Re: [Talk-us] Is there any value at all in tiger:MTFCC and tiger:FUNCSTAT tags? (Kevin Kenny)

[Kevin Kenny]

On Tue, Mar 26, 2019 at 4:02 PM OSM Volunteer stevea
 wrote:
> The usage of a tag (via taginfo) does give some indication of its usefulness 
> (e.g. school can't be that important a boundary tag if there are only nine or 
> ten of them in all of OSM), unless massive numbers of them were imported, as 
> from TIGER and these MTFCC and FUNCSTAT crufty stuff.  But when we can hardly 
> figure them out (although Kenny did a great job explaining what they MIGHT 
> mean) AND they are from a "hoary old import" (as TIGER is often called), 
> there really is good argument to remove them.  I'd vote to do so in a 
> heartbeat (if were collecting votes, and we don't appear to be doing so).  
> Hence, my logic-outline instead.  If they are essentially useless — and many 
> seem to agree they are — I believe it is prudent to remove them.

I don't disagree. Ordinarily, though, I don't advocate removing tags
or objects unless they are clearly wrong, and not just useless - hence
my agreement that the (historic) GNIS points are actively harmful.

Still, given the amount of trouble that I had figuring out FUNCSTAT
from the documentation, it might cross over into 'harmful' since my
guess is that every reasonable interpretation of that confusing schema
is misleading.

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Re: [Talk-us] Is there any value at all in tiger:MTFCC and tiger:FUNCSTAT tags? (Kevin Kenny)

[OSM Volunteer stevea]

FWIW, I believe these TIGER tags have exceedingly low value in OSM:  
approaching or at zero.  I say this because of a large/wide/far-reaching 
consensus we have reached with "similar" values in the USA on 
boundary=admin_level tags, where such entities were not only found to not be 
admin_levels (e.g. school districts and special districts are not those), but 
also that a taginfo query found that out of millions of boundary tag entries, 
fewer than a dozen of them were boundary=school.  The myriad flavors of special 
districts are similar:  few entries and low value to OSM.

The usage of a tag (via taginfo) does give some indication of its usefulness 
(e.g. school can't be that important a boundary tag if there are only nine or 
ten of them in all of OSM), unless massive numbers of them were imported, as 
from TIGER and these MTFCC and FUNCSTAT crufty stuff.  But when we can hardly 
figure them out (although Kenny did a great job explaining what they MIGHT 
mean) AND they are from a "hoary old import" (as TIGER is often called), there 
really is good argument to remove them.  I'd vote to do so in a heartbeat (if 
were collecting votes, and we don't appear to be doing so).  Hence, my 
logic-outline instead.  If they are essentially useless — and many seem to 
agree they are — I believe it is prudent to remove them.

SteveA
California

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Re: [Talk-us] Is there any value at all in tiger:MTFCC and tiger:FUNCSTAT tags?

[Kevin Kenny]

On Mon, Mar 25, 2019 at 11:58 AM Mateusz Konieczny
 wrote:
> Any info about meaning or use of 
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:tiger:FUNCSTAT
> would be useful.

https://www.census.gov/geo/reference/funcstat.html

What those phrases mean is not immediately clear.
https://www.census.gov/geo/reference/gtc/gtc_area_attr.html is another
treatement of functional status and indicates: "Functional status
describes whether a geographic entity is a functioning governmental
unit, has an inactive government, is an administrative area without a
functioning government, or is a statistical area identified and
defined solely for tabulation and presentation of statistical data." -
the observation that A and S predominate is in keeping with the
definition that 'A' is a functioning governmental unit, and 'S' is a
statistical entry only.  I'm not sure what areas would have an
'inactive' government or be 'nonfunctioning' legal entities, and I
suspect that they're weird.

'Special-purpose functions' are so that TIGER can represent boundaries
such as school, library, water, sewer, sanitation, fire protection,
police, ... districts - whose boundaries may not match other
administrative hierarchies.  'Partially consolidated' refers to
situations like the boroughs of New York City, which have largely
ceded the executive and legislative functions of counties to the city,
but retain an independent judiciary.

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Re: [Talk-us] Is there any value at all in tiger:MTFCC and tiger:FUNCSTAT tags?

[Evin Fairchild]

Weird. I've never seem any of these TIGER tags in Washington state.

-Evin

On Mon, Mar 25, 2019, 8:58 AM Mateusz Konieczny 
wrote:

>
>
>
> Mar 25, 2019, 4:19 PM by matkoni...@tutanota.com:
>
> I encountered this tags some time ago and seem to be popular, imported,
> useless
> and without clear meaning.
>
> Therefore I think it would be a good idea to add them to discardable tags
> (tags not displayed
> by editors and silently removed if mapper edited object with it).
>
> I created documentation pages for them at
>
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:tiger:MTFCC
> and
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:tiger:FUNCSTAT
>
> Is anyone aware about meaning or use of this tags or supports their
> continued
> presence?
>
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:tiger:MTFCC is now documented
>
> Any info about meaning or use of
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:tiger:FUNCSTAT
> would be useful.
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[Talk-us] Is there any value at all in tiger:MTFCC and tiger:FUNCSTAT tags?

[Mateusz Konieczny]

I encountered this tags some time ago and seem to be popular, imported, useless
and without clear meaning.

Therefore I think it would be a good idea to add them to discardable tags (tags 
not displayed
by editors and silently removed if mapper edited object with it).

I created documentation pages for them at

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:tiger:MTFCC 

and
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:tiger:FUNCSTAT 


Is anyone aware about meaning or use of this tags or supports their continued
presence?
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