Re: [Vo]:Perhaps shooting myself in the foot

[Lennart Thornros]

Hello Steven,
Yeah to some degree it hurts to know that I cannot learn this very
illogical language after I have been in school for 10 years and then spent
as long time as you are old practising (incl of school). However, my
excuses are that the language is illogical. I fight the issue daily a
teenage daughter all American and a British wife. Do you think I hear about
my grammar. Youshould hear what they say about my accent:)
Good to have different opinions.

Best Regards ,
Lennart Thornros

www.StrategicLeadershipSac.com
lenn...@thornros.com
+1 916 436 1899
202 Granite Park Court, Lincoln CA 95648

“Productivity is never an accident. It is always the result of a commitment
to excellence, intelligent planning, and focused effort.” PJM

On Fri, Sep 18, 2015 at 5:42 PM, Orionworks - Steven Vincent Johnson <
orionwo...@charter.net> wrote:

> From Lennart
>
>
>
> > I will take risk.
>
>
>
> > This video about how strong the word is. (The critic (well founded btw)
>
> > about my grammar should probably not make me bring this but I think it
>
> > is so good that I take chance. Have a cigar it is Friday.
>
> > Words mean a lot.
>
>
>
> ...
>
>
>
> Good link, Lennart. Glad you provided it. Enjoyable and informative. I
> liked the part where the speaker, at the end of his toast, crushed the
> cigarette within his fist.
>
>
>
>  deity on Friday>
>
>
>
> If some of the above was in reference to my prior criticism of your use of
> the English language, let me add that my American ability to speak Spanish
> is abysmal, despite the fact that I had plenty of opportunity to learn it.
> In child hood I lived in El Salvador, Central America, for three years. All
> during that time I went to a bi-lingual school. The simple truth of the
> matter was that I was lazy. I had plenty of other interests as well. At
> that awkward early teen-age time in my life I was more interested in
> studying the social order of ant colonies while simultaneously becoming
> infatuated with girls who rarely noticed my existence on this planet. There
> was a lot on my dinner plate to sort through. As far as I was concerned I
> had no time left over to apply myself (as if my future welfare was as
> stake) on learning Spanish. In retrospect if I had been truly motivated, at
> least to a point where might have been able to carry on an awkward but
> reasonably cognizant conversation in Spanish, it would have served me well.
> This is without a doubt.
>
>
>
> Yes, words mean a lot. So, keep practicing, Lennart. I’m not sure how
> compulsory it really is but it’s my understanding that many European
> countries both routinely and simultaneously teach English alongside their
> native tongue. Why? Because many countries know their country’s future
> welfare may depend on having enough of their own citizens fluent in
> communicating in English, simply for business purposes. In the United
> States, we do teach other foreign languages in school as electives. That
> said, I suspect it’s not anywhere near as compulsory as it probably is in
> other countries. Lately, there have been grumblings from conservative
> right-wing factions that suggest our country has already gone too far in
> allowing Spanish to spread through the United States. Hopefully, their
> xenophobia will be ignored.
>
>
>
> I’ve already learned enough from your prior posts to know that I
> occasionally agree and disagree on certain points you have expressed. That
> means the art of communication your Point of View has tended to have been
> more successful than unsuccessful. What more can one ask from “words”.
>
>
>
> PS: As for me, while I might have the “girl” issue reasonably sorted out
> (Yes, I’m a nerd, take it or leave it.), I don’t know whether I’ll ever get
> my multiyear Kepler Research project sorted out to my satisfaction before
> kicking the bucket. Yes, Sancho, I know. Just boil the damned egg, will you!
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> Steven Vincent Johnson
>
> OrionWorks.com
>
> zazzle.com/orionworks
>

Re: [Vo]:The Ahmed Mohamed case and distrust of experts

[leaking pen]

They never claimed they thought it was a bomb. They KNEW it wasnt a bomb.
They claim to have thought that he was trying to pass it off as a bomb to
scare people. (which is even more assinine)

On Wed, Sep 16, 2015 at 5:57 PM, Jed Rothwell  wrote:

> The Ahmed Mohamed case has swept the Internet. I hope the kid gets a
> normal life back. Anyway, I would like to point out something about this
> that clicked in my mind regarding cold fusion.
>
> This is a technical high school, specializing in engineering. The first
> teacher he showed it to saw it was a clock. I expect there are dozens of
> other teachers there who would instantly recognize it is a clock. So, when
> suspicion arose, and the kid and his clock were sent the principal's
> office, the principal should have called in one of the engineering teachers
> and asked "what is this?" The misunderstanding would have been cleared up
> instantly. Instead, the principal called the police. As you see from the
> news accounts the police knew nothing about electronics or bombs.
>
> Decades ago, when a technical questions arose, technical experts were
> called in, and the public accepted their judgement. There were laws that
> all children have to be inoculated against infectious disease. No one
> questioned these laws. An "anti-vaxer" movement in the 1950s, when the
> polio vaccine had just been developed, would have been unthinkable. All
> adults back then understood how dangerous polio is.
>
> Perhaps respect for authority and for expertise was too high back then.
> There were cases of that. But I think the pendulum has swung too far the
> other way. The tragedy of cold fusion is not that experts were wrong, but
> rather that experts were ignored. Decision makers ignored the scientific
> literature and did not listen to experts who had actually performed
> experiments. They turned instead to science journalists, then to ordinary
> journalists, to scientists who had no knowledge of the subject and who had
> read nothing, and finally, to anonymous people at Wikipedia who name
> themselves after comic book characters.
>
> - - - - - - - - - - -
>
> The story includes one of the most stupid quotes from a police department
> spokesperson I have ever read:
>
> “We have no information that he claimed it was a bomb,” McLellan said. “He
> kept maintaining it was a clock, but there was no broader explanation.”
>
>
> Asked what broader explanation the boy could have given, the spokesman
> explained:
>
>
> “It could reasonably be mistaken as a device if left in a bathroom or
> under a car. The concern was, what was this thing built for? Do we take him
> into custody?”
>
>
> Broad?!? Call it broad or narrow, *the gadget was a clock*, and that was
> the one and only explanation, for crying out loud.
>
> - Jed
>
>

Re: [Vo]:The Ahmed Mohamed case and distrust of experts

[Jed Rothwell]

James Bowery  wrote:

> The linked analysis posits that Ahmed's clock started out as another
> clock, rather than a box of parts . . .
>
Yes, that is what Ahmed said. He put together clock electronics with a new
LCD driver and power supply. It took him 20 minutes.


, and Ahmed can be said to have repackaged rather than "invented" a wholly
> new clock, but acknowledges that "none of us were there and knows what
> happened."
>
Actually, anyone who is paying attention to what the kid said knows what
happened. He said exactly what he did and how he did it. He already talks
like an engineer. Even talking about the interrogation, he uses more
technically accurate words and better grammar and diction than the idiot
policemen who arrested him.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:The Ahmed Mohamed case and distrust of experts

[Jed Rothwell]

leaking pen  wrote:


> They never claimed they thought it was a bomb. They KNEW it wasnt a bomb.
> They claim to have thought that he was trying to pass it off as a bomb to
> scare people. (which is even more assinine)
>

I believe that was their fall back position. At first they said it was a
bomb. They demanded he confess to that. Then they said it was a fake bomb
and they demanded he confess to that, as well.

Making a fake bomb is a crime in Texas.

This does not look remotely like a bomb to me, but the policeman said it
looks like a "movie bomb."

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:The Ahmed Mohamed case and distrust of experts

[Jed Rothwell]

James Bowery  wrote:

The real reason the police were called in:
>

[ref. fake bomb statute]

No, that is not the reason. The police were called in because the teacher
and principal thought it was a real bomb. That is what they accused the kid
of having.

You need to read the published accounts carefully.

Later they said it was because of that statute.

That statute would not apply in any case, because he never said or
insinuated it was a bomb, and anyone with knowledge of electronics who
glances at it can see it is not a bomb.

- Jed

[Vo]:The megafarad capacitor

[Jones Beene]

There is an eccentric inventor on YouTube named Robert Murray-Smith, who has
been working towards the megafarad capacitor using graphene oxide, and has
recently made progress (without much funding).

Certainly, the best use of coal is not to burn it - but to turn it into
graphene (and CNT, Bucky-balls, filaments, etc.). Mass-produced graphene
oxide megacapacitors should be cheaper than any other imaginable energy
storage medium like lithium batteries, since the main raw material is coal. 

Murray-Smith figures that the average house, and the power needs of two
adults, could be handled by 2-3 megafarad caps, about the size of a single
regular car battery. They could be recharged off-peak in a few minutes, or
slowly with solar. The current Tesla automobile would need about 10 of them
and could be charged in less time than the home, since the limitation on the
home is the puny grid connection (assuming a charging station has a high
power charger)

I agree with Robin that the ADGEX and possibly the STEORN are using an
advanced capacitor system, which could be made from graphene oxide or not.
Their capacitors are probably in the kilo-farad range but megafarad will
happen soon. There is probably an antenna in these units for capturing Wi-Fi
as well. RCA developed this tech 5 years ago.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wOJEIMf12I=1

It is very possible that an additional self-charging anomaly has been
discovered as one get capacitance levels up to the kilofarad range. This
does not necessarily violate CoE, so long as the device cools as it
recharges. This magneto-cooling phenomenon was seen with the Arthur Manelas
device.

Jones

RE: [Vo]:Perhaps shooting myself in the foot

[Orionworks - Steven Vincent Johnson]

>From Lennart

 

> I will take risk.

 

> This video about how strong the word is. (The critic (well founded btw)

> about my grammar should probably not make me bring this but I think it

> is so good that I take chance. Have a cigar it is Friday.

> Words mean a lot.

 

...

 

Good link, Lennart. Glad you provided it. Enjoyable and informative. I liked 
the part where the speaker, at the end of his toast, crushed the cigarette 
within his fist.

 



 

If some of the above was in reference to my prior criticism of your use of the 
English language, let me add that my American ability to speak Spanish is 
abysmal, despite the fact that I had plenty of opportunity to learn it. In 
child hood I lived in El Salvador, Central America, for three years. All during 
that time I went to a bi-lingual school. The simple truth of the matter was 
that I was lazy. I had plenty of other interests as well. At that awkward early 
teen-age time in my life I was more interested in studying the social order of 
ant colonies while simultaneously becoming infatuated with girls who rarely 
noticed my existence on this planet. There was a lot on my dinner plate to sort 
through. As far as I was concerned I had no time left over to apply myself (as 
if my future welfare was as stake) on learning Spanish. In retrospect if I had 
been truly motivated, at least to a point where might have been able to carry 
on an awkward but reasonably cognizant conversation in Spanish, it would have 
served me well. This is without a doubt.

 

Yes, words mean a lot. So, keep practicing, Lennart. I’m not sure how 
compulsory it really is but it’s my understanding that many European countries 
both routinely and simultaneously teach English alongside their native tongue. 
Why? Because many countries know their country’s future welfare may depend on 
having enough of their own citizens fluent in communicating in English, simply 
for business purposes. In the United States, we do teach other foreign 
languages in school as electives. That said, I suspect it’s not anywhere near 
as compulsory as it probably is in other countries. Lately, there have been 
grumblings from conservative right-wing factions that suggest our country has 
already gone too far in allowing Spanish to spread through the United States. 
Hopefully, their xenophobia will be ignored.

 

I’ve already learned enough from your prior posts to know that I occasionally 
agree and disagree on certain points you have expressed. That means the art of 
communication your Point of View has tended to have been more successful than 
unsuccessful. What more can one ask from “words”.

 

PS: As for me, while I might have the “girl” issue reasonably sorted out (Yes, 
I’m a nerd, take it or leave it.), I don’t know whether I’ll ever get my 
multiyear Kepler Research project sorted out to my satisfaction before kicking 
the bucket. Yes, Sancho, I know. Just boil the damned egg, will you!

 



 

 

Regards,

 

Steven Vincent Johnson

OrionWorks.com

zazzle.com/orionworks

Re: [Vo]:The Ahmed Mohamed case and distrust of experts

[James Bowery]

Ahmed Mohamed, His Clock, and the Curious Turn of Events

164

Posted by timothy  on Friday September 18,
2015 @03:48PM from the but-don't-make-a-pop-tart-gun dept.
New submitter poity  writes:After the news
first broke of the 9th grader getting cuffed

for
scaring school officials with what turned out to be a digital clock, Ahmed
Mohamed has experienced a surge of popular support — hailed as a genius and
a hero
,
with college scholarships, internship offers, and even an invitation to the
White House

by
President Obama himself. Now, amid rumors of possible racial discrimination
lawsuits against the school and local police, some people have begun to
more deeply scrutinize the details of the case, especially on the tech side
with regard to the homemade clock in question
.
Recently, a writer at the creative site Artvoice posted a remarkable
analysis of Ahmed's clock project
,
which raises new questions about the case and the manner in which people
and the media alike have reacted.The linked analysis posits that Ahmed's
clock started out as another clock, rather than a box of parts, and Ahmed
can be said to have repackaged rather than "invented" a wholly new clock,
but acknowledges that "none of us were there and knows what happened."
Twitter Facebook LinkedIn
Google+



On Fri, Sep 18, 2015 at 2:36 PM, Lawrence de Bivort 
wrote:

> Good thing Sailer isn't hallucinating or mind-reading here!
>
> Hmm. His dad ran for Sudanese president. How suspicious!
>
> Hmmm. Kid builds a clock and this means he is…demonizing the West!
>
>
> On Sep 18, 2015, at 12:31 PM, James Bowery  wrote:
>
> Keep providing payoffs in terms of moral authority and social status for
> this kind of behavior and you are going to keep getting more of it:
>
>
> Steve Sailer: I’m sure you’ve heard about the Sudanese Muslim immigrant
> kid in Texas who was arrested for bringing his home made electronic clock
> to school where Islamophobes worried that it was a time bomb beeping in his
> backpack. A reader points out that the kid’s dad is a publicity hound who
> routinely returns to Sudan to run for President and engages in other PR
> stunts
>
> S Sailer: If Ahmed were so smart, he’d know the difference between
> creating a circuit and stripping the guts from a manufactured clock. His
> dad helped him “make” this, and dad helped to make this “project” look as
> questionable as possible, within the realm of plausible deniability.
> Whatever agenda he’s advancing, it just further demonizes western society,
> and reminds us all to be guilty for how racist we all are.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Sep 18, 2015 at 1:20 PM, Jed Rothwell 
> wrote:
>
>> Eric Walker  wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Probably not.  But just in case, I will not bring something that looks
>>> vaguely like a bomb to my place of work.
>>>
>>
>> What if your place of work is a high school dedicated to teaching
>> engineering?!? I cannot think of a more appropriate thing to bring than an
>> electronics project. No one on the staff there would have thought this is a
>> bomb. It will not look "vaguely like a bomb" to them.
>>
>> This is like saying you should not bring a hammer to a construction site.
>>
>> - Jed
>>
>>
>
>

Re: [Vo]:The Ahmed Mohamed case and distrust of experts

[Alain Sepeda]

this devices does not look like a bomb.
too complex.
To be honest it does not even look like a clock, too complex.
It look like a single board computer of 1980 generation with LCD display.
This is probably what it is with modern controllers. The kid need some
years in electronic engineering school and better tools, before he can make
something small enough to look like a clock. He is at the level I was at
his age.

if someone with notion of electronics says that it looks like a bomb, I
remove even his bachelor of science immediately.

bomb is either much simpler, or you see specific devices to protect from
disarming, like captors, fake wires.
moreover you need a load.

moreover someone who make a fakebomb, and say it is not a bomb have no
intent deceive.

it is simple incompetence, nothing else to say.

this is in fact racist mixed with stupidity , incompetence, incapacity to
recognise it's own stupidity and mistakes, and as we see often, initial
stupidity is transmited in the group , kept by general incapaciity to
recognised own errors, and supported by general racism.

this is great, and memorable story.
digging a little you will probably see it is an example of groupthink.

probably there was many people able to see it was a clock, but some mind
guards probably was too dominant and frightened the weaker.


2015-09-17 23:24 GMT+02:00 Blaze Spinnaker :

> Any reasonably cautious person would say this thing looks like a hoax
> bomb:
> http://www.wired.com/2015/09/heres-bomb-clock-got-ahmed-mohamed-arrested/
>
>
> Making something that LOOKS LIKE A BOMB is a felony.  It's akin to
> shouting fire in a crowded theatre.  Again, I think the teachers over
> reacted a little, but I think it fell within a not so completely unexpected
> range of reasonable reactions.
>
> The only thing they screwed up on was letting the kid get photographed.
> He's 14.  There's no reason this needed to go on the internet and
> permanently harm him.
>
> On Thu, Sep 17, 2015 at 9:31 AM, Blaze Spinnaker  > wrote:
>
>> I will say one thing - the one thing I think everyone completely missed
>> was that there should not have been a picture of the kid in handcuffs and
>> it should have been handled much more discretely.The over reaction can
>> be excused, but it should have been done very very quietly.   That can not
>> be pardoned and I wish everyone would focus more on that so future
>> educators wouldn't make the same mistake.
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 17, 2015 at 9:28 AM, Blaze Spinnaker <
>> blazespinna...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> lol.   I love the outrage!   Such drama.   However simple reality is no
>>> one, and I mean no one, knows the facts on the ground.   Was it an
>>> overreaction?   Sure, most likely, but perhaps there is more to this than
>>> meets the eye.  Maybe the kid was spouting islamic stuff.
>>>
>>> Remember columbine, people.   Think of all the people who blame the
>>> teachers there for not doing anything.
>>>
>>> How about more support for our educators, here, they are caught in a
>>> very very hard spot - between over reacting and under reacting.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Sep 17, 2015 at 8:53 AM, Bob Cook 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I think that the value system of the so called scientists and
 journalists that were involved in the P-F discrediting episode is
 inconsistent with what Jed implies they possessed--in other words scientist
 and journalist values.

 It seems to me they had values of capitalists and money grubbers and
 little, if any, scientist and journalist values.  Their values were to
 cover up nature's real face and spread false ideas.  They were not at
 fault.  They were simply acting in their best interests and according to
 their values. Lies and propaganda were appropriate actions based on their
 values.  And the acceptance of such values has not decreased in the
 corporate world and independent scientific community, but it has increased
 with time IMHO.

 They were vassals of the "science kings" and did not want to kill the
 goose that gave them their golden eggs.

 I think this undesirable value system is a political issue that should
 be addressed--the sooner the better for civilization.  Gay marriage does
 not hold a candle to the importance of this issue in my mind, yet it seems
 to get more attention in the press and by politicians--what a travesty.
 Again it is consistent with journalist and political values unfortunately.

 Bob Cook

 - Original Message -
 *From:* Jed Rothwell 
 *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com
 *Sent:* Thursday, September 17, 2015 6:58 AM
 *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:The Ahmed Mohamed case and distrust of experts

 Alain Sepeda  wrote:


> The problem of cold fusion was incompetence of the particle and plasma
> physicist in 

Re: [Vo]:The Ahmed Mohamed case and distrust of experts

[Lawrence de Bivort]

Good thing Sailer isn't hallucinating or mind-reading here!

Hmm. His dad ran for Sudanese president. How suspicious!

Hmmm. Kid builds a clock and this means he is…demonizing the West!  


On Sep 18, 2015, at 12:31 PM, James Bowery  wrote:

> Keep providing payoffs in terms of moral authority and social status for this 
> kind of behavior and you are going to keep getting more of it:
> 
> 
> Steve Sailer: I’m sure you’ve heard about the Sudanese Muslim immigrant kid 
> in Texas who was arrested for bringing his home made electronic clock to 
> school where Islamophobes worried that it was a time bomb beeping in his 
> backpack. A reader points out that the kid’s dad is a publicity hound who 
> routinely returns to Sudan to run for President and engages in other PR stunts
> 
> S Sailer: If Ahmed were so smart, he’d know the difference between creating a 
> circuit and stripping the guts from a manufactured clock. His dad helped him 
> “make” this, and dad helped to make this “project” look as questionable as 
> possible, within the realm of plausible deniability. Whatever agenda he’s 
> advancing, it just further demonizes western society, and reminds us all to 
> be guilty for how racist we all are.
> 
> 
> 
> On Fri, Sep 18, 2015 at 1:20 PM, Jed Rothwell  wrote:
> Eric Walker  wrote:
>  
> Probably not.  But just in case, I will not bring something that looks 
> vaguely like a bomb to my place of work.
> 
> What if your place of work is a high school dedicated to teaching 
> engineering?!? I cannot think of a more appropriate thing to bring than an 
> electronics project. No one on the staff there would have thought this is a 
> bomb. It will not look "vaguely like a bomb" to them.
> 
> This is like saying you should not bring a hammer to a construction site.
> 
> - Jed
> 
> 

Re: [Vo]:The Ahmed Mohamed case and distrust of experts

[Jed Rothwell]

S. Sailer said:


> His dad helped him “make” this, and dad helped to make this “project” look
> as questionable as possible, within the realm of plausible deniability.
>

In this case "as questionable as possible" means "not even slightly
questionable to anyone who knows the first thing about electronics."

The notion that this would scare people who teach engineering for a living
is . . . ignorant. The only people who say this are science illiterates.

Also, I doubt that his dad had anything to do with it.

- Jed

[Vo]:Perhaps shooting myself in the foot

[Lennart Thornros]

I will take risk.
This video about how strong the word is. (The critic (well founded btw)
about my grammar should probably not make me bring this but I think it is
so good that I take chance. Have a cigar it is Friday.
Words mean a lot.
http://www.businessinsider.com/toastmasters-public-speaking-champion-mohammed-qahtani-2015-9
Best Regards ,
Lennart Thornros

www.StrategicLeadershipSac.com
lenn...@thornros.com
+1 916 436 1899
202 Granite Park Court, Lincoln CA 95648

“Productivity is never an accident. It is always the result of a commitment
to excellence, intelligent planning, and focused effort.” PJM

Re: [Vo]:The Ahmed Mohamed case and distrust of experts

[Jed Rothwell]

Eric Walker  wrote:


> Probably not.  But just in case, I will not bring something that looks
> vaguely like a bomb to my place of work.
>

What if your place of work is a high school dedicated to teaching
engineering?!? I cannot think of a more appropriate thing to bring than an
electronics project. No one on the staff there would have thought this is a
bomb. It will not look "vaguely like a bomb" to them.

This is like saying you should not bring a hammer to a construction site.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:The Ahmed Mohamed case and distrust of experts

[James Bowery]

Keep providing payoffs in terms of moral authority and social status for
this kind of behavior and you are going to keep getting more of it:


Steve Sailer: I’m sure you’ve heard about the Sudanese Muslim immigrant kid
in Texas who was arrested for bringing his home made electronic clock to
school where Islamophobes worried that it was a time bomb beeping in his
backpack. A reader points out that the kid’s dad is a publicity hound who
routinely returns to Sudan to run for President and engages in other PR
stunts

S Sailer: If Ahmed were so smart, he’d know the difference between creating
a circuit and stripping the guts from a manufactured clock. His dad helped
him “make” this, and dad helped to make this “project” look as questionable
as possible, within the realm of plausible deniability. Whatever agenda
he’s advancing, it just further demonizes western society, and reminds us
all to be guilty for how racist we all are.



On Fri, Sep 18, 2015 at 1:20 PM, Jed Rothwell  wrote:

> Eric Walker  wrote:
>
>
>> Probably not.  But just in case, I will not bring something that looks
>> vaguely like a bomb to my place of work.
>>
>
> What if your place of work is a high school dedicated to teaching
> engineering?!? I cannot think of a more appropriate thing to bring than an
> electronics project. No one on the staff there would have thought this is a
> bomb. It will not look "vaguely like a bomb" to them.
>
> This is like saying you should not bring a hammer to a construction site.
>
> - Jed
>
>

Re: [Vo]:The Ahmed Mohamed case and distrust of experts

[James Bowery]

What physical precautions did they take that indicates they thought it was
a bomb rather than a hoax device?



On Fri, Sep 18, 2015 at 8:16 PM, Jed Rothwell  wrote:

> James Bowery  wrote:
>
> The real reason the police were called in:
>>
>
> [ref. fake bomb statute]
>
> No, that is not the reason. The police were called in because the teacher
> and principal thought it was a real bomb. That is what they accused the kid
> of having.
>
> You need to read the published accounts carefully.
>
> Later they said it was because of that statute.
>
> That statute would not apply in any case, because he never said or
> insinuated it was a bomb, and anyone with knowledge of electronics who
> glances at it can see it is not a bomb.
>
> - Jed
>
>

Re: [Vo]:ADGEX Flashlight Creators Announce USB PowerBank

[mixent]

In reply to  Orionworks - Steven Vincent Johnson's message of Fri, 18 Sep 2015
09:51:21 -0500:
Hi,

True, note however that the box is larger than a cell phone. The energy density
of supercaps is not as great as that of Li batteries. The short charging time
comes at a cost.

>From Robin
>
> 
>
>> To me it looks they have just put a supercap in a box, with some
>electronics.
>
> 
>
>Yes, I would agree with you. In the demo you can see him plug the larger box
>(the box that is still a prototype) into a wall outlet. 30 seconds later the
>box appears to be fully charged whereas before it was completely discharged.
>
> 
>
>It's not so revolutionary as compared to a really nice incremental step of
>consumer convenience. That's not to be knocked. If the same kind of
>technology could be internalized within the a typical cell phone... charging
>it in 30 seconds... some might call that revolutionary. If true, I think the
>technology would sell like hot cakes. ;-)
Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html

[Vo]:IMPORTANT: first information about the historical Workshop of AIRBUS-LENR CITIES-ISCMNS

[Peter Gluck]

It is this, take please in account its preliminary character:

http://egooutpeters.blogspot.ro/2015/09/sep-18-2015-subjective-preview-of.html

But you can already see it is great in more respects and senses

Peter

-- 
Dr. Peter Gluck
Cluj, Romania
http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com

Re: [Vo]:The Ahmed Mohamed case and distrust of experts

[Eric Walker]

On Fri, Sep 18, 2015 at 9:13 AM, Lawrence de Bivort 
wrote:

Let's say that the kid's clock looked like a Hollywood bomb.
>

Yes, let's acknowledge this simple point, for our own credibility.  Let's
go further for the sake of completeness -- it's missing the explosives.

The kid gets accosted by school personnel. So far so good. But instead of
> handcuffing him, belittling him, calling the cops, and suspending him,
> intelligent school personnel would have looked at the clock seen that it
> was no bomb, warned the kid to not pretend it was a bomb, and sent him off
> to class. End of story.
>

Not the end of story.  Will the kid try to put explosives in it in a week
or two and come back to school?  Probably not.  Maybe.

You don't think islamophonia and racism didn't have a major role to play in
> what actually happened? Please.
>

I haven't argued there was no islamophobia.

Eric

RE: [Vo]:ADGEX Flashlight Creators Announce USB PowerBank

[Orionworks - Steven Vincent Johnson]

>From Robin

 

> To me it looks they have just put a supercap in a box, with some
electronics.

 

Yes, I would agree with you. In the demo you can see him plug the larger box
(the box that is still a prototype) into a wall outlet. 30 seconds later the
box appears to be fully charged whereas before it was completely discharged.

 

It's not so revolutionary as compared to a really nice incremental step of
consumer convenience. That's not to be knocked. If the same kind of
technology could be internalized within the a typical cell phone... charging
it in 30 seconds... some might call that revolutionary. If true, I think the
technology would sell like hot cakes. ;-)

 

Regards,

Steven Vincent Johnson

OrionWorks.com

zazzle.com/orionworks

RE: [Vo]:OFF TOPIC Japanese Members of Parliament are spry!

[Orionworks - Steven Vincent Johnson]

Jed sed:

> It is good to know that national leaders keep in shape. 
> I'll bet they could beat the crap out of the U.S. Senate.

Yesterday I watched a great documentary on the life and films of Stanley 
Kubrick.

The following classic comes to mind.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAeqVGP-GPM

Regards,
Steven Vincent Johnson
OrionWorks.com
zazzle.com/orionworks

RE: [Vo]:OFF TOPIC Japanese Members of Parliament are spry!

[Orionworks - Steven Vincent Johnson]

My apologies to Mr. Beene. I c he already beat me to the punchline. ;-)

 

Regards,

Steven Vincent Johnson

OrionWorks.com

zazzle.com/orionworks

 

Re: [Vo]:The Ahmed Mohamed case and distrust of experts

[Eric Walker]

On Fri, Sep 18, 2015 at 12:26 AM, Alain Sepeda 
wrote:

if someone with notion of electronics says that it looks like a bomb, I
> remove even his bachelor of science immediately.
>

You and Jed have both missed the point.  The skill that went into the thing
has nothing to do with what is of concern.  The intention is what is of
concern.  What does a young kid who brought such a thing to a school intend
to do?  Perhaps the intention was harmless, or perhaps it was other than
harmless.  Now the school administration has a situation to sort out. The
thing looked like a stage prop from Mission Impossible.  It does not look
like an accurate prop, or a finished prop.  But it definitely looks like
the makings of a Hollywood briefcase bomb.  Anyone who argues against this
only discredits himself, greatly.  The kid said it was just a clock.  He
may have discredited himself in the process, perhaps escalating things.

In an earlier time, this might have just been a harmless electronics
project.  In this time, there are additional considerations to be taken
into account.  None of this is to say that there was no racism in the
incident.  But ignore Mohamed's race and religion for a moment, and the
concerns remain.

Eric

Re: [Vo]:The Ahmed Mohamed case and distrust of experts

[Alain Sepeda]

since bomb squad was not called, since they kept the bomb witrh the
policemen, and did not evacuate the zone, it is clear they never believed
it was a bomb.

if they did not believed it was a bomb but arrested the kid, 
why?

now it is more clear, and at least you cannot accuse an technology
professor of being so incompetent, and policemen so stupid.

it is more classic.
it least they did not shoot him.

2015-09-18 15:48 GMT+02:00 Lennart Thornros :

> Hello Guys ,
> I like this discussion.
> The real solution is to make the definition; what is a fake bomb?
> How does it look?
> Goes it sound?
> Any significant thing that gives away that this is a bomb?
> Blaze says , "It is a felony to make a fake bomb".
> Anything can be considered looking as a bomb.
> Conclusion; we are all felons and will soon be in prison.
>
>
> Best Regards ,
> Lennart Thornros
>
> www.StrategicLeadershipSac.com
> lenn...@thornros.com
> +1 916 436 1899
> 202 Granite Park Court, Lincoln CA 95648
>
> “Productivity is never an accident. It is always the result of a
> commitment to excellence, intelligent planning, and focused effort.” PJM
>
> On Fri, Sep 18, 2015 at 6:24 AM, Eric Walker 
> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Sep 18, 2015 at 12:26 AM, Alain Sepeda 
>> wrote:
>>
>> if someone with notion of electronics says that it looks like a bomb, I
>>> remove even his bachelor of science immediately.
>>>
>>
>> You and Jed have both missed the point.  The skill that went into the
>> thing has nothing to do with what is of concern.  The intention is what is
>> of concern.  What does a young kid who brought such a thing to a school
>> intend to do?  Perhaps the intention was harmless, or perhaps it was other
>> than harmless.  Now the school administration has a situation to sort out.
>> The thing looked like a stage prop from Mission Impossible.  It does not
>> look like an accurate prop, or a finished prop.  But it definitely looks
>> like the makings of a Hollywood briefcase bomb.  Anyone who argues against
>> this only discredits himself, greatly.  The kid said it was just a clock.
>> He may have discredited himself in the process, perhaps escalating things.
>>
>> In an earlier time, this might have just been a harmless electronics
>> project.  In this time, there are additional considerations to be taken
>> into account.  None of this is to say that there was no racism in the
>> incident.  But ignore Mohamed's race and religion for a moment, and the
>> concerns remain.
>>
>> Eric
>>
>>
>

Re: [Vo]:The Ahmed Mohamed case and distrust of experts

[Jed Rothwell]

Eric Walker  wrote:


> You and Jed have both missed the point.  The skill that went into the
> thing has nothing to do with what is of concern.  The intention is what is
> of concern.  What does a young kid who brought such a thing to a school
> intend to do?
>

He clearly stated that he intended to show it to a teacher, and that is
what he did! How can there be any confusion?



>   Perhaps the intention was harmless, or perhaps it was other than
> harmless.  Now the school administration has a situation to sort out.
>

No, this is a technical school chock full of teachers who could glance at
the device and instantly "sort it out." Any one of them could have told the
administrator "that's a clock -- nothing to worry about." The administrator
should have had enough sense to call in one at the start.

It is like feeling ill when you are in a hospital surrounded by doctors. If
you think you may have a problem, there are hundreds of experts right there
who can help. So you need not call 911.

The kid clearly did not intend too fool anyone with a fake bomb, because
you cannot fool people who teach engineering for a living.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:The Ahmed Mohamed case and distrust of experts

[Lennart Thornros]

Hello Guys ,
I like this discussion.
The real solution is to make the definition; what is a fake bomb?
How does it look?
Goes it sound?
Any significant thing that gives away that this is a bomb?
Blaze says , "It is a felony to make a fake bomb".
Anything can be considered looking as a bomb.
Conclusion; we are all felons and will soon be in prison.


Best Regards ,
Lennart Thornros

www.StrategicLeadershipSac.com
lenn...@thornros.com
+1 916 436 1899
202 Granite Park Court, Lincoln CA 95648

“Productivity is never an accident. It is always the result of a commitment
to excellence, intelligent planning, and focused effort.” PJM

On Fri, Sep 18, 2015 at 6:24 AM, Eric Walker  wrote:

> On Fri, Sep 18, 2015 at 12:26 AM, Alain Sepeda 
> wrote:
>
> if someone with notion of electronics says that it looks like a bomb, I
>> remove even his bachelor of science immediately.
>>
>
> You and Jed have both missed the point.  The skill that went into the
> thing has nothing to do with what is of concern.  The intention is what is
> of concern.  What does a young kid who brought such a thing to a school
> intend to do?  Perhaps the intention was harmless, or perhaps it was other
> than harmless.  Now the school administration has a situation to sort out.
> The thing looked like a stage prop from Mission Impossible.  It does not
> look like an accurate prop, or a finished prop.  But it definitely looks
> like the makings of a Hollywood briefcase bomb.  Anyone who argues against
> this only discredits himself, greatly.  The kid said it was just a clock.
> He may have discredited himself in the process, perhaps escalating things.
>
> In an earlier time, this might have just been a harmless electronics
> project.  In this time, there are additional considerations to be taken
> into account.  None of this is to say that there was no racism in the
> incident.  But ignore Mohamed's race and religion for a moment, and the
> concerns remain.
>
> Eric
>
>

Re: [Vo]:The Ahmed Mohamed case and distrust of experts

[Lawrence de Bivort]

Let's say that the kid's clock looked like a Hollywood bomb. The kid gets 
accosted by school personnel. So far so good. But instead of handcuffing him, 
belittling him, calling the cops, and suspending him, intelligent school 
personnel would have looked at the clock seen that it was no bomb, warned the 
kid to not pretend it was a bomb, and sent him off to class. End of story. 

You don't think islamophonia and racism didn't have a major role to play in 
what actually happened? Please. 

Too many Americans have proven themselves easy to scare, and the bigots have 
stepped in and taken advantage of this. 

The result is a country in which irrationality and irrational behavior is 
excused by claiming fear. We see this in our foreign policy; we see it in the 
instance of a kid with his 
clock-that-to-some-think-looks-like-a-Hollywood-bomb-but-isn't. 

Cheers,
Larry


Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 18, 2015, at 7:24 AM, Eric Walker  wrote:
> 
>> On Fri, Sep 18, 2015 at 12:26 AM, Alain Sepeda  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> if someone with notion of electronics says that it looks like a bomb, I 
>> remove even his bachelor of science immediately.
> 
> You and Jed have both missed the point.  The skill that went into the thing 
> has nothing to do with what is of concern.  The intention is what is of 
> concern.  What does a young kid who brought such a thing to a school intend 
> to do?  Perhaps the intention was harmless, or perhaps it was other than 
> harmless.  Now the school administration has a situation to sort out. The 
> thing looked like a stage prop from Mission Impossible.  It does not look 
> like an accurate prop, or a finished prop.  But it definitely looks like the 
> makings of a Hollywood briefcase bomb.  Anyone who argues against this only 
> discredits himself, greatly.  The kid said it was just a clock.  He may have 
> discredited himself in the process, perhaps escalating things.
> 
> In an earlier time, this might have just been a harmless electronics project. 
>  In this time, there are additional considerations to be taken into account.  
> None of this is to say that there was no racism in the incident.  But ignore 
> Mohamed's race and religion for a moment, and the concerns remain.
> 
> Eric
> 

Re: [Vo]:The Ahmed Mohamed case and distrust of experts

[Alain Sepeda]

oops, not LCD, but LED... no LCD affordable at my time.

2015-09-18 9:26 GMT+02:00 Alain Sepeda :

> this devices does not look like a bomb.
> too complex.
> To be honest it does not even look like a clock, too complex.
> It look like a single board computer of 1980 generation with LCD display.
> This is probably what it is with modern controllers. The kid need some
> years in electronic engineering school and better tools, before he can make
> something small enough to look like a clock. He is at the level I was at
> his age.
>
> if someone with notion of electronics says that it looks like a bomb, I
> remove even his bachelor of science immediately.
>
> bomb is either much simpler, or you see specific devices to protect from
> disarming, like captors, fake wires.
> moreover you need a load.
>
> moreover someone who make a fakebomb, and say it is not a bomb have no
> intent deceive.
>
> it is simple incompetence, nothing else to say.
>
> this is in fact racist mixed with stupidity , incompetence, incapacity to
> recognise it's own stupidity and mistakes, and as we see often, initial
> stupidity is transmited in the group , kept by general incapaciity to
> recognised own errors, and supported by general racism.
>
> this is great, and memorable story.
> digging a little you will probably see it is an example of groupthink.
>
> probably there was many people able to see it was a clock, but some mind
> guards probably was too dominant and frightened the weaker.
>
>
> 2015-09-17 23:24 GMT+02:00 Blaze Spinnaker :
>
>> Any reasonably cautious person would say this thing looks like a hoax
>> bomb:
>> http://www.wired.com/2015/09/heres-bomb-clock-got-ahmed-mohamed-arrested/
>>
>>
>> Making something that LOOKS LIKE A BOMB is a felony.  It's akin to
>> shouting fire in a crowded theatre.  Again, I think the teachers over
>> reacted a little, but I think it fell within a not so completely unexpected
>> range of reasonable reactions.
>>
>> The only thing they screwed up on was letting the kid get photographed.
>> He's 14.  There's no reason this needed to go on the internet and
>> permanently harm him.
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 17, 2015 at 9:31 AM, Blaze Spinnaker <
>> blazespinna...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I will say one thing - the one thing I think everyone completely missed
>>> was that there should not have been a picture of the kid in handcuffs and
>>> it should have been handled much more discretely.The over reaction can
>>> be excused, but it should have been done very very quietly.   That can not
>>> be pardoned and I wish everyone would focus more on that so future
>>> educators wouldn't make the same mistake.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Sep 17, 2015 at 9:28 AM, Blaze Spinnaker <
>>> blazespinna...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
 lol.   I love the outrage!   Such drama.   However simple reality is no
 one, and I mean no one, knows the facts on the ground.   Was it an
 overreaction?   Sure, most likely, but perhaps there is more to this than
 meets the eye.  Maybe the kid was spouting islamic stuff.

 Remember columbine, people.   Think of all the people who blame the
 teachers there for not doing anything.

 How about more support for our educators, here, they are caught in a
 very very hard spot - between over reacting and under reacting.

 On Thu, Sep 17, 2015 at 8:53 AM, Bob Cook 
 wrote:

> I think that the value system of the so called scientists and
> journalists that were involved in the P-F discrediting episode is
> inconsistent with what Jed implies they possessed--in other words 
> scientist
> and journalist values.
>
> It seems to me they had values of capitalists and money grubbers and
> little, if any, scientist and journalist values.  Their values were to
> cover up nature's real face and spread false ideas.  They were not at
> fault.  They were simply acting in their best interests and according to
> their values. Lies and propaganda were appropriate actions based on their
> values.  And the acceptance of such values has not decreased in the
> corporate world and independent scientific community, but it has increased
> with time IMHO.
>
> They were vassals of the "science kings" and did not want to kill the
> goose that gave them their golden eggs.
>
> I think this undesirable value system is a political issue that should
> be addressed--the sooner the better for civilization.  Gay marriage does
> not hold a candle to the importance of this issue in my mind, yet it seems
> to get more attention in the press and by politicians--what a travesty.
> Again it is consistent with journalist and political values unfortunately.
>
> Bob Cook
>
> - Original Message -
> *From:* Jed Rothwell 
> *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com
> *Sent:* Thursday, September 

Re: [Vo]:The Ahmed Mohamed case and distrust of experts

[Eric Walker]

You seem intent on distorting my position.  You give the impression of
being naive.  I want school administrators asking those questions.  I don't
want them reacting the way the ones in Texas did.

Eric


On Fri, Sep 18, 2015 at 9:22 AM, Lawrence de Bivort 
wrote:

> So anyone's "concerns" are grounds enough for breaking the law? For
> unbridled bigotry?  Remember the mainstay of our legal system, "innocent
> until proven guilty?"  Or does your fear justify tearing up our
> Constitution?
>
> Gee. I have concerns about bigots and sadists masquerading as police
> officers. Most officers are decent, caring people. But some aren't.  And
> polygamists! Oh oh. And people who believe that vaccines cause autism.
> Yikes!
>
> I have concerns about a lot of things and people. But I don't call for
> their persecution because "maybe" my "concerns" might happen.
>
> A bomb, after all, is a bomb whether it looks like one or not.
>
> You, Eric, COULD hide your gun in your lunch pail, or in your brief case,
> or the frame of your bike, or truck of your car…. probably not. Maybe.
>
> Believe me -- I see the nuances. They are the same nuances that cloaked
> bigotry throughout the ages. Anti-Christian bigotry during the roman
> empire, anti-Celtish, anti-Irish, anti-immigrant, anti-native peoples,
> anti-black, anti-Jewish, anti-intellectual, anti-"gook," anti-women,
> anti-Arab, anti-Muslim….it is a long list, but at its heart these "nuances"
> are there to justify anti-"anyone not exactly like me."
>
> Lawry
>
>
>
> On Sep 18, 2015, at 9:28 AM, Eric Walker  wrote:
>
> On Fri, Sep 18, 2015 at 10:21 AM, Lawrence de Bivort 
> wrote:
>
> Well, hell, Eric.
>> Will YOU build a bomb next week and kill people?  Probably not. Maybe.
>>
>
> Probably not.  But just in case, I will not bring something that looks
> vaguely like a bomb to my place of work.  Nor will I bring something that
> looks vaguely like a gun to work.  Because I am aware it might raise
> concerns.
>
> People are unable to see the nuance in this case.  I'm done trying to make
> any further points.
>
> Eric
>
>
>

Re: [Vo]:The Ahmed Mohamed case and distrust of experts

[Lawrence de Bivort]

So anyone's "concerns" are grounds enough for breaking the law? For unbridled 
bigotry?  Remember the mainstay of our legal system, "innocent until proven 
guilty?"  Or does your fear justify tearing up our Constitution?

Gee. I have concerns about bigots and sadists masquerading as police officers. 
Most officers are decent, caring people. But some aren't.  And polygamists! Oh 
oh. And people who believe that vaccines cause autism. Yikes!

I have concerns about a lot of things and people. But I don't call for their 
persecution because "maybe" my "concerns" might happen.

A bomb, after all, is a bomb whether it looks like one or not.

You, Eric, COULD hide your gun in your lunch pail, or in your brief case, or 
the frame of your bike, or truck of your car…. probably not. Maybe.

Believe me -- I see the nuances. They are the same nuances that cloaked bigotry 
throughout the ages. Anti-Christian bigotry during the roman empire, 
anti-Celtish, anti-Irish, anti-immigrant, anti-native peoples, anti-black, 
anti-Jewish, anti-intellectual, anti-"gook," anti-women, anti-Arab, 
anti-Muslim….it is a long list, but at its heart these "nuances" are there to 
justify anti-"anyone not exactly like me."

Lawry



On Sep 18, 2015, at 9:28 AM, Eric Walker  wrote:

> On Fri, Sep 18, 2015 at 10:21 AM, Lawrence de Bivort  
> wrote:
> 
> Well, hell, Eric. 
> Will YOU build a bomb next week and kill people?  Probably not. Maybe. 
> 
> Probably not.  But just in case, I will not bring something that looks 
> vaguely like a bomb to my place of work.  Nor will I bring something that 
> looks vaguely like a gun to work.  Because I am aware it might raise concerns.
> 
> People are unable to see the nuance in this case.  I'm done trying to make 
> any further points.
> 
> Eric
> 

Re: [Vo]:The Ahmed Mohamed case and distrust of experts

[Lennart Thornros]

Larry,
I agree with you. There is a constant fear for doing what one think is
logical and instead give in to fear. Thus creating stupid, non-enforceable
laws, which needs exemptions and support laws to cover the loopholes and
then we have this situation when we do not allow LENR (as an example) as it
might effect someones position for tenure.
Columbine, yes we all agree we need no more of that. The reasons why it
happened is of course the target for a discussion with no finality (one
party has stopped giving info). My point is that to stop the next incident
new laws and different measures of generic nature will have no impact on
the outcome. It requires logical and straight forward thinking people with
personal courage to act to do that. Something, which is very hard to foster
or demand.

Best Regards ,
Lennart Thornros

www.StrategicLeadershipSac.com
lenn...@thornros.com
+1 916 436 1899
202 Granite Park Court, Lincoln CA 95648

“Productivity is never an accident. It is always the result of a commitment
to excellence, intelligent planning, and focused effort.” PJM

On Fri, Sep 18, 2015 at 9:08 AM, Lawrence de Bivort 
wrote:

> The biggest tragedy is that adults have failed to learn an important
> lesson--don't pander to your fears, don't embrace your bigotry, and don't
> throw our laws (against false arrest, and the right of adolescents to have
> their parents present when they are being interrogated) for example) and
> racial profiling.
>
> A bomb can be hidden in a thick school book. Let's ban school books in
> schools  They are probably not a bomb. Maybe, though!!!
>
>
> Blaming Ahmed for not learning lessons is blaming the victim for what was
> done to him.
>
>
>
> On Sep 18, 2015, at 9:24 AM, Eric Walker  wrote:
>
> On Fri, Sep 18, 2015 at 10:23 AM, Orionworks - Steven Vincent Johnson <
> orionwo...@charter.net> wrote:
>
> Ahmed gets his revenge in TIME Magazine:
>> http://time.com/4038305/ahmed-mohamed-clock-mit/?xid=newsletter-brief
>
>
> The biggest tragedy is that Ahmed appears to have failed to learn an
> important lesson in the incident -- don't bring something that looks
> vaguely like a bomb to school.
>
> Eric
>
>
>
>

Re: [Vo]:The Ahmed Mohamed case and distrust of experts

[Eric Walker]

On Fri, Sep 18, 2015 at 10:19 AM, Orionworks - Steven Vincent Johnson <
orionwo...@charter.net> wrote:
>
> I disagree. The concerns would have vanished, if not had been greatly
> reduced.
>
You guys appear to be forgetting the Columbine high school massacre.

Eric

RE: [Vo]:The Ahmed Mohamed case and distrust of experts

[Orionworks - Steven Vincent Johnson]

Ahmed gets his revenge in TIME Magazine:

 

http://time.com/4038305/ahmed-mohamed-clock-mit/?xid=newsletter-brief

 

Excerpt:

 

But during the press conference, Mohamed explained what he really wants to do: 
go to the Massachusetts Institute of Technology for collage. In the meantime, 
he added, "I'm thinking about transferring from McArthur to any different 
school."

 

Regards,

Steven Vincent Johnson

OrionWorks.com

zazzle.com/orionworks

Re: [Vo]:The Ahmed Mohamed case and distrust of experts

[Eric Walker]

On Fri, Sep 18, 2015 at 10:23 AM, Orionworks - Steven Vincent Johnson <
orionwo...@charter.net> wrote:

Ahmed gets his revenge in TIME Magazine:
> http://time.com/4038305/ahmed-mohamed-clock-mit/?xid=newsletter-brief


The biggest tragedy is that Ahmed appears to have failed to learn an
important lesson in the incident -- don't bring something that looks
vaguely like a bomb to school.

Eric

Re: [Vo]:The Ahmed Mohamed case and distrust of experts

[Lawrence de Bivort]

Well, hell, Eric. 
Will YOU build a bomb next week and kill people?  Probably not. Maybe. 

Maybe!  This is mere hysteria. Maybe. 
If we arrest people and harass them on the grounds of potential 'maybe's, then 
everyone should be locked up right away. 

Oh, wait. Maybe the police are maybe going to turn out to be bombers, too. And 
the jailers. So the police should lock up the police too. Because of "maybe."

Maybe your Cheerios have been poisoned. After all, it could be true. Let's 
arrest the clerk who rang your Cheerios up. Because, maybe, he is in on it. 

Of course, probably not. But maybe in your world, "maybe" is sufficient. 

Cheers,
Lawry

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 18, 2015, at 8:45 AM, Eric Walker  wrote:
> 
>> On Fri, Sep 18, 2015 at 9:13 AM, Lawrence de Bivort  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Let's say that the kid's clock looked like a Hollywood bomb.
> 
> Yes, let's acknowledge this simple point, for our own credibility.  Let's go 
> further for the sake of completeness -- it's missing the explosives.
> 
>> The kid gets accosted by school personnel. So far so good. But instead of 
>> handcuffing him, belittling him, calling the cops, and suspending him, 
>> intelligent school personnel would have looked at the clock seen that it was 
>> no bomb, warned the kid to not pretend it was a bomb, and sent him off to 
>> class. End of story.
> 
> Not the end of story.  Will the kid try to put explosives in it in a week or 
> two and come back to school?  Probably not.  Maybe.
> 
>> You don't think islamophonia and racism didn't have a major role to play in 
>> what actually happened? Please. 
> 
> I haven't argued there was no islamophobia.
> 
> Eric
> 

Re: [Vo]:The Ahmed Mohamed case and distrust of experts

[Daniel Rocha]

That's a case of xenophobia. Just that. Ahmed=arab=terrorist

Re: [Vo]:The Ahmed Mohamed case and distrust of experts

[Lawrence de Bivort]

The biggest tragedy is that adults have failed to learn an important 
lesson--don't pander to your fears, don't embrace your bigotry, and don't throw 
our laws (against false arrest, and the right of adolescents to have their 
parents present when they are being interrogated) for example) and racial 
profiling.

A bomb can be hidden in a thick school book. Let's ban school books in 
schools  They are probably not a bomb. Maybe, though!!!


Blaming Ahmed for not learning lessons is blaming the victim for what was done 
to him.


On Sep 18, 2015, at 9:24 AM, Eric Walker  wrote:

> On Fri, Sep 18, 2015 at 10:23 AM, Orionworks - Steven Vincent Johnson 
>  wrote:
> 
> Ahmed gets his revenge in TIME Magazine:
> http://time.com/4038305/ahmed-mohamed-clock-mit/?xid=newsletter-brief
> 
> The biggest tragedy is that Ahmed appears to have failed to learn an 
> important lesson in the incident -- don't bring something that looks vaguely 
> like a bomb to school.
> 
> Eric
>  

RE: [Vo]:The Ahmed Mohamed case and distrust of experts

[Orionworks - Steven Vincent Johnson]

>From Eric

 

>  But ignore Mohamed's race and religion for a moment, and the concerns remain.

 

I disagree. The concerns would have vanished, if not had been greatly reduced.

 

>From my POV it appears that the argument you are making, as well as the school 
>administrator's POV, were NOT ignoring Mohamed's race and religion. If Ahmed's 
>skin had been white and his name, Arnold, I seriously doubt this regrettable 
>fiasco would have even raised to a fleeting level of amused interest in the 
>high school cafeteria among fellow nerds.

 

Well... maybe not if a Caucasian looking Ahmed had turned around and said to 
the teacher, "All be back." ;-)

 

Regards,

Steven Vincent Johnson

OrionWorks.com

zazzle.com/orionworks

Re: [Vo]:The Ahmed Mohamed case and distrust of experts

[Eric Walker]

On Fri, Sep 18, 2015 at 10:21 AM, Lawrence de Bivort 
wrote:

Well, hell, Eric.
> Will YOU build a bomb next week and kill people?  Probably not. Maybe.
>

Probably not.  But just in case, I will not bring something that looks
vaguely like a bomb to my place of work.  Nor will I bring something that
looks vaguely like a gun to work.  Because I am aware it might raise
concerns.

People are unable to see the nuance in this case.  I'm done trying to make
any further points.

Eric

Re: [Vo]:The Ahmed Mohamed case and distrust of experts

[Lawrence de Bivort]

I don't forget it. I was directly affected by it.

Nor do I forget the atmosphere of bullying that the Columbine principal and 
coaches fostered in the school, and how the students-turned-killers were the 
standing target of that bullying.

When will people learn that when people are mistreated, some of them will fight 
back?


On Sep 18, 2015, at 9:22 AM, Eric Walker  wrote:

> 
> 
> On Fri, Sep 18, 2015 at 10:19 AM, Orionworks - Steven Vincent Johnson 
>  wrote: 
> 
> I disagree. The concerns would have vanished, if not had been greatly reduced.
> 
> You guys appear to be forgetting the Columbine high school massacre.
> 
> Eric
> 

Re: [Vo]:The Ahmed Mohamed case and distrust of experts

[Lawrence de Bivort]

" I don't want them reacting the way the ones in Texas did."

Thank you for this, Eric.

To react differently, people have to change their thinking, abandon their 
emotional and cognitive scarring from the past, eschew their bigotries, 
challenge their own assumptions and the assertions of "leaders" who prey on 
their fears.  Is it naive to suggest these requirements? 

Perhaps. But if this can't be done by those with authority, then truly our 
country is in perilous condition.

I retain the hope that as we have demonstrated in the past (e.g. 
JapaneseAmerican WWII internment, cigarette smoking, women suffrage, awareness 
of environmental damage caused by human activity) that we Americans, like 
peoples elsewhere, have the ability to discern even deeply embedded social and 
political and mental mistakes and correct our course.  

Is this naive? Perhaps.

But I would prefer to pursue a naive course of action -- no matter how small 
the odds of success are--than to accept passively a deep situation that clearly 
harms our society, endangers our kids future, and limits the manifestation of 
human qualities and aspirations.

Lawry




On Sep 18, 2015, at 10:45 AM, Eric Walker  wrote:

>  I don't want them reacting the way the ones in Texas did.