Re: [OSM-talk] OSM for government

[joost schouppe]

Hi,

Thanks to some further input (special thanks to Mikel!) and a boring
afternoon, that wiki page is now a bit more than an outline:

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OpenStreetMap_for_Government

Robert,
Really interesting questions. I hope the page can grow to fit your needs.

My perspective is probably quite a bit different from yours, and still very
similar. Most of OSM interest in government, is where gov -does- have good
data, so there we face different problems. But when I think of the city
government in Belgium I work, we have e.g. ages old cycle path data. Don't
worry, we'll just start all over again and make a new data island. This
time for sure, we'll be able to keep it up to date.

So in a context where the government itself has no great data, development
work has a problem quite similar to mappers in developed countries.
How to build the tools that allow gov to have a feeling of control over
data quality?
Of course we should try and convince them this is a false question.
But failing that, I think it could work like this:

- do a one-off validation of OSM data (e.g. use the tasking manager to
check all the cycleways)
- export it to your own "authoritative database" and let it rest
- when you know reality change, update directly in OSM. Or don't, and
depend on the crowd.
- after some time has passed, make a new extract of the OSM data, and
compare old to new situation. This should be relatively easy to achieve, as
the data model would be identical. Highlight changes, and do a manual
review of special cases. If fixes necessary, do so in OSM. When ready, make
a new export.

The disadvantage is that as a government agency, you can only guarantee OSM
quality at the validation times. The advantage is that you always have an
"authentic truth" dataset at the ready, with a relatively low effort.

2017-02-06 13:45 GMT+01:00 Robert Banick :

> Really interesting conversation and tips here. My team
>  at the GFDRR  has been
> tiptoeing in this direction for a while. To date we’ve mostly been involved
> in one-off data creation projects that demonstrate OSM’s value the
> governments we work with and get them to produce non-sensitive data in the
> open they would otherwise make privately (then probably misplace within a
> few years, leaving only final report PDFs in their wake). Projects like
> this
> 
> and this .
>
> We’re not blind to the fact that this is imperfect and less than
> sustainable. So we’re looking at the examples you all list for good (and
> bad) ways to institutionalize this work and make it standard practice
> instead of one-time.
>
> We’re also interested in funding the creation of better software tools to
> make it easier for governments to do these tasks, particularly for
> government IT staff that may not be on the cutting edge of technology
> practices even within their own country, let alone internationally. More
> GUI based ways to visualize changes and perform quality control, or see
> multiple departments’ inputs on a single set of nodes in OSM.
>
> Are there any specialized tools you all have seen used for these purposes?
> Can we capture some of the scripts / etc. published by model cities/govs on
> the wiki page? Thanks for setting that up joost!
>
> Robert
>

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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM for government

[Stefan Keller]

Hi Joost,

Interesting proposal.
I'd like to point to Vorarlberg (Austria), who mandated a company in
Graz to maintain cycle routes of Vorarlberg in OSM.
I added this in the wiki page.

:Stefan


2017-02-06 13:45 GMT+01:00 Robert Banick :
> Really interesting conversation and tips here. My team at the GFDRR has been
> tiptoeing in this direction for a while. To date we’ve mostly been involved
> in one-off data creation projects that demonstrate OSM’s value the
> governments we work with and get them to produce non-sensitive data in the
> open they would otherwise make privately (then probably misplace within a
> few years, leaving only final report PDFs in their wake). Projects like this
> and this.
>
> We’re not blind to the fact that this is imperfect and less than
> sustainable. So we’re looking at the examples you all list for good (and
> bad) ways to institutionalize this work and make it standard practice
> instead of one-time.
>
> We’re also interested in funding the creation of better software tools to
> make it easier for governments to do these tasks, particularly for
> government IT staff that may not be on the cutting edge of technology
> practices even within their own country, let alone internationally. More GUI
> based ways to visualize changes and perform quality control, or see multiple
> departments’ inputs on a single set of nodes in OSM.
>
> Are there any specialized tools you all have seen used for these purposes?
> Can we capture some of the scripts / etc. published by model cities/govs on
> the wiki page? Thanks for setting that up joost!
>
> Robert
>
> On Mon, Feb 6, 2017 at 1:51 PM joost schouppe 
> wrote:
>>
>> As suggested by Mikel, I created a wiki catalog page about the subject:
>>
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OpenStreetMapforGovernment
>>
>> It's just an outline, I'll try to add some stuff from this conversation
>> over the following days; but you're welcome to do that first yourself :)
>>
>> I'm not quite sure how HOT related mapping fits in that page. I would
>> guess there's a HOT catalog somewhere out there, where some cases will
>> probably involve quite some government support. I'd rather link to that than
>> duplicate the list.
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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM for government

[Robert Banick]

Really interesting conversation and tips here. My team 
at the GFDRR  has been tiptoeing in this direction
for a while. To date we’ve mostly been involved in one-off data creation
projects that demonstrate OSM’s value the governments we work with and get
them to produce non-sensitive data in the open they would otherwise make
privately (then probably misplace within a few years, leaving only final
report PDFs in their wake). Projects like this

and this .

We’re not blind to the fact that this is imperfect and less than
sustainable. So we’re looking at the examples you all list for good (and
bad) ways to institutionalize this work and make it standard practice
instead of one-time.

We’re also interested in funding the creation of better software tools to
make it easier for governments to do these tasks, particularly for
government IT staff that may not be on the cutting edge of technology
practices even within their own country, let alone internationally. More
GUI based ways to visualize changes and perform quality control, or see
multiple departments’ inputs on a single set of nodes in OSM.

Are there any specialized tools you all have seen used for these purposes?
Can we capture some of the scripts / etc. published by model cities/govs on
the wiki page? Thanks for setting that up joost!

Robert

On Mon, Feb 6, 2017 at 1:51 PM joost schouppe 
wrote:

As suggested by Mikel, I created a wiki catalog page about the subject:

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OpenStreetMapforGovernment

It's just an outline, I'll try to add some stuff from this conversation
over the following days; but you're welcome to do that first yourself :)

I'm not quite sure how HOT related mapping fits in that page. I would guess
there's a HOT catalog somewhere out there, where some cases will probably
involve quite some government support. I'd rather link to that than
duplicate the list.
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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM for government

[joost schouppe]

As suggested by Mikel, I created a wiki catalog page about the subject:

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OpenStreetMapforGovernment

It's just an outline, I'll try to add some stuff from this conversation
over the following days; but you're welcome to do that first yourself :)

I'm not quite sure how HOT related mapping fits in that page. I would guess
there's a HOT catalog somewhere out there, where some cases will probably
involve quite some government support. I'd rather link to that than
duplicate the list.
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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM for government

[Oleksiy Muzalyev]

In this video in English about the Russian Trans-Siberian Railway:
https://youtu.be/jRyJiL41Umg?t=3m34s
at 3 minutes 34 seconds a Navigation and Security application of a 
Passenger Train is shown which seems to be based on the OSM. The film 
was produced in 2014, so the town of Khabarovsk (rus. Хабаровск) is 
mapped by now much better.


I am not absolutely sure that it is OpenStreetMap, but the design and 
colors of the map in this application look like the OSM couple of years 
ago. Russian Railway is one of the three largest transport companies in 
the world https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Railways . It is 
government owned.


Best regards,
Oleksiy

On 03.02.17 14:44, joost schouppe wrote:

Hi,

With the Belgian community, we're making some careful progress into 
getting government to really integrate OSM/VGI into their data 
management efforts. So not talking about background maps here, real 
data contribution or community engagement.


There are some very specific issues and opportunities there. I believe 
the Canadian Census is going that way. Are there any other projects in 
this direction? Is there anything like a project catalogue around?


--
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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM for government (joost schouppe)

[Peter Mooney]

Hi Joost, everyone,

You might have seen this already (http://discovery.ucl.ac.uk/1433169/)  -
it's a little old now but it is a 2014 report I was involved in on
Crowdsourcing Geographic Information Use in Government and there are lots
of OSM related examples (some of which have been mentioned).

Peter



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>1. Re: OSM for government (joost schouppe) (john whelan)
>2. weeklyOSM #341 24/01/2017-03/02/2017 (weeklyteam)
>3.  OpenStreetCam plugin (James)
>4. Re: OSM for government (Tomas Straupis)
>5. Re: OSM for government (Michael Andersen)
>
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> --
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> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2017 13:24:22 -0500
> From: john whelan <jwhelan0...@gmail.com>
> To: Volker Schmidt <vosc...@gmail.com>
> Cc: OpenStreetMap talk mailing list <talk@openstreetmap.org>
> Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] OSM for government (joost schouppe)
> Message-ID:
> 

Re: [OSM-talk] OSM for government

[Michael Andersen]

On fredag den 3. februar 2017 14.44.47 CET joost schouppe wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> With the Belgian community, we're making some careful progress into getting
> government to really integrate OSM/VGI into their data management efforts.
> So not talking about background maps here, real data contribution or
> community engagement.
> 
> There are some very specific issues and opportunities there. I believe the
> Canadian Census is going that way. Are there any other projects in this
> direction? Is there anything like a project catalogue around?

An employee of the Viborg municipality (http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/
1926898) working on a public "traffic security project" recently added maxspeed 
tags to all roads of his municipality based on data owned by the municipality. 
I spent some time cleaning up after his initial attempts as well guiding him 
the best I could. His plan is to proceed to add maxspeed data to all public 
roads in Denmark and just last night he posted on the danish OSM mailing list 
asking whether there's any way to automatically add all this data (of course 
receiving a bunch of responses to the contrary).

Nordfyn municipality (http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/2178137) sees 
potential in using OSM for a public project classifying cycleways and footways 
etc based on an internal classification system planned to be used all over 
Denmark. I had to practically roll back their initial attempt (how come they 
are getting employees with practically no computer experience save OSM ditto 
to do stuff like this?) , but I am currently in contact with them and will be 
guiding them as they proceed (they started adding some data again today).

At least 2 public danish bus companies are using OSM for routing (I have been 
in contact with both of them) and both have been adding data to OSM in order 
to aid their efforts.

A long time member of the danish community http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/
Hammershoej is maintaining cycling routes in Denmark on behalf of the national 
danish road administration (based on data he's getting from them).

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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM for government

[Tomas Straupis]

Hello

2017-02-03 15:44 GMT+02:00 joost schouppe wrote:
> With the Belgian community, we're making some careful progress into getting
> government to really integrate OSM/VGI into their data management efforts.
> So not talking about background maps here, real data contribution or
> community engagement.

 Here's a general idea what we're doing in Lithuania.

  Government has datasets d1, d2... dn. OSM has one big dataset O
which could be split into datasets o1, o2... om. We take datasets dx
and oy which could be mapped (have similar data, like placenames,
roads, lakes, rivers, etc.)

  Automated importing to either direction is impossible (or not wanted
by both sides). Government datasets need strict accountability
(sources, documents) and responsibility. OSM has different data and
simply overwriting it with government data would be bad in a lot of
ways.

  So the way integration between OSM and government (and actually any
other datasets) is done is by synchronisation - checking for
differences and taking action (mostly manual) on them on both
datasets. By doing a comparison both government and OSM datasets are
improved. The point here is that government datasets usually use
official (document) source to update data. OSM uses local knowledge to
update data. None of these methods are perfect, so
synchronisation/comparison helps to get most/best of both.
  (as a separate note: here comes OSM strength that everything is in
one layer - it is much harder to have a road going through a lake or
building or having a street A with address B along it. Government
datasets are usually separate and controlled by different
institutions, so doing such topology checks is much more difficult
there)

  For this to work government must open datasets and appoint a working
contact point where information about problems in government dataset
could be sent and there this information is ACTUALLY used and feedback
given.

-- 
Tomas

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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM for government (joost schouppe)

[john whelan]

We have something similar in Ottawa, three bits of Government, Gatineau,
Ottawa and a federal body called the NCC.  Each have their own maps that
overlap of their paths for cyclists.  OSM is more complete than anything
but all three do have Open Data with I understand designated cycle paths.
They are difficult to map as many are not signed specifically for cyclists.

Cheerio John

On 3 February 2017 at 13:13, Volker Schmidt  wrote:

> I cannot contribute cases where such a collaboration actually happened,
> but two very practical examples where it would be extremely useful.
>
> Both regard bicycle aspects of OSM.
>
> In my part of the world (Italy) the regional administration has no
> region-wide data on
> - cycling infrastructure (bicycle paths and lanes)
> - signposted touristic bicycle routes
>
> OpenStreetMap has much of this data already, it's not complete and it's
> not always up-to-date, but it is far better than what the regional
> administration has. I am trying to push this as a joint project of bicycle
> associations and OSM individuals.
>
> Volker
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM for government

[Oleksiy Muzalyev]

Hi,

The website of the Stockholm Public Transport company website: 
http://sl.se/en/ is based on the OSM.


I do not know if they contribute, but the website is really effective. 
I  used it daily recently while in Stockholm, both on a computer and a 
smartphone. The Stockholm Public Transport company is owned by the 
Stockholm County Council (1). In fact, it is the most efficient public 
transport system I ever saw, not only the website, but also electronic 
ticketing, punctuality, etc. But website is a central part. Everything 
is build around it. It even shows in real time minutes before a train or 
bus arrives, also connections, etc.


However, the most impressive is that a bus stop is shown on the map 
where it is really located. So I could find a bus stop without asking 
passersbys. I mean sometimes knowing that a bust stop is on some square 
is not enough, as there could be several ones in different places of 
this square.


(1) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_transport_in_Stockholm

Best regards,
Oleksiy


On 03.02.2017 14:44, joost schouppe wrote:

Hi,

With the Belgian community, we're making some careful progress into 
getting government to really integrate OSM/VGI into their data 
management efforts. So not talking about background maps here, real 
data contribution or community engagement.


There are some very specific issues and opportunities there. I believe 
the Canadian Census is going that way. Are there any other projects in 
this direction? Is there anything like a project catalogue around?


--
Joost Schouppe
OpenStreetMap  | 
Twitter  | LinkedIn 
 | Meetup 




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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM for government (joost schouppe)

[Volker Schmidt]

I cannot contribute cases where such a collaboration actually happened, but
two very practical examples where it would be extremely useful.

Both regard bicycle aspects of OSM.

In my part of the world (Italy) the regional administration has no
region-wide data on
- cycling infrastructure (bicycle paths and lanes)
- signposted touristic bicycle routes

OpenStreetMap has much of this data already, it's not complete and it's not
always up-to-date, but it is far better than what the regional
administration has. I am trying to push this as a joint project of bicycle
associations and OSM individuals.

Volker
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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM for government

[Mikel Maron]

Joost
Off the top of my head... The French government led by etalab have a really 
good model of working with OSM and several good projects.In the USG, USAID has 
been working with OSM and universities for data in Malaria spraying 
campaigns.Several resilience programs developed by the World Bank serving local 
governments using OSM.
Let's get a catalog started -- want to create a wiki page Joost?
-Mikel

* Mikel Maron * +14152835207 @mikel s:mikelmaron 

On Friday, February 3, 2017 10:47 AM, john whelan  
wrote:
 
 

 A couple of the city of Ottawa web sites use the osm map.  Ottawa Hydro which 
is owned by the City for example.  I think the UK has imported all the bus 
stops and there are tools to import the GTFS format transit data but that 
depends on the license of course.

Cheerio John

On 3 February 2017 at 10:33, Clifford Snow  wrote:

TRIMet in Portland, Oregon, US is the regional transit operator. They use and 
contribute to OSM. The US National Park Service has been working on a version 
of iD that can feeds users changesets into both OSM and NPS. Last I heard it 
still is waiting to be rolled out. (Now that NPS is in trouble for their 
tweets, not sure if we'll even have national parks.)
If there isn't a catalog there should be. 
Clifford
On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 5:44 AM, joost schouppe  wrote:

Hi,
With the Belgian community, we're making some careful progress into getting 
government to really integrate OSM/VGI into their data management efforts. So 
not talking about background maps here, real data contribution or community 
engagement.
There are some very specific issues and opportunities there. I believe the 
Canadian Census is going that way. Are there any other projects in this 
direction? Is there anything like a project catalogue around?

-- 
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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM for government

[john whelan]

A couple of the city of Ottawa web sites use the osm map.  Ottawa Hydro
which is owned by the City for example.  I think the UK has imported all
the bus stops and there are tools to import the GTFS format transit data
but that depends on the license of course.

Cheerio John

On 3 February 2017 at 10:33, Clifford Snow  wrote:

> TRIMet in Portland, Oregon, US is the regional transit operator. They use
> and contribute to OSM. The US National Park Service has been working on a
> version of iD that can feeds users changesets into both OSM and NPS. Last I
> heard it still is waiting to be rolled out. (Now that NPS is in trouble for
> their tweets, not sure if we'll even have national parks.)
>
> If there isn't a catalog there should be.
>
> Clifford
>
> On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 5:44 AM, joost schouppe 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> With the Belgian community, we're making some careful progress into
>> getting government to really integrate OSM/VGI into their data management
>> efforts. So not talking about background maps here, real data contribution
>> or community engagement.
>>
>> There are some very specific issues and opportunities there. I believe
>> the Canadian Census is going that way. Are there any other projects in this
>> direction? Is there anything like a project catalogue around?
>>
>> --
>> Joost Schouppe
>> OpenStreetMap  |
>> Twitter  | LinkedIn
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>> 
>>
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>
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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM for government

[Clifford Snow]

TRIMet in Portland, Oregon, US is the regional transit operator. They use
and contribute to OSM. The US National Park Service has been working on a
version of iD that can feeds users changesets into both OSM and NPS. Last I
heard it still is waiting to be rolled out. (Now that NPS is in trouble for
their tweets, not sure if we'll even have national parks.)

If there isn't a catalog there should be.

Clifford

On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 5:44 AM, joost schouppe 
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> With the Belgian community, we're making some careful progress into
> getting government to really integrate OSM/VGI into their data management
> efforts. So not talking about background maps here, real data contribution
> or community engagement.
>
> There are some very specific issues and opportunities there. I believe the
> Canadian Census is going that way. Are there any other projects in this
> direction? Is there anything like a project catalogue around?
>
> --
> Joost Schouppe
> OpenStreetMap  |
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> 
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM for government

[john whelan]

The only OSM based project I know of at Stats Canada is the building
project.  The Census is something completely different.  The sort of issues
that are coming up are questions on data quality and can some Open Data be
integrated into OSM.  Another problem is inconsistent tagging.

At the end of January there were some 204 different users who had touched a
building which has built up over the last few months.  In August 2016 we
had 50,000 building tags by the end of January nearly 150,000 so I think we
are getting new mappers into OSM and the data is being enriched.

 There is some interest in Zambia as well at the moment especially as their
Census data isn't exactly up to date and the population is growing very
quickly.

What appears to be happening is data from OSM is processed then counted
using R from R.org an open source statistical package.

Cheerio John

On 3 February 2017 at 08:44, joost schouppe 
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> With the Belgian community, we're making some careful progress into
> getting government to really integrate OSM/VGI into their data management
> efforts. So not talking about background maps here, real data contribution
> or community engagement.
>
> There are some very specific issues and opportunities there. I believe the
> Canadian Census is going that way. Are there any other projects in this
> direction? Is there anything like a project catalogue around?
>
> --
> Joost Schouppe
> OpenStreetMap  |
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