[Techno-Chat]: Reading ePub books

[Dane Trethowan]

Hi!

I'm new to this format.

Can anyone recommend good Apps I could use to read ePub books?

I assume Voicedream reader on IOS will work so what about Windows PC, 
Mac and Android?


Thanks


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Re: [Techno-Chat]: FS Podcast

[Dane Trethowan]

Let's put this into further context.

Its convention time in the US so yep, the perfect time to take advantage 
of all these offers - and wistfully think of the United states as 
paradise  -.




On 29/06/2017 11:23 PM, Gordon Smith wrote:

Good Friday

I’ve just spent a happy hour listening to the FS podcast for 29 June. That was 
the best podcast I’ve ever heard from them. Jonathan did detailed demos on the 
ElBraille, and announced some quite startling price reductions on all of their 
software titles, plus reductions on the Pearl camera and so on.

JAWS licenses are, at last, within the reach of most people. For specifics 
visit their website.

=

My compliments and kindest regards
Gordon Smith:


Accessibility & Information Technology Support Specialist..

   Contact:

• UK Geographic – +44(0) 1642 688095
• UKFree Phone – 0800 8620538
• UK Mobile – +44 (0) 7907 823971

• Australia Geographic – +61 38 82059300
• US Geographic – +1 646 9151493Mobile/S







--

**
"Live each day as if you were goiing to die tomorrow, learn each day as if you were 
going to live forever"

--

This post, like all posts to the Techno Chat E-Mail group has been scanned by 
our server-side antivirus/malware solution. This should not, however, be viewed 
as a substitution for your own security strategy. We assume no culpability 
whatever, implicit or otherwise, for any compromise to your systems as a result 
of opening any post to this group. Suffice it to say that we remain vigilant 
within the boundaries of reason. We strongly urge you to do likewise! You have 
been warned!!!

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[Techno-Chat]: FS Podcast

[Gordon Smith]

Good Friday

I’ve just spent a happy hour listening to the FS podcast for 29 June. That was 
the best podcast I’ve ever heard from them. Jonathan did detailed demos on the 
ElBraille, and announced some quite startling price reductions on all of their 
software titles, plus reductions on the Pearl camera and so on.

JAWS licenses are, at last, within the reach of most people. For specifics 
visit their website.

=

My compliments and kindest regards
Gordon Smith:


Accessibility & Information Technology Support Specialist..

  Contact:

• UK Geographic – +44(0) 1642 688095
• UKFree Phone – 0800 8620538
• UK Mobile – +44 (0) 7907 823971

• Australia Geographic – +61 38 82059300
• US Geographic – +1 646 9151493Mobile/S







smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature

Re: [Techno-Chat]: The Merrits Of Braille Adaptive Devices

[Dane Trethowan]

JaWS undoubtedly has the best support for Braille displays out there and Apple 
sits somewhere in-between the best and the worst.
I take your points regarding notes at meetings and I adopt similar methods to 
what you’ve discussed here.
Having a Braille keyboard on a Braille Display is an added bonus, one can - as 
I do - completely disable speech on my Sony xPeria phone and just do my thing - 
taking notes or whatever - completely from the Focus 40 so the phone can be 
left in my pocket or bag.
I’ve heard of some people going further, they use a headset as well as their 
Braille Display for that extra feedback that sound or speech might give them.
I would find this irritating myself when I’m trying to listen to others around 
me and take in crucial points however its each to their own and I take my hat 
off to those who can multi task with their hearing like that.

> On 29 Jun 2017, at 5:19 pm, Gordon Smith  wrote:
> 
> I have re-routed this to the list because I think others may wish to 
> contribute to the discussion,
> 
> Personally speaking, I would never be without my displays. At first out of 
> necessity, then out of choice, I started working without speech for the most 
> part, just relying on Braille. And Braille is where NVDA is quite a bit 
> weaker than JAWS, This is especially true when using a Focus display. Rapid 
> Reading mode can be extraordinarily useful. But where I find Braille without 
> speech most useful is in a meeting or conference situation where the speech 
> would be both intrusive to others and debilitating to me. I like to be able 
> to work privately in meetings as I listen to what is being said by fellow 
> attendees. Some of the discussions can be quite involved, and note taking is 
> essential for me. I have to concentrate really hard because of my dual 
> sensory impairments. And speech just makes things doubly difficult.
> 
> So yes, Braille is, for me at least, a vital, absolutely vital tool. I use it 
> every single day of my life, and have used it professionally to both educate 
> and to enable me to perform my then job functions.
> 
> Does anybody know what became of the Orbit reader project? I haven’t seen any 
> mention of that since late 2015 so did they fail to produce? If so, what a 
> waste of all that money, and how disappointing will that be to the thousands 
> of blind and visually impaired users who, like most people, cannot possibly 
> jump on to the Braille display ladder for the simple reason that conventional 
> devices are way beyond their financial limits.
> 
> 
> =
> 
> My compliments and kindest regards
> Gordon Smith:
> 
> 
> Accessibility & Information Technology Support Specialist..
> 
>  Contact:
> 
> • UK Geographic – +44(0) 1642 688095
> • UK Free Phone – 0800 8620538
> • UK Mobile – +44 (0) 7907 823971
> 
> • Australia Geographic – +61 38 82059300
> • US Geographic – +1 646 9151493Mobile/S
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On 29 Jun 2017, at 07:47, Dane Trethowan  wrote:
>> 
>> A braille display is a bit of a hard sell when you’re talking to someone 
>> with speech who has never experienced the extra input you get when using a 
>> Braille Display.
>> Fortunately I had experience with a Display before this, I used to have an 
>> Alva ABT80, a wonderful unit but in the end technology surpassed the display 
>> so I was faced with a stark choice, either buy a new display or don’t use 
>> one at all, reading Braille means a lot to me for all sorts of reasons but 
>> the main is that the user has a better idea of what the computer or device 
>> is doing than what one would when using speech, so try telling that to 
>> someone who has not used a Display before and see how you go, why should 
>> that person invest another word of notes in something else when speech does 
>> just fine.
>> Regarding JAWS and this does surprise me somewhat.
>> I’m now hearing the question quite often, “Why should I bother laying out 
>> for JAWS when NVDA is freely available?”, a question I thought I’d never 
>> hear asked and - the benefits of JAWS aside - its a fare question.
>> 
>>> On 29 Jun 2017, at 1:52 pm, Gordon Smith  wrote:
>>> 
>>> That’s very true. It happens here every year.
>>> 
>>> When I first bought JAWS 15, it cost me £645 for the Pro license. Now, that 
>>> same license costs £845 and is set to rise again later this year. The 
>>> falling rate of the Pound against the US dollar is a contributory factor. 
>>> But as I pointed out to our dealership, much to their displeasure, when the 
>>> Pound rises in value again, they conveniently forget to reduce their 
>>> prices. Thus, their profit margin goes up exponentially. I got very short 
>>> shrift when I made that comment to them a couple of years ago. 
>>> Nevertheless, it is true.
>>> 
>>> =
>>> 
>>> My 

RE: [Techno-Chat]: The Merits Of Braille Adaptive Devices

[Roger Firman]

Dear Gordon,

Regarding your query about the Orbit Reader 20 project, it is still active and 
it was hoped that the device would by now be available. I know this is not the 
case but believe it is at some stage of production.

As I understand it, the price for the UK has not yet been finalised, or if it 
has, the information is not publicly available. It is likely to be higher than 
originally stated but beyond that I do not know.

Best wishes,

Roger Firman.

-Original Message-
From: Gordon Smith [mailto:gor...@mac-access.net] 
Sent: 29 June 2017 08:19
To: Techno-Chat ... Technology Enthusiasm! 
Subject: [Techno-Chat]: The Merits Of Braille Adaptive Devices

I have re-routed this to the list because I think others may wish to contribute 
to the discussion,

Personally speaking, I would never be without my displays. At first out of 
necessity, then out of choice, I started working without speech for the most 
part, just relying on Braille. And Braille is where NVDA is quite a bit weaker 
than JAWS, This is especially true when using a Focus display. Rapid Reading 
mode can be extraordinarily useful. But where I find Braille without speech 
most useful is in a meeting or conference situation where the speech would be 
both intrusive to others and debilitating to me. I like to be able to work 
privately in meetings as I listen to what is being said by fellow attendees. 
Some of the discussions can be quite involved, and note taking is essential for 
me. I have to concentrate really hard because of my dual sensory impairments. 
And speech just makes things doubly difficult.

So yes, Braille is, for me at least, a vital, absolutely vital tool. I use it 
every single day of my life, and have used it professionally to both educate 
and to enable me to perform my then job functions.

Does anybody know what became of the Orbit reader project? I haven’t seen any 
mention of that since late 2015 so did they fail to produce? If so, what a 
waste of all that money, and how disappointing will that be to the thousands of 
blind and visually impaired users who, like most people, cannot possibly jump 
on to the Braille display ladder for the simple reason that conventional 
devices are way beyond their financial limits.


=

My compliments and kindest regards
Gordon Smith:


Accessibility & Information Technology Support Specialist..

  Contact:

• UK Geographic – +44(0) 1642 688095
• UK Free Phone – 0800 8620538
• UK Mobile – +44 (0) 7907 823971

• Australia Geographic – +61 38 82059300
• US Geographic – +1 646 9151493Mobile/S





> On 29 Jun 2017, at 07:47, Dane Trethowan  wrote:
> 
> A braille display is a bit of a hard sell when you’re talking to someone with 
> speech who has never experienced the extra input you get when using a Braille 
> Display.
> Fortunately I had experience with a Display before this, I used to have an 
> Alva ABT80, a wonderful unit but in the end technology surpassed the display 
> so I was faced with a stark choice, either buy a new display or don’t use one 
> at all, reading Braille means a lot to me for all sorts of reasons but the 
> main is that the user has a better idea of what the computer or device is 
> doing than what one would when using speech, so try telling that to someone 
> who has not used a Display before and see how you go, why should that person 
> invest another word of notes in something else when speech does just fine.
> Regarding JAWS and this does surprise me somewhat.
> I’m now hearing the question quite often, “Why should I bother laying out for 
> JAWS when NVDA is freely available?”, a question I thought I’d never hear 
> asked and - the benefits of JAWS aside - its a fare question.
> 
>> On 29 Jun 2017, at 1:52 pm, Gordon Smith  wrote:
>> 
>> That’s very true. It happens here every year.
>> 
>> When I first bought JAWS 15, it cost me £645 for the Pro license. Now, that 
>> same license costs £845 and is set to rise again later this year. The 
>> falling rate of the Pound against the US dollar is a contributory factor. 
>> But as I pointed out to our dealership, much to their displeasure, when the 
>> Pound rises in value again, they conveniently forget to reduce their prices. 
>> Thus, their profit margin goes up exponentially. I got very short shrift 
>> when I made that comment to them a couple of years ago. Nevertheless, it is 
>> true.
>> 
>> =
>> 
>> My compliments and kindest regards
>> Gordon Smith:
>> 
>> 
>> Accessibility & Information Technology Support Specialist..
>> 
>> Contact:
>> 
>> • UK Geographic – +44(0) 1642 688095
>> • UKFree Phone – 0800 8620538
>> • UK Mobile – +44 (0) 7907 823971
>> 
>> • Australia Geographic – +61 38 82059300
>> • US Geographic – +1 646 9151493Mobile/S
>> 
>> 

[Techno-Chat]: The Merrits Of Braille Adaptive Devices

[Gordon Smith]

I have re-routed this to the list because I think others may wish to contribute 
to the discussion,

Personally speaking, I would never be without my displays. At first out of 
necessity, then out of choice, I started working without speech for the most 
part, just relying on Braille. And Braille is where NVDA is quite a bit weaker 
than JAWS, This is especially true when using a Focus display. Rapid Reading 
mode can be extraordinarily useful. But where I find Braille without speech 
most useful is in a meeting or conference situation where the speech would be 
both intrusive to others and debilitating to me. I like to be able to work 
privately in meetings as I listen to what is being said by fellow attendees. 
Some of the discussions can be quite involved, and note taking is essential for 
me. I have to concentrate really hard because of my dual sensory impairments. 
And speech just makes things doubly difficult.

So yes, Braille is, for me at least, a vital, absolutely vital tool. I use it 
every single day of my life, and have used it professionally to both educate 
and to enable me to perform my then job functions.

Does anybody know what became of the Orbit reader project? I haven’t seen any 
mention of that since late 2015 so did they fail to produce? If so, what a 
waste of all that money, and how disappointing will that be to the thousands of 
blind and visually impaired users who, like most people, cannot possibly jump 
on to the Braille display ladder for the simple reason that conventional 
devices are way beyond their financial limits.


=

My compliments and kindest regards
Gordon Smith:


Accessibility & Information Technology Support Specialist..

  Contact:

• UK Geographic – +44(0) 1642 688095
• UK Free Phone – 0800 8620538
• UK Mobile – +44 (0) 7907 823971

• Australia Geographic – +61 38 82059300
• US Geographic – +1 646 9151493Mobile/S





> On 29 Jun 2017, at 07:47, Dane Trethowan  wrote:
> 
> A braille display is a bit of a hard sell when you’re talking to someone with 
> speech who has never experienced the extra input you get when using a Braille 
> Display.
> Fortunately I had experience with a Display before this, I used to have an 
> Alva ABT80, a wonderful unit but in the end technology surpassed the display 
> so I was faced with a stark choice, either buy a new display or don’t use one 
> at all, reading Braille means a lot to me for all sorts of reasons but the 
> main is that the user has a better idea of what the computer or device is 
> doing than what one would when using speech, so try telling that to someone 
> who has not used a Display before and see how you go, why should that person 
> invest another word of notes in something else when speech does just fine.
> Regarding JAWS and this does surprise me somewhat.
> I’m now hearing the question quite often, “Why should I bother laying out for 
> JAWS when NVDA is freely available?”, a question I thought I’d never hear 
> asked and - the benefits of JAWS aside - its a fare question.
> 
>> On 29 Jun 2017, at 1:52 pm, Gordon Smith  wrote:
>> 
>> That’s very true. It happens here every year.
>> 
>> When I first bought JAWS 15, it cost me £645 for the Pro license. Now, that 
>> same license costs £845 and is set to rise again later this year. The 
>> falling rate of the Pound against the US dollar is a contributory factor. 
>> But as I pointed out to our dealership, much to their displeasure, when the 
>> Pound rises in value again, they conveniently forget to reduce their prices. 
>> Thus, their profit margin goes up exponentially. I got very short shrift 
>> when I made that comment to them a couple of years ago. Nevertheless, it is 
>> true.
>> 
>> =
>> 
>> My compliments and kindest regards
>> Gordon Smith:
>> 
>> 
>> Accessibility & Information Technology Support Specialist..
>> 
>> Contact:
>> 
>> • UK Geographic – +44(0) 1642 688095
>> • UKFree Phone – 0800 8620538
>> • UK Mobile – +44 (0) 7907 823971
>> 
>> • Australia Geographic – +61 38 82059300
>> • US Geographic – +1 646 9151493Mobile/S
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 29 Jun 2017, at 04:10, Dane Trethowan  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Of course the price of Adaptive Technology is at the mercy of the value of 
>>> our fluctuating currency’s to a big degree.
>>> To give you an example, I bought my Focus 40 Braille display in September 
>>> 2015 and was totally shocked when I discovered the display had increased in 
>>> price by over 20% a year later mainly due to the falling value of the 
>>> Australian dollar against the US dollar, 20% may not sound all that much 
>>> but - when we’re talking over a couple of grand - its quite a lot of money 
>>> and thus very difficult to save for, I felt a Braille display was one of 
>>> 

RE: [Techno-Chat]: Note Takers and Laptops

[Debbie Yuille]

Yes, the store is the one that I go to.

Debbie

-Original Message-
From: Dane Trethowan [mailto:grtd...@internode.on.net] 
Sent: Thursday, 29 June 2017 4:49 PM
To: Techno-Chat ... Technology Enthusiasm! 
Subject: Re: [Techno-Chat]: Note Takers and Laptops

Yep thanks, that would be the ideal thing to do and I may just have to make 
arrangements to do that.
I assume the closest Apple Store to you is the same one I’d be going to, the 
one at Highpoint? Those who are able to give me a hand would rather go walk on 
the moon than take a trip down to Highpoint, parking’s a real problem but I’m 
sure I’ll work out something and you’re right, going to the Apple Store and 
trying the machine is the common sense move.

> On 29 Jun 2017, at 1:21 pm, Debbie Yuille  wrote:
> 
> Hi Dane
> 
> If you can see if you are able to get to the apple store in Highpoint and try 
> one out.
> 
> Debbie
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Dane Trethowan [mailto:grtd...@internode.on.net]
> Sent: Thursday, 29 June 2017 4:58 AM
> To: Techno-Chat ... Technology Enthusiasm! 
> 
> Subject: Re: [Techno-Chat]: Note Takers and Laptops
> 
> Thanks very much for the information.
> There’s plenty of time between now and then - won’t be making a move to a new 
> Notebook etc until December -, you’ve given me both plenty to research and 
> plenty to think about.
> 
>> On 29 Jun 2017, at 4:20 am, David Griffith  wrote:
>> 
>> I think people use a variety of techniques.
>> I have not got one of these machines but as I understand it  from 
>> discussions on other lists you can use the FN key with the Number row on the 
>> keyboard to simulate  a physical function key press, also you can apparently 
>> navigate to the appropriate area of the Touch Bar by feeling the number row 
>> and then lifting your finger from the number row key to the Touch Bar above.
>> 
>> But yes you can get spoken feedback from the Touch Bar.
>> 
>> If you are to get a machine I would
>> 1. Read a quite good review of the pros and cons of using the touch Bar on 
>> Apple Vis.
>> 2. Listen to David Woodbridge's Podcast on using the Touch Bar. From memory 
>> though he does not demonstrate the Function key plus Number row workaround 
>> which I hope stil exists.
>> 
>> For me I think there are some unresolved issues.
>> 1. Using the Touch Bar with Windows in either VMWare  Fusion or Boot Camp is 
>> apparently a non- starter.
>> I think there were issues in using Recovery Console - for example using VO 
>> F2 F2 to bring up window chooser.
>> The recommended workaround for Voiceover users is to have a standard USB  
>> keyboard available for use with Recovery Console.
>> 
>> All this is second hand and not from personal experience so the situation 
>> may have changed/improved since I observed these reported issues.
>> 
>> 
>> David Griffith.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Dane Trethowan [mailto:grtd...@internode.on.net]
>> Sent: 28 June 2017 16:29
>> To: techno-chat@techno-chat.net
>> Subject: [Techno-Chat]: Note Takers and Laptops
>> 
>> On the subject of Note Takers and Laptops, My next computer - if all goes 
>> well at the end of the year - will be a MacBook.
>> I hear the MacBook has done away with the row of function keys replacing 
>> them with a touch strip so how does this go with Voiceover.
>> I mean if you want to press a function key do you slide your finger along 
>> the strip till you hear the key you want and then double-tap? Does the bar 
>> offer any other gestures or customisations?
>> 
>>> On 29 Jun 2017, at 1:16 am, Gordon Smith  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I can see advantages and disadvantages to both approaches. So I guess it’s 
>>> more or less horses for courses.
>>> 
>>> Was a time in the not so very long ago that Would have said no to any 
>>> Braille note taker at all. But now, having used them extensively for quite 
>>> a long time, I’ve changed my views. Certainly see the advantage to using 
>>> main stream hardware right down the line. But I have experienced, (and that 
>>> is the crux of the matter)both approaches. As I will readily admit, I was 
>>> very much in line with the BrailleBack approach and that was an end to it. 
>>> But now, well, as I said, speaking from experience, not just hypothesis, I 
>>> see some definite merit to using accessible devices. After all, these new 
>>> note takers such as the Touch and the Polaris, like them or loathe them, 
>>> can be said to be main stream technologies in themselves. Why do I say 
>>> this? Simple, that’s what they are! They are both Google approved, they 
>>> both run Android as their base operating systems. In the case of the 
>>> Polaris, just as with the Touch, I believe you can turn off the accessible 
>>> operating system by pressing the home button three times quickly. That is a 
>>> toggle, so you can enable or disable it at 

Re: [Techno-Chat]: Note Takers and Laptops

[Dane Trethowan]

Yep thanks, that would be the ideal thing to do and I may just have to make 
arrangements to do that.
I assume the closest Apple Store to you is the same one I’d be going to, the 
one at Highpoint? Those who are able to give me a hand would rather go walk on 
the moon than take a trip down to Highpoint, parking’s a real problem but I’m 
sure I’ll work out something and you’re right, going to the Apple Store and 
trying the machine is the common sense move.

> On 29 Jun 2017, at 1:21 pm, Debbie Yuille  wrote:
> 
> Hi Dane
> 
> If you can see if you are able to get to the apple store in Highpoint and try 
> one out.
> 
> Debbie
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Dane Trethowan [mailto:grtd...@internode.on.net] 
> Sent: Thursday, 29 June 2017 4:58 AM
> To: Techno-Chat ... Technology Enthusiasm! 
> Subject: Re: [Techno-Chat]: Note Takers and Laptops
> 
> Thanks very much for the information.
> There’s plenty of time between now and then - won’t be making a move to a new 
> Notebook etc until December -, you’ve given me both plenty to research and 
> plenty to think about.
> 
>> On 29 Jun 2017, at 4:20 am, David Griffith  wrote:
>> 
>> I think people use a variety of techniques.
>> I have not got one of these machines but as I understand it  from 
>> discussions on other lists you can use the FN key with the Number row on the 
>> keyboard to simulate  a physical function key press, also you can apparently 
>> navigate to the appropriate area of the Touch Bar by feeling the number row 
>> and then lifting your finger from the number row key to the Touch Bar above.
>> 
>> But yes you can get spoken feedback from the Touch Bar.
>> 
>> If you are to get a machine I would
>> 1. Read a quite good review of the pros and cons of using the touch Bar on 
>> Apple Vis.
>> 2. Listen to David Woodbridge's Podcast on using the Touch Bar. From memory 
>> though he does not demonstrate the Function key plus Number row workaround 
>> which I hope stil exists.
>> 
>> For me I think there are some unresolved issues.
>> 1. Using the Touch Bar with Windows in either VMWare  Fusion or Boot Camp is 
>> apparently a non- starter.
>> I think there were issues in using Recovery Console - for example using VO 
>> F2 F2 to bring up window chooser.
>> The recommended workaround for Voiceover users is to have a standard USB  
>> keyboard available for use with Recovery Console.
>> 
>> All this is second hand and not from personal experience so the situation 
>> may have changed/improved since I observed these reported issues.
>> 
>> 
>> David Griffith.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Dane Trethowan [mailto:grtd...@internode.on.net]
>> Sent: 28 June 2017 16:29
>> To: techno-chat@techno-chat.net
>> Subject: [Techno-Chat]: Note Takers and Laptops
>> 
>> On the subject of Note Takers and Laptops, My next computer - if all goes 
>> well at the end of the year - will be a MacBook.
>> I hear the MacBook has done away with the row of function keys replacing 
>> them with a touch strip so how does this go with Voiceover.
>> I mean if you want to press a function key do you slide your finger along 
>> the strip till you hear the key you want and then double-tap? Does the bar 
>> offer any other gestures or customisations?
>> 
>>> On 29 Jun 2017, at 1:16 am, Gordon Smith  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I can see advantages and disadvantages to both approaches. So I guess it’s 
>>> more or less horses for courses.
>>> 
>>> Was a time in the not so very long ago that Would have said no to any 
>>> Braille note taker at all. But now, having used them extensively for quite 
>>> a long time, I’ve changed my views. Certainly see the advantage to using 
>>> main stream hardware right down the line. But I have experienced, (and that 
>>> is the crux of the matter)both approaches. As I will readily admit, I was 
>>> very much in line with the BrailleBack approach and that was an end to it. 
>>> But now, well, as I said, speaking from experience, not just hypothesis, I 
>>> see some definite merit to using accessible devices. After all, these new 
>>> note takers such as the Touch and the Polaris, like them or loathe them, 
>>> can be said to be main stream technologies in themselves. Why do I say 
>>> this? Simple, that’s what they are! They are both Google approved, they 
>>> both run Android as their base operating systems. In the case of the 
>>> Polaris, just as with the Touch, I believe you can turn off the accessible 
>>> operating system by pressing the home button three times quickly. That is a 
>>> toggle, so you can enable or disable it at will. Once disabled, the self 
>>> same device will run natively in Android mode, and you can install TalkBack 
>>> and BrailleBack for use in this mode. You just need to remember not to have 
>>> them enabled at start-up or you’ll hit real issues.
>>> 
>>> Then again, along comes the ElBraille. A