until someone is filling the blank with a proper translation hence the two steps: translitteration and a dedicated translation website. However, you have rightly pointed how multiple writings could be used. Maybe a name:Latn would be better in this case or something indicating the language and the destination alphabet. This is an open mail and an open discussion which I believe is worth having. I am to some extent a bit annoyed to see things like name = name in native language (English translation) in the OSM files. I believe that we should keep name:en and name:jp clearly separated. Having fully localized maps for people of those countries would be better. Now, I can see some objections as you being the foreigner you won't be able to read, but those people in those countries won't contribute if they don't see their language displayed in their countries. As the discussion is showing, there are some efforts to have dynamic text layers which I believe is important hence the translitteration effort I am proposing. Emilie Laffray -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 195 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature Url : http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20090729/77e39b82/attachment-0001.pgp -- Message: 3 Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 20:16:32 +0200 From: Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com Subject: [OSM-talk] definition of the main highway-tag To: osm talk@openstreetmap.org Message-ID: 7acdb3650907291116g4f87609fpbc33a23104a09...@mail.gmail.com Content
[OSM-talk] Business listings - a website
Sorry for breaking the thread, but I did a mockup of a website that people could use to enter their own businesses into OSM: http://dev.openstreetmap.org/~ojw/SmallAds/ so any user of this website can* create up to 5 OSM nodes, label them as amenity=whatever, and enter a description, a phone number, and a website. the idea would be: this is pitched at small business owners who've never heard of OSM, and only buy advertising on yellow pages because someone knocked at their door and sold it to them. It should take less than 10 minutes to setup, for someone who only once per month uses the computer their grandson bought them, and should be simple enough that you can guide someone though it over the phone. Additionally, it should be easy for self-employed salesmen to go around their home towns selling this service to every business, taking some fixed price to enter the shop's details into OSM, print a map for them, and give them an img for their website. We can't reach everybody to help in OSM, but if someone sees a business in creating free data then maybe they can help us. * I've done an basic webapp mockup, but could someone help with coding the creation of OSM objects? It's neanderthal PHP at the moment, but you can port it to rails or cake or J2EEmanagementEdition if you prefer. Ideas welcome regards, OJW ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Tagging Love Hotels (Brazilian Motels)
On Wed, 29 Jul 2009, Ulf Lamping wrote: You seem to think about an inofficial brothel, as prostitution is illegal in some parts of nevada. Sorry I wasn't clear. I understand the love motel isn't a brothel. My point is that in places that disapprove (officially or not) some business look a lot like other businesses (and may even offer normal services to some clients). Should there be a love motel tag? IMHO, yes. Would I use the tag to describe a motel around here? No. One probably could rent a room for the night, alone, to sleep (but the clerk might try to direct the guest to some place more appropriate). So... after all that, I probably haven't helped the original poster at all. (But I am enjoying the thread!) -- - Joseph Scanlan +1-702-455-3679 http://www.n7xsd.us/ j...@co.clark.nv.us (work) (not work) n7...@arrl.net - So he went inside there to take on what he found. But he never escaped them, for who can escape what he desires? --Tony Banks of Genesis in The Lady Lies ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Best-practice-idea traffic_sign
Hi all, Today I saw for the first time on the area I'm contributing a tag called traffic_sign=city_limit. Then I went on the map features and discovered it. Huh, why not... I'm not watching the map features changes since the page length is exceeding 100 meters ... But I'm reading this list and others and never noticed a mention about such a key proposal. Anyway, marking the beginning/end of a town can be helpful because it's usually changing the speedlimit, etc. Then I click on the wiki page http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:traffic_sign and then surprise: 1. you have to read carefully at the end of the page or in the discussion tab to see that it is not an approved key, it is a best-practice-idea. Well, that's a new concept. Until now, we had two categories of tags : the ones proposed and discussed on the wiki but never approved by a vote or a poll but widely used in the database, the ones discussed and approved, and now, the best-practice-ideas discussed and approved by three persons. It's true it's going faster. Or I missed the announcement somewhere on a mailing-list... 2. It says that the main use is for city_limit. Again, why not. But the other examples are very questionable : traffic_sign=maxspeed:30 or traffic_sign=DE:239 break some practices we had until now like key=value and not key=key:value or like key:country=value and not key=country:value. So, any comments about this Best-practice-idea process ? Is it possible to have a real discussion about the examples or is it too late ? Pieren ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Tagging Love Hotels (Brazilian Motels)
Yes, that's right, usually regular couples go there. Should I propose a new tag? Cheers, 2009/7/29 Ulf Lamping ulf.lamp...@googlemail.com Joseph Scanlan schrieb: On Wed, 29 Jul 2009, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: Well, I would tag them completely differently. It is a different kind of object, it is not a Motel where you just pay according to a different fee system / business modell. Around here I would not use a separate tag. No-Tell Motels must show a little discretion. Hourly rate is a pretty clear hint as to what people are doing there (not sleeping) but it still looks like a motel on the outside. Places that are more open could very well have businesses that deserve a special tag. For example, I wouldn't tag any business in Clark County as a brothel, the brothels look like other businesses and the prostitutes will go somewhere else when the location draws too much attention from law enforcement. In other Nevada counties, were prostitution is legal, a brothel tag makes sense. These are clearly labeled, well established businesses. Just my point of view from a rather atypical city in the US desert south west. You seem to think about an inofficial brothel, as prostitution is illegal in some parts of nevada. IIRC the brazilian love hotels are often used by regular couples (so probably no business involved). Because the couple still lives at their parents, not married, or whatever. IIRC, this kind of motel is also known in japan. Yes, I guess it makes sense to tag them special, as a normal traveller probably wouldn't want to stay there. As we already have amenity=brothel, why not use amenity=love_hotel for this? Regards, ULFL ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- Arlindo Saraiva Pereira Jr. Bacharelando em Sistemas de Informação - UNIRIO - uniriotec.br Consultor de Software Livre da Uniriotec Consultoria - uniriotec.com Acadêmico: arlindo.pere...@uniriotec.br Profissional: arlindo.pere...@uniriotec.com Geral: cont...@arlindopereira.com Tel.: +5521 92504072 Jabber/Google Talk: nig...@nighto.net Skype: nighto_sumomo Chave pública: BD065DEC ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] definition of the main highway-tag
2009/7/29 Greg Troxel g...@ir.bbn.com: There are three separate concepts: physical structure administrative designation importance according to actual use maybe there could be also a forth that is structural importance for the historical development (e.g. the main street, that was there before all others and the rest developed around it). I would be in favor of trying to move slightly to importance-based tagging me too using ref to mark administrative designation +1 using motorway and trunk as the current rules state. Here, the roads are so big physically that the importance more or less matches, and all such roads are important more or less by definition. yes, motorways are the most easy ones, they are motorways when they are motorways (in Germany Autobahnsign, in other countries equivalent sign). using primary, secondary, tertiary without real regard to legal status or physical size, but according to usage: +1 primary is typically used for long-distance travel, 100km or more, or for a road that until recently was still used for that and is still culturally important +1, even when the long-distances in Europe might begin at 50 km, the concept is the same secondary is typically used for travel at least 25km (between multiple towns) tertiary is used to get to secondary roads (to get to the 'real road' in the next town) this is working well for out-of-town situations. Inside urban agglomerations there should be different criteria though (and not necessarily they are physical, what is my point: let's put the definition according to everyday best-practise tagging). cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Tagging Love Hotels (Brazilian Motels)
On Wed, 29 Jul 2009 23:17:59 +0200, Ulf Lamping ulf.lamp...@googlemail.com wrote: Joseph Scanlan schrieb: On Wed, 29 Jul 2009, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: Well, I would tag them completely differently. It is a different kind of object, it is not a Motel where you just pay according to a different fee system / business modell. Around here I would not use a separate tag. No-Tell Motels must show a little discretion. Hourly rate is a pretty clear hint as to what people are doing there (not sleeping) but it still looks like a motel on the outside. Places that are more open could very well have businesses that deserve a special tag. For example, I wouldn't tag any business in Clark County as a brothel, the brothels look like other businesses and the prostitutes will go somewhere else when the location draws too much attention from law enforcement. In other Nevada counties, were prostitution is legal, a brothel tag makes sense. These are clearly labeled, well established businesses. Just my point of view from a rather atypical city in the US desert south west. You seem to think about an inofficial brothel, as prostitution is illegal in some parts of nevada. IIRC the brazilian love hotels are often used by regular couples (so probably no business involved). Because the couple still lives at their parents, not married, or whatever. IIRC, this kind of motel is also known in japan. Yes, I guess it makes sense to tag them special, as a normal traveller probably wouldn't want to stay there. As we already have amenity=brothel, why not use amenity=love_hotel for this? I think in most cases they can be tagged as normal motels, most of them also offer day-rates or even week-rates in addition to hour-rates, most of them have a few or more Adult tv-channels, but so do many hotels. The only difference is that some of them have a 18year limit for guests (no minores under 18 can stay). The kind of rates a motel (or hotel for that matter) should be possible to tag, I do not think the entertainment package is of interest to the map, age limits might be tagged as some sort of restriction. I also know that there are normal hotels that have some restrictions, such as no infants, unmarried couples cannot share room, no alcoholic beverage, etc. IMO, a brazilian love hotel should be tagged motel, with additional tags if needed. Me and my wife use such love hotels at times to get a night from the kids, so there are several usages. When travelling in Brazil, usually Pousada is a good and cheap place to stay, taking the role of motels in Europe, though most pousadas don't accept visitors after a certain hour (without prior notification/reservation) while the motels accepts visitors at any hour. -- Brgds Aun Johnsen via Webmail ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Layer transitions
2009/7/29 Harald Kleiner e9625...@gmx.at: Hi! I want to talk about this page on the wiki describing how to map tunnels correctly: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tunnel#How_to_Map Especially the last paragraph causes headaches to me: If the tunnel ends in a junction you'll need a small un-tunneled way between the end of the tunnel and the junction Where does this rule come from? this might be a logical topic: we are mapping the center of the road. The tunnel can not end at the center of the crossing road, because this road itself is not a tunnel. (you will have at least half the width of the crossing road untunneled). cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Tagging Love Hotels (Brazilian Motels)
Here is the propose page: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Love_Hotel Cheers, 2009/7/29 Aun Johnsen (via Webmail) skipp...@gimnechiske.org On Wed, 29 Jul 2009 23:17:59 +0200, Ulf Lamping ulf.lamp...@googlemail.com wrote: Joseph Scanlan schrieb: On Wed, 29 Jul 2009, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: Well, I would tag them completely differently. It is a different kind of object, it is not a Motel where you just pay according to a different fee system / business modell. Around here I would not use a separate tag. No-Tell Motels must show a little discretion. Hourly rate is a pretty clear hint as to what people are doing there (not sleeping) but it still looks like a motel on the outside. Places that are more open could very well have businesses that deserve a special tag. For example, I wouldn't tag any business in Clark County as a brothel, the brothels look like other businesses and the prostitutes will go somewhere else when the location draws too much attention from law enforcement. In other Nevada counties, were prostitution is legal, a brothel tag makes sense. These are clearly labeled, well established businesses. Just my point of view from a rather atypical city in the US desert south west. You seem to think about an inofficial brothel, as prostitution is illegal in some parts of nevada. IIRC the brazilian love hotels are often used by regular couples (so probably no business involved). Because the couple still lives at their parents, not married, or whatever. IIRC, this kind of motel is also known in japan. Yes, I guess it makes sense to tag them special, as a normal traveller probably wouldn't want to stay there. As we already have amenity=brothel, why not use amenity=love_hotel for this? I think in most cases they can be tagged as normal motels, most of them also offer day-rates or even week-rates in addition to hour-rates, most of them have a few or more Adult tv-channels, but so do many hotels. The only difference is that some of them have a 18year limit for guests (no minores under 18 can stay). The kind of rates a motel (or hotel for that matter) should be possible to tag, I do not think the entertainment package is of interest to the map, age limits might be tagged as some sort of restriction. I also know that there are normal hotels that have some restrictions, such as no infants, unmarried couples cannot share room, no alcoholic beverage, etc. IMO, a brazilian love hotel should be tagged motel, with additional tags if needed. Me and my wife use such love hotels at times to get a night from the kids, so there are several usages. When travelling in Brazil, usually Pousada is a good and cheap place to stay, taking the role of motels in Europe, though most pousadas don't accept visitors after a certain hour (without prior notification/reservation) while the motels accepts visitors at any hour. -- Brgds Aun Johnsen via Webmail ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- Arlindo Saraiva Pereira Jr. Bacharelando em Sistemas de Informação - UNIRIO - uniriotec.br Consultor de Software Livre da Uniriotec Consultoria - uniriotec.com Acadêmico: arlindo.pere...@uniriotec.br Profissional: arlindo.pere...@uniriotec.com Geral: cont...@arlindopereira.com Tel.: +5521 92504072 Jabber/Google Talk: nig...@nighto.net Skype: nighto_sumomo Chave pública: BD065DEC ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Business listings - a website
I prefer though that the data shouldn't be directly added to the database especially for well-mapped areas. Some POIs do not appear in the map (mapnik or osmarender). But then you're just mapping for the renderers - omitting data because two of current representations of the database as provided by osm.org don't show everything the database includes. What about if someone was to produce a new renderer from current OSM data? Of course, renderers are only the start - if the OSM database contained enough information about local businesses somebody could start a project involving OSM, Asterisk and some text - speech software that would allow you to phone a number and get a list of the nearest bicycle shops to your current location that were open at the time. Or the nearest car repair shop that was approved by your insurance company, or... We shouldn't limit ourselves by what could be drawn on a map, especially if we limit that even further by what is currently drawn on two examples. Cheers, Joseph 2009/7/30 maning sambale emmanuel.samb...@gmail.com: This is really useful and would love this simple service to be implemented. I prefer though that the data shouldn't be directly added to the database especially for well-mapped areas. Some POIs do not appear in the map (mapnik or osmarender). A volunteer mapper can subscribe to a boundingbox and edit them before upload. I always prefer a human rather than some yellowpages.bot.script. On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 5:05 AM, OJ Wojwli...@googlemail.com wrote: Sorry for breaking the thread, but I did a mockup of a website that people could use to enter their own businesses into OSM: http://dev.openstreetmap.org/~ojw/SmallAds/ so any user of this website can* create up to 5 OSM nodes, label them as amenity=whatever, and enter a description, a phone number, and a website. the idea would be: this is pitched at small business owners who've never heard of OSM, and only buy advertising on yellow pages because someone knocked at their door and sold it to them. It should take less than 10 minutes to setup, for someone who only once per month uses the computer their grandson bought them, and should be simple enough that you can guide someone though it over the phone. Additionally, it should be easy for self-employed salesmen to go around their home towns selling this service to every business, taking some fixed price to enter the shop's details into OSM, print a map for them, and give them an img for their website. We can't reach everybody to help in OSM, but if someone sees a business in creating free data then maybe they can help us. * I've done an basic webapp mockup, but could someone help with coding the creation of OSM objects? It's neanderthal PHP at the moment, but you can port it to rails or cake or J2EEmanagementEdition if you prefer. Ideas welcome regards, OJW ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Best-practice-idea traffic_sign
Hi, Pieren wrote: Today I saw for the first time on the area I'm contributing a tag called traffic_sign=city_limit. Then I went on the map features and discovered it. Huh, why not... Exactly. I haven't been involved in the discussion, I don't use it myself, and I find it strange to talk about a best-practice idea (because best practice comes from practice, not from ideas). Nevertheless, if there are people who think this is good and works for them - let them use it. So, any comments about this Best-practice-idea process? I don't think there is such a process. It's just a bunch of people who thought this was a good idea. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Best-practice-idea traffic_sign
2009/7/30 Pieren pier...@gmail.com: true it's going faster. Or I missed the announcement somewhere on a mailing-list... maybe it was just announced on the German ML, but I remember about it 2. It says that the main use is for city_limit. Again, why not. But the other examples are very questionable : traffic_sign=maxspeed:30 or traffic_sign=DE:239 break some practices we had until now like key=value and not key=key:value or like key:country=value and not key=country:value. Well, I know about others: maxspeedtype=ITA:city for example, or maxspeed=DE:walk I don't understand why key:country=value is different to key=country:value but I would like to learn about it. So, any comments about this Best-practice-idea process ? Is it possible to have a real discussion about the examples or is it too late ? it's never too late, and you can always discuss. cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Tagging Love Hotels (Brazilian Motels)
--- On Wed, 29/7/09, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: Well, I would tag them completely differently. It is a different kind of object, it is not a Motel where you just pay according to a different fee system / business modell. There is a tag for brothel in the system already ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Best-practice-idea traffic_sign
--- On Wed, 29/7/09, Pieren pier...@gmail.com wrote: the other examples are very questionable : traffic_sign=maxspeed:30 That does look questionable if for no other reason that maxspeed should be used consistently so routing doesn't have to look for 50 different tags or parse all tags looking for those with maxspeed in them. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Best-practice-idea traffic_sign
--- On Wed, 29/7/09, Roy Wallace waldo000...@gmail.com wrote: To me, that looks like somebody is marking *the sign*, as opposed to marking *the maxspeed restriction*. Seems fine to me - because the sign does physically exist on the ground - but the restriction should also be mapped, using maxspeed=30. Have things reached the level that people have nothing but street signs to map as POIs? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Best-practice-idea traffic_sign
On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 10:46 AM, John Smith delta_foxt...@yahoo.com wrote: --- On Wed, 29/7/09, Pieren pier...@gmail.com wrote: the other examples are very questionable : traffic_sign=maxspeed:30 That does look questionable if for no other reason that maxspeed should be used consistently so routing doesn't have to look for 50 different tags or parse all tags looking for those with maxspeed in them. To me, that looks like somebody is marking *the sign*, as opposed to marking *the maxspeed restriction*. Seems fine to me - because the sign does physically exist on the ground - but the restriction should also be mapped, using maxspeed=30. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Business listings - a website
What I'm saying is, when a new user (using this interface) sees the map they would assume that the POI/business establishment are not yet in the map. They would then add the info knowing it's not yet there. I like the simplicity of ojw's mockup. We don't need to overcomplicate it at the moment. On 7/30/09, Joseph Reeves iknowjos...@gmail.com wrote: I prefer though that the data shouldn't be directly added to the database especially for well-mapped areas. Some POIs do not appear in the map (mapnik or osmarender). But then you're just mapping for the renderers - omitting data because two of current representations of the database as provided by osm.org don't show everything the database includes. What about if someone was to produce a new renderer from current OSM data? Of course, renderers are only the start - if the OSM database contained enough information about local businesses somebody could start a project involving OSM, Asterisk and some text - speech software that would allow you to phone a number and get a list of the nearest bicycle shops to your current location that were open at the time. Or the nearest car repair shop that was approved by your insurance company, or... We shouldn't limit ourselves by what could be drawn on a map, especially if we limit that even further by what is currently drawn on two examples. Cheers, Joseph 2009/7/30 maning sambale emmanuel.samb...@gmail.com: This is really useful and would love this simple service to be implemented. I prefer though that the data shouldn't be directly added to the database especially for well-mapped areas. Some POIs do not appear in the map (mapnik or osmarender). A volunteer mapper can subscribe to a boundingbox and edit them before upload. I always prefer a human rather than some yellowpages.bot.script. On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 5:05 AM, OJ Wojwli...@googlemail.com wrote: Sorry for breaking the thread, but I did a mockup of a website that people could use to enter their own businesses into OSM: http://dev.openstreetmap.org/~ojw/SmallAds/ so any user of this website can* create up to 5 OSM nodes, label them as amenity=whatever, and enter a description, a phone number, and a website. the idea would be: this is pitched at small business owners who've never heard of OSM, and only buy advertising on yellow pages because someone knocked at their door and sold it to them. It should take less than 10 minutes to setup, for someone who only once per month uses the computer their grandson bought them, and should be simple enough that you can guide someone though it over the phone. Additionally, it should be easy for self-employed salesmen to go around their home towns selling this service to every business, taking some fixed price to enter the shop's details into OSM, print a map for them, and give them an img for their website. We can't reach everybody to help in OSM, but if someone sees a business in creating free data then maybe they can help us. * I've done an basic webapp mockup, but could someone help with coding the creation of OSM objects? It's neanderthal PHP at the moment, but you can port it to rails or cake or J2EEmanagementEdition if you prefer. Ideas welcome regards, OJW ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Best-practice-idea traffic_sign
On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 11:05 AM, John Smithdelta_foxt...@yahoo.com wrote: Have things reached the level that people have nothing but street signs to map as POIs? Hehe. I don't see why we should discourage a high level of detail. Users can decide for themselves what they want to contribute, as long as they annotate it correctly, which seems to be the case here IMHO. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] [tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Clearance
I have made a proposal for a tag marking physical clearance over roads, this because it is not the same as legal restrictions on height, and in many countries have a different sign warning the driver that he might not be able to pass, though he still not is legaly restricted. The proposal can be found on http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/clearance [1] Brgds Aun Johnsen via Webmail Links: -- [1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/clearance ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Clearance
--- On Wed, 29/7/09, Aun Johnsen (via Webmail) skipp...@gimnechiske.org wrote: I have made a proposal for a tag marking physical clearance over roads, this because it is not the same as legal restrictions on height, and in many countries have a different sign warning the driver that he might not be able to pass, though he still not is legaly restricted. The proposal can be found on http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/clearance I think this will only serve to confuse, no where on the maxheight wiki link you provided does it say it's a legal restriction, if anything it's exactly the same thing you're just giving people the option of picking tags so half the system will have maxheight used, and half will have clearance and the routing software will end up with twice the work for no benefit. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] My online presence
All Bar about two or three of my most ardent friends I am the strongest believer and defender of free speech and the free market I know. The former, I believe far beyond what exists in the United Kingdom and much of Europe. I came to this position after volunteering for organisations which campaigned on the interface between public policy and computers on issues like copyright, encryption and identity cards before OpenStreetMap was born. Thus what I say is tempered by a relatively deep understanding of the rights and issues surrounding things like fair dealing/use, right to privacy and so on. There is a blog and twitter account which attempts to mirror my thoughts and actions with witty insight. These represent at a guess two or three people who for the most part are quite funny if crude. A fake persona in the digital age. The recent departures in to my personal life amongst this commentary has moved beyond what I will reasonably deal with, and has begun to impact others which I don't feel is appropriate. This is sad. So I feel the need to reduce my online presence which I regret, in that the very point of the web is sharing information and I enjoy those services like flickr and dopplr which I will shortly curtail. It will certainly not totally stop any more personal comments to withdraw from these services any more than the RIAA suing twelve year olds will stop music piracy, but I will limit the scope of information available. This will give me some comfort. The quickest and simplest way to remove myself is to unfollow, unsubscribe and unfriend people en masse from these various services and begin again by admitting people carefully and with a consideration of privacy. If you're the victim of this then don't take it personally, just re-friend me or send me a note. This post will give me something to link to for explanation. In any case I salute parody but I must protect others from the fallout. Yours c. Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Clearance
On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 12:00 PM, John Smithdelta_foxt...@yahoo.com wrote: --- On Wed, 29/7/09, Aun Johnsen (via Webmail) skipp...@gimnechiske.org wrote: I have made a proposal for a tag I think this will only serve to confuse, no where on the maxheight wiki link you provided does it say it's a legal restriction, if anything it's exactly the same thing you're just giving people the option of picking tags so half the system will have maxheight used, and half will have clearance and the routing software will end up with twice the work for no benefit. True, maxheight currently does not specify the reason. So the question is, is there a need to differentiate between different kinds of maxheight? Surely this issue has come up before in relation to other keys? If there is in fact a need to differentiate, what's the most common practice? For example, maxheight:physical=* and maxheight:legal=*? Just throwing ideas around, but you would first need to demonstrate that maxheight is not sufficient. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Alle haltes routes GVB
Op de stops manier was mijn voorstel. Stefan Op 29 jul 2009 om 09:43 heeft Christiaan Welvaart c...@daneel.dyndns.org het volgende geschreven:\ On Wed, 29 Jul 2009, Stefan de Konink wrote: Ik heb 'toevallig' alle haltes en routes bij elkaar geraapt gekregen van iemand die tijd over had. Ik zit nu met het volgende probleem: 1) Bestaande haltes 2) Hoe dit in te voeren Ik zou de routes nu in eerste instantie van-naar willen doen, en dus niet taggen voor de renderer. Volgens http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Oxomoa/Public_transport_schema ? Christiaan ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
[OSM-talk-nl] Welke Garmin
Hallo straatmappers Kunnen jullie me vertellen welke (Garmin)-GPS-apparaatjes voor mij geschikt zijn? - Ik wil de OSM kunnen gebruiken als voetganger en op de fiets (ik rijd geen auto) en - Ik zou een bijdrage willen leveren aan het onderhoud van de map. Ik beschik niet over een Windows-systeem, wel over enkele Linuxsystemen. Ik heb lange lijsten GPS-tracers bestudeerd, die missen allemaal wel een feature of zijn erg duur. Maar welke features zijn noodzakelijk of er belangrijk om de OSM onderweg comfortabel te kunnen gebruiken zonder te veel geld uit te geven?, Met welke apparaten hebben jullie goede ervaringen? Oh ja, kan je ook nog ergens zoń ding lenen om wat ervaring mee op te doen? groet hansr ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [talk-au] ABS post code areas
I plan to tag landuse=residential polygons with town information, or try to, things like is_in:country, is_in:state and state multipolygons can be tagged with country information, the only corner case then is roads between towns which is where postcode boundaries would be useful. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] ABS post code areas
I plan to tag landuse=residential polygons with town information, or try to, things like is_in:country, is_in:state and state multipolygons can be tagged with country information, the only corner case then is roads between towns which is where postcode boundaries would be useful. Actually is in is pointless, the name tag can be grabbed from the bounding multipolygon. Anyway, this seems to be the most important information for a town polygon, not touching suburbs at this point in time thought I'd start with the easy cases :) landuse=residential admin_level=10 name=Town Name population=pop When postal boundaries are put in place the postal codes can be worked out for places as well. As for place nodes, it seems all that is needed is: place=city|town|village name=name Thoughts? ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] ABS post code areas
--- On Wed, 29/7/09, John Smith delta_foxt...@yahoo.com wrote: landuse=residential admin_level=10 name=Town Name population=pop I just noticed admin_level=10 is used by ABS boundaries, but in the case of Gympie for example, Gympie township area is bigger than the ABS boundary as this would appear to be some what historical, so something like admin_level=9 may be better. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] [OSM-talk] maxheight/height
On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 4:42 PM, Mark Williams mark@blueyonder.co.uk wrote: Therefore maxheight is a property of the way going under the bridge, possibly 1 way if the road is fragmented in OSM, and ought to be on the whole road from where the sign is until after the bridge. Yup, that seems to be the consensus. And when there is no sign? I would suggest tagging only the part of the way that is physically restricted, i.e. physically under the bridge. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[talk-au] Fwd: [Osmf-talk] OPENSTREETMAP FOUNDATION - NOTICE OF ANNUAL GENERAL MEETING
-- You may be recognized soon. Hide. To all members of OpenStreetMap Foundation, NOTICE IS HEREBY GIVEN that the 3rd Annual General Meeting of the OpenStreetMap Foundation will be held at the offices of Cloudmade Ltd, Suite 1.06 Enterprise House, 1/2 Hatfields, London, SE1 9PG, UK. on Saturday 22nd August 2009 at 14.30 BST. OSMF AGM Agenda: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Foundation/AGM09 Nominations are open for OSMF board positions at the AGM. To add a nomination or your own name please see the instructions via the link below or send an email to secret...@osmfoundation.org . All members of the Foundation are eligible to stand for election to the Board. If you are not already a member of the Foundation then you can sign up via http://foundation.openstreetmap.org/membership/ or contact members...@osmfoundation.org . Nominations close on August 17th. Proxy voting by email opens on August 1st. The final vote will be taken at the AGM itself. Nominations and proxy voting details can be found via the Agenda page link above. Andy Robinson Secretary OpenStreetMap Foundation Name Registered Office: Openstreetmap Foundation 16 Oakfield Glade Weybridge Surrey KT13 9DP United Kingdom A company limited by guarantee, registered in England and Wales. Registration No. 05912761. ___ osmf-talk mailing list osmf-t...@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/osmf-talk ---BeginMessage--- To all members of OpenStreetMap Foundation, NOTICE IS HEREBY GIVEN that the 3rd Annual General Meeting of the OpenStreetMap Foundation will be held at the offices of Cloudmade Ltd, Suite 1.06 Enterprise House, 1/2 Hatfields, London, SE1 9PG, UK. on Saturday 22nd August 2009 at 14.30 BST. OSMF AGM Agenda: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Foundation/AGM09 Nominations are open for OSMF board positions at the AGM. To add a nomination or your own name please see the instructions via the link below or send an email to secret...@osmfoundation.org . All members of the Foundation are eligible to stand for election to the Board. If you are not already a member of the Foundation then you can sign up via http://foundation.openstreetmap.org/membership/ or contact members...@osmfoundation.org . Nominations close on August 17th. Proxy voting by email opens on August 1st. The final vote will be taken at the AGM itself. Nominations and proxy voting details can be found via the Agenda page link above. Andy Robinson Secretary OpenStreetMap Foundation Name Registered Office: Openstreetmap Foundation 16 Oakfield Glade Weybridge Surrey KT13 9DP United Kingdom A company limited by guarantee, registered in England and Wales. Registration No. 05912761. ___ osmf-talk mailing list osmf-t...@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/osmf-talk ---End Message--- ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] ABS post code areas
Thanks, I'll find out how big they are cheers On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 7:32 PM, John Smith delta_foxt...@yahoo.com wrote: --- On Wed, 29/7/09, Franc Carter franc.car...@gmail.com wrote: I more than happy to put the extract somewhere - I just need to find a place. I'll re-extract them all, compress them and see how big they are I have ample space on the virtual system I setup for the map stuff I'm screwing about with so happy to host them for you, or I think you can get OSM to host things like this too. -- Franc ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] navit
--- On Wed, 29/7/09, Mark Hetherington mark-os...@hethos.org wrote: I'm very interested in the Australia image. I'm curious how it's being processed though, when I did the processing myself I found searching in navit did not work. My investigations to this point indicated I needed a patched version of osm2navit to put all nodes in Australia. Any special tricks up your sleeve? Nothing special, just followed the directions on this wiki page: http://www.rigacci.org/wiki/doku.php/doc/appunti/hardware/eeepc_navit I downloaded the data for Australia, rather than Italy though :) ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] LCA2010
On Wed, 29 Jul 2009 22:53:47 +1000 James Livingston doc...@mac.com wrote: On 29/07/2009, at 10:43 PM, Hugh Barnes wrote: I think OSM's profile in the FOSS community is a little dim. There have been quite a few posts on planet.gnome.org in the last couple of months about integrating maps (mostly OSM via libchamplain) into Gnome applications. However we do need to get more people aware of it. Agreed. Sorry, I meant in Oz specifically. Would someone like to put some words together to go about addressing this? If you do, best to let the list know of your intent to do so. You might even get some helper elves. Urgh. Something I mentioned the other year, although way too late to do anything about, was that we should really get LCA to use OpenStreetMap for it's mapping needs. As well as any official maps, there are often Google Maps-based things with all the good coffee shops, pubs and eateries in the area marked. It may need some work by people in the area (I haven't checked yet), but it would be good if the area surrounding the conference was well mapped out by January. Yeah, earlier in that same thread I think. Good plan. Hopefully the NZ LINZ data import will have been done by then. Of course, I'm expecting much more can be mapped than whatever's in that dataset. It's the detail that makes OSM maps stand out IMO. Another possibility is that it could be an official LCA task to do some micro-mapping. Brain dumping. Cheers ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[talk-au] ABS postcode boundaries
Hi all, I've created a set of .osm files from the ABS postcode boundary data. Each .osm file is a way that encloses the postcode, so that you could use it to find the boundaries of that postcode. John has kindley provided hosting for the files at:- http://maps.bigtincan.com/data/postcodes/ cheers -- Franc ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] ABS post code areas
Hi. I have seen a couple of places where you have put these. Can you please put something like layer=-5, as otherwise they cover up other layers in the town. - Ben. 2009/7/29 John Smith delta_foxt...@yahoo.com I plan to tag landuse=residential polygons with town information, or try to, things like is_in:country, is_in:state and state multipolygons can be tagged with country information, the only corner case then is roads between towns which is where postcode boundaries would be useful. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] ABS post code areas
--- On Wed, 29/7/09, Ben Kelley ben.kel...@gmail.com wrote: I have seen a couple of places where you have put these. Can you please put something like layer=-5, as otherwise they cover up other layers in the town. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:layer Do not use this tag to correct some render behaviour as in just to make the output look better. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] ABS postcode boundaries
--- On Wed, 29/7/09, Andrew Laughton laughton.and...@gmail.com wrote: I vote put it all in, marked with the source, and as better data comes along it can be (re)moved and the source updated. Well I can fix the boundary up for one area from personal knowledge, others we'd have to pester auspost for better information or postal workers or find people living near or on post code boundaries or ? ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Putting things into perspective...
--- On Wed, 29/7/09, Jeff Price jeff.pr...@rocketmail.com wrote: Its for this reason that I often ponder the realistic long term coverage OSM can expect for Australia and other low density locations. There are just some many km's of stuff to map that starting from a blank canvas for the majority of towns out there can be overwhelming, expensive(fuel), and not environmentally sound (if by car purely to do a gps trace or field audit). Yes it can be rewarding when see it take shape, but still a big ask. For similar reasons I have been slowly chasing local government mapping data so that we can at least fill in a few blanks on the canvas (even if its not 100% correct) so that people can invest time into making it better instead of making it exist. For the more populated areas I think doing our own would make sense to some degree as it would provide some level of consistency with the rest of the data. Less populated areas it would be better to approach this as a bidirectional proposition, and this idea has been rolling around in the back of my head for a few weeks I just haven't fully thought it out yet. The idea is that rural and remote councils get a benefit too, by supplying us with the initial data we can at a later stage give them back a cleaner supply of data that is updated either by them or ourselves and we have a lot of free tools to help maintain that information. This seems to be happening already with the USGS (United States Geological Survey), the mapping agency in Austria, the mapping agency in NZ (LINZ) and those are just the ones I can name off the top of my head. Perhaps we should ask for help from those with better PR and negotiating skills within the OSM Foundation to help us with this? ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Nambour/Sunshine Coast Mapping Party
Ash, I think I'll be going, and I can probably provide a lift. Anyone else in Brisbane interested in sharing a car up to Nambour for this? - David Ashley Kyd-2 wrote: I'm interested in attending and I'd love to carpool, because that's what I do. Just thought I ought to get my expression of interest out there on the list. -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Nambour-Sunshine-Coast-Mapping-Party-tp24647051p24730498.html Sent from the OpenStreetMap - Australian Talk mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] ABS postcode boundaries
Something else I've noticed, the postcode boundaries cover some areas that other boundaries don't and would have come in handy for doing sections of road and river that can't easily be done from low res sat imagery :) ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [Talk-br] [OSM-talk] Tagging Love Hotels (Brazilian Motels)
It's not a brothel, because normal couples go there. Please read the wikipedia article that explains better, because I think that love hotels are not common in US or Europe as here in Brazil or in Japan. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love_hotel Cheers, 2009/7/29 John Smith delta_foxt...@yahoo.com --- On Wed, 29/7/09, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: Well, I would tag them completely differently. It is a different kind of object, it is not a Motel where you just pay according to a different fee system / business modell. There is a tag for brothel in the system already ___ talk mailing list t...@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- Arlindo Saraiva Pereira Jr. Bacharelando em Sistemas de Informação - UNIRIO - uniriotec.br Consultor de Software Livre da Uniriotec Consultoria - uniriotec.com Acadêmico: arlindo.pere...@uniriotec.br Profissional: arlindo.pere...@uniriotec.com Geral: cont...@arlindopereira.com Tel.: +5521 92504072 Jabber/Google Talk: nig...@nighto.net Skype: nighto_sumomo Chave pública: BD065DEC ___ Talk-br mailing list Talk-br@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-br
[Talk-br] [tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Clearance
I have made a proposal for a tag marking physical clearance over roads, this because it is not the same as legal restrictions on height, and in many countries have a different sign warning the driver that he might not be able to pass, though he still not is legaly restricted. The proposal can be found on http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/clearance [1] Brgds Aun Johnsen via Webmail Links: -- [1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/clearance ___ Talk-br mailing list Talk-br@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-br
Re: [Talk-de] Taggingschema für neuen Radroutenplan er Osnabrücks
Ein kleines Problem sehe ich in der Beschränkung auf Osnabrück. Natürlich könnt ihr hier das Tagging der Straßen und Wege entsprechend anpassen, aber wenn ihr an mehr Feedback interessiert seid, solltet ihr euch vielleicht überlegen, den Router auf ganz Deutschland auszuweiten. Ich werde vermutlich kaum eine Route in Osnabrück planen, die Navigation in meiner Umgebung würde ich jedoch sicherlich testen, und nur hier kann ich dann auch die Qualität der Route beurteilen. Außerdem ist es natürlich auch eine sinnvolle Herausforderung, den Routingalgorithmus so zu parametrisieren, dass er auch bei Wegen mit fehlenden Details noch halbwegs brauchbare Resultate liefert. Und bei OSM muss man davon ausgehen, dass es immer Bereiche geben wird, die genauer gemappt sind als andere und dass auch jeder ein wenig anders mappt. Punkte 1-7: Aus meiner Sicht sinnvoll. 8.)Benutzer hat die Freiheit seine Route selbst einzuzeichnen. Das umzusetzen stelle ich mir schwierig vor. Ideal wäre sowas wie beim Routenplaner von Google Maps: hier kann man ausgehend von einer errechneten Route beliebige Zwischenziele setzen und per Maus auf der Karte bequem verschieben. Für den Wegtyp track ohne Hilfsattribute: Er ist mit dem normalen (Trekking)-Rad befahrbar problemlos befahrbar. Hier hatte ich in der Vergangenheit schon schlechte Erfahrungen machen müssen. Tracks ohne tracktype können auch gerne mal grade4 oder grade5 sein, darüber möchte ich mit einem normalen Rad nicht gelotst werden. -Höhenmessung Interessant ist, ob sich SRTM Daten wirklich nutzen lasssen, um die Steigung abzuschätzen. Ansonsten natürlich per Steigungsmesser (z.B. Sky Mounti). Ihr könnt euch dann auch noch überlegen, ob die maximale Steigung oder die mittlere Steigung eines Wegs in die Berechnung mit einfließen soll (oder beides). Ich fände es sinnvoll, wenn es einige Presets gäbe, z.B. Rennrad (nur asphaltierte Wege), Trecking Bike, Mountain Bike, mit Kindern (keine großen Straßen ohne cycleway=track), mit Anhänger (keine Stufen), usw. und man diese Einstellung auch selbst anpassen kann. Kriterien wären z.B.: Fußwege zulassen (außer bei bicycle=no) Path ohne bicycle=yes|designated zulassen Stufen Tracks bis grade x Straßen ohne cycleway Steigungen ... Die einzelnen Punkte sollten man auch gewichten können, z.B. völliger Ausschluß, zulassen, aber nur wenn ich mir dadurch 5 km Umweg erspare, usw. Aber das hat Martin ja auch schon geschrieben. Somit mein Feedback. Viel Erfolg, Rudi __ GRATIS für alle WEB.DE-Nutzer: Die maxdome Movie-FLAT! Jetzt freischalten unter http://movieflat.web.de ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Aktion Postkasten
Am Dienstag, den 28.07.2009, 23:27 +0200 schrieb Tobias Wendorff: Ich pflege bald die Werler Postkästen ein und dann werde ich gucken, ob der 1-km-Radius eingehalten wurde. Ich glaube, die haben Angst davor :-) Gilt da eigentlich der Luftlinienradius oder der kürzeste Weg? Wie ist es also wenn der Postkasten in einer Siedlung direkt an den Bahngleisen steht und auf der anderen Seite der Bahngleise auch eine Siedlung ist, der nächste Bahnübergang aber 2km entfernt? signature.asc Description: Dies ist ein digital signierter Nachrichtenteil ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Taggingschema für neuen Radroutenplan er Osnabrücks
Für den Wegtyp track ohne Hilfsattribute: Er ist mit dem normalen (Trekking)-Rad befahrbar problemlos befahrbar. Hier hatte ich in der Vergangenheit schon schlechte Erfahrungen machen müssen. Tracks ohne tracktype können auch gerne mal grade4 oder grade5 sein, darüber möchte ich mit einem normalen Rad nicht gelotst werden. Das wird immer ein Problem bleiben, auch wenn da nähere Angaben gemacht werden. Da haben wir hier schon einen Luxus den man mit anderen Karten nicht hat. Und in der Praxis merkt man auch immer mehr warum professionelle Anbieter nicht so ins Detail gehen. Ab Grade 2 mit Schotter wird es mit größer werdendem Abstand zum Erfassungstag immer mehr zum Glücksspiel. Das ist wirklich nur verlässlich, wenn das mindestens jährlich überprüft wird. Bei uns haben sich seit der touristischen Ausrichtung auf die Himmelsscheibe die Prioritäten klar verschoben. Alles was dorthin führt wird gut gepflegt und die wenigen Schotterpisten sind gut in Form. Andere Wanderwege und Pfade dazwischen sind aber irgendwie in Vergessenheit geraten. Wege die man vor 2 oder 3 Jahren noch gut befahren konnten sind nur noch mit einer Machete passierbar. Sogar Abschnitte von Fernwanderwegen sind davon betroffen. Andere hat man nach Forstarbeiten nicht wieder hergerichtet. Ehemals gut befahrbare Grade 3 mit Erde sind abschnittsweise verkrautet und versumpft und man bekommt sogar mit dem MTB Probleme. Die Galerie des Schreckens kann ich gerne mal online stellen. Ich würde also auch bei OSM dringend dazu raten immer eine paralele Ersatzroute mit mindestens Grade 2 auf dem Plan zu haben. Der 2006 als Grade 3 eingetragene Weg kann zwischenzeitlich deutlich gelitten haben und je nach Rad und Fahrer unpassierbar sein. Auf diese Angaben ist je nach Alter keinerlei Verlass. Gruß Mirko ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] All_in_one_Garmin_Map Europa - Wie ist der aktuelle Stand?
Tobias Wendorff tobias.wendo...@uni-dortmund.de wrote: Ja und? Die ganzen Unix-Tools gibt es für Windows ... seit OSM verwende ich die Dinger auch unter Windows, damit ich nicht immer in SSH wechseln muss :-) Those who do not understand Unix are condemned to reinvent it, poorly *grin* Sven -- If you can spend five minutes on the Internet and do not run Linux, you're a genius. (Dirk Hohndel) /me is gig...@ircnet, http://sven.gegg.us/ on the Web ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Projektzidee: Interaktiver OSM-basierter Tourenplaner
Sven Sommerkamp s_sommerk...@gmx.de wrote: Vielleicht mal fragen wie das bei gpsies.com funktioniert.. Denn dort ist das Verfahren ja genau jenes, wie du dir vorstellst! Das sieht man doch wie das geht, da wird bei jedem Klick eine Abfrage an Google gesendet. Das ist natürlich in der Tat schön gemacht. Das geht offensichtlich über die Google Routing API. Da könnte man dann im OSM Umfeld allenfalls openrouteservice.org anbinden. Glaube ich jetzt kaum, dass das schnell genug dafür wäre. Gruss Sven -- Software is like sex; it's better when it's free (Linus Torvalds) /me is gig...@ircnet, http://sven.gegg.us/ on the Web ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] JOSM Relationseditor - Weg hinzufügen
Am Mittwoch, den 29.07.2009, 03:20 +0200 schrieb Michael Bemmerl: Falk Zscheile schrieb: Am 28. Juli 2009 23:25 schrieb malenki o...@malenki.ch: Falk Zscheile schrieb: [eine Frage zur Vermeidung von zu großen Kartenausschnitten in JOSM bei editieren von Relationen] Lade doch nur die Relation anhand ihrer ID. Das war ja eine meiner Ausgangsfragen. Unter welchem Menüpunkt wird mir diese Möglichkeit geboten? Unter File Open Location kannst Du direkt eine URL eingeben: http://api.openstreetmap.org/api/0.6/relation/ID der Relation Das habe ich gerade mal probiert. Geht leider nicht. Wenn man jedoch /full dranhängt, sodass die Elemente mit geladen werden, funktioniert es, also: http://api.openstreetmap.org/api/0.6/relation/ID der Relation/full Gruß Andre signature.asc Description: Dies ist ein digital signierter Nachrichtenteil ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] [tagging] Vorschlag - Abstimmung - power_rating
Simon Kokolakis schrieb: André Riedel schrieb: Ich kann mir unter dieser Zusatzinformation viel Potential vorstellen. Denn ob ich zur Orientierung ein Windrad mit 2kW Nennleistung oder ein Minipropellor mit 100W suche ist schon ein unterschied. Wie willst du die bitte anhand der Leistung unterscheiden? Multimeter beim vorbeifahren hinheben? An der Größe. Leistungsfähigere Anlagen fallen meistens auch größer aus. André geht es um eine grobe Unterteilung von kleinen Anlagen zur Selbstversorgung eines Betriebes o.ä., und den großen Biestern. Leider haben nicht alle Anlagen die Leistung mit dranstehen. Ich wünsche mir noch einen Tag für die nette Beleuchtung der Flugsicherung die man auf entsprechend hohen Gebilden findet, aber das wird jetzt OT. Grüße René ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Bangkok auf Garmin
Sven Geggus schrieb: wie bekomme ich am einfachsten die OSM Karte von Bangkok oder Thailand auf mein Garmin. Ich würde ja gefülsmäßig sagen, dass sich das nicht lohnt, weil da noch viel zu wenig erfasst ist. Zumindest in der Stadt siehts ganz gut aus: http://osm.org/go/4S9q8B48-- Auf dem Land, naja, aber das Problem haben wir ja hier auch (noch). ;-) Außerdem vermute ich, dass mkgmap da eventuell Probleme mit der Thai-Schrift bekommen könnte. Ich vermute, dass die Garmins nicht UTF können, und mkgmap alles rausfiltert, was nicht in iso-latin konvertiert werden kann. Chris ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] [tagging] Vorschlag - Abstimmung - power_rating
Am 29. Juli 2009 01:50 schrieb Simon Kokolakis simon.kokola...@gmx.de: André Riedel schrieb: Ich kann mir unter dieser Zusatzinformation viel Potential vorstellen. Denn ob ich zur Orientierung ein Windrad mit 2kW Nennleistung oder ein Minipropellor mit 100W suche ist schon ein unterschied. Wie willst du die bitte anhand der Leistung unterscheiden? Multimeter beim vorbeifahren hinheben? Größe? ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
[Talk-de] Google Maps Auto hier durchgefahren
Hallo, ein Google Maps Auto ist gerade durch Uedesheim/Neuss gefahren. Bei etwas mehr Ankündigung hätte ich ein OSM Schild parat gehabt. So bleibt etwas Chaos im Garten für die nächsten paar Jahre zu sehen, weil gerade die Garage ausgeräumt worden ist. :-) Viele Grüße Michael ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
[Talk-de] Shapefile Converter
Hallo zusammen, gibt es einen vernünftigen Konverter für Shapefiles, am besten einer der unter Windows läuft freeware ist und Postscript Dateien erzeugt. Henry E Heute schon gefreeMailt? Jetzt kostenlose E-Mail-Adresse sichern! http://email.freenet.de/dienste/emailoffice/produktuebersicht/basic/mail/index.html?pid=6831 ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] [tagging] Vorschlag - Abstimmung - power_rating
René Falk schrieb: Ich wünsche mir noch einen Tag für die nette Beleuchtung der Flugsicherung die man auf entsprechend hohen Gebilden findet, aber das wird jetzt OT. moin, so was ähnliches gibt es bei den Seefahrern: man_made = beacon Gruß Jörk ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Shapefile Converter
Hallo, henry-ev...@freenet.de wrote: gibt es einen vernünftigen Konverter für Shapefiles, am besten einer der unter Windows läuft freeware ist und Postscript Dateien erzeugt. Was sind denn die Kriterien, die einen vernuneftigen Konverter ausmachen wuerden, und was soll in den Postscript-Dateien zu sehen sein? Bye Frederik ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
[Talk-de] Openstreetmap-Wiki: Wie man auf dem Laufenden bleibt
Hallo, vor kurzem gab es ja hier auf der Liste eine Diskussion über das Openstreetmap-Wiki, in der Grant (Firefishy) angekündigt hat, die E-Mail Notification Funktionalität freizuschalten. Die Funktion ermöglicht es, per E-Mail über Änderungen bestimmter Wikiseiten informiert zu werden. Das ist eine klasse Sache für all diejenigen, die keine große Lust auf das Wiki haben aber dennoch über bestimmte Änderungen (zum Beispiel auf Stammtisch- oder Mapper-Treffen Wikiseiten) informiert bleiben wollen. Wer sich dafür interessiert, bisher aber vom Wiki noch nicht so eine große Ahnung hat (und mit Firefishys Kurzanleitung nicht so viel anfangen konnte), dem habe ich hier http://tinyurl.com/l2bwg3 eine kurze Anleitung zum Aktivieren dieser Funktion geschrieben. Grüße, Stephan -- sb-lis...@gmx-topmail.de ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
[Talk-de] Badestelle
Moin, ich bin auf der Suche nach einem Tag für Badestellen. Mittelbar ergibt sich das natürlich auch aus natural=beach. Allerdings kenne ich in der Mecklenburger Seenplatte zahlreiche Badestellen, die man besser nicht als Strand bezeichnet. Das sind eher schilffreie Einstiegsstellen. Dann gibt es auch noch Strände an denen man sich zwar sonnen aber nicht baden darf. Verwendet jemand von Euch etwas in Richtung waterway/amenity/tourism=bathing_area/swimming_area? Wo würdet ihr es einordnen? Im Wiki habe ich nur das Freie-Tonne-Symbol für Badestelle (waterway:sign=swimming) gefunden. Das trifft es in meinem Sinne nicht. Die Badestellen gibt es auch dort, wo es sonst keine Schiffsverkehr gibt. Eine erweiterte Interpretation ist hier deshalb sicher nicht im Sinne dieses Wasserverkehrszeichens. Gruß, Falk ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] [tagging] Vorschlag - Abstimmung - power_rating
André Riedel schrieb: Am 29. Juli 2009 01:50 schrieb Simon Kokolakis simon.kokola...@gmx.de: André Riedel schrieb: Ich kann mir unter dieser Zusatzinformation viel Potential vorstellen. Denn ob ich zur Orientierung ein Windrad mit 2kW Nennleistung oder ein Minipropellor mit 100W suche ist schon ein unterschied. Wie willst du die bitte anhand der Leistung unterscheiden? Multimeter beim vorbeifahren hinheben? Größe? Dann ist aber die Größe/Höhe etc. das Entscheidungskriterium und nicht die Nennleistung. Für die Nennleistung sehe ich keinen sinnvollen Verwendungszweck in einer Karte. Beste Grüße, Simon ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Aktion Postkasten
Am Mi, 29.07.2009, 09:16 schrieb Andre Hinrichs: Gilt da eigentlich der Luftlinienradius oder der kürzeste Weg? Das muss ich mal nachlesen, aber solche Analysen finde ich interessant :-) Wie ist es also wenn der Postkasten in einer Siedlung direkt an den Bahngleisen steht und auf der anderen Seite der Bahngleise auch eine Siedlung ist, der nächste Bahnübergang aber 2km entfernt? Würde für den Radius sprechen... wir haben einen Bahnübergang unmittelbar vor der Hauptpost mit externem Briefkasten :-) ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] [tagging] Vorschlag - Abstimmung - power_rating
Am 29. Juli 2009 12:49 schrieb Simon Kokolakis simon.kokola...@gmx.de: André Riedel schrieb: Am 29. Juli 2009 01:50 schrieb Simon Kokolakis simon.kokola...@gmx.de: André Riedel schrieb: Ich kann mir unter dieser Zusatzinformation viel Potential vorstellen. Denn ob ich zur Orientierung ein Windrad mit 2kW Nennleistung oder ein Minipropellor mit 100W suche ist schon ein unterschied. Wie willst du die bitte anhand der Leistung unterscheiden? Multimeter beim vorbeifahren hinheben? Größe? Dann ist aber die Größe/Höhe etc. das Entscheidungskriterium und nicht die Nennleistung. Für die Nennleistung sehe ich keinen sinnvollen Verwendungszweck in einer Karte. Die Bauhöhe ist auch interessant und sollte wenn bekannt eingetragen werden. Jedoch werden Bauhöhe und Leistung proportional zueinander verlaufen, woraus man die Wichtigkeit der Nennleistung erkennt. Ob du das ganze in einer normalen Karte finden wirst ist eine andere Sache, jedoch könnte man anhand dessen eine Wichtung für die Darstellung machen, wie es auch mit der Einwohnerzahl einer Stadt zum Beispiel möglich ist. Oder möchtest du jetzt sagen die Einwohnerzahl ist irrelevant, weil man auf der Karte nur die Ausbreitung/Bebauung einer Stadt sehen will? Aber unabhängig davon wurde die Notwendigkeit für bestimmte OSM-Benutzer-Kreise schon mit dem Tag power_output bewiesen und muss jetzt nur noch so lange wie möglich sprachlich und logisch korrigiert werden. Ciao André ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Keine Wendemöglichkeit für LKW in Sackgasse - wie mappen?
Am Dienstag, 28. Juli 2009 22:59:51 schrieb Guenther Meyer: Am Dienstag 28 Juli 2009 schrieb Sven Sommerkamp: Am Montag, 27. Juli 2009 07:49:54 schrieb Guenther Meyer: Am Montag 27 Juli 2009 schrieb Bernd Wurst: Hallo. Am Sonntag, 26. Juli 2009 schrieb Guenther Meyer: Ich bin dagegen, diese Info als Teil der Straßen-Klassifizierung einzutragen. Wer das Schild aus dokumentarischem Grund eintragen will soll das gerne tun, aber verkehrstechnisch ist es auf einer Karte sinnlos. osm ist in erster linie ein datenbankprojekt, kein kartendienst! OSM ist in erster Linie für Karten sinnvoll einzusetzen und das hatten diejenigen die OSM auf den Weg gebracht haben auch damals sschon so gedacht! eine karte ist nur eine anwendung unter vielen. Es ist DIE ANWENDUNG von allen die mit den Daten möglich sind! und deswegen willst du andere nutzungsmoeglichkeiten ausschliessen? Hab ich nicht behauptet und auch nicht gemeint ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Shapefile Converter
henry-ev...@freenet.de wrote: gibt es einen vernünftigen Konverter für Shapefiles, am besten einer der unter Windows läuft freeware ist und Postscript Dateien erzeugt. QGIS? Sven -- In the land of the brave and the free, we defend our freedom with the GNU GPL (Richard M. Stallman on www.gnu.org) /me is gig...@ircnet, http://sven.gegg.us/ on the Web ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Shapefile Converter
Sven Geggus schrieb: QGIS? Unterstützt QGIS eigentlich Shapefile komplett oder nur soviel, wie die freie Shapelib kann? ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Google Maps Auto hier durchgefahren
michael.b...@arcor.de schrieb: ein Google Maps Auto ist gerade durch Uedesheim/Neuss gefahren. Bei etwas mehr Ankündigung hätte ich ein OSM Schild parat gehabt. So bleibt etwas Chaos im Garten für die nächsten paar Jahre zu sehen, weil gerade die Garage ausgeräumt worden ist. :-) Du kannst ja Widerspruch einlegen. Vor ein paar Wochen hat ein Messfahrzeug vor unserem Haus geparkt ... habe Fotos gemacht, lade ich bald hoch. ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Badestelle
Falk Zscheile schrieb: Das sind eher schilffreie Einstiegsstellen. Ich würde dort einfach einen Weg bis ans Wasser zeichnen. Dann gibt es auch noch Strände an denen man sich zwar sonnen aber nicht baden darf. Ans Gewässer ein access-tag für das Schwimmverbot hängen. Gruß malenki ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] All_in_one_Garmin_Map Europa - Wie ist der aktuelle Stand?
2009/7/29 Sven Geggus li...@fuchsschwanzdomain.de: Tobias Wendorff tobias.wendo...@uni-dortmund.de wrote: Ja und? Die ganzen Unix-Tools gibt es für Windows ... seit OSM verwende ich die Dinger auch unter Windows, damit ich nicht immer in SSH wechseln muss :-) Those who do not understand Unix are condemned to reinvent it, poorly *grin* /* offtopic, puristen bitte gleich wegclicken */ Du kannst da natürlich grinsen, aber Windows hat auch ein paar klare Vorteile (u.a. gibt es einige professionelle Programme, für die es unter Unix/Linux einfach keinen Ersatz gibt). Es gibt ja auch Leute, die mit Ihrem Computer nicht nur programmieren und im Internet surfen ;-). Für Linux gibt es leider weder ein vernünftiges CAD noch Photoshop (GIMP - *jetzt grinse ich*), noch Illustrator/Freehand (nun gut, Inkscape ist schon näher dran als GIMP an PS, aber trotzdem, das sind nach wie vor Welten) und vermutlich noch einiges andere nicht. Es gibt derzeit zu WIn in manchen Bereichen nur 1 Alternative: Mac, und in anderen (z.B. Autocad) gar keine. Schön wäre es allerdings schon, wenn Unix wiedererfunden würde, dieses Windows hat ja doch auch ein paar Schwächen ;-) Gruß Martin ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Badestelle
Moin, Falk Zscheile schrieb: Moin, ich bin auf der Suche nach einem Tag für Badestellen. Verwendet jemand von Euch etwas in Richtung waterway/amenity/tourism=bathing_area/swimming_area? Wo würdet ihr es einordnen? Hier bei uns in der Gegend sind die Badestellen an Seen mit sport = swimming markiert. Wird aber z.Z. nur in Osmarender gerendert. Gruß Georg ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Google Maps Auto hier durchgefahren
michael.brug at arcor.de writes: Hallo, ein Google Maps Auto ist gerade durch Uedesheim/Neuss gefahren. Bei etwas mehr Ankündigung hätte ich ein OSM Schild parat gehabt. So bleibt etwas Chaos im Garten für die nächsten paar Jahre zu sehen, weil gerade die Garage ausgeräumt worden ist. Viele Grüße Michael Mir ist so ein rollendes Kamerastativ beim mappen mal direkt aus einer Auffahrt vor die Karre gefahren, hatte leider reflexartig gebremst und den Unfall vermieden... DAS wäre doch mal was für die Mapping accidents-Seite gewesen :-D http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Mapping_accidents ciao Mirko ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Keine Wendemöglichkeit für LKW in S ackgasse - wie mappen?
Am 29. Juli 2009 13:24 schrieb Sven Sommerkamp s_sommerk...@gmx.de: Ich bin dagegen, diese Info als Teil der Straßen-Klassifizierung einzutragen. Wer das Schild aus dokumentarischem Grund eintragen will soll das gerne tun, aber verkehrstechnisch ist es auf einer Karte sinnlos. OSM ist in erster Linie für Karten sinnvoll einzusetzen und das hatten diejenigen die OSM auf den Weg gebracht haben auch damals sschon so gedacht! eine karte ist nur eine anwendung unter vielen. Es ist DIE ANWENDUNG von allen die mit den Daten möglich sind! und deswegen willst du andere nutzungsmoeglichkeiten ausschliessen? Hab ich nicht behauptet und auch nicht gemeint was hast Du denn dann gemeint? Gruß Martin ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
