Re: Mac IIci / Hard Drive Questions
My Reply follows quote. On 14/11/2005 05:41 [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: I recently picked up a IIci on Ebay which is working great. From my old Mac IIcx, which doesn't work, I have an internal and external hard drive. When hooking up the external drive to the IIci, it looks like it's trying to boot from the external drive, could this be because it may have a higher SCSI ID than the IIci's internal drive? Should I try to reset the internal drives SCSI jumpers to a higher ID? The internal drive on Macs is almost always set to 0 or no jumpers installed. I wouldn't mess with that drive if it boots with no external drive attached. I don't know what the external drive is set to (old CAi external w/software scsi control). Can I put my old IIcx internal drive in the IIci and boot from it? I wasn't sure if the two machines are close enough for System 7 to be able to run properly? I was not aware that there was a way to control SCSI devices with software SCSI control. At least as far as SCSI ID is concerned. All of the external SCSI devices I have come across have a switch that lets you set the ID or are labelled with a set SCSI ID. I know that there are software applications that let you start and stop a SCSI drive and such, but not adjust the SCSI ID. The internal drive from the IIcx may work in the IIci with no changes. The most likely error, assuming the drive is functional, would be a dialog saying something about an incompatible system. I would give it a go and see what happens. Ken -- Vintage Macs is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Enter To Win A | -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299 | Free iBook! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html Vintage Macs list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/vintagemacs.shtml -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:vintage.macs@mail.maclaunch.com To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/vintage.macs%40mail.maclaunch.com/ iPod Accessories for Less at 1-800-iPOD.COM Fast Delivery, Low Price, Good Deal www.1800ipod.com
Re: Mac IIci / Hard Drive Questions
At 13:41 + 11/14/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I recently picked up a IIci on Ebay which is working great. From my old Mac IIcx, which doesn't work, I have an internal and external hard drive. When hooking up the external drive to the IIci, it looks like it's trying to boot from the external drive, could this be because it may have a higher SCSI ID than the IIci's internal drive? Should I try to reset the internal drives SCSI jumpers to a higher ID? I don't know what the external drive is set to (old CAi external w/software scsi control). Can I put my old IIcx internal drive in the IIci and boot from it? I wasn't sure if the two machines are close enough for System 7 to be able to run properly? The classic standard was to boot from the SCSI ID saved in the PRAM, probably by the startup disk control panel. If that fails due to a bad or incompatible disk the SCSI chain is searched downward from SCSI 6 looking for a system folder with finder and system in it. Is the PRAM battery OK? If the boot succeeds from anywhere can you use the startup disk control panel? Of course the drives MUST have different IDs, ID7 is the computer itself. If the external is software controlled perhaps it is set to zero by default. It really doesn't hurt to - carefully - plug in an external SCSI after boot. Just don't short a pin to ground and blow the terminator power fuse. SCSI Probe is a piece of software you should have. To temporarily kill a system folder on a disk make a new folder named FinderKiller inside of the system folder and move Finder into it. -- --The Creator is the God who provided the void and the rules that matter and energy must live by in order to exist in it. Intelligent designers and engineers create useful stuff while abiding by the rules.-- -- Vintage Macs is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Enter To Win A | -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299 | Free iBook! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html Vintage Macs list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/vintagemacs.shtml -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:vintage.macs@mail.maclaunch.com To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/vintage.macs%40mail.maclaunch.com/ iPod Accessories for Less at 1-800-iPOD.COM Fast Delivery, Low Price, Good Deal www.1800ipod.com
Re: Mac IIci / Hard Drive Questions
Hmmm...when I boot from the internal HD in the IIci by itself, everything works great. When I plug in the external HD and try to boot, I get the Mac with the ? in it upon boot. Could this be the two drives set to the same ID? I also read I can try cmd-opt-shift-delete-(#) to boot from a specific SCSI ID... Thanks for the assistance! At 13:41 + 11/14/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I recently picked up a IIci on Ebay which is working great. From my old Mac IIcx, which doesn't work, I have an internal and external hard drive. When hooking up the external drive to the IIci, it looks like it's trying to boot from the external drive, could this be because it may have a higher SCSI ID than the IIci's internal drive? Should I try to reset the internal drives SCSI jumpers to a higher ID? I don't know what the external drive is set to (old CAi external w/software scsi control). Can I put my old IIcx internal drive in the IIci and boot from it? I wasn't sure if the two machines are close enough for System 7 to be able to run properly? The classic standard was to boot from the SCSI ID saved in the PRAM, probably by the startup disk control panel. If that fails due to a bad or incompatible disk the SCSI chain is searched downward from SCSI 6 looking for a system folder with finder and system in it. Is the PRAM battery OK? If the boot succeeds from anywhere can you use the startup disk control panel? Of course the drives MUST have different IDs, ID7 is the computer itself. If the external is software controlled perhaps it is set to zero by default. It really doesn't hurt to - carefully - plug in an external SCSI after boot. Just don't short a pin to ground and blow the terminator power fuse. SCSI Probe is a piece of software you should have. To temporarily kill a system folder on a disk make a new folder named FinderKiller inside of the system folder and move Finder into it. -- --The Creator is the God who provided the void and the rules that matter and energy must live by in order to exist in it. Intelligent designers and engineers create useful stuff while abiding by the rules.-- -- Vintage Macs is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Enter To Win A | -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299 | Free iBook! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html Vintage Macs list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/vintagemacs.shtml -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:vintage.macs@mail.maclaunch.com To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/vintage.macs%40mail.maclaunch.com/ iPod Accessories for Less at 1-800-iPOD.COM Fast Delivery, Low Price, Good Deal www.1800ipod.com -- Vintage Macs is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Enter To Win A | -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299 | Free iBook! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html Vintage Macs list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/vintagemacs.shtml -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:vintage.macs@mail.maclaunch.com To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/vintage.macs%40mail.maclaunch.com/ iPod Accessories for Less at 1-800-iPOD.COM Fast Delivery, Low Price, Good Deal www.1800ipod.com
Re: Mac IIci / Hard Drive Questions
At 16:40 + 11/14/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I get the Mac with the ? in it upon boot. Could this be the two drives set to the same ID? The ? icon tells you that the computer can't find a disk of any kind. Duplicate SCSI IDs means that a request on that ID will be garbled and the computer will think no disk is there. Find out how to set the ID on that software controlled SCSI disk. Manufacturer's web site? Another machine on which it once worked might have some software. Perhaps there are some jumpers for the default that will be obvious if you take it out of its housing. There were some automatic SCSI disks made that never worked on Macs. Many had 80 or 68 pin connectors that wouldn't fit anyway. -- -- Science is the business of codifying the rules and methods employed by the Intelligent Designer. Religions provide myths to mollify the anxiety experienced by those who choose not to participate. -- -- Vintage Macs is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Enter To Win A | -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299 | Free iBook! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html Vintage Macs list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/vintagemacs.shtml -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:vintage.macs@mail.maclaunch.com To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/vintage.macs%40mail.maclaunch.com/ iPod Accessories for Less at 1-800-iPOD.COM Fast Delivery, Low Price, Good Deal www.1800ipod.com
Re: Mac IIci / Hard Drive Questions
on 11/14/05 7:41 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I recently picked up a IIci on Ebay which is working great. From my old Mac IIcx, which doesn't work, I have an internal and external hard drive. When hooking up the external drive to the IIci, it looks like it's trying to boot from the external drive, could this be because it may have a higher SCSI ID than the IIci's internal drive? Should I try to reset the internal drives SCSI jumpers to a higher ID? I don't know what the external drive is set to (old CAi external w/software scsi control). Can I put my old IIcx internal drive in the IIci and boot from it? I wasn't sure if the two machines are close enough for System 7 to be able to run properly? Thanks!! My experience has been that when the Mac tries to boot with SCSI drives with duplicate ID's, it just hangs - it won't go to the flashing question mark. The SCSI bus doesn't know what to do when the Mac queries it since more than one device will respond. Since apparently you have no way to adjust the ID of the external drive, change the internal drive to anything except ID 7 by adding a jumper to change it to 1-6. ID 6 has always seemed safe to me (but that'll require two jumpers). Then use the startup disk control panel to select your boot drive. I too have a IIci and have had this problem when testing old drives. Rick -- Vintage Macs is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Enter To Win A | -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299 | Free iBook! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html Vintage Macs list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/vintagemacs.shtml -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:vintage.macs@mail.maclaunch.com To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/vintage.macs%40mail.maclaunch.com/ iPod Accessories for Less at 1-800-iPOD.COM Fast Delivery, Low Price, Good Deal www.1800ipod.com
Re: Mac IIci / Hard Drive Questions
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 11:58:42 -0600 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on 11/14/05 7:41 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: internal drives SCSI jumpers to a higher ID? I don't know what the external drive is set to (old CAi external w/software scsi control). I have seen options for setting the SCSI ID using software, however, I think that only works with drives which have the option built into their firmware, and that was (I believe) limited to certain Quantum drives. I would be sure to set that drive's SCSI ID using a good old fashioned jumper. My experience has been that when the Mac tries to boot with SCSI drives with duplicate ID's, it just hangs - it won't go to the flashing question mark. There are a couple of other possibilities which come up. Your experience is probably the most common, however, duplicated SCSI IDs sometimes cause one of the disks to appear about 8 times on the desktop. That's the wierdest. Another possibility is that one of the two disks appears and the other doesn't. Jeff Walther -- Vintage Macs is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Enter To Win A | -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299 | Free iBook! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html Vintage Macs list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/vintagemacs.shtml -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:vintage.macs@mail.maclaunch.com To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/vintage.macs%40mail.maclaunch.com/ iPod Accessories for Less at 1-800-iPOD.COM Fast Delivery, Low Price, Good Deal www.1800ipod.com
Re: Mac IIci / Hard Drive Questions
on 11/14/05 4:35 PM, Jeff Walther at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 11:58:42 -0600 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on 11/14/05 7:41 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: internal drives SCSI jumpers to a higher ID? I don't know what the external drive is set to (old CAi external w/software scsi control). I have seen options for setting the SCSI ID using software, however, I think that only works with drives which have the option built into their firmware, and that was (I believe) limited to certain Quantum drives. I would be sure to set that drive's SCSI ID using a good old fashioned jumper. I agree. Using the switches on the back of an external enclosure or trying to set an ID via software is no substitute for setting the jumpers manually. My experience has been that when the Mac tries to boot with SCSI drives with duplicate ID's, it just hangs - it won't go to the flashing question mark. There are a couple of other possibilities which come up. Your experience is probably the most common, however, duplicated SCSI IDs sometimes cause one of the disks to appear about 8 times on the desktop. That's the wierdest. Another possibility is that one of the two disks appears and the other doesn't. Jeff Walther In more than 20 years of dealing with SCSI I've never seen that. Wild! I did a little SCSI before I met a Mac - I once designed a fully-populated triple-wide VME Eurocard SCSI controller for a Navy SONAR system with TTL and PAL components only to have a NCR single-chip solution released within days after getting the board working and sent off to production. Damn, I'm showing my age. Rick -- Vintage Macs is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Enter To Win A | -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299 | Free iBook! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html Vintage Macs list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/vintagemacs.shtml -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:vintage.macs@mail.maclaunch.com To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/vintage.macs%40mail.maclaunch.com/ iPod Accessories for Less at 1-800-iPOD.COM Fast Delivery, Low Price, Good Deal www.1800ipod.com
Re: Mac IIci / Hard Drive Questions
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hmmm...when I boot from the internal HD in the IIci by itself, everything works great. When I plug in the external HD and try to boot, I get the Mac with the ? in it upon boot. Could this be the two drives set to the same ID? Could be, especially if the external was used to boot a Plus or SE or SE/30 that was sold without an internal drive. I also read I can try cmd-opt-shift-delete-(#) to boot from a specific SCSI ID... You have to use the top row number keys. The number pad keys on an extended keyboard do not work for that. Leaving off the number will cause it to search all SCSI devices in ascending order, booting off the first bootable device it finds that isn't set to ID #0. It will be total Fandemonium! August (Fri) 4th, (Sat) 5th (Sun) 6th, 2006 http://www.fandemonium.org __ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com -- Vintage Macs is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Enter To Win A | -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299 | Free iBook! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html Vintage Macs list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/vintagemacs.shtml -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:vintage.macs@mail.maclaunch.com To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/vintage.macs%40mail.maclaunch.com/ iPod Accessories for Less at 1-800-iPOD.COM Fast Delivery, Low Price, Good Deal www.1800ipod.com
