Re: unsubscibe

[James Carman]

Thank you for your sincere and honest explanation.  In the future, I would
reply with something like this:

To unsubscribe from this mailing list, please send an email to
user-unsubscr...@cassandra.apache.org.  You will receive another email,
confirming that you wish to leave the mailing list.   Simply reply to that
email.  You will then receive another email saying 'goodbye' from the
mailing list, confirming that you have been unsubscribed.

I would leave out the "as mentioned everywhere" part.



On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 7:03 AM Alain RODRIGUEZ  wrote:

> Hi guys,
>
> Firstly, I want to apologize to you all. English is not my first language
> and I think sometimes I come across way more harsh than what I mean to. I
> am french, I heard french were considered to be aggressive while speaking
> ;-). But I did not mean to offend anyone.
>
> I took some time to answer every unsubscribe message in the last weeks,
> because the first person I sent this message to, thanked me and told me he
> get confused because after a search, he saw other people unsubscribed this
> way (sending 'unsubscribe') and just copied this behaviour. I did not do it
> for fun or to be bad at people but rather to help them out. I also meant to
> help us as well as a community reducing the noise in the mailing list since
> a search now often returns my answer on how to unsubscribe properly with
> the warning that writing to the list will do nothing but noise.
>
> Yet as there are a few unsubscribe messages every week, I created a
> template answer I mainly copy / paste each time. A way to make sure to have
> a clear and short answer and that I can quickly answer to every
> 'unsubscribe' message. I wanted to avoid spending that much time on this as
> you can imagine...
>
> Over the last 2 months, I have reworked this message to be more concise
> and less aggressive, as I considered my first messages to be a bit too
> aggressive indeed. I thought this one was ok though.
>
> Let me explain why I did the google stuff.
>
> I think that to have this mailing list working as efficiently as possible
> we need 2 things :
>
> - First thing, a good mailing list with nice features and I definitely
> agree with this.
>
> First, as you said, people don't read instructions. Second, people forget
>
>
> +1 (even if I am a believer and I think people do read instructions, they
> obviously won't remember, so no matter if people read or not)
>
> I think the overall issue here is that there are many apps that provide an
>> "unsubscribe" button that automagically sends these emails.
>
> I think the best course of action would be to bring this up to the powers
>> that be to possibly decide on supporting this functionality as a feature.
>
>
> +1
>
> This may be a silly question, but has anyone considered making the mailing
>> list accept unsubscribe requests this way?  Or at least filter them out and
>> auto-respond with a message explaining how to unsubscribe?
>
>
> +1
>
> Yet I am not sure who is in charge here.
>
> - Second thing, people behaving nicely and smartly.
>
> This is a community and the quality and atmosphere is the one we bring as
> individuals.
>
> Meaning I have to be nicer, since a few of you agreed saying my message
> was a bit tough.
>
> But also meaning people have to do the basic searches before asking things
> here. Everyone manages to subscribe, I just want to remind people that the
> method to unsubscribe is the same one, search on google (or whatever you
> like). I always try to provide people with the method I used (or even the
> command when appropriate) to solve their issue and the result of my
> searches, for people to see how I found the information. I didn’t think
> telling people to search on google was more patronizing than telling them
> to use 'nodetool status' to see if a node is down. It is obviously
> something they know about but did not think of using. Plus I gave all the
> information, it was not like "Ask google or RTFM", since I added
> informations:
>
> You did not unsubscribe yet.
>
>
> And even the solution directly
>
> Sending a message to user-unsubscr...@cassandra.apache.org, as mentioned
>> everywhere, should work better and spam less people.
>
>
> Those are just facts. It's concise, I agree, but be sure of my good
> intentions there. I do not spend time being bad at people, this is a lost
> of time. I try to help here, as I did for the last 4+ years in this mailing
> list now.
>
> So sorry again, I hope you can all accept that there was no harm meant and
> I did not mean to be rude.
>
> Thanks all - and I promise I will try my best to communicate less french
> in the future ;-)
>
> C*heers,
> Alain
>
>
> 2016-08-15 16:30 GMT+02:00 James Carman :
>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 15, 2016 at 10:28 AM Eric Evans 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I'm always surprised when a Google search for 'unsubscribe cassandra'
>>> doesn't return mailing list results from 

Re: unsubscibe

[Alain RODRIGUEZ]

Hi guys,

Firstly, I want to apologize to you all. English is not my first language
and I think sometimes I come across way more harsh than what I mean to. I
am french, I heard french were considered to be aggressive while speaking
;-). But I did not mean to offend anyone.

I took some time to answer every unsubscribe message in the last weeks,
because the first person I sent this message to, thanked me and told me he
get confused because after a search, he saw other people unsubscribed this
way (sending 'unsubscribe') and just copied this behaviour. I did not do it
for fun or to be bad at people but rather to help them out. I also meant to
help us as well as a community reducing the noise in the mailing list since
a search now often returns my answer on how to unsubscribe properly with
the warning that writing to the list will do nothing but noise.

Yet as there are a few unsubscribe messages every week, I created a
template answer I mainly copy / paste each time. A way to make sure to have
a clear and short answer and that I can quickly answer to every
'unsubscribe' message. I wanted to avoid spending that much time on this as
you can imagine...

Over the last 2 months, I have reworked this message to be more concise and
less aggressive, as I considered my first messages to be a bit too
aggressive indeed. I thought this one was ok though.

Let me explain why I did the google stuff.

I think that to have this mailing list working as efficiently as possible
we need 2 things :

- First thing, a good mailing list with nice features and I definitely
agree with this.

First, as you said, people don't read instructions. Second, people forget


+1 (even if I am a believer and I think people do read instructions, they
obviously won't remember, so no matter if people read or not)

I think the overall issue here is that there are many apps that provide an
> "unsubscribe" button that automagically sends these emails.

I think the best course of action would be to bring this up to the powers
> that be to possibly decide on supporting this functionality as a feature.


+1

This may be a silly question, but has anyone considered making the mailing
> list accept unsubscribe requests this way?  Or at least filter them out and
> auto-respond with a message explaining how to unsubscribe?


+1

Yet I am not sure who is in charge here.

- Second thing, people behaving nicely and smartly.

This is a community and the quality and atmosphere is the one we bring as
individuals.

Meaning I have to be nicer, since a few of you agreed saying my message was
a bit tough.

But also meaning people have to do the basic searches before asking things
here. Everyone manages to subscribe, I just want to remind people that the
method to unsubscribe is the same one, search on google (or whatever you
like). I always try to provide people with the method I used (or even the
command when appropriate) to solve their issue and the result of my
searches, for people to see how I found the information. I didn’t think
telling people to search on google was more patronizing than telling them
to use 'nodetool status' to see if a node is down. It is obviously
something they know about but did not think of using. Plus I gave all the
information, it was not like "Ask google or RTFM", since I added
informations:

You did not unsubscribe yet.


And even the solution directly

Sending a message to user-unsubscr...@cassandra.apache.org, as mentioned
> everywhere, should work better and spam less people.


Those are just facts. It's concise, I agree, but be sure of my good
intentions there. I do not spend time being bad at people, this is a lost
of time. I try to help here, as I did for the last 4+ years in this mailing
list now.

So sorry again, I hope you can all accept that there was no harm meant and
I did not mean to be rude.

Thanks all - and I promise I will try my best to communicate less french in
the future ;-)

C*heers,
Alain


2016-08-15 16:30 GMT+02:00 James Carman :

>
>
> On Mon, Aug 15, 2016 at 10:28 AM Eric Evans 
> wrote:
>
>>
>> I'm always surprised when a Google search for 'unsubscribe cassandra'
>> doesn't return mailing list results from people nicely telling someone
>> how to unsubscribe.
>>
>>
> Agreed.  It doesn't make for a very welcoming community to attract new
> contributors, either.
>

Re: unsubscibe

[James Carman]

On Mon, Aug 15, 2016 at 10:28 AM Eric Evans 
wrote:

>
> I'm always surprised when a Google search for 'unsubscribe cassandra'
> doesn't return mailing list results from people nicely telling someone
> how to unsubscribe.
>
>
Agreed.  It doesn't make for a very welcoming community to attract new
contributors, either.

Re: unsubscibe

[Eric Evans]

On Sat, Aug 13, 2016 at 7:24 PM, James Carman
 wrote:
> Was the Google stuff really necessary? Couldn't you have just nicely told
> them how to unsubscribe?

I'm always surprised when a Google search for 'unsubscribe cassandra'
doesn't return mailing list results from people nicely telling someone
how to unsubscribe.


-- 
Eric Evans
john.eric.ev...@gmail.com

Re: unsubscibe

[Branton Davis]

This may be a silly question, but has anyone considered making
the mailing list accept unsubscribe requests this way?  Or at least filter
them out and auto-respond with a message explaining how to unsubscribe?  Seems
like it should be pretty simple and would make it easier for folks to leave
and less noise for the rest of us.

On Sat, Aug 13, 2016 at 7:48 PM, James Carman <ja...@carmanconsulting.com>
wrote:

> I've never noticed the unsubscribe button. That may be a good idea,
> though, to support such a feature. Maybe we should poke infra!
>
> On Sat, Aug 13, 2016 at 8:46 PM Russell Bradberry <rbradbe...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> While there is an informative email when you sign up, there are a couple
>> issues with it. First, as you said, people don't read instructions. Second,
>> people forget. I would have to search back to when I signed up for the list
>> in order to find how to unsubscribe. Lastly, gmail and many other apps
>> provide a button that says "unsubscribe" which does little more than send
>> an email to the list. The latter is the reason I am suggesting that this be
>> worked in as an additional way to unsubscribe from the list.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Aug 13, 2016 at 8:39 PM -0400, "James Carman" <
>> ja...@carmanconsulting.com> wrote:
>>
>> I see the confusion on quite a few lists around the organization. It's
>>> not rampant, but it does happen. Perhaps it would be a good idea to improve
>>> the communication somehow. When you first subscribe, you get a pretty
>>> informative email describing all of the things you can do via email, but
>>> who reads instructions?!?! :). I wonder if infra could force a footer on
>>> the emails or something.
>>>
>>> On Sat, Aug 13, 2016 at 8:35 PM Russell Bradberry <rbradbe...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I think the overall issue here is that there are many apps that provide
>>>> an "unsubscribe" button that automagically sends these emails.
>>>>
>>>> I think the best course of action would be to bring this up to the
>>>> powers that be to possibly decide on supporting this functionality as a
>>>> feature. This, of course, because this method of unsubscribing from lists
>>>> is pretty much standard now.
>>>>
>>>> Im not sure the patronizing responses with Google links help at all.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _
>>>> From: James Carman <ja...@carmanconsulting.com>
>>>> Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2016 8:24 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: unsubscibe
>>>> To: <user@cassandra.apache.org>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Was the Google stuff really necessary? Couldn't you have just nicely
>>>> told them how to unsubscribe?
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Aug 13, 2016 at 7:52 PM Alain RODRIGUEZ <arodr...@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> You did not unsubscribe yet.
>>>>>
>>>>> 'unsubscribe cassandra' in google search:
>>>>>
>>>>> Result 1: http://www.planetcassandra.org/apache-cassandra-mailing-
>>>>> lists/
>>>>> Result 2: http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/cassandra-user/
>>>>> Result 3: http://cassandra.apache.org/
>>>>>
>>>>> Sending a message to user-unsubscr...@cassandra.apache.org, as
>>>>> mentioned everywhere, should work better and spam less people.
>>>>>
>>>>> Alain
>>>>>
>>>>> 2016-08-13 23:32 GMT+02:00 Lawrence Turcotte <
>>>>> lawrence.turco...@gmail.com>:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>

Re: unsubscibe

[James Carman]

I've never noticed the unsubscribe button. That may be a good idea, though,
to support such a feature. Maybe we should poke infra!

On Sat, Aug 13, 2016 at 8:46 PM Russell Bradberry <rbradbe...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> While there is an informative email when you sign up, there are a couple
> issues with it. First, as you said, people don't read instructions. Second,
> people forget. I would have to search back to when I signed up for the list
> in order to find how to unsubscribe. Lastly, gmail and many other apps
> provide a button that says "unsubscribe" which does little more than send
> an email to the list. The latter is the reason I am suggesting that this be
> worked in as an additional way to unsubscribe from the list.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Aug 13, 2016 at 8:39 PM -0400, "James Carman" <
> ja...@carmanconsulting.com> wrote:
>
> I see the confusion on quite a few lists around the organization. It's not
>> rampant, but it does happen. Perhaps it would be a good idea to improve the
>> communication somehow. When you first subscribe, you get a pretty
>> informative email describing all of the things you can do via email, but
>> who reads instructions?!?! :). I wonder if infra could force a footer on
>> the emails or something.
>>
>> On Sat, Aug 13, 2016 at 8:35 PM Russell Bradberry <rbradbe...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I think the overall issue here is that there are many apps that provide
>>> an "unsubscribe" button that automagically sends these emails.
>>>
>>> I think the best course of action would be to bring this up to the
>>> powers that be to possibly decide on supporting this functionality as a
>>> feature. This, of course, because this method of unsubscribing from lists
>>> is pretty much standard now.
>>>
>>> Im not sure the patronizing responses with Google links help at all.
>>>
>>>
>>> _
>>> From: James Carman <ja...@carmanconsulting.com>
>>> Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2016 8:24 PM
>>> Subject: Re: unsubscibe
>>> To: <user@cassandra.apache.org>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Was the Google stuff really necessary? Couldn't you have just nicely
>>> told them how to unsubscribe?
>>>
>>> On Sat, Aug 13, 2016 at 7:52 PM Alain RODRIGUEZ <arodr...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> You did not unsubscribe yet.
>>>>
>>>> 'unsubscribe cassandra' in google search:
>>>>
>>>> Result 1:
>>>> http://www.planetcassandra.org/apache-cassandra-mailing-lists/
>>>> Result 2: http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/cassandra-user/
>>>> Result 3: http://cassandra.apache.org/
>>>>
>>>> Sending a message to user-unsubscr...@cassandra.apache.org, as
>>>> mentioned everywhere, should work better and spam less people.
>>>>
>>>> Alain
>>>>
>>>> 2016-08-13 23:32 GMT+02:00 Lawrence Turcotte <
>>>> lawrence.turco...@gmail.com>:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>

Re: unsubscibe

[Russell Bradberry]

While there is an informative email when you sign up, there are a couple issues 
with it. First, as you said, people don't read instructions. Second, people 
forget. I would have to search back to when I signed up for the list in order 
to find how to unsubscribe. Lastly, gmail and many other apps provide a button 
that says "unsubscribe" which does little more than send an email to the list. 
The latter is the reason I am suggesting that this be worked in as an 
additional way to unsubscribe from the list.





On Sat, Aug 13, 2016 at 8:39 PM -0400, "James Carman" 
<ja...@carmanconsulting.com> wrote:










I see the confusion on quite a few lists around the organization.  It's not 
rampant, but it does happen.  Perhaps it would be a good idea to improve the 
communication somehow.  When you first subscribe, you get a pretty informative 
email describing all of the things you can do via email, but who reads 
instructions?!?! :). I wonder if infra could force a footer on the emails or 
something.  
On Sat, Aug 13, 2016 at 8:35 PM Russell Bradberry <rbradbe...@gmail.com> wrote:

I think the overall issue here is that there are many apps that 
provide an "unsubscribe" button that automagically sends these emails.
I think the best course of action would be to bring this up to the powers that 
be to possibly decide on supporting this functionality as a feature. This, of 
course, because this method of unsubscribing from lists is pretty much standard 
now.
Im not sure the patronizing responses with Google links help at all.



_
From: James Carman <ja...@carmanconsulting.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2016 8:24 PM
Subject: Re: unsubscibe
To:  <user@cassandra.apache.org>


Was the Google stuff really necessary? Couldn't you have just nicely told them 
how to unsubscribe?
On Sat, Aug 13, 2016 at 7:52 PM Alain RODRIGUEZ <arodr...@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,

You did not unsubscribe yet.
'unsubscribe cassandra' in google search:

Result 1: http://www.planetcassandra.org/apache-cassandra-mailing-lists/Result 
2: http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/cassandra-user/Result 3: 
http://cassandra.apache.org/
Sending a message to user-unsubscr...@cassandra.apache.org, as mentioned 
everywhere, should work better and spam less people.
Alain
2016-08-13 23:32 GMT+02:00 Lawrence Turcotte <lawrence.turco...@gmail.com>:

Re: unsubscibe

[James Carman]

I see the confusion on quite a few lists around the organization. It's not
rampant, but it does happen. Perhaps it would be a good idea to improve the
communication somehow. When you first subscribe, you get a pretty
informative email describing all of the things you can do via email, but
who reads instructions?!?! :). I wonder if infra could force a footer on
the emails or something.

On Sat, Aug 13, 2016 at 8:35 PM Russell Bradberry <rbradbe...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> I think the overall issue here is that there are many apps that provide an
> "unsubscribe" button that automagically sends these emails.
>
> I think the best course of action would be to bring this up to the powers
> that be to possibly decide on supporting this functionality as a feature.
> This, of course, because this method of unsubscribing from lists is pretty
> much standard now.
>
> Im not sure the patronizing responses with Google links help at all.
>
>
> _
> From: James Carman <ja...@carmanconsulting.com>
> Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2016 8:24 PM
> Subject: Re: unsubscibe
> To: <user@cassandra.apache.org>
>
>
>
> Was the Google stuff really necessary? Couldn't you have just nicely told
> them how to unsubscribe?
>
> On Sat, Aug 13, 2016 at 7:52 PM Alain RODRIGUEZ <arodr...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> You did not unsubscribe yet.
>>
>> 'unsubscribe cassandra' in google search:
>>
>> Result 1: http://www.planetcassandra.org/apache-cassandra-mailing-lists/
>> Result 2: http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/cassandra-user/
>> Result 3: http://cassandra.apache.org/
>>
>> Sending a message to user-unsubscr...@cassandra.apache.org, as mentioned
>> everywhere, should work better and spam less people.
>>
>> Alain
>>
>> 2016-08-13 23:32 GMT+02:00 Lawrence Turcotte <lawrence.turco...@gmail.com
>> >:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>

Re: unsubscibe

[Russell Bradberry]

I think the overall issue here is that there are many apps that provide an 
"unsubscribe" button that automagically sends these emails.
I think the best course of action would be to bring this up to the powers that 
be to possibly decide on supporting this functionality as a feature. This, of 
course, because this method of unsubscribing from lists is pretty much standard 
now.
Im not sure the patronizing responses with Google links help at all.



_
From: James Carman <ja...@carmanconsulting.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2016 8:24 PM
Subject: Re: unsubscibe
To:  <user@cassandra.apache.org>


Was the Google stuff really necessary? Couldn't you have just nicely told them 
how to unsubscribe?
On Sat, Aug 13, 2016 at 7:52 PM Alain RODRIGUEZ <arodr...@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,

You did not unsubscribe yet.
'unsubscribe cassandra' in google search:

Result 1: http://www.planetcassandra.org/apache-cassandra-mailing-lists/Result 
2: http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/cassandra-user/Result 3: 
http://cassandra.apache.org/
Sending a message to user-unsubscr...@cassandra.apache.org, as mentioned 
everywhere, should work better and spam less people.
Alain
2016-08-13 23:32 GMT+02:00 Lawrence Turcotte <lawrence.turco...@gmail.com>:

Re: unsubscibe

[James Carman]

Was the Google stuff really necessary? Couldn't you have just nicely told
them how to unsubscribe?

On Sat, Aug 13, 2016 at 7:52 PM Alain RODRIGUEZ  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> You did not unsubscribe yet.
>
> 'unsubscribe cassandra' in google search:
>
> Result 1: http://www.planetcassandra.org/apache-cassandra-mailing-lists/
> Result 2: http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/cassandra-user/
> Result 3: http://cassandra.apache.org/
>
> Sending a message to user-unsubscr...@cassandra.apache.org, as mentioned
> everywhere, should work better and spam less people.
>
> Alain
>
> 2016-08-13 23:32 GMT+02:00 Lawrence Turcotte 
> :
>
>>
>>
>

Re: unsubscibe

[Alain RODRIGUEZ]

Hi,

You did not unsubscribe yet.

'unsubscribe cassandra' in google search:

Result 1: http://www.planetcassandra.org/apache-cassandra-mailing-lists/
Result 2: http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/cassandra-user/
Result 3: http://cassandra.apache.org/

Sending a message to user-unsubscr...@cassandra.apache.org, as mentioned
everywhere, should work better and spam less people.

Alain

2016-08-13 23:32 GMT+02:00 Lawrence Turcotte :

>
>

unsubscibe

[Lawrence Turcotte]

unsubscibe

[Steven Haar]

unsubscibe