[Vo]:Papp demo and explosions, the end game, and John Rohner
Subject was: Re: [Vo]:Re: ProdEngAssemble.avi At 03:11 PM 8/17/2012, ChemE Stewart wrote: If you just sell plans for poppers, electronic circuit boards and licenses for the technology, then all of the liability rests with the OEM's they drag in. They probably give them a short demo in the shop before the thing malfunctions. I notice everytime I see a demo it is behind explosion proof glass. Oddity and UNCERTAINTY There was one explosion of a Papp engine, as such, AFAIK. That's the one where Feynman turned off the control electronics by pulling the plug. He expected the engine to run down, and he held on to the plug while Papp frantically tried to get it from him and plug it back in. The incident demonstrates that a Papp engine can be dangerous. Papp did a demonstration where an explosion was deliberately caused, that was filmed. That was not an engine, it was a cannon. Really, a big popper. I'm not aware of other explosions, but I've only begun to read in this area. Running Papp engines were witnessed and measurements were made with a dynamometer. This is not some marginal effect. It radically violates our expectations of what a noble gas mixture could do. I see only two possibilities: 1. Sophisticated fraud, begun by Papp and continued after his death by others. A sophisticated fraud can convince expert witnesses; this is why we demand independent verification; while collusion can exist between multiple parties, it is rare and the rarity increases with the number and variety of independent verifications. 2. An anomaly of vast implications, deserving of urgent investigation, with all deliberate speed. In science, ordinarily, one independent verification is enough to establish even an unusual result as valid. Cold fusion is a remarkable case where hundreds of independent verifications have been considered inadequate by some. My claim is, generally, that some are practicing cargo cult science. That goes back to what Jed recently mentioned: http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/RothwellJhownaturer.pdfhttp://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/RothwellJhownaturer.pdf -- this interchange between Noninsky and David Lindley, an editor at Nature, including commentary by Nathan Lewis, lead author of the Cal Tech negative replication report that Nature had published, is utterly shocking as an example of misbehavior by one whom we would expect to be a guardian of scientific neutrality and objectivity. Taken together with the Lindsey's Nature editorial, http://newenergytimes.com/v2/inthenews/1990/Nature-Embarassment.shtml, we can see how the Scientific Fiasco of the Century (Huizenga's language) was set up. Huizenga only knew the half of it. I'll write separately on this. Here, it is clear, the apparent impossibility of the Papp engine can be seen as a primary reason why the Papp Effect, I'm calling it, has not been deeply investigated. There is another reason, equally important. Papp kept his methods secret, fearing loss of them to other interests. Others, with more or less access to the secrets, have likewise kept them hidden. So, until now, independent verification was difficult or impossible. Because of his history and apparent imbalance, John Rohner cannot be easily trusted, but if his recent offer of demonstration kits is real, we will soon have some independent testimony regarding the Papp Effect. For the first time, investigation will be divorced from the demand for a full-out engine, and can be focused on the Effect itself. John Rohner is making an implied claim that the original Papp formula for the fuel, from the patent, works. The only secret, then, would be the nature of the stimulation, and that's what Rohner is offering to sell, in the form of the electronics that provide it, together with the custom coils and electrodes, with complete specifications for everything else. I presume that he knows that it will not be long before the stimulation will be known in exact detail, even if he hasn't provided that information, through examination of what his circuit board and the coils do. We have seen public demonstration of a popper, by Bob Rohner, possibly a rough equivalent of what John Rohner is offering. (And I must point out that it is entirely possible that the John Rohner kit doesn't work, but Bob Rohner's public demonstration does. Or one or both kits produce a pop, but not actual anomalous power, see below.) What continues to be amazing to me is that the data to show anomalous power would have been easily available, with some relatively simple measurements in the demonstration. The lifting of a weight by the popper, a defined distance, would show work done -- but the video of Bob's popper, where it moves a hydraulic piston a measured distance, is easier to analyze -- but there seems to have been no serious questioning of Bob Rohner about this issue. How much energy is pumped into the pistion with each cycle, and how much work comes
[Vo]:Papp demo and explosions, the end game, and John Rohner
Abd, Just a thought... Papp may have known that the containment coil needed to remain energized in order to collect and contain charged, collapsed matter particles at the coil's inside surface that was being produced at each cycle. Possibly when Dr. Feynman unplugged the power the collapsed matter began devouring the walls of the cylinder leading to vessel failure from embrittlement and excess heat. I will make an analogy which I am sure will gather consternation: do you remember in ghostbusters when they closed the breaker on the containment device housing the...gremlins? On Sunday, August 19, 2012, Abd ul-Rahman Lomax wrote: Subject was: Re: [Vo]:Re: ProdEngAssemble.avi At 03:11 PM 8/17/2012, ChemE Stewart wrote: If you just sell plans for poppers, electronic circuit boards and licenses for the technology, then all of the liability rests with the OEM's they drag in. They probably give them a short demo in the shop before the thing malfunctions. I notice everytime I see a demo it is behind explosion proof glass. Oddity and UNCERTAINTY There was one explosion of a Papp engine, as such, AFAIK. That's the one where Feynman turned off the control electronics by pulling the plug. He expected the engine to run down, and he held on to the plug while Papp frantically tried to get it from him and plug it back in. The incident demonstrates that a Papp engine can be dangerous. Papp did a demonstration where an explosion was deliberately caused, that was filmed. That was not an engine, it was a cannon. Really, a big popper. I'm not aware of other explosions, but I've only begun to read in this area. Running Papp engines were witnessed and measurements were made with a dynamometer. This is not some marginal effect. It radically violates our expectations of what a noble gas mixture could do. I see only two possibilities: 1. Sophisticated fraud, begun by Papp and continued after his death by others. A sophisticated fraud can convince expert witnesses; this is why we demand independent verification; while collusion can exist between multiple parties, it is rare and the rarity increases with the number and variety of independent verifications. 2. An anomaly of vast implications, deserving of urgent investigation, with all deliberate speed. In science, ordinarily, one independent verification is enough to establish even an unusual result as valid. Cold fusion is a remarkable case where hundreds of independent verifications have been considered inadequate by some. My claim is, generally, that some are practicing cargo cult science. That goes back to what Jed recently mentioned: http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/**RothwellJhownaturer.pdfhttp://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/RothwellJhownaturer.pdf http:/**/lenr-canr.org/acrobat/**RothwellJhownaturer.pdfhttp://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/RothwellJhownaturer.pdf-- this interchange between Noninsky and David Lindley, an editor at Nature, including commentary by Nathan Lewis, lead author of the Cal Tech negative replication report that Nature had published, is utterly shocking as an example of misbehavior by one whom we would expect to be a guardian of scientific neutrality and objectivity. Taken together with the Lindsey's Nature editorial, http://newenergytimes.com/v2/**inthenews/1990/Nature-** Embarassment.shtmlhttp://newenergytimes.com/v2/inthenews/1990/Nature-Embarassment.shtml, we can see how the Scientific Fiasco of the Century (Huizenga's language) was set up. Huizenga only knew the half of it. I'll write separately on this. Here, it is clear, the apparent impossibility of the Papp engine can be seen as a primary reason why the Papp Effect, I'm calling it, has not been deeply investigated. There is another reason, equally important. Papp kept his methods secret, fearing loss of them to other interests. Others, with more or less access to the secrets, have likewise kept them hidden. So, until now, independent verification was difficult or impossible. Because of his history and apparent imbalance, John Rohner cannot be easily trusted, but if his recent offer of demonstration kits is real, we will soon have some independent testimony regarding the Papp Effect. For the first time, investigation will be divorced from the demand for a full-out engine, and can be focused on the Effect itself. John Rohner is making an implied claim that the original Papp formula for the fuel, from the patent, works. The only secret, then, would be the nature of the stimulation, and that's what Rohner is offering to sell, in the form of the electronics that provide it, together with the custom coils and electrodes, with complete specifications for everything else. I presume that he knows that it will not be long before the stimulation will be known in exact detail, even if he hasn't provided that information, through examination of what his circuit board and the coils do. We have seen public demonstration of a popper, by Bob
Re: [Vo]:Papp demo and explosions, the end game, and John Rohner
On Sun, Aug 19, 2012 at 12:17 PM, ChemE Stewart cheme...@gmail.com wrote: Abd, I will make an analogy which I am sure will gather consternation: do you remember in ghostbusters when they closed the breaker on the containment device housing the...gremlins? Ectoplasmic entities and psycho-kinetic energy are held by laser containment. Sheesh! T
Re: [Vo]:Papp demo and explosions, the end game, and John Rohner
On Sun, Aug 19, 2012 at 1:13 PM, Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Aug 19, 2012 at 12:17 PM, ChemE Stewart cheme...@gmail.com wrote: Abd, I will make an analogy which I am sure will gather consternation: do you remember in ghostbusters when they closed the breaker on the containment device housing the...gremlins? Ectoplasmic entities and psycho-kinetic energy are held by laser containment. Sheesh! Didn't the FDA determine that crossing ectoplasmic streams is what causes cancer?
