[USMA:21413] Re: Millilitres vs centilitres
Here's a dumb question. Why is the base unit of mass the kilogram rather than the gram? David Owen
[USMA:21414] Pat Naughtin's Metric Today article a seminal event
It's good to be back. Last week, I received the latest issue of Metric Today, and I must urge US metrication advocates everywhere to read Pat Naughtin's discussion in that issue. Nothing that I have read since I took up this issue in 1974 comes as close to a societal guide for US metrication as these remarks do. Any future US Metric Board member should take his article, frame it in their offices, and consult it daily. Paul Trusten, R.Ph. 3609 Caldera Blvd, Apt. 122 Midland TX 79707-2872 USA [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[USMA:21415] Re: Pat Naughtin's Metric Today article a seminal event
HMmm...I wish I had my issues. I joined USMA 1.5 years ago and haven't heard peep since. No newsletters, no follow-on communications. Hmmm.Maybe they have a wrong address for me or something. At 12:47 2002-07-29 -0400, Paul Trusten wrote: It's good to be back. Last week, I received the latest issue of Metric Today, and I must urge US metrication advocates everywhere to read Pat Naughtin's discussion in that issue. Nothing that I have read since I took up this issue in 1974 comes as close to a societal guide for US metrication as these remarks do. Any future US Metric Board member should take his article, frame it in their offices, and consult it daily. Paul Trusten, R.Ph. 3609 Caldera Blvd, Apt. 122 Midland TX 79707-2872 USA [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[USMA:21416] Re: Millilitres vs centilitres
Try asking the question another way, and the answer becomes more apparent. Why is the base unit called the kilogram and not the x? Why is it gram and not millix? There has been some debate, here, as to what x should be called. In the transition, many years ago, from the cgs (centimeter/gram/second) to the mks (meter/kilogram/second) system, the base units were chosen in order that derived units would be of a manageable size (unlike the minuscule dynes, ergs, etc. of the cgs system). Just as the cgs system included one prefixed unit (the cm), the mks system also did (kg). In the evolution from mks to mksA to SI, the kilogram could easily have been replaced by an unprefixed unit with a new name (but the same value). Unfortunately it wasn't and there is no clear indication of whether it ever will. Bill Potts, CMS Roseville, CA http://metric1.org [SI Navigator] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of David Owen Sent: Monday, July 29, 2002 07:00 To: U.S. Metric Association Subject: [USMA:21413] Re: Millilitres vs centilitres Here's a dumb question. Why is the base unit of mass the kilogram rather than the gram? David Owen
[USMA:21417] Re: Pat Naughtin's Metric Today article a seminal event
Brian: If you think they may have the wrong address, you should contact them. Unless you do, they have no way of knowing what the right address is. Of course, if you joined 18 months ago, your membership will have expired. Bill Potts, CMS Roseville, CA http://metric1.org [SI Navigator] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Brian J White Sent: Monday, July 29, 2002 10:05 To: U.S. Metric Association Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [USMA:21415] Re: Pat Naughtin's Metric Today article a seminal event HMmm...I wish I had my issues. I joined USMA 1.5 years ago and haven't heard peep since. No newsletters, no follow-on communications. Hmmm.Maybe they have a wrong address for me or something. At 12:47 2002-07-29 -0400, Paul Trusten wrote: It's good to be back. Last week, I received the latest issue of Metric Today, and I must urge US metrication advocates everywhere to read Pat Naughtin's discussion in that issue. Nothing that I have read since I took up this issue in 1974 comes as close to a societal guide for US metrication as these remarks do. Any future US Metric Board member should take his article, frame it in their offices, and consult it daily. Paul Trusten, R.Ph. 3609 Caldera Blvd, Apt. 122 Midland TX 79707-2872 USA [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[USMA:21418] Re: Metrical composition
In USMA 21404 Pat Naughtin wrote: Dear Joe, on 2002-07-29 00.34, Joseph B. Reid at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Re: [USMA:21399] Re: Metrication activities metrics *noun* 1. The mathematical theory of measurement. 2. The science or art of metrical composition. For definition 2, do you mean something like: Nine, fine, coal miners Ninety metres underground. Nine, fine, coal miners Listen, can you hear a sound. Nine, fine, coal miners Now all found - all safe and sound. Perhaps your last couplet would qualify.. I suspect that the lexicographer had something like Beethoven's Fifth in mind. Joe Joseph B.Reid 17 Glebe Road West Toronto M5P 1C8 Tel. 416 486-6071
[USMA:21420] Re: Millilitres vs centilitres
Mike Joy wrote in USMA 21407: I am not aware of anyone in the world using cm for anything except for body height. In 1976 Albert J. Mettler carrried out an international survey of metric practice. With regard to the use of the centimetre he found: engi- arch- caren- plumb- boby cloth- neers tects tersers meas. ing Europe -- Austria x x x Belgiumx x x x x x Czechoslovakiax x x x Denmark x x Finlandx x x x x x France x x x x x x Germany, West x x x x Germany, East x x x x x Greecex x x x x Hungary x x x x x Icelandx x x Italy x x x Luxemburgx x x Poland x x x x Spain x x x x x x Sweden xx x Switzerland x x Yugoslaviax x x x x Africa Algeriax x x x x x Botswsana x Cameroom xx Egypt x x xx x x Mauritius x x Moroccox x xx x x Rhodesiax x South Africax x Sudan x x Tchad x x xx x Uganda x x xx x x Zaire x x xx x x Asia Cyprusx x x India x xx x x Indonesia x x xx x x Iran x x xx x x Iraq x Israel x x xx x x Japan x x xx x x Jordan x x xx x Kuwait x x xx x x Philippines x xx x x Thailand x x xx Turkey x x xx x x South America Chile x x xx x x Columbia x x xx x x Ecuadorx x xx x x Paraguay x x x x Peru x x x x Uruguayx x xx x x Venezuela x x xx x x Central America Costa Rica x x xx x x Cuba xx x x Guatemala x x xx x x Haiti x x x x x Honduras x x x Mexico x x xx x El Salvador x x x x Here in Australia, even the mm is ass umed. If we want to by a sheet of board for the wall for instance, we just say twelve hundred by twenty-four hundred please and it's obvious what it is. It's hardly likely to be twelve hundred cm wide, or even twelve hundred feet (god forbid). This is how Americans will be talking soon (don't know when) and the sooner the better. On another point, I notice everyone is putting a space between the numeral and the unit. There is no space (as in the ifp system) so it's 1200mm or 1 200mm, not 1200 mm. Mike Joy Perth, Australia The *Bureau International des Poids et Mesures* uses a space between the number and the symbol, even in the case of degree Celsius, e.g. 20 ¨C. (I am an independent thinker; I write 20°C.) The use of a space is particularly important when uses l as the symbol for litre. Does 50l mean 50 litres or 501 something? Joseph B.Reid 17 Glebe Road West Toronto M5P 1C8 Tel. 416 486-6071
[USMA:21419] Re: A pint's a pound the whole world round
Pat Naughtin asked in USMA 21405: When did the English pint change from 16 ounces = one pint to twenty ounces = one pint. I have seen a date of 1878, but I'm not sure of its validity. Pat Naughtin CAMS The imperial gallon, and hence tne imperial pint, was established in 1824. The imperial gallon was defined as 10 pounds of water at 62° f. This was the British response to the metric system, and is the only factor of ten in the imperial system. Further standarization against the cubic decimetre was published in 1896.;The United Kingdom ratified the *Convention du Mètre* in 1884. I have not been able to find out what happened in 1878. Joseph B.Reid 17 Glebe Road West Toronto M5P 1C8 Tel. 416 486-6071
[USMA:21421] Re: Millilitres vs centilitres
Anyone using a proportional font can do what I did in order to properly read Joe's table -- copy and paste to Notepad (or the Mac's equivalent). As Notepad always uses a fixed font, the table lines up. Bill Potts, CMS Roseville, CA http://metric1.org [SI Navigator] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Joseph B. Reid Sent: Monday, July 29, 2002 11:52 To: U.S. Metric Association Subject: [USMA:21420] Re: Millilitres vs centilitres Mike Joy wrote in USMA 21407: I am not aware of anyone in the world using cm for anything except for body height. In 1976 Albert J. Mettler carrried out an international survey of metric practice. With regard to the use of the centimetre he found: engi- arch- caren- plumb- boby cloth- neers tects tersers meas. ing Europe -- Austria x x x Belgiumx x x x x x Czechoslovakiax x x x Denmark x x Finlandx x x x x x France x x x x x x Germany, West x x x x Germany, East x x x x x Greecex x x x x Hungary x x x x x Icelandx x x Italy x x x Luxemburgx x x Poland x x x x Spain x x x x x x Sweden xx x Switzerland x x Yugoslaviax x x x x Africa Algeriax x x x x x Botswsana x Cameroom xx Egypt x x xx x x Mauritius x x Moroccox x xx x x Rhodesiax x South Africax x Sudan x x Tchad x x xx x Uganda x x xx x x Zaire x x xx x x Asia Cyprusx x x India x xx x x Indonesia x x xx x x Iran x x xx x x Iraq x Israel x x xx x x Japan x x xx x x Jordan x x xx x Kuwait x x xx x x Philippines x xx x x Thailand x x xx Turkey x x xx x x South America Chile x x xx x x Columbia x x xx x x Ecuadorx x xx x x Paraguay x x x x Peru x x x x Uruguayx x xx x x Venezuela x x xx x x Central America Costa Rica x x xx x x Cuba xx x x Guatemala x x xx x x Haiti x x x x x Honduras x x x Mexico x x xx x El Salvador x x x x Here in Australia, even the mm is ass umed. If we want to by a sheet of board for the wall for instance, we just say twelve hundred by twenty-four hundred please and it's obvious what it is. It's hardly likely to be twelve hundred cm wide, or even twelve hundred feet (god forbid). This is how Americans will be talking soon (don't know when) and the sooner the better. On another point, I notice everyone is putting a space between the numeral and the unit. There is no space (as in the ifp system) so it's
[USMA:21422] Re: A pint's a pound the whole world round
Further to my USMA 21419 I have just found that the USA ratified the Convention du Mètre on 1878 September 27. Pat Naughtin asked in USMA 21405: When did the English pint change from 16 ounces = one pint to twenty ounces = one pint. I have seen a date of 1878, but I'm not sure of its validity. Pat Naughtin CAMS The imperial gallon, and hence tne imperial pint, was established in 1824. The imperial gallon was defined as 10 pounds of water at 62° f. This was the British response to the metric system, and is the only factor of ten in the imperial system. Further standarization against the cubic decimetre was published in 1896.;The United Kingdom ratified the *Convention du Mètre* in 1884. I have not been able to find out what happened in 1878. Joseph B.Reid Joseph B.Reid 17 Glebe Road West Toronto M5P 1C8 Tel. 416 486-6071
[USMA:21423] Hearing is Believing
2002-07-29 I wonder if it will work on a target 100 m away. If it only works up to 100 yards away, that is like saying that it won't work up to 100 m as 100 m is 9 m farther than 100 yards. Read entire article by clicking on link below. Woody Norris wants to tell you somethingand he can put the words inside your head from 100 yards away. Is his invention sound, or just a pipe dream? The Hyper-Sonic Sound System (HSS), as he calls it, can take an audio signal from virtually any sourcehome stereo, TV, computer, microphone, etc.and convert it to an ultrasonic frequency that can be directed like a beam of light toward a target up to 100 yards away. http://www.msnbc.com/news/786016.asp John
[USMA:21424] got metric milk?
I get out my car here in Texas, walk towards the grocery store window, and beam with satisfaction at those wondeful posters screaming the special price of ONE LITER of soda or water (no WOMBAT conversion in those sales posters). How thoroughly the American public has embraced that unit, which came up and offered it a hug more than 25 years ago! The words ONE LITER are shown in the largest fonts the container bears--the WOMBAT units are the fine print. The soda industry has gone on to offer 3-liter containers. So, why can't we have metric milk? Why no 3-liter jug of moo juice? Anybody seen any SI skim in America? Don't the dairy barons want to seel 215 mL of additional product per container? A couple of years ago, someone on this list said (s)he had seen a 3-liter milk jug for sale, and I've been lookng, but no joy yet. -- Paul Trusten, R.Ph. 3609 Caldera Blvd., Apt. 122 Midland TX 79707-2872 USA [EMAIL PROTECTED] There are two cardinal sins, from which all the others spring: impatience and laziness. ---Franz Kafka
[USMA:21425] Hold your fire---here's my correction
OK, before you flame, I meant 215 mL more if they were going to upgrade the gallon to four liters. I went back and changed the whole thing to 3 liters without thinkng. Paul Trusten wrote: I get out my car here in Texas, walk towards the grocery store window, and beam with satisfaction at those wondeful posters screaming the special price of ONE LITER of soda or water (no WOMBAT conversion in those sales posters). How thoroughly the American public has embraced that unit, which came up and offered it a hug more than 25 years ago! The words ONE LITER are shown in the largest fonts the container bears--the WOMBAT units are the fine print. The soda industry has gone on to offer 3-liter containers. So, why can't we have metric milk? Why no 3-liter jug of moo juice? Anybody seen any SI skim in America? Don't the dairy barons want to seel 215 mL of additional product per container? A couple of years ago, someone on this list said (s)he had seen a 3-liter milk jug for sale, and I've been lookng, but no joy yet. -- Paul Trusten, R.Ph. 3609 Caldera Blvd., Apt. 122 Midland TX 79707-2872 USA [EMAIL PROTECTED] There are two cardinal sins, from which all the others spring: impatience and laziness. ---Franz Kafka
[USMA:21426] Re: Millilitres vs centilitres
Thanks for that, Pat. I guess the space was put in to separate the 'l' for litres so it doesn't look like a figure 1. But when the script 'l' is used it's not so much of a problem. Even so, I have never seen a space between the numeral and the unit in normal practice. Regards Mike Dear Mike, Check the Bureau International de Poids et Mesures website at www.bipm.fr There you will find the Metric Bible, the 'International System of Units' that can be downloaded freely in French or English. When you examine this you will find that in all cases there is a space between a number and a unit. For example, five metres is written as 5 m is symbol form. Cheers, Pat Naughtin CAMS Geelong, Australia on 2002-07-29 11.00, Mike Joy at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On another point, I notice everyone is putting a space between the numeral and the unit. There is no space (as in the ifp system) so it's 1200mm or 1 200mm, not 1200 mm.
[USMA:21427] Re: got metric milk?
Sure, Mike. Back in September 1997, someone on this list sought an appropriate name for the things we Americans use as a system of measurement (most of us who favor US adoption, including myself, of SI don't think we have a system of measurement at all, just an collection of whimsically established units that fell into general use centuries ago and have never been revoked) In response to this request, my mind began to turn, and I called it the Way Of Measuring Badly in America Today. Lo and behold, this acronym came out as the same name as a small mammal, W.O.M.B.A.T.. For a few years, the acronym caught on as a synonym for what some call the US Customary System of measurment (feet, miles pounds), but perhaps it has fallen into disuse. Mike Joy wrote: Can you tell me what ' Wombat' is please? Mike Joy Perth Australia - Original Message - From: Paul Trusten [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: U.S. Metric Association [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 7:22 AM Subject: [USMA:21424] got metric milk? | | I get out my car here in Texas, walk towards the grocery store window, | and beam with satisfaction at those wondeful posters screaming the | special price of ONE LITER of soda or water (no WOMBAT conversion in | those sales posters). How thoroughly the American public has embraced | that unit, which came up and offered it a hug more than 25 years ago! | The words ONE LITER are shown in the largest fonts the container | bears--the WOMBAT units are the fine print. The soda industry has gone | on to offer 3-liter containers. | | So, why can't we have metric milk? Why no 3-liter jug of moo juice? | Anybody seen any SI skim in America? Don't the dairy barons want to seel | 215 mL of additional product per container? | | A couple of years ago, someone on this list said (s)he had seen a | 3-liter milk jug for sale, and I've been lookng, but no joy yet. | | | | -- | Paul Trusten, R.Ph. | 3609 Caldera Blvd., Apt. 122 | Midland TX 79707-2872 USA | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | | There are two cardinal sins, | from which all the others spring: | impatience and laziness. | | ---Franz Kafka | | -- Paul Trusten, R.Ph. 3609 Caldera Blvd., Apt. 122 Midland TX 79707-2872 USA [EMAIL PROTECTED] There are two cardinal sins, from which all the others spring: impatience and laziness. ---Franz Kafka
[USMA:21428] Re: got metric milk?
I was in Costco the other dayand they had some sales on bottled water. The sale sign for the 1 liter bottles read - 30 pack 1-liter bottles - $4.99 The sale sign for the 500ml bottles read - 40 pack 16.9 fl oz bottles - $3.99 Go figure. At 18:22 2002-07-29 -0500, Paul Trusten wrote: I get out my car here in Texas, walk towards the grocery store window, and beam with satisfaction at those wondeful posters screaming the special price of ONE LITER of soda or water (no WOMBAT conversion in those sales posters). How thoroughly the American public has embraced that unit, which came up and offered it a hug more than 25 years ago! The words ONE LITER are shown in the largest fonts the container bears--the WOMBAT units are the fine print. The soda industry has gone on to offer 3-liter containers. So, why can't we have metric milk? Why no 3-liter jug of moo juice? Anybody seen any SI skim in America? Don't the dairy barons want to seel 215 mL of additional product per container? A couple of years ago, someone on this list said (s)he had seen a 3-liter milk jug for sale, and I've been lookng, but no joy yet.
[USMA:21429] Re: Millilitres vs centilitres
Common practice is to use a capital L (approved in 1979). The BIPM SI brochure does not permit the use of a cursive small L. It specifically prescribes only l and L. There is no doubt that the common British practice is to omit the space. However, all examples in official SI documentation use a space. Bill Potts, CMS Roseville, CA http://metric1.org [SI Navigator] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Mike Joy Sent: Monday, July 29, 2002 16:30 To: U.S. Metric Association Subject: [USMA:21426] Re: Millilitres vs centilitres Thanks for that, Pat. I guess the space was put in to separate the 'l' for litres so it doesn't look like a figure 1. But when the script 'l' is used it's not so much of a problem. Even so, I have never seen a space between the numeral and the unit in normal practice. Regards Mike Dear Mike, Check the Bureau International de Poids et Mesures website at www.bipm.fr There you will find the Metric Bible, the 'International System of Units' that can be downloaded freely in French or English. When you examine this you will find that in all cases there is a space between a number and a unit. For example, five metres is written as 5 m is symbol form. Cheers, Pat Naughtin CAMS Geelong, Australia on 2002-07-29 11.00, Mike Joy at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On another point, I notice everyone is putting a space between the numeral and the unit. There is no space (as in the ifp system) so it's 1200mm or 1 200mm, not 1200 mm.
