Re: [talk-au] Active Australian OSM contributors in light of CT/license changes
On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 9:29 PM, Andrew Harvey andrew.harv...@gmail.comwrote: Since the ban on all contributors who didn't sign the CTs, and ban on all new contributors from using NearMap and other CC-BY/CC-BY-SA sources, I'm no longer actively contributing to the OSM database. Instead I am now actively contributing to the fosm database. I am interested to hear what other active Australian OSM contributors will be doing now. I swapped to fosm when the lockout happened cheers Just looking through the list at http://odbl.de/australia.html we have a fair amount of people who have been locked out, and also people who ticked the CTs who have used CC-BY/CC-BY-SA sources in the past who may want to keep this data and continue using these sources in the future. So, active Australian OSM contributors, are you staying with the OSM db? If so how are you going to do edits going forward, because any CC-BY-SA derived data you add may be removed if OSM abandons CC-BY-SA at some point in the future (or may even be conflicting with your agreed CTs now...). Are you moving to the fosm db? If so, great! Less problems with trying to merge your data into fosm, and we can all get back to mapping. Do you have any concerns over the switch? Are you going to stop contributing data altogether? Or are you putting you efforts on hold at the moment. I'm interested in Australia wide, but I'm personally most interested to hear from Franc, behemoth14, rrankin, Zhent, Ebenezer, swanilli, inas, Diego, good2010, dexgps. (these are just those that come to mind from looking over recent edits in the Sydney area) ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au -- Franc ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Most insanely dissected street ?
[snip] when the Northern Distributor was built in Wollongong, it carved through a number of streets. I think Cross Street Corrimal has a number of pieces now unconnected. For numbering absurdity - the Sturt Highway wins. Numbers out of Adelaide increase to about 231000 after Paringa. We took photos at about 217000. I'm actually a fan of this approach - i.e if you know which direction the numbers are going you just go that way until you find the one you want. In Vic I didn't note a house number from the driver's seat. At Gol Gol the numbers are about 8000 and decrease until Euston, except in each town they start again at 1 and 2 for each side of the road. This is the one frustrates the daylights out of me! Just way too hard to know if you are in the right place. Although doing it in towns is not as bad as doing it along Parramata road, unless they won't to paint pink dotted lines on the road for when you change suburbs ;-) cheers No numbers Euston to Balranald, Hay and Darlington Point. Houses in Balranald and Hay are numbered ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au -- Franc ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Most insanely dissected street ?
On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 9:55 PM, Nick Hocking nick.hock...@gmail.com wrote: Ah-ha. I think there is a simple answer. Despite being a really long road/s I don't think anyone actually lives on it. There's always space between it and the houses, so I'm not sure there will ever be any 33 Horse Park Drive Ahh yes - I've come across this before when hunting for house numbers - very confusing when it's not obvious that the houses are nunbered on a different street cheers Cheers Nick PS - ACTMAPI site must be under change, even the road names have gone missing :-( On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 9:24 PM, Franc Carter franc.car...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 7:37 PM, Nick Hocking nick.hock...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Franc In Canberra we have a good example of the reverse problem - the not-yet-put-together street. (Horse Park Drive). It's been in two well seperated bits for years now and will be so for a couple more. And yes being on the wrong bit can be a big issue. Will the numbering clash when they get joined ? Cheers Nick ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au -- Franc ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au -- Franc ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Most insanely dissected street ?
On Sat, Jun 11, 2011 at 10:30 AM, Tim Challis tim.chal...@gmail.com wrote: On 10/06/11 21:45, Franc Carter wrote: On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 9:18 PM, Tim Challis tim.chal...@gmail.com wrote: Mind you, for sheer municipal perversity, there is a section of Ballina Road in Lismore that has had at least three numbering schemes applied to the same houses. ;-) This is probably in a different category to what you intended? Yep, I was thinking about things like near where I grew up where there is a 40 foot cliff between one house number and the next. But other road insanity is just as interesting Douglas Street in Clovelly does something like that near the Varna Street intersection. I used to rent at the other end of the street. Presumably result of a land-slip at some stage? Who says the Sydney sandstone basin is stable? Another 'good one' I have found is Como Parade (http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=-34.00314lon=151.06853zoom=16layers=M), if you are at the Bindea Street end at the number you are after is at the Woronora Crescent end then you are going to be a little annoyed. I can't point to an example offhand, but I have heard several times from discussions with professional surveyors of instances where the house numbers down a street run out of step with property title boundaries... the first number might cover block one and half of the neighbouring block, so that as you progress down the street every subsequent house number lies across the two adjoining blocks. This situation is apparently far more common than is normally recognised! That make sense given another story I heard - the database of house numbers and the database of land boundaries are completely separate - hmm Outside the urban areas, it is becoming common for street numbers to be based upon an approximate odometer reading (odd and even indicate which side of road.) E.g. 892 XXX Road indicates the property whose nearest point of intersection with XXX Road lies 8.92km from the end of the road. The system has several major weaknesses: my parents' farm is split both sides of a particular road, and the local council has admitted when they assigned the numbers 30 years ago they forgot to reset the odometer! My own property (a corner block) demonstrates another problem (no, I am not assigned zero.) The third problem is that different councils have adopted different conventions for the odd-even split. Mine has even numbers on the right travelling away from the datum. The (different) council responsible for my aforementioned parents' farm wants to make even numbers indicate the left-hand side. In a final piece of GPS-related insanity, the RTA has been setting up those illuminated sign boards around this district (I am aware of at least seven) which are flashing various messages appropriate to the location, but invariably the alternate blink reads Ignore GPS! Unfortunately all are located in particularly dangerous locations to wander out (or park nearby) to take a picture. I wonder it will ever occur to them that helping people (us ;-) fix the GPS data is the best way of fixing the problem, given that the 'system' is so bent that I suspect the only way you can find some things is by knowing where they are in the first place ;-( cheers -- Franc ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[talk-au] Most insanely dissected street ?
Hi - one for amusements sake One of my pet peeves is the way that some streets have (over time I hope), been chopped up in to separate segments in a way that finding a house number without a gps is maddening. I'm curious - what's the worst case of Dissected Street Syndrome(tm) that people have come across ? cheers -- Franc ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Most insanely dissected street ?
On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 9:18 PM, Tim Challis tim.chal...@gmail.com wrote: On 10/06/11 20:50, Franc Carter wrote: Hi - one for amusements sake One of my pet peeves is the way that some streets have (over time I hope), been chopped up in to separate segments in a way that finding a house number without a gps is maddening. I'm curious - what's the worst case of Dissected Street Syndrome(tm) that people have come across ? For my money, Parramatta Road in Sydney would have to rank pretty highly in terms of numbering systems restarting every time a suburb boundary is crossed (and sometimes even reversing order and counting down again - I recall there being two properties side-by-side with identical street numbers [somewhere near Stanmore?]) Good call - I'm actually planning to map the numbers on that soon because it's such a mess. Mind you, for sheer municipal perversity, there is a section of Ballina Road in Lismore that has had at least three numbering schemes applied to the same houses. ;-) This is probably in a different category to what you intended? Yep, I was thinking about things like near where I grew up where there is a 40 foot cliff between one house number and the next. But other road insanity is just as interesting Cheers, Tim. -- Franc ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Canberra Mapping - out of date
On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 12:19 PM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: On 6 May 2011 10:47, David Murn da...@incanberra.com.au wrote: This could almost be considered vandalism, what you are doing to the quality of the map data available for Canberra. Please dont touch any of my 'out-of-date' edits from the past 6 months to realign them with 10 year old aerial imagery. You mentioned previously that Bing was out of alinement by up to 100m, if this is the case it is a clear case of vandalism since he should be at the vest least realigning Bing imagery to GPS traces. Interesting - I wonder if that is the cause of some of the strangeness I see in Port Macquarie cheers ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au -- Franc ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] navit and bays/coastline around Sydney
[snip] I've been aiming to tag bays as areas rather than just a node in the centre. As a consequence my initial thought was to tag the area as natural=bay. Traditionally most renderers didn't render this as water. the OSM Mapnik style now does, but many others still don't. The problem was I couldn't tag as both natural=water to get the rendering and natural=bay to indicate the type of feature. Yes agreed, tagging the bay area seems like the right sort of thing to do. I've had the problem with mulitvalued tags before - the ';' approach seems rather hacky to me so I can understand why went for bay. I've since realised that tagging as natural=water, water=bay could be a solution to use, but as natural=bay already had widespread use with nodes, I wanted to keep consistency. As Markus_g mentioned you could try to edit Navits stylesheets so it renders natural=bay areas as water (some times as a multipolygon), although... Yep - I will look in to that but from looking in to the code it looks hard(ish) as I don't see a generic approach for dealing with ways that are concatenated to form closed way. I'm not opposed to your suggestion of keeping a kind of coastline tag, I'm just not sure the best way to implement it, please discuss it if you like. * Perhaps the coastline tag should be reserved for the ocean facing coast. If we want to tag anything say inside a bay or harbour maybe we could use a shoreline tag. Yes, this where the definitions aren't entirely clear to me. At some points we can say it's clearly coastline, at some points it's clearly riverbank, but the transition is not so clear. I suspect that the ways that make up a bay should be tagged with something, they mark a transition between water and not-water and the bay is the area inside these. The relation does this nicely. * A problem with tagging the area of a bay is that while the shoreline is mostly well defined, the other edge is fuzzy. A possible solution is to use a multi polygon relation to tag just the non-shoreline segments of the bay outline as fuzzy=*. I suppose that using a multipolygon relation you can keep jest the shoreline segments together in another relation for say a larger harbour or river Yes, there is an examples of this across Port Hacking with a coastline tag runnnig across open water. Conceptually wrong I think, but needed in practice fro rendering to have any chance. Not that it helps, but it occurs to me that the rendering model may be inverted. If the default was everywhere is water and then we have closed areas of land then things may go smoother - but tool late now ;-) Because of the way coastline rendering works I can't see a way to make things render correctly without having at least one hack (i.e the fake coastline boundary). The least hacky approach that I can see if for the water/non-water transition to be tagged coastline or riverbank (and shoreline if we can define it sensibly). At the point of transition there will need to be some tagging-for-the-rendere, but that's unavoidable. cheers -- Franc ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Tragedy of the commons...
On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 9:14 PM, Leon Kernan lker...@gmail.com wrote: If you are running linux then it's easy. Download a planet file from where ever. Extract the au data using osmosis. Use the au data as you normally would. Just out of curiosity what are you using the data in. At the moment i dump OSM data into a sqlite database with the spatialite addon. I've got a computer installed in my car and the applications i've written use the data to provide navigation and a few other features. Neat - any links/info on what you are using for navigation ? cheers Setting all that up isn't worthwhile at the moment while someone else is able to provide extracts already prepared. Also a lot of bandwidth i don't have to get that first planet file. I guess it is something to think about when i get locked out of osm however. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au -- Franc ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Tragedy of the commons...
On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 9:24 PM, Leon Kernan lker...@gmail.com wrote: Neat - any links/info on what you are using for navigation ? I've been developing my apps in Visual Basic 2010 and running on Windows 7 in the car. I'm on Linux, but it spatialite should be fine on that The routing is provided by the spatialite addon to sqlite. Basically i can do a single sql query with a start and end node and it will return a last of all ways required to get from a to b. Spatialite also includes tools to get the basic OSM file into the sql database in the appropriate geometry format. I only have to do a bit of massaging after to get things like maxspeed and route relations included. Heres a link to the spatialite website: http://www.gaia-gis.it/spatialite/ Thanks -- Franc ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] OSM-F seems to be a sinking ship... (was: Wiki + Data Sources + Licensing Categories)
[snip] It's starting to become painfully obvious that OSM-F wouldn't be able to organise a piss up in a brewery, and there seems to be little or no chance that they can actually pull off the license change over in some kind of demotactic, moral and smooth change over so I'm basically writing them off for all future edits as a complete waste of time. A couple of us are toying about with what to do next, fosm.org seems the most suitable at present since the idea is to continue on with CC-by-SA licenses, although there is still debate over which CC-by-SA license due to issues with the European Database Directive, but that doesn't have any effect on us in Australia until and unless the Australian government decides to do something similar if Telstra et al push now that copyright doesn't protect their data. What do others think, or have planned if OSM-F keeps heading into the lost cause territory? I am just starting to investigate/think-about this - I will be looking for something that stays close to the current license. Apart from the legal/ethical issues my biggest concern is compatibility with NearMap and Australian government data. cheers ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au -- Franc ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] BYO restaurants
seems sensible as the tag can be applied generally cheers On 25/01/2011 10:08 AM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: On 24 January 2011 06:06, SomeoneElse li...@mail.atownsend.org.uk wrote: Hi - quick question - what's the normal way to indicate BYO vs licenced restaurants? Not all restaurants are licensed... amenity=restaurant licensed=yes/no/byo ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Suburb - Bal
On Thu, Jan 6, 2011 at 2:48 AM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.comwrote: Sorry for the late reply, I seemed to have missed/overlooked this... On 12 October 2010 07:39, Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com wrote: Anyone know where Melway gets that info from, and if we can get it too? Or do we just manually merge all these boundaries into the suburb of the same name? Ultimately, we want suburb names, not statistical divisions, surely... +1 Most people most of the time don't tend to care to much for/about the ABS boundaries, I was doing a fair bit of work importing postcodes previously, however it might be better to trash most of the ABS data and import a new set when it comes out, obviously this would need to be done very carefully so as not to remove any useful information people may have added since. I tend to agree - and I'm the one who imported the ABS sets ;-) In the absence of better data they still provide a much better idea than guessing a radius around a point, we just need to make sure that we are clear that they are best guesstimates for the moment. I think you are right about a re-import, we have learnt a bunch of things since the first import which will hopefully make a fresh one better. I can think of ways around most of the issues with a delete/rebuild - one issue that doesn't jump out with a solution is how to minimise the amount of time that no data exists and hence we have gone backwards a bit. cheers ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au -- Franc ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Suburb - Bal
On Thu, Jan 6, 2011 at 10:47 PM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.comwrote: On 6 January 2011 21:38, Franc Carter franc.car...@gmail.com wrote: In the absence of better data they still provide a much better idea than guessing a radius around a point, we just need to make sure that we are clear that they are best guesstimates for the moment. I thought the ABS was due to release new data files soon? Oops - I mean having ABS instead of nothing - if we get a new ABS then that would better than current ABS - w emay need to work out how to leave boundaries where people have made extensive tweaks based on local knowledge I think you are right about a re-import, we have learnt a bunch of things since the first import which will hopefully make a fresh one better. I can think of ways around most of the issues with a delete/rebuild - one issue that doesn't jump out with a solution is how to minimise the amount of time that no data exists and hence we have gone backwards a bit. That's not difficult, especially since I'd suggest a dry run or two before hand, you can find all the data via XAPI and then use JOSM to send a delete and then send up new boundary data soon after. The upload took 'a while' - i.e a week or two from memory ;-( -- Franc ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Suburb - Bal
On Thu, Jan 6, 2011 at 11:23 PM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.comwrote: On 6 January 2011 22:09, Franc Carter franc.car...@gmail.com wrote: Oops - I mean having ABS instead of nothing - if we get a new ABS then that would better than current ABS - w emay need to work out how to leave boundaries where people have made extensive tweaks based on local knowledge Yes, that was one of my areas of concern as well. The upload took 'a while' - i.e a week or two from memory ;-( Do you know why it was slow specifically? I suspect it was latency to the server - There were a large number of requests made. The order in which the data got inserted was quite conservative (low risk). It inserted data form nodes up - nodes for the ways for the relations and didn't really do much grouping to keep the number of transactions low -- Franc ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] SES Station
There's one just up the road from me, but my experience is that these are brick buildings without much distinction. If you like i could take a pic cheers On Wed, Jul 28, 2010 at 11:01 PM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.comwrote: Does anyone have a suitable picture of a SES station so it can be used on the wiki? http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Map_Features#Emergency ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au -- Franc ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] SES Station
On Wed, Jul 28, 2010 at 11:07 PM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.comwrote: On 28 July 2010 23:05, Franc Carter franc.car...@gmail.com wrote: There's one just up the road from me, but my experience is that these are brick buildings without much distinction. Most of the ones I've seen are tin sheds, in any case it's just to illustrate and for some reason the image of the logo I found on the wiki doesn't show up... If you like i could take a pic That would be greatly appreciated... ok, will do cheers -- Franc ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[talk-au] Sydney-Canberra trip
Hi, I'm planning a Sydney Canberra trip this weekend and will be able to make at least one direction a full day trip and do some mapping. So, does anyone have a suggestion for an unmapped own that is on the way(ish) ? cheers -- Franc ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[talk-au] ABS data and new license
Hi, Legal stuff, hurts my brain to the point of making no progress ;-( Does anyone know if the proposed new license is compatible with the ABS license at http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/2.5/au/ thanks -- Franc ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Things that would be nice if they rendered...
On Wed, Jun 9, 2010 at 9:29 AM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.comwrote: On 9 June 2010 09:04, Franc Carter franc.car...@gmail.com wrote: One of the things I most wished for from my pre gps days was for maps to have turn restrictions marked. Is there a good way to do this without cluttering the map? Good question, my thought was little restriciton signs in the nagle between the affected streets. Not sure how much this would clutter things however cheers These have real value and should be displayed prominently on a map used for driving navigation, maybe OSM needs to start rendering more specialist maps for specific purposes, but this is a debate for a different list. -- Franc ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[talk-au] Floodways ?
Hi, What if anything have people been using to map 'floodways', i.e channels that are design to retain water in high rainfall times., e.g http://www.nearmap.com/?ll=-34.044061,150.747024z=19t=knmd=20091229 cheers -- Franc ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[talk-au] Traffic Signals
Hi, I use to tag traffic signals at the intersect of the roads, however with NearMap I can see that for complex intersections this does not work as well as I would like, three things I can see to do are:- 1. tag at the intersecttion of roads 2. tag at the location of the signals 3. either (1) or (2) depending on the complexity of the intersection. What's peoples views on this ? thanks -- Franc ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] answers to difficult questions
Yes - If they're red and just that exact distance from the road then I quess it should be a postbox. I can't work out the telephone boxes in Queanbeyan from the imagery. so I'm still surveying them. some/lots of the telephone box's in Sydney are very distinctive ;-) Nick -- Franc ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Tram stops and routes for Melbourne
On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 10:06 PM, Andy Botting a...@andybotting.com wrote: Hi there freedom lovers, I've dabbled with a few little tram projects over the last couple of years, so I'm interested in the state of the tram information for Melbourne. I've noticed that the stops in OSM are a little inconsistent and incomplete, so I'd like to get them fixed. Anyone on this list from Melbourne and catching trams, have probably heard of 'Tram Tracker'. It's a web-services based system for predicting the arrival of a tram at a particular stop. I've managed write some little python scripts to compile a little database of all the stops, with info like lat, lng, stop number, routes stopping at each stop, and a few other little bits. So, my questions here are: 1. What sort of agreement do I need from Yarra Trams before this information can be uploaded into OSM? What have others done in the past? What can you do if they agree one day, then change their mind? Generally you should get some form, either by a published copyright that is compatible with the OSM license, or a specific statement allowing OSM to import the data under it's license, if the general copyright is not compatible. 2. Is there a particular format/method for uploading this information? I guess I would need to manually remove the existing stops first before pushing the new data in. For the couple imports I have done I have user perl (I would assume python equivalent exist) modules to convert from shp/gpx/whatever to the '.osm' xml format and then pushed it in with josm or an osm batch upload script. The long bits tend to be getting copyright agreement (which may be a 'not happening' scenario) and then working out what attributes to put on the data - which i have done iteratively on the list. (ps - Hi Andy - 'Intersect Franc') cheers cheers, Andy ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au -- Franc ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Mapping interchanges levels or turn restrictions
On Tue, Jan 12, 2010 at 3:57 PM, cam_...@fastmail.fm wrote: On Mon, 2010-01-11 at 21:44 +1100, Roy Rankin wrote: With the resolution and newness of Nearmap images Freeway/Motorway interchanges are being mapped in detail rather than schematically. This brings up the issue on how to best do this. ... (http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=-33.82907lon=151.21494zoom=17layers=0B00FTF ) The mapper did not realise that ways with turn restrictions must break at the via node. Unfortunately the current tested JOSM does not handle turn restriction relations properly when a way is split and much effort is required to fix up the relations after a way split. As each way had quite a few turn restrictions I realized that after splitting the ways it would require some time to sort out the relations. I thus used method 2 above and deleted all the relations. Regards, Roy Rankin Good point there Roy, This intersection was my doing, I wasn't 100% sure how to do turn restriction relations that well, and OSM's documentation for straight_on isn't clear. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relation:restriction That is a particularly messy intersection to deal with: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=-33.829754lon=151.214575zoom=18layers=B000FTF Personally I'd prefer to use turn restriction relations rather than just using different layer tags for these complex intersections, as it seems to be more the proper way of doing it. After having a look at your handywork fixing up that intersection Roy, it does indeed make reading the intersection much easier in JOSM. But indeed as you say, just using layers, one way roads, and some non-connecting ways is in itself a rather elegant way of doing things. Would anyone else like to comment? I'm very much in favour of the turn restrictions over the layering. It is physically possible to make all these weird turns, it's just not legal to do so. Therefore I would prefer to map it this. cheers Regards, Rhubarb. -- cam_...@fastmail.fm -- http://www.fastmail.fm - Access your email from home and the web ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au -- Franc ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[talk-au] greenery between roads etc
Hi, What are people doing for the green areas that are between 'other things', e.g in the middle of large roundabouts, between didvided roads with significant space. I can see this as a two part thing - mapping the geography and mapping it's socially defined status. In the geography category the one I'm not clear on is those areas that are grassed with a proportion of trees - and no idea on the second issue cheers -- Franc ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] roundabouts and footways/cycleways
On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 2:48 PM, Liz ed...@billiau.net wrote: On Wed, 30 Dec 2009, Franc Carter wrote: Hi, Just an FYI that I spotted last night - current versions of navit appear to count exits that aren't navigable by the current vehicle (e.g footways when traveling by car) when calculating the exit count. No rush from my perspective - I'm much more interested in the turn restrictions, I am currently building a test VM so that I can narrow down the issue and file a bug report cheers cheers do you want me to follow that up on #navit? the channel has not been very active this week - i think that the devs are having a holiday ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au -- Franc ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] roundabouts and footways/cycleways
On Fri, Jan 1, 2010 at 6:31 PM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: 2010/1/1 Franc Carter franc.car...@gmail.com: No rush from my perspective - I'm much more interested in the turn restrictions, I am currently building a test VM so that I can narrow down the issue and file a bug report Someone is making a VM image with everything setup you just need to tell it to download/process an OSM data file, or the complete planet dump. Nice, do you happen to have a link ? cheers -- Franc ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Mapping road closures...
I was thinking about this last night as well, as we were trying to navigate the nightmare of Sydney road closures. I suspect the roads that are closed each year (and even more likely each event) will be different. So, I cam to the conclusion that the best way of handling this was as some sort of data patch with a start/end time that gets applied in the routing software. From this I see two challenges - a format to represent the data, and an editor that makes it easy to create On Fri, Jan 1, 2010 at 2:14 PM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: I was thinking last night how it might be useful to mark in common roads that are closed, and the events, eg roads commonly closed off before new years eve etc... Anyone have any thoughts on the best way to do this? ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au -- Franc ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[talk-au] roundabouts and footways/cycleways
Hi, Just an FYI that I spotted last night - current versions of navit appear to count exits that aren't navigable by the current vehicle (e.g footways when traveling by car) when calculating the exit count. cheers -- Franc ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Wrong way round the roundabout
On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 3:32 PM, Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Dec 28, 2009 at 12:22 AM, Ross Scanlon i...@4x4falcon.com wrote: On Sun, 27 Dec 2009 21:50:58 +1100 Liz ed...@billiau.net wrote: On Sun, 27 Dec 2009, Ross Scanlon wrote: But it's just one more reason to use josm. In JOSM you can use copy and paste so I can draw one roundabout with 8 or 12 nodes then copy and paste that roundabout across where I'm working joining up nodes and ways then erasing the central crossroads I believe (correctly ?) that in general roundabouts don't have names in Australia cheers Likewise. It would still be nice to have a tool to do it automatically or some way to scale the circle size. Fwiw, here's how I convert a crossroads into a roundabout in potlatch: 1) Break one of the roads where it joins the roundabout. 2) Start a new way at the break, click on the entry points of the other three roads, then back to the first road, forming a sort of diamond. 3) Press t to convert the diamond into a circle. 4) Press r to repeat the description of the first road onto the roundabout way, and add junction=roundabout. 5) In turn, visit each of the roads, splitting them at the roundabout point. 6) Delete all the interior roads. It's a bit clicky but it doesn't take tooo long. Steve ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au -- Franc ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Wrong way round the roundabout
Yep, it was reversed - I fixed it with josm cheers On Sun, Dec 27, 2009 at 3:41 PM, Richard Colless fire...@ar.com.au wrote: I was trying out the latest routable OSM maps, and came across a couple of odd items. One was a roundabout where the Etrex told me to go round it in the wrong direction - anti-clockwise. It's the only one that gave me the wrong direction. I assume that there is something wrong in the way the roundabout has been mapped, but Potlatch doesn't show directions for roundabouts. The roundabout appears here: http://www.osm.org/?lat=-34.03208lon=150.72974zoom=20 Any suggestions on how to fix it? I also was sent around two blocks instead of making a simple left turn to get into a service station, but that was because the BP Connect St Marys had been placed in the middle of a median strip. (I'll fix it this afternoon). More rubbish from the bulk upload? Richard ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au -- Franc ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[talk-au] railway lines and nearmap
Hi, Somethng that struck me recently is that in areas with NearMap coverage there is potential to do a much better job of mapping railway lines - i.e lines, sidings etc could be added. What's people opinions on doing so ? cheers -- Franc ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Suburb boundaries
One possible approach to this that I believe will solve the more general case of this is the ability to move selected items to a new layer, which you can then hide cheers On Wed, Dec 23, 2009 at 5:28 PM, Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Dec 22, 2009 at 9:31 PM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: After that it might be wise to figure out some strategy to monitor changes to admin boundaries to limit the effect of mistakes in future. I suggest asking the authors of JOSM/Potlatch/... to put in an option to hide boundaries. Most of the time they're just in the way, and there's no good reason to be editing them, most of the time. (Unlike roads or whatever, where you can improve them by matching against the imagery). Steve ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au -- Franc ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] More NearMap Sydney imagery...
My brother patched Merkatoor to work with NearMap, info below My ticket with the patch is here: http://trac.openstreetmap.org/ticket/2473 The TMS settings I used (with the patch applied) were :- Server Address: www.nearmap.com Path: /maps/nml=Vertx=%2y=%3z=%1 Tile size: 256 cheers On Sat, Nov 28, 2009 at 8:20 AM, Leon Kernan lker...@gmail.com wrote: Could you please post the settings you used to get Merkaartor showing nearmap tiles? I've been trying for a few days and none of the tms server settings i tried have worked. On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 11:30 PM, Evan Sebire e...@sebire.org wrote: Haven't checked in the last 24 hours, but yesterday I cleared the 700Mb cache that Merkaartor had built up of Eastern suburbs around Melbourne, but still were getting a mix of tiles(old/new) around the zoom 19 level. When I checked with a web browser it still seems to be a mix, not sure if it could be ISP caching? Guess it best to wait a few days, Evan ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au -- Franc ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Interesting opportunity
NearMap seems to have pretty extensive coverage of WA. I was browsing and found another spec (Tammin) which I am currently filling in cheers On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 3:52 PM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: For some reason NearMap has imagery in Carnavon, WA which is a spec on the map more or less. I think this would be a very interesting opportunity for OSM in Australia to show case how extensively a place can be mapped and then use this to encourage other towns and regions to want to be mapped next. Because of the size it really shouldn't take a few people more than a few days to completely map Carnavon to the nth degree. http://osm.org/go/s1Dmo0G ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au -- Franc ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] navit files
Some experimenting this morning indicates this is fixed in the version I run (svn 2453) cheers On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 6:20 PM, Liz ed...@billiau.net wrote: navit files built form osm data don't show a road if there is a reuse of the admin boundary for the road and so navigation around adelaide is going to be really interesting as a lot of main roads have just disappeared please guys don't reuse admin boundaries ( like ABS ) to replace perfectly good data that was already in the database. Just like i used to reuse the post office node for the place name and then the rendering rules changed for mapnik and none of those named places showed up on the map. :( ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au -- Franc ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] navit files
Has anyone got a permalink to an area with this issue, so that I've got something to test with thanks On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 6:20 PM, Liz ed...@billiau.net wrote: navit files built form osm data don't show a road if there is a reuse of the admin boundary for the road and so navigation around adelaide is going to be really interesting as a lot of main roads have just disappeared please guys don't reuse admin boundaries ( like ABS ) to replace perfectly good data that was already in the database. Just like i used to reuse the post office node for the place name and then the rendering rules changed for mapnik and none of those named places showed up on the map. :( ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au -- Franc ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] navit files
I've been looking over the navit code and have made some minor tweaks to suite me. My first guess is that the issue might be able to be worked around by changing the order that osm2navit looks at properties - e.g making ti look at decide these are roads instead of boundaries. Of course this will mean boundaries will disappear in those places. Solving it properly will probably be trickier. I'll have a look at it on the weekend. cheers On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 7:25 PM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.comwrote: 2009/10/13 Elizabeth Dodd ed...@billiau.net: On Tue, 13 Oct 2009, John Smith wrote: This is really a bug in their software, specifically the osm2navit binary, it would be better to file a bug and get them to fix the issue rather than trying to work around their bugs. Have you filed a bug report for this at all? I've sat on irc for nearly a week waiting for some action to discuss it their irc channel first as i also wanted to talk about the strange computed routes i was getting Pretty sure I had the same issue when I tried to report their routing engine was screwy too. Alternatively there is plan B, there is a number of people on this list that can code, and even more on the dev list, I'm sure between us we can cook up a suitable patch. Is anyone familiar with the osm2navit code at all? ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au -- Franc ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[talk-au] not quite 4wd ?
Hi, I'm wondering what people are doing for roads that don't need 4wd, but are worse than the standard gravel road - I went on one today and had to to be careful about where I drove cheers -- Franc ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] not quite 4wd ?
Thanks John/Liz, I'll use track, and add 4wd_only=recommended cheers On Sun, Oct 4, 2009 at 8:26 PM, Liz ed...@billiau.net wrote: On Sun, 4 Oct 2009, Franc Carter wrote: Hi, I'm wondering what people are doing for roads that don't need 4wd, but are worse than the standard gravel road - I went on one today and had to to be careful about where I drove I put track. That means I drove in second gear and wished I had a mountain bike instead. I did some today too. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au -- Franc ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Navit
Interesting, It puts me on motorways all the time (sometimes it would be nice to have more choice). Have you checked the oneways etc. Have you got a permalink to a problematic road cheers On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 7:26 PM, ed...@billiau.net wrote: this might just be a silly / basic question how does one tell Navit to allow one to drive on the motorway? I double checked, its set to car, not to horse cycle or pedestrian, and it won't send me along a motorway or is this a problem with au data?? Liz who luckily knew the way because it would have been a very long journey along the backroads ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au -- Franc ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] bus_stop further details
I agree, sounds sensible cheers On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 8:57 AM, Roy Wallace waldo000...@gmail.com wrote: Gday, For tagging highway=bus_stop 's, in addition to the existing shelter=yes/no, I'm planning to also use bench=yes/no and waste_basket=yes/no, as these features are often installed as part of the bus stop itself, in Brisbane. Tagging separate nodes with amenity=* is not ideal, as 1) i couldn't really be bothered and, more importantly, 2) they are physically part of the bus stop (e.g. bench built into the bus_stop shelter; waste_basket bolted to the bus_stop sign) and therefore additional nodes are not even semantically more correct. Any comments/support/reprimands? Cheers, Roy ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au -- Franc ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] post code boundaries
I was just curious - it means that any sort of automated matching is really hard ;-( cheers On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 10:30 PM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.comwrote: Ok, finally found one of the boundaries I moved. http://osm.org/go/u...@rpric6- J.W. Crane Place wasn't a boundary, but is a postcode bounary. I can keep digging through all my edits if you want, but I made a lot of edits. -- Franc ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] post code boundaries
I had made the assumption based on a small(ish) sample of postcodes in major cities that for the ABS data set, that the boundaries between adjacent postcodes were coincident with boundaries between suburns (sorry for the mouthful). I noted several suburbs that consisted of disjoint areas, so I would assume that postcodes could be the same (I'd even expect this to be more common). Have you found cases where the postcode boundaries don't lie on top of the suburb boundaries ? (which would make the problem even uglier) cheers On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 9:50 PM, Liz ed...@billiau.net wrote: is it thought that we can draw boundaries around unique post code areas? we could be wrong 2652 (i've been cheating off the database) extends merriwagga goolgowi tabbita boorga and then reappears in another area grong grong matong (skips a few towns) marrar mangoplah old junee then south of the Sturt tarcutta uranquinty boree creek and just east of wagga gumly gumly and apparently near tumbarumba rosewood ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au -- Franc ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] post code boundaries
Yeah - I think I would come to the same conclusion ;-) cheers On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 10:35 PM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.comwrote: 2009/9/2 Franc Carter franc.car...@gmail.com: I was just curious - it means that any sort of automated matching is really hard ;-( There may be some way to do it automatically, but I figured the time spent doing all that would be better spent doing QC on the boundaries. -- Franc ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[talk-au] Mapping on a phone
Hi, My phone is on it's last legs and I'll need a new one soon. Does anybody have a phone that does a good job for mapping. It would be nice to add POIs as I notice them. I don't really need something for the full mapping experience as I have a full setup in the car for that cheers -- Franc ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Webpage layout
I was out mapping near Appin on Sunday and Google and the map in my consumer gps had large numbers of non existent roads - and getting to Tarago by TomTom was a disaster On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 11:20 AM, John Smith delta_foxt...@yahoo.comwrote: --- On Tue, 11/8/09, BlueMM bluemm1975-...@yahoo.com wrote: I've found Google Maps directions in Australia to be very good in the past, it seems to pick the best route the majority of the time. At times I've been routed along no through roads, other times google encourages me to enter private property, it also routed me along a track through a national park. Those are just the more notable examples. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au -- Franc ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Marking non-existent roads...
I heard an interesting story about the planning of early Sydney roads (I hope it wasn't on this list). The claim was that the roads were planned by someone sitting in London and drawing a straight line between two points . . . . cheers On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 1:11 PM, b.schulz...@scu.edu.au wrote: The UBD printed maps have a marking called untrafficable road (or something to that effect). Basically it's a designation for roads which are gazetted but don't exist. eg: Stanley Road, Epping, NSW: OSM: http://osm.org/go/u...@fn8li- Whereis: http://www.whereis.com/nsw/epping/stanley-rd?id=93E9799C00893A There's a creek which runs through there, along with a ~10m high cliff face on the Northern side. I used to live in Knox Ave and spent much of my childhood exploring the bush around there. Brent - Original Message - From: John Smith delta_foxt...@yahoo.com Date: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 12:10 pm Subject: Re: [talk-au] Marking non-existent roads... To: Ben Kelley ben.kel...@gmail.com Cc: talk-au@openstreetmap.org --- On Tue, 11/8/09, Ben Kelley ben.kel...@gmail.com wrote: Maybe something on a wiki page, but how do you know to look there? There is a lot of roads marked on g'maps and others that just don't exist, you'd get lost in the noise. doesn't actually exist. This system is not much use to someone else trying to survey the same area though. Yup, exactly, I more or less know what is there when I was surveying it with a GPS, but that doesn't help the next person, for roads that partially exist I put a barrier in, but that doesn't help for complete roads that don't exist. Another case would be for streets that no longer exist, but once existed, and where there are GPS traces in OSM for the street that used to exist. (There are a couple in Tamworth like this.) I don't have a good solution for these. Something that came to mind reading your reply was railway=abandoned, it doesn't render but it's still marked, there's no way we'd get agreement upon this from the main list they're still going in circles over trees and paths. Something like highway=abandoned or highway=phantom, I'm not advocating to copy from other maps, but if you have mapped out streets near by it should be possible to approximate rough location in OSM database. Thoughts? ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au -- Franc ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[talk-au] multiple gpses(sp?)
Due to a recent carputer project, I know map with two gpses. Looking at the traces in josm they are slightly offset from each other (more than the couple of centimeters that separates there antennas). My inclination is to upload both sets of tracks and use the average of the two as the position as if they were from just another set of unknown traces. One is from a Tomtom(Sirf-III) and the other is a Garmin GPS16 reasonable ? cheers -- Franc ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] street sign location
Yep, that's what I assumed - it failed ;-( On Sun, Aug 2, 2009 at 2:41 PM, Liz ed...@billiau.net wrote: On Sun, 2 Aug 2009, Franc Carter wrote: Hi, As an FYI, in case anyone gets caught out like I did ;-( I was mapping out near Macquarie Feilds today and came across quite a few streets without street names, but then noticed that the street names were on signs that were bolted to the curb, so I had to go back and redo the survey. cheers must be an attempt at being vandal proof Macquarie Fields is not the most expensive suburb ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au -- Franc ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] navit
Thanks, weekly is very useful anyway. I've just returned from a mapping trip, that used your navit map on my car computer - it was very useful for finding missed streets cheers On Sun, Aug 2, 2009 at 2:51 PM, John Smith delta_foxt...@yahoo.com wrote: --- On Tue, 28/7/09, Franc Carter franc.car...@gmail.com wrote: Excellent thanks - I'll be interested in the Aussie file It's too much of a hassle to do daily files, but I'm setting up scripts to run after lunchtime on Sundays at present, the Aussie file is up, and the NZ one is still being produced. http://maps.bigtincan.com/data/Australia-20090802.navit.bin and when it's completed http://maps.bigtincan.com/data/NZ-20090802.navit.bin ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au -- Franc ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] ABS post code areas
Thanks, I'll find out how big they are cheers On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 7:32 PM, John Smith delta_foxt...@yahoo.com wrote: --- On Wed, 29/7/09, Franc Carter franc.car...@gmail.com wrote: I more than happy to put the extract somewhere - I just need to find a place. I'll re-extract them all, compress them and see how big they are I have ample space on the virtual system I setup for the map stuff I'm screwing about with so happy to host them for you, or I think you can get OSM to host things like this too. -- Franc ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[talk-au] ABS postcode boundaries
Hi all, I've created a set of .osm files from the ABS postcode boundary data. Each .osm file is a way that encloses the postcode, so that you could use it to find the boundaries of that postcode. John has kindley provided hosting for the files at:- http://maps.bigtincan.com/data/postcodes/ cheers -- Franc ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Cooroy stuff-up
dry weather road only ;-) cheers On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 9:52 AM, Jeff Price jeff.pr...@rocketmail.comwrote: Just in case anyone noticed the Cooroy district boundary was a mess and Gumbiol Rd now goes straight down the middle of Lake Macdonald, that was me. It was my first go at joining overlapping ways and seems like I made a mess of it. Am going in now to undo the tagging. Am also patiently waiting for the next render cycle to see how the Noosa Trail tagging I put in shows up (some of route 2 and route 4 using the lcn and lcn_ref tags). http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=-26.38858lon=152.94074zoom=15layers=B000FTF Jeff ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au -- Franc ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Potential bikeways data import from Logan City Council
The two most important things I found for doing an import are:- * Clarifying the license - this bit tends to hur my head * The format of the provided data, if it's in some 'well known' format then there are often tools (perl/python/C etc modules) to make the job easier. cheers On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 2:30 PM, Roy Wallace waldo000...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all, I'm after some advice on a potential data source. I've got a contact in Logan City Council (LCC) who seems open to the idea of making data available for import into OpenStreetMap. At the moment, the data in question regards bikeways, in the form of standard MapInfo databases based on Council mapping coordinates. I have read the Import/Guidelines on the wiki, but further to them I was wondering if someone with experience in data import would like to get on board and help me in further negotiations, e.g. clarify exactly what we would require from LCC (data formats, etc.) in order to make the process go as smoothly as possible? Oh, and if all goes well, bikeways would be, of course, just the first step... Cheers, Roy ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au -- Franc ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Someone needs some help.
I've cleaned this up with the exception of a couple of abbreviations that I don't know how to map back in to their full names (e.g QYS). While I'm there, I'm tempted to replace the current PGS coastline with the borders from ABS - a good idea ?? cheers On Sat, Jun 20, 2009 at 7:37 PM, Ross Scanlon i...@4x4falcon.com wrote: Hi All, Just been using keepright to go over all the stuff I've uploaded and came across this: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=-34.9987lon=117.8835zoom=13layers=B000FTF Now someone has done a admirable job of adding the ways but has not read the wiki about naming. Most of the names are in all upper case and the type of street is abbreviated in just about all cases. Does anyone know of an easy way to change the names to mixed case and or change the ST to Street etc. Mind you if your bored and have run out of your own uploads etc here's something to do. -- Cheers Ross ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au -- Franc ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Someone needs some help.
Thanks On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 7:04 AM, Liz ed...@billiau.net wrote: On Thu, 25 Jun 2009, Franc Carter wrote: couple of abbreviations that I don't know how to map back in to their full names (e.g QYS). Sorry, got carried away with the send button qys as an abbreviation as a word on the end of street name in a coastal town? Quays a google search found Amity Quays ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au -- Franc ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Mass realignment of roads? (was Mapping things by importance)
Yes, back in my early osm days I yahoo'd Saint Clair in Western Sydney, only to fin much later when I went out with a gps that the alignment was really bad ;-( On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 9:43 PM, Liz ed...@billiau.net wrote: On Fri, 12 Jun 2009, Delta Foxtrot wrote: I've come to the realisation that every road (and everything that was placed in reference to the roads) in the suburb where I live is out by about 8-10m. Much of Brisbane's road system seems to have been traced off the Yahoo imagery, apparently without aligning it to fixed points before hand. 8-10m isn't that much of an error to be honest. There really isn't any such thing as perfect data if you are using consumer grade equipment of any sort, things will improve over the next 10 to 20 years with other constellations of GPS like sats starting to broadcast, but until then 10m is as good as it gets for the most part for most things unless you spend a lot of time getting very very accurate positioning. There are definitely suburbs in SW Sydney where we have seen the same - the photos have not been aligned with any known points. There are tricks in JOSM for moving these areas en masse - can't confirm for any other editor. I think that often the amount was greater than 10 metres. But we aren't making a perfect plan of the area - we are making a map, and to me it is an aid to navigation, so the exact placement is not as important as the relative positions of the objects. But we can improve the accuracy over time as DF notes. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au -- Franc ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] NSW/QLD Border
Hmm, interesting. Does anyone have gps traces for this area that could be used to try to work out which is better ? cheers On Mon, May 25, 2009 at 1:20 PM, Delta Foxtrot delta_foxt...@yahoo.comwrote: The MacIntyre river and others form the NSW/QLD border and for much of the border area there seems to be 2 ABS data sets, one that follows the river pretty well and one that doesn't really but uses less data points. What should happen in that case? You can see the descrepency in this map: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=-28.6522lon=150.6372zoom=12layers=B000FTF ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au -- Franc ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Manipulating ABS suburb data, and related data..
I'll give some thought to how to fix this. If we have find that there are still issues after the bug fixs (i.e the editors can't split them in to smaller bits), I think I can work out how to delete the way, upload replacement shorter ways and link them back in to the relation cheers On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 10:40 PM, Liz ed...@billiau.net wrote: On Sun, 26 Apr 2009, Liz wrote: 1433 nodes split it into 600+ and 700+, still couldn't upload the change. I wait on the bug report - someone has another problem with relations and they may be related problems Merkaartor let me bypass the problem and split the way however, now one length has two relations member of multipolygon Oxley member of mulitpolygon KeriKeri other sector has only one relation member of multipolygon KeriKeri attempting to add this sector to multipolygon Oxley fails transfer aborted due to error condition 'Interesting' problem back to bug reporting and somewhere out here (Balranald region) is a way with over 3000 nodes so it will choke too at some stage :-( ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au -- Franc ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Manipulating ABS suburb data, and related data..
I totally agee that it's a good idea to work this out, I've been silent on the matter because I'm far from clear as to what is a good approach. I'm currently wrestling with trying to get a handle on how we can tell whether the ABS data is more geographically accurate than yahoo or other data (not necessairly whether it is an accuate reflection of the boundaries) So, yes - thoughts please cheers On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 2:05 PM, Ian Sergeant iserg...@hih.com.au wrote: Okay - so the ABS data is in. Moving the Murrumbidgee appears successful. Can we document a process for how we treat this data and the data surrounding it. Firstly, is it generally desirable for it to align with other data? For example coastline and riverbanks, where it is apparent that it should align? If so, do we reuse the same ways, and just apply the relation? If so, and in a particular case we are confident that the ABS data isn't correctly aligned to a feature - say a coastline - how do we indicate that it is altered on the relation? Perhaps if we have a standard way of doing this, we can put it on the wiki somwhere. Any thoughts? Ian. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au -- Franc ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] suburb boundaries
[snip] That made a serious difference the the speed of things, wow. Yep, latency is really nasty for this sort of thing Now to resolve the differences between my own boundary work and the ABS stuff in northern adelaide, and at a first glance I must say I'm glad I told you to upload the data anyway, because there's a couple of places where I think the ABS is more correct than my results (and a few the other way also of course ;) Going to be fun correlating the two. :) Yes, my head is spinning even from the small number of bit I have looked at. A friend very conveniently recently moved to the street that appears to define a border in the area I am in. However here address is the 'other' suburb from what the ABS data says. To throw a spanner in the works the ABS data seem very reasonable from my local knowledge, so the question is how to find out which is 'right' cheers -- =b ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au -- Franc ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] suburb boundaries
[snip] Futher poking around I've found the 'Unclassified SA' 'suburb', containing over 100 segments scattered all over the state, I assume most other states will have a similar object, what's the thoughts of everyone on this case? Is it really needed? (I assume it's just a category in the ABS data that's come across wholesale). Seems to me anything not in side a suburb boundary would be considered unclassified anyway? I noticed a small number of those in NSW and decided to ignore them and just put them, that might have been a bad idea ;-( cheers -- =b ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au -- Franc ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] suburb boundaries
Yep, sounds like a sensible approach. I'm inclined towards leaving them in and adding a tag as deleting them feels like 'information loss', which I have biases against . . . . cheers On Sat, Mar 21, 2009 at 1:43 PM, Darrin Smith bel...@beldin.org wrote: On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 13:38:40 +1100 Franc Carter franc.car...@gmail.com wrote: [snip] Futher poking around I've found the 'Unclassified SA' 'suburb', containing over 100 segments scattered all over the state, I assume most other states will have a similar object, what's the thoughts of everyone on this case? Is it really needed? (I assume it's just a category in the ABS data that's come across wholesale). Seems to me anything not in side a suburb boundary would be considered unclassified anyway? I noticed a small number of those in NSW and decided to ignore them and just put them, that might have been a bad idea ;-( LOL, Well I guess we just need to decide if a 'unclassified' suburb is appropriate or not. If we decide it's not we blow away the relation and problem solved :) Or if keep it should we somehow flag it slightly differently so that we know it's not an actual suburb called 'Unclassified', although there are weirder names around ;) -- =b -- Franc ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] suburb boundaries
Boundaries are rendered on mapnik and osmarender as far as I know cheers On Sat, Mar 21, 2009 at 1:55 PM, James Andrewartha tr...@tartarus.uwa.edu.au wrote: On Sat, 2009-03-21 at 11:46 +1100, Franc Carter wrote: Hi all, The upload has completed (much faster running from dev). Are the suburbs rendered, or do they only show up in an editor like JOSM? James Andrewartha -- Franc ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[talk-au] postcode boundaries
I have taken a very simple approach to postcode boundaries(1), and extracted a separate .osm file which can be used to eyeball the data and add in the boundaries to osm. If anyone wants a subset of these for areas they are familiar with let me know. I don't have the bandwidth to make the whole lot available on a web server however. cheers (1) Anything else was melting my brain -- Franc ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] suburb boundaries
oops, not to the list On Sat, Mar 21, 2009 at 2:52 PM, Franc Carter franc.car...@gmail.comwrote: I'm in the inner west of Sydney and am find that the boundaries are only *mostly correct* - so i'm not too surprised that outside the main cities they are a worse. Hopefully on a country wide basis it is still better than nothing. cheers On Sat, Mar 21, 2009 at 2:48 PM, Liz ed...@billiau.net wrote: On Sat, 21 Mar 2009, Franc Carter wrote: Hi all, The upload has completed (much faster running from dev). There were a couple of problems:-] thanks for letting us know its finished. my area is very bad - whether this is the council's fault or ABS fault I don't know, but the suburb boundaries are not right and I can't find any division between postcode 2680 and 2681. I don't know where the line is either, and probably not many people do know, as we don't have postal delivery and it isn't of practical importance. LIz ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au -- Franc -- Franc ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] suburb boundaries
Glad to see not all of NSW has been incorporated ;-) cheers On Sat, Mar 21, 2009 at 2:50 PM, Liz ed...@billiau.net wrote: On Sat, 21 Mar 2009, Franc Carter wrote: I noticed a small number of those in NSW and decided to ignore them and just put them, that might have been a bad idea NSW has a huge one, the unincorporated area ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au -- Franc ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[talk-au] Update: suburb boundaries
A quick update, the upload is 20% complete (yep, it's really slow). I am hopeful of getting an account on dev in the next week which should speed things up a lot. Failing that Michael Ritzert has kindly volunteered to run the upload from a server in Germany which should be better than Australia. cheers -- Franc ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] suburb boundaries import
I assumed it is copyrighted however, so not a valid source for OSM ;-( On Sun, Mar 8, 2009 at 11:23 PM, Narelle Irvine narelle.irv...@gmail.comwrote: The Dept of Lands database was said to be 94% correct in 2007 and improving. Most of their errors relate to the house numbers on a street, and I would assume that their suburb boundaries are correct. This data should take precendence over ABS data. Regards, Narelle. 2009/3/8 Franc Carter franc.car...@gmail.com: I wonder if this is because the data is/was off when it was created(2006) or because the boundaries have changed? On Sun, Mar 8, 2009 at 8:47 AM, Ben Kelley ben.kel...@gmail.com wrote: Hi. For NSW the Lands Department's Geospatial Portal http://gsp.maps.nsw.gov.au/ can show suburb boundaries in the cadastral layer. Of the area in question, where the ABS shows the boundary going neatly down the middle of my street, the NSW Lands Department shows the boundary between 1 street and 1/2 a street further south. That is, on the next street south, some houses are in my suburb, and some are in the next suburb. - Ben Kelley. 2009/3/6 Ben Kelley ben.kel...@gmail.com Hi. Any thoughts on how to work out the real boundary when the ABS data disagrees with commonly known boundaries? I don't know why I didn't notice this when I previewed the data, but the ABS data shows the boundary for my suburb going right down the middle of my street (when I believe it to be one street over). This puts my house in the next suburb over. I suspect the ABS data is wrong, but any thoughts on how to find out for sure? Franc - do you have a contact at the ABS who might be interested in corrections? - Ben Kelley. -- Franc ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au -- Franc ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] suburb boundaries import - Darwin quirk
Hmm yeah - that looks pretty odd. It *might* be more sensible once the process has finished, but I'm not holding my breath. But please make sure you wait until the upload as finished, as I believe the bulk_upload will get confuse if things have changed when it comes back to reuse those borders cheers On Sun, Mar 8, 2009 at 8:28 AM, Jeff Price jeff.pr...@rocketmail.comwrote: I was reminiscing about Darwin via OSM and noticed this boundary quirk. The boundary was created by ABS2006 on 1 Mar 09. I thought maybe the Casino had its own boundary but its actually the creek line. http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=-12.8lon=130.84079zoom=15layers=B000FTF Franc, I presume this will be an example of the minor touch ups needed polish of your great work? Or will the boundary probably make more sense as the nearby suburbs populate and the boundary takes its proper shape? Jeff. -- *From:* Franc Carter franc.car...@gmail.com *To:* Ben Kelley ben.kel...@gmail.com *Cc:* OSM Australian Talk List talk-au@openstreetmap.org *Sent:* Friday, 6 March, 2009 6:38:47 AM *Subject:* Re: [talk-au] suburb boundaries import I only have the licensing contact - I will follow up with her and see if I can get a content person. cheers On Fri, Mar 6, 2009 at 6:43 AM, Ben Kelley ben.kel...@gmail.com wrote: Hi. Any thoughts on how to work out the real boundary when the ABS data disagrees with commonly known boundaries? I don't know why I didn't notice this when I previewed the data, but the ABS data shows the boundary for my suburb going right down the middle of my street (when I believe it to be one street o ver). This puts my house in the next suburb over. I suspect the ABS data is wrong, but any thoughts on how to find out for sure? Franc - do you have a contact at the ABS who might be interested in corrections? - Ben Kelley. -- Franc ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au -- Franc ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] suburb boundaries import
I only have the licensing contact - I will follow up with her and see if I can get a content person. cheers On Fri, Mar 6, 2009 at 6:43 AM, Ben Kelley ben.kel...@gmail.com wrote: Hi. Any thoughts on how to work out the real boundary when the ABS data disagrees with commonly known boundaries? I don't know why I didn't notice this when I previewed the data, but the ABS data shows the boundary for my suburb going right down the middle of my street (when I believe it to be one street o ver). This puts my house in the next suburb over. I suspect the ABS data is wrong, but any thoughts on how to find out for sure? Franc - do you have a contact at the ABS who might be interested in corrections? - Ben Kelley. -- Franc ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Boundary questions.
While we are thinking about alignment etc, I have found another case we should consider. In some areas the ABS data does not line up with the existing coastline which has come from yahoo or landsat., e.g * Yowie Bay in sydney which I assume comes from Yahoo * The Whitsunday islands that I assume comes from landsat Once the upload is done I am inclined align the the existing Whitsunday Islands to the new suburb boundary. But what about the the yahoo based coastline - case by case based on gps traces if available ? what about if we have no traces ? cheers -- Franc ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Boundary questions.
Agreed, it's not as simple as I was hoping ;-( cheers On Thu, Mar 5, 2009 at 11:01 AM, Ross Scanlon i...@4x4falcon.com wrote: In some areas the ABS data does not line up with the existing coastline which has come from yahoo or landsat., e.g * Yowie Bay in sydney which I assume comes from Yahoo * The Whitsunday islands that I assume comes from landsat Once the upload is done I am inclined align the the existing Whitsunday Islands to the new suburb boundary. But what about the the yahoo based coastline - case by case based on gps traces if available ? what about if we have no traces ? * Yowie Bay in sydney which I assume comes from Yahoo * The Whitsunday islands that I assume comes from landsat Once the upload is done I am inclined align the the existing Whitsunday Islands to the new suburb boundary. The Whitsunday islands are PGS data. Some sections have been aligned to Yahoo but not all. I'd be carefull about aligning to the ABS data without looking at Yahoo or some other sat image. The ABS data cuts across the mouth of some bays and inlets and also extends too far up some of the inlets. Have a look at Whitsunday Island with Yahoo imagery as the background. Part of Cid Harbour (western side) is cut off and Hill Inlet extends all the way up the inlet which probably should be marked as a river. Also have a look at the area of Hamilton Island airport as the ABS data cuts across the runway and follows the original coastline. So this data has obviously not been updated since 1984 when the runway was built. -- Cheers Ross ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au -- Franc ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] suburb boundaries import
On Sun, Mar 1, 2009 at 11:30 PM, b.schulz...@scu.edu.au wrote: Wow, that's almost a month. Well, keep us all posted :). This is rather exciting! Ok, that's nerdy, but we're on OSM so it's allowed, right? Yeah - the latency from here to the UK is just nasty. I'll send out updates interesting milestones. Do you know what area it is uploading? As in, can you link to a nicely rendered area once part of the upload is done? Not really, the upload is happening based of the order of extraction from a perl hash table which is effectively random cheers Apologies for the disjointed writing, I should be asleep. - Original Message - From: Franc Carter franc.car...@gmail.com Date: Sunday, March 1, 2009 11:14 pm Subject: Re: [talk-au] suburb boundaries import To: b.schulz...@scu.edu.au Cc: talk-au@openstreetmap.org Quite a while going on the current rate. The estimate from bulk_upload is 647 hours - but the estimate is still not particularly stable. cheers On Sun, Mar 1, 2009 at 11:06 PM, b.schulz...@scu.edu.au wrote: You ripper! How long are we looking at for the whole import? - Original Message - From: Franc Carter franc.car...@gmail.com Date: Sunday, March 1, 2009 1:43 pm Subject: [talk-au] suburb boundaries import To: talk-au@openstreetmap.org talk-au@openstreetmap.org Is now running, please leave anything with source=ABS_2006 alone until the import is complete cheers -- Franc ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au -- Franc -- Franc ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] suburb boundaries import
Yep, but I didn't have any luck finding a server to do it from - my inquiry on the dev list didn't get any response cheers On Sun, Mar 1, 2009 at 11:38 PM, Cameron osm-mailing-li...@justcameron.comwrote: Could it be interrupted and run on a server in the UK (or even better, on an OSM server in the same location as the db server?) ~Cameron 2009/3/1 Franc Carter franc.car...@gmail.com On Sun, Mar 1, 2009 at 11:30 PM, b.schulz...@scu.edu.au wrote: Wow, that's almost a month. Well, keep us all posted :). This is rather exciting! Ok, that's nerdy, but we're on OSM so it's allowed, right? Yeah - the latency from here to the UK is just nasty. I'll send out updates interesting milestones. Do you know what area it is uploading? As in, can you link to a nicely rendered area once part of the upload is done? Not really, the upload is happening based of the order of extraction from a perl hash table which is effectively random cheers Apologies for the disjointed writing, I should be asleep. - Original Message - From: Franc Carter franc.car...@gmail.com Date: Sunday, March 1, 2009 11:14 pm Subject: Re: [talk-au] suburb boundaries import To: b.schulz...@scu.edu.au Cc: talk-au@openstreetmap.org Quite a while going on the current rate. The estimate from bulk_upload is 647 hours - but the estimate is still not particularly stable. cheers On Sun, Mar 1, 2009 at 11:06 PM, b.schulz...@scu.edu.au wrote: You ripper! How long are we looking at for the whole import? - Original Message - From: Franc Carter franc.car...@gmail.com Date: Sunday, March 1, 2009 1:43 pm Subject: [talk-au] suburb boundaries import To: talk-au@openstreetmap.org talk-au@openstreetmap.org Is now running, please leave anything with source=ABS_2006 alone until the import is complete cheers -- Franc ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au -- Franc -- Franc ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au -- Franc ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[talk-au] suburb boundaries import
Is now running, please leave anything with source=ABS_2006 alone until the import is complete cheers -- Franc ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[talk-au] some post code boundaries
Hi, From reading some info on the ABS web site and some random examples from the ABS data set it appears that 'some' postcode boundaries align exactly with suburb boundaries. For these I could import the post code boundaries in the same upload as the suburb boundaries Worth doing ? cheers -- Franc ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] suburb boundaries
I know very little about the rendering, but I would suspect not. each boundary is going to divide two suburbs and may of them are quite short - so I would expect that representing them on a generic map is quite difficult to do. cheers On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 10:44 PM, Luke Woolley lswool...@gmail.com wrote: I am stoked that the import will soon commence, but I have one query. I can't remember if this has already been asked but do the boundaries of a suburb render the name of the suburb, like the place=suburb tag currently does for tagged nodes or will it just show those fancy purple lines on the map. Thanks. On 25/02/2009, at 9:16 PM, Franc Carter franc.car...@gmail.com wrote: I *believe* that it is a subdivision of a state. Sydney in an addressing sense refers to the CBD of the city (the area with post code 2000). cheers On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 9:12 PM, Nick Hocking nick.hock...@gmail.com nick.hock...@gmail.com wrote: I say go for it. Although I am 150% percent against any mass loading or routable things (like roads) I think that suburbs are best done by this import and then we have to try to validate the boundaries, maybe doorknock both sides of the alledged boundary and see if people know which suburb they are in. PS is a suburb a subdivision of a city or a state. E.G should Prospect be in Adelaide;South Australia;Australia ... or should it be in South Australia; Australia In Canberra it sounds better to say Turner, ACT than Turner, Canberra, ACT but I'm not so sure for larger cities. Maybe because there is only one city in the ACT. Nick ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.orgTalk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au -- Franc ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au -- Franc ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] suburb boundaries
The data will be tagged as reviewed=no to indicate that a person has no confirmed that it is 'correct'. In the case if the Suburb boundaries I doubt it is actually possible to confirm the majority of the data 'on the ground' as their is no magical line on the ground. The data that will be imported is being provided by a government department (the ABS) who create it from the official source (the LGA). While the data is not 100% because it is a few years old, from the reviews of the data it looks pretty good. So, I see no way of getting a better set of information for this data set. On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 11:05 AM, David Murn da...@incanberra.com.auwrote: Hi all, No comment on the tag structure offered in the linked website, but I would like to stress that if you are importing mass data, that you clearly mark it as inaccurate, unless you have collected the data yourself by survey. There is nothing worse than a map of imported data (especially boundaries) that are indicated as correct when theyre not even close, due to importing old data or data with unknown faults. This has come up before from people importing mass data. Personally, I believe that OSM's strength is that most data is from personal survey, rather than just blindly imported from another database, and the mass importation of data, then means we not only have to survey, but also have to verify that data other people entered, is infact correct. Id rather have a 100% accurate map, than a 100% complete map. Then again, if you mean 'importing' from your own dataset of survey info, then by all means Im in agreeance with the move. Anyone else got a thought on the issue? David On Wed, 2009-02-25 at 00:15 +1100, Franc Carter wrote: Hi folks, I am ready to start the import of the suburb boundaries. So could you please have one last look at http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Catalogue/ABS_Data#OSM_Representation and let me know of any issues, barring any objections I'll start the import soon(ish) cheers -- Franc ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au -- Franc ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] ABS Import Wiki page
Yep, that seems to have a few advantages over the other order cheers On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 4:32 PM, BlueMM bluemm1975-...@yahoo.com wrote: Franc Carter franc.car...@... writes: Hi,It looks like the vote is in favour of relations and there is the beginnings of consensus around other tags.So I have updated the wiki page [SNIP] Hey, crazy idea, but should we be using something like au.gov.abs:xyz as the namespace? It matches the Java library format, and would group tags really well when sorted alphabetically. I wanted to suggest it before our first major import as trying to change a notation later on would suck big time. I could see future imports following a similar format, like au.gov.vic.land, au.com.whereis etc. Or maybe just use the above suggestion when there will be ambiguity like the ABS case. I can imagine being consistent would make sorted tags match up very nicely (like in Tagwatch or Potlatch if/when its tags are displayed sorted - I don't think they are yet but the TIGER guys wanted it) Thoughts? BlueMM ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au -- Franc ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[talk-au] Suburb boundaries - getting close
Ok, it seems my conversion script is now producing sane results so it's time to work out what the final output should look like. The first question that I think we need to answer is, how do we represent the data in OSM, there appears to be 3 options:- 1. Closed ways 2. Relations 3. Borders with a left/right tag Then we need to decide on what tags to apply to the data. The raw data has three fields * STATE_2006 A numerical identifier for the state the suburb is in * SSC_2006An identifier provided by the ABS * NAME_2006 The name of the suburb, which may have the old name in '()' after it. So, my initial proposal for tags is:- * name=? (with any old name removed) * source=Based_on_Australian_Bureau_of_Statistics _data (ABS ask for this) * ABS:reviewed=no * ABS:STATE_2006=? * ABS:NAME_2006=? * ABS:SSC_2006=? The 'ABS' part is just a suggestion - It's a bit short for my liking We also need to decide where these tags go - nodes, ways, relations. And if we go for the left/right approach a decision on how to -- Franc ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Suburb boundaries
A quick update. David Dean found a bug, which I am working on. I'll let you know once I have a fix. cheers On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 2:44 PM, Franc Carter franc.car...@gmail.comwrote: After some nashing of teeth and swearing I have script that converts the ABS data in to a set of non-overlapping ways with some minimal info on the ways. I'd like some volunteers who I can give some subset of the data to (name your subrubs/areas) to have a look over and see if it 'looks ok' (i.e correct enough and no pathological cases I have missed). Then, we can start making some more solid decisions about exactly what form we want the data uploaded in. cheers -- Franc -- Franc ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[talk-au] Suburb boundaries
After some nashing of teeth and swearing I have script that converts the ABS data in to a set of non-overlapping ways with some minimal info on the ways. I'd like some volunteers who I can give some subset of the data to (name your subrubs/areas) to have a look over and see if it 'looks ok' (i.e correct enough and no pathological cases I have missed). Then, we can start making some more solid decisions about exactly what form we want the data uploaded in. cheers -- Franc ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Suburb boundaries
On Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 9:23 PM, Cameron osm-mailing-li...@justcameron.comwrote: How much do suburbs change anyway? Perhaps any changes could simply be introduced manually. ~Cameron I suspect this is true, changing large numbers of suburbs sounds unlikely. If we had suddenly had a new set of this data (say at the next census) then my first thought would be to just 'diff' the two sets in some way. Of course if they change the the format is supplied in or there are subtle changes in say the signifiant digits or node ordering then the whole thing gets harder. cheers 2009/2/5 Darrin Smith bel...@beldin.org On Thu, 05 Feb 2009 20:23:07 +1030 Jack Burton j...@saosce.com.au wrote: Consider two suburbs, A B, whose boundary is currently defined by a river. Now let's say that by the time the next ABS update occurs, that boundary has changed, and a small part of what used to be suburb A has become part of suburb B (it can happen). Since the ABS data contains only suburb boundaries (and no separate way for the river itself), and we're using multiple segments per boundary, and someone has helpfully merged that boundary segment with the way that forms the river (as I think you suggested earlier, to avoid stacking up ways on top of each other), there'd be no method for the update mechanism to know whether the course of the river itself has changed (and therefore so has the boundary segment, so it should move the way that defines both) or whether the river has stayed where it was but the boundary no longer uses that part of it (so it should split ways, create a new one, then add it to the boundary relation). This is an automated process, if it can be explain logically the computer can be made to do it. As I said before, as soon as any points are moved things become complicated anyway. If I were implementing this part of it (note Franc is only talking about a one-time import at this stage anyway, so we are talking somewhat theoretically): I'd uniquely identify each common boundary between 2 suburbs that we make a way. Use a diff mechanism to detect a change on said boundary, and look at the data, updating and adjusting a way that hasn't been modified at all and removing and replacing the way if it's been changed beyond the ability to adjust. With a single closed way around each suburb, the problem does not arise, since the update process does not need to care about the river itself (and should be clever enough to detect that another way uses some of the existing nodes, so duplicate those nodes instead of moving them). You fob it off so simply but there's a lot of work in your solution also. Following your example any time a minor change happens to a suburb it's likely to re-align every node on the boundary back to the original place, in fact it will most likely have to remove re-add the entire way since it won't be sure which nodes are which any more, someone could have added more, removed some, etc. You could tag every node I guess, but seems a lot of bloat for small gain, and similar gains would be made to the relation model with individual tags anyway. So we have the boundary solution which when a boundary changes only has to modify 1 shorter way along the common boundary between the suburbs that change or the way solution which most likely requires the whole way to be replaced on an update, possibly removing other adjustments made on other parts of the way. From this point of view the boundary solution requires less far reaching changes than the area solution. Of course any unique ID is risky anyway because it can be accidentally removed, but that's the risk I guess :D -- =b ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au -- Franc ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Suburb boundaries
I just had a conversation with a really helpful person at the ABS. She indicated that the ABS is taking a view of the data that is very similar/compatible with (at least my understanding) the view that OpenStreetMap is taking towards the data. Specifically she indicated that the ABS was not specifically concerned that attribution was done in a specific manner, just that the attribution was able to be found. She will put something in an email so that we have an official statement. So, it looks like we may well have a some valuable data to add, which is good because I already spent a couple of hours working out hot to import it ;-) There are two issues that I have come across with converting to osm:- 1. What way do we want to represent the data, e.g closed ways or relations consisting of borders - something else ? 2. The more technical problem that the boundaries are defined fairly precisely (or more accurately there are lots of points defining the boundaries). So the .osm file is very large - so eyeballing it in josm is not going to work. So I'm interested in people's suggestions of how we want to represent the data and on methods we can use to sanity check the data before we upload it. cheers On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 6:23 AM, James Churchill pel...@gmail.com wrote: Franc Carter franc.car...@... writes: While putting together an email for this I came across an issue. Currently OSM is Creative Commons licensed which looks pretty compatible with their license (ignoring the practicalities of attribution). However the license is being discussed at the moment and may well soon change and/or split. Should I wait until the license issue gets 'sorted' ? I don't see a problem - the CC license the data is under only requires attribution, it doesn't restrict what the license of the derivative work is. And as OSM is looking for a license that (and I quote) needs to give our database the same three basic licensing elements (freely copiable; share-alike; attribution required) as it has at present there's little worry of OSM becoming incompatible. At least, the matter shouldn't delay inquiries :) - James ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au -- Franc ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Suburb boundaries
I did some basic sanity checking in my quick script and there is a lot of points that are doubled up (i.e have the same lat/lon) which indicates that the data does form sensible/consistent boundaries. My 'intuition' is that the shape=boundary problem is solvable, I'll just need to put some thought in to it - actually as I write this, I think I know the approach ;-) Solving this will also help with one of the other issues that I came across, which was 'curve simplification'. There are vast numbers of redundant points in many of the boundaries where they make no difference to the shape. However doing curve simplification on closed shapes with shared boundaries results in different points being removed from the two boundaries. Small samples sounds like a good first approach - I have lots of gps tracks for the area I live in that were taken with a roof mounted aerial, so I have a reasonably high level of confidence in them cheers On Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 4:02 PM, Darrin Smith bel...@beldin.org wrote: On Thu, 5 Feb 2009 15:52:43 +1100 Franc Carter franc.car...@gmail.com wrote: From a 'philosophical point of view', I tend to agree that suburbs are made of a set of boundaries between adjacent areas. This was not how I did it in my first (very quick) attempt ;-( An advantage of having to sort out the legal issue means you get a bit of time to fiddle around trying out options before you get the full a-ok and import it ;) The data is in shapefiles that define each suburb boundary individually, so I'll have a think about how to extract out the individual borders (suggestions welcome) Hmm, so there's no real surety that 2 adjacent suburbs even share the same boundary? Perhaps then the single area option might have some merit from a 'getting the data in there' point of view or we write a convoluted script to correlate things... One question about aligning them that springs to mind is 'what should we align' - I wonder if the accuracy of the data is better than the average accuracy of a gps or yahoo imagery. That's a tricky question because it might be more 'accurate' because it might measure to an exact positional definition but is that useful or relevant to the OSM structure whereby a boundary down the middle of the road is more conceptually accurate Guess we have to get a small sample of the data into a city somewhere where we have plenty of GPS as a trial run (once we have the full ok). and see how it correlates to reality. GPS + Yahoo never correlate enough (at least in SA) to make it possible for both to be relevant :) ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au -- Franc ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Suburb boundaries
While putting together an email for this I came across an issue. Currently OSM is Creative Commons licensed which looks pretty compatible with their license (ignoring the practicalities of attribution). However the license is being discussed at the moment and may well soon change and/or split. Should I wait until the license issue gets 'sorted' ? cheers On Sun, Jan 25, 2009 at 11:14 AM, Franc Carter franc.car...@gmail.comwrote: I'm happy to follow this up with the ABS if no-one else has done so yet. cheers On Sat, Jan 24, 2009 at 5:02 PM, Luke Woolley lswool...@gmail.com wrote: Well, this is the copyright info displayed on the ABS website, which states that the data appears to be under the Creative Commons Attribution 2.5 Australia http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/2.5/au/ licence which means we can copy, distribute, transmit and/or remix the data as long as it is attributed. If the data is implemented into OSM and is unchanged from the original data, Source: Australian Bureau of Statistics must be mentioned. If the data is a derivative of the original data, Based on Australian Bureau of Statistics data must be mentioned. But because we want to look over everything we would like to use in OSM with the finest of fine tooth combs, somebody should shoot off an email to *intermediary.managem...@abs.gov.au*intermediary.managem...@abs.gov.au and see what they say. 2009/1/24 James Churchill pel...@gmail.com James Churchill pel...@... writes: Looks like it's CC licensed; here's a link: http://www.abs.gov.au/websitedbs/D3310114.nsf/4a256353001af3ed4b2562bb00121564/70353d5dd53b0e2dca257522001e996c!OpenDocumenthttp://www.abs.gov.au/websitedbs/D3310114.nsf/4a256353001af3ed4b2562bb00121564/70353d5dd53b0e2dca257522001e996c%21OpenDocument - James Whoops, just noticed that link isn't explicit about what is CC licensed; here's another link: http://www.abs.gov.au/websitedbs/D3310114.nsf/Home/%C2%A9+Copyright?OpenDocument At the very least, it has contact details for the person to ask about the rights. - James ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au -- Franc -- Franc ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Suburb boundaries
I'm happy to follow this up with the ABS if no-one else has done so yet. cheers On Sat, Jan 24, 2009 at 5:02 PM, Luke Woolley lswool...@gmail.com wrote: Well, this is the copyright info displayed on the ABS website, which states that the data appears to be under the Creative Commons Attribution 2.5 Australia http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/2.5/au/ licence which means we can copy, distribute, transmit and/or remix the data as long as it is attributed. If the data is implemented into OSM and is unchanged from the original data, Source: Australian Bureau of Statistics must be mentioned. If the data is a derivative of the original data, Based on Australian Bureau of Statistics data must be mentioned. But because we want to look over everything we would like to use in OSM with the finest of fine tooth combs, somebody should shoot off an email to * intermediary.managem...@abs.gov.au* intermediary.managem...@abs.gov.au and see what they say. 2009/1/24 James Churchill pel...@gmail.com James Churchill pel...@... writes: Looks like it's CC licensed; here's a link: http://www.abs.gov.au/websitedbs/D3310114.nsf/4a256353001af3ed4b2562bb00121564/70353d5dd53b0e2dca257522001e996c!OpenDocumenthttp://www.abs.gov.au/websitedbs/D3310114.nsf/4a256353001af3ed4b2562bb00121564/70353d5dd53b0e2dca257522001e996c%21OpenDocument - James Whoops, just noticed that link isn't explicit about what is CC licensed; here's another link: http://www.abs.gov.au/websitedbs/D3310114.nsf/Home/%C2%A9+Copyright?OpenDocument At the very least, it has contact details for the person to ask about the rights. - James ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au -- Franc ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[talk-au] private suburban roads
Hi, I've just mapped an area in Sydney where there are several residential roads marked as private but are not gated. What access=* tags do you think should be put on these ? cheers -- Franc ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Suburb boundaries
Hi Ben, have you managed to find a good source of boundaries for NSW ? cheers On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 9:03 AM, Ben Kelley ben.kel...@gmail.com wrote: Hi. Does anyone have any thoughts on how to mark suburb boundaries (in areas that have them)? The closest thing I can find is boundary=administrative at http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:boundary but I haven't seen this used anywhere. London uses this to mark boroughs (equivalent to council areas) with left:district=name and right:district=name to indicate the names on either side of the way. The above page seems to indicate that admin_level=10 shows a suburb border in Australia. Has anyone used this tag? How do you show the suburb names? Are there any examples of how this renders? - Ben Kelley. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au -- Franc ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Suburb boundaries
That's a shame. A couple of years ago I had an email conversation with someone from the Lands Department and got permission to 'Derive Suburb Boundaries' - however when I thought about the conversation more deeply I came to the conclusion that it probably wasn't ok as he had probably got a bogus understanding of the OSM license (as I did not understand it that well at the time). Unfortunately, when I went back to contact him he seems to have disappeared. cheers On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 4:45 PM, Ben Kelley ben.kel...@gmail.com wrote: Hi. No I haven't found a good source of boundaries. The cadastral layer for the NSW Lands Department geospatial portal probably has them, but I'm not sure of the licensing issues. - Ben. On 1/12/09, Franc Carter franc.car...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Ben, have you managed to find a good source of boundaries for NSW ? cheers On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 9:03 AM, Ben Kelley ben.kel...@gmail.com wrote: Hi. Does anyone have any thoughts on how to mark suburb boundaries (in areas that have them)? The closest thing I can find is boundary=administrative at http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:boundary but I haven't seen this used anywhere. London uses this to mark boroughs (equivalent to council areas) with left:district=name and right:district=name to indicate the names on either side of the way. The above page seems to indicate that admin_level=10 shows a suburb border in Australia. Has anyone used this tag? How do you show the suburb names? Are there any examples of how this renders? - Ben Kelley. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au -- Franc -- Ben Kelley ben.kel...@gmail.com http://www.users.on.net/~bhkelley/ http://www.users.on.net/%7Ebhkelley/ -- Franc ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Major road cleanup
I map almost exactly the same way On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 2:13 PM, Roy Rankin rran...@ihug.com.au wrote: When to use ways as common boundaries is an interesting issue with OSM. I have been an active mapper since last Easter and therefore I have though a lot about this. I am currently doing the following as a guideline but sometimes do differently if it seems best. Between roads and areas, I separate the road and the area. My thinking here is that roads typically have public owned buffer strips on either side and usually a solder, footpath, or curb. The other factor is that roads have two dimensions (width and length) but are represented by a one dimensional line in OSM. Thus even for the case of parking bays on a road it still makes sense to me not use the road as a boundary for the parking bay. I do, however, use common boundaries between adjacent areas. As an example, I have just mapped two schools with a common boundary and both with a boundary with a park without a gap between the boundaries. In this case I then ignore the warning messages from the JOSM validator. For areas and water boundaries (such as coastlines and lake boundaries) I use a common boundary. This makes things easier when the water boundary is tweaked because of better images or survey data. I would tend to treat rivers or streams which again are one dimensional representations of two dimensional things the same way I would treat a road. I hope others find these comments useful, Roy Rankin Liz wrote: On Sat, 20 Dec 2008, Nick Hocking wrote: Talking of bridges, I'm trying to add a bridge, over a storm water drain to a road in Canberra. However it is just about impossible since on each side of this road is a park and the parks are using parts of the road as part of their own perimeter. I've thought about this a bit more, and its not the best idea to be using roads as park or other area perimeters. It sure would make it fast to put this stuff in initially, but any subsequent alterations - say changes in the road itself - mean big alterations to be made by the next mapper. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au -- Franc ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] diary entry with interesting visualization of users contributions
The site said that it was UK only - has this changed ? cheers On Tue, Oct 14, 2008 at 3:55 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks for sharing these links! I've added a RSS feed of edits for a couple of particular locations I am concentrating on, so it is nice to see if any new contributors pop up, and to see what they have done, and to watch the tag use. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au -- Franc ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] should we migrate to osm forum
I think flexibility is the core thing needed from whatever is used for mass communication. Some people find email better, some forms and some rss. So if we are gong to change then I think it needs to support mirroring to all three of these. On Sun, Jun 8, 2008 at 6:48 AM, David Dean [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mtrax, mtrax wrote: Do you think we should request a section to Australian users? I personally find it easier to respond on forums than mailing lists. Yes, having an australian section on the forum would of course be useful, and it seems to be that moving to forums would probably be the long term trend in this kind of thing. However, if you still want to access the mailing list but in a forum-like format, have you tried gmane.org or nabble.com ? For example, I use http://www.nabble.com/OpenStreetMap---Australian-Talk-f35319.html to read the Australian mailing list so that I can subscribe to the resulting RSS feed in Google Reader. Same with the general and routing mailing lists. If we moved to forum-based discussions I would hope full-text RSS feeds could be provided, but they don't seem to exist on the OSM forums at the moment at least. - David -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/should-we-migrate-to-osm-forum-tp17712030p17712970.html Sent from the OpenStreetMap - Australian Talk mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-au -- Franc ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Armidale completed; wiki updated
Congratulations, nice work cheers On Sat, Mar 1, 2008 at 1:38 PM, Gordon Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For info... I've finished the vehicle-centric view of Armidale, updated the WikiProject_Australia entry, moved Armidale out of the Hunter Valley and into the Northern Tablelands :-), and added bookmarks to other hamlets/towns I intend to work on. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/WikiProject_Australia#NSW.2FNorthern_Tablelands Gordon -- Gordon Smith http://las.new-england.net.au/ ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-au -- Franc ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-au
