Re: sound from multiple apps
Le jeudi 12 juin 2008 à 17:40 +1000, Luke Yelavich a écrit : snip I'm just a little appalled at the state of audio support on Linux (I believe this issue is not Ubuntu only); I was trying to have a conversation on the google chat (from within the browser) and since the chat has audio alerts, mplayer refused to play audio (while the chat is open). Just a little example of broken audio support. I do not know the cause, nor the solution to the problem, I wonder how ubuntu is trying to become mainstream and have mysterious issues, such as this. What does Google Chat use? Flash? Java? It appears to use Java. So this may be a bug in a JRE. If you are using Ubuntu and GNOME, then its likely that whatever you are using is grabbing the sound device, and PulseAudio, the sound server for the Ubuntu desktop is unable to access the device, since whatever you are using in Firefox has exclusive use of the device. Its hard to say more without knowing what browser technology google chat uses. If you could tell me what it uses, then I will be able to more quickly help you work out a solution, or a workaround. Gezim, I guess you should open a bug against the package gij, and we'll be able to investigate more there. You've run into a very particular bug, and in Ubuntu the sound system is not so bad as you may think for desktop uses - actually it rocks, it's just that Java support may not be very well integrated to the rest of the system. Thanks for reporting anyway. Cheers -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Weird downstream Power Manager changes?
Le mardi 03 juin 2008 à 08:06 -0700, Dylan McCall a écrit : Aha! Sorry about the double post. Just realized that the minimum is idle time + 1 minute, which probably makes sense somewhere. (Except for the 1 minute part?!). Still, the fact that this basic setting of timers needed research to figure out suggests a need for some reorganizing. Firstly, idle time should be set in gnome-power-preferences, not just gnome-screensaver-preferences, if it has such a widespread impact. Furthermore, I think it is problematic that the idle time cannot be set differently for when on battery as opposed to when on AC power, again because of its tie to screensaver time. Perhaps this would make more sense if idle did not automatically trigger the screensaver, instead with another timer to handle that. I'm sure I read a proposal by somebody working on this in GNOME - but I cannot find where. The chances are you'll land in 2.24 with all those settings on the same preferences tab. I can't check it though, but maybe you'll be able to locate this document. Regards -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Incomplete with no response 30 days
Le dimanche 25 mai 2008 à 18:33 +1000, Sarah Hobbs a écrit : snip There seems to be an attitude of screw the developers, we are the mighty bug squad, and can do what we like here. The contrary can be true as well, but that's absolutely not the point here. ;-) But really, isn't the job of the bug squad to get bugs into a good state of triage, so they can be dealt with by the developers? Does it not make sense, therefore, to listen to what the developers want the bug squad to do to the bugs, in a general sense, and then for the bug squad to go away and deal with the specifics? I don't think the bug squad should have the right to say we will make the rules, everyone else must follow them, as, while there are many bug squad people (yes, developers are still bug squad too), the bug squad does not put real bugs (ie, not invalid, etc) in a final state, so someone always has to come after them, and touch the bugs afterwards. This is not the case for developers. I don't see the need here to oppose bug triager and developers here - yes, developers are members of the bug squad too, and the only aim of all these groups is to make Ubuntu work right. For this we need rule the best cooperation between all classes of contributors. And bug triagers are a really diverse group, from which you cannot expect to master every Ubuntu trick. The bug squad is not here to serve developers, but precisely to get needed information so that bugs are made useful to them. Developers also should make the life of bug triagers easier since their own work depends on the bug squad efficiency. As Henrik Nilsen Omma summed it up [1], there's just a need to find better conventions in order to make special bugs (sync requests...) conform to the general convention. No need to hurt anyone here: developers could simply use Confirmed instead of Incomplete when waiting for more information that *they will get by themselves*, and not from any user; Triaged and In progress are still here for more advanced states. And surely assigning bugs when somebody is taking care of a bug, even if no work is going on would help, since other developers that may want to work on the bug will know what kind of special tricks are involved. Hope we can find a common rule 1: http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-bugsquad/2008-May/000854.html -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Ubuntu beyond GTK apps?
Le vendredi 16 mai 2008 à 11:26 +0200, Thomas Novin a écrit : On Fri, 2008-05-16 at 03:02 -0600, Conrad Knauer wrote: Wouldn't it be interesting to take that a step further and have Ubuntu represent the best Linux apps (e.g. K3B?), regardless of widget dependency? If QGtkStyle (or such) could seamlessly integrate them visually, I don't see why (beyond LiveCD size restrictions) that this wouldn't be a good idea... That would be amazing. I think a pretty long list can be easily made of KDE-apps that are better than their Gnome equivalents. - Amarok Rhythmbox - Konsole Gnome Terminal - Kate Gedit - Kdenlive ??? Dear, just switch to KDE, you'll have a nice desktop environment that will suit your applications. ;-) Seriously, using some specialized Qt programs that have no good equivalent in GNOME is very important (Rosegarden, Scribus, KDenlive...), but for standard tools this would make no sense. Cheers -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Strip incompatible characters from Windows partitions!
Le vendredi 16 mai 2008 à 00:06 -0400, Scott Kitterman a écrit : On Thursday 15 May 2008 21:31, Evan wrote: On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 9:14 PM, Scott Kitterman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'd say that if there's a bug it's in Windows. I could see a wishlist bug against Ubuntu to provide a way to check for this/suggest changes to avoid problematic filenames, but there is nothing inherently defective with the current behavior. Scott K I agree that there is no inherent problem with the Ubuntu code, and it should really be up to Windows to support more characters. However I can think of several situations where this could cause considerable problems for the end user. We should at the very least provide a warning that Naming a file on this partition with any of the following characters will prevent Windows from opening it. Are you sure you want to continue? Evan Personally I'm against such hand holding. If any such feature is provided, I think it should be off by default. I happen to have some legacy FAT32 and NTFS partitions for various reasons, but the odds that they will ever be read from Windows are very low. I don't think Ubuntu's design should be predicated on the idea that it's an adjunct to using Windows. Sorry for your legacies, but IMHO partitions with a Microfost-ish filesystem are meant to be used with Windows, and if you want to use the full possibilities Unix offers you, just use Unix filesystems. The default should be to be fully Windows-compliant - and you may add an option in /etc/fstab disabling character stripping. Why the hell would you use a Windows filesystem in a Linux-only environment?! I can only think of cases when Windows will have to access one day or another the filesystem: USB keys, external HD, Windows partitions on dual boot... Samba does not provide Windows with invalid characters when sharing files, and Linux must do the same with filesystems. Hope Ubuntu is more modest than you appear to see it. Serve the user, not the ideal technology you dream of in which every character is supported in filenames. When you're working on documents, being able to read it in a conference from your USB key is much more important than being allowed to keep a '?' in its filename, isn't it? -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Ubuntu boot speed fall in Hardy
Le mercredi 14 mai 2008 à 18:10 -0400, Phillip Susi a écrit : Mackenzie Morgan wrote: On Mon, 2008-05-12 at 02:17 +0200, Vincenzo Ciancia wrote: Il giorno dom, 11/05/2008 alle 17.32 -0400, Mackenzie Morgan ha scritto: On Sun, 2008-05-11 at 10:40 +0200, Vincenzo Ciancia wrote I wish I could configure what it considers low. You can: just launch gconf-editor and take a look at apps/gnome-power-manager/thresholds. It claims it hibernates when 2 minutes remain. It lies. Sounds like you need to replace your worn out battery pack then. Or just increase it to 5 minutes and see if that buys you enough time. Normally, gnome-power-manager should detect the real time left, and not only what the batteries claim. But if you never let the battery go until 0% without trying to stop the machine, I cannot see a way for g-p-m to calibrate that, since when your computer will shut down in the middle of the hibernation process, g-p-m has already been stopped. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: 1. Unabel to unmount/eject CD/DVD ? (( ``-_-?? ) -- Fernando)
Le mercredi 14 mai 2008 à 21:03 +0100, Matthew Paul Thomas a écrit : That's a much better explanation than the error message. So you're right, it's not a bug: it's two bugs. One is that the error message is unhelpful, and the other is that the CD should be ejectable if the only programs that were using it aren't running any more. About the latter, see bug 91239: Cannot unmount volume: show which application(s) still use the drive [1]. This is a bitesize work that could be worth a bounty for somebody motivated. Cheers 1: http://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-mount/+bug/81239 -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Bug madness: High frequency of load/unload cycles
Le mardi 13 mai 2008 à 11:22 +0200, Oliver Grawert a écrit : hi, Am Montag, den 12.05.2008, 23:14 +0200 schrieb Milan Bouchet-Valat: I'd like to raise the developers' awareness about bug 59695 [1]: High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime please see this article: http://lwn.net/Articles/257426/ it is not aything ubuntu specific but a hardware vendor setting, note as well that the relatime mount option is the default with hardys 2.6.24 kernel. If you think it's been solved with the relatime option in Hardy, then please go there and explain it to the subscribers, and set the bug to Invalid. Don't let people talk again and again about these issues. But AFAIK the problem is still here, and some users are returning to Windows because they say then their Hard Cycle Count is not rising so quickly - whether this can be Ubuntu's fault or just a result a kind of bug in Windows, I cannot tell. Anyway, if it is real that on Windows heads don't park, and on Linux they do, so no matter of the cause, we should at least provide an easy workaround. Can you claim there is nothing in this bug but nonsensical fear from users? I'm not taking side here, I can be sure of anything. What I know is that we should tell them if something has to be done, will be done, and why. Thanks for you work -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: firefox and bad ssl certificates
Le vendredi 09 mai 2008 à 17:02 -0400, Phillip Susi a écrit : Martin Pitt wrote: I don't consider it a new feature, but a better UI. Firefox has always complained about invalid certificates, but until version 2 it was just the well-known 'SSL yadayada cannot be verified mumblemumble click here to shut me up' popup dialog, and really everyone just clicked this away, right? Security click-through dialogs should be abolished, since they achieve nothing and are really just an excuse for the software provider: I know it is unsafe, and cannot give you something better. Of course you can't know either, but at least I can make it your problem now. Now you get at least a proper error message page. I don't doubt that the text can be improved, and make more concise/clear, etc., but the UI is much better IMHO. I could not disagree with this more strongly. You can't go around applying nerf padding to everything to protect against the possibility of someone running head first into the wall. When you try to protect people from themselves, and that protection has a negative impact on them, you aren't doing them any favors. I don't like the fact that my car won't let me ( or my passenger ) choose to fiddle with the gps while the wheels are turning, and I don't like this change to firefox. An invalid cert is something that MIGHT be cause for concern, but often is not, so a notification is quite sufficient to let the user decide if it is ok to proceed or not. Making them jump through hoops of fire to be SURE they want to proceed is a bad idea. Notifications are never read, especially by users that are not passionate by computers - they're exactly like there was no message at all, only they annoy users: click OK and then see if there's a problem is what OS have used people to for many years. And after that the lock in the adress bar still seems to confirm you're on a secure website. Now improving the existing message to be more informative and educate the user as to what is going on is something I'm all for, but you should not assume the user has no clue and must be locked up to protect him from himself. IMHO it's not mainly about educating the user, but to force servers to use correct certificates. When freedesktop.org will understand every person that goes to their bugtracker gets to the new Firefox warning, I guess they will change their certificate. ;-) (just an example) To continue your metaphor, it's primarily intended to force GPS vendors to provide hands-free models so that then you can drive without this kind of concern. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: The new firefox start page looks a bit tricky when searching google
Le samedi 10 mai 2008 à 16:01 +0200, Vincenzo Ciancia a écrit : And, to get back on the issue, perhaps the page could just be made local. Why do we need a special Ubuntu homepage anyway? The first thing I do when creating an account is changing my homepage to google.com. This practice mades me think of Internet Explorer defaulting to msn.com - well, much less ugly since our page is not full of ads and is using a real search engine. Wouldn't it be better to provide a page with help and informations about Ubuntu and some links like: Set your homepage to google.com/to yahoo.com/to a custom page ? We should keep in mind that people install an OS not to think about this OS but to work or surf; let's not be intrusive but help them to find easily what they want. What do you think? -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Suggestion to make remote recovery easier
Le mercredi 07 mai 2008 à 03:44 +, Justin M. Wray a écrit : Another idea would be to not only tunnel SSH but also VNC. Allowing the newbie to watch the helper do something at times might be the goal, and will make help facilitate learning. In addition the issue might be with a GTK/GUI app, and VNC would be the fastest approch. If you limit your goal in this spec to general help (as opposed to recovery from an unusable system), then you can do it in a nice and easy way with Telepathy. The newbie only has to select his technical friend while they chat on Empathy, and say Give this contact control on my desktop. Then if a console is needed the geek will start it by itself (gnome-terminal). The drawback here is that in case X does not start anymore, this would not work. But for the most common case of a new Linux user asking how can I do that, this is perfect since you can see what the friend is doing, and possibily learn. And this is nicer because you don't give total control on the computer to a friend who may install what he wants (even if you trust him, this possibility may refrain you from remote help). A word about openssh-server: Please don't disable password connexions by default, it is your script that will have to do so. The defaults now are sane and quick to use. Many people are behind firewalls and can install a SSH server without fear of terrible attacks on their LANs. Only when the user is known to be a newbie not controlling the SSH server we should secure it the most. Very nice idea anyway! -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Four crashes, no apport actions
Le mercredi 07 mai 2008 à 14:36 +0200, Stéphane Graber a écrit : Apport is only used during development, it's turned off in final release. Why is it disabled? I find it very useful to debug for advanced users instead of getting gdb traces. Is there a way to manually activate it? -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Four crashes, no apport actions
Le mercredi 07 mai 2008 à 18:00 +0200, Martin Pitt a écrit : Hi, Milan Bouchet-Valat [2008-05-07 17:41 +0200]: Why is it disabled? Because (1) we have our hands full with fixing the development release and want to concentrate on it (2) we should already know about the top crashers in stable releases, and the ones which just occur randomly or very seldomly are not a good target for stable updates anyway (3) we want to avoid people filing bugs and dozens of duplicates in vain (4) automatic bug reports are always a potential privacy issue, which is more concerning for stable users. I find it very useful to debug for advanced users instead of getting gdb traces. Is there a way to manually activate it? Sure, you can turn it on in /etc/default/apport. OK, thanks for the info, I had not managed to understand why apport did sometimes start and sometimes not. But it's definitely a great tool when debugging. And I guess this can help when triagin bugs: we can simply tell the user to activate apport for the time he gets an automatic trace. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Pulseaudio/Jack in Ubuntu Hardy
Please don't take my remarks so badly! I did not said I was smarter than every audio packager in Ubuntu, nor did I said this was absolutely required for Ubuntu to be something usable and that else I'd immediately go to Windows. Believe it if you want: I'm not even personally interested in getting Ardour working out of the box since I don't use it. And I'm okay to configure jackd myself for use with Rosegarden (which AFAIK needs jack) - actually on my computer it requires no configuration but the defaults. I perfectly agree with you that as soon as you want to make your computer something quite serious you need to configure things. But what you managed until now not to answer to is: would basic defaults making jackd output to PulseAudio hurt anybody? Sure it would be slow, it would not be serious at all, but would it allow people that can stand that use JACK then? Others, as you said, will configure it. I'm not asking you to implement it, I'm just looking for a possible theoretical solution. As a user I guess I can help by telling developers what users may like to see. Have a good day -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Pulseaudio/Jack in Ubuntu Hardy
Le vendredi 25 avril 2008 à 19:45 +0200, Gonz Hauser a écrit : My opinion is that it should be possible to provide a _default_ configuration where jackd connects to pulseaudio (this is what module-jack-source is for, right?). Let me repeat my two concerns: 1. Ardour in Ubuntu Hardy doesn't work out of the box 2. It is not possible to use mplayer and ardour at the same time I believe it is possible manually fix this up but I have still the opinion that it should be possible to provide a simple default configuration. So please convince me that I'm wrong (and it isn't possible to have a working ardour on a notebook) or tell me how this can be resolved. You put so much hard work into ardour/jack/pulseaudio that it should not fail because of a small configuration mistake. Thanks for your work/ideas/help, I've been through both bugs and to me, as an occasional jack user, it seems that the best would be that jackd defaults to the pulseaudio output. Users that have better hardware and do more advanced stuff are able to tweak what they need. The current situation is bad for everybody: noobs have to configure jackd, but advanced users configure it anyway. What I don't understand is: - whether the -n 3 option would work for every standard card or if some absolutely require -n 2 - whether going though pulseaudio is really an issue concerning performance (I mean, only for base users) Since ardour requires jackd, the latter should configure itself automatically so that ardour can start it flawlessly. But maybe this is a little trickier that it seems - at least this was why pulseaudio was introduced in Hardy. Cheers -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: merging keyboard keyboard shortcuts capplets
Le vendredi 25 avril 2008 à 16:23 +1000, Jared Moore a écrit : Around a month ago I uploaded a patch to GNOME bugzilla to merge the keyboard shortcuts capplet (gnome-keybinding-properties) into the keyboard capplet (gnome-keyboard-properties) [1]. This was discussed on the gnomecc-list [2], but there was fairly limited interest from the gnome-control-center developers. This is a good idea, but what Matthias Clasen says [2] about adding mouse gestures to a broader Shortcuts applet is not stupid either. Though I can agree he's maybe not as comprehensive as he could be... ;-) I'm wondering if there is any interest in adopting this patch in Ubuntu. Clearly there is a lot of work left to be done on the patch, but I'd prefer not to spend working time on it if there isn't any interest. In particular I'm looking for developer interest, i.e. from whoever would be in a position to eventually commit this to Ubuntu. I believe that with some work this patch can be redone in a way that will minimise the size of the patch (and therefore not cause horrible breakage if/when there are upstream changes). Note that reducing the number of items in System-Preferences is the 4th highest idea on Ubuntu brainstorm [3], and there are numerous related Launchpad bugs / wiki pages / blog posts / etc. [4][5], probably more if you dig deep enough... I don't think it is reasonable to fork upstream GNOME since this will lead to quite a few problems when they change their applets. Imagine for example they create a Mouse gestures tab in the Shortcuts applet. Where will it go in Ubuntu? But maybe you can propose them to help merging applets that they'd like to see merged. Bluetooth preferences could go to Removable devices for example, and I'm sure there are plenty of ideas in that way. Hope this helps - anyway IMHO your goal is right (TM) [1] http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=78102 [2] Thread beginning at http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnomecc-list/2008-March/msg00018.html [3] http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/most_popular_ever/ [4] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MenusRevisited2 [5] http://architectfantasy.com/?p=25 -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Hardy abnormal disk use on battery
Le jeudi 24 avril 2008 à 21:45 +0200, Jan Claeys wrote: Op zondag 20-04-2008 om 20:35 uur [tijdzone +0200], schreef Milan Bouchet-Valat: I noticed that on Hardy, when (and only when) my laptop is on battery, the hard disk makes a sound every second or so, and never stops, even when no application is running but the desktop. atop reports this is pdflush that is writing something to the disk, but I could not identify why. What is strange is that as soon as I plug the power cable, the sound stop (rather illogical, sin't it?). Before reporting a bug I'd like to know if anyone sees this behavior - just unplug the cable and listen! Just a guess: check your logfiles if anything starts spewing error or warning messages when you are on battery? Nothing there either. I've opened a bug report here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/221967 Thanks anyway! -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Hardy abnormal disk use on battery
Hi all! I noticed that on Hardy, when (and only when) my laptop is on battery, the hard disk makes a sound every second or so, and never stops, even when no application is running but the desktop. atop reports this is pdflush that is writing something to the disk, but I could not identify why. What is strange is that as soon as I plug the power cable, the sound stop (rather illogical, sin't it?). Before reporting a bug I'd like to know if anyone sees this behavior - just unplug the cable and listen! -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Hardy abnormal disk use on battery
Le dimanche 20 avril 2008 à 15:11 -0500, Jerone Young wrote: Hmm..this is a guess...I have a feeling this is the new indexing search (tracker) feature at work (which I personally hate.. but it's a feature somebody is using). In your task bar you should see a magnifying glass (usually orange on the inside). In right click on it to find prefrences. You see a check box to diable or enable preferences. No, I forgot to mention I already checked it occurred even when trackerd was killed. Actually, it is smarter than you would expect and does not bother you when on battery - very nice tool IMHO. ;-) -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Hardy abnormal disk use on battery
Le dimanche 20 avril 2008 à 23:11 +0200, Przemysław Kulczycki wrote: Do you have laptop mode enabled? My guess is that it might be the (in)famous bug 59695. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 No, it's a fresh install without any tweak. But my guess would rather be that the bug I experience may accidentally solve the cycle count issue (bug 59695) since the heads can never park because of the disk activity. This is juyst an idea but may be worth checking. If no confirmation from others comes, though, I'll simply file a bug and investigate. I thought many people could experience the same, since it should not be related to hardware, but for now it's not really the case! Cheers -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Evolution spam filter not working?
Has anybody managed to get the bogofilter plugin for Evolution work in Hardy? For me, Evolution reports that learning spams works fine, everything is present (plugin and binaries), spamassasin is disabled, junk filtering is enabled, but spams don't get caught. I wonder about this because I did never have it working in precedent versions either, and I don't know if this is worth a bug. Maybe just clearing my user configuration would solve it - upgrading is often cause of trouble. Cheers -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: [Policykit] No possibilty to unlock the save option in Gedit while
(``-_-´´) -- Fernando a écrit : On Monday 24 March 2008 15:01:07 Milan Bouchet-Valat wrote: Here we can just agree, but nobody codes directly into gedit. Cheers But isn't this a problem with PolicyKit and not Gedit? AFAIK PolicyKit already allows to do this, gedit just needs to use it to get the adequate rights. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: [Policykit] No possibilty to unlock the save option in Gedit while
thibaut bethune a écrit : I think that : either the save button should not be active (at less) either the user should have the possibilty to give the password to be able to save the file (that would be perfect to me) This is a good idea, but ubuntu-devel-discuss is IMHO not the best place to talk about that. Please report a bug (wishlist) on http://bugzilla.gnome.org to the gedit product: they'll see what they can do. Here we can just agree, but nobody codes directly into gedit. Cheers -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Bug and discussion about ubuntu menu
Greg K Nicholson a écrit : On Sat, 2008-03-15 at 11:19 +0100, Milan Bouchet-Valat wrote: Ouattara Oumar Aziz (alias wattazoum) wrote: You'd call it My Diary because you are creating it for yourself. The user doesn't label the Preferences menu for themself—the label is applied by the computer. “My” is only ever used to mean “your” on toys for three-year-olds*, much like how when talking to a small child one refers to things using the name *they* should use to refer to them (for example calling yourself “Mummy” or “Daddy” instead of “me”). Small children aren't clever enough to understand pronouns. (* Windows XP—I know.) Speaking for the user—using “my” as if they'd written it—is disingenuous and/or talks down to the user, so it should be avoided. I like your way of presenting this language habit. ;-) If we could pull in the the user's actual name in a way that's compatible with a wide variety of cultures, I'd suggest using something like “Preferences for Greg”. That may do the trick, as it's already used by the home folder on the desktop. Or we ca say User Preferences, with this Administration will appear much clearer. If that's not possible, just “Preferences” will do—the word “preference” tends to imply *personal* preference anyway. I thought so, but it looks like people don't make the difference between preferences (personal) and administration (ugly system and hardware stuff). The fact is that we are now turning round. Anyway, we should make clear whther we need a deeper refactoring, in which case the Preferences/Administration issue will disappear. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Bug and discussion about ubuntu menu
Ouattara Oumar Aziz (alias wattazoum) wrote: Anyway, do we validate Preferences to Your Preferences ? I'd say My preferences, as Remco argued few mails before: Those are different things. Those tool tips are like a teacher directly speaking to you. But the text in programs is about the data. Think about a program that let's you create a diary. You'd call it My Diary because you are creating it for yourself. You're not creating one for the computer. However, the tool-tips and suggestions would address you as you. That's the computer helping you by talking to you. I approve of his classification, but this will require much work from upstream, and from Ubuntu to merge distro-specific tools into GNOME ones, like it was done for Appearance. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: libc borked (and I stop testing)
Vincenzo Ciancia a écrit : A possible idea to improve the situation is to have a regression tag, and to mark high priority all regressions. Say what you want, but this is *exactly* the behaviour that one would expect from any software distributor: things works, you break it, I tell you as soon as I discover it, you fix it as soon as possible because the bug is in the change you just made, so your change has to be fixed. If you let the regression there for three years, you'll have hysterical raisins when you put your hands back on that code. +1 Would somebody that can set up new rules for Bug Squad, QA, Bug Control and so on teams add the tag regression in the list of tags to use, and shift policy so that every regression is marked as High priority? This would at least help to sum up what should really be fixed, because often these bugs are forgotten. Cheers -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Bug and discussion about ubuntu menu
I read what you explained in the bug report, and here are a few remarks. Clarifying the confusion around Preferences Administration is IMHO a good idea, since every base user seems to have problems with it. Naming them User Preferences and System Administration can be nice since it's not too hard to change. Though, notice that the parent menu is already named System, so let's not end up with jokes like Start - Stop in Windows. If in System you have System Administration and User Preferences, this means that User Preferences is not a system setting, and thus should not be there in the menu. This can look like a detail, but IMHO it's important that we think of consistency. These strings are also very long, and may not look nice. Maybe you could simply rename them to User Preferences and Administration, the latter makes it quite clear that we're dealing with hard configuration. Here I don't have a real solution, just some advice. ;-) Please also take care of not doing this change alone - you're aware of that since you asked the list. This should be discussed with GNOME, since they have the same issue. Moreover, PolicyKit is going to add many changes in this domain, and maybe the distinction system-wide/user-only will disappear soon. This will be a real problem while we are migrating, and I'm glad you're caring about this now. Maybe the best solution would be a single Control Center, which already exists. So please see this in a long-term outlook, changes are likely to happen in the newt months. About renaming the configuration items to emphasize (Set and Modify)/(Manage, System, Global), please don't do this! I just managed to remove every piece of unneeded text there, and these expressions are really useless: if the menu description is clear enough, you know what you want to do, and you're just looking for the domain (printing, screen...) you want to configure. Everything else is bloating the menu - and will ask much work that cannot be unified in one package. And a detail: why do you make a so large list of packages to be affected? gnome-menu should be (almost) the only one. Just some (long) thoughts - good luck, it's not an easy issue -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Bug and discussion about ubuntu menu
Ouattara Oumar Aziz (alias wattazoum) wrote : Milan Bouchet-Valat wrote: I read what you explained in the bug report, and here are a few remarks. Clarifying the confusion around Preferences Administration is IMHO a good idea, since every base user seems to have problems with it. Naming them User Preferences and System Administration can be nice since it's not too hard to change. Though, notice that the parent menu is already named System, so let's not end up with jokes like Start - Stop in Windows. If in System you have System Administration and User Preferences, this means that User Preferences is not a system setting, and thus should not be there in the menu. This can look like a detail, but IMHO it's important that we think of consistency. These strings are also very long, and may not look nice. Maybe you could simply rename them to User Preferences and Administration, the latter makes it quite clear that we're dealing with hard configuration. Here I don't have a real solution, just some advice. ;-) I thought about renaming Preferences to My Preferences because User preferences might be a very long label for some language. Good idea - this should not raise any issues and would help much. This is quite like My Yahoo or other services, people will understand that at the first glance. Just propose it to upstream GNOME. Please also take care of not doing this change alone - you're aware of that since you asked the list. This should be discussed with GNOME, since they have the same issue. Moreover, PolicyKit is going to add many changes in this domain, and maybe the distinction system-wide/user-only will disappear soon. This will be a real problem while we are migrating, and I'm glad you're caring about this now. Maybe the best solution would be a single Control Center, which already exists. So please see this in a long-term outlook, changes are likely to happen in the newt months. This is indeed true. I remember the Gnome Control Center were introduced to replace those two menu sets in feisty then removed after a few days. I think the reason was that a lot of people found that it was slower to access a menu item this way. I was a supporter of an option so that advanced users can use menus, but this idea was not very popular. It's true that the default UI should suit every need we can imagine, but meanwhile, both needs seem difficult to satisfy. A more professional solution would be to merge the configurations GUIs and use policy kit to hide System Wide tasks. But this takes time. I am really wondering if we shouldn't study this solution. Have a single GUI for Printing but hide some options using policy kit ... I'll think more clearly about this and I shall write here :-) I'm not sure we'll be able to hide all system tasks and merge all tools. There are some that only deal with system settings (log viewer, software tools...) and others with the desktop (menu prefs, energy, preferred programs...); others are distro-specific system tools and thus cannot be merged (easily) with GNOME prefs. We can try to make them the less numerous possible, though. Cheers -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Bug and discussion about ubuntu menu
Ouattara Oumar Aziz (alias wattazoum) a écrit : I like the proposal. Moving from System | - Preferences ` - Administration to Configuration | - Your Preferences ` - System Administration Is every one okay with this one ? To me it's seems clearer: *Configuration* is more generic and correct regarding the sub menu items than *System* ( which seems more linked to the system Administration than to the User Desktop configuration ). You forget one detail: System is not only for configuration, else this menu would not exist. It has definitely been carefully chosen. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: System Presence Integration Idea
Chris Warburton wrote: Hi thanks for the input. I realise that such a proposal is quite open ended, thus I tried to split it into relatively clear steps to go through to try and prevent both blue sky designing and worrying about issues that end up not appearing in the implementation. I think stage 1, the discussion, should be a quite technical discussion, ie. throw some ideas into the aether and decide which of those is possible. My own train of thought was about having Telepathy running as a central, standard system to use for presence. Presence would cover general key:value type data, ie. Location:Home, Status:Busy, Activity:On The Phone, etc. (those are just examples). There may need to be an agreed upon standard for the naming here, if multiple programs and desktop environments are going to use it. IMHO what you need is a central daemon that only performs a few actions and communicated via D-BUS. You just have to set a D-BUS protocol so that programs can set/get the state: Telepathy can set it, but also retreive it when starting - this way the daemon can test some system parameters and decide of a certain state automatically depending on the network, on the battery... Maybe gnome-session could be the place to do so. And network settings has a profile management that you could integrate. Just ideas... Cheers -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
