Re: [Vo]:Nasa announce: astrobio discovery
On Fri, Dec 3, 2010 at 2:08 AM, Peter Gluck peter.gl...@gmail.com wrote: These bacteria gourmets are eating arsenic, OK! I have some doubts re fluorine and chlorine, but I am open to the facts. What wasn't clear in the press release but is in the detailed article: http://www.astrobio.net/exclusive/3698/thriving-on-arsenic is that the organism successfully created it's DNA backbone, the sides of the DNA ladder with arsenic. If there is something to eat, life appears immediately. You might find this amusing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaFZTAOb7IE T
Re: [Vo]:Nasa announce: astrobio discovery
Thanks Terry, what is disturbing: we a;ready knew about this- Lake Mono and more arsenic eating bacteria species see e.g. Discovery Channel, Aug 14, 2008. In my opinion, Mesenchytraeus solifugus- the Alaskan ice worm is even stranger and typical for understanding the essence of life conquering and eating. Actually P and As are similar elnments, si replacing one with the other is no great trick. Toxicity is not in an element per se, but in the cell(s) of the eater. On Fri, Dec 3, 2010 at 3:16 PM, Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Dec 3, 2010 at 2:08 AM, Peter Gluck peter.gl...@gmail.com wrote: These bacteria gourmets are eating arsenic, OK! I have some doubts re fluorine and chlorine, but I am open to the facts. What wasn't clear in the press release but is in the detailed article: http://www.astrobio.net/exclusive/3698/thriving-on-arsenic is that the organism successfully created it's DNA backbone, the sides of the DNA ladder with arsenic. If there is something to eat, life appears immediately. You might find this amusing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaFZTAOb7IE T
[Vo]:Feature or flaw?
.Humbled by chidrens mouthwash! I couldn't get the mouthwash to pour into my cup - a tube and seal in the container kept the liquid trapped every time I tried to pout it! unintentionally I squeezed the plastic bottle while picking it up and saw the liquid start to fill the throat of the bottle - Perhaps I should re-examine my life for similar anti spill features instead of always assuming a flaw? .Fran
Re: [Vo]:Feature or flaw?
Fran sez: · Humbled by chidrens mouthwash! I couldn't get the mouthwash to pour into my cup - a tube and seal in the container kept the liquid trapped every time I tried to pout it! unintentionally I squeezed the plastic bottle while picking it up and saw the liquid start to fill the throat of the bottle - Perhaps I should re-examine my life for similar anti spill features instead of always assuming a flaw? FWIW, I have a similar beef with the folks who designed apple sauce jars. For some asinine reason the screw off necks are inappropriately narrow making it nearly impossible to extract the last portions of sauce tenaciously clinging to the sides of the jar. A rubber spatula helps, but it's a messy dirty job any way you tackle it. A more appropriate design had long ago been successfully incorporated into the shape used in products like peanut butter jars, which are made out of plastic by the way. Peanut butter screw-top openings ARE the diameter of the top of the jar. No narrowing of the bottleneck. Therefore, absolutely no bottleneck problems extracting the last molecules of butter out of those plastic containers. I suspect it's an issue where the apple sauce product review board has simply not cared to ask its customers what they think about the shape of the antiquated jars. I think they need an uppity young lad fresh out of design school versed in the techniques of 3D modeling software, like RHINO, to shake things up a bit. Alas, I'm afraid the old guard will have to retire first before a brave new paradigm consisting of wide lids can be introduced. ;-) Thanks for the story, Fran. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
RE: [Vo]:Quantum Transitional State
Here's another way to use Vt in a prediction. Because it looks as though Vt can be used to derive Planck's Constant, then use Planck's Constant to calculate a very accurate Vt. I don't know how accurate these other variables have been measured, but presumably, they are far past the 4 significant digits of Vt. So, by back-calculating Vt, we can then use it to predict the effective radii of protons in the nucleus, which is the variable that seems to be the least certain. Then we just need another experiment to more accurately determine the effective radii of protons while in the nucleus. E = (Q^2 / (4 * e0 * Vt)) * f E = h * f (This is Einstein's Photo-Electric Equation) h = Planck's Constant Solving backwards for a better Vt = Q^2 / (4 * e0 * Vt) = h Q = charge of a proton = 1.602176487*10^−19 Coulombs e0 = permittivity of free space = 8.854187817*10^−12 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vacuum_permittivity) 4 * e0 * Vt = Q^2 / h Vt = Q^2 / (h * 4 * e0) Vt = (1.602176487e-19)^2 / (4 * 8.854187817e-12 * 6.62606896e-34) = 1,093,845.63 Craig
Re: [Vo]:Feature or flaw?
Some peanut butter jars dont do that... on the original post, I am familiar with the bottle design. The top cup has little measuring marks, and the instructions on the bottle clearly tell you what to do. Remember, RTFM! On Fri, Dec 3, 2010 at 8:22 AM, OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson svj.orionwo...@gmail.com wrote: Fran sez: · Humbled by chidrens mouthwash! I couldn't get the mouthwash to pour into my cup - a tube and seal in the container kept the liquid trapped every time I tried to pout it! unintentionally I squeezed the plastic bottle while picking it up and saw the liquid start to fill the throat of the bottle - Perhaps I should re-examine my life for similar anti spill features instead of always assuming a flaw? FWIW, I have a similar beef with the folks who designed apple sauce jars. For some asinine reason the screw off necks are inappropriately narrow making it nearly impossible to extract the last portions of sauce tenaciously clinging to the sides of the jar. A rubber spatula helps, but it's a messy dirty job any way you tackle it. A more appropriate design had long ago been successfully incorporated into the shape used in products like peanut butter jars, which are made out of plastic by the way. Peanut butter screw-top openings ARE the diameter of the top of the jar. No narrowing of the bottleneck. Therefore, absolutely no bottleneck problems extracting the last molecules of butter out of those plastic containers. I suspect it's an issue where the apple sauce product review board has simply not cared to ask its customers what they think about the shape of the antiquated jars. I think they need an uppity young lad fresh out of design school versed in the techniques of 3D modeling software, like RHINO, to shake things up a bit. Alas, I'm afraid the old guard will have to retire first before a brave new paradigm consisting of wide lids can be introduced. ;-) Thanks for the story, Fran. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
RE: [Vo]:Quantum Transitional State
-Original Message- From: Craig Haynie by back-calculating Vt, we can then use it to predict the effective radii of protons in the nucleus, which is the variable that seems to be the least certain. Craig, as you no doubt have noticed in this exercise, the proton radius has been a stumbling block for a certain controversial alternative theory. There is a known value for the proton radius, but it does NOT work for the house-of-cards theory, and therefore a fictional radius has been invented which is much larger than the known value. To justify using such a radius, the inventor must resort to finding an argument whereby the nucleus can appear to be much larger - voila: string theory and sound vibrations, which arguably push the radius into size range where the numbers finally work. Thus everything now seems to mesh, when this fiction is applied ... if that is - you can suspend disbelief and overlook the details of the derivation. Of course, all of this machination is (arguably) done in support of a particular constant - which can appear as a velocity, but which essentially has little validity in actual experiment, when you look a bit closer. If there was some baseline validity in experiment - then the liberties taken with the proton radius would be a bit easier to swallow. Jones
RE: [Vo]:Quantum Transitional State
On Fri, 2010-12-03 at 09:23 -0800, Jones Beene wrote: OK, let's backtrack. Apparently we are not on the same page yet. In the spirit of KISS and simplicity, the internationally-accepted value of the proton's charge radius is 0.8768 fm. Is there a valid reason to use anything else? If Vt is going to have any relevance as a general constant, it must apply to hydrogen. Most of the visible universe is hydrogen, so why should we worry about higher Z nuclei for a general quantum theory ... unless, of course, it is to accommodate a strange hypothesis, where only higher values work? ... and as a general observation, recent findings suggest the radius value will be going down, not up. http://articles.latimes.com/2010/jul/07/science/la-sci-proton-20100708 Good point, but what they found in that study from 1987, is that the density of all nuclei are the same. So if Vt applies, then the value to use might be 1.36e-15 for all nuclei -- unless you wanted to make an exception for hydrogen. However, it looks to me as if they are calculating the value of 1.36e-15 as the effective proton radius, using Planck's Constant. http://tinyurl.com/345cnr9 If anyone wants to help me read it, scroll down to Microscopic analysis of nucleus-nucleus elastic scattering at intermediate energies, and open the PDF. Search for 1.36. So this means that Planck's Constant can't be derived from Vt if Vt was derived from Planck's Constant. Craig
RE: [Vo]:Quantum Transitional State
However, it looks to me as if they are calculating the value of 1.36e-15 as the effective proton radius, using Planck's Constant. http://tinyurl.com/345cnr9 If anyone wants to help me read it, scroll down to Microscopic analysis of nucleus-nucleus elastic scattering at intermediate energies, and open the PDF. Search for 1.36. So this means that Planck's Constant can't be derived from Vt if Vt was derived from Planck's Constant. I need to backtrack. I was referencing the document that Znidarsic uses to determine spacing in the nucleus, but actually reading something else, again with the same 1.36e-15 value, where it was calculated using Planck's Constant. So the value that Frank is referencing does not appear to be derived from Planck's Constant. Sorry for the confusion. Jones Beene brings up a good point. Why would a compressional wave, calculated to work between nucleons in a nucleus, work in a single proton hydrogen atom? Then again why does Vt allow us to compute values without Planck's Constant? Just a coincidence? Craig
Re: [Vo]:Quantum Transitional State
On Fri, Dec 3, 2010 at 12:40 PM, Craig Haynie cchayniepub...@gmail.com wrote: http://tinyurl.com/345cnr9 If anyone wants to help me read it, scroll down to Microscopic analysis of nucleus-nucleus elastic scattering at intermediate energies, and open the PDF. Search for 1.36. The article is almost 9 euros. Can't you just share your copy? T
Re: [Vo]:Quantum Transitional State
The article is almost 9 euros. Can't you just share your copy? I'll send you my copy in my next email, but I don't know how to send it to the list. Otherwise, you can scroll down to it on this link, and open the PDF on the right side of the Google Scholar page. It's article number 4 on the page. Microscopic analysis of nucleus-nucleus elastic scattering at intermediate energies http://tinyurl.com/345cnr9 As odd as it sounds, Frank is using the maximum calculated force between two protons, and their effective spacing in the nucleus, to determine the speed of energy in the nucleus as if energy travels using a compressional wave. Right? So this equation doesn't really require the radius of a proton; but rather the separation value between protons in the nucleus, the hydrogen atom being the odd curiosity in this theory. Craig
RE: [Vo]:Quantum Transitional State
-Original Message- From: Craig Haynie Jones Beene brings up a good point. Why would a compressional wave, calculated to work between nucleons in a nucleus, work in a single proton hydrogen atom? It will not, and on this forum our main concern is energetic hydrogen reactions, and the transitions of hydrogen which may lead to nuclear reactions. I think you have now come around to understanding the very reason why the hypothesis in question is of little value to those in this field, and why I have spoken out against it. Unfortunately, it is too late to stop that runaway train of disinformation, due to the convincing quality of the videos. This is the downside of the internet. There will be a cult which arises thinking that some kind of conspiracy is out there which seeks to freeze out the truth, similar to what happened with Stan Meyer ... and the minions of this cult will no doubt consider me to be funded by Big Oil. (I wish ... :) Jones I still get hate mail from true believers for expressing the viewpoint years ago on Vo - that Meyer was not murdered, that he was a scammer who might have stumbled onto something out of blind luck, and that he was his own worst enemy not to develop it sensibly.
Re: [Vo]:Feature or flaw?
In reply to OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson's message of Fri, 3 Dec 2010 09:22:16 -0600: Hi, [snip] I suspect it's an issue where the apple sauce product review board has simply not cared to ask its customers what they think about the shape of the antiquated jars. I think they need an uppity young lad fresh out of design school versed in the techniques of 3D modeling software, like RHINO, to shake things up a bit. Alas, I'm afraid the old guard will have to retire first before a brave new paradigm consisting of wide lids can be introduced. ;-) [snip] ...if you can't get the last bit out of the jar, then you have to buy a new jar sooner Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/Project.html
RE: [Vo]:Feature or flaw?
I've pushed to put peanut butter in caulking gun cartridges for a while ( so I could just squirt some into my mouth ) ( via emails to e.g. Jif ), but to no avail :-( -Original Message- From: mix...@bigpond.com [mailto:mix...@bigpond.com] Sent: Friday, December 03, 2010 2:52 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Feature or flaw? In reply to OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson's message of Fri, 3 Dec 2010 09:22:16 -0600: Hi, [snip] I suspect it's an issue where the apple sauce product review board has simply not cared to ask its customers what they think about the shape of the antiquated jars. I think they need an uppity young lad fresh out of design school versed in the techniques of 3D modeling software, like RHINO, to shake things up a bit. Alas, I'm afraid the old guard will have to retire first before a brave new paradigm consisting of wide lids can be introduced. ;-) [snip] ...if you can't get the last bit out of the jar, then you have to buy a new jar sooner Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/Project.html
[Vo]:OT:Your brain on culture
Your brain on culture The burgeoning field of cultural neuroscience is finding that culture influences brain development, and perhaps vice versa. By Beth Azar http://www.apa.org/monitor/2010/11/neuroscience.aspx
Re: [Vo]:Quantum Transitional State
In reply to Jones Beene's message of Thu, 2 Dec 2010 14:32:16 -0800: Hi, [snip] Well, here is a direct quote from recent post a few months back (in which he claims that there is a fundamental speed of sound in the nucleus, no kidding): These ideas are large. I should get a Noble prize, however, they will be largely unnoticed. - Frank Znidarsic My apologies if this does not constitute arrogance, as it may only have been said out of frustration. After all, it must be very frustrating to speak to physicists about a speed of sound in the nucleus and wonder why you are getting a cold shoulder ... [snip] The speed of sound can be calculated using Hook's Law. The modulus of elasticity should be able to be calculated (roughly) based upon the binding force in the nucleus. If the distances between nucleons is always about the same in most nuclei, then I would expect the speed of sound to be at least roughly constant in all nuclei. However I fail to see why Frank chose to equate his constant with the speed of sound in the nucleus. Perhaps that's because I haven't studied his work sufficiently. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/Project.html
