Re: [OSM-talk] Coordinates in OSM. Really annoying

[Ian Dees]

On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 9:42 AM, Dave F  wrote:

> We're *all* volunteers giving our valuable time to OSM. It could be more
> efficiently spent if fixable variations such as this didn't occur. When I
> add data I'm, quite rightly, expected to do it to a certain standard of
> quality.
>

I think we've talked about this problem enough. If it's this important to
you, why don't you make contributions to this software so that they're
interoperable? I don't think there's anything else that we need to discuss
further on this mailing list.
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Re: [OSM-talk] Coordinates in OSM. Really annoying

[Dave F]

We're *all* volunteers giving our valuable time to OSM. It could be more 
efficiently spent if fixable variations such as this didn't occur. When 
I add data I'm, quite rightly, expected to do it to a certain standard 
of quality.


DaveF

On 24/04/2017 13:46, Nick Whitelegg wrote:



Could one of the reasons be that open source developers are doing this 
in their own time and have a million other responsibilities in their 
lives?



TBH I think it's a case of live with it and read the documentation. 
There are more important things to worry about. ��



Nick

<http://www.solent.ac.uk/disclaimer/disclaimer.aspx>

*From:* Dave F <davefoxfa...@btinternet.com>
*Sent:* 24 April 2017 11:31:24
*To:* OSM Talk
*Subject:* Re: [OSM-talk] Coordinates in OSM. Really annoying
Hi

I'm unsure why go on about anyone being "thrown out".

I'm unsure why doing it inconsistently in the past in 'legacy' code is
any reason for not trying to sort it out for the future.

Programmers can reformat to any standard* of their desire /within/ their
own program. It can't be hard to do; it is, after all, pure ASCII text.
What's irritating is the responsibility oft the syntax has been passed
on to the end user.

What are the reasons the authors of the programs listed can't coordinate
with each other to simplify it for users within OSM community?

* Are they really adhering to a 'standard' or just doing it one way
because a competitor did it another?

DaveF

On 23/04/2017 08:29, Roland Olbricht wrote:
> Hi,
>
>> Is there /really/ any need for *six* coordinate formats? It's hard
>> enough to learn a new process without basics like this tripping you up.
>
> There is nobody who is trusted enough to set an universal standard:
> https://xkcd.com/927/
>
> Basically, there is an ISO standard
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_6709
> to have latitude before longitude. Leaflet complies, OpenLayers does 
not.

>
> This is for historical reasons. When multiple projections were
> commonplace as exchange formats, then they often used x and y as names
> for the two numbers, and x often decoded to something loosely or
> tightly related to longitude.
>
> However, OpenLayers is too useful to be thrown out just for having the
> wrong coordinate order. The same applies to a lot of other tools with
> legacy coordinate order.
>
> To have a gentle pressure towards the ISO standard, the advertised
> interface is latitude-longitude. There are some precautions for inert
> legacy tools:
> http://dev.overpass-api.de/blog/bounding_boxes.html#lonlat_bbox
>
> As Lester has pointed out, XML requires explicit parameter names. By
> the way, I am not aware of anybody actively using the XML syntax. You
> can safely ignore that.
>
> For the delimiter question: There are programming languages with a
> combined market share of almost 90% that agree to have to semanticy in
> whitespace. The sole widespread-used exception is Python. Once again:
> Are you seriously asking the OSM community for a crusade to throw out
> Python for minor syntactic infrigement?
>
> Beside Python, the delimiters are always commas and semi-colons. As
> commas tend to be used to delimit parameters, they are for the numbers
> of the bounding box the delimiters of choice.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Roland
>


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Re: [OSM-talk] Coordinates in OSM. Really annoying

[Iván Sánchez Ortega]

On lørdag 22. april 2017 12.34.24 CEST Viet Nguyen wrote:
> Not to mention [longitude, latitude] vs [latitude, longitude] issue.

Mandatory read: http://www.macwright.org/lonlat/ (and http://
www.macwright.org/2016/07/15/longitude-latitude-is-the-right-way.html )


Been there, done that, get used to it.


-- 
Iván Sánchez Ortega   


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Re: [OSM-talk] Coordinates in OSM. Really annoying

[Nick Whitelegg]

Could one of the reasons be that open source developers are doing this in their 
own time and have a million other responsibilities in their lives?

TBH I think it's a case of live with it and read the documentation. There are 
more important things to worry about. [?]


Nick

<http://www.solent.ac.uk/disclaimer/disclaimer.aspx>

From: Dave F <davefoxfa...@btinternet.com>
Sent: 24 April 2017 11:31:24
To: OSM Talk
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Coordinates in OSM. Really annoying

Hi

I'm unsure why go on about anyone being "thrown out".

I'm unsure why doing it inconsistently in the past in 'legacy' code is
any reason for not trying to sort it out for the future.

Programmers can reformat to any standard* of their desire /within/ their
own program. It can't be hard to do; it is, after all, pure ASCII text.
What's irritating is the responsibility oft the syntax has been passed
on to the end user.

What are the reasons the authors of the programs listed can't coordinate
with each other to simplify it for users within OSM community?

* Are they really adhering to a 'standard' or just doing it one way
because a competitor did it another?

DaveF

On 23/04/2017 08:29, Roland Olbricht wrote:
> Hi,
>
>> Is there /really/ any need for *six* coordinate formats? It's hard
>> enough to learn a new process without basics like this tripping you up.
>
> There is nobody who is trusted enough to set an universal standard:
> https://xkcd.com/927/
>
> Basically, there is an ISO standard
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_6709
> to have latitude before longitude. Leaflet complies, OpenLayers does not.
>
> This is for historical reasons. When multiple projections were
> commonplace as exchange formats, then they often used x and y as names
> for the two numbers, and x often decoded to something loosely or
> tightly related to longitude.
>
> However, OpenLayers is too useful to be thrown out just for having the
> wrong coordinate order. The same applies to a lot of other tools with
> legacy coordinate order.
>
> To have a gentle pressure towards the ISO standard, the advertised
> interface is latitude-longitude. There are some precautions for inert
> legacy tools:
> http://dev.overpass-api.de/blog/bounding_boxes.html#lonlat_bbox
>
> As Lester has pointed out, XML requires explicit parameter names. By
> the way, I am not aware of anybody actively using the XML syntax. You
> can safely ignore that.
>
> For the delimiter question: There are programming languages with a
> combined market share of almost 90% that agree to have to semanticy in
> whitespace. The sole widespread-used exception is Python. Once again:
> Are you seriously asking the OSM community for a crusade to throw out
> Python for minor syntactic infrigement?
>
> Beside Python, the delimiters are always commas and semi-colons. As
> commas tend to be used to delimit parameters, they are for the numbers
> of the bounding box the delimiters of choice.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Roland
>


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Re: [OSM-talk] Coordinates in OSM. Really annoying

[Dave F]

Hi

I'm unsure why go on about anyone being "thrown out".

I'm unsure why doing it inconsistently in the past in 'legacy' code is 
any reason for not trying to sort it out for the future.


Programmers can reformat to any standard* of their desire /within/ their 
own program. It can't be hard to do; it is, after all, pure ASCII text.
What's irritating is the responsibility oft the syntax has been passed 
on to the end user.


What are the reasons the authors of the programs listed can't coordinate 
with each other to simplify it for users within OSM community?


* Are they really adhering to a 'standard' or just doing it one way 
because a competitor did it another?


DaveF

On 23/04/2017 08:29, Roland Olbricht wrote:

Hi,


Is there /really/ any need for *six* coordinate formats? It's hard
enough to learn a new process without basics like this tripping you up.


There is nobody who is trusted enough to set an universal standard:
https://xkcd.com/927/

Basically, there is an ISO standard
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_6709
to have latitude before longitude. Leaflet complies, OpenLayers does not.

This is for historical reasons. When multiple projections were 
commonplace as exchange formats, then they often used x and y as names 
for the two numbers, and x often decoded to something loosely or 
tightly related to longitude.


However, OpenLayers is too useful to be thrown out just for having the 
wrong coordinate order. The same applies to a lot of other tools with 
legacy coordinate order.


To have a gentle pressure towards the ISO standard, the advertised 
interface is latitude-longitude. There are some precautions for inert 
legacy tools:

http://dev.overpass-api.de/blog/bounding_boxes.html#lonlat_bbox

As Lester has pointed out, XML requires explicit parameter names. By 
the way, I am not aware of anybody actively using the XML syntax. You 
can safely ignore that.


For the delimiter question: There are programming languages with a 
combined market share of almost 90% that agree to have to semanticy in 
whitespace. The sole widespread-used exception is Python. Once again: 
Are you seriously asking the OSM community for a crusade to throw out 
Python for minor syntactic infrigement?


Beside Python, the delimiters are always commas and semi-colons. As 
commas tend to be used to delimit parameters, they are for the numbers 
of the bounding box the delimiters of choice.


Cheers,

Roland




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Re: [OSM-talk] Coordinates in OSM. Really annoying

[Roland Olbricht]

Hi,


Is there /really/ any need for *six* coordinate formats? It's hard
enough to learn a new process without basics like this tripping you up.


There is nobody who is trusted enough to set an universal standard:
https://xkcd.com/927/

Basically, there is an ISO standard
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_6709
to have latitude before longitude. Leaflet complies, OpenLayers does not.

This is for historical reasons. When multiple projections were 
commonplace as exchange formats, then they often used x and y as names 
for the two numbers, and x often decoded to something loosely or tightly 
related to longitude.


However, OpenLayers is too useful to be thrown out just for having the 
wrong coordinate order. The same applies to a lot of other tools with 
legacy coordinate order.


To have a gentle pressure towards the ISO standard, the advertised 
interface is latitude-longitude. There are some precautions for inert 
legacy tools:

http://dev.overpass-api.de/blog/bounding_boxes.html#lonlat_bbox

As Lester has pointed out, XML requires explicit parameter names. By the 
way, I am not aware of anybody actively using the XML syntax. You can 
safely ignore that.


For the delimiter question: There are programming languages with a 
combined market share of almost 90% that agree to have to semanticy in 
whitespace. The sole widespread-used exception is Python. Once again: 
Are you seriously asking the OSM community for a crusade to throw out 
Python for minor syntactic infrigement?


Beside Python, the delimiters are always commas and semi-colons. As 
commas tend to be used to delimit parameters, they are for the numbers 
of the bounding box the delimiters of choice.


Cheers,

Roland


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Re: [Talk-GB] [OSM-talk] Coordinates in OSM. Really annoying

[SK53]

Hi Dan,

Yes I think it started on talk and has popped up here quite late on in the
discussion.

Jerry

On 22 April 2017 at 20:01, Dan S  wrote:

> Hi
>
> Did I miss some emails, or did someone redirect this thread to a
> different mailing list half-way through? I don't see what the latter
> would be for, in this case, so I'm wondering if I'm losing emails...!
>
> Thanks
> Dan
>
>
> 2017-04-22 16:23 GMT+01:00 Dave F :
> > In this context I'm unsure what you mean by "interface standards"
> >
> > On 22/04/2017 15:45, Lester Caine wrote:
> >>
> >> On 22/04/17 15:28, Dave F wrote:
> >>>
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] [OSM-talk] Coordinates in OSM. Really annoying

[Dave F]

Apologies Dan

Someone replied direct to me, I then typed wrong address when replying 
to the list. As you probably worked out, the previous posts are in OSM-Talk


DaveF

On 22/04/2017 20:01, Dan S wrote:

Hi

Did I miss some emails, or did someone redirect this thread to a
different mailing list half-way through? I don't see what the latter
would be for, in this case, so I'm wondering if I'm losing emails...!

Thanks
Dan


2017-04-22 16:23 GMT+01:00 Dave F :

In this context I'm unsure what you mean by "interface standards"

On 22/04/2017 15:45, Lester Caine wrote:

On 22/04/17 15:28, Dave F wrote:



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Re: [OSM-talk] Coordinates in OSM. Really annoying

[Viet Nguyen]

Not to mention [longitude, latitude] vs [latitude, longitude] issue.

I'm working on a web app using Leaflet library and had spent hours
debugging my own code trying to figure out why data points didn't show up
or showed up in the wrong continent.   As it turned out Leaflet expects [x,
y] cartesian coordinates or [latitude, longitude].  I just had to remember
flipping my coordinates.


Viet



On Sat, Apr 22, 2017 at 5:57 AM, Oleksiy Muzalyev <
oleksiy.muzal...@bluewin.ch> wrote:

> On 21.04.17 17:28, Dave F wrote:
>
>> Hi
>>
>> This is one of my OSM bugbears: http://osm.duschmarke.de/bbox.html
>>
>> Is there /really/ any need for *six* coordinate formats? It's hard enough
>> to learn a new process without basics like this tripping you up. Is there
>> any reason why the developers of these programs can't talk to each other &
>> simplify the situation?
>>
>> Cheers
>> DaveF.
>>
>> ---
>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>>
>>
>> ___
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>>
>
> Hi,
>
> But such a situation is the same everywhere. Take Plug & socket types
> http://www.worldstandards.eu/electricity/plugs-and-sockets/
>
> These plugs types (and adapters) are the cause of numerous problems for
> travelers (like searching in a town for an adapter at night, sigh...).
> However, it seems indeed people can't talk to each other.
>
> Cheers,
>
> O.
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Coordinates in OSM. Really annoying

[Jo]

On the left side, go figure! Or is that the right side?

2017-04-22 20:21 GMT+02:00 Martin Koppenhoefer :

>
>
> sent from a phone
>
> > On 22. Apr 2017, at 14:57, Oleksiy Muzalyev 
> wrote:
> >
> > But such a situation is the same everywhere.
>
>
> +1, there are even countries driving on the other side of the road than
> most of the others, willingly paying an extra for having manufactures
> producing vehicles with the steering where on the other side as well, just
> to name another example ;-)
>
> Cheers,
> Martin
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Re: [Talk-GB] [OSM-talk] Coordinates in OSM. Really annoying

[Dan S]

Hi

Did I miss some emails, or did someone redirect this thread to a
different mailing list half-way through? I don't see what the latter
would be for, in this case, so I'm wondering if I'm losing emails...!

Thanks
Dan


2017-04-22 16:23 GMT+01:00 Dave F :
> In this context I'm unsure what you mean by "interface standards"
>
> On 22/04/2017 15:45, Lester Caine wrote:
>>
>> On 22/04/17 15:28, Dave F wrote:
>>>

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Re: [OSM-talk] Coordinates in OSM. Really annoying

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> On 22. Apr 2017, at 14:57, Oleksiy Muzalyev  
> wrote:
> 
> But such a situation is the same everywhere.


+1, there are even countries driving on the other side of the road than most of 
the others, willingly paying an extra for having manufactures producing 
vehicles with the steering where on the other side as well, just to name 
another example ;-)

Cheers,
Martin 
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Re: [Talk-GB] [OSM-talk] Coordinates in OSM. Really annoying

[Lester Caine]

Looks like I fell fowl of another annoying 'standard' ... just how
replies to an email list are handled! If only people would use the same
standard everywhere ;)

On 22/04/17 16:23, Dave F wrote:
> In this context I'm unsure what you mean by "interface standards"

Working from the bottom ...
nik2img is a python application, so expects the list of parameters to be
listed with spaces ...
https://code.google.com/archive/p/mapnik-utils/wikis/Nik2Img.wiki it IS
actually using the box parameter, but in python scripts this is --bbox
mapnik supports several interfaces, and url style links prefer not to
use the space character, preferring the comma to break up strings.
Overpass actually comes with a number of interface standards and the
comma string can be used in OverpassQL (but the wrong pigging way around
;) ), but the XML standard requires each element has it's own name.
Osmosis is a java application and that brings another layer of
'flexibility' which requires every element of --bounding-box to be named
... and as with python each element is flagged by a space ...
essentially similar to the XML rules but with different element titles.

Each programming language has it's own well defined standards and there
is little chance we will be able to change those, so we end up with
wrappers which pass a coordinate set in the right format.
http://osm.duschmarke.de makes a number of those formats available in
parallel for those times when you may need to swap between languages ...

> On 22/04/2017 15:45, Lester Caine wrote:
>> On 22/04/17 15:28, Dave F wrote:
>>> As they're parameters, the format can be standardised for the end user &
>>> any programme should be able to sort out syntax behind the scenes.
>> Totally agree except passing box="w,s,e,n" is STILL a matter of the
>> passing mechanism the target application is built around. There would be
>> no problem with the box selector simply providing the right input via a
>> link to the target application, and a graphic interface providing a
>> suitable 'box' into which to put the coordinate string into for GUI
>> interfaces, but as I said ... the problem is the vast number of
>> interface standards currently in use and not a simple one to solve for
>> one piece of data. 

-- 
Lester Caine - G8HFL
-
Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact
L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk
EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/
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Re: [Talk-GB] [OSM-talk] Coordinates in OSM. Really annoying

[Dave F]

In this context I'm unsure what you mean by "interface standards"

On 22/04/2017 15:45, Lester Caine wrote:

On 22/04/17 15:28, Dave F wrote:

As they're parameters, the format can be standardised for the end user &
any programme should be able to sort out syntax behind the scenes.

Totally agree except passing box="w,s,e,n" is STILL a matter of the
passing mechanism the target application is built around. There would be
no problem with the box selector simply providing the right input via a
link to the target application, and a graphic interface providing a
suitable 'box' into which to put the coordinate string into for GUI
interfaces, but as I said ... the problem is the vast number of
interface standards currently in use and not a simple one to solve for
one piece of data.


On 22/04/2017 15:15, Lester Caine wrote:

On 22/04/17 14:19, Dave F wrote:

It's to provide the numerous coordinates format for each of the
programs. Select a boundary box (Alt+LButton mouse drag) & you get:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C-BP_QdWsAEN-Ac.jpg

I can't understand the need for the variations in syntax

Not worked out how to stop 'ALT' moving the window so I could not see
the results. :) Essentially there are two 'problems'. Overpass using
different orders on the different API has been a problem with other
API's, but the other 5 are all essentially the same and it would not
take much for them to take box="w,s,e,n" as an alternative input. But
the range of 'standards' for passing parameters is the problem here not
simply what is being passed. With each OS and programming language
having it's own style of working there is simply to many variables to
create a single standard :(





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Re: [OSM-talk] Coordinates in OSM. Really annoying

[Dave F]

As they're parameters, the format can be standardised for the end user & 
any programme should be able to sort out syntax behind the scenes.



On 22/04/2017 15:15, Lester Caine wrote:

On 22/04/17 14:19, Dave F wrote:

It's to provide the numerous coordinates format for each of the
programs. Select a boundary box (Alt+LButton mouse drag) & you get:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C-BP_QdWsAEN-Ac.jpg

I can't understand the need for the variations in syntax

Not worked out how to stop 'ALT' moving the window so I could not see
the results. :) Essentially there are two 'problems'. Overpass using
different orders on the different API has been a problem with other
API's, but the other 5 are all essentially the same and it would not
take much for them to take box="w,s,e,n" as an alternative input. But
the range of 'standards' for passing parameters is the problem here not
simply what is being passed. With each OS and programming language
having it's own style of working there is simply to many variables to
create a single standard :(




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Re: [OSM-talk] Coordinates in OSM. Really annoying

[Lester Caine]

On 22/04/17 14:19, Dave F wrote:
> It's to provide the numerous coordinates format for each of the
> programs. Select a boundary box (Alt+LButton mouse drag) & you get:
> 
> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C-BP_QdWsAEN-Ac.jpg
> 
> I can't understand the need for the variations in syntax

Not worked out how to stop 'ALT' moving the window so I could not see
the results. :) Essentially there are two 'problems'. Overpass using
different orders on the different API has been a problem with other
API's, but the other 5 are all essentially the same and it would not
take much for them to take box="w,s,e,n" as an alternative input. But
the range of 'standards' for passing parameters is the problem here not
simply what is being passed. With each OS and programming language
having it's own style of working there is simply to many variables to
create a single standard :(

-- 
Lester Caine - G8HFL
-
Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact
L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk
EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/
Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk
Rainbow Digital Media - http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk

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Re: [OSM-talk] Coordinates in OSM. Really annoying

[Dave F]

It's to provide the numerous coordinates format for each of the 
programs. Select a boundary box (Alt+LButton mouse drag) & you get:


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C-BP_QdWsAEN-Ac.jpg

I can't understand the need for the variations in syntax

DaveF

On 21/04/2017 17:28, Lester Caine wrote:

On 21/04/17 15:34, Max wrote:

On 2017년 04월 21일 16:28, Dave F wrote:

This is one of my OSM bugbears: http://osm.duschmarke.de/bbox.html

Can't use this tool, because alt + mouse click moves the whole window in
my desktop environment.

Shift/Mouse works to zoom but no idea what the tool is supposed to do :)




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Re: [OSM-talk] Coordinates in OSM. Really annoying

[Dave F]

Oh, agree OSM isn't unique, but considering it's a geocoded project, 
it's just embarrassing that coordinates can't be coordinated.


DaveF


On 22/04/2017 13:57, Oleksiy Muzalyev wrote:

On 21.04.17 17:28, Dave F wrote:

Hi

This is one of my OSM bugbears: http://osm.duschmarke.de/bbox.html

Is there /really/ any need for *six* coordinate formats? It's hard 
enough to learn a new process without basics like this tripping you 
up. Is there any reason why the developers of these programs can't 
talk to each other & simplify the situation?


Cheers
DaveF.

---
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Hi,

But such a situation is the same everywhere. Take Plug & socket types 
http://www.worldstandards.eu/electricity/plugs-and-sockets/


These plugs types (and adapters) are the cause of numerous problems 
for travelers (like searching in a town for an adapter at night, 
sigh...). However, it seems indeed people can't talk to each other.


Cheers,

O.




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Re: [OSM-talk] Coordinates in OSM. Really annoying

[Oleksiy Muzalyev]

On 21.04.17 17:28, Dave F wrote:

Hi

This is one of my OSM bugbears: http://osm.duschmarke.de/bbox.html

Is there /really/ any need for *six* coordinate formats? It's hard 
enough to learn a new process without basics like this tripping you 
up. Is there any reason why the developers of these programs can't 
talk to each other & simplify the situation?


Cheers
DaveF.

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Hi,

But such a situation is the same everywhere. Take Plug & socket types 
http://www.worldstandards.eu/electricity/plugs-and-sockets/


These plugs types (and adapters) are the cause of numerous problems for 
travelers (like searching in a town for an adapter at night, sigh...). 
However, it seems indeed people can't talk to each other.


Cheers,

O.


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Re: [OSM-talk] Coordinates in OSM. Really annoying

[Lester Caine]

On 21/04/17 15:34, Max wrote:
> On 2017년 04월 21일 16:28, Dave F wrote:
>> This is one of my OSM bugbears: http://osm.duschmarke.de/bbox.html
> 
> Can't use this tool, because alt + mouse click moves the whole window in
> my desktop environment.

Shift/Mouse works to zoom but no idea what the tool is supposed to do :)

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Re: [OSM-talk] Coordinates in OSM. Really annoying

[Dave F]

Looks a purely grammar problem to me.

On 21/04/2017 15:41, James wrote:

Could be for precision:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decimal_degrees#Precision

On Fri, Apr 21, 2017 at 10:28 AM, Dave F > wrote:


Hi

This is one of my OSM bugbears: http://osm.duschmarke.de/bbox.html


Is there /really/ any need for *six* coordinate formats? It's hard
enough to learn a new process without basics like this tripping
you up. Is there any reason why the developers of these programs
can't talk to each other & simplify the situation?

Cheers
DaveF.

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Re: [OSM-talk] Coordinates in OSM. Really annoying

[James]

Could be for precision:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decimal_degrees#Precision

On Fri, Apr 21, 2017 at 10:28 AM, Dave F 
wrote:

> Hi
>
> This is one of my OSM bugbears: http://osm.duschmarke.de/bbox.html
>
> Is there /really/ any need for *six* coordinate formats? It's hard enough
> to learn a new process without basics like this tripping you up. Is there
> any reason why the developers of these programs can't talk to each other &
> simplify the situation?
>
> Cheers
> DaveF.
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Coordinates in OSM. Really annoying

[Max]

On 2017년 04월 21일 16:28, Dave F wrote:

This is one of my OSM bugbears: http://osm.duschmarke.de/bbox.html


Can't use this tool, because alt + mouse click moves the whole window in 
my desktop environment.


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[OSM-talk] Coordinates in OSM. Really annoying

[Dave F]

Hi

This is one of my OSM bugbears: http://osm.duschmarke.de/bbox.html

Is there /really/ any need for *six* coordinate formats? It's hard 
enough to learn a new process without basics like this tripping you up. 
Is there any reason why the developers of these programs can't talk to 
each other & simplify the situation?


Cheers
DaveF.

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