Re: [OSM-talk] Survey: Bad Map Rendering
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Frederik Ramm wrote: | I'd be happy to hear from you about such areas of bad rendering, | whether they are bugs in there renderer(s) or just things that are | ugly for some reason. It's kind of been mentioned already, but Dual carriageways should turn into a thick road with a thin border-coloured line down the middle when the two sides of the road are close enough to touch at a particular zoom level. Currently they just blend into a single carriageway. Robert (Jamie) Munro -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFH55btz+aYVHdncI0RAuP8AJ9MyfFso6GWkKT7kLmIwTUQ0NFtqQCgxqDq pKA3ssTcuvtcSbrkweizJ+s= =QrYi -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Survey: Bad Map Rendering
Frederik Ramm skrev: For super bonus points, do all this in XSLT. Or while undergoing dental surgery. Bye Frederik You surely misswrote that, Frederik ? You must have meant an instead of dent ? ;) Having tried both, I can assure you the former is more painfull - and for a longer duration... :O Dutch ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Survey: Bad Map Rendering
2008/3/21, Mike Collinson [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Close roughly parallel ways, where the rendering of one way makes the other way disappear. Swedish cycleways (God's gift to mankind) next to roads are my nightmare, but I see other examples such as roads and railways/canals, big roads next to little roads, ... Mike +1 Maybe the solution could be to render thin objects (footpath, cycleway) above wider objects(primary, secondary, railway) _of the same layer_. Another idea i had some time ago was to make parallel ways of similar width not eating up each others borders or overlapping each other completely, but rendering a border in the middle between them, so each of them is losing width, but they do not overlap or melt(Example: residential, track or service next to railway in Osmarender). This could be a problem at junctions, but maybe this could be solved by detecting nodes shared by both ways and changing the rendering in some radius around them... -Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Survey: Bad Map Rendering
I'm sure each of you must have some pet peeve with our map rendering, some area you have mapped but which never looks right, Render name of peaks curved (I think on Mapnik they do not get rendered at all...). Make use of the paved/unpaved attribute. Osmarender seems to deal with this but I d not understand in which manner. Sometimes the borders of a track are dashed lines. Render highway=cycleway surface=paved as a real way and not similar to a simple footpath (dashed line). Osmarender is slightly better. If the name label of a way does not fit, use a footnote-like style to attach the name to the way. TBC ;-) ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Survey: Bad Map Rendering
On Fri, Mar 21, 2008 at 12:23:57PM +0100, Frederik Ramm wrote: I suggested to look into the rendering topic: Where are our current problems in rendering For me it's the routemap problem - how to represent multiple routes sharing the same street/line/etc, for example bus routes, named or numbered cycle routes, or metro lines (like the shared section of the Central and District lines in London). The expected traditional solution to this is toothpaste stripes - the colours of each route running alongside each other, but I don't know of a renderer that can do this automatically. I'd also like a quick and easy way to render printable streetmaps with street and point of interest indexes refering to an overlaid grid. I'm not sure if either of these fit your question! s ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Survey: Bad Map Rendering
Frederik Ramm wrote: Hi, I've been approached by a student of Geoinformatics who wants to write her Master's Thesis about something OSM related. I suggested to look into the rendering topic: Where are our current problems in rendering, can they be solved by simply improving the renderer(s) or will they need additional input from mappers in the form of hints or extra data, or are they maybe completely unsolvable for computers. I recognize this is more a general cartography topic than an OSM specific one, but our crowdsourcing powers might come in if it turns out that there are certain areas where map rendering could be improved dramatically if mappers did enter a few extra hints; nobody else could achieve that on a global scale but us. Most of the rendering questions involve how best to automate production of maps that look like the best paper maps. But one area that would be specific to electronic maps is user defined rendering. At present we have this as an option for anyone into writing xml and running there own rendering system. But is there a future for end user control of how prominent town names are at varying zoom levels, while they are driving? David ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Survey: Bad Map Rendering
Hi, I've been approached by a student of Geoinformatics who wants to write her Master's Thesis about something OSM related. I suggested to look into the rendering topic: Where are our current problems in rendering, can they be solved by simply improving the renderer(s) or will they need additional input from mappers in the form of hints or extra data, or are they maybe completely unsolvable for computers. I recognize this is more a general cartography topic than an OSM specific one, but our crowdsourcing powers might come in if it turns out that there are certain areas where map rendering could be improved dramatically if mappers did enter a few extra hints; nobody else could achieve that on a global scale but us. I'm sure each of you must have some pet peeve with our map rendering, some area you have mapped but which never looks right, some place where you're always tempted to edit the map tile with the GIMP before uploading it ;-) I'd be happy to hear from you about such areas of bad rendering, whether they are bugs in there renderer(s) or just things that are ugly for some reason. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail [EMAIL PROTECTED] ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Survey: Bad Map Rendering
Label placement. Sometimes the 'wrong' label gets precedent and one is hidden. Use spring-force placement on the labels to jiggle them until a fit is found. Anchor a virtual spring to the lat/lng of a node with place:city, name:Foo. The other end on to the label itself. Repeat with all the floating labels (ref: tags etc). Make all the nodes electorstatically repulsive, add friction and simulate a few iterations. Play about with values for the spring constant and repulsion coefficient until you find 'nice' values. For bonus points write a GA to find the nice values for you. For all I know mapnik already does something like this. For super bonus points, do all this in XSLT. On 21 Mar 2008, at 11:23, Frederik Ramm wrote: Hi, I've been approached by a student of Geoinformatics who wants to write her Master's Thesis about something OSM related. I suggested to look into the rendering topic: Where are our current problems in rendering, can they be solved by simply improving the renderer(s) or will they need additional input from mappers in the form of hints or extra data, or are they maybe completely unsolvable for computers. I recognize this is more a general cartography topic than an OSM specific one, but our crowdsourcing powers might come in if it turns out that there are certain areas where map rendering could be improved dramatically if mappers did enter a few extra hints; nobody else could achieve that on a global scale but us. I'm sure each of you must have some pet peeve with our map rendering, some area you have mapped but which never looks right, some place where you're always tempted to edit the map tile with the GIMP before uploading it ;-) I'd be happy to hear from you about such areas of bad rendering, whether they are bugs in there renderer(s) or just things that are ugly for some reason. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail [EMAIL PROTECTED] ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk have fun, SteveC | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.asklater.com/steve/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Survey: Bad Map Rendering
Frederik Ramm wrote: I'd be happy to hear from you about such areas of bad rendering, whether they are bugs in there renderer(s) or just things that are ugly for some reason. Label placement (as Steve's flagged) and generalisation (i.e. stretching the geographical truth to convey the information you want) are the two old chestnuts for automated cartography. The South Wales valleys are always a good case for generalisation: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.61lon=-3.333zoom=10layers=B0FT You have a narrow valley with (typically) one or two major roads, a railway, a river and a canal all crowded into it. How do you avoid them all ending up on top of each other at small scale? There is a vast amount of prior research on both these topics, so your student would have a lot of reading to do, but yes, the crowdsourcing approach could really add something. cheers Richard ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Survey: Bad Map Rendering
Frederik Ramm schrieb: I'd be happy to hear from you about such areas of bad rendering, whether they are bugs in there renderer(s) or just things that are ugly for some reason. I'm sure you are alluding to the redundant captions of ways that are split up for bridges or of dual carriageways. But I feel that problem needs to be solved by both, mappers and programmers. Surely it's possible for the renderer to analize name and ref-tags and assume that several pieces make up one whole way but that doesn't seem right to me. The data itself should tell that one way is a whole. Same applies to dual carriageways where the data should tell they belong together. Another thing that could purely be solved by code is placing additional captions on large objects. At high zooms you often have to pan in order to see the name of an object. Google has some kind of algorithm repeating a caption every x meters so that's always a caption within view. This applies to ways as well as areas (lakes). regards, Sven ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Survey: Bad Map Rendering
Maybe routing is an interesting area to research as it is related to rendering and hinting or additional input from mappers. This is all AFAIK, sorry if I'm wrong here: So far we've seen a few examples of routing using OSM data but no real 'measurement' of how 'good' this routing actually is. Also upscaling the areas that can be routed (e.g. a trip of 1000 km) is something that cannot be performed well with our data or by our routing applications. Large scale, 'publicly ready' routing by OSM is one of the major areas in which this project is lacking. Perhaps routing capabilities can be improved by the a student with a proper background who can spend some significant time on the subject. Perhaps starting with a little research on how well our data is suitable for routing as well as examining the existing solutions. Followed by suggestions to improvements, (partial) implementation of these improvements, test results on how well the improvements work and conclusions/recommendations. Frederik Ramm wrote: Hi, I've been approached by a student of Geoinformatics who wants to write her Master's Thesis about something OSM related. I suggested to look into the rendering topic: Where are our current problems in rendering, can they be solved by simply improving the renderer(s) or will they need additional input from mappers in the form of hints or extra data, or are they maybe completely unsolvable for computers. I recognize this is more a general cartography topic than an OSM specific one, but our crowdsourcing powers might come in if it turns out that there are certain areas where map rendering could be improved dramatically if mappers did enter a few extra hints; nobody else could achieve that on a global scale but us. I'm sure each of you must have some pet peeve with our map rendering, some area you have mapped but which never looks right, some place where you're always tempted to edit the map tile with the GIMP before uploading it ;-) I'd be happy to hear from you about such areas of bad rendering, whether they are bugs in there renderer(s) or just things that are ugly for some reason. Bye Frederik ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
