Re: [OSM-talk] Continuous audio in JOSM on tracks without waypoints
On 25/02/2008 00:46, 80n wrote: 2) While audio is playing, when I clicked on an audio marker it caused JOSM to hang. OK. I'll see if I can reproduce it. Can you be more specific? It happened several times when I first started using it, but now that I've figured out how to do it properly I can't make it do it any more. I'll let you know. I think I know what this is - I think it mat have been trying to jump to a position off the end and never getting there. This will be easy to fix if I'm right. 3) The Open dialog for audio files does not appear to remember the last place that was used. Other open dialogs in JOSM do. Curious. I'm not aware of doing anything different. Maybe there is an extra step I missed. I think I know why this is as well now. David ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Continuous audio in JOSM on tracks without waypoints
On 25/02/2008 01:23, J.D. Schmidt wrote: Could this work with video media files ? I've invested in an Oregon Scientific ACT2000 solid state helmet cam ( http://tinyurl.com/22zaep ) for use when driving my cityscooter. It has audio input too, but the audio tends to be drowned out by the motor and wind sounds. I'm planning on using it when mapping, logging data for Wigle and OSM on the laptop and the Magellan CrossoverGPS, and filming the route as well as roadsigns with the helmet cam (sample movie in DivX format on http://www.stage6.com/user/DutchDK ). Loading up the stream and seeing it in a seperate window in sync with the gpx log in JOSM could be great ;) I am sure the same technique for syncing and controlling it would work. We'd just need a video player. There appears to be a thing called Java Media Framework which addresses this, and could probably just replace the rather simple thread already there (at a brief glance it looks like the interface is not too dissimilar). It may require users to install an additional Java component, though I'm not sure. So the answer is yes in principle, but don't expect it tomorrow. David ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Continuous audio in JOSM on tracks without waypoints
On 25/02/2008 01:09, Frederik Ramm wrote:
Hi,
OK, can be arranged I'm sure. How about '[' and ']' with '{' and '}' for
next and last marker?
On a German keyboard these are on AltGr-7 to AltGr-0 which would make
them less than ideal.
Hmm. OK, I see we are hardly using the function keys, so F5-F8 are
presumably in a row on most keyboards, though some very compact
keyboards may have a special shift key to get at them.
Maybe one could at least make them configurable?
I think would be good, but we should address it as a whole.
I don't seem to be able to get at { and } BTW, but I may not be
understanding the keyboard mapping properly - I need to drill down a bit
more into the existing code.
David
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Re: [OSM-talk] Continuous audio in JOSM on tracks without waypoints
I've fixed the following that 80n reported (will be in tomorrow's JOSM build): 1. Hang on trying to play audio It was indeed playing at a marker off the end of the sound track that was the cause. It now tells you this instead of hanging. 2. Open WAV file dialogs don't remember their directory They do now. Note this is independent of other open file dialogs. 3. Short cut keys | F5, F6, F7, | F8, . . as before 4. Toggle icons but not the audio play head Right menu on layer, Show/Hide Text/Icons (2nd entry). [I usurped the previous Show/Hide Text for this, as previously button marker layers didn't have text anyway, so the action was previously redundant for such layers. It does leave the tiny X that a plain waypoint marker uses to mark the point, but I'm sure this won't get in the way. (One special case of general marker waypoints with icons will be affected by this: if it is a problem for anyone let me know and I'll make the behaviour optional. I don't actually know how you can produce such a layer).] David ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Continuous audio in JOSM on tracks without waypoints
David Thanks, I can't wait to try all this. BTW I just had a very successful experiment this morning using a modified kitchen sponge http://img.alibaba.com/photo/50923335/Kitchen_Sponge_Scourers.jpg as a windshield for my bluetooth headset :) 80n On Mon, Feb 25, 2008 at 12:00 PM, David Earl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've fixed the following that 80n reported (will be in tomorrow's JOSM build): 1. Hang on trying to play audio It was indeed playing at a marker off the end of the sound track that was the cause. It now tells you this instead of hanging. 2. Open WAV file dialogs don't remember their directory They do now. Note this is independent of other open file dialogs. 3. Short cut keys | F5, F6, F7, | F8, . . as before 4. Toggle icons but not the audio play head Right menu on layer, Show/Hide Text/Icons (2nd entry). [I usurped the previous Show/Hide Text for this, as previously button marker layers didn't have text anyway, so the action was previously redundant for such layers. It does leave the tiny X that a plain waypoint marker uses to mark the point, but I'm sure this won't get in the way. (One special case of general marker waypoints with icons will be affected by this: if it is a problem for anyone let me know and I'll make the behaviour optional. I don't actually know how you can produce such a layer).] David ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Continuous audio in JOSM on tracks without waypoints
80n wrote: BTW I just had a very successful experiment this morning using a modified kitchen sponge http://img.alibaba.com/photo/50923335/Kitchen_Sponge_Scourers.jpg as a windshield for my bluetooth headset :) Ah, but we wanted the photo of you wearing it while explaining yourself to casual passers-by ;-) Graham 80n On Mon, Feb 25, 2008 at 12:00 PM, David Earl [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've fixed the following that 80n reported (will be in tomorrow's JOSM build): 1. Hang on trying to play audio It was indeed playing at a marker off the end of the sound track that was the cause. It now tells you this instead of hanging. 2. Open WAV file dialogs don't remember their directory They do now. Note this is independent of other open file dialogs. 3. Short cut keys | F5, F6, F7, | F8, . . as before 4. Toggle icons but not the audio play head Right menu on layer, Show/Hide Text/Icons (2nd entry). [I usurped the previous Show/Hide Text for this, as previously button marker layers didn't have text anyway, so the action was previously redundant for such layers. It does leave the tiny X that a plain waypoint marker uses to mark the point, but I'm sure this won't get in the way. (One special case of general marker waypoints with icons will be affected by this: if it is a problem for anyone let me know and I'll make the behaviour optional. I don't actually know how you can produce such a layer).] David ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Continuous audio in JOSM on tracks without waypoints
Hi, I just noticed that this whole discussion is on talk, ignoring the fact that we have a josm-dev mailing list. Maybe talk's ok for announcements every now and then but perhaps we should continue the detailed discussion to josm-dev? David Earl wrote: I've fixed the following that 80n reported (will be in tomorrow's JOSM build): Since there seems to be some interest, I've run an interim build so that everything commited until a few minutes ago is now in the josm-latest.jar. Bye Frederik ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Continuous audio in JOSM on tracks without waypoints
On Mon, Feb 25, 2008 at 12:28 PM, graham [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 80n wrote: BTW I just had a very successful experiment this morning using a modified kitchen sponge http://img.alibaba.com/photo/50923335/Kitchen_Sponge_Scourers.jpg as a windshield for my bluetooth headset :) Ah, but we wanted the photo of you wearing it while explaining yourself to casual passers-by ;-) I only plan to use it after dark ;) Graham 80n On Mon, Feb 25, 2008 at 12:00 PM, David Earl [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've fixed the following that 80n reported (will be in tomorrow's JOSM build): 1. Hang on trying to play audio It was indeed playing at a marker off the end of the sound track that was the cause. It now tells you this instead of hanging. 2. Open WAV file dialogs don't remember their directory They do now. Note this is independent of other open file dialogs. 3. Short cut keys | F5, F6, F7, | F8, . . as before 4. Toggle icons but not the audio play head Right menu on layer, Show/Hide Text/Icons (2nd entry). [I usurped the previous Show/Hide Text for this, as previously button marker layers didn't have text anyway, so the action was previously redundant for such layers. It does leave the tiny X that a plain waypoint marker uses to mark the point, but I'm sure this won't get in the way. (One special case of general marker waypoints with icons will be affected by this: if it is a problem for anyone let me know and I'll make the behaviour optional. I don't actually know how you can produce such a layer).] David ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Continuous audio in JOSM on tracks without waypoints
80n skrev: On Mon, Feb 25, 2008 at 12:28 PM, graham [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 80n wrote: BTW I just had a very successful experiment this morning using a modified kitchen sponge http://img.alibaba.com/photo/50923335/Kitchen_Sponge_Scourers.jpg as a windshield for my bluetooth headset :) Ah, but we wanted the photo of you wearing it while explaining yourself to casual passers-by ;-) I only plan to use it after dark ;) LOL.. One of these days I'll get someone to take a snapshot of me in full OSM/Wigle mapping gear on the cityscooter, and post it on the Wiki. Magellan CrossoverGPS in automotive mode mounted with the windshieldsuctionmount on the handlebar instrumentpanel, videocam strapped on to the lefthand side of the black flip-up helmet, and wearing a backpack with WiFi antennas and bluelit Pharaos GPS mouse sticking out. No wonder cardrivers are slowing down and following the speedlimit when they observe me. The things you do when suffering from OCOSMD continues to amaze me... :P Dutch ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Continuous audio in JOSM on tracks without waypoints
And one more innovation that 80n asked for... fast (and also slow) forward. The fast forward menu entry (button, F9) speeds up playback by 1.3 times, and if you press it again by a further 1.3 times and so on (up to a very fast playback determined by the capability of the audio system and the rate of the WAV file you're playing). The slow forward (SHIFT+F9) slows you down again, and can go slower than real time (I thought this might be useful if you're trying to type what it is saying as it plays). The 1.3 is configurable in the Audio preferences, if you want faster or slower acceleration. Incidentally, fast backwards is _much_ harder, so I don't plan on doing that. David ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Continuous audio in JOSM on tracks without waypoints
On Mon, Feb 25, 2008 at 12:28 PM, graham [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 80n wrote: BTW I just had a very successful experiment this morning using a modified kitchen sponge http://img.alibaba.com/photo/50923335/Kitchen_Sponge_Scourers.jpg as a windshield for my bluetooth headset :) Ah, but we wanted the photo of you wearing it while explaining yourself to casual passers-by ;-) I'm sure you want to see it: http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g51/80n80n/25022008429.jpg Graham 80n On Mon, Feb 25, 2008 at 12:00 PM, David Earl [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've fixed the following that 80n reported (will be in tomorrow's JOSM build): 1. Hang on trying to play audio It was indeed playing at a marker off the end of the sound track that was the cause. It now tells you this instead of hanging. 2. Open WAV file dialogs don't remember their directory They do now. Note this is independent of other open file dialogs. 3. Short cut keys | F5, F6, F7, | F8, . . as before 4. Toggle icons but not the audio play head Right menu on layer, Show/Hide Text/Icons (2nd entry). [I usurped the previous Show/Hide Text for this, as previously button marker layers didn't have text anyway, so the action was previously redundant for such layers. It does leave the tiny X that a plain waypoint marker uses to mark the point, but I'm sure this won't get in the way. (One special case of general marker waypoints with icons will be affected by this: if it is a problem for anyone let me know and I'll make the behaviour optional. I don't actually know how you can produce such a layer).] David ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Continuous audio in JOSM on tracks without waypoints
David I gave it a try today. The results were excellent. I have some feedback: 1) I found synchronising to be a bit tricky the first time you do it. This wasn't helped by the fact that I had 20 minutes of tracks before I started the audio recorder. I've updated the wiki with what I hope are clearer and better instructions. 2) While audio is playing, when I clicked on an audio marker it caused JOSM to hang. 3) The Open dialog for audio files does not appear to remember the last place that was used. Other open dialogs in JOSM do. 4) It would be nice to have keyboard shortcuts for Forward and Backwards. 5) It would be nice to hide the audio markers without also hiding the orange cursor. I don't use waypoints and found that using the orange cursor and the forward and backward buttons was all that I needed most of the time. 6) Lastly, it would be really nice if it was possible to play the audio at varying speeds. For long roads if I've made occasionals marks I don't really want to listen to the whole recording in real time, but there's not really any way of knowing where the next one will be without listening to the whole recording. Variable play speed would help with this. Overall I really like it :) 80n On Sat, Feb 23, 2008 at 10:29 PM, David Earl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Having done a two-hour long audio recording today, I find that waypoints near the end have drifted a bit. It was about 8 seconds out after about 100 minutes. I did find one problem whereby the audio player wasn't jumping ahead as far as I thought it was when you pressed the marker, which I have released a change for. But that doesn't fix the problem. I need to look into this a bit further, and there may well be a timing bug still in there somewhere, but I am also wondering whether the clock on my dictaphone is not all that accurate. I'd be interested to know whether anyone else sees discrepancies, but I suggest getting tonight's build to try it in. In the meantime, be warned, and be prepared to put a synchronisation point in say every half hour or so. (You can synchronise at more than one place along a track - you might have paused the recording, for example). David ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Continuous audio in JOSM on tracks without waypoints
David Earl skrev:
On 24/02/2008 22:16, 80n wrote:
David
I gave it a try today. The results were excellent.
Do you have any feeling for how accurate the timer on your audio was by
the end of the session?
I have some feedback:
1) I found synchronising to be a bit tricky the first time you do it.
This wasn't helped by the fact that I had 20 minutes of tracks before I
started the audio recorder. I've updated the wiki with what I hope are
clearer and better instructions.
That was only relevant to the non-waypoint version, so I just moved it
up a bit into that section. If you're using waypoints, you'd always sync
on a GPS-defined marker, and it is much easier.
Your instructions are spot on though for the non-waypoint case.
2) While audio is playing, when I clicked on an audio marker it caused
JOSM to hang.
OK. I'll see if I can reproduce it. Can you be more specific?
3) The Open dialog for audio files does not appear to remember the last
place that was used. Other open dialogs in JOSM do.
Curious. I'm not aware of doing anything different. Maybe there is an
extra step I missed.
4) It would be nice to have keyboard shortcuts for Forward and Backwards.
OK, can be arranged I'm sure. How about '[' and ']' with '{' and '}' for
next and last marker? Assuming the system will let me do that - it
wouldn't let me have the spacebar for the play /pause for reasons I
don't understand.
5) It would be nice to hide the audio markers without also hiding the
orange cursor. I don't use waypoints and found that using the orange
cursor and the forward and backward buttons was all that I needed most
of the time.
I'm surprised your audio was dense enough that you didn't have to jump
to new locations using the markers - I get minutes of silence when I'm
audio mapping. My two hour expedition on Saturday generated 140-odd
waypoints, roughly one a minute.
But again, I imagine that wouldn't be too hard. I hadn't actually
realised the play head vanished with the markers. I guess the graphics
context I'm given to paint with is that for the layer.
6) Lastly, it would be really nice if it was possible to play the audio
at varying speeds. For long roads if I've made occasionals marks I don't
really want to listen to the whole recording in real time, but there's
not really any way of knowing where the next one will be without
listening to the whole recording.
That's why creating waypoints help, but I know from experience with my
Garmin, the combination of key presses makes in unfeasible while moving
on a bike. The single tap on my adapted version of MaemoMapper on the
Nokia is much, much better in this respect.
If you're on a bike though you could mimic waypoints though - if you
adopt a procedure where you always either speak just after you turn into
a junction or when you do a loop loop in the road, then you can use the
artificial markers to speed up jumping through the sound track.
Variable play speed would help with this.
I imagine I could fake the sample rate, or something like that. I'll
investigate. This is probably a bit more complicated than the rest.
Overall I really like it :)
Thanks. My feeling is that it makes me safer when I'm out mapping,
because I don't have trailing wires and don't have to keep pressing the
pause on my recorder.
David
Could this work with video media files ? I've invested in an Oregon
Scientific ACT2000 solid state helmet cam ( http://tinyurl.com/22zaep )
for use when driving my cityscooter. It has audio input too, but the
audio tends to be drowned out by the motor and wind sounds. I'm planning
on using it when mapping, logging data for Wigle and OSM on the laptop
and the Magellan CrossoverGPS, and filming the route as well as
roadsigns with the helmet cam (sample movie in DivX format on
http://www.stage6.com/user/DutchDK ).
Loading up the stream and seeing it in a seperate window in sync with
the gpx log in JOSM could be great ;)
Dutch
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Re: [OSM-talk] Continuous audio in JOSM on tracks without waypoints
On 25/02/2008, J.D. Schmidt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Could this work with video media files ? I've invested in an Oregon Scientific ACT2000 solid state helmet cam ( http://tinyurl.com/22zaep ) for use when driving my cityscooter. It has audio input too, but the cool, will you be contributing the videos to openstreetview.org ? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Continuous audio in JOSM on tracks without waypoints
Robin Paulson skrev: On 25/02/2008, J.D. Schmidt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Could this work with video media files ? I've invested in an Oregon Scientific ACT2000 solid state helmet cam ( http://tinyurl.com/22zaep ) for use when driving my cityscooter. It has audio input too, but the cool, will you be contributing the videos to openstreetview.org ? If you set up that site, you can just link to the files on stage6 - saves me from uploading the multiple MB video files to two places... ;) Seriously though, driving the scooter or the MC, while attempting to take snapshots of roadsigns is detrimenttal to your health, and that is what prompted me to purchase the helmetcam. If the resulting video stream could be utilized in conjunction with a GPX tracklog in JOSM, in the same way as an audio stream, it would be another great way of documenting the names of roads. Dutch ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Continuous audio in JOSM on tracks without waypoints
Having done a two-hour long audio recording today, I find that waypoints near the end have drifted a bit. It was about 8 seconds out after about 100 minutes. I did find one problem whereby the audio player wasn't jumping ahead as far as I thought it was when you pressed the marker, which I have released a change for. But that doesn't fix the problem. I need to look into this a bit further, and there may well be a timing bug still in there somewhere, but I am also wondering whether the clock on my dictaphone is not all that accurate. I'd be interested to know whether anyone else sees discrepancies, but I suggest getting tonight's build to try it in. In the meantime, be warned, and be prepared to put a synchronisation point in say every half hour or so. (You can synchronise at more than one place along a track - you might have paused the recording, for example). David ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Continuous audio in JOSM on tracks without waypoints
On 21/02/2008 23:56, David Earl wrote: One thing I realised just cycling along this evening, having stepped back from the project for a while, is that when you don't have a waypoint at the start it is hard to synchronise on a marker, because it they are sampled, not related to any specific point, so to make this truly useful I need to add something to let you adjust or identify the sync point. What I did in the end (now checked in for tomorrow's build) was to give a new operation Make Audio Marker At Play Head on the right button menu of an audio layer (particularly the artificial one arising from Make Sampled Audio Layer). You play the audio (typically from the automatically generated marker before the landmark where you will synchronise, ignoring what the sound track is saying) and pause audio when you see the orange play head arrow reach the sync landmark. Then choose Make Audio Marker At Play Head and it will make you a marker, which you can then choose to synchronise with. (You really need to have been moving as you pass the landmark to ensure there is no ambiguity as to the time at the location you pause at.) Synchronise the audio to that new point as before, by playing from that new marker, pausing when the audio reaches your NOW cue, and choose Synchronize Audio. If your dictaphone was started before the first point of the GPS track, you'll need to use the rewind button to step back to the sync cue - not play from an earlier marker, as that would then sync to that marker, which is not what you want. Note that you can also use Make Audio Marker At Play Head to add additional markers in the track, if you want to play the audio more than once or twice where the sampling didn't put a convenient marker, or if you _are_ using waypoints then at a location where you forgot to mark one. Additionally, I've set the audio tracing to be on by default (you need to see the arrow to make use of the new facility). David ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Continuous audio in JOSM on tracks without waypoints
Yes, this sounds great. I don't tend to log explicit waypoints so this is going to be much more useful for me. Did you think about having a little arrow or some sort of marker that followed the trace as you played the audio or is there some specific reason that this would not be possible? John On 20 Feb 2008, at 19:17, 80n wrote: David This sounds like it will be super cool (sorry about the pun). I'll be trying this out on my next expedition. Etienne On Wed, Feb 20, 2008 at 6:16 PM, David Earl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: To augment continuous audio synchronized with waypoints that I mailed about earlier this week, I have now also added the facility to work with continuous audio recordings on tracks where you don't have or don't want to use explicit GPS waypoints. This will be in tomorrow's JOSM build. After loading your GPX track, right click on the GPX layer and choose the new Make Sampled Audio Layer option. This will ask for your WAV file; then it will create a new layer combining the audio track with the GPX trackpoints to produce a set of audio markers laid out along the track. These will be at least 15 seconds and 75 metres apart, or whatever values you choose for these in Advanced Preferences settings for marker.audiosampleminsecs and marker.audiosampleminmetres respectively)(*). You're then in a similar position to applying audio to explicit waypoints as per my previous changes: you can synchronise to a marker near the beginning of the track, play by reference to the visual position on the map, jump forward and back in the commentary, pause and resume and so on. The sampled markers are named according to the time offset from the beginning of the sound track (e.g. 1:37, 1:09:07). To facilitate this, I've reversed the default for whether to show text for button markers (audio, image and web), but you can turn these off as before, transiently from the right button layer menu, or permanently by setting marker.buttonlabels to false in Advanced Preferences. David (*) the defaults are chosen so that they are about the same for a cyclist travelling at 5 metres per second (about 11mph or 18km/h), so you get a useful but not overwhelming number of samples, but if you stop or slow down, you don't suddenly get a concentration of points close together. Of course if you stop and then record intermittently, you'll still find it hard to locate the bit of commentary you want - the whole idea is it is related to landmark junctions or loops you make in the road or whatever. If you're in a car you might want to set the sample time a bit shorter, say 7.5 in an urban environment, though the distance would probably be the same unless you actually want a higher or lower density, and maybe 60 to 90 seconds apart if walking at a typical 1 m/s. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Continuous audio in JOSM on tracks without waypoints
On 21/02/2008 09:26, John McKerrell wrote: Yes, this sounds great. I don't tend to log explicit waypoints so this is going to be much more useful for me. Did you think about having a little arrow or some sort of marker that followed the trace as you played the audio or is there some specific reason that this would not be possible? JASMOP and I didn't think of it. I'll think of it now! David ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Continuous audio in JOSM on tracks without waypoints
David Earl wrote: Sent: 21 February 2008 10:31 AM To: John McKerrell Cc: OSM Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Continuous audio in JOSM on tracks without waypoints On 21/02/2008 09:26, John McKerrell wrote: Yes, this sounds great. I don't tend to log explicit waypoints so this is going to be much more useful for me. Did you think about having a little arrow or some sort of marker that followed the trace as you played the audio or is there some specific reason that this would not be possible? JASMOP and I didn't think of it. I'll think of it now! You might think about the format of the moving marker. Perhaps selected by a user preference. Say a stick man, bike or car :-D Cheers Andy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Continuous audio in JOSM on tracks without waypoints
Andy Robinson (blackadder) wrote: You might think about the format of the moving marker. Perhaps selected by a user preference. Say a stick man, bike or car :-D Why not auto select by apparent speed? ;) ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Continuous audio in JOSM on tracks without waypoints
On 21/02/2008 09:26, John McKerrell wrote: Yes, this sounds great. I don't tend to log explicit waypoints so this is going to be much more useful for me. Did you think about having a little arrow or some sort of marker that followed the trace as you played the audio or is there some specific reason that this would not be possible? OK, your wish is my command. From tomorrow's build, once you turn the feature on, a little orange arrow can track your position on the track with reference to the audio. (I noted the request for different icons, but I've just done it with an arrowhead at present; I've run out of time today). There is also a preferences tab for audio control now rather than just using Advanced Preferences, and you have to turn this feature on (it is off by default - perhaps I should reverse this, but we'll see how it goes). You can also directly set the timing values and so on that I mentioned before. The effect is quite mesmeric. One thing I didn't appreciate until I saw it working though is that you no longer need make a loop or anything else on your GPS. As long as you have a known point to sync to at the start, you can then just dictate White Swan pub on the left NOW, and the orange arrow will point to where you were when you said NOW. That is really quite a neat feature - perhaps you had realised that consequence - I hadn't. The trace works for audio derived from waymarks or by sampling (or indeed from audio waypoints in the original GPX file). David ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Continuous audio in JOSM on tracks without waypoints
On 21 Feb 2008, at 19:04, David Earl wrote: On 21/02/2008 09:26, John McKerrell wrote: Yes, this sounds great. I don't tend to log explicit waypoints so this is going to be much more useful for me. Did you think about having a little arrow or some sort of marker that followed the trace as you played the audio or is there some specific reason that this would not be possible? The effect is quite mesmeric. One thing I didn't appreciate until I saw it working though is that you no longer need make a loop or anything else on your GPS. As long as you have a known point to sync to at the start, you can then just dictate White Swan pub on the left NOW, and the orange arrow will point to where you were when you said NOW. That is really quite a neat feature - perhaps you had realised that consequence - I hadn't. Funnily enough, the first time I tried audio tracing I just assumed there was something like this available, so when I came to use my audio I realised that all my post box on the left NOW, bus stop on the right... NOW was fairly useless. Maybe I'll go back and try that trace again now ;-) John ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Continuous audio in JOSM on tracks without waypoints
Alex S. wrote: Sent: 21 February 2008 7:09 PM To: talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Continuous audio in JOSM on tracks without waypoints Andy Robinson (blackadder) wrote: You might think about the format of the moving marker. Perhaps selected by a user preference. Say a stick man, bike or car :-D Why not auto select by apparent speed? ;) No good, I cycle faster than most cars in the urban sprawl ;-) Cheers Andy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Continuous audio in JOSM on tracks without waypoints
David Earl wrote: Sent: 21 February 2008 7:04 PM To: John McKerrell Cc: OSM Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Continuous audio in JOSM on tracks without waypoints On 21/02/2008 09:26, John McKerrell wrote: Yes, this sounds great. I don't tend to log explicit waypoints so this is going to be much more useful for me. Did you think about having a little arrow or some sort of marker that followed the trace as you played the audio or is there some specific reason that this would not be possible? OK, your wish is my command. From tomorrow's build, once you turn the feature on, a little orange arrow can track your position on the track with reference to the audio. (I noted the request for different icons, but I've just done it with an arrowhead at present; I've run out of time today). I wasn't being entirely serious David. I just thought it would look quite amusing to see a little stick icon running along the road! Cheers, great new feature. Andy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Continuous audio in JOSM on tracks without waypoints
On 21/02/2008 20:59, John McKerrell wrote: On 21 Feb 2008, at 19:04, David Earl wrote: On 21/02/2008 09:26, John McKerrell wrote: Yes, this sounds great. I don't tend to log explicit waypoints so this is going to be much more useful for me. Did you think about having a little arrow or some sort of marker that followed the trace as you played the audio or is there some specific reason that this would not be possible? The effect is quite mesmeric. One thing I didn't appreciate until I saw it working though is that you no longer need make a loop or anything else on your GPS. As long as you have a known point to sync to at the start, you can then just dictate White Swan pub on the left NOW, and the orange arrow will point to where you were when you said NOW. That is really quite a neat feature - perhaps you had realised that consequence - I hadn't. Funnily enough, the first time I tried audio tracing I just assumed there was something like this available, so when I came to use my audio I realised that all my post box on the left NOW, bus stop on the right... NOW was fairly useless. Maybe I'll go back and try that trace again now ;-) One thing I realised just cycling along this evening, having stepped back from the project for a while, is that when you don't have a waypoint at the start it is hard to synchronise on a marker, because it they are sampled, not related to any specific point, so to make this truly useful I need to add something to let you adjust or identify the sync point. In the meantime, you might need to add or remove a small amount of silence at the beginning of your sound track in Audacity to compensate. I'll make sure I put a proper solution in for this soon. David ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Continuous audio in JOSM on tracks without waypoints
On 22/02/2008, David Earl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Funnily enough, the first time I tried audio tracing I just assumed there was something like this available, so when I came to use my audio I realised that all my post box on the left NOW, bus stop on the right... NOW was fairly useless. Maybe I'll go back and try that trace again now ;-) a further step that would make this fantastically amazing, and hugely speed up the data-gathering process, would be to incorporate a speech-recognition engine into the process. understanding tag names (amenity = pub, shop = supermarket, etc.) should be fairly simple, as there are a limited number of words to learn. whether it would ever be able to understand more complicated things like pub names, is another question ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Continuous audio in JOSM on tracks without waypoints
On 21/02/2008 23:56, David Earl wrote: One thing I realised just cycling along this evening, having stepped back from the project for a while, is that when you don't have a waypoint at the start it is hard to synchronise on a marker, because it they are sampled, not related to any specific point, so to make this truly useful I need to add something to let you adjust or identify the sync point. In the meantime, you might need to add or remove a small amount of silence at the beginning of your sound track in Audacity to compensate. I'll make sure I put a proper solution in for this soon. I know what I'll do - I'll provide sync the other way round - instead of selecting a marker and playing the sound track until it aligns, you'd play the sound track until the trace marker reaches your landmark, then you say synchronise. You don't even need to record anything significant on the soundtrack to identify the landmark. The main thing would be user understanding of what the difference is between sync audio to marker and sync location to audio. I think what I might do is have a single sync, but let you choose in the preferences which way round you want it to behave. (Or I could do one if the audio markers were sampled and another if they came from genuine waypoints - though I think the new kind of sync is useful there as well). David ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Continuous audio in JOSM on tracks without waypoints
David This sounds like it will be super cool (sorry about the pun). I'll be trying this out on my next expedition. Etienne On Wed, Feb 20, 2008 at 6:16 PM, David Earl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: To augment continuous audio synchronized with waypoints that I mailed about earlier this week, I have now also added the facility to work with continuous audio recordings on tracks where you don't have or don't want to use explicit GPS waypoints. This will be in tomorrow's JOSM build. After loading your GPX track, right click on the GPX layer and choose the new Make Sampled Audio Layer option. This will ask for your WAV file; then it will create a new layer combining the audio track with the GPX trackpoints to produce a set of audio markers laid out along the track. These will be at least 15 seconds and 75 metres apart, or whatever values you choose for these in Advanced Preferences settings for marker.audiosampleminsecs and marker.audiosampleminmetres respectively)(*). You're then in a similar position to applying audio to explicit waypoints as per my previous changes: you can synchronise to a marker near the beginning of the track, play by reference to the visual position on the map, jump forward and back in the commentary, pause and resume and so on. The sampled markers are named according to the time offset from the beginning of the sound track (e.g. 1:37, 1:09:07). To facilitate this, I've reversed the default for whether to show text for button markers (audio, image and web), but you can turn these off as before, transiently from the right button layer menu, or permanently by setting marker.buttonlabels to false in Advanced Preferences. David (*) the defaults are chosen so that they are about the same for a cyclist travelling at 5 metres per second (about 11mph or 18km/h), so you get a useful but not overwhelming number of samples, but if you stop or slow down, you don't suddenly get a concentration of points close together. Of course if you stop and then record intermittently, you'll still find it hard to locate the bit of commentary you want - the whole idea is it is related to landmark junctions or loops you make in the road or whatever. If you're in a car you might want to set the sample time a bit shorter, say 7.5 in an urban environment, though the distance would probably be the same unless you actually want a higher or lower density, and maybe 60 to 90 seconds apart if walking at a typical 1 m/s. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
