Re: [Vo]:GM and EPA dispute Volt's MPG rating

2008-10-08 Thread Robin van Spaandonk
In reply to  Jed Rothwell's message of Wed, 08 Oct 2008 10:05:44 -0400:
Hi,
[snip]
Robin van Spaandonk wrote:

Clearly the EPA needs a new category for PLUG-IN hybrids, as opposed 
to ordinary hybrids. (The volt is NOT an electric car. It IS a 
plug-in hybrid).

Yes. The thing is, there are gradations with hybrid technology. A car 
can be mostly an ICE (weak hybrid) or a balance (like the Prius) or 
it can be mainly an electric car (the Volt). 

The difference lies in the plug. If the car comes equipped with one, then it
is clearly designed to be driven for extended distances on electric power alone
(otherwise there is no point in supplying a recharging capability), and should
not be subject to the same rules that apply to ordinary hybrids or gas vehicles.
What the new rules should be, is an open question.

So it is hard to 
categorize. You have to have some sympathy for the EPA on this. It is 
difficult to measure efficiency when you have to take into account 
inputs from electric power which can be generated with fossil fuel, 
nuclear power, wind, etc. Conventional cars are simple. Their 
efficiency and carbon footprint does not change when you refuel them 
in the middle of the night.

The EPA has to adapt to the fact that it is not just going to be difficult to
measure efficiency, it's going to be absolutely impossible. This is because
every driver will travel different paths, and hence achieve different
efficiencies, and also because of the fuel mix you mention. At most, the EPA can
measure maximum and minimum efficiencies.
However the advertising used by the manufacturers, and the experiences of the
general public, can provide a hint as to what direction the new standards should
take. E.g. I would think that the maximum distance that can be traveled in pure
electric mode would be a useful criterion (which is already in use by the
manufacturers and public).


There have been proposals to allow hybrid cars to use the HOV lanes 
on highways. The trouble is that some weak hybrid cars are less 
efficient than ordinary cars, and an ordinary compact car that gets 
35 miles per gallon carrying two people  equals 75 mpg per passenger, 
which is better than a Prius. So this policy makes no sense. Perhaps 
they should open up HOV lanes to any car that gets 35 mpg or better, 
but it would be awfully difficult to identify them.

I don't think a change to the HOV rules is necessary. Soon, many if not most
vehicles will be plug-ins anyway, without any encouragement from government. The
public can't wait to get their hands on them.


Ultimately, what we need is a RFID identification and onboard 
computer on every car that automatically tallies and pays a toll for 
every mile driven on every road, depending on the gas mileage of the 
car, the time of day (with a premium charge at rush hour) and other 
factors. It would be intrusive, but it is the only fair way to pay 
for roads and reduce congestion. This will especially be needed if 
cold fusion is commercialized and gasoline taxes go away. See chapter 
17 of my book.
[snip]
There is a simpler and less intrusive solution. Put a tax on tyres iso gasoline.
Has the added advantage that careful drivers pay less tax. :)
Toll roads help too.
Of course, that wouldn't be enough, so the rest should be taken from
consolidated revenue. 
Perhaps needless to say, this shouldn't be done until gasoline has gone the way
of the Dodo.
Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk [EMAIL PROTECTED]



Re: [Vo]:GM and EPA dispute Volt's MPG rating

2008-10-07 Thread Terry Blanton
There are better descriptions here:

http://www.greencar.com/features/volt-facts/

Being a serial hybrid, the volt *could* be battery only for short ranges.

Terry

On Mon, Oct 6, 2008 at 5:03 PM, Robin van Spaandonk
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 In reply to  Stephen A. Lawrence's message of Mon, 06 Oct 2008 15:31:08 -0400:
 Hi,
 [snip]
Somehow it doesn't seem surprising that they're not very friendly toward
moves in the direction of fully electric cars.
 [snip]
 Bingo! :)

 Clearly the EPA needs a new category for PLUG-IN hybrids, as opposed to 
 ordinary
 hybrids. (The volt is NOT an electric car. It IS a plug-in hybrid).

 Regards,

 Robin van Spaandonk [EMAIL PROTECTED]





[Vo]:GM and EPA dispute Volt's MPG rating

2008-10-06 Thread Jed Rothwell

See:

http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-trucks/daily-news/080908-Chevy-Volt-100-mpg-or-48-mpg-/

The government will not declassify the upcoming Chevy Volt as a 48 
mpg car, which is ridiculous.


This is a complicated debate. As automobile engines become more 
complex and hybrids become more hybrid (more electric than gasoline 
cars), this issue will become more complicated. Even now the Prius 
MPG ratings are not useful, because actual performance varies 
tremendously depending on many factors such as where, how and how 
long you drive. In my experience, mileage varies from around 42 mpg 
to 50 and sometimes as high as 75 mpg.


- Jed



Re: [Vo]:GM and EPA dispute Volt's MPG rating

2008-10-06 Thread Jed Rothwell

I wrote, or rather dictated:

The government will not declassify the upcoming Chevy Volt as a 48 
mpg car, which is ridiculous.


Goodness. I don't how it came out like that! I meant to say:

The government wants to classify the upcoming Chevy Volt as a 40 mile 
per gallon car . . .


I have a stuffy nose. Slight touch of allergy. Must be affecting 
voice input. This time volt came out fault.


- Jed



Re: [Vo]:GM and EPA dispute Volt's MPG rating

2008-10-06 Thread Stephen A. Lawrence


Jed Rothwell wrote:
 See:
 
 http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-trucks/daily-news/080908-Chevy-Volt-100-mpg-or-48-mpg-/
 
 
 
 The government will not declassify the upcoming Chevy Volt as a 48
 mpg car, which is ridiculous.

In case anyone here hasn't noticed, the current government is kind of
dominated by a number of oil guys.

Somehow it doesn't seem surprising that they're not very friendly toward
moves in the direction of fully electric cars.



Re: [Vo]:GM and EPA dispute Volt's MPG rating

2008-10-06 Thread Robin van Spaandonk
In reply to  Stephen A. Lawrence's message of Mon, 06 Oct 2008 15:31:08 -0400:
Hi,
[snip]
Somehow it doesn't seem surprising that they're not very friendly toward
moves in the direction of fully electric cars.
[snip]
Bingo! :) 

Clearly the EPA needs a new category for PLUG-IN hybrids, as opposed to ordinary
hybrids. (The volt is NOT an electric car. It IS a plug-in hybrid).

Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk [EMAIL PROTECTED]