[Vo]:Percentage of Physicist who reject LENR
Just a practical question . (serious, I need a number) is there any statistic about the ratio of physicist who think LENR is not real? is there a recent number about the number or peer-reviewed papers, positive or negative about LENR, eliminating the journal that are dedicated to LENr, free energies, and uncommon science (as mainstream says)... does some people also know that kind of numbers for other past great discovery, at inception, like : - planes - hygiena - continental drift/wegener - QM - fission - heliocentrism - immunization - 5-symmetric crystal I'm afraid there are few of those data, and that the few data on recent stories have been erased (like 5-symmetries)... it seems that today it is a problem to address, so at least I should have answers.
Re: [Vo]:Percentage of Physicist who reject LENR
zero percent of those who have actually run the experiments themselves? On Sun, May 19, 2013 at 7:34 AM, Alain Sepeda alain.sep...@gmail.comwrote: Just a practical question . (serious, I need a number) is there any statistic about the ratio of physicist who think LENR is not real? is there a recent number about the number or peer-reviewed papers, positive or negative about LENR, eliminating the journal that are dedicated to LENr, free energies, and uncommon science (as mainstream says)... does some people also know that kind of numbers for other past great discovery, at inception, like : - planes - hygiena - continental drift/wegener - QM - fission - heliocentrism - immunization - 5-symmetric crystal I'm afraid there are few of those data, and that the few data on recent stories have been erased (like 5-symmetries)... it seems that today it is a problem to address, so at least I should have answers.
Re: [Vo]:Percentage of Physicist who reject LENR
Wait, what about pylori? On Sun, May 19, 2013 at 8:18 AM, Peter Gluck peter.gl...@gmail.com wrote: It is about minorities % of physicists who believe in LENR; % of LENR- ists who believe in LENR+ (but wait a year!) I think the most relevant, relative recent case is that of Helicobacter pylori The case is well described, statistics cannot be made. All the cases are half history , three quarter anecdote. My poisoning hypothesis is analogous to it, but I will not receive the Nobel Prize. Peter On Sun, May 19, 2013 at 5:34 PM, Alain Sepeda alain.sep...@gmail.comwrote: Just a practical question . (serious, I need a number) is there any statistic about the ratio of physicist who think LENR is not real? is there a recent number about the number or peer-reviewed papers, positive or negative about LENR, eliminating the journal that are dedicated to LENr, free energies, and uncommon science (as mainstream says)... does some people also know that kind of numbers for other past great discovery, at inception, like : - planes - hygiena - continental drift/wegener - QM - fission - heliocentrism - immunization - 5-symmetric crystal I'm afraid there are few of those data, and that the few data on recent stories have been erased (like 5-symmetries)... it seems that today it is a problem to address, so at least I should have answers. -- Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
Re: [Vo]:Percentage of Physicist who reject LENR
See please http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barry_Marshall Barry Marshall and Robin Warren, two Australian physicians had great troubles with the colleagues. Peter On Sun, May 19, 2013 at 6:32 PM, Alexander Hollins alexander.holl...@gmail.com wrote: Wait, what about pylori? On Sun, May 19, 2013 at 8:18 AM, Peter Gluck peter.gl...@gmail.comwrote: It is about minorities % of physicists who believe in LENR; % of LENR- ists who believe in LENR+ (but wait a year!) I think the most relevant, relative recent case is that of Helicobacter pylori The case is well described, statistics cannot be made. All the cases are half history , three quarter anecdote. My poisoning hypothesis is analogous to it, but I will not receive the Nobel Prize. Peter On Sun, May 19, 2013 at 5:34 PM, Alain Sepeda alain.sep...@gmail.comwrote: Just a practical question . (serious, I need a number) is there any statistic about the ratio of physicist who think LENR is not real? is there a recent number about the number or peer-reviewed papers, positive or negative about LENR, eliminating the journal that are dedicated to LENr, free energies, and uncommon science (as mainstream says)... does some people also know that kind of numbers for other past great discovery, at inception, like : - planes - hygiena - continental drift/wegener - QM - fission - heliocentrism - immunization - 5-symmetric crystal I'm afraid there are few of those data, and that the few data on recent stories have been erased (like 5-symmetries)... it seems that today it is a problem to address, so at least I should have answers. -- Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com -- Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
Re: [Vo]:Percentage of Physicist who reject LENR
Alain Sepeda alain.sep...@gmail.com wrote: Just a practical question . (serious, I need a number) is there any statistic about the ratio of physicist who think LENR is not real? I do not think the question is meaningful. As Ed says, all discoveries start with only one person believing them (the discoverer). The only way to determine this would be with a public opinion poll. The only poll I know of was taken in Japan many years ago. It showed that roughly half of scientists and engineers believed there might be something to cold fusion. I have no idea what the numbers would be now. The 2004 DoE review panel was a kind of poll. In answer to Charge 2, 6 Yes, 10 No, 2 Don't know. However, as you see, the reasons given by the 10 who said No were ludicrous and would bring a failing grade in any high school science class. http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/DOEusdepartme.pdf If you ran a poll, you would have to ask qualifying questions to make it meaningful. Start by asking: Have you read 5 or more papers on cold fusion, including at least 3 written after 1989? Are you familiar with the work of Dr. M. McKubre? Anyone who answers No to these has no knowledge of the subject, and no right to any opinion, positive or negative. I would disqualify them. Based on the audience at LENR-CANR I would say that most scientists and engineers who have read several papers agree that the effect is real. I cannot put an exact number on that. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Percentage of Physicist who reject LENR
Most likely less than .1% 2013/5/19 Alain Sepeda alain.sep...@gmail.com Just a practical question . (serious, I need a number) is there any statistic about the ratio of physicist who think LENR is not real? -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
Re: [Vo]:Percentage of Physicist who reject LENR
I have no doubt that the result will be evewhelmingly against, meaningless, and based on ignorance... the question is what could an opponent use to support his position? maybe is is a consequence of the democracy meme, but it seems that today we trust more majority than evidences... we also ask more theory than evidences. probably because we don't agree on evidences (one key point of thomas kuhn, that during paradigm change position are incomparable)... another point maybe I forgot is that LENR, being experimental, let no real doubt to someone well informed, no room for credible discussions, so the only escape for rejecting it is not reading papers. in some other domains it is easier to discuss endlessly on precises points of detail so you can ignore the key factual evidences. but even key evidences, are ignored, or claimed to be different from the public measure, yet claimed from those public measures... the idea is that the human work naturally in reverse mode, decide what they believe, then find how to find or ignore evidences. anyway some sunny day, it is really funny to see people have tea and chat beside a big elephant in the living room. on rainy days, it is making me desperate. there is an epidemy of elephant in living room. it start to be dangerous. seriously dangerous. 8( 2013/5/19 Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com Alain Sepeda alain.sep...@gmail.com wrote: Just a practical question . (serious, I need a number) is there any statistic about the ratio of physicist who think LENR is not real? I do not think the question is meaningful. As Ed says, all discoveries start with only one person believing them (the discoverer). The only way to determine this would be with a public opinion poll. The only poll I know of was taken in Japan many years ago. It showed that roughly half of scientists and engineers believed there might be something to cold fusion. I have no idea what the numbers would be now. The 2004 DoE review panel was a kind of poll. In answer to Charge 2, 6 Yes, 10 No, 2 Don't know. However, as you see, the reasons given by the 10 who said No were ludicrous and would bring a failing grade in any high school science class. http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/DOEusdepartme.pdf If you ran a poll, you would have to ask qualifying questions to make it meaningful. Start by asking: Have you read 5 or more papers on cold fusion, including at least 3 written after 1989? Are you familiar with the work of Dr. M. McKubre? Anyone who answers No to these has no knowledge of the subject, and no right to any opinion, positive or negative. I would disqualify them. Based on the audience at LENR-CANR I would say that most scientists and engineers who have read several papers agree that the effect is real. I cannot put an exact number on that. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Percentage of Physicist who reject LENR
On Sun, May 19, 2013 at 10:28 AM, Alain Sepeda alain.sep...@gmail.comwrote: I have no doubt that the result will be evewhelmingly against, meaningless, and based on ignorance... I'm not so sure about that. I think that we should give people some credit. By that I mean that it is my impression that professionals will generally readily acknowledge when they don't know anything about a subject, which I suspect is the case for most with regard to cold fusion. Following is an imaginary breakdown of how professionals in the STEM fields (science, technology, engineering and mathematics) view cold fusion. The breakdown is not intended to be an accurate one, just a plausible one that could potentially show what an accurate one might look like. - Of those who have not looked into the matter (perhaps they didn't know to), they assume from the press coverage back in 1989 that cold fusion has been debunked as a falsehood. Their opinion to this effect is based solely on what they heard at the time, and if asked, they would acknowledge this. Perhaps the large majority of people -- 90 percent or more. - Of those who have followed the more recent developments: - Some find the whole thing to be impossible or highly unlikely and the cold fusion work to be the output of a group of unfortunate, deluded semi-professionals. This would be about 10 percent of the remaining 10 percent -- 1 percent in all. - Some are not sure what to make of cold fusion and recognize that they don't have all of the information needed to make an informed judgment. Perhaps 70 percent of the remaining 10 percent -- 7 percent in all. - Some have seen enough to be persuaded that there is an a priori case to be made for investigating the matter further. Perhaps 15 percent of the remaining 10 percent -- 1.5 percent in all. - Some have seen enough to be convinced that there is definitely something anomalous underlying cold fusion, although they don't have a strong opinion about what that might be. Perhaps 5 percent of the remaining 10 percent -- 0.5 percent in all. An important point here is that the 90 percent in the first category cannot be counted as being persuaded against cold fusion -- they simply don't know anything and would readily acknowledge as much if the matter were brought to their attention. Eric
