Re: [Vo]:temperature of the resistor wire.
(Dave, my granddad is Bob, I'm Robert :) ), I would be over the moon if we had incontrovertible evidence of COP, but with a strong grounding in and respect for the scientific method you cannot and should not ever give bold assertions a free ride without vigorous critical review the skeptics of the world won't go any easier on him than I will. Which is what I am trying to provide, and unfortunately the harder I have looked at it and the more issues I have analysed the more likely it seems that the gain = 1 hypothesis is as strong as gain 1. Occams razor would then favour gain=1 rather than a collection of miraculously fortuitous LENR characteristics that include numerous transmutation pathways (fission and fusion of Ni and Li) without ionising radiation, or change in reaction rate as it goes from natural isotope ratios to essentially all Li6+Ni2, But my suspicions really shot through the roof after reading that Rossi bought 99% Ni62 from a commercial supplier at one point - and that is why I decided to look so hard at the physical attributes of the device (thermodynamics/hightemp materials are my forte) - to see whether it was thermodynamically unabiguous that there was gain 1. The needless ambiguity of the test raises my ire, that the power input is so clumsily measured when it would be so easy to use series resistors, triac switched single phase AC, PWM DC power supply or etc with the same electromagnetic effects within the reactor. Rossi with his resources could get someone to make such an unambiguous power supply/meter in a day - but as usual he has chosen the dark path of deliberate obfuscation. Likewise with the lack of thermocouples or proper flow calorimetry - so easy when the COP and power output are large. But back to the physical problems: -The major red flag is that of inconel heating wire temp being necessarily 1300-1350°C (and realistically probably lower) while thermography is claiming 1412°C surface temps screams out that there is a massive error in the calorimetry, rendering the claims of gain meaningless unless or until that error can be explained satisfactorily. Hopeful theories about refractories wires etc just don't stand up to practical considerations (joining them to inconel that will anyway be melted at joint, forming these horribly brittle materials, keeping them away from air). -Knowing that the alumina is translucent also opens up so many possibilities for errors - and the translucence is unknown and unquantified for the material used over the range of temperatures and for the range of wavelengths of emitted light created by hot embedded wires - claims of it not being a problem don't hold water due to the above demonstrated/known error in the reactor temperature. We have no idea how much porosity it has, how thin it is, or what surface impurities might accumulate during long term high temperature operation to alter emissivity/translucence etc. -That I have identified a likely construction for the reactor that gives the visual results seen during testing (glowing wires wrapped around inner tube, but with minimal and variable contact quenching bought on by differential thermal expansion), all encased in outer shell), with no reactor gain only increases the strength of the gain=0 hypothesis. This could all be fixed easily by Rossi releasing more details of construction - even photos of cut-open reactor or just doing a proper independent black box test with good calorimetry. But as ever he is playing games due to paranoia, perverseness or worse motives. He could have made billions by now and the world would be massively better off if he wasn't persisting in his school-boy intrigues. On 16 October 2014 12:25, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote: Bob, you appear to be too convinced that the gain is unity and are going to great lengths to obtain that result. The testers are well respected scientists and no one should assume that they are so easily misslead. Besides, there are several measurements that support the fact that the COP is greater than unity which you seem to brush off. I wonder about whether or not the actual temperature is correct as well, but am in no position to prove one way or the other. The most important observation that supports the elevated COP is the slope of output power versus input power that they measure about their chosen operating point. I can think of no way to fake that measurement without a dose of true magic. And then it would be extremely difficult to understand why the measured behavior tends to follow what my simulation predicts. Dave -Original Message- From: Robert Lynn robert.gulliver.l...@gmail.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Wed, Oct 15, 2014 11:53 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:temperature of the resistor wire. Nullis in verba. :) I believe my eyes more than others words. In finding so many potential faults with so little published information (they had a month to investigate!!) I can
[Vo]:coherent perfect absorption
Just some food for Collective thought. as to why no dead grad students. Perfect energy-feeding into strongly coupled systems and interferometric control of polariton absorption http://www.nature.com/nphys/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/nphys3106.html Abstract The ability to drive a system with an external input is a fundamental aspect of light-matter interaction. The key concept in many photonic applications is the 'critical coupling' condition1, 2: at criticality, all the energy fed to the system is dissipated within the system itself. Although this idea was crucial to enhance the efficiency of many devices, it was never considered in the context of systems operating in a non-perturbative regime. In this so-called strong-coupling regime, the matter and light degrees of freedom are mixed into dressed states, leading to new eigenstates called polaritons3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10. Here we demonstrate that the strong-coupling regime and the critical coupling condition can coexist; [emphasis mine] in such a strong critical coupling situation, all the incoming energy is converted into polaritons. A general semiclassical theory reveals that such a situation corresponds to a special curve in the phase diagram of the coupled light-matter oscillators. In the case of a system with two radiating ports, the phenomenology shown is that of coherent perfect absorption (CPA; refs 11, 12), which is then naturally understood in the framework of critical coupling. Most importantly, we experimentally verify polaritonic CPA in a semiconductor-based intersubband-polariton photonic crystal resonator. This result opens new avenues in polariton physics, making it possible to control the pumping efficiency of a system independent of the energy exchange rate between the electromagnetic field and the material transition. -mark iverson
Re: [Vo]:temperature of the resistor wire.
Well I can argue that there is no excess heat - The thermography is proven to be wrong (inconel resistance wires melt at 1300-1350°C 1412°C surface reactor temp claimed, and wires would have to be much hotter than reactor surface). If there is little to no conductive contact between non-melting wires and outer shell then the outer shell is only around 1000°C and there is no excess heat - a sensible physical model given what we can see in photos, with cameras perhaps 'seeing' or being badly skewed by the radiative output+ different emissivity of the wires rather than the translucent alumina of unknown thickness, porosity and transmissivity in the wavelengths of interest. So with the thermography proven to be massively in error how do you know there was any excess heat? (There is also problems with the convective heat transfer, due to sitting above a hot surface though they are smaller in impact, just as radiative heat transfer might be slightly impacted by hot frame underneath but probably also minor). On 16 October 2014 13:02, H Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com wrote: You could explain the glow pattern with those assumptions but you would still need to explain away the excess heat. Harry On Wed, Oct 15, 2014 at 11:40 PM, Robert Lynn robert.gulliver.l...@gmail.com wrote: Not if it is touching the walls of inner or outer alumina tube in places, intermittent contact due to vagaries of original wire winding around inner tube and subsequent large differential thermal expansion so that the wire is quenched in some places but not in others. Would explain the variation in glow that we see (along with slight translucence of alumina tube), and would change as the wire gets hotter and relaxes pre-existing springiness that might otherwise hold the wire in contact with the inner tube - would lead to wire temperature increasing faster than power input would suggest - ie what we see with supposedly increasing COP. Most likely means of construction is winding wires around an inner tube, or winding them around a different mandrel and then slipping them over the tube. Bonding them to the inner tube is an extra step that (based on inconsistency/variability of surface glow) has likely not been done and for which their would be little initial motive anyway. And massive relative thermal expansion of the wire (~1%) would likely have cracked any ceramic bonding or attempts to rigidly encase the wires or bond them to the inner tube anyway. Differential thermal expansion means that the internal tube/vessel is likely only bonded to the thermocouple end cap, otherwise the external tube would be broken by axial stress due to differential thermal expansion of higher temperature of inner tube compared to external tube. On 16 October 2014 10:58, H Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com wrote: If the wire inside the reactor was hot enough to glow it should produce a more uniform spiral glow along the entire length of the tube. Harry On Wed, Oct 15, 2014 at 8:19 AM, Robert Lynn robert.gulliver.l...@gmail.com wrote: Additionally, look at the darkened photo, the wire exterior to the reactor sourrounded by cooler materials to radiate to are brighter than the bright wires in the reactor. Hard to believe it would be colder inside the reactor surrounded by relatively hotter materials that are harder to radiate to. I think that is pretty strong indication that it is the wires that are the bright areas. On 15 October 2014 20:14, Robert Lynn robert.gulliver.l...@gmail.com wrote: I am looking at high zoom at the same photos and finding it easy to draw the opposite conclusion. Confirmation bias on both our parts :) I think it is equivocal at best. On 15 October 2014 19:52, ChemE Stewart cheme...@gmail.com wrote: If you zoom in very closely on the hot reactor photos you can see the the dark lines are of uniform width, continuity and shade. I am 95% confident that is the shadow of the coil. The light areas change in brightness, width, etc. On Wed, Oct 15, 2014 at 3:56 AM, Robert Lynn robert.gulliver.l...@gmail.com wrote: how do you know this? How do you know the the wire is not the brightest area? On 15 October 2014 15:06, H Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com wrote: Some people suspect that the resistor wire can't be Inconel because they are predicted to melt at the reactor's operating temperature. However, since we know the resistor wire casts a shadow in the alumina, the temperature of the wire remains below the operating temperature and therefore can't melt. Harry
Re: [Vo]:Engineering and materials issues with high temperature hot-cat Lugano demo
If the LENR reaction suffers from thermal runaway then the best means for cooling is a coolant fluid slightly below the target temperature. Eg 1180°C coolant and 1200°C running temp so raising temp to 1240°C would then triple cooling rate, so 'clamping' the temperature. A lithium heat pipe would do this really well - vent at a controlled pressure to control the temp. The heater wires provide a crude and inefficient version of this for control purposes. If an oscillating magnetic field is required for excitation then that can be provided more efficiently without massive resistive losses. At 1200-1400°C a gas turbine would be ideal - with about 45% efficiency possible in compact device with no cooling water. Or 55+% with steam bottoming or CO2 or Helium recuperated Gas Turbine that are much more expensive. On 16 October 2014 13:32, Eric Walker eric.wal...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Oct 15, 2014 at 9:24 AM, Bob Higgins rj.bob.higg...@gmail.com wrote: I believe the large tubes on the end to be thermally insulating supports for the hot central 2 cm tube. A question that came to me was whether the alumina endcaps could be replaced with metal endcaps of a suitable alloy in the context of a larger array of devices, in order to provide a suitable path out for the heat to be used to generate steam. Another question I have is how much thermal load one of these devices can handle. Eric
Re: [Vo]:E-cat : Minimum COP assuming worst mistakes possible
the emissivity was used, it was not the blackbody equation but is not that the greybody equation (correct term?) ? anyway what have to be the sensitivity error to explain the apparent COP ? naively I assume that the emissivity during the calibration have to be much much higher than assumed and the one at 1400C much much lower than assumed, with a factor of 3.4+ ? if the reactor is a perfect blackbody at 1400C, it have to express an emissivity of 30% at calibration ? is it right analysis ? is it possible ? 2014-10-16 6:57 GMT+02:00 Eric Walker eric.wal...@gmail.com: On Wed, Oct 15, 2014 at 9:43 PM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote: It would be a miracle to find that the temperature exactly matched what is expected according to the Stephan-Boltzman equation. I get that the preconditions for the Stephan-Boltzman equation were not met, technically, since the device is not a blackbody (e.g., painted with black refractory coating) and that there is an error term that is being raised to the fourth power. My questions are: what are the implications? Would the Stephan-Boltzman equation provide a lower bound for the true power, or an upper bound, or something else? How far off would the Stephan-Boltzman equation be in practice? I get the sense that it would be a minor error term and that professionals in this field would not be too hesitant to use the equation in a context such as the Lugano test. I'm starting to wonder whether the emissivity problem is primarily an academic one. Eric
Re: [Vo]:Engineering and materials issues with high temperature hot-cat Lugano demo
I have a strong suspicion that the path of maximum heat transfer needs to be via radiation in order for the device to be stable. This is due to the forth order with temperature being able to win against a lower order power generation process. Dave -Original Message- From: Eric Walker eric.wal...@gmail.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Thu, Oct 16, 2014 1:32 am Subject: Re: [Vo]:Engineering and materials issues with high temperature hot-cat Lugano demo On Wed, Oct 15, 2014 at 9:24 AM, Bob Higgins rj.bob.higg...@gmail.com wrote: I believe the large tubes on the end to be thermally insulating supports for the hot central 2 cm tube. A question that came to me was whether the alumina endcaps could be replaced with metal endcaps of a suitable alloy in the context of a larger array of devices, in order to provide a suitable path out for the heat to be used to generate steam. Another question I have is how much thermal load one of these devices can handle. Eric
Re: [Vo]:temperature of the resistor wire.
Sorry Robert, I will make every attempt to use your correct name in the future. Thanks for clarifying your reasons for exhibiting the strong critical position against the report. I admit that I harbor questions about the accuracy of the temperature measurements for many of the reasons that you point out. To me the slope in COP with temperature and the particle analysis are strong indicators that the device is generating some type of nuclear power within its core. I can not honestly believe that Rossi would be attempting a scam as you seem to think...he risks far too much. One tiny slip and he is toast. I recall reading in his blog that Ni62 was the active element from a couple of years back. At that time he was talking of developing a process that enriched the raw material in order to achieve that goal. Could that have been what he thought was happening within his reactor at the time? That would explain why he bought some of that isotope for research. I give him the benefit of the doubt. The 3 phase power concern just does not hold water to me. Remember the device tested is not normally used in isolation, but instead is a part of a much larger system. Phase balancing is quite common when a large amount of power is required and I would likely have done exactly the same thing as Rossi. There are other reasons that I believe the test proves that power is generated within the core that I have covered previously and will not repeat at this time since it is late here. Dave -Original Message- From: Robert Lynn robert.gulliver.l...@gmail.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Thu, Oct 16, 2014 2:20 am Subject: Re: [Vo]:temperature of the resistor wire. (Dave, my granddad is Bob, I'm Robert :) ), I would be over the moon if we had incontrovertible evidence of COP, but with a strong grounding in and respect for the scientific method you cannot and should not ever give bold assertions a free ride without vigorous critical review the skeptics of the world won't go any easier on him than I will. Which is what I am trying to provide, and unfortunately the harder I have looked at it and the more issues I have analysed the more likely it seems that the gain = 1 hypothesis is as strong as gain 1. Occams razor would then favour gain=1 rather than a collection of miraculously fortuitous LENR characteristics that include numerous transmutation pathways (fission and fusion of Ni and Li) without ionising radiation, or change in reaction rate as it goes from natural isotope ratios to essentially all Li6+Ni2, But my suspicions really shot through the roof after reading that Rossi bought 99% Ni62 from a commercial supplier at one point - and that is why I decided to look so hard at the physical attributes of the device (thermodynamics/hightemp materials are my forte) - to see whether it was thermodynamically unabiguous that there was gain 1. The needless ambiguity of the test raises my ire, that the power input is so clumsily measured when it would be so easy to use series resistors, triac switched single phase AC, PWM DC power supply or etc with the same electromagnetic effects within the reactor. Rossi with his resources could get someone to make such an unambiguous power supply/meter in a day - but as usual he has chosen the dark path of deliberate obfuscation. Likewise with the lack of thermocouples or proper flow calorimetry - so easy when the COP and power output are large. But back to the physical problems: -The major red flag is that of inconel heating wire temp being necessarily 1300-1350°C (and realistically probably lower) while thermography is claiming 1412°C surface temps screams out that there is a massive error in the calorimetry, rendering the claims of gain meaningless unless or until that error can be explained satisfactorily. Hopeful theories about refractories wires etc just don't stand up to practical considerations (joining them to inconel that will anyway be melted at joint, forming these horribly brittle materials, keeping them away from air). -Knowing that the alumina is translucent also opens up so many possibilities for errors - and the translucence is unknown and unquantified for the material used over the range of temperatures and for the range of wavelengths of emitted light created by hot embedded wires - claims of it not being a problem don't hold water due to the above demonstrated/known error in the reactor temperature. We have no idea how much porosity it has, how thin it is, or what surface impurities might accumulate during long term high temperature operation to alter emissivity/translucence etc. -That I have identified a likely construction for the reactor that gives the visual results seen during testing (glowing wires wrapped around inner tube, but with minimal and variable contact quenching bought on by differential thermal expansion), all encased in outer shell), with no reactor
Re: [Vo]:temperature of the resistor wire.
All fair points of view Dave. Though with regard to 3 phase, at 900W input there is obviously no need, adds a lot of mechanical complexity (3 heater wires rather than 1) and a little more electrical complexity and would still get impulsive waveform using rectified DC + half H bridge to provide an ac pwm output - really simple linear power control that is dead simple to measure and control power output of, with much greater scope for variation of pulse frequency and duration. I doubt you or any other engineer or electrician would choose to do it the crude and restrictive way he has. Haven't tackled the electrical side of things much; but as an EE would you agree that conceptually it would be possible to hide a 10kHz AC signal superimposed on the grid supplied 3phase with amplitude a little less than the AC so as not to trigger the Triac turn off? (Hardware pretty simple, just 50% duty cycle driven half-H bridge of phase added to the 50Hz signal by means of a series transformer). My rough calculation suggest that could allow 3x the power to be delivered to the reactor without showing up on the PCE meter or having any DC component. Not that I think it likely (far too much potential for getting caught by someone with a multimeter or oscilloscope), but if the power meters were known to have a max frequency threshold then could this allow you to deliver more power without it being easily spotted? On 16 October 2014 16:12, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote: Sorry Robert, I will make every attempt to use your correct name in the future. Thanks for clarifying your reasons for exhibiting the strong critical position against the report. I admit that I harbor questions about the accuracy of the temperature measurements for many of the reasons that you point out. To me the slope in COP with temperature and the particle analysis are strong indicators that the device is generating some type of nuclear power within its core. I can not honestly believe that Rossi would be attempting a scam as you seem to think...he risks far too much. One tiny slip and he is toast. I recall reading in his blog that Ni62 was the active element from a couple of years back. At that time he was talking of developing a process that enriched the raw material in order to achieve that goal. Could that have been what he thought was happening within his reactor at the time? That would explain why he bought some of that isotope for research. I give him the benefit of the doubt. The 3 phase power concern just does not hold water to me. Remember the device tested is not normally used in isolation, but instead is a part of a much larger system. Phase balancing is quite common when a large amount of power is required and I would likely have done exactly the same thing as Rossi. There are other reasons that I believe the test proves that power is generated within the core that I have covered previously and will not repeat at this time since it is late here. Dave -Original Message- From: Robert Lynn robert.gulliver.l...@gmail.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Thu, Oct 16, 2014 2:20 am Subject: Re: [Vo]:temperature of the resistor wire. (Dave, my granddad is Bob, I'm Robert :) ), I would be over the moon if we had incontrovertible evidence of COP, but with a strong grounding in and respect for the scientific method you cannot and should not ever give bold assertions a free ride without vigorous critical review the skeptics of the world won't go any easier on him than I will. Which is what I am trying to provide, and unfortunately the harder I have looked at it and the more issues I have analysed the more likely it seems that the gain = 1 hypothesis is as strong as gain 1. Occams razor would then favour gain=1 rather than a collection of miraculously fortuitous LENR characteristics that include numerous transmutation pathways (fission and fusion of Ni and Li) without ionising radiation, or change in reaction rate as it goes from natural isotope ratios to essentially all Li6+Ni2, But my suspicions really shot through the roof after reading that Rossi bought 99% Ni62 from a commercial supplier at one point - and that is why I decided to look so hard at the physical attributes of the device (thermodynamics/hightemp materials are my forte) - to see whether it was thermodynamically unabiguous that there was gain 1. The needless ambiguity of the test raises my ire, that the power input is so clumsily measured when it would be so easy to use series resistors, triac switched single phase AC, PWM DC power supply or etc with the same electromagnetic effects within the reactor. Rossi with his resources could get someone to make such an unambiguous power supply/meter in a day - but as usual he has chosen the dark path of deliberate obfuscation. Likewise with the lack of thermocouples or proper flow calorimetry - so easy when the COP and power output are
[Vo]:Australian TV does cold fusion
http://www.3news.co.nz/world/scientist-claims-to-have-mastered-cold-fusion-2014101510 Sadly, terribly terribly ignorant.
[Vo]:Re: Australian TV does cold fusion
Can they say hell on tv in Australia? On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 2:37 AM, Blaze Spinnaker blazespinna...@gmail.com wrote: http://www.3news.co.nz/world/scientist-claims-to-have-mastered-cold-fusion-2014101510 Sadly, terribly terribly ignorant.
[Vo]:Re: Australian TV does cold fusion
Oh sorry, new zealand tv. On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 2:38 AM, Blaze Spinnaker blazespinna...@gmail.com wrote: Can they say hell on tv in Australia? On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 2:37 AM, Blaze Spinnaker blazespinna...@gmail.com wrote: http://www.3news.co.nz/world/scientist-claims-to-have-mastered-cold-fusion-2014101510 Sadly, terribly terribly ignorant.
[Vo]:HydroFusion
Did anyone pursue a share placement with Hydro Fusion? I had been thinking about it but didn't sign the NDA that they sent me. Amusingly, HydroFusion has no names on its website so that's obviously a rather huge flag.
RE: [Vo]:temperature of the resistor wire.
The reason Rossi is using a 3 phases power supply might be the rotating field created by a 3 phases AC power supply. _ From: Robert Lynn [mailto:robert.gulliver.l...@gmail.com] Sent: jeudi 16 octobre 2014 11:09 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:temperature of the resistor wire. All fair points of view Dave. Though with regard to 3 phase, at 900W input there is obviously no need, adds a lot of mechanical complexity (3 heater wires rather than 1) and a little more electrical complexity and would still get impulsive waveform using rectified DC + half H bridge to provide an ac pwm output - really simple linear power control that is dead simple to measure and control power output of, with much greater scope for variation of pulse frequency and duration. I doubt you or any other engineer or electrician would choose to do it the crude and restrictive way he has. Haven't tackled the electrical side of things much; but as an EE would you agree that conceptually it would be possible to hide a 10kHz AC signal superimposed on the grid supplied 3phase with amplitude a little less than the AC so as not to trigger the Triac turn off? (Hardware pretty simple, just 50% duty cycle driven half-H bridge of phase added to the 50Hz signal by means of a series transformer). My rough calculation suggest that could allow 3x the power to be delivered to the reactor without showing up on the PCE meter or having any DC component. Not that I think it likely (far too much potential for getting caught by someone with a multimeter or oscilloscope), but if the power meters were known to have a max frequency threshold then could this allow you to deliver more power without it being easily spotted? On 16 October 2014 16:12, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote: Sorry Robert, I will make every attempt to use your correct name in the future. Thanks for clarifying your reasons for exhibiting the strong critical position against the report. I admit that I harbor questions about the accuracy of the temperature measurements for many of the reasons that you point out. To me the slope in COP with temperature and the particle analysis are strong indicators that the device is generating some type of nuclear power within its core. I can not honestly believe that Rossi would be attempting a scam as you seem to think...he risks far too much. One tiny slip and he is toast. I recall reading in his blog that Ni62 was the active element from a couple of years back. At that time he was talking of developing a process that enriched the raw material in order to achieve that goal. Could that have been what he thought was happening within his reactor at the time? That would explain why he bought some of that isotope for research. I give him the benefit of the doubt. The 3 phase power concern just does not hold water to me. Remember the device tested is not normally used in isolation, but instead is a part of a much larger system. Phase balancing is quite common when a large amount of power is required and I would likely have done exactly the same thing as Rossi. There are other reasons that I believe the test proves that power is generated within the core that I have covered previously and will not repeat at this time since it is late here. Dave -Original Message- From: Robert Lynn robert.gulliver.l...@gmail.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Thu, Oct 16, 2014 2:20 am Subject: Re: [Vo]:temperature of the resistor wire. (Dave, my granddad is Bob, I'm Robert :) ), I would be over the moon if we had incontrovertible evidence of COP, but with a strong grounding in and respect for the scientific method you cannot and should not ever give bold assertions a free ride without vigorous critical review the skeptics of the world won't go any easier on him than I will. Which is what I am trying to provide, and unfortunately the harder I have looked at it and the more issues I have analysed the more likely it seems that the gain = 1 hypothesis is as strong as gain 1. Occams razor would then favour gain=1 rather than a collection of miraculously fortuitous LENR characteristics that include numerous transmutation pathways (fission and fusion of Ni and Li) without ionising radiation, or change in reaction rate as it goes from natural isotope ratios to essentially all Li6+Ni2, But my suspicions really shot through the roof after reading that Rossi bought 99% Ni62 from a commercial supplier at one point - and that is why I decided to look so hard at the physical attributes of the device (thermodynamics/hightemp materials are my forte) - to see whether it was thermodynamically unabiguous that there was gain 1. The needless ambiguity of the test raises my ire, that the power input is so clumsily measured when it would be so easy to use series resistors, triac switched single phase AC, PWM DC power supply or etc with the same electromagnetic effects within the reactor. Rossi with his
Re: [Vo]:Australian TV does cold fusion
New Zealand is a different country from Australia. Just saying. On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 8:37 PM, Blaze Spinnaker blazespinna...@gmail.com wrote: http://www.3news.co.nz/world/scientist-claims-to-have-mastered-cold-fusion-2014101510 Sadly, terribly terribly ignorant. -- Patrick www.tRacePerfect.com The daily puzzle everyone can finish but not everyone can perfect! The quickest puzzle ever!
Re: [Vo]:Australian TV does cold fusion
yeah, i sent out that correction... Just sayin' On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 4:02 AM, Patrick Ellul ellulpatr...@gmail.com wrote: New Zealand is a different country from Australia. Just saying. On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 8:37 PM, Blaze Spinnaker blazespinna...@gmail.com wrote: http://www.3news.co.nz/world/scientist-claims-to-have-mastered-cold-fusion-2014101510 Sadly, terribly terribly ignorant. -- Patrick www.tRacePerfect.com The daily puzzle everyone can finish but not everyone can perfect! The quickest puzzle ever!
Re: [Vo]:coherent perfect absorption
Mark-- The size of the coherent system is the key. Many bodies share the distribution of energy and total coherent system energy changes. Two body systems like that heretofore considered in hot fusion physics (and extended to all solid state physics by many) are not the answer to the cold fusion question in most cases IMHOI. Bob Cook - Original Message - From: MarkI-ZeroPoint To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2014 11:35 PM Subject: [Vo]:coherent perfect absorption Just some food for Collective thought. as to why no dead grad students. Perfect energy-feeding into strongly coupled systems and interferometric control of polariton absorption http://www.nature.com/nphys/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/nphys3106.html Abstract The ability to drive a system with an external input is a fundamental aspect of light-matter interaction. The key concept in many photonic applications is the 'critical coupling' condition1, 2: at criticality, all the energy fed to the system is dissipated within the system itself. Although this idea was crucial to enhance the efficiency of many devices, it was never considered in the context of systems operating in a non-perturbative regime. In this so-called strong-coupling regime, the matter and light degrees of freedom are mixed into dressed states, leading to new eigenstates called polaritons3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10. Here we demonstrate that the strong-coupling regime and the critical coupling condition can coexist; [emphasis mine] in such a strong critical coupling situation, all the incoming energy is converted into polaritons. A general semiclassical theory reveals that such a situation corresponds to a special curve in the phase diagram of the coupled light-matter oscillators. In the case of a system with two radiating ports, the phenomenology shown is that of coherent perfect absorption (CPA; refs 11, 12), which is then naturally understood in the framework of critical coupling. Most importantly, we experimentally verify polaritonic CPA in a semiconductor-based intersubband-polariton photonic crystal resonator. This result opens new avenues in polariton physics, making it possible to control the pumping efficiency of a system independent of the energy exchange rate between the electromagnetic field and the material transition. -mark iverson
Re: [Vo]:Aviation Week and the Lockheed Fusion Reactor
On Gibb's Site -- NO! Not Gibbsite !!! http://www.networkworld.com/article/2834452/data-center/lockheed-martins-cfr-a-hot-fusion-breakthrough-for-power-generation.html he notes that the disposal problem of 10's of thousands of dead reactors is non-trivial.
Re: [Vo]:coherent perfect absorption
http://scitation.aip.org/content/aip/journal/jcp/136/3/10.1063/1.3678015 Quote: Within the optical cavity, the photons acquire an effective mass as determined by the cut-off frequency of the cavity that can be 6–7 orders of magnitude less than mass of an electron. *Depending upon the density, this allows for a BEC transition temperature that can approach room temperature. *Polaritons are also ultra-light quasiparticles that are known to condense in systems composed of a semiconducting quantum well sandwiched between two reflective mirrors. 2–6 In this case, however, the polaritons act as hard-core Bosons and scattering at high density allows for a rapid thermalization of the gas. Note: the temperature of condensation of polaritons is proportional to the density of the polaritons and so is their effective mass. The Ni/H reactor produces a huge density of coherent polaritons far greater than what a single Nano-cavity can produce. Within the Ni/H reactor's reaction, there is a positive feedback mechanism in place that converts nuclear energy into infrared photons and electrons from more vigorous dipole motion. This energy infusion pushes the density of the polaritons to extreme levels causing the condensate to establish at ever higher temperatures. On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 10:18 AM, Bob Cook frobertc...@hotmail.com wrote: Mark-- The size of the coherent system is the key. Many bodies share the distribution of energy and total coherent system energy changes. Two body systems like that heretofore considered in hot fusion physics (and extended to all solid state physics by many) are not the answer to the cold fusion question in most cases IMHOI. Bob Cook - Original Message - *From:* MarkI-ZeroPoint zeropo...@charter.net *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com *Sent:* Wednesday, October 15, 2014 11:35 PM *Subject:* [Vo]:coherent perfect absorption Just some food for Collective thought… as to why no dead grad students. “Perfect energy-feeding into strongly coupled systems and interferometric control of polariton absorption” http://www.nature.com/nphys/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/nphys3106.html Abstract The ability to drive a system with an external input is a fundamental aspect of light–matter interaction. The key concept in many photonic applications is the ‘critical coupling’ condition1, 2: at criticality, all the energy fed to the system is dissipated within the system itself. Although this idea was crucial to enhance the efficiency of many devices, it was never considered in the context of systems operating in a non-perturbative regime. In this so-called strong-coupling regime, the matter and light degrees of freedom are mixed into dressed states, leading to new eigenstates called polaritons3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10. Here we demonstrate that the strong-coupling regime and the critical coupling condition can coexist; [emphasis mine] in such a strong critical coupling situation, all the incoming energy is converted into polaritons. A general semiclassical theory reveals that such a situation corresponds to a special curve in the phase diagram of the coupled light–matter oscillators. In the case of a system with two radiating ports, the phenomenology shown is that of coherent perfect absorption (CPA; refs 11, 12), which is then naturally understood in the framework of critical coupling. Most importantly, we experimentally verify polaritonic CPA in a semiconductor-based intersubband-polariton photonic crystal resonator. This result opens new avenues in polariton physics, making it possible to control the pumping efficiency of a system independent of the energy exchange rate between the electromagnetic field and the material transition. -mark iverson
Re: [Vo]:Engineering and materials issues with high temperature hot-cat Lugano demo
I am pretty sure these endcaps are just mechanical supports for the hot tube in the middle. They are large alumina outer rings that have been filled with a cast-able refractory insulation such as a Vitcast 1200 INS or Vitcast 1400 INS-H. They insulate the mounting apparatus from the hot radiating tube. They serve no other function. The wires don't go through these and they do not seal the ends. They are just supports. On Wed, Oct 15, 2014 at 11:32 PM, Eric Walker eric.wal...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Oct 15, 2014 at 9:24 AM, Bob Higgins rj.bob.higg...@gmail.com wrote: I believe the large tubes on the end to be thermally insulating supports for the hot central 2 cm tube. A question that came to me was whether the alumina endcaps could be replaced with metal endcaps of a suitable alloy in the context of a larger array of devices, in order to provide a suitable path out for the heat to be used to generate steam. Another question I have is how much thermal load one of these devices can handle. Eric
RE: [Vo]:Engineering and materials issues with high temperature hot-cat Lugano demo
Bob, Just a thought. I'm not an expert of magnetic confinement of plasma. But, the encaps might contain a proper wires configuration to close the rotating magnetic field formed by the 3 phases current. Arnaud _ From: Bob Higgins [mailto:rj.bob.higg...@gmail.com] Sent: jeudi 16 octobre 2014 17:05 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Engineering and materials issues with high temperature hot-cat Lugano demo I am pretty sure these endcaps are just mechanical supports for the hot tube in the middle. They are large alumina outer rings that have been filled with a cast-able refractory insulation such as a Vitcast 1200 INS or Vitcast 1400 INS-H. They insulate the mounting apparatus from the hot radiating tube. They serve no other function. The wires don't go through these and they do not seal the ends. They are just supports. On Wed, Oct 15, 2014 at 11:32 PM, Eric Walker eric.wal...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Oct 15, 2014 at 9:24 AM, Bob Higgins rj.bob.higg...@gmail.com wrote: I believe the large tubes on the end to be thermally insulating supports for the hot central 2 cm tube. A question that came to me was whether the alumina endcaps could be replaced with metal endcaps of a suitable alloy in the context of a larger array of devices, in order to provide a suitable path out for the heat to be used to generate steam. Another question I have is how much thermal load one of these devices can handle. Eric
Re: [Vo]:Engineering and materials issues with high temperature hot-cat Lugano demo
I believe the ends are completely sealed with a compound like the Vitcast 1400 INS-H. I also think the space between the inner and radiating tube is probably filled with this same compound. You don't want air flowing in there in case there are cracks in the alumina adhesive put over the heater coils. You don't want those coils exposed to O2 or they will fail immediately when over 1000C. I have done a detailed weight analysis of the assembly I posted, including three coils of 30 turns each of 20 gauge Kanthal APM heater wire. The weight comes out about 15% below the measured weight of the Lugano tested hotCat, but that could easily have been made up by using denser casting compound filling the inside of the mounting cylinder end caps. Also, the radiating tube, being a custom cast piece probably weighs a little more than the stock extruded tube of approximately the same dimension. I am pretty sure this is all on the right track. Of course, these mechanical details of the Lugano tested hotCat are the least important. Most important is what is used for active LENR powder that is pre-sintered inside the central tube. My opinion is that we haven't seen any of this in the analysis of the starting material or the ash. The starting material (as I have posted) is likely just the consumable portion (perhaps with some Ni for inert obfuscation) and what shook out as ash was never the active material which is all sintered onto the inside of the central tube. Replication would certainly require a good estimate of what this active media is on the inside of the central tube. Bob On Wed, Oct 15, 2014 at 12:08 PM, ChemE Stewart cheme...@gmail.com wrote: Me too, good job. Tube in a tube reminds of the model rockets I used to build. Fin supports between tubes might explain the wider dark band seen as a spiral?. Do you think a lot of the heat might be discharged in a space between tubes and out the ends? Or are the ends completely sealed? On Wednesday, October 15, 2014, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: You Alan have done an amazing job sleuthing out the details of this thing. I suppose you are right, although I cannot tell. If you are right it is a great job and if you are wrong you have a vivid imagination! - Jed
Re: [Vo]:temperature of the resistor wire.
The three phase connection is not too surprising if we assume that many more of these units are to be mounted in a complete system. It would be extra work for Rossi to construct a new device using only one phase for the scientists to measure. I give him a pass on this point. In the past I have dedicated a great deal of effort toward proving that the input power can be calculated by only considering the fundamental component of the input current. Power from a sinewave source can only be extracted by the current that is flowing at the same frequency as the source voltage. You can look this up in text books if you are curious. Briefly, power delivered from a sine wave source is determined by taking the product of the RMS voltage at that frequency and multiplying it by the RMS current at the same frequency while taking the phase difference into account. Any DC or harmonic currents entering the device due to internal effects are not able to change that calculation except for how they might enter into changing the current at the fundamental. I have made spice models of the current problem that you are mentioning and proved that this assertion is accurate. Remember that the same issue arose after the last test. Every indication is that the input power was measured accurately. It may not be quite as simple as some believe to achieve stable power control for the CATs. My simulation indicates that the COP changes throughout the input and hence output power range. The incremental COP is at a maximum below the power at which the overall COP reaches it peak. And, to complicate matters, the overall COP actually falls once the peak level is exceeded. This can be viewed as a type of negative resistance region. I am still reviewing the model to better understand the implications. Dave -Original Message- From: Robert Lynn robert.gulliver.l...@gmail.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Thu, Oct 16, 2014 5:08 am Subject: Re: [Vo]:temperature of the resistor wire. All fair points of view Dave. Though with regard to 3 phase, at 900W input there is obviously no need, adds a lot of mechanical complexity (3 heater wires rather than 1) and a little more electrical complexity and would still get impulsive waveform using rectified DC + half H bridge to provide an ac pwm output - really simple linear power control that is dead simple to measure and control power output of, with much greater scope for variation of pulse frequency and duration. I doubt you or any other engineer or electrician would choose to do it the crude and restrictive way he has. Haven't tackled the electrical side of things much; but as an EE would you agree that conceptually it would be possible to hide a 10kHz AC signal superimposed on the grid supplied 3phase with amplitude a little less than the AC so as not to trigger the Triac turn off? (Hardware pretty simple, just 50% duty cycle driven half-H bridge of phase added to the 50Hz signal by means of a series transformer). My rough calculation suggest that could allow 3x the power to be delivered to the reactor without showing up on the PCE meter or having any DC component. Not that I think it likely (far too much potential for getting caught by someone with a multimeter or oscilloscope), but if the power meters were known to have a max frequency threshold then could this allow you to deliver more power without it being easily spotted? On 16 October 2014 16:12, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote: Sorry Robert, I will make every attempt to use your correct name in the future. Thanks for clarifying your reasons for exhibiting the strong critical position against the report. I admit that I harbor questions about the accuracy of the temperature measurements for many of the reasons that you point out. To me the slope in COP with temperature and the particle analysis are strong indicators that the device is generating some type of nuclear power within its core. I can not honestly believe that Rossi would be attempting a scam as you seem to think...he risks far too much. One tiny slip and he is toast. I recall reading in his blog that Ni62 was the active element from a couple of years back. At that time he was talking of developing a process that enriched the raw material in order to achieve that goal. Could that have been what he thought was happening within his reactor at the time? That would explain why he bought some of that isotope for research. I give him the benefit of the doubt. The 3 phase power concern just does not hold water to me. Remember the device tested is not normally used in isolation, but instead is a part of a much larger system. Phase balancing is quite common when a large amount of power is required and I would likely have done exactly the same thing as Rossi. There are other reasons that I believe the test proves that power is generated within the core that I have
RE: [Vo]:temperature of the resistor wire.
From: Robert Lynn Well I can argue that there is no excess heat - The thermography is proven to be wrong (inconel resistance wires melt at 1300-1350°C 1412°C surface reactor temp claimed, and wires would have to be much hotter than reactor surface). Robert, Even if the thermography were not in error, meaning the internal wiring was tungsten or another conductor, and even if there was strong apparent excess heat, or no excess heat - everyone keeps overlooking the fact that Rossi intervened to prevent calibration of the so-called “dummy” reactor. That is FATAL to this report, which is little more than junk science because of that one overwhelming issue. Some observers want to blame Levi instead, but if Levi was not planning to fully calibrate anyway, that only shifts the blame, but does not change the conclusion of gross incompetence, at best - and deliberate deceit at worst. That is because it is possible, even likely - that there never was a “dummy” reactor. (to be explained) Rossi proponents either aren’t listening or do not understand that he has a long history of not playing by the rules, or else they do not understand the full implication of intervening in an “independent” report at all of the critical stages. But the lack of calibration is the key issue which dooms this report. Everything else is a footnote. The ironic thing is that failure to calibrate does not mean that there is no excess heat. In fact there is a fair to good chance that there is more excess than claimed. What the lack of calibration does mean is that Rossi is hiding something - and has used trickery to promote an agenda which includes more than financial gain. He has plenty of motive, even if his royalty deal has no milestones and even if the patent office is not impressed with these shenanigans. My best guess is that there never was a “dummy” and that the reactor which was tested came already engineered to produce excess heat, no matter what was put in it. He could have loaded it with bat guano and it would have worked. The “magic act” of loading and unloading “salted” powders then becomes the sham, which was a ploy to convince the patent office of something while throwing off the competition, and buying time. It could also be evidence of a contractual milestone in a multi-year royalty agreement. Yet Rossi may have invented something of great value. That is the irony. Let me reiterate that the odds of finding pure Ni62 (assuming that it was not salted into a sample) is greater than the proverbial monkey typing out the Twelfth Night with no typos. Rossi may well be a genius inventor, or just plain lucky but he is his own worst enemy if my suspicion is correct. That suspicion is that he staged this entire episode as a carefully crafted charade to not only fool potential competitors and the USPTO, but perhaps his benefactors at IH as well. He has thermal gain, and he justifies everything with the rationalization that if caught – he still has discovered a paradigm shift in physics. Worst of all – Rossi may well have a secret that he does not want even his benefactors to understand at this time since he does not understand it himself, and until he does, he has no one else he can trust (in his own mind). But since he is his own worst enemy, the reasoning becomes circular. This report stinks and it sets back LENR many years. attachment: winmail.dat
Re: [Vo]:temperature of the resistor wire.
Jones, what you write here is pure speculation. I share some concerns about the temperature measurements and how they might influence the output power, but there is certainly no serious evidence that Rossi was able to impact the testing in a serious manner. Why do you continue to suggest a scam of some type? If anything happened in error I for one believe it was an honest mistake. Dave -Original Message- From: Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Thu, Oct 16, 2014 12:13 pm Subject: RE: [Vo]:temperature of the resistor wire. From: Robert Lynn Well I can argue that there is no excess heat - The thermography is proven to be wrong (inconel resistance wires melt at 1300-1350°C 1412°C surface reactor temp claimed, and wires would have to be much hotter than reactor surface). Robert, Even if the thermography were not in error, meaning the internal wiring was tungsten or another conductor, and even if there was strong apparent excess heat, or no excess heat - everyone keeps overlooking the fact that Rossi intervened to prevent calibration of the so-called “dummy” reactor. That is FATAL to this report, which is little more than junk science because of that one overwhelming issue. Some observers want to blame Levi instead, but if Levi was not planning to fully calibrate anyway, that only shifts the blame, but does not change the conclusion of gross incompetence, at best - and deliberate deceit at worst. That is because it is possible, even likely - that there never was a “dummy” reactor. (to be explained) Rossi proponents either aren’t listening or do not understand that he has a long history of not playing by the rules, or else they do not understand the full implication of intervening in an “independent” report at all of the critical stages. But the lack of calibration is the key issue which dooms this report. Everything else is a footnote. The ironic thing is that failure to calibrate does not mean that there is no excess heat. In fact there is a fair to good chance that there is more excess than claimed. What the lack of calibration does mean is that Rossi is hiding something - and has used trickery to promote an agenda which includes more than financial gain. He has plenty of motive, even if his royalty deal has no milestones and even if the patent office is not impressed with these shenanigans. My best guess is that there never was a “dummy” and that the reactor which was tested came already engineered to produce excess heat, no matter what was put in it. He could have loaded it with bat guano and it would have worked. The “magic act” of loading and unloading “salted” powders then becomes the sham, which was a ploy to convince the patent office of something while throwing off the competition, and buying time. It could also be evidence of a contractual milestone in a multi-year royalty agreement. Yet Rossi may have invented something of great value. That is the irony. Let me reiterate that the odds of finding pure Ni62 (assuming that it was not salted into a sample) is greater than the proverbial monkey typing out the Twelfth Night with no typos. Rossi may well be a genius inventor, or just plain lucky but he is his own worst enemy if my suspicion is correct. That suspicion is that he staged this entire episode as a carefully crafted charade to not only fool potential competitors and the USPTO, but perhaps his benefactors at IH as well. He has thermal gain, and he justifies everything with the rationalization that if caught – he still has discovered a paradigm shift in physics. Worst of all – Rossi may well have a secret that he does not want even his benefactors to understand at this time since he does not understand it himself, and until he does, he has no one else he can trust (in his own mind). But since he is his own worst enemy, the reasoning becomes circular. This report stinks and it sets back LENR many years.
Re: [Vo]:temperature of the resistor wire.
Dear David, It might be informative if your model could be modified to check the heat production of the nickel particles and their temperature and the flow of that heat from the central channel that encloses the nickel particles to the outside edge of the reactor some centimeters away so that that temperature is maintained at a steady 1400C. It seems to me intuitively that the temperature of those particles being less than one gram in weight can support the 1400C external temperature without approaching a temperature that is beyond the melting point of nickel. I figure that there is a delta T of about 200C involved between the heat production zone and the outside edge of the reactor. That puts the nickel particles at 1600C or greater. The particles should have all melted. Something does not make sense in this regard considering that these nickel particles are receiving 900 watts of thermal stimulation in addition to the heat that they are generating through the LENR reaction. On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 12:13 PM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote: The three phase connection is not too surprising if we assume that many more of these units are to be mounted in a complete system. It would be extra work for Rossi to construct a new device using only one phase for the scientists to measure. I give him a pass on this point. In the past I have dedicated a great deal of effort toward proving that the input power can be calculated by only considering the fundamental component of the input current. Power from a sinewave source can only be extracted by the current that is flowing at the same frequency as the source voltage. You can look this up in text books if you are curious. Briefly, power delivered from a sine wave source is determined by taking the product of the RMS voltage at that frequency and multiplying it by the RMS current at the same frequency while taking the phase difference into account. Any DC or harmonic currents entering the device due to internal effects are not able to change that calculation except for how they might enter into changing the current at the fundamental. I have made spice models of the current problem that you are mentioning and proved that this assertion is accurate. Remember that the same issue arose after the last test. Every indication is that the input power was measured accurately. It may not be quite as simple as some believe to achieve stable power control for the CATs. My simulation indicates that the COP changes throughout the input and hence output power range. The incremental COP is at a maximum below the power at which the overall COP reaches it peak. And, to complicate matters, the overall COP actually falls once the peak level is exceeded. This can be viewed as a type of negative resistance region. I am still reviewing the model to better understand the implications. Dave -Original Message- From: Robert Lynn robert.gulliver.l...@gmail.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Thu, Oct 16, 2014 5:08 am Subject: Re: [Vo]:temperature of the resistor wire. All fair points of view Dave. Though with regard to 3 phase, at 900W input there is obviously no need, adds a lot of mechanical complexity (3 heater wires rather than 1) and a little more electrical complexity and would still get impulsive waveform using rectified DC + half H bridge to provide an ac pwm output - really simple linear power control that is dead simple to measure and control power output of, with much greater scope for variation of pulse frequency and duration. I doubt you or any other engineer or electrician would choose to do it the crude and restrictive way he has. Haven't tackled the electrical side of things much; but as an EE would you agree that conceptually it would be possible to hide a 10kHz AC signal superimposed on the grid supplied 3phase with amplitude a little less than the AC so as not to trigger the Triac turn off? (Hardware pretty simple, just 50% duty cycle driven half-H bridge of phase added to the 50Hz signal by means of a series transformer). My rough calculation suggest that could allow 3x the power to be delivered to the reactor without showing up on the PCE meter or having any DC component. Not that I think it likely (far too much potential for getting caught by someone with a multimeter or oscilloscope), but if the power meters were known to have a max frequency threshold then could this allow you to deliver more power without it being easily spotted? On 16 October 2014 16:12, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote: Sorry Robert, I will make every attempt to use your correct name in the future. Thanks for clarifying your reasons for exhibiting the strong critical position against the report. I admit that I harbor questions about the accuracy of the temperature measurements for many of the reasons that you point out. To me the slope in COP with temperature and
Re: [Vo]:temperature of the resistor wire.
Dave, that was my first thought too, but in going over the construction of the heater coils, it turned out to be a pain to deal with the heater wire cross-overs. You would not do this just because you were planning to connect the array to a 3-phase supply. You could simply have an array of 3N, have single phase coils, and balance each phase with the single phase coils in the array device. To go to the trouble of making each unit 3-phase demands a better reason. I posted earlier that I believe that the 3-phase is specifically used to create a linear moving field (like a linear motor) to circulate the lithium plasma that likely forms at high temperature. This would make the device much more uniformly heated in the face of chaotic LENR occurring inside the reactor and would help avoid hot spots. Bob On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 10:13 AM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote: The three phase connection is not too surprising if we assume that many more of these units are to be mounted in a complete system. It would be extra work for Rossi to construct a new device using only one phase for the scientists to measure. I give him a pass on this point.
[Vo]:Giant Rydberg excitons in the copper oxide Cu2O
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v514/n7522/full/nature13832.html Giant Rydberg excitons in the copper oxide Cu2O Nature 514, 343–347 (16 October 2014) doi:10.1038/nature13832Received 05 March 2014 Accepted 02 September 2014 Published online 15 October 2014 A highly excited atom having an electron that has moved into a level with large principal quantum number is a hydrogen-like object, termed a Rydberg atom. The giant size of Rydberg atoms1leads to huge interaction effects. Monitoring these interactions has provided insights into atomic and molecular physics on the single-quantum level. Excitons—the fundamental optical excitations in semiconductors2, consisting of an electron and a positively charged hole—are the condensed-matter analogues of hydrogen. Highly excited excitons with extensions similar to those of Rydberg atoms are of interest because they can be placed and moved in a crystal with high precision using microscopic energy potential landscapes. The interaction of such Rydberg excitons may allow the formation of ordered exciton phases or the sensing of elementary excitations in their surroundings on a quantum level. Here we demonstrate the existence of Rydberg excitons in the copper oxide Cu2O, with principal quantum numbers as large as n = 25. These states have giant wavefunction extensions (that is, the average distance between the electron and the hole) of more than two micrometres, compared to about a nanometre for the ground state. The strong dipole–dipole interaction between such excitons is indicated by a blockade effect in which the presence of one exciton prevents the excitation of another in its vicinity.
Re: [Vo]:Engineering and materials issues with high temperature hot-cat Lugano demo
Bob. Amaud, etal-- I had the same thought as Amaud. The wiring arrangement may be deigned to create a magnetic field inside the reactor to align magnetic moments of the various entities and facilitate resonant interactions at varying probabilities to control the rate of reaction. Bob Cook - Original Message - From: Arnaud Kodeck To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2014 8:10 AM Subject: RE: [Vo]:Engineering and materials issues with high temperature hot-cat Lugano demo Bob, Just a thought. I'm not an expert of magnetic confinement of plasma. But, the « encaps » might contain a proper wires configuration to close the rotating magnetic field formed by the 3 phases current. Arnaud -- From: Bob Higgins [mailto:rj.bob.higg...@gmail.com] Sent: jeudi 16 octobre 2014 17:05 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Engineering and materials issues with high temperature hot-cat Lugano demo I am pretty sure these endcaps are just mechanical supports for the hot tube in the middle. They are large alumina outer rings that have been filled with a cast-able refractory insulation such as a Vitcast 1200 INS or Vitcast 1400 INS-H. They insulate the mounting apparatus from the hot radiating tube. They serve no other function. The wires don't go through these and they do not seal the ends. They are just supports. On Wed, Oct 15, 2014 at 11:32 PM, Eric Walker eric.wal...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Oct 15, 2014 at 9:24 AM, Bob Higgins rj.bob.higg...@gmail.com wrote: I believe the large tubes on the end to be thermally insulating supports for the hot central 2 cm tube. A question that came to me was whether the alumina endcaps could be replaced with metal endcaps of a suitable alloy in the context of a larger array of devices, in order to provide a suitable path out for the heat to be used to generate steam. Another question I have is how much thermal load one of these devices can handle. Eric
Re: [Vo]:Engineering and materials issues with high temperature hot-cat Lugano demo
[image: dereefer] https://sdsimonson.files.wordpress.com/2014/10/dereefer.gif On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 12:50 PM, Bob Cook frobertc...@hotmail.com wrote: Bob. Amaud, etal-- I had the same thought as Amaud. The wiring arrangement may be deigned to create a magnetic field inside the reactor to align magnetic moments of the various entities and facilitate resonant interactions at varying probabilities to control the rate of reaction. Bob Cook - Original Message - *From:* Arnaud Kodeck arnaud.kod...@lakoco.be *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com *Sent:* Thursday, October 16, 2014 8:10 AM *Subject:* RE: [Vo]:Engineering and materials issues with high temperature hot-cat Lugano demo Bob, Just a thought. I’m not an expert of magnetic confinement of plasma. But, the « encaps » might contain a proper wires configuration to close the rotating magnetic field formed by the 3 phases current. Arnaud -- *From:* Bob Higgins [mailto:rj.bob.higg...@gmail.com] *Sent:* jeudi 16 octobre 2014 17:05 *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:Engineering and materials issues with high temperature hot-cat Lugano demo I am pretty sure these endcaps are just mechanical supports for the hot tube in the middle. They are large alumina outer rings that have been filled with a cast-able refractory insulation such as a Vitcast 1200 INS or Vitcast 1400 INS-H. They insulate the mounting apparatus from the hot radiating tube. They serve no other function. The wires don't go through these and they do not seal the ends. They are just supports. On Wed, Oct 15, 2014 at 11:32 PM, Eric Walker eric.wal...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Oct 15, 2014 at 9:24 AM, Bob Higgins rj.bob.higg...@gmail.com wrote: I believe the large tubes on the end to be thermally insulating supports for the hot central 2 cm tube. A question that came to me was whether the alumina endcaps could be replaced with metal endcaps of a suitable alloy in the context of a larger array of devices, in order to provide a suitable path out for the heat to be used to generate steam. Another question I have is how much thermal load one of these devices can handle. Eric
Re: [Vo]:Engineering and materials issues with high temperature hot-cat Lugano demo
Seems to me that at the temperatures we are talking about (1000C) that bulk magnetic effects are probably out of the question. A plasma of Li would be a conductor and a conductor could be conveyed in a moving magnetic field. I don't think any motion will occur because of any bulk magnetic affects - these are all gone at this temperature. This temperature also makes it difficult to consider magnetically confined condensates as Yeong Kim has described. On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 10:50 AM, Bob Cook frobertc...@hotmail.com wrote: Bob. Amaud, etal-- I had the same thought as Amaud. The wiring arrangement may be deigned to create a magnetic field inside the reactor to align magnetic moments of the various entities and facilitate resonant interactions at varying probabilities to control the rate of reaction. Bob Cook - Original Message - *From:* Arnaud Kodeck arnaud.kod...@lakoco.be *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com *Sent:* Thursday, October 16, 2014 8:10 AM *Subject:* RE: [Vo]:Engineering and materials issues with high temperature hot-cat Lugano demo Bob, Just a thought. I’m not an expert of magnetic confinement of plasma. But, the « encaps » might contain a proper wires configuration to close the rotating magnetic field formed by the 3 phases current. Arnaud -- *From:* Bob Higgins [mailto:rj.bob.higg...@gmail.com] *Sent:* jeudi 16 octobre 2014 17:05 *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:Engineering and materials issues with high temperature hot-cat Lugano demo I am pretty sure these endcaps are just mechanical supports for the hot tube in the middle. They are large alumina outer rings that have been filled with a cast-able refractory insulation such as a Vitcast 1200 INS or Vitcast 1400 INS-H. They insulate the mounting apparatus from the hot radiating tube. They serve no other function. The wires don't go through these and they do not seal the ends. They are just supports. On Wed, Oct 15, 2014 at 11:32 PM, Eric Walker eric.wal...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Oct 15, 2014 at 9:24 AM, Bob Higgins rj.bob.higg...@gmail.com wrote: I believe the large tubes on the end to be thermally insulating supports for the hot central 2 cm tube. A question that came to me was whether the alumina endcaps could be replaced with metal endcaps of a suitable alloy in the context of a larger array of devices, in order to provide a suitable path out for the heat to be used to generate steam. Another question I have is how much thermal load one of these devices can handle. Eric
[Vo]:Greenhouse HotCat
A thought occurred to me this morning concerning the temperature measurements and output power calculations from the latest HotCat testing. What if the same general type of effect is working in the CAT test that is revealed by the Earth and the greenhouse gas process? We assume that the Earth is pretty much in equilibrium where the power arriving from the sun is matching the power being radiated from our planet. The reason that we are not frozen at this time is because the radiation spectrum is modified by the greenhouse gases in the atmosphere which make our temperature a lot warmer than would be expected for a black body in open space. Perhaps something can be learned from this comparison and that is why I open it to discussion amount this group of knowlegible and diverse folks. One might initially ask if the calibration technique used during the testing of the HotCat would correct for the potential problems. Why would a calibration of the heat emitted within the IR region not hold to a reasonable degree at higher temperatures? Could the change in the shape of the spectrum result in a large error? Have mercy on the messenger. Dave
[Vo]:Sunspots
Sunspots are examples of unusually cool regions persisting in hotter surroundings, so it is not beyond all experience to say that the temperature of the wire inside the reactor remains below its melting temperature. Harry
Re: [Vo]:Sunspots
Agree On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 1:03 PM, H Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com wrote: Sunspots are examples of unusually cool regions persisting in hotter surroundings, so it is not beyond all experience to say that the temperature of the wire inside the reactor remains below its melting temperature. Harry
Re: [Vo]:Engineering and materials issues with high temperature hot-cat Lugano demo
Just a visual http://www.descaler.si/assets/images/coil_ani.gif On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 12:59 PM, Bob Higgins rj.bob.higg...@gmail.com wrote: Seems to me that at the temperatures we are talking about (1000C) that bulk magnetic effects are probably out of the question. A plasma of Li would be a conductor and a conductor could be conveyed in a moving magnetic field. I don't think any motion will occur because of any bulk magnetic affects - these are all gone at this temperature. This temperature also makes it difficult to consider magnetically confined condensates as Yeong Kim has described. On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 10:50 AM, Bob Cook frobertc...@hotmail.com wrote: Bob. Amaud, etal-- I had the same thought as Amaud. The wiring arrangement may be deigned to create a magnetic field inside the reactor to align magnetic moments of the various entities and facilitate resonant interactions at varying probabilities to control the rate of reaction. Bob Cook - Original Message - *From:* Arnaud Kodeck arnaud.kod...@lakoco.be *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com *Sent:* Thursday, October 16, 2014 8:10 AM *Subject:* RE: [Vo]:Engineering and materials issues with high temperature hot-cat Lugano demo Bob, Just a thought. I’m not an expert of magnetic confinement of plasma. But, the « encaps » might contain a proper wires configuration to close the rotating magnetic field formed by the 3 phases current. Arnaud -- *From:* Bob Higgins [mailto:rj.bob.higg...@gmail.com] *Sent:* jeudi 16 octobre 2014 17:05 *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:Engineering and materials issues with high temperature hot-cat Lugano demo I am pretty sure these endcaps are just mechanical supports for the hot tube in the middle. They are large alumina outer rings that have been filled with a cast-able refractory insulation such as a Vitcast 1200 INS or Vitcast 1400 INS-H. They insulate the mounting apparatus from the hot radiating tube. They serve no other function. The wires don't go through these and they do not seal the ends. They are just supports. On Wed, Oct 15, 2014 at 11:32 PM, Eric Walker eric.wal...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Oct 15, 2014 at 9:24 AM, Bob Higgins rj.bob.higg...@gmail.com wrote: I believe the large tubes on the end to be thermally insulating supports for the hot central 2 cm tube. A question that came to me was whether the alumina endcaps could be replaced with metal endcaps of a suitable alloy in the context of a larger array of devices, in order to provide a suitable path out for the heat to be used to generate steam. Another question I have is how much thermal load one of these devices can handle. Eric
Re: [Vo]:temperature of the resistor wire.
I wish my model would handle that question, but it is quite limited. Think of it as being able to estimate overall trends instead of minute details. Stable operation of the HotCat appears to be due to the geometry of the device. The external area and how it is treated with the rings, etc. could well be a secret known to Rossi and his team. Think of the behavior of a fuel sample when exposed to heat and the design becomes more transparent. The input heat source can be viewed as a bias that sets the operating point to which the reactor responds. Once an operating point is established by obtaining a fixed temperature you can then determine whether or not the device is stable. Consider a tiny delta in temperature occurs due to noise or parameter changes. This small increase in temperature results in additional heat being produced by the core. Now that increase in heat energy is applied to the core and leads to an increase of its temperature. But, the increase in core temperature also results in an increase to the amount of energy that is radiated, convected and conducted away from itself. A stable system is able to expel more heat in this manner than is generated by the core. And, the closer to a balance you come by geometry and operational temperature, the higher the positive feedback and hence COP. That is the secret to the design of the geometry according to my model. Of course none of this fancy balancing occurs when a dead core is used. In that case the input and output are always tied directly to the source and no positive feedback occurs. The behavior seen by the scientists matches that which is expected when a live core is present and is the main reason that I am confident that real core heating is present. It makes complete sense. Dave -Original Message- From: Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Thu, Oct 16, 2014 12:40 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:temperature of the resistor wire. Dear David, It might be informative if your model could be modifiedto check the heat production of the nickel particles and their temperature andthe flow of that heat from the central channel that encloses the nickelparticles to the outside edge of the reactor some centimeters away so that thattemperature is maintained at a steady 1400C. It seems to me intuitively that the temperature of thoseparticles being less than one gram in weight can support the 1400C externaltemperature without approaching a temperature that is beyond the melting pointof nickel. I figure that there is a delta T of about 200C involved betweenthe heat production zone and the outside edge of the reactor. That puts thenickel particles at 1600C or greater. The particles should have all melted.Something does not make sense in this regard considering that these nickelparticles are receiving 900 watts of thermal stimulation in addition to theheat that they are generating through the LENR reaction. On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 12:13 PM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote: The three phase connection is not too surprising if we assume that many more of these units are to be mounted in a complete system. It would be extra work for Rossi to construct a new device using only one phase for the scientists to measure. I give him a pass on this point. In the past I have dedicated a great deal of effort toward proving that the input power can be calculated by only considering the fundamental component of the input current. Power from a sinewave source can only be extracted by the current that is flowing at the same frequency as the source voltage. You can look this up in text books if you are curious. Briefly, power delivered from a sine wave source is determined by taking the product of the RMS voltage at that frequency and multiplying it by the RMS current at the same frequency while taking the phase difference into account. Any DC or harmonic currents entering the device due to internal effects are not able to change that calculation except for how they might enter into changing the current at the fundamental. I have made spice models of the current problem that you are mentioning and proved that this assertion is accurate. Remember that the same issue arose after the last test. Every indication is that the input power was measured accurately. It may not be quite as simple as some believe to achieve stable power control for the CATs. My simulation indicates that the COP changes throughout the input and hence output power range. The incremental COP is at a maximum below the power at which the overall COP reaches it peak. And, to complicate matters, the overall COP actually falls once the peak level is exceeded. This can be viewed as a type of negative resistance region. I am still reviewing the model to better understand the implications. Dave -Original Message- From: Robert Lynn
RE: [Vo]:temperature of the resistor wire.
From: David Roberson Jones, what you write here is pure speculation. Dave - I made it clear that this was my opinion. Can I not express my opinion? In order to fill in the blanks, to make a complete scenario – that does require speculation. But it is fact, ABSOLUTE FACT - that the odds of finding pure Ni62 in a sample are astronomical. Given that, a scam is the only probable scenario. From there on, follow the buck. I share some concerns about the temperature measurements and how they might influence the output power, but there is certainly no serious evidence that Rossi was able to impact the testing in a serious manner. Temperature is not my concern. In fact, the temperature measurement could be correct or even on the low side. The odds of finding pure Ni62 in a sample are astronomical. That is my problem. Why do you continue to suggest a scam of some type? The odds of finding pure Ni62 in a sample are astronomical. If anything happened in error I for one believe it was an honest mistake. The odds of finding pure Ni62 in a sample are astronomical. There is no room for honest mistake given that the testing was done two different ways by two different people with the same result. This isotope was salted into the sample. From there on, the details to make it fit together are speculation, but so is extending you paper model to an un-calibrated experiment which was improperly performed. Jones
Re: [Vo]:temperature of the resistor wire.
Bob, there may be a need for the type of behavior that you are describing, but I am looking for the simplest explanation. I plead ignorant to your description of an issue with the wires crossing over in some manner. In my imagination, I can see all three wires spiriling around in parallel without any cross overs. Perhaps I need to construct a model before I can get an accurate understanding of how this occurs. Have you performed that task? It appears to me that each resistor wire is terminated into a single external wire and I fail to see why that would be difficult to do. My visualization might be impaired! Dave -Original Message- From: Bob Higgins rj.bob.higg...@gmail.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Thu, Oct 16, 2014 12:41 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:temperature of the resistor wire. Dave, that was my first thought too, but in going over the construction of the heater coils, it turned out to be a pain to deal with the heater wire cross-overs. You would not do this just because you were planning to connect the array to a 3-phase supply. You could simply have an array of 3N, have single phase coils, and balance each phase with the single phase coils in the array device. To go to the trouble of making each unit 3-phase demands a better reason. I posted earlier that I believe that the 3-phase is specifically used to create a linear moving field (like a linear motor) to circulate the lithium plasma that likely forms at high temperature. This would make the device much more uniformly heated in the face of chaotic LENR occurring inside the reactor and would help avoid hot spots. Bob On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 10:13 AM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote: The three phase connection is not too surprising if we assume that many more of these units are to be mounted in a complete system. It would be extra work for Rossi to construct a new device using only one phase for the scientists to measure. I give him a pass on this point.
RE: [Vo]:temperature of the resistor wire.
BTW Dave, No matter how strongly you believe in the phenomenon of LENR, and I’m firmly in that camp – bad actors should be weeded out. Rossi is a bad actor here, even if he is only trying to protect his trade secret. We would all be better off if this report never surfaced. John Stuart Mill sez (courtesy of Gary Wright) “Let not any one pacify his conscience by the delusion that he can do no harm if he takes no part, and forms no opinion. Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on, and do nothing.” From: David Roberson Jones, what you write here is pure speculation. Dave - I made it clear that this was my opinion. Can I not express my opinion? In order to fill in the blanks, to make a complete scenario – that does require speculation. But it is fact, ABSOLUTE FACT - that the odds of finding pure Ni62 in a sample are astronomical. Given that, a scam is the only probable scenario. From there on, follow the buck. I share some concerns about the temperature measurements and how they might influence the output power, but there is certainly no serious evidence that Rossi was able to impact the testing in a serious manner. Temperature is not my concern. In fact, the temperature measurement could be correct or even on the low side. The odds of finding pure Ni62 in a sample are astronomical. That is my problem. Why do you continue to suggest a scam of some type? The odds of finding pure Ni62 in a sample are astronomical. If anything happened in error I for one believe it was an honest mistake. The odds of finding pure Ni62 in a sample are astronomical. There is no room for honest mistake given that the testing was done two different ways by two different people with the same result. This isotope was salted into the sample. From there on, the details to make it fit together are speculation, but so is extending you paper model to an un-calibrated experiment which was improperly performed. Jones
Re: [Vo]:Engineering and materials issues with high temperature hot-cat Lugano demo
The tread [Vo]:coherent perfect absorption explains how a polariton condensate can be sustained by intense pumping and huge densities of polaritons. The positive feedback of nuclear energy through superabsorbtion takes polariton densities to very high densities and thus high temperatures as that energy is converted entirely to the production of new polaritons. On a polariton BEC is established it has nowhere to go but up in temperature. On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 12:59 PM, Bob Higgins rj.bob.higg...@gmail.com wrote: Seems to me that at the temperatures we are talking about (1000C) that bulk magnetic effects are probably out of the question. A plasma of Li would be a conductor and a conductor could be conveyed in a moving magnetic field. I don't think any motion will occur because of any bulk magnetic affects - these are all gone at this temperature. This temperature also makes it difficult to consider magnetically confined condensates as Yeong Kim has described. On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 10:50 AM, Bob Cook frobertc...@hotmail.com wrote: Bob. Amaud, etal-- I had the same thought as Amaud. The wiring arrangement may be deigned to create a magnetic field inside the reactor to align magnetic moments of the various entities and facilitate resonant interactions at varying probabilities to control the rate of reaction. Bob Cook - Original Message - *From:* Arnaud Kodeck arnaud.kod...@lakoco.be *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com *Sent:* Thursday, October 16, 2014 8:10 AM *Subject:* RE: [Vo]:Engineering and materials issues with high temperature hot-cat Lugano demo Bob, Just a thought. I’m not an expert of magnetic confinement of plasma. But, the « encaps » might contain a proper wires configuration to close the rotating magnetic field formed by the 3 phases current. Arnaud -- *From:* Bob Higgins [mailto:rj.bob.higg...@gmail.com] *Sent:* jeudi 16 octobre 2014 17:05 *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:Engineering and materials issues with high temperature hot-cat Lugano demo I am pretty sure these endcaps are just mechanical supports for the hot tube in the middle. They are large alumina outer rings that have been filled with a cast-able refractory insulation such as a Vitcast 1200 INS or Vitcast 1400 INS-H. They insulate the mounting apparatus from the hot radiating tube. They serve no other function. The wires don't go through these and they do not seal the ends. They are just supports. On Wed, Oct 15, 2014 at 11:32 PM, Eric Walker eric.wal...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Oct 15, 2014 at 9:24 AM, Bob Higgins rj.bob.higg...@gmail.com wrote: I believe the large tubes on the end to be thermally insulating supports for the hot central 2 cm tube. A question that came to me was whether the alumina endcaps could be replaced with metal endcaps of a suitable alloy in the context of a larger array of devices, in order to provide a suitable path out for the heat to be used to generate steam. Another question I have is how much thermal load one of these devices can handle. Eric
Re: [Vo]:temperature of the resistor wire.
Jones-please continue to speculate about new thoughts as that is our best method of getting to the truth. I get a bit concerned when I hear you speak of scams. You apparently have drawn that conclusion at this point due to the isotope measurements and that is certainly strange. But, have you considered that something unusual is happening to the fuel that perhaps enabled the enriched Ni62 to be expelled but trapped most of the other material? Strange things happen in the universe, some of which defy explanation until the complete picture is obtained. You have a right to question occurrences that do not add up, but I hope that you will avoid using the 's' word until it has been proven. Dave -Original Message- From: Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Thu, Oct 16, 2014 1:27 pm Subject: RE: [Vo]:temperature of the resistor wire. From:David Roberson Jones, what you write here is pure speculation. Dave - I made it clearthat this was my opinion. Can I not express my opinion? In order to fill in theblanks, to make a complete scenario – that does require speculation. But it is fact, ABSOLUTEFACT - that the odds of finding pure Ni62 in a sample are astronomical. Giventhat, a scam is the only probable scenario. From there on, follow the buck. I share some concerns about the temperature measurements and howthey might influence the output power, but there is certainly no seriousevidence that Rossi was able to impact the testing in a serious manner. Temperature is not myconcern. In fact, the temperature measurement could be correct or even on thelow side. The odds of finding pure Ni62 in a sample are astronomical. That ismy problem. Why do you continue to suggest a scam of some type? The odds of finding pureNi62 in a sample are astronomical. If anything happened in error I for one believe it was an honestmistake. The odds of finding pureNi62 in a sample are astronomical. There is no room for honest mistake giventhat the testing was done two different ways by two different people with thesame result. This isotope was saltedinto the sample. From there on, the details to make it fit together are speculation,but so is extending you paper model to an un-calibrated experiment which wasimproperly performed. Jones
Re: [Vo]:temperature of the resistor wire.
Dave, I like the idea of a triply wound helix, but I will have to think about whether it would provide the same kind of conveyor moving field - it may. It would solve the cross-over issues of the coils. It is the non-axial components of the field that would seem to be at play in both cases - triple helix or three successive axial coils. On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 11:29 AM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote: Bob, there may be a need for the type of behavior that you are describing, but I am looking for the simplest explanation. I plead ignorant to your description of an issue with the wires crossing over in some manner. In my imagination, I can see all three wires spiriling around in parallel without any cross overs. Perhaps I need to construct a model before I can get an accurate understanding of how this occurs. Have you performed that task? It appears to me that each resistor wire is terminated into a single external wire and I fail to see why that would be difficult to do. My visualization might be impaired! Dave -Original Message- From: Bob Higgins rj.bob.higg...@gmail.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Thu, Oct 16, 2014 12:41 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:temperature of the resistor wire. Dave, that was my first thought too, but in going over the construction of the heater coils, it turned out to be a pain to deal with the heater wire cross-overs. You would not do this just because you were planning to connect the array to a 3-phase supply. You could simply have an array of 3N, have single phase coils, and balance each phase with the single phase coils in the array device. To go to the trouble of making each unit 3-phase demands a better reason. I posted earlier that I believe that the 3-phase is specifically used to create a linear moving field (like a linear motor) to circulate the lithium plasma that likely forms at high temperature. This would make the device much more uniformly heated in the face of chaotic LENR occurring inside the reactor and would help avoid hot spots. Bob On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 10:13 AM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote: The three phase connection is not too surprising if we assume that many more of these units are to be mounted in a complete system. It would be extra work for Rossi to construct a new device using only one phase for the scientists to measure. I give him a pass on this point.
[Vo]:Failure to fulfil the Galileo test
Hi all If you refuse to look through the telescope then you have failed the Galileo test; you have stopped being a scientist and practising a religion. A little classical style play from 20,000 years ago. Prometheus (An inventor and log bridge builder) I have invented fire! Stephan Pomp, (A priest of the God Pathoskepsis) Don't speak rubbish! Fire can only come from lightning or volcanoes. The Gods theory clearly states fire only comes from the Gods in Volcanoes and lightning Prometheus I have, I just rub these sticks together see smoke! Stephan Pomp You’re trying to scam people by selling those sticks Prometheus I am not selling any one sticks you pick sticks up off the ground they fall off trees Stephan Pomp I have just broke some branches off a tree I am getting no smoke, your trying to scam us there is a hidden pipe to a volcano that produces your smoke. Prometheus “What pipe where? Stephan Pomp That is what your scam is, you just hid the pipe probably underground or out of that bear skin you wear. The Gods theory clearly states fire only comes from the Gods in Volcanoes and lightning Prometheus Ok I will give my sticks to Ugg the great hunter, he can show it is working Stephan Pomp The Gods theory clearly states fire only comes from the Gods in Volcanoes and lightning Ugg Look I am getting smoke too! Stephan Pomp Ugg got fooled by Prometheus, who also made clay pots and the pots broke and the chief’s wife got upset and the Chief tied Prometheus to the tree so the birds could peck him, the sticks had hidden smoke in them through a tube Prometheus connected to the ground when he was showing Ugg the magic way to rub the sticks together. The Gods theory clearly states fire only comes from the Gods in Volcanoes and lightning Prometheus The Chief did not tie me to the tree; he threatened to because I did not pay him half my hunt, the pots did break, but everyone uses pots now, just loads of other people make them and this has got nothing to do with fire out of sticks. Stephan Pomp You cannot get fire from sticks I tried, it is unrepeatable and The Gods theory clearly states fire only comes from the Gods in Volcanoes and lightning Prometheus You tried with green wood from green trees, try it with dry wood off the ground Stephan Pomp Now you tell us there is some special wood I told everyone this is a scam, see now he wants you to buy his special wood. You cannot get fire from sticks I tried, it is unrepeatable and The Gods theory clearly states fire only comes from the Gods in Volcanoes and lightning Prometheus I have invented fire! I am not just getting smoke any more I am getting embers! Ugg has repeated it! Stephan Pomp Ugg did not repeat it! Prometheus fooled him with a hidden pipe to a volcano and embers he had hidden in his bear skin! You cannot get fire from sticks I tried, it is unrepeatable and The Gods theory clearly states fire only comes from the Gods in Volcanoes and lightning Ugg Prometheus did not fool me. I got the smoke and embers all by myself after he showed me how to do it. Stephan Pomp Ugg did not repeat it! Ugg is getting old and is clearly senile, and any way he is friend of Prometheus so he must be in on the scam too. Prometheus and Ugg fooled us with a hidden pipe to a volcano and embers he had hidden in his bear skin! You cannot get fire from sticks I tried, it is unrepeatable and The Gods theory clearly states fire only comes from the Gods in Volcanoes and lightning Ugg I got Winga the farmer who invented grain and Grick the flint napper to all test rubbing sticks together, we tested it at Pinga the well diggers house so there is no possibility of smoke pipes, we all got smoke and embers from the sticks Prometheus gave us Stephan Pomp Ugg, Winga, Pinga and Grick did not repeat it! They are all getting old and clearly senile. Prometheus fooled them Prometheus touched the sticks, so it is not independent he must have put embers in the sticks! Ugg was probably in on it. You cannot get fire from sticks I tried, it is unrepeatable and The Gods theory clearly states fire only comes from the Gods in Volcanoes and lightning. Prometheus is a well-known scam artist who also made clay pots and the pots broke and the chief’s wife got upset and the Chief tied Prometheus to the tree so the birds could peck him Ugg, Winga, Pinga and Grick Even if he could hide the embers in the sticks where did the smoke come from? Stephan Pomp Ugg, Winga, Pinga and Grick did not repeat it! The smoke cannot be measured by sniffing it and seeing it. It has to be captured in a great special pig skin that you pipe through water, like I do for the great smoke festival. Ugg, Winga, Pinga and Grick are all getting old and clearly senile. Prometheus fooled them with Ugg’s help and embers he had hidden in the sticks! You cannot get fire from sticks I tried, it is unrepeatable and The Gods theory clearly states fire only comes from the Gods in Volcanoes and lightning. Prometheus is a well-known scam artist
[Vo]:E-cat test: Using the 800W as calibration, +100W as test
Hi all, again I try to prepare arguments for deniers. Precision is not my problem... The problem with the e-cat test, as McKubre said is tha the calibration was not at 1250C/1400C but at 450C now if you are sincerely skeptic, and not totally conspiracy theorist, you have to admit that the powermeter are right, and that the IR cam have only a potential problem with emissivity tables (not transparency). assuming the reactor is a COP1 load. assuming the dummy was a different component (magic oil to change it's emissivity and electric behavior) consider the first phase of the test at 800W as a calibration of a COP1 reactor. what can you conclude of the +100W increase of power creating +200K of apparent temperature integrating magic convection (bigger or smaller as long as possible), changing emissivity that is realist, what can you conclude ? naively removing convection I interpret the +12% of power as causing 3% increase of temperature in kelvin, about 45K, and not the 150K observed how can this excusion exist with a COP1 ? is it possible ? what should be the emissivity change? convection change ?
Re: [Vo]:Failure to fulfil the Galileo test
dear Ian, Nice, why you do not send it to my blog Ego Out - I publish guest editorials with pleasure.and I like the idea. Peter On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 8:53 PM, Ian Walker walker...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all If you refuse to look through the telescope then you have failed the Galileo test; you have stopped being a scientist and practising a religion. A little classical style play from 20,000 years ago. Prometheus (An inventor and log bridge builder) I have invented fire! Stephan Pomp, (A priest of the God Pathoskepsis) Don't speak rubbish! Fire can only come from lightning or volcanoes. The Gods theory clearly states fire only comes from the Gods in Volcanoes and lightning Prometheus I have, I just rub these sticks together see smoke! Stephan Pomp You’re trying to scam people by selling those sticks Prometheus I am not selling any one sticks you pick sticks up off the ground they fall off trees Stephan Pomp I have just broke some branches off a tree I am getting no smoke, your trying to scam us there is a hidden pipe to a volcano that produces your smoke. Prometheus “What pipe where? Stephan Pomp That is what your scam is, you just hid the pipe probably underground or out of that bear skin you wear. The Gods theory clearly states fire only comes from the Gods in Volcanoes and lightning Prometheus Ok I will give my sticks to Ugg the great hunter, he can show it is working Stephan Pomp The Gods theory clearly states fire only comes from the Gods in Volcanoes and lightning Ugg Look I am getting smoke too! Stephan Pomp Ugg got fooled by Prometheus, who also made clay pots and the pots broke and the chief’s wife got upset and the Chief tied Prometheus to the tree so the birds could peck him, the sticks had hidden smoke in them through a tube Prometheus connected to the ground when he was showing Ugg the magic way to rub the sticks together. The Gods theory clearly states fire only comes from the Gods in Volcanoes and lightning Prometheus The Chief did not tie me to the tree; he threatened to because I did not pay him half my hunt, the pots did break, but everyone uses pots now, just loads of other people make them and this has got nothing to do with fire out of sticks. Stephan Pomp You cannot get fire from sticks I tried, it is unrepeatable and The Gods theory clearly states fire only comes from the Gods in Volcanoes and lightning Prometheus You tried with green wood from green trees, try it with dry wood off the ground Stephan Pomp Now you tell us there is some special wood I told everyone this is a scam, see now he wants you to buy his special wood. You cannot get fire from sticks I tried, it is unrepeatable and The Gods theory clearly states fire only comes from the Gods in Volcanoes and lightning Prometheus I have invented fire! I am not just getting smoke any more I am getting embers! Ugg has repeated it! Stephan Pomp Ugg did not repeat it! Prometheus fooled him with a hidden pipe to a volcano and embers he had hidden in his bear skin! You cannot get fire from sticks I tried, it is unrepeatable and The Gods theory clearly states fire only comes from the Gods in Volcanoes and lightning Ugg Prometheus did not fool me. I got the smoke and embers all by myself after he showed me how to do it. Stephan Pomp Ugg did not repeat it! Ugg is getting old and is clearly senile, and any way he is friend of Prometheus so he must be in on the scam too. Prometheus and Ugg fooled us with a hidden pipe to a volcano and embers he had hidden in his bear skin! You cannot get fire from sticks I tried, it is unrepeatable and The Gods theory clearly states fire only comes from the Gods in Volcanoes and lightning Ugg I got Winga the farmer who invented grain and Grick the flint napper to all test rubbing sticks together, we tested it at Pinga the well diggers house so there is no possibility of smoke pipes, we all got smoke and embers from the sticks Prometheus gave us Stephan Pomp Ugg, Winga, Pinga and Grick did not repeat it! They are all getting old and clearly senile. Prometheus fooled them Prometheus touched the sticks, so it is not independent he must have put embers in the sticks! Ugg was probably in on it. You cannot get fire from sticks I tried, it is unrepeatable and The Gods theory clearly states fire only comes from the Gods in Volcanoes and lightning. Prometheus is a well-known scam artist who also made clay pots and the pots broke and the chief’s wife got upset and the Chief tied Prometheus to the tree so the birds could peck him Ugg, Winga, Pinga and Grick Even if he could hide the embers in the sticks where did the smoke come from? Stephan Pomp Ugg, Winga, Pinga and Grick did not repeat it! The smoke cannot be measured by sniffing it and seeing it. It has to be captured in a great special pig skin that you pipe through water, like I do for the great smoke festival. Ugg, Winga, Pinga and Grick are all getting old and clearly
RE: [Vo]:temperature of the resistor wire.
From: David Roberson * Jones-please continue to speculate about new thoughts as that is our best method of getting to the truth. I get a bit concerned when I hear you speak of scams. Please suggest a better word to describe the actions of an inventor – if he has a breakthrough which could benefit society hugely, resorts to dishonesty designed to protect details which he does not understand in hopes that other cannot benefit, instead of himself. Of course, if he has nothing at all it is a more obvious scam, but is there a euphemism for this subset? Would “quasi-scam” be more appropriate? This is not “victimless”. Would not society be better off if Rossi chose to reveal nothing? This level of deceptive conduct could actually be more despicable than the blatant TV scams such as Acai berries, diet pills, Miss Cleo or the Video Professor - since it is designed to keep intelligent people and researchers in the field from finding the truth, instead of merely enriching the scammer at the expense of the gullible. * You apparently have drawn that conclusion at this point due to the isotope measurements and that is certainly strange. But, have you considered that something unusual is happening to the fuel that perhaps enabled the enriched Ni62 to be expelled but trapped most of the other material? Yes, I have agonized over this for many days – scouring the technical journals, hoping to find any glimmer of an alternative scenario which would not imply intentional deception. There is none. Again, let me paraphrase JSM: it is delusion that one can do no harm if he sits back, observes and forms no opinion. Dishonest men need nothing more than that good men should stay silent and do nothing. Dave - I made it clear that this was my opinion. Can I not express my opinion? In order to fill in the blanks, to make a complete scenario – that does require speculation. But it is fact, ABSOLUTE FACT - that the odds of finding pure Ni62 in a sample are astronomical. Given that, a scam is the only probable scenario. From there on, follow the buck. I share some concerns about the temperature measurements and how they might influence the output power, but there is certainly no serious evidence that Rossi was able to impact the testing in a serious manner. Temperature is not my concern. In fact, the temperature measurement could be correct or even on the low side. The odds of finding pure Ni62 in a sample are astronomical. That is my problem. Why do you continue to suggest a scam of some type? The odds of finding pure Ni62 in a sample are astronomical. If anything happened in error I for one believe it was an honest mistake. The odds of finding pure Ni62 in a sample are astronomical. There is no room for honest mistake given that the testing was done two different ways by two different people with the same result. This isotope was salted into the sample. From there on, the details to make it fit together are speculation, but so is extending you paper model to an un-calibrated experiment which was improperly performed. Jones attachment: winmail.dat
Re: [Vo]:Aviation Week and the Lockheed Fusion Reactor
On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 10:54 AM, Alan Fletcher a...@well.com wrote: On Gibb's Site -- NO! Not Gibbsite !!! http://www.networkworld.com/article/2834452/data-center/lockheed-martins-cfr-a-hot-fusion-breakthrough-for-power-generation.html he notes that the disposal problem of 10's of thousands of dead reactors is non-trivial. Lockheed believes that the reactor will run for a year on just 55 lbs of deuterium and tritium, both of which, compared to a fission reactor’s fuel, are plentiful, easily produced, and very cheap. Producing tritium is cheap??!? This will be news to the DoE.
[Vo]:A short issue of CONFRONT JOURNAL
Dear Readers, Polarization regarding the Rossi Report is almost completed. The open problem remain open. Less events take place I published anyway: http://egooutpeters.blogspot.ro/2014/10/lenr-confront-journal-october-16-2014.html In the final part I am asking for your help. Peter -- Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
RE: [Vo]:temperature of the resistor wire.
Jones: I thought you were a lawyer, what you discuss isn’t fraud.So for example, let’s say Rossi knew that by setting up the constraints associated with testing the ash, (1% from stuff that fell out), everyone would be misled as to what was actually happening. That’s more appropriately described as protecting your IP. It isn’t actionable and I am not even sure it is unethical. We have no right to IH’s IP. Misleading you may be good business and you are not in privity. Now if the whole thing doesn’t really work, now that is a horse of a different color, but even then we wouldn’t be wronged. The parties with rights would be those in privity, IH, any other investors. I doubt even the testers would have an actionable right, but it would be possible depending on the agreement. Ransom _ From: Jones Beene [mailto:jone...@pacbell.net] Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2014 1:58 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: [Vo]:temperature of the resistor wire. From: David Roberson * Jones-please continue to speculate about new thoughts as that is our best method of getting to the truth. I get a bit concerned when I hear you speak of scams. Please suggest a better word to describe the actions of an inventor – if he has a breakthrough which could benefit society hugely, resorts to dishonesty designed to protect details which he does not understand in hopes that other cannot benefit, instead of himself. Of course, if he has nothing at all it is a more obvious scam, but is there a euphemism for this subset? Would “quasi-scam” be more appropriate? This is not “victimless”. Would not society be better off if Rossi chose to reveal nothing? This level of deceptive conduct could actually be more despicable than the blatant TV scams such as Acai berries, diet pills, Miss Cleo or the Video Professor - since it is designed to keep intelligent people and researchers in the field from finding the truth, instead of merely enriching the scammer at the expense of the gullible. * You apparently have drawn that conclusion at this point due to the isotope measurements and that is certainly strange. But, have you considered that something unusual is happening to the fuel that perhaps enabled the enriched Ni62 to be expelled but trapped most of the other material? Yes, I have agonized over this for many days – scouring the technical journals, hoping to find any glimmer of an alternative scenario which would not imply intentional deception. There is none. Again, let me paraphrase JSM: it is delusion that one can do no harm if he sits back, observes and forms no opinion. Dishonest men need nothing more than that good men should stay silent and do nothing. Dave - I made it clear that this was my opinion. Can I not express my opinion? In order to fill in the blanks, to make a complete scenario – that does require speculation. But it is fact, ABSOLUTE FACT - that the odds of finding pure Ni62 in a sample are astronomical. Given that, a scam is the only probable scenario. From there on, follow the buck. I share some concerns about the temperature measurements and how they might influence the output power, but there is certainly no serious evidence that Rossi was able to impact the testing in a serious manner. Temperature is not my concern. In fact, the temperature measurement could be correct or even on the low side. The odds of finding pure Ni62 in a sample are astronomical. That is my problem. Why do you continue to suggest a scam of some type? The odds of finding pure Ni62 in a sample are astronomical. If anything happened in error I for one believe it was an honest mistake. The odds of finding pure Ni62 in a sample are astronomical. There is no room for honest mistake given that the testing was done two different ways by two different people with the same result. This isotope was salted into the sample. From there on, the details to make it fit together are speculation, but so is extending you paper model to an un-calibrated experiment which was improperly performed. Jones attachment: winmail.dat
RE: [Vo]:temperature of the resistor wire.
From: Randy Wuller So for example, let’s say Rossi knew that by setting up the constraints associated with testing the ash, (1% from stuff that fell out), everyone would be misled as to what was actually happening. That’s more appropriately described as protecting your IP. Randy - I never said anything about a crime. Why are you? None of the TV scams I mentioned were prosecuted as a crime, as far as I know. If dishonesty was a crime, we would have to lock up half of the politicians in DC. Make that: more than half. And also - aren’t you assuming that he is not misleading his funder, as well? Would your opinion change if you found out that his royalty agreement was a long-term deal structured around performance milestones? I have no idea what his deal consists of, but I doubt if he can walk away with a large sum without some kind of verification that the device actually works. It is normal business practice with many inventions that a large portion of the total royalty payment will in escrow pending milestones and/or will be delayed until cash-flow starts, meaning that a commercial product emerges. Jones attachment: winmail.dat
RE: [Vo]:Engineering and materials issues with high temperature hot-cat Lugano demo
So why then does Rossi use a 3phases electrical power source? For such kind of power this not needed. 1000W uses less than 5A. So my guess is that Rossi uses the Rotating magnetic field in its Ecat (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotating_magnetic_field ). In this schema, the end caps could be a magnetic mirror (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_mirror ). In this configuration the Ni and Li plasma can't get out of the confinement and the 3 phases give also a rotation to this field. But I'm not an expert in magnetic confinement and how to achieve it. _ From: Bob Higgins [mailto:rj.bob.higg...@gmail.com] Sent: jeudi 16 octobre 2014 19:00 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Engineering and materials issues with high temperature hot-cat Lugano demo Seems to me that at the temperatures we are talking about (1000C) that bulk magnetic effects are probably out of the question. A plasma of Li would be a conductor and a conductor could be conveyed in a moving magnetic field. I don't think any motion will occur because of any bulk magnetic affects - these are all gone at this temperature. This temperature also makes it difficult to consider magnetically confined condensates as Yeong Kim has described. On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 10:50 AM, Bob Cook frobertc...@hotmail.com wrote: Bob. Amaud, etal-- I had the same thought as Amaud. The wiring arrangement may be deigned to create a magnetic field inside the reactor to align magnetic moments of the various entities and facilitate resonant interactions at varying probabilities to control the rate of reaction. Bob Cook - Original Message - From: Arnaud Kodeck mailto:arnaud.kod...@lakoco.be To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2014 8:10 AM Subject: RE: [Vo]:Engineering and materials issues with high temperature hot-cat Lugano demo Bob, Just a thought. I'm not an expert of magnetic confinement of plasma. But, the encaps might contain a proper wires configuration to close the rotating magnetic field formed by the 3 phases current. Arnaud _ From: Bob Higgins [mailto:rj.bob.higg...@gmail.com] Sent: jeudi 16 octobre 2014 17:05 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Engineering and materials issues with high temperature hot-cat Lugano demo I am pretty sure these endcaps are just mechanical supports for the hot tube in the middle. They are large alumina outer rings that have been filled with a cast-able refractory insulation such as a Vitcast 1200 INS or Vitcast 1400 INS-H. They insulate the mounting apparatus from the hot radiating tube. They serve no other function. The wires don't go through these and they do not seal the ends. They are just supports. On Wed, Oct 15, 2014 at 11:32 PM, Eric Walker eric.wal...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Oct 15, 2014 at 9:24 AM, Bob Higgins rj.bob.higg...@gmail.com wrote: I believe the large tubes on the end to be thermally insulating supports for the hot central 2 cm tube. A question that came to me was whether the alumina endcaps could be replaced with metal endcaps of a suitable alloy in the context of a larger array of devices, in order to provide a suitable path out for the heat to be used to generate steam. Another question I have is how much thermal load one of these devices can handle. Eric
Re: [Vo]:Engineering and materials issues with high temperature hot-cat Lugano demo
I think we are describing pretty much the same thing. Only I don't believe there is anything but refractory castable insulation in the large diameter support cylinders at the end of the convection tube. I think the heater coils are axial and the 3-phase drive produces a linear conveyer, which when it gets to the physical end of the tube will fold in on itself coaxially. Moving field is the reason for the 3-phase drive. On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 2:19 PM, Arnaud Kodeck arnaud.kod...@lakoco.be wrote: So why then does Rossi use a 3phases electrical power source? For such kind of power this not needed. 1000W uses less than 5A. So my guess is that Rossi uses the Rotating magnetic field in its Ecat ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotating_magnetic_field ). In this schema, the end caps could be a magnetic mirror ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_mirror ). In this configuration the Ni and Li plasma can’t get out of the confinement and the 3 phases give also a rotation to this field. But I’m not an expert in magnetic confinement and how to achieve it. -- *From:* Bob Higgins [mailto:rj.bob.higg...@gmail.com] *Sent:* jeudi 16 octobre 2014 19:00 *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:Engineering and materials issues with high temperature hot-cat Lugano demo Seems to me that at the temperatures we are talking about (1000C) that bulk magnetic effects are probably out of the question. A plasma of Li would be a conductor and a conductor could be conveyed in a moving magnetic field. I don't think any motion will occur because of any bulk magnetic affects - these are all gone at this temperature. This temperature also makes it difficult to consider magnetically confined condensates as Yeong Kim has described. On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 10:50 AM, Bob Cook frobertc...@hotmail.com wrote: Bob. Amaud, etal-- I had the same thought as Amaud. The wiring arrangement may be deigned to create a magnetic field inside the reactor to align magnetic moments of the various entities and facilitate resonant interactions at varying probabilities to control the rate of reaction.
RE: [Vo]:temperature of the resistor wire.
Bob, I like your idea on the mixing plasma with the rotating field of a 3phases AC power supply. The heat is more homogeneous spread inside the reactor and create a flux. Moreover it may have an action on the reaction occurring in the eCat. Arnaud _ From: Bob Higgins [mailto:rj.bob.higg...@gmail.com] Sent: jeudi 16 octobre 2014 18:41 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:temperature of the resistor wire. Dave, that was my first thought too, but in going over the construction of the heater coils, it turned out to be a pain to deal with the heater wire cross-overs. You would not do this just because you were planning to connect the array to a 3-phase supply. You could simply have an array of 3N, have single phase coils, and balance each phase with the single phase coils in the array device. To go to the trouble of making each unit 3-phase demands a better reason. I posted earlier that I believe that the 3-phase is specifically used to create a linear moving field (like a linear motor) to circulate the lithium plasma that likely forms at high temperature. This would make the device much more uniformly heated in the face of chaotic LENR occurring inside the reactor and would help avoid hot spots. Bob On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 10:13 AM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote: The three phase connection is not too surprising if we assume that many more of these units are to be mounted in a complete system. It would be extra work for Rossi to construct a new device using only one phase for the scientists to measure. I give him a pass on this point.
RE: [Vo]:Engineering and materials issues with high temperature hot-cat Lugano demo
The next question is a 3phases AC supply needed to reproduce the eCat effect? The cold eCat don't use a 3phases power supply but Rossi could have used magnet inside the cold eCat (Samarium cobalt magnet). _ From: Bob Higgins [mailto:rj.bob.higg...@gmail.com] Sent: jeudi 16 octobre 2014 22:31 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Engineering and materials issues with high temperature hot-cat Lugano demo I think we are describing pretty much the same thing. Only I don't believe there is anything but refractory castable insulation in the large diameter support cylinders at the end of the convection tube. I think the heater coils are axial and the 3-phase drive produces a linear conveyer, which when it gets to the physical end of the tube will fold in on itself coaxially. Moving field is the reason for the 3-phase drive. On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 2:19 PM, Arnaud Kodeck arnaud.kod...@lakoco.be wrote: So why then does Rossi use a 3phases electrical power source? For such kind of power this not needed. 1000W uses less than 5A. So my guess is that Rossi uses the Rotating magnetic field in its Ecat (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotating_magnetic_field ). In this schema, the end caps could be a magnetic mirror (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_mirror ). In this configuration the Ni and Li plasma can't get out of the confinement and the 3 phases give also a rotation to this field. But I'm not an expert in magnetic confinement and how to achieve it. _ From: Bob Higgins [mailto:rj.bob.higg...@gmail.com] Sent: jeudi 16 octobre 2014 19:00 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Engineering and materials issues with high temperature hot-cat Lugano demo Seems to me that at the temperatures we are talking about (1000C) that bulk magnetic effects are probably out of the question. A plasma of Li would be a conductor and a conductor could be conveyed in a moving magnetic field. I don't think any motion will occur because of any bulk magnetic affects - these are all gone at this temperature. This temperature also makes it difficult to consider magnetically confined condensates as Yeong Kim has described. On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 10:50 AM, Bob Cook frobertc...@hotmail.com wrote: Bob. Amaud, etal-- I had the same thought as Amaud. The wiring arrangement may be deigned to create a magnetic field inside the reactor to align magnetic moments of the various entities and facilitate resonant interactions at varying probabilities to control the rate of reaction.
RE: [Vo]:temperature of the resistor wire.
Jones: If it isn’t a crime it could still be the subject of a civil action, but if neither apply, what is it? Maybe there is some moral line crossed but I suggest the word scam is not the right one in that case. Ransom _ From: Jones Beene [mailto:jone...@pacbell.net] Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2014 3:11 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: [Vo]:temperature of the resistor wire. From: Randy Wuller So for example, let’s say Rossi knew that by setting up the constraints associated with testing the ash, (1% from stuff that fell out), everyone would be misled as to what was actually happening. That’s more appropriately described as protecting your IP. Randy - I never said anything about a crime. Why are you? None of the TV scams I mentioned were prosecuted as a crime, as far as I know. If dishonesty was a crime, we would have to lock up half of the politicians in DC. Make that: more than half. And also - aren’t you assuming that he is not misleading his funder, as well? Would your opinion change if you found out that his royalty agreement was a long-term deal structured around performance milestones? I have no idea what his deal consists of, but I doubt if he can walk away with a large sum without some kind of verification that the device actually works. It is normal business practice with many inventions that a large portion of the total royalty payment will in escrow pending milestones and/or will be delayed until cash-flow starts, meaning that a commercial product emerges. Jones attachment: winmail.dat
Re: [Vo]:Engineering and materials issues with high temperature hot-cat Lugano demo
I don't think there was anything this fancy in Rossi's original eCats. He had an internal cartridge heater which would have had little magnetic field escaping and it was single phase. He also had an auxiliary heater wrapped around the outside that would have had more magnetic field and it was also single phase. Who knows about a magnet? Are you thinking of the single phase light bulbs having the magnet causing the filament to wiggle back and forth for flicker effect? On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 2:44 PM, Arnaud Kodeck arnaud.kod...@lakoco.be wrote: The next question is a 3phases AC supply needed to reproduce the eCat effect? The cold eCat don’t use a 3phases power supply but Rossi could have used magnet inside the cold eCat (Samarium cobalt magnet). -- *From:* Bob Higgins [mailto:rj.bob.higg...@gmail.com] *Sent:* jeudi 16 octobre 2014 22:31 *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:Engineering and materials issues with high temperature hot-cat Lugano demo I think we are describing pretty much the same thing. Only I don't believe there is anything but refractory castable insulation in the large diameter support cylinders at the end of the convection tube. I think the heater coils are axial and the 3-phase drive produces a linear conveyer, which when it gets to the physical end of the tube will fold in on itself coaxially. Moving field is the reason for the 3-phase drive. On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 2:19 PM, Arnaud Kodeck arnaud.kod...@lakoco.be wrote: So why then does Rossi use a 3phases electrical power source? For such kind of power this not needed. 1000W uses less than 5A. So my guess is that Rossi uses the Rotating magnetic field in its Ecat ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotating_magnetic_field ). In this schema, the end caps could be a magnetic mirror ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_mirror ). In this configuration the Ni and Li plasma can’t get out of the confinement and the 3 phases give also a rotation to this field. But I’m not an expert in magnetic confinement and how to achieve it. -- *From:* Bob Higgins [mailto:rj.bob.higg...@gmail.com] *Sent:* jeudi 16 octobre 2014 19:00 *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:Engineering and materials issues with high temperature hot-cat Lugano demo Seems to me that at the temperatures we are talking about (1000C) that bulk magnetic effects are probably out of the question. A plasma of Li would be a conductor and a conductor could be conveyed in a moving magnetic field. I don't think any motion will occur because of any bulk magnetic affects - these are all gone at this temperature. This temperature also makes it difficult to consider magnetically confined condensates as Yeong Kim has described. On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 10:50 AM, Bob Cook frobertc...@hotmail.com wrote: Bob. Amaud, etal-- I had the same thought as Amaud. The wiring arrangement may be deigned to create a magnetic field inside the reactor to align magnetic moments of the various entities and facilitate resonant interactions at varying probabilities to control the rate of reaction.
Re: [Vo]:temperature of the resistor wire.
Axil, David etal-- I would have guessed that a vapor of Li metal (I am not sure a plasma would occur) may be a fairly good heat transfer agent, much like He works as a cooling fluid. I would be surprised if there were a 200 degree delta T between the edge of the reactor and its center. Delta T across the alumina vessel may be that 200 degrees, if the energy transfer is by photons generated by the reaction directly, rather than by lattice stimulation of the reacting material with its IR radiation, most of the heat may deposited in the reactor vessel (alumina) or escape through the vessel to the outside surroundings. Maybe Dave's calculation would be able to say what the delta T across the alumina would be with a given heat flux assuming published heat transfer coeff's for alumina. Helium gas is a good heat transfer agent and Li, being of low mass, would be almost as good. My thought about the reactor design is as follows: 1. The reactive material, Ni or some alloy of Ni is free in the vessel along with Li metal. 2. The external energy supply is an inductance heater as well as supplying an oscillating magnetic field--which is controlled to effect resonant conditions. 3. The reactants, Li and Ni nano particles, reach a temperature where the LENR happens when the magnetic field is appropriate and resonances match. 4. The reaction causes the release of photons of determined energy (a function of the magnetic field) with a change in the nuclear structure of the Li and the Ni isotopes reacting. These photons are relatively low energy and not gammas seen in classical nuclear transitions associated with high kinetic energy reactions or transitions of excited radioactive isotopes. 5. The temperature, or the combination of temperature and magnetic field strength, in the Ni nano particles control the rate of the reaction via a negative temperature coeff. much like a water cooled, U fueled, fission reactor. 6. As the free reactants are used up or become glued to the reactor vessel so that free mixing of the Ni and the Li is no longer possible, the LENR stops. 7. The electrical leads are not inconel, but are tungsten or other high temperature electrical conductor. I would not expect that corrosion is an issue with the alumina or the reactants. The wire conductors would have to hold up in a Li, nano Ni hot gas environment, however. Free O would be a problem for corrosion and may change the Ni so as to become non-reactive. Bob Cook - Original Message - From: Axil Axil To: vortex-l Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2014 9:40 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:temperature of the resistor wire. Dear David, It might be informative if your model could be modified to check the heat production of the nickel particles and their temperature and the flow of that heat from the central channel that encloses the nickel particles to the outside edge of the reactor some centimeters away so that that temperature is maintained at a steady 1400C. It seems to me intuitively that the temperature of those particles being less than one gram in weight can support the 1400C external temperature without approaching a temperature that is beyond the melting point of nickel. I figure that there is a delta T of about 200C involved between the heat production zone and the outside edge of the reactor. That puts the nickel particles at 1600C or greater. The particles should have all melted. Something does not make sense in this regard considering that these nickel particles are receiving 900 watts of thermal stimulation in addition to the heat that they are generating through the LENR reaction. On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 12:13 PM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote: The three phase connection is not too surprising if we assume that many more of these units are to be mounted in a complete system. It would be extra work for Rossi to construct a new device using only one phase for the scientists to measure. I give him a pass on this point. In the past I have dedicated a great deal of effort toward proving that the input power can be calculated by only considering the fundamental component of the input current. Power from a sinewave source can only be extracted by the current that is flowing at the same frequency as the source voltage. You can look this up in text books if you are curious. Briefly, power delivered from a sine wave source is determined by taking the product of the RMS voltage at that frequency and multiplying it by the RMS current at the same frequency while taking the phase difference into account. Any DC or harmonic currents entering the device due to internal effects are not able to change that calculation except for how they might enter into changing the current at the fundamental. I have made spice models of the current problem that you are mentioning and proved that this assertion is
RE: [Vo]:Engineering and materials issues with high temperature hot-cat Lugano demo
What happens inside the eCat isnt known. A magnetic field can be required (And most probably it is the case). For the cold eCat, Rossi may have used a magnet for the sake of simplicity. The wiggly filament let me think of a 2 magnetic fields that can occur inside the eCat: One global field made from AC current (cm range) and one local field made with the Rossi Italian secret sauce (µm range). Could the the wiggly secret powder sauce hit the liquefied nickel and force it for the stripping neutron with nickel? The local force might be huge enough. I remember Rossi (2~3 years back) telling that it was an oscillating phenomenon inside the eCat. _ From: Bob Higgins [mailto:rj.bob.higg...@gmail.com] Sent: jeudi 16 octobre 2014 22:51 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Engineering and materials issues with high temperature hot-cat Lugano demo I don't think there was anything this fancy in Rossi's original eCats. He had an internal cartridge heater which would have had little magnetic field escaping and it was single phase. He also had an auxiliary heater wrapped around the outside that would have had more magnetic field and it was also single phase. Who knows about a magnet? Are you thinking of the single phase light bulbs having the magnet causing the filament to wiggle back and forth for flicker effect? On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 2:44 PM, Arnaud Kodeck arnaud.kod...@lakoco.be wrote: The next question is a 3phases AC supply needed to reproduce the eCat effect? The cold eCat dont use a 3phases power supply but Rossi could have used magnet inside the cold eCat (Samarium cobalt magnet). _ From: Bob Higgins [mailto:rj.bob.higg...@gmail.com] Sent: jeudi 16 octobre 2014 22:31 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Engineering and materials issues with high temperature hot-cat Lugano demo I think we are describing pretty much the same thing. Only I don't believe there is anything but refractory castable insulation in the large diameter support cylinders at the end of the convection tube. I think the heater coils are axial and the 3-phase drive produces a linear conveyer, which when it gets to the physical end of the tube will fold in on itself coaxially. Moving field is the reason for the 3-phase drive. On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 2:19 PM, Arnaud Kodeck arnaud.kod...@lakoco.be wrote: So why then does Rossi use a 3phases electrical power source? For such kind of power this not needed. 1000W uses less than 5A. So my guess is that Rossi uses the Rotating magnetic field in its Ecat (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotating_magnetic_field ). In this schema, the end caps could be a magnetic mirror (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_mirror ). In this configuration the Ni and Li plasma cant get out of the confinement and the 3 phases give also a rotation to this field. But Im not an expert in magnetic confinement and how to achieve it. _ From: Bob Higgins [mailto:rj.bob.higg...@gmail.com] Sent: jeudi 16 octobre 2014 19:00 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Engineering and materials issues with high temperature hot-cat Lugano demo Seems to me that at the temperatures we are talking about (1000C) that bulk magnetic effects are probably out of the question. A plasma of Li would be a conductor and a conductor could be conveyed in a moving magnetic field. I don't think any motion will occur because of any bulk magnetic affects - these are all gone at this temperature. This temperature also makes it difficult to consider magnetically confined condensates as Yeong Kim has described. On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 10:50 AM, Bob Cook frobertc...@hotmail.com wrote: Bob. Amaud, etal-- I had the same thought as Amaud. The wiring arrangement may be deigned to create a magnetic field inside the reactor to align magnetic moments of the various entities and facilitate resonant interactions at varying probabilities to control the rate of reaction.
Re: [Vo]:Failure to fulfil the Galileo test
woh well said. now he accuse Ugg of having beaten his wife and hidden his pile of dry wood from the locals... which prove fire does not exist... note that Pomp state that denying hand-fire and ugg is not the same... but ugg making fire with hand is extraordinary... because hand-fire is forbidden by gods. but he says only on ugg... the trick to make those guys stop denying is 1- do you agree lenr is real - NO- it is proven by scientific method, replication, publications, improvement you are a an anti-science , bye. - YES : ok so what is extraordinary in Rossi's work ? you have non extraordinary evidence, but even if there is clear imperfection in all test, some point need extraordinary artifact to explain the result... since LENR is not extraordinary, this is a better explanation... 2-do you think it is a fraud or since measurement : - FRAUD ? but why did he let 2 times (1=0 Peter, you are right) scientists alone with his reactor, free to bring thermocouple, DC volmeter, HF meters, RMS clamps, wattmeters, air calorimeter... IR cam... free to touch, to view with IR cam, wires and box... no magician is crazy enough to let a trick uncontrolled in the hand of witness... you are a conspiracy theorist ... bye - NO FRAUD : ok, more or less honest or deluded... 3-do you think it is an artifact or not ? an error by the testers ? - YES artifact! but why would rossi give something that don't work, checked by his team and his boss, to people who can by mistake make a good measurement, and two times ? it is a conspiracy of stupidity, of incompetence and bad luck... you are a conspiracy theorist ... - NO ... so it works, more or less... WELCOME we have to be cautious as not all measurement are perfect and some detail on stability may be missing and annoying... it may even fail sometime, or be unusable... but it is real and may be improved. 2014-10-16 19:53 GMT+02:00 Ian Walker walker...@gmail.com: Hi all If you refuse to look through the telescope then you have failed the Galileo test; you have stopped being a scientist and practising a religion. A little classical style play from 20,000 years ago. Prometheus (An inventor and log bridge builder) I have invented fire! Stephan Pomp, (A priest of the God Pathoskepsis) Don't speak rubbish! Fire can only come from lightning or volcanoes. The Gods theory clearly states fire only comes from the Gods in Volcanoes and lightning Prometheus I have, I just rub these sticks together see smoke! Stephan Pomp You’re trying to scam people by selling those sticks Prometheus I am not selling any one sticks you pick sticks up off the ground they fall off trees Stephan Pomp I have just broke some branches off a tree I am getting no smoke, your trying to scam us there is a hidden pipe to a volcano that produces your smoke. Prometheus “What pipe where? Stephan Pomp That is what your scam is, you just hid the pipe probably underground or out of that bear skin you wear. The Gods theory clearly states fire only comes from the Gods in Volcanoes and lightning Prometheus Ok I will give my sticks to Ugg the great hunter, he can show it is working Stephan Pomp The Gods theory clearly states fire only comes from the Gods in Volcanoes and lightning Ugg Look I am getting smoke too! Stephan Pomp Ugg got fooled by Prometheus, who also made clay pots and the pots broke and the chief’s wife got upset and the Chief tied Prometheus to the tree so the birds could peck him, the sticks had hidden smoke in them through a tube Prometheus connected to the ground when he was showing Ugg the magic way to rub the sticks together. The Gods theory clearly states fire only comes from the Gods in Volcanoes and lightning Prometheus The Chief did not tie me to the tree; he threatened to because I did not pay him half my hunt, the pots did break, but everyone uses pots now, just loads of other people make them and this has got nothing to do with fire out of sticks. Stephan Pomp You cannot get fire from sticks I tried, it is unrepeatable and The Gods theory clearly states fire only comes from the Gods in Volcanoes and lightning Prometheus You tried with green wood from green trees, try it with dry wood off the ground Stephan Pomp Now you tell us there is some special wood I told everyone this is a scam, see now he wants you to buy his special wood. You cannot get fire from sticks I tried, it is unrepeatable and The Gods theory clearly states fire only comes from the Gods in Volcanoes and lightning Prometheus I have invented fire! I am not just getting smoke any more I am getting embers! Ugg has repeated it! Stephan Pomp Ugg did not repeat it! Prometheus fooled him with a hidden pipe to a volcano and embers he had hidden in his bear skin! You cannot get fire from sticks I tried, it is unrepeatable and The Gods theory clearly states fire only comes from the Gods in Volcanoes and lightning Ugg Prometheus did not fool me. I got the smoke and
Re: [Vo]:Engineering and materials issues with high temperature hot-cat Lugano demo
one things to notice on triphase speculation previous e-cat where mono phase. triphase is easier to manage in industrial resort. beside rotating field as in an engine, triphase allows to make an absolutely constant power (the sum of instantaneous power of 3 phase is constant)... however the triac dimmer kill that. my bet is that it allow to balance the load better with 3 phase. it is an industrial device, thus 3phase. 2014-10-16 23:16 GMT+02:00 Arnaud Kodeck arnaud.kod...@lakoco.be: What happens inside the eCat isn’t known. A magnetic field can be required (And most probably it is the case). For the cold eCat, Rossi may have used a magnet for the sake of simplicity. The wiggly filament let me think of a 2 magnetic fields that can occur inside the eCat: One global field made from AC current (cm range) and one local field made with the Rossi Italian secret sauce (µm range). Could the the wiggly secret powder sauce hit the liquefied nickel and force it for the stripping neutron with nickel? The local force might be huge enough. I remember Rossi (2~3 years back) telling that it was an oscillating phenomenon inside the eCat. -- *From:* Bob Higgins [mailto:rj.bob.higg...@gmail.com] *Sent:* jeudi 16 octobre 2014 22:51 *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:Engineering and materials issues with high temperature hot-cat Lugano demo I don't think there was anything this fancy in Rossi's original eCats. He had an internal cartridge heater which would have had little magnetic field escaping and it was single phase. He also had an auxiliary heater wrapped around the outside that would have had more magnetic field and it was also single phase. Who knows about a magnet? Are you thinking of the single phase light bulbs having the magnet causing the filament to wiggle back and forth for flicker effect? On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 2:44 PM, Arnaud Kodeck arnaud.kod...@lakoco.be wrote: The next question is a 3phases AC supply needed to reproduce the eCat effect? The cold eCat don’t use a 3phases power supply but Rossi could have used magnet inside the cold eCat (Samarium cobalt magnet). -- *From:* Bob Higgins [mailto:rj.bob.higg...@gmail.com] *Sent:* jeudi 16 octobre 2014 22:31 *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:Engineering and materials issues with high temperature hot-cat Lugano demo I think we are describing pretty much the same thing. Only I don't believe there is anything but refractory castable insulation in the large diameter support cylinders at the end of the convection tube. I think the heater coils are axial and the 3-phase drive produces a linear conveyer, which when it gets to the physical end of the tube will fold in on itself coaxially. Moving field is the reason for the 3-phase drive. On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 2:19 PM, Arnaud Kodeck arnaud.kod...@lakoco.be wrote: So why then does Rossi use a 3phases electrical power source? For such kind of power this not needed. 1000W uses less than 5A. So my guess is that Rossi uses the Rotating magnetic field in its Ecat ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotating_magnetic_field ). In this schema, the end caps could be a magnetic mirror ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_mirror ). In this configuration the Ni and Li plasma can’t get out of the confinement and the 3 phases give also a rotation to this field. But I’m not an expert in magnetic confinement and how to achieve it. -- *From:* Bob Higgins [mailto:rj.bob.higg...@gmail.com] *Sent:* jeudi 16 octobre 2014 19:00 *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:Engineering and materials issues with high temperature hot-cat Lugano demo Seems to me that at the temperatures we are talking about (1000C) that bulk magnetic effects are probably out of the question. A plasma of Li would be a conductor and a conductor could be conveyed in a moving magnetic field. I don't think any motion will occur because of any bulk magnetic affects - these are all gone at this temperature. This temperature also makes it difficult to consider magnetically confined condensates as Yeong Kim has described. On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 10:50 AM, Bob Cook frobertc...@hotmail.com wrote: Bob. Amaud, etal-- I had the same thought as Amaud. The wiring arrangement may be deigned to create a magnetic field inside the reactor to align magnetic moments of the various entities and facilitate resonant interactions at varying probabilities to control the rate of reaction.
Re: [Vo]:temperature of the resistor wire.
One thing we can be pretty sure of is that any Ni in this reactor at 1300-1400C will have no nano-features. The nano-scale portions melt at about half the temperature of the bulk material. So what would happen is that if there was Ni with nano-scale features, these features would melt before the bulk and cease to be nano. Long before you get to 1000C, Ni particles (if that is what he used) would sinter themselves together and to the wall of the reactor. I do suspect that nano-features are still required for the reaction. In order for them to exist at these temperatures, Rossi must have substituted a new metal, perhaps zirconium. Previously he said he had experimented with other materials, but they didn't work as well as Ni. Well, in his quest to get the temperature hotter, he may have switched to one of these alternate formulations. This switch caused the hotCat to work at a higher temperature, but probably with a lower COP than his original recipe, colder eCats. Zirconium is a refractory metal which melts (bulk) at 1855C. This is still borderline for maintaining any nano-scale features at the Lugano hotCat temperatures. Rossi may have put the catalyzed zirconium particles in a ceramic washcoat inside the inner ceramic tube as is done for catalytic converters. The washcoat may prevent proton conduction just by itself, and will hold the zirconium particles close to the wall for best lowest thermal resistance. When you open the reactor to take out the ash there won't be any active material that comes out. The heater wire is probably Kanthal Super or the like which is good to over 1500C when encapsulated in a ceramic coating to prevent air from reaching the wire. On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 3:13 PM, Bob Cook frobertc...@hotmail.com wrote: Axil, David etal-- I would have guessed that a vapor of Li metal (I am not sure a plasma would occur) may be a fairly good heat transfer agent, much like He works as a cooling fluid. I would be surprised if there were a 200 degree delta T between the edge of the reactor and its center. Delta T across the alumina vessel may be that 200 degrees, if the energy transfer is by photons generated by the reaction directly, rather than by lattice stimulation of the reacting material with its IR radiation, most of the heat may deposited in the reactor vessel (alumina) or escape through the vessel to the outside surroundings. Maybe Dave's calculation would be able to say what the delta T across the alumina would be with a given heat flux assuming published heat transfer coeff's for alumina. Helium gas is a good heat transfer agent and Li, being of low mass, would be almost as good. My thought about the reactor design is as follows: 1. The reactive material, Ni or some alloy of Ni is free in the vessel along with Li metal. 2. The external energy supply is an inductance heater as well as supplying an oscillating magnetic field--which is controlled to effect resonant conditions. 3. The reactants, Li and Ni nano particles, reach a temperature where the LENR happens when the magnetic field is appropriate and resonances match. 4. The reaction causes the release of photons of determined energy (a function of the magnetic field) with a change in the nuclear structure of the Li and the Ni isotopes reacting. These photons are relatively low energy and not gammas seen in classical nuclear transitions associated with high kinetic energy reactions or transitions of excited radioactive isotopes. 5. The temperature, or the combination of temperature and magnetic field strength, in the Ni nano particles control the rate of the reaction via a negative temperature coeff. much like a water cooled, U fueled, fission reactor. 6. As the free reactants are used up or become glued to the reactor vessel so that free mixing of the Ni and the Li is no longer possible, the LENR stops. 7. The electrical leads are not inconel, but are tungsten or other high temperature electrical conductor. I would not expect that corrosion is an issue with the alumina or the reactants. The wire conductors would have to hold up in a Li, nano Ni hot gas environment, however. Free O would be a problem for corrosion and may change the Ni so as to become non-reactive.
Re: [Vo]:Re: Australian TV does cold fusion
Can't You, Blaze? Hard to consider that offensive - part of every day life:) Not very creative rather an indication of a small vocabulary, but offensive no not at all. If you add perception then we have another story. Best Regards , Lennart Thornros www.StrategicLeadershipSac.com lenn...@thornros.com +1 916 436 1899 202 Granite Park Court, Lincoln CA 95648 “Productivity is never an accident. It is always the result of a commitment to excellence, intelligent planning, and focused effort.” PJM On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 2:39 AM, Blaze Spinnaker blazespinna...@gmail.com wrote: Oh sorry, new zealand tv. On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 2:38 AM, Blaze Spinnaker blazespinna...@gmail.com wrote: Can they say hell on tv in Australia? On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 2:37 AM, Blaze Spinnaker blazespinna...@gmail.com wrote: http://www.3news.co.nz/world/scientist-claims-to-have-mastered-cold-fusion-2014101510 Sadly, terribly terribly ignorant.
Re: [Vo]:temperature of the resistor wire.
Bob, how would we explain the appearance of the ash material that was extracted from the tube? According to the testers the device can operate at higher powers than they experienced which would certainly lead to complete melting of the nickel. What are the chances that some of the other materials in the fuel mix might result in 'slag' that prevents the Nickel crystals from growing very large. It would seem likely for the condensing nickel to form a blockage of the small interior channel into which the fuel was inserted. If that happened, the amount of material that could be analyzed would be quite limited. That might explain the large amount of Ni62 if the sample were constricted to the material near the end cap and not an average. I asked about the amount of material that was collected as ash from which the samples were drawn and do not recall getting an answer. One last comment. If the true temperature of the fuel reached the level that the IR measurements suggested then I would be very surprised to find that a gram was extracted after the test was completed. Local melting and crystallization would very likely plug up the charging hole in several locations. Just my thoughts. Dave -Original Message- From: Bob Higgins rj.bob.higg...@gmail.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Thu, Oct 16, 2014 6:29 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:temperature of the resistor wire. One thing we can be pretty sure of is that any Ni in this reactor at 1300-1400C will have no nano-features. The nano-scale portions melt at about half the temperature of the bulk material. So what would happen is that if there was Ni with nano-scale features, these features would melt before the bulk and cease to be nano. Long before you get to 1000C, Ni particles (if that is what he used) would sinter themselves together and to the wall of the reactor. I do suspect that nano-features are still required for the reaction. In order for them to exist at these temperatures, Rossi must have substituted a new metal, perhaps zirconium. Previously he said he had experimented with other materials, but they didn't work as well as Ni. Well, in his quest to get the temperature hotter, he may have switched to one of these alternate formulations. This switch caused the hotCat to work at a higher temperature, but probably with a lower COP than his original recipe, colder eCats. Zirconium is a refractory metal which melts (bulk) at 1855C. This is still borderline for maintaining any nano-scale features at the Lugano hotCat temperatures. Rossi may have put the catalyzed zirconium particles in a ceramic washcoat inside the inner ceramic tube as is done for catalytic converters. The washcoat may prevent proton conduction just by itself, and will hold the zirconium particles close to the wall for best lowest thermal resistance. When you open the reactor to take out the ash there won't be any active material that comes out. The heater wire is probably Kanthal Super or the like which is good to over 1500C when encapsulated in a ceramic coating to prevent air from reaching the wire. On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 3:13 PM, Bob Cook frobertc...@hotmail.com wrote: Axil, David etal-- I would have guessed that a vapor of Li metal (I am not sure a plasma would occur) may be a fairly good heat transfer agent, much like He works as a cooling fluid. I would be surprised if there were a 200 degree delta T between the edge of the reactor and its center. Delta T across the alumina vessel may be that 200 degrees, if the energy transfer is by photons generated by the reaction directly, rather than by lattice stimulation of the reacting material with its IR radiation, most of the heat may deposited in the reactor vessel (alumina) or escape through the vessel to the outside surroundings. Maybe Dave's calculation would be able to say what the delta T across the alumina would be with a given heat flux assuming published heat transfer coeff's for alumina. Helium gas is a good heat transfer agent and Li, being of low mass, would be almost as good. My thought about the reactor design is as follows: 1. The reactive material, Ni or some alloy of Ni is free in the vessel along with Li metal. 2. The external energy supply is an inductance heater as well as supplying an oscillating magnetic field--which is controlled to effect resonant conditions. 3. The reactants, Li and Ni nano particles, reach a temperature where the LENR happens when the magnetic field is appropriate and resonances match. 4. The reaction causes the release of photons of determined energy (a function of the magnetic field) with a change in the nuclear structure of the Li and the Ni isotopes reacting. These photons are relatively low energy and not gammas seen in classical nuclear transitions associated with high kinetic energy reactions or transitions of excited radioactive isotopes. 5. The
[Vo]:Is the beginning of the end of the ECat saga?
Doesn't look good for Rossi, but I am not sure I understand Pomp's point. Is Pomp saying Rossi is rewriting history to make it look Ni62 was present in the ash of his earlier EC at? http://stephanpomp.blogspot.se/2014/10/mr-rossi-i-admire-you.html Harry
RE: [Vo]:Draft Ragone Plot FINAL -- OK TO USE
My plot's on Mark Gibbs of course (because he commisioned last years). I like this one in Japanese --- by Toshiro Sengaku http://amateur-lenr.blogspot.jp/2014/10/e-cat_13.html
RE: [Vo]:Is the beginning of the end of the ECat saga?
From: H Veeder Doesn't look good for Rossi, but I am not sure I understand Pomp's point. Is Pomp saying Rossi is rewriting history to make it look like Ni62 was present in the ash of his earlier EC at? http://stephanpomp.blogspot.se/2014/10/mr-rossi-i-admire-you.html Harry No, he is crystal clear that he thinks Rossi is cheating : “All this leaves only one conclusion: you were playing tricks then (trying to give the impression that copper was produced) and you are playing tricks now (trying to have people believe all nickel somehow converted into Ni-62)”
Re: [Vo]:temperature of the resistor wire.
So Rossi's quasi-scam is to jerk around a bunch of scientists with phony reactors so as to throw off his competitors? harry On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 4:11 PM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: From: Randy Wuller So for example, let’s say Rossi knew that by setting up the constraints associated with testing the ash, (1% from stuff that fell out), everyone would be misled as to what was actually happening. That’s more appropriately described as protecting your IP. Randy - I never said anything about a crime. Why are you? None of the TV scams I mentioned were prosecuted as a crime, as far as I know. If dishonesty was a crime, we would have to lock up half of the politicians in DC. Make that: more than half. And also - aren’t you assuming that he is not misleading his funder, as well? Would your opinion change if you found out that his royalty agreement was a long-term deal structured around performance milestones? I have no idea what his deal consists of, but I doubt if he can walk away with a large sum without some kind of verification that the device actually works. It is normal business practice with many inventions that a large portion of the total royalty payment will in escrow pending milestones and/or will be delayed until cash-flow starts, meaning that a commercial product emerges. Jones
Re: [Vo]:Is the beginning of the end of the ECat saga?
On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 9:20 PM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: *From:* H Veeder Doesn't look good for Rossi, but I am not sure I understand Pomp's point. Is Pomp saying Rossi is rewriting history to make it look like Ni62 was present in the ash of his earlier EC at? http://stephanpomp.blogspot.se/2014/10/mr-rossi-i-admire-you.html Harry No, he is crystal clear that he thinks Rossi is cheating : “All this leaves only one conclusion: you were playing tricks then (trying to give the impression that copper was produced) and you are playing tricks now (trying to have people believe all nickel somehow converted into Ni-62)” We all know now the copper was not the result of transmutation because it came from contamination. This was a mistake which he didn't want to acknowledge because *he* felt embarrassed by it. Rossi is someone who experiences a lot of shame when he makes even an honest mistake, and this causes him to either deny the mistake or react angrily. I am not sure why he is so sensitive when it comes to making honest mistakes. Perhaps the mafia exploited one of his honest mistakes and this led his erroneous conviction. The important thing to remember is that making mistakes is not bad thing in science. Harry
[Vo]:OT: The Courage to Create
The Courage to Create by Rollo May https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=auOW5tNFjZg Psychoanalyst Rollo May~We Lack Mystery! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vw0SCmoj9tc Harry
[Vo]:OT: Brené Brown - Embracing Vulnerability
Brené Brown - Embracing Vulnerability https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AO6n9HmG0qM Harry
Re: [Vo]:OT: The Courage to Create
sorry the link to _ Psychoanalyst Rollo May~We Lack Mystery!_ should be https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zi9NAzMJbds Harry On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 10:11 PM, H Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com wrote: The Courage to Create by Rollo May https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=auOW5tNFjZg Psychoanalyst Rollo May~We Lack Mystery! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vw0SCmoj9tc Harry
Re: [Vo]:temperature of the resistor wire.
Dave-- I thought it was reported that Rossi cut the end of the reactor with a diamond saw. There would have been no plugged charging hole to contend with. I do not think the temperature in the reactor was high enough to melt the Ni or Ni alloy nano particles. As I suggested the energy of reaction was released as radiant energy and did not raise the temperature of the reactants significantly. The Li metal vapor would have acted to remove heat to the wall of the reactor, if the nano particles of Ni (alloy) got to hot. It is my assumption that the temperature of the vapor (maybe plasma) was fairly uniform within the reactor vessel (alumina containment). It may be that the isotopes of Ni below 62 were indeed depleted and not seen in the ash. Bob Cook - Original Message - From: David Roberson To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2014 5:28 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:temperature of the resistor wire. Bob, how would we explain the appearance of the ash material that was extracted from the tube? According to the testers the device can operate at higher powers than they experienced which would certainly lead to complete melting of the nickel. What are the chances that some of the other materials in the fuel mix might result in 'slag' that prevents the Nickel crystals from growing very large. It would seem likely for the condensing nickel to form a blockage of the small interior channel into which the fuel was inserted. If that happened, the amount of material that could be analyzed would be quite limited. That might explain the large amount of Ni62 if the sample were constricted to the material near the end cap and not an average. I asked about the amount of material that was collected as ash from which the samples were drawn and do not recall getting an answer. One last comment. If the true temperature of the fuel reached the level that the IR measurements suggested then I would be very surprised to find that a gram was extracted after the test was completed. Local melting and crystallization would very likely plug up the charging hole in several locations. Just my thoughts. Dave -Original Message- From: Bob Higgins rj.bob.higg...@gmail.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Thu, Oct 16, 2014 6:29 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:temperature of the resistor wire. One thing we can be pretty sure of is that any Ni in this reactor at 1300-1400C will have no nano-features. The nano-scale portions melt at about half the temperature of the bulk material. So what would happen is that if there was Ni with nano-scale features, these features would melt before the bulk and cease to be nano. Long before you get to 1000C, Ni particles (if that is what he used) would sinter themselves together and to the wall of the reactor. I do suspect that nano-features are still required for the reaction. In order for them to exist at these temperatures, Rossi must have substituted a new metal, perhaps zirconium. Previously he said he had experimented with other materials, but they didn't work as well as Ni. Well, in his quest to get the temperature hotter, he may have switched to one of these alternate formulations. This switch caused the hotCat to work at a higher temperature, but probably with a lower COP than his original recipe, colder eCats. Zirconium is a refractory metal which melts (bulk) at 1855C. This is still borderline for maintaining any nano-scale features at the Lugano hotCat temperatures. Rossi may have put the catalyzed zirconium particles in a ceramic washcoat inside the inner ceramic tube as is done for catalytic converters. The washcoat may prevent proton conduction just by itself, and will hold the zirconium particles close to the wall for best lowest thermal resistance. When you open the reactor to take out the ash there won't be any active material that comes out. The heater wire is probably Kanthal Super or the like which is good to over 1500C when encapsulated in a ceramic coating to prevent air from reaching the wire. On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 3:13 PM, Bob Cook frobertc...@hotmail.com wrote: Axil, David etal-- I would have guessed that a vapor of Li metal (I am not sure a plasma would occur) may be a fairly good heat transfer agent, much like He works as a cooling fluid. I would be surprised if there were a 200 degree delta T between the edge of the reactor and its center. Delta T across the alumina vessel may be that 200 degrees, if the energy transfer is by photons generated by the reaction directly, rather than by lattice stimulation of the reacting material with its IR radiation, most of the heat may deposited in the reactor vessel (alumina) or escape through the vessel to the outside surroundings. Maybe Dave's calculation would be able to say what the delta T across the alumina would be with a given heat flux assuming
Re: [Vo]:OT: The Phone Cops
On Tue, Oct 14, 2014 at 2:58 PM, Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com wrote: To see how truly powerful TPC is, you have to watch this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_President's_Analyst ThePhoneCompany https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vbbpjd52atwfeature=youtu.bet=5m59s Maybe this inspired the scene from WKRP Harry
Re: [Vo]:Is the beginning of the end of the ECat saga?
The source of the energy is irrelevant to the existence of excess energy. The ECAT shouldn't fall based on incorrect and ultimately irrelevant beliefs of why it functions. On Fri, Oct 17, 2014 at 2:43 PM, H Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 9:20 PM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: *From:* H Veeder Doesn't look good for Rossi, but I am not sure I understand Pomp's point. Is Pomp saying Rossi is rewriting history to make it look like Ni62 was present in the ash of his earlier EC at? http://stephanpomp.blogspot.se/2014/10/mr-rossi-i-admire-you.html Harry No, he is crystal clear that he thinks Rossi is cheating : “All this leaves only one conclusion: you were playing tricks then (trying to give the impression that copper was produced) and you are playing tricks now (trying to have people believe all nickel somehow converted into Ni-62)” We all know now the copper was not the result of transmutation because it came from contamination. This was a mistake which he didn't want to acknowledge because *he* felt embarrassed by it. Rossi is someone who experiences a lot of shame when he makes even an honest mistake, and this causes him to either deny the mistake or react angrily. I am not sure why he is so sensitive when it comes to making honest mistakes. Perhaps the mafia exploited one of his honest mistakes and this led his erroneous conviction. The important thing to remember is that making mistakes is not bad thing in science. Harry
Re: [Vo]:Is the beginning of the end of the ECat saga?
This is sort of a microcosm of 89' all of again in terms of skepticism. The excess heat is almost undoubtedly real, but let's make it about the integrity of nuclear product measurements. Pomp is doing the same red herring shit that Hueizenga, Close, Parker, etc. engaged in. On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 11:11 PM, John Berry berry.joh...@gmail.com wrote: The source of the energy is irrelevant to the existence of excess energy. The ECAT shouldn't fall based on incorrect and ultimately irrelevant beliefs of why it functions. On Fri, Oct 17, 2014 at 2:43 PM, H Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 9:20 PM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: *From:* H Veeder Doesn't look good for Rossi, but I am not sure I understand Pomp's point. Is Pomp saying Rossi is rewriting history to make it look like Ni62 was present in the ash of his earlier EC at? http://stephanpomp.blogspot.se/2014/10/mr-rossi-i-admire-you.html Harry No, he is crystal clear that he thinks Rossi is cheating : “All this leaves only one conclusion: you were playing tricks then (trying to give the impression that copper was produced) and you are playing tricks now (trying to have people believe all nickel somehow converted into Ni-62)” We all know now the copper was not the result of transmutation because it came from contamination. This was a mistake which he didn't want to acknowledge because *he* felt embarrassed by it. Rossi is someone who experiences a lot of shame when he makes even an honest mistake, and this causes him to either deny the mistake or react angrily. I am not sure why he is so sensitive when it comes to making honest mistakes. Perhaps the mafia exploited one of his honest mistakes and this led his erroneous conviction. The important thing to remember is that making mistakes is not bad thing in science. Harry
Re: [Vo]:Is the beginning of the end of the ECat saga?
Why would anyone rational care what what the pseudo-skeptics have to say anymore? They used to be relevant but they aren't anymore. Too much is going on now for them to be able to impede progress much. On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 10:22 PM, Foks0904 . foks0...@gmail.com wrote: This is sort of a microcosm of 89' all of again in terms of skepticism. The excess heat is almost undoubtedly real, but let's make it about the integrity of nuclear product measurements. Pomp is doing the same red herring shit that Hueizenga, Close, Parker, etc. engaged in. On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 11:11 PM, John Berry berry.joh...@gmail.com wrote: The source of the energy is irrelevant to the existence of excess energy. The ECAT shouldn't fall based on incorrect and ultimately irrelevant beliefs of why it functions. On Fri, Oct 17, 2014 at 2:43 PM, H Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 9:20 PM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: *From:* H Veeder Doesn't look good for Rossi, but I am not sure I understand Pomp's point. Is Pomp saying Rossi is rewriting history to make it look like Ni62 was present in the ash of his earlier EC at? http://stephanpomp.blogspot.se/2014/10/mr-rossi-i-admire-you.html Harry No, he is crystal clear that he thinks Rossi is cheating : “All this leaves only one conclusion: you were playing tricks then (trying to give the impression that copper was produced) and you are playing tricks now (trying to have people believe all nickel somehow converted into Ni-62)” We all know now the copper was not the result of transmutation because it came from contamination. This was a mistake which he didn't want to acknowledge because *he* felt embarrassed by it. Rossi is someone who experiences a lot of shame when he makes even an honest mistake, and this causes him to either deny the mistake or react angrily. I am not sure why he is so sensitive when it comes to making honest mistakes. Perhaps the mafia exploited one of his honest mistakes and this led his erroneous conviction. The important thing to remember is that making mistakes is not bad thing in science. Harry
Re: [Vo]:Greenhouse HotCat
Dave, for some reason when you start a new thread your message appears in my spam folder. I am not sure what you are asking, but the Earth supposedly generates some heat too. I am not sure how much of this heat contributes to the global temperature. Harry On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 1:00 PM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote: A thought occurred to me this morning concerning the temperature measurements and output power calculations from the latest HotCat testing. What if the same general type of effect is working in the CAT test that is revealed by the Earth and the greenhouse gas process? We assume that the Earth is pretty much in equilibrium where the power arriving from the sun is matching the power being radiated from our planet. The reason that we are not frozen at this time is because the radiation spectrum is modified by the greenhouse gases in the atmosphere which make our temperature a lot warmer than would be expected for a black body in open space. Perhaps something can be learned from this comparison and that is why I open it to discussion amount this group of knowlegible and diverse folks. One might initially ask if the calibration technique used during the testing of the HotCat would correct for the potential problems. Why would a calibration of the heat emitted within the IR region not hold to a reasonable degree at higher temperatures? Could the change in the shape of the spectrum result in a large error? Have mercy on the messenger. Dave
Re: [Vo]:Greenhouse HotCat
Dave, for some reason when you start a new thread your message appears in my spam folder. I am not sure what you are asking, but the Earth supposedly generates some heat too. I am not sure how much of this heat contributes to the global temperature. Harry On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 1:00 PM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote: A thought occurred to me this morning concerning the temperature measurements and output power calculations from the latest HotCat testing. What if the same general type of effect is working in the CAT test that is revealed by the Earth and the greenhouse gas process? We assume that the Earth is pretty much in equilibrium where the power arriving from the sun is matching the power being radiated from our planet. The reason that we are not frozen at this time is because the radiation spectrum is modified by the greenhouse gases in the atmosphere which make our temperature a lot warmer than would be expected for a black body in open space. Perhaps something can be learned from this comparison and that is why I open it to discussion amount this group of knowlegible and diverse folks. One might initially ask if the calibration technique used during the testing of the HotCat would correct for the potential problems. Why would a calibration of the heat emitted within the IR region not hold to a reasonable degree at higher temperatures? Could the change in the shape of the spectrum result in a large error? Have mercy on the messenger. Dave
Re: [Vo]:Greenhouse HotCat
Thanks for the heads up Harry. I wonder if others on the list are seeing my new topics being sent to spam. The question that I am asking is whether or not there are clues to the behavior of the temperature and power output correlation from the latest HotCat tests revealed by greenhouse gas behavior of the Earth. The Earth is warmer than it should be according to normal black body radiation effects. We attribute the reason as being due to incoming visible light energy being converted into heat at the surface and atmosphere which is partially captured. Less radiation power is emitted into space than the temperature suggests for a grey body. Does the variation in the shape of the spectrum as the temperature increases effectively destroy the calibration established by the dummy HotCat run? Is there a simple way to take the error into account? Dave -Original Message- From: H Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Thu, Oct 16, 2014 11:58 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:Greenhouse HotCat Dave, for some reason when you start a new thread your message appears in my spam folder. I am not sure what you are asking, but the Earth supposedly generates some heat too. I am not sure how much of this heat contributes to the global temperature. Harry On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 1:00 PM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote: A thought occurred to me this morning concerning the temperature measurements and output power calculations from the latest HotCat testing. What if the same general type of effect is working in the CAT test that is revealed by the Earth and the greenhouse gas process? We assume that the Earth is pretty much in equilibrium where the power arriving from the sun is matching the power being radiated from our planet. The reason that we are not frozen at this time is because the radiation spectrum is modified by the greenhouse gases in the atmosphere which make our temperature a lot warmer than would be expected for a black body in open space. Perhaps something can be learned from this comparison and that is why I open it to discussion amount this group of knowlegible and diverse folks. One might initially ask if the calibration technique used during the testing of the HotCat would correct for the potential problems. Why would a calibration of the heat emitted within the IR region not hold to a reasonable degree at higher temperatures? Could the change in the shape of the spectrum result in a large error? Have mercy on the messenger. Dave
Re: [Vo]:Greenhouse HotCat
On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 8:58 PM, H Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com wrote: I am not sure what you are asking, but the Earth supposedly generates some heat too. The earth does kind of have the composition of a large, spherical E-Cat. And there is a magnetic field that exists due in part to the rotation of the molten core. I would not be surprised if there is something LENR-driven in the internal heat that is observed. The explanation I have heard for the heat, that it goes back to uranium, seems a little wishful. Eric
Re: [Vo]:temperature of the resistor wire.
Bob, If we assume that a high temperature structure is surrounding and immediately adjacent to the fuel chamber the materials within that chamber should be as a minimum the structure temperature unless heat is flowing into the fuel chamber. I suppose that the fuel could be cooler provided you believe some form of heat pump is absorbing the heat flowing into the fuel and sending it out in the form of high energy radiation. I do not expect for that to happen so my visualization is that the core is hotter than anywhere else within the device with the possible exception of the resistive wires directly. The core material can be cooler than the heating wires provided a path for heat to bypass the literal wires exists. That path should be available in most cases. Dave -Original Message- From: Bob Cook frobertc...@hotmail.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Thu, Oct 16, 2014 10:58 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:temperature of the resistor wire. Dave-- I thought it was reported that Rossi cut the end of the reactor with a diamond saw. There would have been no plugged charging hole to contend with. I do not think the temperature in the reactor was high enough to melt the Ni or Ni alloy nano particles. As I suggested the energy of reaction was released as radiant energy and did not raise the temperature of the reactants significantly. The Li metal vapor would have acted to remove heat to the wall of the reactor, if the nano particles of Ni (alloy) got to hot. It is my assumption that the temperature of the vapor (maybe plasma) was fairly uniform within the reactor vessel (alumina containment). It may be that the isotopes of Ni below 62 were indeed depleted and not seen in the ash. Bob Cook - Original Message - From: David Roberson To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2014 5:28 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:temperature of the resistor wire. Bob, how would we explain the appearance of the ash material that was extracted from the tube? According to the testers the device can operate at higher powers than they experienced which would certainly lead to complete melting of the nickel. What are the chances that some of the other materials in the fuel mix might result in 'slag' that prevents the Nickel crystals from growing very large. It would seem likely for the condensing nickel to form a blockage of the small interior channel into which the fuel was inserted.If that happened, the amount of material that could be analyzed would be quite limited. That might explain the large amount of Ni62 if the sample were constricted to the material near the end cap and not an average. I asked about the amount of material that was collected as ash from which the samples were drawn and do not recall getting an answer. One last comment. If the true temperature of the fuel reached the level that the IR measurements suggested then I would be very surprised to find that a gram was extracted after the test was completed. Local melting and crystallization would very likely plug up the charging hole in several locations. Just my thoughts. Dave -Original Message- From: Bob Higgins rj.bob.higg...@gmail.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Thu, Oct 16, 2014 6:29 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:temperature of the resistor wire. One thing we can be pretty sure of is that any Ni in this reactor at 1300-1400C will have no nano-features. The nano-scale portions melt at about half the temperature of the bulk material. So what would happen is that if there was Ni with nano-scale features, these features would melt before the bulk and cease to be nano. Long before you get to 1000C, Ni particles (if that is what he used) would sinter themselves together and to the wall of the reactor. I do suspect that nano-features are still required for the reaction. In order for them to exist at these temperatures, Rossi must have substituted a new metal, perhaps zirconium. Previously he said he had experimented with other materials, but they didn't work as well as Ni. Well, in his quest to get the temperature hotter, he may have switched to one of these alternate formulations. This switch caused the hotCat to work at a higher temperature, but probably with a lower COP than his original recipe, colder eCats. Zirconium is a refractory metal which melts (bulk) at 1855C. This is still borderline for maintaining any nano-scale features at the Lugano hotCat temperatures. Rossi may have put the catalyzed zirconium particles in a ceramic washcoat inside the inner ceramic tube as is done for catalytic converters. The washcoat may prevent proton conduction just by itself, and will hold the zirconium particles close to the wall for best lowest thermal resistance. When you open the reactor to take out the
