Re: [Vo]:Physics Forums discussion of Rossi with comments by Brian Josephson
A well-known skeptic shown up in this discussion. See: http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=484427page=5 He is intellectually dishonest. He described experiment 1 as follows: Which figures are you questioning? A flow rate of 4.9 g/s water, and a temperature increase of 88 degreesC corresponds to 1.8 kW. Evidence for conversion of more than a percent or so to steam was not presented. The 1 kW average input power was quoted by Levi. He left out the heat of vaporization. He would probably claim that the water was not vaporized; i.e. it was very wet steam. The second experiment proved that was not the case. That was the whole point of the second experiment. Skeptics often use the technique of looking at each item of evidence as if the other did not exist. They dismiss the idea that there can be a totality of evidence. He also demands an independent test. That was an independent test. Levi had no connection to Rossi. As soon as the test was reported, Crude lumped in Prof. Levi with Rossi. If professors A, B and C conduct tests, he will say that they too are part of a conspiracy, and he will demand yet another independent test. It is tiresome nonsense. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Physics Forums discussion of Rossi with comments by Brian Josephson
From Jed: A well-known skeptic shown up in this discussion. See: http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=484427page=5 He is intellectually dishonest. He described experiment 1 as follows: ... He also demands an independent test. That was an independent test. Levi had no connection to Rossi. As soon as the test was reported, Crude lumped in Prof. Levi with Rossi. If professors A, B and C conduct tests, he will say that they too are part of a conspiracy, and he will demand yet another independent test. It would appear that Cude isn't posting here anymore, presumably after everyone grew tired of his inflexibility. Cude wasn't getting what he needed here, so he went elsewhere. Looks like he's now trying to work out his issues over at physicsforums.com. Since it's a skeptical web site he may experience more extended play over there than he did in vortex. OTOH, the moderator strikes me as a pretty sharp dude. I suspect he would prefer to keep his forum ship-shape. He may eventually see through Cude, especially if Cude keeps to his past behavior. Like Mr. Beaty, the moderator can kick anybody out of the forum any time he wants to - no explanation needed. To be honest, I really don't think Cold Fusion is what Cude is really railing against. Cold Fusion is just the most expedient vehicle that Cude chose in order to work through a personal list of intellectual proclivities. I'm sure it's an engaging experience for him. Least I sound too judgmental towards Mr. Cude - I wish to make it clear that I believe we ALL come into our lives with personal issues. Few escape unscathed. It's just that at certain times in life some of us express those proclivities more obnoxiously than at other times. It's a process. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Physics Forums discussion of Rossi with comments by Brian Josephson
I wrote: As soon as the test was reported, Crude . . . Cude. Sorry about that. A spell check error? Freudian slip? Wasn't voice input -- I can't blame that. On the last page he writes: Would you like to approach Rossi about getting one of his proprietary reactors to me for testing? I have a hunch he's not prepared to supply one. Does Cude work at Los Alamos? Is he willing to sign a non-disclosure agreement? I doubt that Rossi would supply one to a random person with no known qualifications. However, if things go according to plan, in a few years he will be able to buy one in Greece, and maybe in the U.S. (Rossi announced that another deal is underway in the U.S.) I don't see how anyone can complain about Rossi's plans. A test at a major university. More tests this year in cooperation with CERN. Commercial sales starting this year or next. The skeptics should be running out of things to complain about. What more they want? Okay, I admit that I have groused about the plan. I would prefer to see Rossi deliver 3 or 4 units to National Labs for testing under non-disclosure agreements. I told Rossi that. He politely said he doesn't want to do that. Well, it is his prerogative. I can't complain about that so much as whine quietly off in the corner. If he engaged in the kind of disappearing act that Patterson did after the death of Reding, or the kind of hide-and-seek operation that many over-unity inventors engage in, then I would have grounds to complain. But Rossi has paid a million euros to have a top-notch university and national lab test his machine and subject the catalyst to mass spectroscopy! People have lined up 200 million euros in capital to manufacture the thing soon. Compared to most other cold fusion researchers and all other over-unity inventors, this is wonderfully open, and cooperative, and business-like. It is by far the best news in the history of cold fusion. Probably it is, unless it turns out the machines are harder to reproduce than they thought, and the venture goes bust. That wouldn't be their fault. You can't blame people who spend 200 million euros trying to accomplish something like this. They are serious. The goal is realistic. The secrecy is necessary because of the intransigence of the Patent Office. It isn't his fault the Patent Office refuses to grant patents for cold fusion, although he should have submitted a better application. He now has a good patent attorney working on that. Really, there isn't much more we can ask for. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Physics Forums discussion of Rossi with comments by Brian Josephson
Jed sez: ... Really, there isn't much more we can ask for. Well, I was thinking about that. Maybe when Rossi starts marketing the E-Cat in the United States he should trademark and then rename his energy catalyzer Mr. Fusion (I bet Mr. Spielberg wouldn't mind sharing his trademark one bit!) It would subsequently receive a much better reception here since Mr. Fusion energy catalyzers would instantly be associated with an upbeat movie - ...where we're going we don't need roads. Great Scott! Seriously! ;-) Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Physics Forums discussion of Rossi with comments by Brian Josephson
on Wednesday, March 30, 2011 3:48 PM Jed Rothwell wrote [snip] He now has a good patent attorney working on that. [/snip] Any more info on the patent attorney?
Re: [Vo]:Physics Forums discussion of Rossi with comments by Brian Josephson
In reply to Jed Rothwell's message of Wed, 30 Mar 2011 15:47:31 -0400: Hi, [snip] But Rossi has paid a million euros to have a top-notch university and national lab test his machine and subject the catalyst to mass spectroscopy! People have lined up 200 million euros in capital to manufacture the thing soon. Since he is paying for it, I wouldn't count on the results being made public. IOW he will probably use the results to improve his control over the process, not to satisfy our curiosity. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/Project.html
Re: [Vo]:Physics Forums discussion of Rossi with comments by Brian Josephson
mix...@bigpond.com wrote: Since he is paying for it, I wouldn't count on the results being made public. I refer to the experiments underway at U. Bologna. Levi et al. said they would publish the results, probably in about a year. I assume he is counting on getting a patent by then. I do not mean internal research at Defkalion. I assume they will have to do a lot of that to solve engineering problems related to fabricating machines. Corporations do not publish that kind of research. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Physics Forums discussion of Rossi with comments by Brian Josephson
At 12:50 PM 3/30/2011, Jed Rothwell wrote: A well-known skeptic shown up in this discussion. See: http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=484427page=5http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=484427page=5 Joshua Cude is a joke. Physics Forums shuts down cold fusion threads, I've seen it again and again, until they can be moderated, and the moderation doesn't appear. It's just shutting it down. Discussion of Rossi is pretty useless at this time, my opinion. It's just going to bring up all the same old same old, and we, as those who accept the reality of cold fusion, have *nothing to show* for Rossi. It's a secret, after all, what is actually in that reactor, there are hints, and some of them might even be misdirection, i.e., design to confuse would-be imitators. Rossi has no obligation to accurately disclose what he puts in there and what he does with it. If you had billions of dollars of IP at stake, tell me, what would you do? My conclusion, based on what other researchers have written, is that Rossi is real, or it's a very sophisticated fraud, at something like the limits of what could be done fraudulently. But con artists can be just as inventive, if not more, as real inventors! Bottom line, I'm not going to be convinced that I know anything about the Rossi reactor until the wraps are off. Brian actually said it correctly. He could be wrong. But it's not terribly likely, I find the fraud explanation not terribly plausible at this point. But possible. People are saying that Rossi has a lot of money that's been raised. Did those doing the funding do due diligence? I'd hope so! But sometimes, real investors, even ones who are normally prudent -- and they don't often have much money if they aren't prudent -- make mistakes.
Re: [Vo]:Physics Forums discussion of Rossi with comments by Brian Josephson
Abd ul-Rahman Lomax a...@lomaxdesign.com wrote: Discussion of Rossi is pretty useless at this time, my opinion. It's just going to bring up all the same old same old, and we, as those who accept the reality of cold fusion, have *nothing to show* for Rossi. Says who? Why do you doubt the independent investigation conducted at U. Bologna? Why do you say that all previous light water results are invalid, or meaningless? Piantelli and Focardi, Patterson . . . the early results from Mills for that matter. Are you certain they are wrong? If they are right, that supports Rossi and Focardi. This claim did not come out of nowhere. My conclusion, based on what other researchers have written, is that Rossi is real, or it's a very sophisticated fraud, at something like the limits of what could be done fraudulently. It can only be a fraud if Levi and the others, including all of the observers in the first test, are going along with it. Do you seriously think they are all in cahoots with Rossi? If they have not gone along with it, then it is far beyond the limits of what can be done fraudulent. Also, why do you suppose Rossi is paying the university a million euros out of his own pocket to do tests that cannot fail to blow the lid off of a fraud? If he is committing fraud, why would he deliberately throw away a fortune to expose that fraud?!? It makes no sense. The notion that this might be fraud is disproved by recent developments and experimental results. There is not a shred of evidence for it. It is physically impossible in any case, unless you think Levi simply made up the details of the second test, and did not actually perform it. In that case, you have to ask why Levi suddenly decided to destroy his own career for no reason, with no benefit to himself. There is not slightest chance Defkalion will pay Rossi or Levi one euro if they are conspiring to fake the results. Sometimes it is dangerous to consider people's motivations and state of mind when evaluating experimental claims. People do strange things, after all. They deceive themselves. On rare occasions scientists do commit fraud. Yes, it can happen. However, I do not think there is not a single instance in the history of science, technology or commerce in which someone first committed fraud, and then immediately paid a million euros of his own money, all of his remaining wealth, to make certain that the fraud would be exposed in a few months. People are weird, but never THAT weird. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Physics Forums discussion of Rossi with comments by Brian Josephson
- Original Message From: Abd ul-Rahman Lomax a...@lomaxdesign.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com; vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Wed, March 30, 2011 9:15:53 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Physics Forums discussion of Rossi with comments by Brian Josephson At 12:50 PM 3/30/2011, Jed Rothwell wrote: A well-known skeptic shown up in this discussion. See: http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=484427page=5http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=484427page=5 Joshua Cude is a joke. Physics Forums shuts down cold fusion threads, I've seen it again and again, until they can be moderated, and the moderation doesn't appear. It's just shutting it down. It is now shut down. Harry
[Vo]:Physics Forums discussion of Rossi with comments by Brian Josephson
See: http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=484427
Re: [Vo]:Physics Forums discussion of Rossi with comments by Brian Josephson
On Tue, Mar 29, 2011 at 4:22 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: See: http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=484427 BJ: By the way, I'm now doing an experimental investigation -- which will happen first, pigs flying, or Nature publishing something relating to the Rossi reactor? ROFL! Thanks for the link, Jed. T
