Re: [Vo]:HiPER Fusion
Howdy Jones, I have been reading this thread with interest. We believe a vortex configuration whereas the center funnel can be formed or shaped into a series of several hourglass stages, progressively larger toward the top, may add much. It may be possible to configure these hourglass shapes using magnets. We are working on it but have yet to produce one in the test tank. A keen observer of vids of tornadoes can occasionally see several of these hourglasses in the funnel. It is interesting that these particular funnels are the the one's that create inner funnel lightning. The vids show an occasional inner lighting effect. Strange and wonderful stuff.. Fun stuff. Richard Jones wrote, Magnetization might help.
[Vo]:Another Mars move
Here is a movie made from NASA Phoenix Sol 132 photos. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhyCh1BlNsI http://tinyurl.com/4phxrs It is not very exciting. Hard to tell exactly what the motion is from. Nothing definitively bug-like visible. Again, the subject is located on a magnetic substrate (I think.) All photos were in green. Stage position 5411. Sample photo located here: http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu/images.php?gID=38681cID=341 Best regards, Horace Heffner http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/
Re: [Vo]:Black Holes from Newtonian Gravity?
So you would predict polar jets from black holes without accretions disks, i.e. without a convenient source of matter. Well, maybe. BTW, I have found a (possibly plausible?) reason why matter falling from the internal edge of the accretion disk, missed and slingshot-accelerated by the BH, would form near light speed velocity polar beams: the part of that matter ejected beyond a certain angle from the polar directions, and-or with insufficient velocity, would fall back onto the massive and dense accretion disk because of insufficient vertical component of the ejection velocity. Michel 2008/10/11 Horace Heffner [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Oct 4, 2008, at 4:55 PM, Robin van Spaandonk wrote: In reply to Michel Jullian's message of Sat, 4 Oct 2008 08:12:26 +0200: Hi, [snip] As I recall, those jets are satisfactorily explained without resorting to matter creation. The jets' matter comes from the internal edge of the accretion disk orbiting around the BH and failing to fall into it (slingshot effect I believe) Michel That seems a little odd to me. Why would it all be axial? I would expect at least some mass (if not all of it) subject to a slingshot effect to remain in the plane of the accretion disk. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk [EMAIL PROTECTED] The formation of jets from very large black holes is easy to understand within the context of my Gravimagnetic Theory: http://mtaonline.net/~hheffner/FullGravimag.pdf http://tinyurl.com/46lzvl There are two fairly unique elements of my theory that make this possible: (1) black holes of a sufficient mass create mirror mater with negative gravitational charge, dark matter, from the vacuum and eject it with a velocity (spectrum) characteristic of the mass of the black hole and the distance from the black hole that mass is created (a range of such distances thus providing a velocity spectrum) and (2) virtual particles carry no mass charge, thus black holes carry powerful magnetic fields that have effects that cross the Swartzchild radius. From the simultaneous existence of these two features it is clear a jet will necessarily form due to both the EM Lorentz force and the gravimagnetic Lorentz force focusing and compressing any radially moving mirror matter into a polar jet. It is further notable that no accretion disk is necessary to maintain the jet. This might help explain the uniformity of the power, velocity spectrum, and directional orientation of the jets over long periods, which is not likely from an accretion disk which would statistically be expected to be highly variable in accretion rate. The mutually caused precession of nearby black holes plus the gravimagnetic effect of the gravimagnetic Lorentz force of isolated black holes further explains the 3D warping of the jets even at long distances, as well as the strange shape of galactic arms (known as the galaxy rotation problem) as well as why the MOND equation of gravity fits as a solution to this problem. My theory predicts that at some point (1) a black hole with jets will be found with no accretion disk, (2) an extreme magnetic field will be found surrounding a black hole with no accretion disk, and of related but more interest to some (3) the rotational slowing of interacting black holes will be found to be due to EM quadrupole radiation and not the gravitational quadrupole radiation predicted by GR and (4) space warping gravitational waves will not be found to exist while ELF waves of a similar shape and frequency will be found to be issued by colliding black holes and to already have long been recorded in the ELF wave records presently taken at many stations. Best regards, Horace Heffner http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/
[Vo]:sorry statte of affairs
I watched the lecture on the crystalline state of water, following that I sent the following letter to Dr. Pollack, and received the following reply. His comments in the lecture, and his reply speaks volumes about the sorry state of the World's Science. On Oct 9, 2008, at 9:07 PM, thomas malloy wrote: Dear Dr. Pollack; I post on Vortex-L, scientific anomalies. One of the Vortexians posted your lecture on water. I'm researching cohering the zero point energy or aether. The field called torsion field physics seems to by quite promising. Various researchers have reported the formation of a crystalline form of water when you put it in a pyramid, place it in proximity of crystals, and run it through a vortex shaped pipe. I would suggest caution on publishing the results of research into any of the above areas. I received the following reply Hi Thomas, Thanks much for your warning. I'm unfamiliar with this field. On the other hand, I am familiar with the work of Victor Schauberger, a half century back, who was fascinated by vortices in water, and claimed that they were responsible for producing live water from dead water. His various other successes lend a note of credibility to his thinking. Anyway, I'll certainly heed your warning. Best wishes, Jerry --- Get FREE High Speed Internet from USFamily.Net! -- http://www.usfamily.net/mkt-freepromo.html ---
Re: [Vo]:Another Mars move
any idea of the scale of the image? harry - Original Message - From: Horace Heffner [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Saturday, October 11, 2008 8:25 am Subject: [Vo]:Another Mars move Here is a movie made from NASA Phoenix Sol 132 photos. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhyCh1BlNsI http://tinyurl.com/4phxrs It is not very exciting. Hard to tell exactly what the motion is from. Nothing definitively bug-like visible. Again, the subject is located on a magnetic substrate (I think.) All photos were in green. Stage position 5411. Sample photo located here: http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu/images.php?gID=38681cID=341 Best regards, Horace Heffner http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/
Re: [Vo]:Another Mars move
On Oct 11, 2008, at 6:27 AM, Harry Veeder wrote: any idea of the scale of the image? harry Yes - about 1 mm by 2 mm. http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu/science_meca.php http://tinyurl.com/3mpel3 Best regards, Horace Heffner http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/
Re: [Vo]:Another Mars move
On Oct 11, 2008, at 6:27 AM, Harry Veeder wrote: any idea of the scale of the image? harry The scale is 3.91 microns/pixel. Best regards, Horace Heffner http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/
Re: [Vo]:Black Holes from Newtonian Gravity?
On Oct 11, 2008, at 3:13 AM, Michel Jullian wrote: So you would predict polar jets from black holes without accretions disks, i.e. without a convenient source of matter. Well, maybe. Yes, maybe, but if my theory is correct then definitely. Also, conversely, if not true then my theory is wrong. Unfortunately this is another case where absence of proof is not proof of absence (of the existence of such isolated black holes of sufficient mass to support jets.) There is also the problem that the jets from an *ordinary* mass black hole, being made of mirror matter, can not be seen unless there is enough ordinary matter in the vicinity to be illuminated by the jets via the low mirror matter coupling constant. OTOH, a negative mass mirror matter black hole of sufficient (absolute) mass will issue ordinary matter jets, but can't be expected to be found in our vicinity due to its negative mass, and thus highly repulsive characteristic which likely assures it long accelerated away from here. I wrote: ... (1) black holes of a sufficient mass create mirror mater with negative gravitational charge, dark matter, from the vacuum and eject it with a velocity (spectrum) characteristic of the mass of the black hole and the distance from the black hole that mass is created (a range of such distances thus providing a velocity spectrum) To be more clear about that, the distance from the black hole is very small, and well within the Swartzchild radius, and actually should have been specified as the distance to the center of the black hole . This distance can very small due to the requirement for the gravitational field there to be strong enough to separate charged particle pairs created by vacuum fluctuations. This process then accelerates the particles having mass charge of sign opposed to that of the black hole away from the black hole. Since such particles are created *inside* the Swartzchild radius, their velocity at some distance from the black hole should be close to c, and the mass very large, even if the source particles were mere electrons or positrons. This is due to the fact that the same mass charge matter escape velocity for radii inside the Swartzchild radius is greater than c. Opposed mass charge matter has a potential energy equivalent to the gravitationally imparted kinetic energy of same mass particles at any given radius. This is complicated by the fact there is enough energy in the beam to create both negative and positive mass charge particles via collisions in the beam, and thus a reverse flux back into the black hole that slows the beam and illuminates it. (I think.) BTW, I have found a (possibly plausible?) reason why matter falling from the internal edge of the accretion disk, missed and slingshot-accelerated by the BH, would form near light speed velocity polar beams: the part of that matter ejected beyond a certain angle from the polar directions, and-or with insufficient velocity, would fall back onto the massive and dense accretion disk because of insufficient vertical component of the ejection velocity. Michel It seems to me this reasoning, that the velocity would be near c, within the GR framework, applies to the initial (low radius) speed of any particles, both those in the beam that escape and those that don't manage to escape. In all cases the initial speed will be near c for any particles that are initially located near the Swartzchild radius, both normal and slingshot accelerated. However, the particles that escape carry the *difference* in energy corresponding to the differences in distance from the black hole. Therefore, the energy spectrum for escaped particles should be very broad in this model, and not necessarily or even probably bunched near c, due to the large energy loss climbing away from the black hole (because the escape velocity near the Swartzchild surface is near c) and due to the thermalization of such particles due to their interaction near the black hole. Best regards, Horace Heffner http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/
Re: [Vo]:HiPER Fusion
In reply to R C Macaulay's message of Fri, 10 Oct 2008 16:47:43 -0500: Hi Richard, Maybe real tornadoes do this when they suck something up with a difference consistency (e.g. pass over a pool). If so, then you may not have much luck recreating the effect with a vortex in pure water. Howdy Jones, I have been reading this thread with interest. We believe a vortex configuration whereas the center funnel can be formed or shaped into a series of several hourglass stages, progressively larger toward the top, may add much. It may be possible to configure these hourglass shapes using magnets. We are working on it but have yet to produce one in the test tank. A keen observer of vids of tornadoes can occasionally see several of these hourglasses in the funnel. It is interesting that these particular funnels are the the one's that create inner funnel lightning. The vids show an occasional inner lighting effect. Strange and wonderful stuff.. Fun stuff. Richard Jones wrote, Magnetization might help. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Vo]:Black Holes from Newtonian Gravity?
In reply to Michel Jullian's message of Sat, 11 Oct 2008 13:13:17 +0200: Hi, [snip] BTW, I have found a (possibly plausible?) reason why matter falling from the internal edge of the accretion disk, missed and slingshot-accelerated by the BH, would form near light speed velocity polar beams: the part of that matter ejected beyond a certain angle from the polar directions, and-or with insufficient velocity, would fall back onto the massive and dense accretion disk because of insufficient vertical component of the ejection velocity. ...but the gravitational field is supposed to be radial, not directed toward the accretion disk. IOW the polar directions are not vertical, and angle should have no bearing. (The word vertical implies parallel with the direction of maximum gradient in the gravitational field). Regards, Robin van Spaandonk [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Vo]:Gel-Power
The Pollack Lecture made interesting mention of jello as a form of structured water. ... hope that taking the suggestion to the next step (in alternative energy) does not give you the uncontrollable jiggles, but here it is - cough, cough ... fuel-grade-jello ... aka FGJ g Although my first intention here was to add a dash of humor, the fact that jello is a form of structured water; and the added fact that there is some energy content in structure itself (in the generic sense) may lead one to believe that there could be something to it. Now gelatin is composed of colloidal proteins which form interconnected open cross-linked chains in the gel, which is 95% water. The water itself becomes structured secondarily into EZ-water from the close contact to the proteins and cannot leak out so that indicates that there is some amount of structural energy. The structure requires hot water to first denature the proteins, after which they reform as a semisolid colloidal suspension. Is there a hidden source of energy here, over and above the hot water? Certainly not if eaten ... as it is a dieters favorite fake-food - but is it worth a try to recapture the organizational-energy in a more rapid discharge? I think yes. In fact, if there was available a Graneau type of discharge apparatus, I would at least compare the results of a gel, of a given mass, to regular water of the identical mass. Although, in keeping with earlier postings on entropic explosion I firmly believe that some energy can be gotten without concomitant heat: http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg15977.html Therefore one should look beyond just excess heat to ISP. ... and before Terry has time to traverse the universe of infinite improbability on this wild idea - yes, I should add that this concept might lead up the Jell-O Brick Road of alternative energy ;-) Jones
Re: [Vo]:Black Holes from Newtonian Gravity?
The gravitational field of the Black Hole itself is indeed radial, but that of the whole system can be essentially perpendicular to the disk if the accretion disk's mass is orders of magnitude higher than that of the Black Hole's, which was my (possibly ludicrous) hypothesis. There may be other problems with my simplistic suggestion, such as the fact that it would imply a broader than observed spectrum of velocities in the jet as pointed out by Horace (whose theory BTW I can't comment on, having not studied it in any detail for lack of time and skill) Michel 2008/10/11 Robin van Spaandonk [EMAIL PROTECTED]: In reply to Michel Jullian's message of Sat, 11 Oct 2008 13:13:17 +0200: Hi, [snip] BTW, I have found a (possibly plausible?) reason why matter falling from the internal edge of the accretion disk, missed and slingshot-accelerated by the BH, would form near light speed velocity polar beams: the part of that matter ejected beyond a certain angle from the polar directions, and-or with insufficient velocity, would fall back onto the massive and dense accretion disk because of insufficient vertical component of the ejection velocity. ...but the gravitational field is supposed to be radial, not directed toward the accretion disk. IOW the polar directions are not vertical, and angle should have no bearing. (The word vertical implies parallel with the direction of maximum gradient in the gravitational field). Regards, Robin van Spaandonk [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Vo]:Black Holes from Newtonian Gravity?
In reply to Michel Jullian's message of Sun, 12 Oct 2008 00:34:39 +0200: Hi, I haven't actually worked it out, but I don't even think that the gravitational field of a massive disc would be perpendicular to the disk, but probably directed more toward the center, and I suspect exactly at the center. The gravitational field of the Black Hole itself is indeed radial, but that of the whole system can be essentially perpendicular to the disk if the accretion disk's mass is orders of magnitude higher than that of the Black Hole's, which was my (possibly ludicrous) hypothesis. There may be other problems with my simplistic suggestion, such as the fact that it would imply a broader than observed spectrum of velocities in the jet as pointed out by Horace (whose theory BTW I can't comment on, having not studied it in any detail for lack of time and skill) Michel [snip] Regards, Robin van Spaandonk [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Vo]:Gel-Power
I'll take whipped cream on mine... laugh at whipped cream.. BUT..think again. What happens? What should happen is butter but with sufficent air.. the liquid heavy cream becomes structured. This thought leads to a fascinating idea for a nano-particle jell for fire supression where the liquid is projected toward a fire, it jells on impact thus suppressing oxygen and also timed to return to liquid state. A projectile containing a liter of this liquid could fill up a 40ft cube with fire suppressant ( better than aerogel) Aim this projectile from a drone copter at a high rise building window and pull the trigger.. shazzaam.. no more question of high rise building collapses due to heat.. hmm. come to think of it.. we do not have a practical high rise fire fighting system.. let it burn and use the site for a memorial. Richard The Pollack Lecture made interesting mention of jello as a form of structured water. ... hope that taking the suggestion to the next step (in alternative energy) does not give you the uncontrollable jiggles, but here it is - cough, cough ... fuel-grade-jello ... aka FGJ g Although my first intention here was to add a dash of humor, the fact that jello is a form of structured water; and the added fact that there is some energy content in structure itself (in the generic sense) may lead one to believe that there could be something to it. Now gelatin is composed of colloidal proteins which form interconnected open cross-linked chains in the gel, which is 95% water. The water itself becomes structured secondarily into EZ-water from the close contact to the proteins and cannot leak out so that indicates that there is some amount of structural energy. The structure requires hot water to first denature the proteins, after which they reform as a semisolid colloidal suspension. Is there a hidden source of energy here, over and above the hot water? Certainly not if eaten ... as it is a dieters favorite fake-food - but is it worth a try to recapture the organizational-energy in a more rapid discharge? I think yes. In fact, if there was available a Graneau type of discharge apparatus, I would at least compare the results of a gel, of a given mass, to regular water of the identical mass. Although, in keeping with earlier postings on entropic explosion I firmly believe that some energy can be gotten without concomitant heat: http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg15977.html Therefore one should look beyond just excess heat to ISP. ... and before Terry has time to traverse the universe of infinite improbability on this wild idea - yes, I should add that this concept might lead up the Jell-O Brick Road of alternative energy ;-) Jones No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.173 / Virus Database: 270.8.0/1719 - Release Date: 10/10/2008 4:08 PM
Re: [Vo]:HiPER Fusion
Howdy Robin, Some several years back Professor Youds of London website showed a test setup that described an experiment using a high speed blower fan that inducted air into a cone creating a vortex. He claimed the vortex produced a reverse vortex at the face of the blower fan blade when he used a cup shaped enhancer. His claim was the inner reverse vortex produced measurable light in the gamma range when the VFD driven motor was running the fan blade at 7225 RPM. An all air, no water. We tried duplicating this experiment with no results. However, during one of hundreds of tests in water on various configurations of high speed distributors, we were able to produce this elusive inner reverse vortex visible in the tank of clear water. This event happened during a test at our standard 3450 RPM motor speed. Set it aside for another day. We suspect this reverse vortex may play a role in tornado produced lightning events. It may just be dust drawn into the tornado.. but.. we don't know.. like most science.. as Jones often pens.. we often spend money and time in reseach of elusive themes when we have so much natural science waiting to study. Richard Robin wrote, In reply to R C Macaulay's message of Fri, 10 Oct 2008 16:47:43 -0500: Hi Richard, Maybe real tornadoes do this when they suck something up with a difference consistency (e.g. pass over a pool). If so, then you may not have much luck recreating the effect with a vortex in pure water. Howdy Jones, I have been reading this thread with interest. We believe a vortex configuration whereas the center funnel can be formed or shaped into a series of several hourglass stages, progressively larger toward the top, may add much. It may be possible to configure these hourglass shapes using magnets. We are working on it but have yet to produce one in the test tank. A keen observer of vids of tornadoes can occasionally see several of these hourglasses in the funnel. It is interesting that these particular funnels are the the one's that create inner funnel lightning. The vids show an occasional inner lighting effect. Strange and wonderful stuff.. Fun stuff. Richard Jones wrote, Magnetization might help. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk [EMAIL PROTECTED] No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.173 / Virus Database: 270.8.0/1719 - Release Date: 10/10/2008 4:08 PM
Re: [Vo]:Black Holes from Newtonian Gravity?
On Oct 11, 2008, at 3:17 PM, Robin van Spaandonk wrote: In reply to Michel Jullian's message of Sun, 12 Oct 2008 00:34:39 +0200: Hi, I haven't actually worked it out, but I don't even think that the gravitational field of a massive disc would be perpendicular to the disk, but probably directed more toward the center, and I suspect exactly at the center. In close proximity to a mass plane having planar mass density rho the gravitational field is given by gravimagnetic theory to be: g = a rho/(2 * epsilon_0_g) where a is a unit vector normal to and directed toward the plane for positive rho, away for negative rho, where rho is mass density (say in i kg/m^2), and epsilon_0_g is given by: epsilon_0_g = 1/(4 Pi G) = 1.192299(31)x109 kg s^2/m^3 as specified on Table 2, on Page 11 of: http://mtaonline.net/~hheffner/FullGravimag.pdf. This is because the electric field about an infinite plane of uniform charge is given by: E = a rho/(2 * epsilon_0) so it is just a matter of applying the gravimagnetic isomorphism to obtain the result. In both formulations rho includes the sign of charge, and in the case of mass also includes the imaginary number i = (-1)^(1/2). So, I think Michel is correct in his assertion with regards to the field in the space near the plane resulting from the mass in the plane. GR considerations, like frame dragging from a high mass rotating plane, are beyond me. However, some close enough approximations may be had by looking at the gravimagnetics of the fields for spinning bodies. Of course the field of the black hole itself has to be superpositioned to get a complete picture. Beyond this, my theory predicts a massive magnetic field from the quark soup of a black hole, even a black hole singularity, if such can exist, which is proportional to the mass of the black hole, and this field overwhelms gravimagnetic forces for interacting black holes or even black holes acting on ionized accretion disks. Best regards, Horace Heffner http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/
