[Talk-GB] Solar panels quarterly project progress

[Dan S]

Hi all,

The current quarterly project is: solar panels. The good news: we've hit 25,000!
(From a baseline of fewer than 5,000 at the start of the year.)
https://twitter.com/mclduk/status/1156274870625472513

Great work folks. It'd be great to find a way to get other people to
help spot solar panels in their own neck of the woods. But we're on
our way!

Dan

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Re: [Talk-GB] Valuation Office Agency council tax data (was postcode mapping (was Re: Automated Code-Point Open postcode editing (simple cases only))

[David Woolley]

On 30/07/2019 15:12, Stephen Colebourne wrote:

What about the Valuation Office Agency council tax data?
http://cti.voa.gov.uk/cti/inits.asp

I found this recently, and it allows you to lookup from a postcode to
the individual addresses (presumably in their standard recognised
form). I've not used the data, although I'd love to because it is so
good.


Anything giving standard form is going to be a derivative of PAF and/or 
UPRN databases.


The argument for the food safety data is the addresses are as provided 
by the business.  The reason you can't use Land Registry information is 
that the addresses have been validated.


I suspect the Post Office might challenge even the food safety data if 
OSM postcode coverages started to seriously compete.


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Re: [Talk-GB] Valuation Office Agency council tax data (was postcode mapping (was Re: Automated Code-Point Open postcode editing (simple cases only))

[Tom Hughes]

On 30/07/2019 15:12, Stephen Colebourne wrote:


Is it open data? Well, it has "Crown Copyright" at the bottom, so
maybe? I'd love to know if this dataset has been considered before, as
it can turn a postcode into something wereally need.


What part of "crown copyright" says "open data" to you?

What it says to me is "copyright for 50 years from the end of
the year when it was published" so unless there is some license
allowing it's use then no, it can't be used.

Tom

--
Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu)
http://compton.nu/

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[Talk-GB] Valuation Office Agency council tax data (was postcode mapping (was Re: Automated Code-Point Open postcode editing (simple cases only))

[Stephen Colebourne]

What about the Valuation Office Agency council tax data?
http://cti.voa.gov.uk/cti/inits.asp

I found this recently, and it allows you to lookup from a postcode to
the individual addresses (presumably in their standard recognised
form). I've not used the data, although I'd love to because it is so
good.

Is it open data? Well, it has "Crown Copyright" at the bottom, so
maybe? I'd love to know if this dataset has been considered before, as
it can turn a postcode into something wereally need.

If I've understood the rules, the data could be used in reverse ie. to
use as clues to try and confirm when surveying, so long as only the
things you see on the ground are added?

Stephen


On Tue, 30 Jul 2019 at 14:54, David Woolley  wrote:
>
> On 30/07/2019 14:19, Mateusz Konieczny wrote:
> > Is it typical for post codes to be posted like housenumbers? Either on
> > buildings or postboxes?
>
> Postcodes almost never.  The only time you would normally find them is
> where the building is a company's registered office.
>
> Housenumbers seem to be only on (gut feeling) about 30% of houses these
> days, and maybe 5% of commercial premises.  (When they are on houses,
> they are typically unreadable after dark.  Almost no-one has front gates
> any longer, which might have carried them in the past.)
>
> What appears on street signs and post boxes is the outbound postcode (up
> to the end of the first number).
>
> Businesses are required to provide an address for service in
> advertising, including web sites.  This may well be their accountant's.
> Electronically, they need to provide a geographic address, but, on
> paper, I think a PO Box number is acceptable.  Non-compliance is
> endemic, e.g. businesses only contactable over mobile phone numbers.
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] postcode mapping (was Re: Automated Code-Point Open postcode editing (simple cases only))

[Philip Barnes]

Not displaying a house number is particularly prevalent with 'end of 
cul-de-sac' man where this makes working out where odd and even meet.

Phil (trigpoint)

On Tuesday, 30 July 2019, David Woolley wrote:
> On 30/07/2019 14:19, Mateusz Konieczny wrote:
> > Is it typical for post codes to be posted like housenumbers? Either on 
> > buildings or postboxes?
> 
> Postcodes almost never.  The only time you would normally find them is 
> where the building is a company's registered office.
> 
> Housenumbers seem to be only on (gut feeling) about 30% of houses these 
> days, and maybe 5% of commercial premises.  (When they are on houses, 
> they are typically unreadable after dark.  Almost no-one has front gates 
> any longer, which might have carried them in the past.)
> 
> What appears on street signs and post boxes is the outbound postcode (up 
> to the end of the first number).
> 
> Businesses are required to provide an address for service in 
> advertising, including web sites.  This may well be their accountant's. 
> Electronically, they need to provide a geographic address, but, on 
> paper, I think a PO Box number is acceptable.  Non-compliance is 
> endemic, e.g. businesses only contactable over mobile phone numbers.
> 
> ___
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>

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Re: [Talk-GB] postcode mapping (was Re: Automated Code-Point Open postcode editing (simple cases only))

[David Woolley]

On 30/07/2019 14:19, Mateusz Konieczny wrote:
Is it typical for post codes to be posted like housenumbers? Either on 
buildings or postboxes?


Postcodes almost never.  The only time you would normally find them is 
where the building is a company's registered office.


Housenumbers seem to be only on (gut feeling) about 30% of houses these 
days, and maybe 5% of commercial premises.  (When they are on houses, 
they are typically unreadable after dark.  Almost no-one has front gates 
any longer, which might have carried them in the past.)


What appears on street signs and post boxes is the outbound postcode (up 
to the end of the first number).


Businesses are required to provide an address for service in 
advertising, including web sites.  This may well be their accountant's. 
Electronically, they need to provide a geographic address, but, on 
paper, I think a PO Box number is acceptable.  Non-compliance is 
endemic, e.g. businesses only contactable over mobile phone numbers.


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Re: [Talk-GB] postcode mapping (was Re: Automated Code-Point Open postcode editing (simple cases only))

[Philip Barnes]

We can use fhrs to obtain postcodes for businesses which sell food and drink, 
and these can be extended to other premises. 

Residential areas are rather more difficult.

Phil (trigpoint) 

On Tuesday, 30 July 2019, Andrzej wrote:
> Only postbox reference numbers, which are somewhat related to local postcodes 
> (share the first few characters). It may still be useful to add such quest to 
> StreetComplete.
> 
> Retail businesses and amenities tend to advertise their full addresses, 
> including a postcode but there is no rule to that.
> 
> Best regards, 
> ndrw6 
> 
> 
> On 30 July 2019 15:19:46 CEST, Mateusz Konieczny  
> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >30 Jul 2019, 11:56 by nd...@redhazel.co.uk:
> >
> >> 10M addresses that have yet to be surveyed.
> >>
> >Is it typical for post codes to be posted like housenumbers? Either on
> >buildings or postboxes?
> >
> >https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_postcodes
> > is not
> >clear,
> >http://www.livingwithdragons.com/2009/06/my-postbox-obsession
> > suggest
> >that it may be true.
> >
> >I am asking as it may be a suitable quest for StreetComplete.
>

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Re: [Talk-GB] postcode mapping (was Re: Automated Code-Point Open postcode editing (simple cases only))

[Andrzej]

Only postbox reference numbers, which are somewhat related to local postcodes 
(share the first few characters). It may still be useful to add such quest to 
StreetComplete.

Retail businesses and amenities tend to advertise their full addresses, 
including a postcode but there is no rule to that.

Best regards, 
ndrw6 


On 30 July 2019 15:19:46 CEST, Mateusz Konieczny  
wrote:
>
>
>
>30 Jul 2019, 11:56 by nd...@redhazel.co.uk:
>
>> 10M addresses that have yet to be surveyed.
>>
>Is it typical for post codes to be posted like housenumbers? Either on
>buildings or postboxes?
>
>https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_postcodes
> is not
>clear,
>http://www.livingwithdragons.com/2009/06/my-postbox-obsession
> suggest
>that it may be true.
>
>I am asking as it may be a suitable quest for StreetComplete.
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Re: [Talk-GB] postcode mapping (was Re: Automated Code-Point Open postcode editing (simple cases only))

[Gareth L]

I’ve certainly seen full addresses + postcode on the outside of some 
businesses. Never on a house though.

Leeds and London and a few other towns have partial postcodes on street signs.

That wiki page could do with an update and  links to current acceptable 
sources. (As it is flagged as out of date)


On 30 Jul 2019, at 14:20, Mateusz Konieczny 
mailto:matkoni...@tutanota.com>> wrote:




30 Jul 2019, 11:56 by nd...@redhazel.co.uk:
10M addresses that have yet to be surveyed.
Is it typical for post codes to be posted like housenumbers? Either on 
buildings or postboxes?

Https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_postcodes
 is not clear,
http://www.livingwithdragons.com/2009/06/my-postbox-obsession suggest that it 
may be true.

I am asking as it may be a suitable quest for StreetComplete.
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Re: [Talk-GB] postcode mapping (was Re: Automated Code-Point Open postcode editing (simple cases only))

[Dan S]

Op di 30 jul. 2019 om 14:21 schreef Mateusz Konieczny :
>
>
>
>
> 30 Jul 2019, 11:56 by nd...@redhazel.co.uk:
>
> 10M addresses that have yet to be surveyed.
>
> Is it typical for post codes to be posted like housenumbers? Either on 
> buildings or postboxes?

No

> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_postcodes is not clear,
> http://www.livingwithdragons.com/2009/06/my-postbox-obsession suggest that it 
> may be true.

No, the postboxes have individual IDs that are related to their
postcode district, but they're not actually full postcodes written on
the postboxes.

Best
Dan

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[Talk-GB] postcode mapping (was Re: Automated Code-Point Open postcode editing (simple cases only))

[Mateusz Konieczny]

30 Jul 2019, 11:56 by nd...@redhazel.co.uk:

> 10M addresses that have yet to be surveyed.
>
Is it typical for post codes to be posted like housenumbers? Either on 
buildings or postboxes?

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_postcodes 
 is not clear,
http://www.livingwithdragons.com/2009/06/my-postbox-obsession 
 suggest that it 
may be true.

I am asking as it may be a suitable quest for StreetComplete.
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Re: [Talk-GB] Automated Code-Point Open postcode editing (simple cases only)

[Andrzej]

On 19 July 2019 17:58:58 CEST, Devonshire  wrote:
>
>I know that Robert is sincere in his views but the classic "don't add
>data to OSM because it will spoil someone else's enjoyment" always
>makes me chuckle. In most parts of the country the idea that the
>current cohort of mappers can add accurate address data by hand is pie
>in the sky.
>
>There are certainly issues with adding these postcodes to buildings in
>dense town centres but in those areas you can often find postcodes by
>other means anyway. I think adding postcodes to residential or rural
>areas from these datasets is fine but I personally wouldn't add them
>unless I had some on-the-ground knowledge of the area.

I've been thinking about it during my summer holidays (much needed step back). 
I strongly encourage others to add as many postcodes as they can, both manually 
and from Code-point open/ONS in low density areas. The latter are the only 
realistic and legal way of bringing OSM to a state where users of e.g. Maps.me 
or OsmAnd can expect a search for a postcode to usually work rather than 
usually fail. This is in my opinion the single most important issue individual 
British OSM users (who can't or don't want to purchase a Code-point license) 
are facing now. Having all houses tagged with postcodes, house numbers and 
street names is of course a noble goal but we are talking about 10M addresses 
that have yet to be surveyed. In contrast, a single searchable postcode is all 
most users need for navigation and this information is readily available now. 

I will keep updating my osm files on Github and support other mappers but I 
will not do more bulk postcode mapping myself. Having added well over 50k 
unique postcodes I am happy with the state of Cambridgeshire and surrounding 
areas. But doing that for the rest of the country would take a lot of effort 
and frankly speaking I need to readjust my priorities. 

Best regards, 
ndrw6 


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