Re: [Talk-GB] iD and accidental landuse deletions
Tom Chance wrote: Here's another one, this editor really ought to be fixed or removed: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/17655245 I tried using the JOSM Revert plugin, but it just downloaded the nodes without the way. I messaged this user offering to help fix back on 4/9 after someone mentioned the problem on IRC. The user didn't reply, so I've undeleted the pub and landuse: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/17830113 http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/17830207 http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/17830268 It looks OK to me now, but it's been a good few years since I've been in the pub, so I'd be grateful if someone local could check to make sure that it fits with their recollection too. Cheers, Andy ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] iD and accidental landuse deletions
Tom Chance wrote: I've seen two new users accidentally delete residential landuse areas near me in the past fortnight: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/17695130 Presumably http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/5019651 still needs to be restored? It should be doable with Potlatch 1: http://www.openstreetmap.org/edit?editor=potlatch#map=18/51.42733/-0.03833 Then Advanced, select way, Undelete, Click to unlock, Save. There are a couple of service roads to the east on the park that seem to exist in the imagery that were deleted back in 2009 that might be candidates for restoration too. Also the pub that they added could do with a main tag: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/2447618917 Has anyone tried to contact the user concerned to help them? http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/17505646 Pretty much the same story there, and the footpath that they've added http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/233665496 probably is intended to join at both ends. I think that we forget sometimes that doing new stuff is hard, sometimes things go wrong, and it's important that help is available when they do. It's rare to get a writeup from a new user perspective - we rarely see the thoughts of people who tried to add something but couldn't. Here's a new user diary entry from a month ago that contains a lot of insight though: http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/brittag/diary/19741 Cheers, Andy ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] iD and accidental landuse deletions
Tom Chance tom@... writes: Here's another one, this editor really ought to be fixed or removed:http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/17655245 I tried using the JOSM Revert plugin, but it just downloaded the nodes without the way. Tom Were the landuse areas attached to roads? -- Andrew ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] iD and accidental landuse deletions
On 10 Sep 2013, at 07:05, Andrew andrewhain...@hotmail.co.uk wrote: Tom Chance tom@... writes: Here's another one, this editor really ought to be fixed or removed:http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/17655245 I tried using the JOSM Revert plugin, but it just downloaded the nodes without the way. Tom Were the landuse areas attached to roads? It’s rather easy in iD to click the middle of an area and select the area. Shaun ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] iD and accidental landuse deletions
Shaun McDonald wrote: Were the landuse areas attached to roads? It’s rather easy in iD to click the middle of an area and select the area. It's the way it works ... if you click and there is nothing close, then it picks up an area which may well be outside the area you are looking at ... It would be MUCH safer if you had to pick the boundary to select it! -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk Rainbow Digital Media - http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] iD and accidental landuse deletions
Lester wrote: It would be MUCH safer if you had to pick the boundary to select it! But much harder to use for areas that share the boundary ways with an adjacent area. You'd have to resort to the / stuff that Potlatch uses or middle-click for JOSM (or whatever). New mappers are likely to make mistakes whatever editing software they use. Even if it is always a small percent, the rate OSM is growing that small percent represents a growing number of errors to notice. I'm not saying that there aren't ways to reduce the risk of large areas disappearing, but I don't think having to pick a boundary way would improve the usability of iD, and encouraging more people to edit regularly with an easy to use editor is worth currently having to reinstate the occasional landuse area in my opinion. Even experienced editors using unfamiliar editing software can make mistakes (reminds me I've got a couple of areas to fix, if they haven't been already, after I broke them with Vespucchi during SotM). Ed ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] iD and accidental landuse deletions
In my opinion you should always have to click the boundary. If not then it is impossible to determine what you have selected. What if there are many areas overlapping and you click inside the overlapped area? How could it determine which of the areas you want to select? On 10 September 2013 09:31, Lester Caine les...@lsces.co.uk wrote: Shaun McDonald wrote: Were the landuse areas attached to roads? It’s rather easy in iD to click the middle of an area and select the area. It's the way it works ... if you click and there is nothing close, then it picks up an area which may well be outside the area you are looking at ... It would be MUCH safer if you had to pick the boundary to select it! -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=**contacthttp://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk Rainbow Digital Media - http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.**ukhttp://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk __**_ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.**org/listinfo/talk-gbhttps://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb -- Paul Churchley http://about.me/paulchurchley ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] iD and accidental landuse deletions
On 10 September 2013 09:56, Ed Loach edlo...@gmail.com wrote: New mappers are likely to make mistakes whatever editing software they use. That's true. What I noticed with these landuse areas is: (a) the beginnings of a pattern, suggesting a defect in the software (b) that these changes are a real pain to undo, especially when the accidental deletion is part of a large and otherwise valid changeset, because residential landuse areas often follow wiggly routes populated with a lot of other features that one can accidentally click on, so I wish we had some better tools to undo other people's changes (tell me if I'm missing any!) Regards, Tom -- http://tom.acrewoods.net http://twitter.com/tom_chance ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] iD and accidental landuse deletions
Ed Loach wrote: It would be MUCH safer if you had to pick the boundary to select it! But much harder to use for areas that share the boundary ways with an adjacent area. You'd have to resort to the / stuff that Potlatch uses or middle-click for JOSM (or whatever). I think all I am asking for is that it only selects an area if the boundary is actually visible. But I'm used to 3D drawing packages which provide a select list when there are several entities within range. This warns when the wrong one is selected and allows selection of the right one. The problem is where several areas overlap, and you don't know that they are. -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk Rainbow Digital Media - http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] iD and accidental landuse deletions
On 10 September 2013 13:20, Tom Chance t...@acrewoods.net wrote: That's true. What I noticed with these landuse areas is: (a) the beginnings of a pattern, suggesting a defect in the software I gave iD a try recently, and went back to using Potlatch pretty quickly afterwards. One of the main reasons what that I found it too hard to see which object was selected. I found I needed the Bing background imagery on full brightness to see it clearly enough, and then the highlighting of the selected object just didn't stand out enough to make it immediately obvious what was selected. I wonder if this is something to do with the problem. (It may not help that I'm slightly red--green colour-blind, and the highlighting uses a red-ish colour, which is often overlayed on a green-ish Bing background image. I'd also agree with one of the later comments that it's not very intuitive if you can select an area, none of whose boundary is visible in the current map view. Robert -- Robert Whittaker ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] iD and accidental landuse deletions
I am very new to OSM (2 weeks!) and I have now switched to JOSM and I use that exclusively now as it is SOOO much better. Having said that, deleting stuff by accident is not particular to iD. I have deleted by accident with JOSM by having something selected which I am not aware of. Fortunately I didn't upload the changeset but it was a big heads up for me and now I am in the habit of selecting an empty area before I do anything just to be sure I don't have something selected unexpectedly. iD is a nice way to get more people involved perhaps as it is easy to use and requires no set up but perhaps it is a little too easy encouraging people to edit before they are actually aware of the impact they can have? Just a thought... - Paul Churchley http://about.me/paulchurchley On 7 September 2013 23:09, Tom Chance t...@acrewoods.net wrote: I've seen two new users accidentally delete residential landuse areas near me in the past fortnight: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/17695130 http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/17505646 Could this be a problem with the iD editor? Has anyone else noticed it? Tom -- http://tom.acrewoods.net http://twitter.com/tom_chance ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] iD and accidental landuse deletions
Here's another one, this editor really ought to be fixed or removed: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/17655245 I tried using the JOSM Revert plugin, but it just downloaded the nodes without the way. Tom On 8 September 2013 07:02, Paul Churchley p...@churchley.org wrote: I am very new to OSM (2 weeks!) and I have now switched to JOSM and I use that exclusively now as it is SOOO much better. Having said that, deleting stuff by accident is not particular to iD. I have deleted by accident with JOSM by having something selected which I am not aware of. Fortunately I didn't upload the changeset but it was a big heads up for me and now I am in the habit of selecting an empty area before I do anything just to be sure I don't have something selected unexpectedly. iD is a nice way to get more people involved perhaps as it is easy to use and requires no set up but perhaps it is a little too easy encouraging people to edit before they are actually aware of the impact they can have? Just a thought... - Paul Churchley http://about.me/paulchurchley On 7 September 2013 23:09, Tom Chance t...@acrewoods.net wrote: I've seen two new users accidentally delete residential landuse areas near me in the past fortnight: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/17695130 http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/17505646 Could this be a problem with the iD editor? Has anyone else noticed it? Tom -- http://tom.acrewoods.net http://twitter.com/tom_chance ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb -- http://tom.acrewoods.net http://twitter.com/tom_chance ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
[Talk-GB] iD and accidental landuse deletions
I've seen two new users accidentally delete residential landuse areas near me in the past fortnight: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/17695130 http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/17505646 Could this be a problem with the iD editor? Has anyone else noticed it? Tom -- http://tom.acrewoods.net http://twitter.com/tom_chance ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] iD and accidental landuse deletions
Tom Chance wrote: I've seen two new users accidentally delete residential landuse areas near me in the past fortnight: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/17695130 http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/17505646 Could this be a problem with the iD editor? Has anyone else noticed it? A known bug it iD is that it selects the relation if nothing else is found, so you can easily highlight something without actually seeing it. They would have to delete as well, but if they had something selected and hovered over the delete it is all to easy to remove something without knowing! This was a reason we objected to iD being made default - it's not ready yet :( -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk Rainbow Digital Media - http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
