Re: [OSM-talk] Very not happy
Am 22.07.2012 00:42, schrieb andrzej zaborowski: On 21 July 2012 15:07, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: That's quite incorrect, millions of objects that were not flagged in those tools have been removed, Can both of you give us the object IDs of a couple of these objects to investigate? If you're asking me (not Maetma 91), I think the problem has been known since the early days of OSMI license view (easily fixable too). For example this city I believe was showing as clean although it was a while since I have looked at that layer: http://osm.org/go/0MtRfiBy- Here's a before/after the bot run comparison someone made for that city: http://postimage.org/image/sv7gh0rkp/ http://postimage.org/image/8m60yvx8j/ First of all that's not the ID(s) Frederik asked for. Secondly: if it has been known to you - did you provide a patch or at least a patch idea for it? If it has been known before that there has been an error, then you cannot complain about it suddenly being deleted against the OSMI view - because obviously you knew about that already. You don't have to be a coder: if you know something is wrong and you can point the responsible developer to it, most devs are happy about that. Of course that not necessarily would have lead anyone to fix it in seconds, probably even not to fix it before the bot ran, but being silent and waiting for the obvious to complain afterwards definitively isn't the nice way of doing. regards Peter ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Very not happy
Peter, On 22 July 2012 09:27, Peter Wendorff wendo...@uni-paderborn.de wrote: Am 22.07.2012 00:42, schrieb andrzej zaborowski: If you're asking me (not Maetma 91), I think the problem has been known since the early days of OSMI license view (easily fixable too). For example this city I believe was showing as clean although it was a while since I have looked at that layer: http://osm.org/go/0MtRfiBy- Here's a before/after the bot run comparison someone made for that city: http://postimage.org/image/sv7gh0rkp/ http://postimage.org/image/8m60yvx8j/ First of all that's not the ID(s) Frederik asked for. Secondly: if it has been known to you - did you provide a patch or at least a patch idea for it? Wow, I wonder how people manage to ignore so many facts. First of all, I have not been silent about it, quite the opposite and the issue must have been known to Frederik because I remember he participated in one of the mailing list threads about it in mid 2011. Secondly no one could provide such a patch because no one knows what the bot is going to remove and what the LWG will deem clean or dirty, the real discussions about what will the bot do started on the rebuild list just a couple of months ago. So are you even serious about the patch suggestion? In this particular case I have been discussing this issue with Simon Poole of the LWG on IRC the day before the but ran (Tuesday last week) and in the morning he decided that the objects would stay and apparently later the same day changed his mind (I hope I'm not misrepresenting what happened, if I am, sorry). If it has been known before that there has been an error, then you cannot complain about it suddenly being deleted against the OSMI view - because obviously you knew about that already. Oh my, please re-read the conversation. I haven't been complaining, I was not a user of OSMI. I simply pointed out a gross error in somebody's statement. Someone said something that was incorrect and very ironic in face of how much people's hard work has been removed, all I said is that this was incorrect. Cheers ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Very not happy
Le 21 juil. 2012 à 02:25, andrzej zaborowski balr...@gmail.com a écrit : On 21 July 2012 00:55, Lester Caine les...@lsces.co.uk wrote: Maetma 91 wrote: I do that. JOSM plugin say no problem and now you break everything The licence check tools would have been showing problems. Nothing has been removed that was not flagged in those tools. That's quite incorrect, millions of objects that were not flagged in those tools have been removed, I fully agree and support that ! I remapped a lot of things mainly in France, BAD map stopped showing them, JOSM plugin stopped report it as non compliant... But they are gone after the redaction bot pass... Vlad. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Very not happy
On 07/21/2012 12:20 AM, Maetma 91 wrote: Today I look at the map and I see that lot work I do last year is gone. Did you accept the license change? If you did, someone else may have done larger changes to your work or may have removed and replaced it with something else (but you didn't notice). Or the redaction bot may have had some error... I didn't read about the redaction being run until yesterday, as I spent last week in hospital and also had some very busy weeks before. I'm not happy about it myself, but at some point it had to be done and it didn't come unannounced. I live in Berlin, Germany and some bigger spots went missing here as well but surprisingly it's not that serious and mostly can be easily repaired. Details (like ATMs, banks, bars, ...) are harder to replace than streets, parks and buildings but maybe it's not bad as those details may have been needing an update anyway. I already fixed some minor objects yesterday that went missing around the hospital I was in and may re-add some more stuff today. I suppose, the larger damage (parks, sights, main roads) will be repaired quickly. If I think back at how Berlin looked in OSM only a few years ago and how fast it improved, the wound inflicted by license redaction may look severe but will heal fast enough. What OSM lost for the moment is mainly commercial usability. In my opinion, every project or company using OSM data should have been advised to temporarily freeze their databases before redaction began, but I don't know if that happened. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Very not happy
Hi, On 21.07.2012 13:19, Vladimir Vyskocil wrote: That's quite incorrect, millions of objects that were not flagged in those tools have been removed, I fully agree and support that ! I remapped a lot of things mainly in France, BAD map stopped showing them, JOSM plugin stopped report it as non compliant... But they are gone after the redaction bot pass... Can both of you give us the object IDs of a couple of these objects to investigate? Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Very not happy
On 21 juil. 2012, at 15:07, Frederik Ramm wrote: Hi, On 21.07.2012 13:19, Vladimir Vyskocil wrote: That's quite incorrect, millions of objects that were not flagged in those tools have been removed, I fully agree and support that ! I remapped a lot of things mainly in France, BAD map stopped showing them, JOSM plugin stopped report it as non compliant... But they are gone after the redaction bot pass... Can both of you give us the object IDs of a couple of these objects to investigate? It's a bit hard to found but I looked a area where I'm sure I have done remapping and where many objects have been removed. I'm now surprised to understand that those objects seems to have been removed by a contributor BEFORE the redaction bot pass ! I still don't know why he did this, I'll try to contact him, but I suspect some sort of vandalism... So, for now I'm not confident any more that the bot is the culprit in my case, sorry. Bye Frederik Cheers, Vlad. -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Very not happy
On 21 July 2012 15:07, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: That's quite incorrect, millions of objects that were not flagged in those tools have been removed, Can both of you give us the object IDs of a couple of these objects to investigate? If you're asking me (not Maetma 91), I think the problem has been known since the early days of OSMI license view (easily fixable too). For example this city I believe was showing as clean although it was a while since I have looked at that layer: http://osm.org/go/0MtRfiBy- Here's a before/after the bot run comparison someone made for that city: http://postimage.org/image/sv7gh0rkp/ http://postimage.org/image/8m60yvx8j/ Cheers ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Very not happy
Today I look at the map and I see that lots road where I live is gone. Today I look at the map and I see that lot work I do last year is gone. Today I am VERY NOT HAPPY. I am sorry but now I will use map from Google because they do not remove road or brake people work. Before I say to my friends Use Openstreetmap it is cool and today they laugh me and say Openstreetmap is shit, it miss lots roads This night I spend lot time repairing what you break from the map but it is endless because you remove a lot. You say France is 99.9% correct. This is lie. There are lots road gone. Map is no use now. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Very not happy
On Fri, Jul 20, 2012 at 3:20 PM, Maetma 91 maetm...@gmail.com wrote: Before I say to my friends Use Openstreetmap it is cool and today they laugh me and say Openstreetmap is shit, it miss lots roads So fix it. Also, this could have been prevented in advance by using the license review tools prior to the changeover. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Very not happy
I understand your reaction, but this has been announced for a long time now. Around where I live and practically in all of Belgium hardly anything disappeared. This is due to the hard work of myself and others to remap non ODBL compliant stuff before the bot ran. I've also been contacting people, trying to convince them to agree, which often worked. In only 2 or 3 cases of large contributors it didn't. So we worked on it. Which you can either choose to do as well. Or you can join the crowd and use maps which you can't improve or reuse for your own needs. In a few weeks/months all will be well again and the map will keep improving once more. Even though it may seem dramatic, this is only a minor setback. Cheers, Polyglot 2012/7/21 Maetma 91 maetm...@gmail.com Today I look at the map and I see that lots road where I live is gone. Today I look at the map and I see that lot work I do last year is gone. Today I am VERY NOT HAPPY. I am sorry but now I will use map from Google because they do not remove road or brake people work. Before I say to my friends Use Openstreetmap it is cool and today they laugh me and say Openstreetmap is shit, it miss lots roads This night I spend lot time repairing what you break from the map but it is endless because you remove a lot. You say France is 99.9% correct. This is lie. There are lots road gone. Map is no use now. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Very not happy
Maetma 91 wrote: Today I look at the map and I see that lots road where I live is gone. Today I look at the map and I see that lot work I do last year is gone. Today I am VERY NOT HAPPY. I am sorry but now I will use map from Google because they do not remove road or brake people work. Before I say to my friends Use Openstreetmap it is cool and today they laugh me and say Openstreetmap is shit, it miss lots roads This night I spend lot time repairing what you break from the map but it is endless because you remove a lot. You say France is 99.9% correct. This is lie. There are lots road gone. Map is no use now. Maetma 91 we have been fighting for over a year now to get people to fix areas of the map where there were problems with the sources of the data. In the UK we have remapped large areas where the original contributor refused to allow their work to be more openly licensed. Areas that either needed the author to approve the new license or we needed to identify alternative data had been advertised for a long time, but unfortunately in a lot of cases nobody came forward to sort the problem data. I'm pleased to say that I addressed a large area around here and cleaned the data, but we need local contributor to do that in their own area. The new map data is now totally compliant with the more open license and any new data will have to remain complaint. So the only reason data has gone missing is because nobody has bothered to clean it up :( -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk Rainbow Digital Media - http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Very not happy
On Fri, Jul 20, 2012 at 10:39 PM, Jo winfi...@gmail.com wrote: Which you can either choose to do as well. Or you can join the crowd and use maps which you can't improve or reuse for your own needs. -- There are also other alternatives, but I wont reiterate them because it is not on topic for this list. Your work has been saved and not lost, all the deleted data has been saved and is online. contact me if you want to know where. thanks, mike James Michael DuPont Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova http://flossk.org Contributor FOSM, the CC-BY-SA map of the world http://fosm.org Mozilla Rep https://reps.mozilla.org/u/h4ck3rm1k3 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Very not happy
Maetma 91 wrote: I do that. JOSM plugin say no problem and now you break everything The licence check tools would have been showing problems. Nothing has been removed that was not flagged in those tools. So the only reason data has gone missing is because nobody has bothered to clean it up :( That phrase is INSULT to all people work hard to Sorry you feel that way, but it's just a statement of fact ... some areas of the UK have also been wiped because we did not have time to repair them but waiting another year for this process was just creating more and more problems :( -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk Rainbow Digital Media - http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Very not happy
On 21 July 2012 00:55, Lester Caine les...@lsces.co.uk wrote: Maetma 91 wrote: I do that. JOSM plugin say no problem and now you break everything The licence check tools would have been showing problems. Nothing has been removed that was not flagged in those tools. That's quite incorrect, millions of objects that were not flagged in those tools have been removed, while millions of others that showed red (that's not an exaggeration, I don't know how many but it's over three millions that I know of) were in fact ODbL-clean and may end up not being removed. Cheers ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
