Re: shameful censoring of mono opposition
On Tue, Jun 9, 2009 at 12:14 PM, Christopher Olahchristopherolah...@gmail.com wrote: It appears to me that the most important point has been forgotten: the accusations of censorship. This, if true, is very alarming... We can bicker over Mono all we like, but if people are being censored, like the OP suggests, something is _very_ wrong. this is what happens when you promote MONO boosters to positions of power, they will poison the distro and ban the people who don't mindlessly follow them like sheep to MONO boosters, MONO is a religion: http://nocturn.vsbnet.be/node/142 luckily only stupid people who can't think for themselves fawn over MONO and follow it like a religion. however, this is a threat to all of us because they convince many people to use the trojan horse that is MONO and as you can see on the ubuntuforums they have fooled many many people into thinking MONO is ok but its not obviously some of the forum moderators are novell employees (or people who drink they're koolaid) who are censoring respectable people like neighborlee when they speak of the dangers of MONO this behavior is unacceptable and they need to be kicked out for their bias -- Only by destroying MONO can Linux be saved. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: shameful censoring of mono opposition
On Tue, Jun 9, 2009 at 12:47 PM, David Schlesingerdavid.schlesin...@access-company.com wrote: it would be better if it was removed from the repos too, but ubuntu would get back some of its respect if it at least removed MONO from the default install like Fedora is doing. A few questions: a) Respect from whom, exactly? You? Paige? the Linux community b) Why does this matter? Is someone running a contest for most respected Linux distribution? Are there prizes? no but there are losers like microvell (and ubuntu if it doesn't change) c) Why don't you just go ahead, use Fedora and let Ubuntu proceed to its (in your view) inevitable doom? Wouldn't that free up a lot of your time for more useful things than inciting conversations a which can't really lead to any productive result on mailing lists about distributions you don't respect? I am trying to help A few related observations: a) Respect, if it matters at all, only matter coming from those who are, themselves, worthy of respect. Roy Schestowitz and Richard Stallman say that MONO is poisonware. are they not respectable? b) I'd suggest that if there's any meaningful dimension to respect, it might be measured by the number of people who take the time to actually use a given distro. If that's the case, Ubuntu seems to be more respected than Fedora. ego will get you nowhere c) I can point to plenty of things which Miguel and others have done which seem to me to be deeply worthy of respect from my view, starting with GNOME only because he couldn't get hired by M$ like he wanted and then he goes and creates GNOME while badmouthing KDE and splitting the Linux community. with friends like him, who needs enemies? and working on from there. I can't think of any similarly significant contributions from Mark Fink or from Paige Thompson. Why would I respect your view more than Miguel's? Respect is earned around these parts by doing heavy lifting, not by posting messages to mailing lists. not all of us can be programmers, so we contribute in other ways like advocating. people like me and Roy Schestowitz and others at BN are very important for making people aware of the truth so that M$ can't destroy Linux. I've personally advocated Linux to Fortune 500 companies. what have /you/ done? -- Only by destroying MONO can Linux be saved. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: shameful censoring of mono opposition
On Tue, Jun 9, 2009 at 7:58 PM, David Schlesingerdavid.schlesin...@access-company.com wrote: Mark Fink continues to scribble: luckily only stupid people who can't think for themselves fawn over MONO...some of the forum moderators are novell employees (or people who drink they're koolaid)... Wasn't it you who was complaining not long ago about personal attacks...? I'll refrain from pointing out the general illiteracy of your message, but it's doubtless apparent to anyone for whom English isn't a second language as well as many for whom it is. Maybe you should go start an I HATE MONO!!! mailing list, Mark, where you can dispense your bile without fear of having anyone point out that you're doing nothing to add light here, only heat. no wonder you got reported to your boss, david. you are not very resptful of your users and customers. -- Only by destroying MONO can Linux be saved. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: shameful censoring of mono opposition
On Tue, Jun 9, 2009 at 1:50 PM, Christopher Olahchristopherolah...@gmail.com wrote: Ubuntu is a centralised entity. No external person can control e.g. why we have a custom search in the home page of firefox by default. People who can't tell the difference will keep using a different google, but there is not even way to get some discussion around this (I tried in the past). So if us really feel that this is risky (like it's risky for all centralised organisations, including e.g. google and it's services) then the only alternative is to develop a decentralised linux distribution. The fact that censorship is an intrinsic risk to any centralized Linux distro doesn't make it any more appropriate. If censorship is occurring, it needs to stop. yes it does and the people behind the censorship need to be exposed for what they really are -- Only by destroying MONO can Linux be saved. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: shameful censoring of mono opposition
On Tue, Jun 9, 2009 at 9:42 PM, Mackenzie Morganmaco...@gmail.com wrote: On Tuesday 09 June 2009 7:43:37 pm Mark Fink wrote: obviously some of the forum moderators are novell employees (or people who drink they're koolaid) who are censoring respectable people like neighborlee when they speak of the dangers of MONO We're mostly students, I think. Computer science, engineering, law, and an ex-mod is a botany student. There's also a guy that works on Xorg for Canonical. I'm both a student and (for my job) working on some open source software that's as old as the GNU project itself. perhaps neighborlee or roy schestowitz should be an ubuntu forum moderator to bring fairness to the forums? -- Only by destroying MONO can Linux be saved. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: shameful censoring of mono opposition
as benfrank said yesterday on boycottnovell: The solution seems obvious and easy: don’t make Mono or Mono apps part of the default install. Leave them in the repos for the users who want them. Easy as falling over. Not wanting to even discuss such a simple solution makes it credible that Ubuntu is being corrupted by Mono fans. IMono is controversial, and who needs the bloated Mono runtime just to run a few marginal apps? The importance of Mono to Ubuntu is greatly overblown by a small but very determined minority. MONO /is/ controversial, so why are you guys even shipping it? it's only because MONO people have poisoned your minds and infiltrated ubuntu to get power to enforce their will. On Sun, Jun 7, 2009 at 10:58 PM, Mackenzie Morganmaco...@gmail.com wrote: On Sunday 07 June 2009 7:48:45 pm Mark Fink wrote: this is what the MONO developers want you to believe, but no one really wants MONO. users still using MONO only do so because they've been tricked by miquel co who worship m$ and will do anything to help them destroy linux. Hi :) Mono-based application user here. Guess why I use Mono-based apps? It's not the reason you gave. It's because there happen to exist some very good Mono-based applications. In the case of Tomboy v. Gnote...well, my experience dealing with the developers of the two applications along with the existence of a LaTeX plugin for the Mono one keeps me using Tomboy. F-Spot? Well, the only thing close is iPhoto, and last I tried iPhoto, F-Spot was more featureful. Now, I'm all for the effort to write better applications in other languages-- really, better applications in any language. Diversity is good! Competition is good! Unfortunately, I don't really see anyone stepping up to the plate with a photo manager that can compete with F-Spot. And Gnote doesn't really compete with Tomboy--emulation (that misses out on many of the features) isn't exactly innovation. BasKet and Zim though, I've heard they're very good. BasKet is for KDE though, and Zim, while very featureful, is also harder to navigate and asks some rather daunting questions in its Preferences (for example, full path to preferred text editor)--a fine tool for hackers, but not something I'd tell my brother to use for taking notes in class. Simply: what works well? At the moment, there are a handful of Mono applications which are the Best of Breed in their respective categories. If you've got some applications up your sleeve that can seriously compete with-- and beat!--any of the applications in the default Ubuntu install on technical grounds such as number and quality of useful features and the software's usability, I'd like to see them. -- Mackenzie Morgan http://ubuntulinuxtipstricks.blogspot.com apt-get moo -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss -- Only by destroying MONO can Linux be saved. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: shameful censoring of mono opposition
On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 9:50 AM, Remcoremc...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 3:38 PM, Luke Llukehasnon...@gmail.com wrote: This guy is trolling you hard. REALLY hard. Who is trolling me? I think Mark Fink can use some communication skills, but he has a certain point somewhere deep down. Wine and Mono are great interoperability efforts, but if Ubuntu is going to be using it in the default install, then Microsoft can just say: They can't even create their own application framework! yes, this is one of the MANY reasons why MONO should be removed -- Only by destroying MONO can Linux be saved. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: shameful censoring of mono opposition
On Sun, Jun 7, 2009 at 7:12 PM, Steve Reillysfrei...@roadrunner.com wrote: Mark Fink wrote: A short while ago, Roy Schestowitz wrote http://boycottnovell.com/2009/06/01/banning-opposition-to-mono/ which has some disturbing evidence of MONO supporters actively censoring good honest and concerned people such as Neighborlee on the ubuntu forums and today I read some even MORE disturbing news in http://boycottnovell.com/2009/06/06/opposition-to-mono-by-default/ this is OUTRAGEOUS! And on top of that, Roy has noted that you guys are actively hiring MONO developers like the GNOME-DO developer!?!? No wonder your distro is so corrupt! What's next!?!? I never thought I'd live to see the day where canoical would side with the asshole trolls such as the MONO camp. I'm disgusted and you guys should be ashamed. I hope you get rid of MONO. only then can your reputations be restored. - a concerned ubuntu user theres always going to be people believing theres some kind of conspiracy going on, hence the boycott novell site. im afraid your the only one damaging your reputation by posting rubbish from that site here. steve I see you are shooting the messenger, steve. the MONO camp has infiltrated canonical and now they are going around censoring anything that proves MONO to be the poison that it is. this is not a laughing matter and the fact that you slandering roy schestowitz only goes to show you are probably part of the problem. -- Only by destroying MONO can Linux be saved. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: shameful censoring of mono opposition
On Sun, Jun 7, 2009 at 7:42 PM, Christopher Olahchristopherolah...@gmail.com wrote: I hope you get rid of MONO. only then can your reputations be restored. I'm sorry... You want Ubuntu to drop a FOSS program because it's developers are allegedly being problematic? I can't follow this train of thought. I don't think Mono is a particularly useful language myself, but people are using it and Canonical (and the FOSS community at large) not providing an implementation would just make people more locked into MS. this is what the MONO developers want you to believe, but no one really wants MONO. users still using MONO only do so because they've been tricked by miquel co who worship m$ and will do anything to help them destroy linux. this is all well documented at boycottnovell.com I see you are shooting the messenger, steve. I might not be Steve, but I think you're over reacting... no, I'm not. this is very serious. And argumentum ad hominem is a logical fallacy, anyways. the MONO camp has infiltrated canonical and now they are going around censoring anything that proves MONO to be the poison that it is. I haven't had time to research your claims, but I'm inclined to say that if people are being censored it can be rectified without this sort of inflammatory response. Namely, the fact that people are aware of these claims means that situation will be rectified. this is all well documented by the articles I linked to. please read them so that you can rectify this. -- Only by destroying MONO can Linux be saved. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: making deals with M$
On Sat, Jun 7, 2008 at 7:15 PM, Scott Kitterman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sat, 7 Jun 2008 19:04:02 -0400 Mark Fink [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I just read this article: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/06/07/ubuntu-remix-codecs/ I hope this is wrong or I will have to stop using ubuntu and find another distro to use. Such a shame... Hope you are all proud of yourselves. Note that is a remix of Ubuntu (i.e. a derivative) and not Ubuntu itself. Canonical != Ubuntu. If you want to stop using Ubuntu because its primary corporate sponsor may have licensed something from Microsoft to use in some other product, knock yourself out. Scott K Just like OpenSuSE != Novell, but no one in their right mind would want to run that distro due to the taint for the same reason! As Roy Schestowitz says, this is just as bad as Moonlight! Mark -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: making deals with M$
On Sat, Jun 7, 2008 at 8:03 PM, Richard A. Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Saturday 07 June 2008, Mark Fink wrote: [...] | Just like OpenSuSE != Novell, but no one in their right mind would | want to run that distro due to the taint for the same reason! Anybody in their uneducated right mind probably. I run openSUSE and run it happily I might add. Lets take a breath here and step back from the FUD button on your keyboard. Spoken like a true Microvell shill. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: making deals with M$
On Sat, Jun 7, 2008 at 9:38 PM, Martin Owens [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Anybody in their uneducated right mind probably. I run openSUSE and run it happily I might add. Lets take a breath here and step back from the FUD button on your keyboard. Spoken like a true Microvell shill. Richard A. Johnson sees no problem with the technicalities of openSuSE and Mark Fink has problems with Novell. Not only are they mostly opinion, one is political and the other is technical but utterly daft and pointless. Now now boys and girls, lets not get away from the point of this thread, Canonical having business dealings with Microsoft. Who has something useful to say about the real subject? The problem I have with Canonical making deals with M$ is that it means that M$ gets to collect a tax from FLOSS. It also opens the door for Ubuntu itself to become even more tainted by M$ crap than it already is (MONO). Roy Schestowitz has a lot of things to say about how Miquel Icaza is trying to position MONO to destroy FLOSS and now with this codecs licensing from M$ it just makes me sick. Maybe Roy should make a site www.boycottubuntu.com too. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: making deals with M$
On Sat, Jun 7, 2008 at 9:29 PM, Scott Kitterman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Saturday 07 June 2008 21:18:09 Mark Fink wrote: On Sat, Jun 7, 2008 at 8:03 PM, Richard A. Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Saturday 07 June 2008, Mark Fink wrote: [...] | Just like OpenSuSE != Novell, but no one in their right mind would | want to run that distro due to the taint for the same reason! Anybody in their uneducated right mind probably. I run openSUSE and run it happily I might add. Lets take a breath here and step back from the FUD button on your keyboard. Spoken like a true Microvell shill. Right, because ad hominen attacks are the best way to hold a productive discussion. In case you don't know, Richard Johnson is a volunteer Kubuntu developer. He is an active MOTU. He is on both the Kubuntu and MOTU councils (these are community run entities that help the greater Ubuntu community get stuff done). He leads the entire Kubuntu documentation effort. He's currently up for core-dev. We kid him about using Vista on IRC, but he devotes countless hours to free software development. Who the heck are you and what have you done for FOSS lately except engage in random ad hominem attacks on people who are busy actually getting work done? just because I'm not a programmer doesn't mean my opinion isn't worth as much or more than yours (I'm clearly better informed about these issues having read boycottnovell and having discussed issues with Roy himself). As far as Richard Johnson being a core-dev, sounds pretty scary that you let someone so in love with Microvell to contaminate Ubuntu. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: making deals with M$
Trying to censor me? I see how it is. On Sat, Jun 7, 2008 at 10:03 PM, Stefan Potyra [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, [..] please stop posting to ubuntu-devel-discuss. Thanks, Stefan. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
