Re: FYI: More emoji from Chrome
Rather than Emoji it might be better if people learnt Han ideographs which are also compact (and a far more developed system of communication than emoji). One CJK character can also easily replace dozens of Latin characters - which is what is being claimed for emoji. On 02/04/2014, Martin J. Dürst due...@it.aoyama.ac.jp wrote: Now that it's no longer April 1st (at least not here in Japan), I can add a (moderately) serious comment. On 2014/04/02 01:43, Ilya Zakharevich wrote: On Tue, Apr 01, 2014 at 09:01:39AM +0200, Mark Davis ☕️ wrote: More emoji from Chrome: http://chrome.blogspot.ch/2014/04/a-faster-mobiler-web-with-emoji.html with video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3NXNnoGr3Y I do not know… The demos leave me completely unimpressed: emoji — by their nature — require higher resolution than text, so an emoji for “pie” does not save any place comparing to the word itself. So the impact of this on everyday English-languare communication would not be in any way beneficial. This is somewhat different for Japanese (and languages with similar writing systems) because they have higher line height. Regards, Martin. ___ Unicode mailing list Unicode@unicode.org http://unicode.org/mailman/listinfo/unicode ___ Unicode mailing list Unicode@unicode.org http://unicode.org/mailman/listinfo/unicode
Re: FYI: More emoji from Chrome
On 02/04/2014, Martin J. Dürst due...@it.aoyama.ac.jp wrote: Now that it's no longer April 1st (at least not here in Japan), I can add a (moderately) serious comment. Long past April 1 here too - I'd already forgotten. ;-) More emoji from Chrome: http://chrome.blogspot.ch/2014/04/a-faster-mobiler-web-with-emoji.html with video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3NXNnoGr3Y I do not know… The demos leave me completely unimpressed: emoji — by their nature — require higher resolution than text, so an emoji for “pie” does not save any place comparing to the word itself. So the impact of this on everyday English-languare communication would not be in any way beneficial. This is somewhat different for Japanese (and languages with similar writing systems) because they have higher line height. Regards, Martin. So CJK glyphs take up similar space to that needed to display an emoji character. - Presumably the individual Han ideographs for pie, dumpling or turd would save as much screen space as using the corresponding emoji pictographs. Once there were enough emoji to carry on a conversation above the level of a 4 year old, they would also require an IME as complex as that needed for entering CJK text. ___ Unicode mailing list Unicode@unicode.org http://unicode.org/mailman/listinfo/unicode
Re: FYI: More emoji from Chrome
On 4/2/2014 1:42 AM, Christopher Fynn wrote: Rather than Emoji it might be better if people learnt Han ideographs which are also compact (and a far more developed system of communication than emoji). One CJK character can also easily replace dozens of Latin characters - which is what is being claimed for emoji. One wonders why the Japanese, who already know Han ideographs, took to emoji as they did A./ On 02/04/2014, Martin J. Dürst due...@it.aoyama.ac.jp wrote: Now that it's no longer April 1st (at least not here in Japan), I can add a (moderately) serious comment. On 2014/04/02 01:43, Ilya Zakharevich wrote: On Tue, Apr 01, 2014 at 09:01:39AM +0200, Mark Davis ☕️ wrote: More emoji from Chrome: http://chrome.blogspot.ch/2014/04/a-faster-mobiler-web-with-emoji.html with video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3NXNnoGr3Y I do not know… The demos leave me completely unimpressed: emoji — by their nature — require higher resolution than text, so an emoji for “pie” does not save any place comparing to the word itself. So the impact of this on everyday English-languare communication would not be in any way beneficial. This is somewhat different for Japanese (and languages with similar writing systems) because they have higher line height. Regards, Martin. ___ Unicode mailing list Unicode@unicode.org http://unicode.org/mailman/listinfo/unicode ___ Unicode mailing list Unicode@unicode.org http://unicode.org/mailman/listinfo/unicode ___ Unicode mailing list Unicode@unicode.org http://unicode.org/mailman/listinfo/unicode
Re: FYI: More emoji from Chrome
On Apr 2, 2014, at 7:19 PM, Asmus Freytag asm...@ix.netcom.com wrote: On 4/2/2014 1:42 AM, Christopher Fynn wrote: Rather than Emoji it might be better if people learnt Han ideographs which are also compact (and a far more developed system of communication than emoji). One CJK character can also easily replace dozens of Latin characters - which is what is being claimed for emoji. One wonders why the Japanese, who already know Han ideographs, took to emoji as they did All the ancient emoji characters we inherited from our ancestors were already turned into Han ideographs like this[1][2], so we needed new ones to add more Han ideographs in next centuries ;) [1] http://ameblo.jp/happy2525tkg/entry-11541848940.html [2] http://ameblo.jp/happy2525tkg/entry-11578197418.html /koji ___ Unicode mailing list Unicode@unicode.org http://unicode.org/mailman/listinfo/unicode
Re: FYI: More emoji from Chrome
On 02/04/2014, Asmus Freytag asm...@ix.netcom.com wrote: On 4/2/2014 1:42 AM, Christopher Fynn wrote: Rather than Emoji it might be better if people learnt Han ideographs which are also compact (and a far more developed system of communication than emoji). One CJK character can also easily replace dozens of Latin characters - which is what is being claimed for emoji. One wonders why the Japanese, who already know Han ideographs, took to emoji as they did Perhaps because emoji are a sort of playful version of a means of communication they are already used to ___ Unicode mailing list Unicode@unicode.org http://unicode.org/mailman/listinfo/unicode
Re: FYI: More emoji from Chrome
On 2014/04/02 20:08, Christopher Fynn wrote: On 02/04/2014, Asmus Freytag asm...@ix.netcom.com wrote: On 4/2/2014 1:42 AM, Christopher Fynn wrote: Rather than Emoji it might be better if people learnt Han ideographs which are also compact (and a far more developed system of communication than emoji). One CJK character can also easily replace dozens of Latin characters - which is what is being claimed for emoji. One wonders why the Japanese, who already know Han ideographs, took to emoji as they did Perhaps because emoji are a sort of playful version of a means of communication they are already used to Yes. Already used to the concept that a character can represent (more or less) a concept. Already used to the concept that there are lots of characters, and a few more won't make such a difference. Already used to the concept that character entry means keying a word or phrase and the selecting what you actually want. But I think the main reason for their spread was that the mobile phone companies introduced them and young people found them cute. In a followup, Line (http://line.me/en/), the most popular Japanese mobile message app (similar to WhatsApp) got popular mostly because of their gorgeous collection of 'stickers' (over 10,000), fortunately after realizing that the technically correct way to deal with them was not squeezing them into the PUA, but treating them as inline images, avoiding headaches down the line for the Unicode Consortium :-). Regards, Martin. ___ Unicode mailing list Unicode@unicode.org http://unicode.org/mailman/listinfo/unicode
Re: [Unicode] Re: FYI: More emoji from Chrome
On 04/02/2014 08:26 PM, Martin J. Dürst wrote: On 2014/04/02 20:08, Christopher Fynn wrote: On 02/04/2014, Asmus Freytag asm...@ix.netcom.com wrote: On 4/2/2014 1:42 AM, Christopher Fynn wrote: Rather than Emoji it might be better if people learnt Han ideographs which are also compact (and a far more developed system of communication than emoji). One CJK character can also easily replace dozens of Latin characters - which is what is being claimed for emoji. One wonders why the Japanese, who already know Han ideographs, took to emoji as they did Perhaps because emoji are a sort of playful version of a means of communication they are already used to Yes. Already used to the concept that a character can represent (more or less) a concept. Already used to the concept that there are lots of characters, and a few more won't make such a difference. Already used to the concept that character entry means keying a word or phrase and the selecting what you actually want. But I think the main reason for their spread was that the mobile phone companies introduced them and young people found them cute. In a followup, Line (http://line.me/en/), the most popular Japanese mobile message app (similar to WhatsApp) got popular mostly because of their gorgeous collection of 'stickers' (over 10,000), fortunately after realizing that the technically correct way to deal with them was not squeezing them into the PUA, but treating them as inline images, avoiding headaches down the line for the Unicode Consortium :-). Utilization of the words including rarely-used Han ideograph requests the deep knowledge about Chinese classics (except of the cases like what is the most complex kanji?). It is too hard for modern Japanese people who prefers video media than text media. I think the wide acceptance of new emojis and stickers (Japanese LINE users call as stamp) by Japanese young people does not mean that they have something hard to express by existing characters or emoticons. Collecting them is something like an ambition to encode all comedy skits. Regards, mpsuzuki ___ Unicode mailing list Unicode@unicode.org http://unicode.org/mailman/listinfo/unicode
Re: FYI: More emoji from Chrome
On 4/2/2014 4:05 AM, Koji Ishii wrote: On Apr 2, 2014, at 7:19 PM, Asmus Freytag asm...@ix.netcom.com wrote: On 4/2/2014 1:42 AM, Christopher Fynn wrote: Rather than Emoji it might be better if people learnt Han ideographs which are also compact (and a far more developed system of communication than emoji). One CJK character can also easily replace dozens of Latin characters - which is what is being claimed for emoji. One wonders why the Japanese, who already know Han ideographs, took to emoji as they did All the ancient emoji characters we inherited from our ancestors were already turned into Han ideographs like this[1][2], so we needed new ones to add more Han ideographs in next centuries ;) You may be on to something :) [1] http://ameblo.jp/happy2525tkg/entry-11541848940.html [2] http://ameblo.jp/happy2525tkg/entry-11578197418.html /koji ___ Unicode mailing list Unicode@unicode.org http://unicode.org/mailman/listinfo/unicode
Re: FYI: More emoji from Chrome
April 1st joke... 2014-04-01 9:01 GMT+02:00 Mark Davis ☕️ m...@macchiato.com: More emoji from Chrome: http://chrome.blogspot.ch/2014/04/a-faster-mobiler-web-with-emoji.html with video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3NXNnoGr3Y ___ Unicode mailing list Unicode@unicode.org http://unicode.org/mailman/listinfo/unicode ___ Unicode mailing list Unicode@unicode.org http://unicode.org/mailman/listinfo/unicode
Re: FYI: More emoji from Chrome
Yup! Mark https://google.com/+MarkDavis *— Il meglio è l’inimico del bene —* On 1 April 2014 09:13, Philippe Verdy verd...@wanadoo.fr wrote: April 1st joke... 2014-04-01 9:01 GMT+02:00 Mark Davis ☕️ m...@macchiato.com: More emoji from Chrome: http://chrome.blogspot.ch/2014/04/a-faster-mobiler-web-with-emoji.html with video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3NXNnoGr3Y ___ Unicode mailing list Unicode@unicode.org http://unicode.org/mailman/listinfo/unicode ___ Unicode mailing list Unicode@unicode.org http://unicode.org/mailman/listinfo/unicode
Re: FYI: More emoji from Chrome
On 1 Apr 2014, at 09:13, Philippe Verdy verd...@wanadoo.fr wrote: April 1st joke... Sure – it really works, though. Try it out. Kinda cool :) I would’ve preferred if Google had finally implemented support for proper emoji in OS X, though: https://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=62435 ___ Unicode mailing list Unicode@unicode.org http://unicode.org/mailman/listinfo/unicode
Re: FYI: More emoji from Chrome
On Tue, Apr 01, 2014 at 09:01:39AM +0200, Mark Davis ☕️ wrote: More emoji from Chrome: http://chrome.blogspot.ch/2014/04/a-faster-mobiler-web-with-emoji.html with video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3NXNnoGr3Y I do not know… The demos leave me completely unimpressed: emoji — by their nature — require higher resolution than text, so an emoji for “pie” does not save any place comparing to the word itself. So the impact of this on everyday English-languare communication would not be in any way beneficial. However, this MAY be a beginning of revolution in scientific communication. Science-and-about publications contains very long words in abundance, and it is HERE where impact of emojification should be felt the most! So I think the task of emojification of scientific terms — be it “secularization”, “gamma-globulin”, or “derived ∞-category” — should be at elevated priority in the Unicode commitees. The general public often considers scientific publications are too dense, and does not bother to read many scienific journals. What Google did is a beginning of a major step forward in making contemporary science (finally!) accessible to general public. Ilya ___ Unicode mailing list Unicode@unicode.org http://unicode.org/mailman/listinfo/unicode
Re: FYI: More emoji from Chrome
2014-04-01 18:43 GMT+02:00 Ilya Zakharevich nospam-ab...@ilyaz.org: However, this MAY be a beginning of revolution in scientific communication. Science-and-about publications contains very long words in abundance, and it is HERE where impact of emojification should be felt the most! So I think the task of emojification of scientific terms — be it “secularization”, “gamma-globulin”, or “derived ∞-category” — should be at elevated priority in the Unicode commitees. The general public often considers scientific publications are too dense, and does not bother to read many scienific journals. Density of scientific publication is not much about word lengths (actually they are not really longer than in general text) but in terms of precision added by each word and associated informations that require frequent use of qualifiers and subqualifiers. Frequently it is difficult to give names to the concepts so scientists will start using notations, and many abbreviations defined specifically for a document or topic which can only be understood in their specific context (outside this context, or without prior knowledge of commonly used conventions the text will look extremely confuse). Note also that the common use of synonyms in generic speach does not apply here because scientists tend to create stronger distinctions between terms that most public would not really discriminate. This is all about terminology and even this list frequently has problems discussing concepts due to terms that are now carrying more precise meaning (an example on this list is all the discussions related to character, codes, code points, collation element vs. collating element : the general public cannot see the differences and the specifications then look very confusive or obscure to them). Reading a scientific paper requires then much more attention and prior knowledge of specific conventions. What Google did is a beginning of a major step forward in making contemporary science (finally!) accessible to general public. Not at all. Emojis are certainly not what scientists are using for their needed conventions, simply because their representation is too much permissive (they carry similar emotions, their glyphs are frequently modified with lots of variants, different colors, styles.) In fact scientists do not use emojis. When thye need to summaize concepts, they create conventional abreviations/acronyms, or symbols with precise glyphs (and the glyph appearence is semantically important, e.g. in maths, chemical formulas, electronic, physics, building engineering...), or specific terminologies (legal texts...). These conventions are not freely translatable with emojis. Even a cookbook for meals cannot use easily emojis. If words are not enough qualifying, they'll use photos. But cuisine or gardening also has its own terminology. ___ Unicode mailing list Unicode@unicode.org http://unicode.org/mailman/listinfo/unicode
Re: FYI: More emoji from Chrome
Now that it's no longer April 1st (at least not here in Japan), I can add a (moderately) serious comment. On 2014/04/02 01:43, Ilya Zakharevich wrote: On Tue, Apr 01, 2014 at 09:01:39AM +0200, Mark Davis ☕️ wrote: More emoji from Chrome: http://chrome.blogspot.ch/2014/04/a-faster-mobiler-web-with-emoji.html with video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3NXNnoGr3Y I do not know… The demos leave me completely unimpressed: emoji — by their nature — require higher resolution than text, so an emoji for “pie” does not save any place comparing to the word itself. So the impact of this on everyday English-languare communication would not be in any way beneficial. This is somewhat different for Japanese (and languages with similar writing systems) because they have higher line height. Regards, Martin. ___ Unicode mailing list Unicode@unicode.org http://unicode.org/mailman/listinfo/unicode
