Re: [Vo]:Even the most reliable industrial meters can fail

[Jed Rothwell]

Lennart Thornros  wrote:


> I just ended a tax audit. No, no courtesy, no understanding just what I
> expected. I know I was unlucky zI did not get one of the southern gentlemen
> you have experienced.
>

It was a middle aged black southern woman at the IRS. But the others there
all seemed professional.



> But really my point is that the ideal situation when there is check and
> balance between different groups like you say government executives and
> politicians and voters-does not exists.
>

Oh, it definitely does. On more than one occasion I have called the offices
of elected officials with problems. Believe me, they are responsive! They
call the bureaucracy and the bureaucrats dispatch a work crew to fix the
problem. The last thing a local politician wants is some middle-aged guy in
a good neighborhood complaining to the Atlanta Journal about a sewer leak,
unsafe conditions near a primary school, or something like that. I don't
call them for trivial reasons with stupid complaints.

The government may ignore poor people, but it responds to calls from my zip
code.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:Even the most reliable industrial meters can fail

[Jed Rothwell]

Lennart Thornros  wrote:

I am glad there was an answer to your water problem, Jed.
> I hope you have learnt that having to deal with large government is not
> fun.
> Even if your water problem is OK now, you do not like the cost, if I hear
> you right.
> Because there is rule or law in every phase of our lives you can do
> nothing but shut up and pay the bill.
>

No, it isn't like that. The County was slow to address the problem, but
they have been courteous and helpful all along. They gave me a large rebate
for the repair I made in April, even though it was on my side of the water
meter. They did not have to do that, but the work was done on their
recommendation.

Today, the Supervisor finally showed up. He was very helpful. So
professional! He even wore a spiffy uniform. He did a complete check of the
meter, he went into the house and checked the plumbing, and asked to see
the plumber's invoice. He brought records from several years. In the end,
he made a convincing case that the present meter is working correctly, and
the previous one was faulty. He showed me two readings 60 days apart from
several years ago that were nearly identical. Clearly, the old meter was
stuck. It was undermeasuring the flow.

I have had much worse experiences dealing with the cable TV company, the
phone company, and small appliance repair companies.

It is true that big government organizations are sometimes brusk. They can
be unresponsive. It is because they have a monopoly. You have nowhere else
to go. On the other hand, they live in fear of politicians, and the
politicians live in fear of voters. Especially voters my age. Overall, my
experiences with big government agencies such as the Internal Revenue
Service (the tax people) has been positive. The IRS called me for a brief
audit once. They could not have been nicer or more professional.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:Even the most reliable industrial meters can fail

[Lennart Thornros]

Jed, I think you are just indoctrinated by the system - and I wish it was
as you believe. I hope you have the clout you think - but I certainly would
look upon the situation with very critical eyes.
I mentioned that the PgnE , and the PUC and the politicians will form
alliances with rules and laws and enforcement of all the laws that can be
used to stop deployment of LENR. You think they will have one of the nice
southern bureaucrats say;"Just go ahead - this is all good". ?
Maybe I have to reconsider relocation to the south:).


Best Regards ,
Lennart Thornros

www.StrategicLeadershipSac.com
lenn...@thornros.com
+1 916 436 1899
202 Granite Park Court, Lincoln CA 95648

“Productivity is never an accident. It is always the result of a commitment
to excellence, intelligent planning, and focused effort.” PJM

On Thu, Sep 3, 2015 at 11:50 AM, Jed Rothwell  wrote:

> Lennart Thornros  wrote:
>
>
>> I just ended a tax audit. No, no courtesy, no understanding just what I
>> expected. I know I was unlucky zI did not get one of the southern gentlemen
>> you have experienced.
>>
>
> It was a middle aged black southern woman at the IRS. But the others there
> all seemed professional.
>
>
>
>> But really my point is that the ideal situation when there is check and
>> balance between different groups like you say government executives and
>> politicians and voters-does not exists.
>>
>
> Oh, it definitely does. On more than one occasion I have called the
> offices of elected officials with problems. Believe me, they are
> responsive! They call the bureaucracy and the bureaucrats dispatch a work
> crew to fix the problem. The last thing a local politician wants is some
> middle-aged guy in a good neighborhood complaining to the Atlanta Journal
> about a sewer leak, unsafe conditions near a primary school, or something
> like that. I don't call them for trivial reasons with stupid complaints.
>
> The government may ignore poor people, but it responds to calls from my
> zip code.
>
> - Jed
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Even the most reliable industrial meters can fail

[Lennart Thornros]

Hello Jed,
I am glad you met nice people. I am not saying that there are no nice
people working for the government. I think that kind of conduct is spread
evenly.
I just ended a tax audit. No, no courtesy, no understanding just what I
expected. I know I was unlucky zI did not get one of the southern gentlemen
you have experienced.
But really my point is that the ideal situation when there is check and
balance between different groups like you say government executives and
politicians and voters-does not exists.
We need to reestablish that one way or the other. I think focusing on small
and independently working entities is both positive for the people doing
the job (btw I think coming generations will laugh at our subservient
behavior towards the authorities.) and the society. In addition it will be
very competitive with organizations that czn run circles around the big
organizations.
I do not know our age difference but I think you are wrong. Politicians
look for large groups well organized (in large organizations i.e. trade
unions) to secure reelection. You might belong and have large influence in
one of those large organizations and that would explain why you think they
are good. my vote is of no value - I live in California and here  . . . .

Best Regards ,
Lennart Thornros

www.StrategicLeadershipSac.com
lenn...@thornros.com
+1 916 436 1899
202 Granite Park Court, Lincoln CA 95648

“Productivity is never an accident. It is always the result of a commitment
to excellence, intelligent planning, and focused effort.” PJM

On Thu, Sep 3, 2015 at 11:15 AM, Jed Rothwell  wrote:

> Lennart Thornros  wrote:
>
> I am glad there was an answer to your water problem, Jed.
>> I hope you have learnt that having to deal with large government is not
>> fun.
>> Even if your water problem is OK now, you do not like the cost, if I hear
>> you right.
>> Because there is rule or law in every phase of our lives you can do
>> nothing but shut up and pay the bill.
>>
>
> No, it isn't like that. The County was slow to address the problem, but
> they have been courteous and helpful all along. They gave me a large rebate
> for the repair I made in April, even though it was on my side of the water
> meter. They did not have to do that, but the work was done on their
> recommendation.
>
> Today, the Supervisor finally showed up. He was very helpful. So
> professional! He even wore a spiffy uniform. He did a complete check of the
> meter, he went into the house and checked the plumbing, and asked to see
> the plumber's invoice. He brought records from several years. In the end,
> he made a convincing case that the present meter is working correctly, and
> the previous one was faulty. He showed me two readings 60 days apart from
> several years ago that were nearly identical. Clearly, the old meter was
> stuck. It was undermeasuring the flow.
>
> I have had much worse experiences dealing with the cable TV company, the
> phone company, and small appliance repair companies.
>
> It is true that big government organizations are sometimes brusk. They can
> be unresponsive. It is because they have a monopoly. You have nowhere else
> to go. On the other hand, they live in fear of politicians, and the
> politicians live in fear of voters. Especially voters my age. Overall, my
> experiences with big government agencies such as the Internal Revenue
> Service (the tax people) has been positive. The IRS called me for a brief
> audit once. They could not have been nicer or more professional.
>
> - Jed
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Even the most reliable industrial meters can fail

[Jed Rothwell]

Well, it turns out that flowmeter has a decimal point on it. So it wasn't
wrong after all. The decimal point was obscured by mud, but the County
advised me it has one, and my daughter's cell phone camera revealed it.

I am still getting invoices for $200 with huge amounts of water consumed.
No one seems to know why. The Supervisor may not come, but the saga
continues.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:Even the most reliable industrial meters can fail

[Lennart Thornros]

I am glad there was an answer to your water problem, Jed.
I hope you have learnt that having to deal with large government is not
fun.
Even if your water problem is OK now, you do not like the cost, if I hear
you right.
Because there is rule or law in every phase of our lives you can do nothing
but shut up and pay the bill. Just as the big government tells you.
I do not know the cost for drilling in Atlanta. However, even if it would
be cheaper to drill and have your own water it is not allowed. (No I have
not read local law but mostly the government has outlawed competition. They
call it fairness to all - sounds better.)
I have the same experience when it comes to electricity. PGnE our big
company together with the Public Utility Commission (PUC) in California
decides about the rates and the rates are climbing and if you use any
quantity (electrical stove, heating, cooling etc) you are punished with a
kWh price between 35 and 40 cent. Yes, I have solar. I could even have
lower kWh price by using a diesel generator and generate my own
electricity. That is not so hard to calculate. If nothing else you know
that PGnE buys the electricity for between 3 and 10 cent per kWh. As you
might understand it is very hard to deregulate the distribution of
electricity in California. My voice is no voice and PGnE and PUC and the
government are all in this for the sake of there own existence. Do you
think that same trojka is going to allow LENR in California. NO WAY.
I am bringing this to you just so you can understand where I am coming from
in regards to large organizations and the government sticking their nose in
every aspect of our lives. LENR will mean no good the way I have heard you
hoping for here in Vortex if we need to fight an old and totally corrupt
government.
Did you know that Congress has been on leave for taking care of the harvest
the last six weeks.  All the farmers have had a hard manual work. Do not
change what once a perk even if the reason is since long gone.

Best Regards ,
Lennart Thornros

www.StrategicLeadershipSac.com
lenn...@thornros.com
+1 916 436 1899
202 Granite Park Court, Lincoln CA 95648

“Productivity is never an accident. It is always the result of a commitment
to excellence, intelligent planning, and focused effort.” PJM

On Wed, Sep 2, 2015 at 12:49 PM, Jed Rothwell  wrote:

> Well, it turns out that flowmeter has a decimal point on it. So it wasn't
> wrong after all. The decimal point was obscured by mud, but the County
> advised me it has one, and my daughter's cell phone camera revealed it.
>
> I am still getting invoices for $200 with huge amounts of water consumed.
> No one seems to know why. The Supervisor may not come, but the saga
> continues.
>
> - Jed
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Even the most reliable industrial meters can fail

[mixent]

In reply to  Jed Rothwell's message of Wed, 2 Sep 2015 15:49:15 -0400:
Hi Jed,

If the meter is being read by a person then obviously the mud obscuring the
decimal point combined with the meter reader's unfamiliarity with the new meters
results in the meter reader making the obvious mistake.

If it's being read remotely, then apparently the software has a bug that is also
ignoring the decimal point. 

Have you checked with your neighbors to see if they are also getting exorbitant
bills? If so, you stand a better chance, together with them, of getting the
problem fixed.


>Well, it turns out that flowmeter has a decimal point on it. So it wasn't
>wrong after all. The decimal point was obscured by mud, but the County
>advised me it has one, and my daughter's cell phone camera revealed it.
>
>I am still getting invoices for $200 with huge amounts of water consumed.
>No one seems to know why. The Supervisor may not come, but the saga
>continues.
>
>- Jed
Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html

RE: [Vo]:Even the most reliable industrial meters can fail - cats - fenced-in Texas

[Orionworks - Steven Vincent Johnson]

From Terry

 

 NO!  Don't listen to Ol' Bab:

 

 http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/06/24/vet-kills-cat-arrow-photo-charges_n_7656706.html
  

 

Very distressing to read. I guess the famous Hippocratic oath Thou shalt do no 
harm doesn't necessarily apply in cases like this. What bothers me the most is 
the betrayal of the human/cat/dog relationship. As any dog or cat owner will 
attest, there is a unique kind of inter-species trust that is built up between 
the human and the life-time of their pet. To betray that trust would tear me 
apart. 

 

RIP, Tiger. When you come back, try another state besides Texas.

 

Regards,

Steven Vincent Johnson

OrionWorks.com

zazzle.com/orionworks

RE: [Vo]:Even the most reliable industrial meters can fail

[Orionworks - Steven Vincent Johnson]

From Terry,

 

 Would those invisible fences with the shock collar work on a cat?

 They're a lot less expensive and seem to work for dogs. 

 

We actually discussed the matter. My wife thinks the shock treatment would be 
disastrous to try on our outdoor cat. She may be right. If we are ultimately 
forced to enforce 24 hour house arrest on our cat I would prefer to install a 
cat recommended fence such as those approved by Jackson Galaxy, the creator of 
My Cat from Hell TV series seen on the Animal Planet.

 

Photo examples of cat proof fences:

 

http://store.purrfectfence.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=KIT-

 

https://catnipsfelineadvicepage.files.wordpress.com/2013/11/katzecure-double-rollars.jpg

https://catnipsfelineadvicepage.files.wordpress.com/2013/11/chicken-wire-cat-proof-fence.jpg

https://catnipsfelineadvicepage.files.wordpress.com/2013/11/winter-cat-proofing.jpg

 

Some designs are rather creative like the katzecure double rollers. Cats don't 
like climbing up fences where they are forced to climb upside down to get out. 
Unfortunately, most of these designs tend to make your property look like a 
mini-state penitentiary.

 

Regards,

Steven Vincent Johnson

OrionWorks.com

zazzle.com/orionworks

RE: [Vo]:Even the most reliable industrial meters can fail - cats - fenced-in Texas

[Orionworks - Steven Vincent Johnson]

From David,

 

[snip]

 

 ... AFAICT every subdivision provides, and insists on the maintenance of, 

 fences surrounding the back yards. About 6 feet tall, wood, cat-proof at 
 least when new.  

 Unless your cat likes to jump!

 

I’ll take your advice and not move to Texas. Incidentally jumping a 6 foot 
fences would not be a problem for Charm. I think she’s part gazelle. 
Incidentally, last year she had major surgery to remove the ball socket to her 
left hip when it got dislocated. Apparently, it’s not uncommon where the vet 
can’t get a cat hip ball socket joint to go back in place. Removing a ball 
socket sounds draconian but actually it turns out not to slow down most cats. I 
think Charm has achieved 95% recovery. Jump a six foot fence? No problemo.

 

I wonder if my disagreeable neighbor came from Texas. Sounds very isolating 
where you live. Do you feel fenced in?

 

Regards,

Steven Vincent Johnson

OrionWorks.com

zazzle.com/orionworks

Re: [Vo]:Even the most reliable industrial meters can fail - cats - fenced-in Texas

[David L. Babcock]

Steven, you could move to Texas (!! NO don't move to Texas !  Too hot). 
Here in San Antonio, AFAICT every subdivision provides, and insists on 
the maintenance of, fences surrounding the back yards. About 6 feet 
tall, wood, cat-proof at least when new.  Unless your cat likes to 
jump!  A Texas thing, perhaps.  From my back slab patio I can see the 
neighborhood a little. Wow. SO different from the North where we were. 
The fences even block my access to the public area behind, a grassy 
half-wild flood easement area.


Ol' Bab, who was an engineer, and could see his neighbors...


On 8/28/2015 9:16 PM, Orionworks - Steven Vincent Johnson wrote:


Jed,

I hope you can get the county to respond to your latest measurement. 
In regarding to city matters, I think you are likely to get a better 
ending than what our household is currently dealing with.


We have a new neighbor who is threatening to call the city police or 
animal control to get one of our two cats, an outdoor cat, Charm, 
incarcerated and us fined if he ever finds our cat on his 2nd floor 
balcony again in the future. Charm is a rescue we picked up at an 
Idaho rest stop about 3 years ago. She is very adventurous. We learned 
long ago we couldn't keep Charm incarcerated in our home all day. She 
needed outdoor time or else there was hell to pay. This neighbor moved 
into our neighborhood a year ago. Ironically, the previous home owner, 
he purchased the house from, who is now deceased, liked Charm's 
visitations to his 2nd floor balcony. IOW, our cat, Charm, felt 
accepted at that house. But now, a new cat-unfriendly neighbor has 
moved in and apparently he really hates cats. He believes all cats are 
destructive predators - bird murderers. We want to respect our new 
neighbor's desire that our cat no longer visit his house. But that is 
difficult to accomplish when the new neighbor does not want to accept 
from us articles like cat repellants (free of charge) that would give 
our cat incentive not to visit his property and 2nd floor balcony 
anymore. Apparently, our new neighbor would prefer to wait for our cat 
to once again visit his balcony so that he can call animal control and 
get Charm incarcerated and us fined.


[snip]

Regards,

Steven Vincent Johnson

OrionWorks.com

zazzle.com/orionworks






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Re: [Vo]:Even the most reliable industrial meters can fail

[Terry Blanton]

On Fri, Aug 28, 2015 at 5:09 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote:

Now I have to convince the County to send out someone to test it.



It's a simple test to shut off the street meter and check for blackflow.
Of course, if you have blackflow preventers inside your house, you'll have
to bypass them.

Many in both Fulton and Dekalb have had this problem with the new remote
measurement meters.

I saw how much trouble you went through to replace that feed line from your
photos.  Damned if I wouldn't sue the county for your losses once you prove
them wrong.

Re: [Vo]:Even the most reliable industrial meters can fail

[Terry Blanton]

On Fri, Aug 28, 2015 at 10:16 PM, Orionworks - Steven Vincent Johnson 
orionwo...@charter.net wrote:


 Some options are exceedingly expensive like putting up a cat proof
 perimeter around our property.


Would those invisible fences with the shock collar work on a cat?  They're
a lot less expensive and seem to work for dogs.

Re: [Vo]:Even the most reliable industrial meters can fail - cats - fenced-in Texas

[Terry Blanton]

On Sat, Aug 29, 2015 at 12:52 PM, David L. Babcock olb...@gmail.com wrote:

 Steven, you could move to Texas


NO!  Don't listen to Ol' Bab:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/06/24/vet-kills-cat-arrow-photo-charges_n_7656706.html

RE: [Vo]:Even the most reliable industrial meters can fail

[Orionworks - Steven Vincent Johnson]

Jed,

 

I hope you can get the county to respond to your latest measurement. In 
regarding to city matters, I think you are likely to get a better ending than 
what our household is currently dealing with.

 

We have a new neighbor who is threatening to call the city police or animal 
control to get one of our two cats, an outdoor cat, Charm, incarcerated and us 
fined if he ever finds our cat on his 2nd floor balcony again in the future. 
Charm is a rescue we picked up at an Idaho rest stop about 3 years ago. She is 
very adventurous. We learned long ago we couldn't keep Charm incarcerated in 
our home all day. She needed outdoor time or else there was hell to pay. This 
neighbor moved into our neighborhood a year ago. Ironically, the previous home 
owner, he purchased the house from, who is now deceased, liked Charm's 
visitations to his 2nd floor balcony. IOW, our cat, Charm, felt accepted at 
that house. But now, a new cat-unfriendly neighbor has moved in and apparently 
he really hates cats. He believes all cats are destructive predators - bird 
murderers. We want to respect our new neighbor's desire that our cat no longer 
visit his house. But that is difficult to accomplish when the new neighbor does 
not want to accept from us articles like cat repellants (free of charge) that 
would give our cat incentive not to visit his property and 2nd floor balcony 
anymore. Apparently, our new neighbor would prefer to wait for our cat to once 
again visit his balcony so that he can call animal control and get Charm 
incarcerated and us fined.

 

Complicating matters, there are city ordinances that tell us that all outdoor 
dogs and cats must be on leashes no longer than 6 feet. BTW, this leash law is 
routinely ignored as most dog owners have leashes that extend out to 10 - 15 
feet. I noticed the city ordinances cited the word dog 25 times and the word 
cat 6 times. It's more than at 4 to 1 ratio of dog issues versus cat issues. 
While well-meaning I think cats got incorporated into the city ordinance leash 
law as a form of collateral damage. In any case this neighbor has the law on 
his side. Technically he can get us fined if Charm shows up again. At present 
there are several neighbors with outdoor cats that have now become concerned 
about whether this person might go after their outdoor cat as well. 

 

I've asked my neighborhood alder as well as the president of our neighborhood 
association for insight on the matter. I asked if either one knew of an 
organization that specializes in conflict resolution to help diffuse 
neighborhood issues like this. While both were polite in their responses to me, 
but it's pretty clear that neither one wanted to have anything to do with our 
outdoor cat situation. Since our cat being outdoors unleashed is technically 
breaking city ordinances, we are breaking the law. In the eyes of the city 
ordinance we are the bad guys. 

 

From my point of view, our household may end up being abused by the 
enforcement of a city ordinance that nobody had really given a damn about 
until a passive-aggressive neighbor with ideological bent decided to press the 
issue by getting the city to do his bullying for him. What a deal for him.

 

At present, we are not sure how this is all going to go down. There are many 
options we are considering. Some options are exceedingly expensive like putting 
up a cat proof perimeter around our property. I detest the idea, and not just 
because it would be expensive. It would make our house and surrounding property 
look like a mini-state penitentiary. If we are forced to do this it would be as 
if this neighbor had successfully enacted a city ordinance primarily to get his 
own ideological needs met, an ordinance that nobody in the past had had given a 
damn about. All this just to imprison out cat and get us fined. It would be as 
if he had symbolically imprisoned us as well. After he deals with us what other 
cat household might be on the chopping block next? That's another reason I 
don't want to do this. There comes a point where you have to take a stand. The 
city ordinance against cats is ill advised. There are far better ways of 
dealing with such matters other than ignoring sincere assistance from willing 
neighbors in preference to calling animal control and extracting expensive 
fines.

 

Regards,

Steven Vincent Johnson

OrionWorks.com

zazzle.com/orionworks

 

From: Jed Rothwell [mailto:jedrothw...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Friday, August 28, 2015 4:09 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: [Vo]:Even the most reliable industrial meters can fail

 

I have often commented that industrial grade equipment is extremely reliable. 
You bet your life on it every time you fly in an airplane, for example. But 
even though meters and sensors are reliable, airplanes have redundant backup 
systems, for good reason.

No matter how good equipment may be, it can always fail. Particularly if that 
equipment is . . . a computer printer or a flowmeter!