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Daniele Passerini has reported that the customer interested in the MW reactor it is a well-known and largest industrial group http://freeenergytruth.blogspot.com/2011/10/ecat-customer-is-large-well-known.html Perhaps GE or Siemens? Speculations? - Brad p.s. Rossi said on his blog that the 1MW reactor would burn 10kg Ni and 18kg of H2 if ran for 180 days. Interesting! http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=510
[Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Rossi’s customer
Like usually, Daniele is misinformed with his rumors. The real Customer is Maddelena! –Jouni PS. please clean up the subject line, before sending the message. For messages with reply only Re: [Vo]:Rossi's customer, is enough. Having Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Rossi's customer is certainly overdoing it, because [Vo]-tag is only needed to express once for the mail-server. 2011/10/27 ecat builder ecatbuil...@gmail.com: Daniele Passerini has reported that the customer interested in the MW reactor it is a well-known and largest industrial group http://freeenergytruth.blogspot.com/2011/10/ecat-customer-is-large-well-known.html Perhaps GE or Siemens? Speculations? - Brad p.s. Rossi said on his blog that the 1MW reactor would burn 10kg Ni and 18kg of H2 if ran for 180 days. Interesting! http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=510
[Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Rossi’s customer
hmm there is something wrong with the tagging... –Jouni 2011/10/27 Jouni Valkonen jounivalko...@gmail.com: Like usually, Daniele is misinformed with his rumors. The real Customer is Maddelena! –Jouni PS. please clean up the subject line, before sending the message. For messages with reply only Re: [Vo]:Rossi's customer, is enough. Having Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Rossi's customer is certainly overdoing it, because [Vo]-tag is only needed to express once for the mail-server. 2011/10/27 ecat builder ecatbuil...@gmail.com: Daniele Passerini has reported that the customer interested in the MW reactor it is a well-known and largest industrial group http://freeenergytruth.blogspot.com/2011/10/ecat-customer-is-large-well-known.html Perhaps GE or Siemens? Speculations? - Brad p.s. Rossi said on his blog that the 1MW reactor would burn 10kg Ni and 18kg of H2 if ran for 180 days. Interesting! http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=510
[Vo]:RE: [Vo]:Rossi’s customer
Funny you should mention GE. When I heard that Passerini had said the customer is "a well-known large industrial group" I immediately thought of GE, (who wouldn't), although I suppose it could be any one of a few other big name players.Anyway, I sent an enquiry to three of GE's senior press people today asking if they have any affiliation with Rossi or a certain eCat LENR technology. We will see if I actually receive a reply, however I am encouraged by the fact that Kleiner Perkins managed a response to me a couple of weeks back.CraigFree Energy Truth 2011/10/27 ecat builder ecatbuil...@gmail.com: Daniele Passerini has reported that the customer interested in the MW reactor "it is a well-known and largest industrial group" http://freeenergytruth.blogspot.com/2011/10/ecat-customer-is-large-well-known.html Perhaps GE or Siemens? Speculations? - Brad p.s. Rossi said on his blog that the 1MW reactor would burn 10kg Ni and 18kg of H2 if ran for 180 days. Interesting! http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=510
[Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Rossi’s customer
Wouldn't US Navy have clear grounds to test nuclear devices on US soil? Why would they test the device in Italy? It seems that they didnt't went thru with US-soil-based test because nuclear-device testing in the US is forbidden for private entities. I ask myself if that's the case for the US Navy. 2011/10/25 Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com There has been a rumor floated that the US Navy is Rossi’s customer in this week’s upcoming E-Cat trial. This rumor is entirely believable. With the fragmentary background that Rossi has let slip during the last year regarding US government knowledge and participation in the development of the E-Cat, the US Navy would be the obvious US government point organization and primary customer for the E-Cat. First off, it would be extremely difficult for any one commercial company to bring the E-Cat to market. It would take many years or decades to safely commercialize the E-Cat and loads of up upfront money. The Greeks are out of their heads if they think that people would put a nuclear reactor in their basements or that the IAEA would allow it. Next, the megawatt size reactor format is the right power level for utilization of Ni power by the military. From way back, Rossi has targeted his design and development toward this large size reactor power format. It is perfectly reasonable that this design emphasis was inspired by the needs of the US Military. Furthermore, if the E-Cat showed any indications of working in those early government trials and demos which we suspect were conducted, the Navy would be aware of them, and made it their business to closely monitor the progress of Rossi’s RD. The US government monitors of Rossi’s development would have encouraged the emphasis of the megawatt size format. The US Navy will do a good job at protecting the design of the E-Cat from international competition both commercial and military since this technology would be critical and decisive to national defense. A private company would never be permitted to broadcast this critical military technology around the world nor would a company have the financial resourses to develop a home safe nuclear product. The Navy is not concerned about the product safety of the E-Cat reactor. Military personnel endure a high level of on-the-job risk and the E-Cat though dangerous in itself would tend to lower the overall risk load the war fighter would be exposed to on the battle field. The E-Cat would lower and eventually eliminate the need for fossil fuel in military operations and mitigate the risk of oil embargo from war operations. When all the threads of what we know about the history of E-Cat development are tied together in the framework of US Navy sponsorship and support, the whole ball of yarn makes sense. But the US military will have a hard time keeping Rossi’s mouth shut. It will be interesting and amusing to see how the various forces of secrecy in the government and the flapping lips of Rossi work themselves out.
[Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Rossi’s customer
Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: There has been a rumor floated that the US Navy is Rossi’s customer in this week’s upcoming E-Cat trial. This rumor is entirely believable. I have no idea whether this is true or not, but I note that Rossi is firmly opposed to selling his devices to any military organization anywhere in the world. He has said this several times. Even Defkalion says they will abide by this policy. Actually, this policy is illegal. It violates fair trade laws and probably other laws too. You cannot refuse to sell goods to a legitimate customer. As long as the customer is conducting a legal business, you have to sell to them on a first-come first-served basis at the same unit price as any other customer. You cannot refuse to sell because you dislike their ideology or their line of work. You also cannot refuse to sell to customers because of their race, religion or national origin. You cannot refuse to sell to a customer who happens to be competitors, and whom you suspect intends to reverse engineer the product. This part of the law was not enforced much until the 1970s. When they start enforcing it many high-tech companies groused and try to evade the law. They found all kinds of reasons to delay shipping to know competitors. They probably still do. Any businessman knows this. Rossi knows this because I told him several times. I expect he knew it before I told him. I expect the EU has similar fair trade laws so I do not think Defkalion will be able to enforce this policy. I think it makes them look stupid even mentioning it. Who are they kidding? I suppose they are trying to kid Rossi, or at least humoring him. In short, this policy is damn nonsense, but you will not pin down Rossi on that. He will say meep meep! Zm! - Jed
[Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Rossi’s customer
Right, between the military interst and NRC regulators, it will be 10-15 years before any of this tech is available for commercial use. - Original Message - From: Axil Axil To: vortex-l Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2011 12:26 PM Subject: [Vo]:Rossi’s customer There has been a rumor floated that the US Navy is Rossi’s customer in this week’s upcoming E-Cat trial. This rumor is entirely believable. With the fragmentary background that Rossi has let slip during the last year regarding US government knowledge and participation in the development of the E-Cat, the US Navy would be the obvious US government point organization and primary customer for the E-Cat. First off, it would be extremely difficult for any one commercial company to bring the E-Cat to market. It would take many years or decades to safely commercialize the E-Cat and loads of up upfront money. The Greeks are out of their heads if they think that people would put a nuclear reactor in their basements or that the IAEA would allow it. Next, the megawatt size reactor format is the right power level for utilization of Ni power by the military. From way back, Rossi has targeted his design and development toward this large size reactor power format. It is perfectly reasonable that this design emphasis was inspired by the needs of the US Military. Furthermore, if the E-Cat showed any indications of working in those early government trials and demos which we suspect were conducted, the Navy would be aware of them, and made it their business to closely monitor the progress of Rossi’s RD. The US government monitors of Rossi’s development would have encouraged the emphasis of the megawatt size format. The US Navy will do a good job at protecting the design of the E-Cat from international competition both commercial and military since this technology would be critical and decisive to national defense. A private company would never be permitted to broadcast this critical military technology around the world nor would a company have the financial resourses to develop a home safe nuclear product. The Navy is not concerned about the product safety of the E-Cat reactor. Military personnel endure a high level of on-the-job risk and the E-Cat though dangerous in itself would tend to lower the overall risk load the war fighter would be exposed to on the battle field. The E-Cat would lower and eventually eliminate the need for fossil fuel in military operations and mitigate the risk of oil embargo from war operations. When all the threads of what we know about the history of E-Cat development are tied together in the framework of US Navy sponsorship and support, the whole ball of yarn makes sense. But the US military will have a hard time keeping Rossi’s mouth shut. It will be interesting and amusing to see how the various forces of secrecy in the government and the flapping lips of Rossi work themselves out.
Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Rossi’s customer
Jay Caplan uniqueprodu...@comcast.net mailto:uniqueprodu...@comcast.net wrote: Right, between the military interst and NRC regulators, it will be 10-15 years before any of this tech is available for commercial use. Why do you say that military use of technology slows down civilian access to it? In my experience going back to the 1970s it is just the opposite. NASA and the military spurred progress in computers and other high-technology by spending huge sums of money on it. This brought it to civilian markets much sooner than it would have reached them otherwise. For example, the microscopic motion sensors used to deploy airbags in automobile collisions were first developed by the military and some fantastic cost. I believe they may even have been developed for use in Star Wars. Star Wars has been a $90 billion blackhole of money and waste, but it has produced several useful spinoffs. Military technology that has alternative useful civilian uses has never been embargoed by the military, except in the middle of WWI and WWII. Immediately after World War II radar, cavity magnetron microwave generators, computers and many other technologies were made fully public by the U.S. and the UK governments, which had developed them. A few things were kept secret, such as some details about how to make nuclear weapons, and the existence of Bombes used to break the German enigma machines. The British kept the Bombes secret for a long time because they assured other governments around the world that German enigma machines (and the more modern variants) were unbreakable. They wanted other governments to continue using the machines so that MI5 could read their mail, which they did. Surprisingly detailed information on the nuclear bomb was released in the Smyth report, Atomic Energy for Military Purposes, 1945. See: http://www.archive.org/details/atomicenergyform00smytrich - Jed
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I recognize that if the US government gets control of E-Cat development that will be bad for the cold fusion community because the government will lock down the technology consistent with other nuclear technologies. Jed will naturally fear this turn of events. But consider that Rossi has made a lot of money working for US government agencies in past endeavors and has made many friends and connections in US federal organizations. In point of fact, the founders of Ampenergo are Karl Norwood, Richard Noceti, Robert Gentile and Craig Cassarino, friends of Rossi. Two of them also founded the consulting firm LTI – Leonardo Technologies Inc. – which for 10 years has been working on contracts amounting to several millions of dollars for the U.S. Defense and Energy departments, and with a recent contract with DOE amounting to 95 million dollars. Robert Gentile was also Assistant Secretary of Energy for Fossil Energy at the Department of Energy during the early 1990’s. Rossi is near the bottom of his barrel and has even mortgaged his house to make this upcoming demo. When Rossi could soon be homeless without a sponsor with deep pockets, his altruistic principles of world beneficence might be reluctantly turned aside. 2011/10/25 Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: There has been a rumor floated that the US Navy is Rossi’s customer in this week’s upcoming E-Cat trial. This rumor is entirely believable. I have no idea whether this is true or not, but I note that Rossi is firmly opposed to selling his devices to any military organization anywhere in the world. He has said this several times. Even Defkalion says they will abide by this policy. Actually, this policy is illegal. It violates fair trade laws and probably other laws too. You cannot refuse to sell goods to a legitimate customer. As long as the customer is conducting a legal business, you have to sell to them on a first-come first-served basis at the same unit price as any other customer. You cannot refuse to sell because you dislike their ideology or their line of work. You also cannot refuse to sell to customers because of their race, religion or national origin. You cannot refuse to sell to a customer who happens to be competitors, and whom you suspect intends to reverse engineer the product. This part of the law was not enforced much until the 1970s. When they start enforcing it many high-tech companies groused and try to evade the law. They found all kinds of reasons to delay shipping to know competitors. They probably still do. Any businessman knows this. Rossi knows this because I told him several times. I expect he knew it before I told him. I expect the EU has similar fair trade laws so I do not think Defkalion will be able to enforce this policy. I think it makes them look stupid even mentioning it. Who are they kidding? I suppose they are trying to kid Rossi, or at least humoring him. In short, this policy is damn nonsense, but you will not pin down Rossi on that. He will say meep meep! Zm! - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Rossi’s customer
I expect the EU has similar fair trade laws so I do not think Defkalion will be able to enforce this policy. I think it makes them look stupid even mentioning it. Who are they kidding? I suppose they are trying to kid Rossi, or at least humoring him. I'm not sure that we do. I don't think that there's any requirement for anyone to necessarily sell anything to anyone at any given price. We do however have protections in law that things are fit for the purposes that they are sold for. Joe
[Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Rossi’s customer
Military might want an exclusive interest in a cheap small heat source for a number of strategic interests including ships, but, at any rate, the NRC and other country equivalents will hold this back for a decade+ of testing and proof of safety before allowing marketing. It's nuclear, remember. And that is just the govt pace, no one wants to sign off on safety until it is absolutely proven out -I'm talking millions of $ of testing. - Original Message - From: Jed Rothwell To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2011 1:34 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Rossi’s customer Jay Caplan uniqueprodu...@comcast.net wrote: Right, between the military interst and NRC regulators, it will be 10-15 years before any of this tech is available for commercial use. Why do you say that military use of technology slows down civilian access to it? In my experience going back to the 1970s it is just the opposite. NASA and the military spurred progress in computers and other high-technology by spending huge sums of money on it. This brought it to civilian markets much sooner than it would have reached them otherwise. For example, the microscopic motion sensors used to deploy airbags in automobile collisions were first developed by the military and some fantastic cost. I believe they may even have been developed for use in Star Wars. Star Wars has been a $90 billion blackhole of money and waste, but it has produced several useful spinoffs. Military technology that has alternative useful civilian uses has never been embargoed by the military, except in the middle of WWI and WWII. Immediately after World War II radar, cavity magnetron microwave generators, computers and many other technologies were made fully public by the U.S. and the UK governments, which had developed them. A few things were kept secret, such as some details about how to make nuclear weapons, and the existence of Bombes used to break the German enigma machines. The British kept the Bombes secret for a long time because they assured other governments around the world that German enigma machines (and the more modern variants) were unbreakable. They wanted other governments to continue using the machines so that MI5 could read their mail, which they did. Surprisingly detailed information on the nuclear bomb was released in the Smyth report, Atomic Energy for Military Purposes, 1945. See: http://www.archive.org/details/atomicenergyform00smytrich - Jed
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Jay Caplan uniqueprodu...@comcast.net wrote: ** Military might want an exclusive interest in a cheap small heat source for a number of strategic interests including ships . . They might want exclusive use, but they cannot get it. Too much information about this has already circulated. It is in the hands of people in Italy and Greece, which are outside the jurisdiction of the US military. once it becomes generally known that it is possible to make a Rossi reactor with nickel powder and two other elements, many organizations will frantically pursue this technology and figure out how he did it. When I say many organizations I mean every major industrial corporation and every national laboratory on Earth will devote hundreds of top experts to work on it 7 days a week. People who think the NRC might ban this, that it might be kept secret fail to grasp how important this is, and how much of an impact it will have -- how much it must have, by the nature of the discovery. This is the most important technological breakthrough in all of recorded history. The only thing comparable is the discovery of language, or fire, or the domestication of horses -- which occurred before recorded history. Probably, nothing as important will ever be discovered again in the future. Even antigravity or a reaction-less space drive would have less impact. (Human immortality might have as large an impact, but I hope that is impossible.) This is also probably the most lucrative breakthrough in history. Anyone with knowledge of military technology will see that it is by far the most important advance in weapons technology. It will make all weapon system obsolete practically overnight. Such things cannot be kept secret, and they cannot be stymied by the NRC. The NRC could no more stop this -- or even slow it down -- than the Surgeon General could enforce a 1-year ban on adults having sex in the U.S. The notion that you can stop corporations, banks and venture capitalists from developing something that will soon earn them a trillion dollars a year is preposterous. Such organizations have a great deal of influence on government policy, to say the least. The only reason we do not see hundreds of thousands of experts frantically trying to replicate now is because most people do not believe it exists. As far as I know, the US military has never try to keep secret any major technology with civilian applications. I do not think it would be possible for them to do that even if they wanted to. The Chinese military and other rivals would soon find out about it, and they would be building it too. As Arthur C. Clarke said, no secret is more fleeting than military technology. He knew about that since he worked on radar during WWII. Of course there are countless minor secrets and highly specialized technologies such as encryption and exploding tank armor that remain either secret or confidential. The details of how US aircraft carrier nuclear reactors work is kept confidential. But the fact that US aircraft carriers use fission reactors is not secret, and never has been. Fission reactors are widely used around the world. The U.S. Navy developed them first but this did not slow down civilian development. - Jed
