Re: [talk-ph] gps traces from a delivery service company
As promised, one gps trace from the delivery service company: http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/maning/traces/485344 I edited some portions of Plutocrat's 1:50K topomap traced road. http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/2196308 On Tue, Jun 9, 2009 at 4:13 PM, maning sambaleemmanuel.samb...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, I just had a phone discussion from a delivey/forwarding company. They own several delivery trucks equipped with GPS. They are willing to donate GPS traces provided we give them GPS maps (which I do anyway). Focus areas includes Visayas. Do you think this is a worthwhile data source? Of course we don't expect drivers to do the editing. Any idea on how we should proceed? -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [talk-ph] gps traces from a delivery service company
On Tue, Jun 9, 2009 at 5:31 PM, Rally de Leonrall...@gmail.com wrote: We only need a few quality tracks. Generally, I am in favor of uploading the GPX traces in OSM even if you don't think your personal traces is not very much useful to others. Who knows in the future, some OSM hacker might: 1. use multiple traces to interpolate road width; http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3564/3613408786_f4fb5f791b_o.jpg that's edsa by the way from josm 2. analyze timestamps and point intervals, to interpolate traffic and average speed at certain times of the day. -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [talk-ph] gps traces from a delivery service company
Totally agree, the more tracks the better. On your number 2, do we have time stamps as well for the tracks that are submitted? Is this normally stored in the GPX trances? If we have loads of tracks, that's potentially very useful data! I think when I go back there and I buy a GPS, I might drive around with it constantly gathering data, and upload it. If 1000s of people did that, we'll have a massive resource for route planning. LTO and DPWH would probably find this very useful as well :) Ronny. maning sambale wrote: On Tue, Jun 9, 2009 at 5:31 PM, Rally de Leonrall...@gmail.com wrote: We only need a few quality tracks. Generally, I am in favor of uploading the GPX traces in OSM even if you don't think your personal traces is not very much useful to others. Who knows in the future, some OSM hacker might: 1. use multiple traces to interpolate road width; http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3564/3613408786_f4fb5f791b_o.jpg that's edsa by the way from josm 2. analyze timestamps and point intervals, to interpolate traffic and average speed at certain times of the day. ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [talk-ph] gps traces from a delivery service company
Ok then, this may be good source of the (actual) average speed of vehicles on a particular road (at specific times of day, eg. during rush hour, etc.). This will give a more realistic ETA on gpsr autorouting. As for averaging tracks, i think the roadguideph people (on motorbikes) have been doing this already (jan v. knows his math). But i still don't like the idea, since these bikers don't follow the speed limit and cross lanes too often by cutting corners when they hit the zigzags at high speed. They won't reflect the actual curves of the road. Well I guess, delivery vans (with gps) can't go that fast, since they are always monitored by their boss. :-) On Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 5:21 PM, maning sambale emmanuel.samb...@gmail.comwrote: On Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 5:07 PM, Ronny Ager-Wick - Develo Ltd.r...@develo.ltd.uk wrote: do we have time stamps as well for the tracks that are submitted? Yes, osm does not accept gpx without timestamps (but you can always randomize timestamps) -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [talk-ph] gps traces from a delivery service company
Caveats: most GPX traces uploaded to OSM *are not* suitable for determining traffic data. In most cases, the fact that one is surveying affects how one drives and so the GPX data records how one surveys, not how one actually drives. Also, unless there's a fixed folksonomy, you cannot determine whether a GPX track is from a motorcycle, a car, a van, or a bicycle. Most OSMers simply tag their GPXs by the location. In addition, some people anonymize their GPX data by randomizing the timestamps or even by shifting the time data by an offset amount. In conclusion, determining traffic data from GPX will only be successful if there is a concerted effort to collect pristine uncorrupted data. Unfortunately, OSM does not (yet) encourage this method of collection. I think this has been discussed at the main OSM mailing list a few times already. On Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 11:59 PM, maning sambale emmanuel.samb...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 2:27 PM, maning sambaleemmanuel.samb...@gmail.com wrote: analyze timestamps and point intervals, to interpolate traffic and average speed at certain times of the day. Just want to share this, my average cycle speed (km/h) when mapping: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3610/3613512951_c2bd08838b_o.png Imagine if we scale this metro manila gps traces collected by cars, we have an empirical data on the average traffic speed in the metro. -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph -- http://vaes9.codedgraphic.com ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [talk-ph] gps traces from a delivery service company
Yes, not yet, because we currently use trace for mapping purposes only. I'm just sharing some options on how we can use the trace data for some other purposes. Mining this information is a huge task but I believe it is possible. Still, I had fun looking at where, I was moving fast or slow during my bike rides :) On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 12:23 AM, Eugene Alvin Villarsea...@gmail.com wrote: Caveats: most GPX traces uploaded to OSM *are not* suitable for determining traffic data. In most cases, the fact that one is surveying affects how one drives and so the GPX data records how one surveys, not how one actually drives. Also, unless there's a fixed folksonomy, you cannot determine whether a GPX track is from a motorcycle, a car, a van, or a bicycle. Most OSMers simply tag their GPXs by the location. In addition, some people anonymize their GPX data by randomizing the timestamps or even by shifting the time data by an offset amount. In conclusion, determining traffic data from GPX will only be successful if there is a concerted effort to collect pristine uncorrupted data. Unfortunately, OSM does not (yet) encourage this method of collection. I think this has been discussed at the main OSM mailing list a few times already. On Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 11:59 PM, maning sambale emmanuel.samb...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 2:27 PM, maning sambaleemmanuel.samb...@gmail.com wrote: analyze timestamps and point intervals, to interpolate traffic and average speed at certain times of the day. Just want to share this, my average cycle speed (km/h) when mapping: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3610/3613512951_c2bd08838b_o.png Imagine if we scale this metro manila gps traces collected by cars, we have an empirical data on the average traffic speed in the metro. -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph -- http://vaes9.codedgraphic.com -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [talk-ph] gps traces from a delivery service company
Great. Actually, we need the data for averaging tracks (and if you ask me, I always prefer visual method for best-fit trace over existing satellite images, if they're available). otherwise, we just trace over the tracklogs which represent most likely the center-of-the-roads). Other mappers can name the roads later. I don't suggest uploading their entire gpx data to osm. We only need a few quality tracks. We can expect multiple tracklogs over the same roads on their delivery routes, and I believe we have lots of talents here who can make sense out of their chaotic random lines. Let's see how we go about the clean-up. :-) How big are the files? On Tue, Jun 9, 2009 at 4:13 PM, maning sambale emmanuel.samb...@gmail.comwrote: Hi, I just had a phone discussion from a delivey/forwarding company. They own several delivery trucks equipped with GPS. They are willing to donate GPS traces provided we give them GPS maps (which I do anyway). Focus areas includes Visayas. Do you think this is a worthwhile data source? Of course we don't expect drivers to do the editing. Any idea on how we should proceed? -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [talk-ph] gps traces from a delivery service company
On Tue, Jun 9, 2009 at 5:31 PM, Rally de Leonrall...@gmail.com wrote: How big are the files? He he. Excited, wala pa po. We have arranged further discussions. Honestly, I want to see the units first so that I can configure it to 1sec tracking :) Will keep the list posted and hope we can share the load in editing. -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [talk-ph] gps traces from a delivery service company
For data donations, do you have any written (by paper of email) consent from the donor? If we have one, why not add the data to OSM. murlwe -Original Message- From: maning sambale [emmanuel.samb...@gmail.com] Sent: 6/9/2009 4:14:23 PM To: talk-ph@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [talk-ph] gps traces from a delivery service company Hi, I just had a phone discussion from a delivey/forwarding company. They own several delivery trucks equipped with GPS. They are willing to donate GPS traces provided we give them GPS maps (which I do anyway). Focus areas includes Visayas. Do you think this is a worthwhile data source? Of course we don't expect drivers to do the editing. Any idea on how we should proceed? -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph . span id=m2wTlpfont face=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif size=2 style=font-size:13.5px___BRGet the Free email that has everyone talking at a href=http://www.mail2world.com target=newhttp://www.mail2world.com/abr font color=#99Unlimited Email Storage #150; POP3 #150; Calendar #150; SMS #150; Translator #150; Much More!/font/font/span___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [talk-ph] gps traces from a delivery service company
On Tue, Jun 9, 2009 at 6:21 PM, Marloue Pidor mur...@mail2engineer.comwrote: For data donations, do you have any written (by paper of email) consent from the donor? If we have one, why not add the data to OSM. murlwe Maybe it depends on the data. If gps tracks will come from delivery vans and they have (more or less) the same route everyday, we'll have lots of redundant gpx tracks on osm (which may be very hard to look at). The group needs to qualify them first before uploading. I'm just not sure if these donors are aware of security issues. It is best to keep their names (and nature of business) confidential. What if it's an armored van carrying money (or container van delivering high-value electronics)? we become automatic suspects if somebody rob/hijack the van. Si maning ang unang ito-torture ng NBI/CIDG, hehe ;-) But maybe, if it's the type like aluminum van that delivers appliances, then that will be great since they don't have fix route. -Original Message- From: maning sambale [emmanuel.samb...@gmail.com] Sent: 6/9/2009 4:14:23 PM To: talk-ph@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [talk-ph] gps traces from a delivery service company Hi, I just had a phone discussion from a delivey/forwarding company. They own several delivery trucks equipped with GPS. They are willing to donate GPS traces provided we give them GPS maps (which I do anyway). Focus areas includes Visayas. Do you think this is a worthwhile data source? Of course we don't expect drivers to do the editing. Any idea on how we should proceed? -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph . ___ Get the Free email that has everyone talking at http://www.mail2world.com Unlimited Email Storage POP3 Calendar SMS Translator Much More! ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
