Re: [Vo]:The Politics of Science by Joseph Agassi

2014-12-22 Thread Alain Sepeda
Is there a serious belief that Science is separated from politics ?
History is incoherent with that claim, and current history too.

to be honest I observe that strangely corporate and business politics is
often more politically neutral (only relative) than academic politics which
is very polarized, maybe because there is less contact with reality than
business.

it is fascinating to see academic battle on ideology wars even in physics
(war between socialized big science vs libertarianism of science,
religiosity of theory vs materialism of experiments) while for corps the
main war is whether a law give them enough time to adapt or attack the
bottom line.
I see oil corp fund wind turbines, LENr research, green NGO, shale
lobbyist, ...
I wont call that ideology, that is just following the wind and trying to
gain time.

On the opposite, and part of it is good, I see academic battling for one
idea, despite evidences, until they die.

2014-12-22 4:43 GMT+01:00 H Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com:

 Philosopher Joseph Agassi's 1986 paper _The Politics of Science_.

 http://www.academia.edu/3705830/politics_of_science

 quotes:

 ...It is an empirical fact that when I report to colleagues,
 philosophers, scientists, university professors and administrators, and
 other intellectuals, that I wish to discuss the politics of science, they
 first ask me if I mean science policy. When I say, no, the politics within
 the commonwealth of learning is what I wish to discuss, the response is,
 there is no such thing. When I say, I have ample empirical evidence to the
 contrary, they say, there should be no such thing. When I retort that there
 should be no more war, they say, war is a part of political life,
 willy-nilly; but university politics and politics in learned societies, and
 other intrigues and power struggles do not in any way belong to science.
 Scientists, they say, may very well be politicians, yet as scientists they
 cannot do politics within science. There is no room, they say, for politics
 in science...
 ​​


 ​​
 
 ​...
 The simple-minded view does seem to be dogmatic, pig-headed and harmful.
 Yet I should not be indignant, not only because indignation does not become
 a philosopher, but also because it is a standard conservative defence of
 the status-quo and the top-dog’s way to tell the under-dog that there is no
 status-quo and no top-dog, that everyone who is very good has a road open
 to the very top. In other words, the theory that there is no politics of
 science is not only simple-minded, it is rooted in naivety and ignorance-in
 the same naivety and ignorance exhibited by any member of any tribe,
 society or club, who says the same. Nevertheless, for the top-dog to say to
 the under-dog that there is no top-dog and no under-dog but that everyone
 has his just share is plainly self-serving
 ​. ...​
 ​



 ​Harry​








Re: [Vo]:The Politics of Science by Joseph Agassi

2014-12-22 Thread Jed Rothwell
Academic politics is the most vicious and bitter form of politics, because
the stakes are so low.

- attributed to Woodrow Wilson, who was president of Princeton University
before he became president of the U.S.


There are disciplines similar to academic science such as engineering,
programming or mathematics. If you were to say there are no politics in
these institutions people would think you are crazy.

- Jed


[Vo]:The Politics of Science by Joseph Agassi

2014-12-21 Thread H Veeder
Philosopher Joseph Agassi's 1986 paper _The Politics of Science_.

http://www.academia.edu/3705830/politics_of_science

quotes:

...It is an empirical fact that when I report to colleagues, philosophers,
scientists, university professors and administrators, and other
intellectuals, that I wish to discuss the politics of science, they first
ask me if I mean science policy. When I say, no, the politics within the
commonwealth of learning is what I wish to discuss, the response is, there
is no such thing. When I say, I have ample empirical evidence to the
contrary, they say, there should be no such thing. When I retort that there
should be no more war, they say, war is a part of political life,
willy-nilly; but university politics and politics in learned societies, and
other intrigues and power struggles do not in any way belong to science.
Scientists, they say, may very well be politicians, yet as scientists they
cannot do politics within science. There is no room, they say, for politics
in science...
​​


​​

​...
The simple-minded view does seem to be dogmatic, pig-headed and harmful.
Yet I should not be indignant, not only because indignation does not become
a philosopher, but also because it is a standard conservative defence of
the status-quo and the top-dog’s way to tell the under-dog that there is no
status-quo and no top-dog, that everyone who is very good has a road open
to the very top. In other words, the theory that there is no politics of
science is not only simple-minded, it is rooted in naivety and ignorance-in
the same naivety and ignorance exhibited by any member of any tribe,
society or club, who says the same. Nevertheless, for the top-dog to say to
the under-dog that there is no top-dog and no under-dog but that everyone
has his just share is plainly self-serving
​. ...​
​



​Harry​