[USMA:26276] Irish speed limits
A government committee is assessing all existing speed limits in view of their coming metrication. Limits will be rationalised. At present there are bad country roads with a 60 mph limit and stretches of motorway or other high quality roads with a 30 mph limit. Yesterday I read in the Irish Examiner about a Garda (police) speed trap on a high quality road with a 30 mph limit. They were writing away, having a real field day. One proposal is to increase the speed limit on the motorways from 70 mph to 120 km/h. This is the speed om most European motorways, except in Germany, where motoirists are allowed to push the gas in as far as they want, and where just an advisory speed l;oimit of 130 km/h applies. A sector that is not progressing at all is tiles and carpets. Almost everything is priced by the square yard, no metric in sight. Han __ http://www.wanadoo.nl/
[USMA:26277] the blinds of habit
Pat Naughtin asks why the United States is the last nation to admit the extent to which it uses the metric system. The answer to that question is that our prevailing units of measurement are an old habit from which we've never been weaned. However, habits can be broken, and I was reminded of the breakability of this habit this morning when I had a bottle of Minute Maid Apple Juice, which was supplied in the odd-sized container of 450 ml. This size seems to be a reduction from the prevailing 591 ml size. Why not 500 ml? With the opportunity to drop the WOMBAT labeling, metric volumes will arrive in America on little cat feet, just like the liter did in 1974, when 7-Up just started making liters, and the industry followed suit. Paul Trusten, R.Ph. 3609 Caldera Blvd, Apt. 122 Midland TX 79707-2872 USA 432-694-6208 [EMAIL PROTECTED] There are two cardinal sins, from which all the others spring: impatience and laziness. ---Franz Kafka
[USMA:26278] FPLA amendment progress?
Is there anyone on the list who has heard any news about the proposed FPLA amendment that would permit metric-only on consumer products' labels? Thanks.John Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
[USMA:26280] Re: FPLA amendment progress?
I second the question, which dovetails nicely with my blinds of habit post. What's the latest on this crucial issue for US metrication? From: John Woelflein [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2003/07/10 Thu AM 11:44:40 EDT To: U.S. Metric Association [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [USMA:26278] FPLA amendment progress? Is there anyone on the list who has heard any news about the proposed FPLA amendment that would permit metric-only on consumer products' labels? Thanks. John - Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! Paul Trusten, R.Ph. 3609 Caldera Blvd, Apt. 122 Midland TX 79707-2872 USA 432-694-6208 [EMAIL PROTECTED] There are two cardinal sins, from which all the others spring: impatience and laziness. ---Franz Kafka Is there anyone on the list who has heard any news about the proposed FPLA amendment that would permit metric-only on consumer products' labels? Thanks.John Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
[USMA:26279] web site
2003 July 10 I now have a web site, www.frii.com/~metriconly I hope the site does a good job of explaining why using two systems of measures like we do in the US is a bad idea. Any suggestions or comments are welcome. Robert Bushnell
[USMA:26281] Irish speed limits
A government committee is assessing all existing speed limits in view of their coming metrication. I spoke on the phone to the person chairing this committee about its progress. The report should be delivered to the Minister by the end of July. Limits will be rationalised. At present there are bad country roads with a 60 mph limit and stretches of motorway or other high quality roads with a 30 mph limit. Yesterday I read in the Irish Examiner about a Garda (police) speed trap on a high quality road with a 30 mph limit. They were writing away, having a real field day. Everyone agrees the current limits are not consistent. Since the recent introduction of 'penalty points' after many years of poor enforcement, they are realizing that they have to make sense if they are going to be obeyed. I was glad to hear that Conor Faughnan of the AA was on this committee. His presence should at least prevent widespread rounding down of the limits. The fact that 120 km/h is being suggested rather than 110 km/h is also promising. The amount of activity and publicity this time around has me much more optimistic that this time it will be done. One proposal is to increase the speed limit on the motorways from 70 mph to 120 km/h. This piece was leaked, and appeared on the front page of the Sunday Times. It makes sense to increase the motorway speed, provided it is to be enforced (our problems are caused not by limits that are too high, but by limits that are widely ignored and poorly enforced). The article seemed to find this controversial. Interestingly enough, there was no controversy at all about the actual metric changeover itself (the article did mention the metric units, although the did use 'kph'). There seems to be no opposition at all to this aspect, which from this forum's point of view is the most significant thing. This is the speed om most European motorways, ... 130 km/h in France, 120 will do me. A sector that is not progressing at all is tiles and carpets. Almost everything is priced by the square yard, no metric in sight. I wrote to the Director of Consumer Affairs about this in light of a recent directive mandating unit pricing. They wrote back to confirm that pricing by the square yard or the lb (some butchers still do it) does not fulfill the requirements (use of imperial is permitted only if metric pricing is given too). I intend formally complaining to the ODCA after checking with local carpet shops. The problem, of course, is that price per square yard looks cheaper. --- Tom Wade | EMail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EuroKom | X400: g=tom;s=wade;o=eurokom;p=eurokom; Unit A2 |a=eirmail400;c=ie Nutgrove Office Park | Tel: +353 (1) 296-9696 Rathfarnham | Fax: +353 (1) 296-9697 Dublin 14| Disclaimer: This is not a disclaimer Ireland | Tip: Friends don't let friends do Unix !
[USMA:26282] Re: Irish speed limits
On 2003 Jul 10 Thursday 17:46, Tom Wade VMS Systems wrote: ... A sector that is not progressing at all is tiles and carpets. Almost everything is priced by the square yard, no metric in sight. I wrote to the Director of Consumer Affairs about this in light of a recent directive mandating unit pricing. They wrote back to confirm that pricing by the square yard or the lb (some butchers still do it) does not fulfill the requirements (use of imperial is permitted only if metric pricing is given too). I intend formally complaining to the ODCA after checking with local carpet shops. The problem, of course, is that price per square yard looks cheaper. It's interesting that here in the UK /yd2 carpet prices are still given alongside /m2, tiles are universally quoted per m2 only (in my limited experience). -- Chris KEENAN UK Metric Association www.metric.org.uk
[USMA:26284] Carpet prices
Dear Tom, Han, and All, on 2003-07-11 03.46, Tom Wade VMS Systems at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip I intend formally complaining to the ODCA after checking with local carpet shops. The problem, of course, is that price per square yard looks cheaper. Have you used the '10 11 12 13' rule for approximate conversions. It is based on these approximations: 10 metres is about 11 yards, 10 square metres is about 12 square yards, 10 cubic metres is about 13 cubic yards. On this basis the square yard prices of carpets would be almost 20 % lower than the square metre prices. Cheers, Pat Naughtin LCAMS Geelong, Australia Pat Naughtin is the editor of the free online newsletter, 'Metrication matters'. You can subscribe by sending an email containing the words subscribe Metrication matters to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --
[USMA:26285] RE: Introduction
You've already established your starting point. You're now participating in this list and have left the virtual closet inhabited by list lurkers. A good next step would be to join the U.S. Metric Association. If you go to http://metric1.org/USMA.htm, you can click on the third link on the page for the USMA application form. Just print it out, then mail it, along with a check for the ridiculously cheap annual membership fee. You'll also note that the last link on that page is to the USMA information on becoming a Certified Metrication Specialist or a Certified Advanced Metrication Specialist. Onward and upward! (Oh -- and welcome!) Bill Potts, CMS Roseville, CA http://metric1.org [SI Navigator] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of David Shatto Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 15:06 To: U.S. Metric Association Subject: [USMA:26283] Introduction Hello. I joined this list a few weeks ago, and think it's time to stop lurking and get involved. To compliment your efforts, let me say that I'm glad that there are other like-minded people who are working to bring about an internationally used system of measurement (and not just one that's agreed to in principle!) I grew up in Canada and began elementary school in the early 70's during the initial stages of its conversion to metric. I can remember the catchy metrication logo, teachers teaching the new metric system, and at least one funny short film by the National Film Board about the perils of metrication (a satire, of course). I delighted in chastising my parents when they slipped into using the old imperial units. Since moving to the US in 2000 I've been continually irked by the pervasive bombardment of non-metric terms that I've been forced to adopt. Well, enough is enough! I'm ready to join your struggle for rationalism and simplicity! I've never been a metric activist but would like to become one. I'm an internationalist at heart, and a scientist wannabe. From time to time I do a bit of research on the state of progress in worldwide metrication, and joined this list to get the news as it happens. It's been interesting so far. Do any of you veteran activists have any advice for a newbie such as I? Is there any particular starting point? I look forward to working with you. == David Shatto, Programmer/Analyst Institute of Geophysics and Planetary Physics, University of California, Los Angeles Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ==
[USMA:26286] RE: Carpet prices
Shame on you, Pat. The price per square meter would be about 20% higher than per square yard. However, the price per square yard would be a little under 17% lower than per square meter [((12-10)//12)*100 = 16.67]. Bill Potts, CMS Roseville, CA http://metric1.org [SI Navigator] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Pat Naughtin Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 15:10 To: U.S. Metric Association Subject: [USMA:26284] Carpet prices Dear Tom, Han, and All, on 2003-07-11 03.46, Tom Wade VMS Systems at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip I intend formally complaining to the ODCA after checking with local carpet shops. The problem, of course, is that price per square yard looks cheaper. Have you used the '10 11 12 13' rule for approximate conversions. It is based on these approximations: 10 metres is about 11 yards, 10 square metres is about 12 square yards, 10 cubic metres is about 13 cubic yards. On this basis the square yard prices of carpets would be almost 20 % lower than the square metre prices. Cheers, Pat Naughtin LCAMS Geelong, Australia Pat Naughtin is the editor of the free online newsletter, 'Metrication matters'. You can subscribe by sending an email containing the words subscribe Metrication matters to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --
[USMA:26287] RE: Carpet prices
Oops. There should be only one / in that equation. (I've become too accustomed to typing the double slash in URLs.) Bill Potts, CMS Roseville, CA http://metric1.org [SI Navigator] -Original Message- From: Bill Potts [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 16:12 To: U.S. Metric Association Subject: RE: [USMA:26284] Carpet prices Shame on you, Pat. The price per square meter would be about 20% higher than per square yard. However, the price per square yard would be a little under 17% lower than per square meter [((12-10)//12)*100 = 16.67]. Bill Potts, CMS Roseville, CA http://metric1.org [SI Navigator] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Pat Naughtin Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 15:10 To: U.S. Metric Association Subject: [USMA:26284] Carpet prices Dear Tom, Han, and All, on 2003-07-11 03.46, Tom Wade VMS Systems at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip I intend formally complaining to the ODCA after checking with local carpet shops. The problem, of course, is that price per square yard looks cheaper. Have you used the '10 11 12 13' rule for approximate conversions. It is based on these approximations: 10 metres is about 11 yards, 10 square metres is about 12 square yards, 10 cubic metres is about 13 cubic yards. On this basis the square yard prices of carpets would be almost 20 % lower than the square metre prices. Cheers, Pat Naughtin LCAMS Geelong, Australia Pat Naughtin is the editor of the free online newsletter, 'Metrication matters'. You can subscribe by sending an email containing the words subscribe Metrication matters to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --
[USMA:26288] Re: Irish speed limits
In a message dated 2003-07-10 13:47:19 Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I wrote to the Director of Consumer Affairs about this in light of a recent directive mandating unit pricing. They wrote back to confirm that pricing by the square yard or the lb (some butchers still do it) does not fulfill the requirements (use of imperial is permitted only if metric pricing is given too). I intend formally complaining to the ODCA after checking with local carpet shops. The problem, of course, is that price per square yard looks cheaper. Here in the USA we now see carpeting and hardwood flooring priced by the square foot. Immediately everything looks really cheap -- nine times cheaper, in fact. In reality, of course, nine times the square foot price is a fair bit more than the old square yard price was. Hard to play those games with metric. Carleton
[USMA:26289] Re: Introduction
Dear David, on 2003-07-11 08.05, David Shatto at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello. I joined this list a few weeks ago, and think it's time to stop lurking and get involved. Welcome to the USMA list. You asked: Do any of you veteran activists have any advice for a newbie such as I? Is there any particular starting point? My initial advice would be to 'Change your own mind to metric' before you try to convince others. A good start for me was to measure my own body parts. If you use my figures as examples, it might give you a good start: My thumb nail is 1 millimetre thick. My little finger nail is 10 millimetres across. My thumb, at the base of the nail is 25 millimetres wide. My hand is 100 millimetres wide, across the knuckles. My hand span is 250 millimetres, from thumb to little finger. My cubit, from elbow to lingest finger is 500 millimetres. My normal walking pace is about 750 millimetres. I can walk with a stretched pace of 1 metre for the purpose of stepping out distances. Normally, I walk at about 100 metres per minute. I am 1.85 metres tall. I am overweight at 120 kilograms. My body Mass Index is (way too high at) 35. For temperatures, this rhyme might help: Zero¹s freezing, 10 is not. 20¹s pleasing, 30¹s hot. 40 frying 50 dying. Early on you should also decide that you will only use the International Systrem of Units (SI). SI is the modern version of the metric system and it is preferred to previous metric systems. One of the reasons why I am suggesting that you learn this stuff early, is that once others learn that you are a promoter of the International System of Units the modern metric system, many will try to trick you into using old measures just to confirm that it's still morally OK for them to continue with their old ways. Also they will be probing your knowledge and trying to check how deep your conviction is. Cheers, Pat Naughtin LCAMS Geelong, Australia Pat Naughtin is the editor of the free online newsletter, 'Metrication matters'. You can subscribe by sending an email containing the words subscribe Metrication matters to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --
[USMA:26290] Square decimeter carpet pricing? (Re: Re: Irish speedlimits)
That got me thinking...Since carpet and tile are priced by the square foot in the US, pricing it by the smaller square decimeter would be a popular (with the carpet tile sellers) way to make the prices look cheaper. -- Jason - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: U.S. Metric Association Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 4:19 PM Subject: [USMA:26288] Re: Irish speed limits In a message dated 2003-07-10 13:47:19 Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I wrote to the Director of Consumer Affairs about this in light of a recentdirective mandating unit pricing. They wrote back to confirm that pricing bythe square yard or the lb (some butchers still do it) does not fulfill therequirements (use of imperial is permitted only if metric pricing is giventoo). I intend formally complaining to the ODCA after checking with localcarpet shops. The problem, of course, is that price per square yard lookscheaper.Here in the USA we now see carpeting and hardwood flooring priced by the square foot. Immediately everything looks really cheap -- nine times cheaper, in fact. In reality, of course, nine times the square foot price is a fair bit more than the old square yard price was. Hard to play those games with metric.Carleton
[USMA:26291] PennDOT 2003
Don't know why this didn't post an hour ago -Original Message- From: Nat Hager III [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, 10 July 2003 19:28 To: metric mailing ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) Subject: PennDOT 2003 Just some observations on PennDOT. I have no idea what there internal policies are, but it looks like they are continuing preferential metric. 1) Construction Specifications are in Metric(English) format as shown below. 2) A construction project 5 km up the highway is clearly marked every 20 m on the pavement. A simple resurfacing project I commute through every day, however, is ifp. 3) A construction website in Northern PA (Route 15) lists this week's activities as Paving 25 mm asphalt.. and Paving 19 mm asphalt... etc. This is not for contractors, but the general public. I only checked as I was driving through on the 4th July. Certainly looks like its hanging on in our fair state. Nat - PennDOT website: www.dot.state.pa.us Doing business Construction Specifications Preface 408/2003 Commonwealth of Pennsylvania DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION Publication 408/2003 SPECIFICATIONS PREFACE Use of Dimension Values: Pub 408/2003 is a single set of Construction Specifications that contains all measurements in dual values, Metric followed by English in parentheses. This feature was used to facilitate the construction of individual projects using Metric or English dimensions, not a mixture. Prior to the initiation of a project's design the Department will specify the dimension value to be used throughout. Subsequently, dual values will not be indicated on design drawings,renderings, or in details and instructions that are project specific. Similarly, there will not be a mixing of values in formulating calculations or in presentation. In addition, to provide clarification, each project bid proposal will contain a Special Provision that will specify the dimension value to be used. Route 15 construction website: http://www.route15-mansfield.com/weeklyupdates.htm
